Interview with Apalasi Mwenebato by Francois Bereaud

Francois Bereaud celebrated turning 50 a few years back by completing an MFA at San Diego State University. He was the bosque journal’s “Discovery Author Award” winner in 2017. He has been published online at Rejected Manuscripts, Sundial Magazine, The Write Launch, the Dillydoun Review, in print at Blood & Bourbon, and ABQ inPrint. He has written a novel and two short story collections which he dreams of publishing and seeing in the window of his beloved neighborhood bookstore. In his non-writing life, he is a husband, dad, full time community college math professor, retired youth soccer coach, mentor in the Congolese refugee community, and mediocre hockey player.

In 2016, my family and I connected with Sumitra, an upstart mentoring program for Congolese families recently arrived in San Diego. We were paired with the Mwenebato family: Apalasi, Selestine, and their four children. Over four years, Apalasi and I formed a very strong bond. In brief, this is his story. 

[Note: I am writing in interview form, but this is not a transcription. I’ve edited for brevity and clarity and also translated from French—while Apalasi’s English is nearing fluency, he felt more comfortable speaking in French. Phrases in italics are direct quotes.]

*Tell me your name and where you were born.

My name is Apalasi Mwenbato. I was born in the Congo in 1985.

*Describe your early childhood.

We lived in a village called Baraka which was part of a series of villages. I lived with my father, mother, and three brothers and five sisters. We had our own home but there were many extended family members very close to us. My father was a pastor in the Anglican Church and my mother stayed home. We did not have a lot of money, but we had food and I went to school. We had no telephone. Our tribe was Babembe.

*Describe the events which led you to flee the Congo.

When I was seven, a war broke out between our tribe and a tribe of people who had come from Rwanda. The fight was over land. The two sides were killing each other like animals. I saw things a boy should never see. I saw bodies and I saw killings. Men killed small children.

My father tried to talk to both sides. He tried to be a counselor and a peacemaker. Our family called him the enemy and threatened to kill him. He said he had to follow his calling. 

One night, there was a knock on the door. People often came to the house at all hours for my father so he opened the door. He was taken and we never saw him again. We do not know which side took him or how he died. A few hours later, before daybreak, my uncle came and said we had to leave. We walked through the bush for four days with little or no food and two of my brothers died on the journey.

We arrived somewhere on Lake Tanganyika and took a pirogue boat to Tanzania. I had spent a lot of time at the lake, but traveling at night was new. I was scared. 

I have never returned to the Congo.

*What did you find when you arrived in Tanzania?

We were taken to a sort of hospital. We ate what little food they gave us, food left over from the patients. We slept on the floor. We were demoralized and had no hope. After about a month, there were so many people from the Congo in Tanzania that the government decided to open a refugee camp. We heard that the land was full of vicious animals and evil spirits. Some people did not want to go there. My family had no choice. We got on a bus and rode for a day. The camp was called Nyarugusu.

*What was life like in the camp when you arrived?

The camp was in the forest. There was nothing, just dirt. People were given hoes, machetes, and tent material to make their house. My uncle cleared our piece of ground, cut trees for poles, and spread the tent as a roof. That was our house. 

I was in the camp for twenty years from 1996 to 2016. The camp was the size of two of the neighborhoods where I live now. At the beginning there was nothing to do. We received food every two weeks, just flour and beans. We were always hungry. There were public toilets, only one every kilometer and always a long line. Because of the diet, people had lots of digestive problems and couldn’t wait in line. Human excrement was everywhere. For a shower, sometimes we had to wait overnight. We lived like animals.

After a year, a delegation of our intellectual men in the camp spoke with United Nations representatives regarding the question of educating kids. They said this generation would be lost without education. Schools were started under big tents. Those men served as volunteer teachers.  

Very slowly, some things became less primitive. Some houses became brick abode, still with tent roofs. After some years, schools were built. Teachers were given “soap” as salary (a very small amount of money which could buy soap or other small items).  

When I was fourteen, I finished middle school but there was no high school. Again the intellectual men spoke about my generation needing to be educated. A high school started, still with volunteer teachers. Lots of kids older than me joined the school because they never had the opportunity for secondary school. In the second year they paid teachers. Someone got books from Congo. Parents paid for their children’s books with beans. Sometimes we had to choose between food and books. I went to high school from age 15 to 21. Every year it was a bit better and eventually we got a real building. I specialized in science and math. 

*What was your emotional state in the camp?

When we got to the camp we felt no hope. After one year, my uncle left and got his family and my grandparents. They brought me hope. My mother remarried two years after getting to camp. I stayed with my uncle and grandparents. But I was able to go back and forth to my mom whose house was just fifteen minutes away. If I needed food, I could always try her house. 

Thousands of people died in the camp from many different diseases including malaria. At least ten people a day. I was lucky to be healthy. I was able to explore every inch of the camp.

*As you got older, how did you feel in the camp? Did you see the possibility of leaving?

In the camp we were free prisoners. After the camps existed for more than ten years, the United Nations began to interview people who had been there so long. After the interviews, the UN personnel put people into a refugee “market.” Agents from different countries examined dossiers to see if they met certain criteria to enter the United States, Canada, or Europe.

When people started leaving in 2001 and 2002, communication was poor. There were no telephones—people left and we didn’t hear from them again. People in the camps thought those who left were being recruited for organ harvesting. There were stories that if you left they might take your eyes or one of your kidneys. My grandfather thought that way. He was interviewed but decided not to leave. I couldn’t leave either since he was the head of the family. When he died in 2013, I became the head of the family and could choose to try to leave.

*What did you do when you finished high school?

The camp was divided into villages. Eventually there were dirt roads. I was a good student so I went from student to teacher. I taught for ten years, 2006-2016. I taught math and science to high school students. Some were older than me.

*How did you meet your wife, Selestine?

I was a teacher, and Selestine studied in another school. Her friends were my students. Selestine would skip school and come visit them. “I like your professor,” she told her friends. I was a bit serious for such talk. She came to my house for some help and she asked me to marry her the first time I helped her in math! I said she was too young and that a teacher should not marry a student. Selestine was smart and she started helping my mother. My mother liked her and wanted me to like her.

A refugee can’t have a salary, it was said. But, I got something like $50/month from teaching. Now there were opportunities to buy meat, vegetables, and other items in the camp. My mother had a business selling drinks. Two years after I met Selestine, my mother gave me money for her bride price.

I put my savings with my mother’s money and presented it to Selestine’s family. We got married the same day. The marriage was traditional: the families give the okay, and we had a celebration. But there were no parties after 8 pm. The camp was not a place to live and laugh.

*Tell me about your life with Selestine in the camp and the birth of your kids.

Selestine and I lived in a brick house together. She got pregnant with Mishaki quickly. We were very happy and it gave us hope. He was born in 2010. I kept teaching, Selestine stayed at home. Philemon was born less than 2 years later in 2012. My grandfather died in 2013—that was a loss of hope. My grandfather helped many people. 

After my grandfather died, there was a reassessment of people in the camps and I went to meet with agents. I wanted help. I came to the camps as a kid, now I was a man with a family. Where was I to go?

They took my info. At that point I had a cell phone which was a big deal for our family. One day at school, I got a phone call and was told the family had an interview the following week. I had to explain why I was fearful of leaving the camp all those years. The agents agreed that it was a dangerous situation and my life was at risk. They sent my dossier to Kenya which was a clearinghouse for refugees. That’s when I became a refugee, a person unable to return to his country. We started the process to try and leave the camp.

In 2015, during the interview process, Selestine got pregnant with Charlotte and we had to wait for the birth for the process to go forward. There were four or five stages of paperwork for us to do. After the second stage, we knew we were going to the United States. We were happy. The US was our first choice because the US is a strong power and a country without war.

*Describe your journey to the US.

In November 2016, we finally left for the United States. The trip here was long and tiring but it went well. We had just the kids and a few small bags with some clothes. We had some bags sent ahead of us with more clothing and living goods like pots and pans. We flew from Dar es Salaam to Doha to LAX.

*What were your first impressions of the US?

We were surprised by everything at the airport. We had no idea where to go but we had identification as refugees which got us help. Someone from Jewish Family Services drove us to San Diego and we spent our first night in our apartment in City Heights. We were very happy with it. The neighbors were friendly and welcomed us in the morning.

We had a caseworker at Jewish Family Services and, on day two, she gave me money for a phone. I called my friend Amuri who had been here for two months. He lived in the same neighborhood and showed me around. The agency gave me money and Amuri took me to the store. Sometimes I brought stuff home on my head. People in the street found that funny and took pictures of me. There were about 20 Congolese families here before us, “our community.” Amuri’s family and mine became family together.

We came on a Wednesday night and on the first Sunday we went to church at St Luke’s where many Congolese families went. We got our first armchair from St. Luke’s.

In December, I started English classes at a community center near the apartment. At class, I was sorted from folks who had no formal education and were illiterate in their native language. I started in the third level because of my high level of education. I quickly moved through several levels of English as I was still a good student.

The first Christmas here was great—I was amazed to get an iPad from St Luke’s. The boys got computers. They started school in January. It was hard for them as their English was weak.

In the spring, I got a job as a custodian working five nights a week from 5 pm to 10 pm. At first, I wasn’t happy about it because I had previously been a teacher. But one factor which shocked and motivated me was seeing homeless people, which I’d never expected here. In Africa, we thought that everyone in the US was rich. Seeing those men right near my house made me feel scared that such a situation could befall me and my family. I was glad to work.

*You’ve been in the US for four and a half years now. Describe your life here. How many jobs do you have? What was it like having a child here?

Now I have three jobs. Two are custodial, one is gardening. On the one hand I like them: they support my family here and I can help my family in Africa from time to time. On the other hand, it’s not what I’d like to be doing. My English has improved; I can have a conversation. I’m in a better position to make a change. The pandemic slowed my job progress, but I had the good fortune to work through it.

I was happy to have a child here because she is the first American in my family.

*How do you feel about being in the US now?

For the first two years of my job, I had to take a bus to a trolley to another bus to get to work. The trip took two hours. Now, I have bought a car and the ride takes twelve minutes. I moved my family to a bigger apartment. My wife works. My children go to good schools—the boys have gotten scholarships at private religious schools.

I began to understand how life works here. I get hope from the connections I have made through church and friends. I have created an extended family here. I am proud of my life here.

*Do you feel guilty about leaving family behind?

It’s painful for me to have left family in the camp. I still have hope that they can come here, through the grace of God. I’m working with the International Rescue Committee to try and get my mother over. 

[During our conversation, Apalasi took a phone call in English from someone at the IRC concerning the next steps in the process for his mother.]

*There has been a lot of political talk about refugees. How do you feel you are treated in this country? Have you felt any discrimination here?

I have not experienced or heard bad things about me or my situation as a refugee. I’m grateful that it is calm here, without violence.

*What are your dreams and your dreams for your children?

My first dream is to help orphaned children in the camps. Many children were orphaned in the war. I could have been one of them. They need basic supplies like soap and notebooks. A second dream is the dream of buying a house here. I don’t want to always pay rent. A third dream would be to build a business in the Congo, maybe a shop or hotel.

For my children, I want them to be educated. I want them to reach university. I would like one of the boys to join the military because I would like our family to contribute to this country which has received us so well.

*In your life, you’ve seen the worst of humanity, but you’re not an angry or bitter person. What accounts for your positive outlook? 

I come from a Christian family on both sides. I am not a vengeful person. I believe in the word of God which says we should always be thankful.

*What else would you like to tell me?

I think you have done a very scientific interview. By that I mean, you’ve covered all aspects of me and my life. That’s good.