Don’t romanticise the global south. Its sympathy for Russia should change western liberals’ sentimental view of the developing world
Don’t romanticise the global south. Its sympathy for Russia should change western liberals’ sentimental view of the developing world
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Yes, I had seen The Buddha of Suburbia, in which white English couples fall for the fake mysticism of a bluffing “guru” in Bromley. I had read Paul Theroux on the power of the African continent to “bewitch the credulous”. It was not until later, though, as a working and dating adult, that I saw up close (and profited from) the western romanticisation of — now, what shall we call it?
“Third world” is rude. “Developing world” implies that all countries have the same teleological destiny. “Global south”, though it will have to do, is a geographic nonsense, encompassing as it does the northern hemisphere’s India and Middle East. In the end, the name of the place is less the issue here than the goodwill, the moral benefit of the doubt, that it tends to get from rich-world liberals.
Or, at least, used to get. No event this century has done as much as the Ukraine war to expose the difference in outlook between the west and — another phrase that doesn’t fit — the “rest”. Anglosphere, European and Japanese sanctions should not be mistaken for a truly global front against Vladimir Putin. In the latest Democracy Perception Index, an international survey, Russia retains a net positive reputation in Egypt, Vietnam, India and other countries that arouse fuzzy feelings in a certain kind of western breast. As for Morocco, another staple of the gap-year trail, Ukraine recalled its ambassador in March after failing to extract enough support from it. Pro-Russia protests have flared up in west and central Africa.
All of this is well within the prerogative of what are, after all, sovereign countries. Nor is it all that hard to account for. Some of it stems from their resentment of the west’s own record of conquest, from Robert Clive to the younger George Bush. The rest reflects cold national interest, and there is no disgrace there. Russia is a valuable patron.
But if these nations are free to reach judgments of their own, so is the west. It might respond to the present crisis by shedding its sentimental illusions about (yet a fifth term for it) the “majority world”.
I know this sentimentality as only a frequent beneficiary of it could. The harmless side of it is a kind of cultural dabbling: the half-understood eastern fads, the “challenging” holidays instead of Antibes again. But it can very quickly go from there to the soft racism of holding non-white nations to a lower moral standard.
I cannot be alone in knowing someone who boycotted the US during the Trump years while visiting semi-democracies and gay-criminalising kingdoms with a cloudless conscience. In the aftermath of empire, it made sense to attribute special virtue to recently subjugated peoples, even if VS Naipaul saw through it. To keep it up forever starts to look like its own kind of paternalism.
With luck, the war will be a clarifying moment. Decolonisation, apartheid, Live Aid, Drop the Debt: western liberals have been able to live a human lifetime without going against the global south on a large moral question. (The denialism about Aids in Africa around the turn of the millennium is the nearest thing to an exception.)
The past few months have ended that convenient run. To stand up for Ukraine now, one must be willing to knock the halo off a lot of countries. It means wading against half a century of postcolonial theory about where moral authority lies in the world. It is easy, and right, to implore the likes of France and Germany to do more for Ukraine. It is more transgressive to suggest that poorer nations are being cavalier in their attitude to the global order or selective in their opposition to imperialism.
But transgress we must. It is the truest egalitarianism. The ongoing project to find a collective name for poorer countries shows how sensitivities have got in the way of truth and plain-speaking. That this is a nuisance for the west hardly needs saying. The larger point is that the global south loses, too, by way of infantilisation. Nothing is as first-world as being treated as a grown-up.
This entire article feels very tone deaf.
It calls out poor countries for their "symbolic support" of Russia but completely and conveniently ignores western Europes financial support for Russia which acctually funds the invasion.
I doubt pro putin protests in Mali are killing Ukrainians. Nordstream on the other hand acctually does bankroll the Russian army.
The fucking audacity of peoples from countries who commited war crimes and human rights violations, IN LIVING MEMEORY, to act morally superior will not amaze me.
America, Europe, many of these countries that are so up in arms now, watched a genocide unfold in Rwanda, and did nothing.
These same countries are morally superior to African nations, who have structural issues and limited economic power and capabilities, and have every right to want no part of that war, to do what?
Fuck off. Like actually, fuck off.
Western Liberal democracies are the ones being coddled because most people cannot admit the staggering amount of wealth being generated by Africa that to this day flows directly to those countries.
France was receiving payments from Haiti, because invading and destroying their country was REALLY expensive for France.
Come on guys.
Let's be honest about moral superiority and how singularly ill that falls from the lips of most European and North American descendents and citizens.
As a Kenyan official put it: Every time China visits we get a hospital, every time Britain visits we get a lecture.
"Global South" does not have to do, and it's a deceptive term that includes countries like, oh, say, China. I detest the term. "Countries ambivalent to democracy" might be more honest. "Socialist countries" would better reflect the assumptions of those who use the term, but clearly China's getting a big break if that's the criterion.
Personally, I still prefer "developing country" and don't ascribe any particular teleological motive to it.
Some of these countries are actually very democratic, like Botswana and Mauritius. Most of them are not socialist.
It's really hard to describe these countries with one word, because there's so much variety. However, the one thing they have in common is that they are all less rich and developed. So unless you just want to call them "poor", developing is a good neutral term. And I agree it's not teleological, it's more like an aspiration.
Nah, developing country leaves way too much ambiguity and absolutely refers to a certain type of economic growth.
Also in practice I think it'd be better used aa "global north, global south, and China"
You think USA with gerrymandering,voter suppression and electorial college is more democratic then let's say even india?come on bro.
US/Western imperialism and colonialism dominating indigenous peoples and cultures around the world was bad.
Those of us living today in the 21st century should whole heartedly and loudly denounce authoritarianism, misogyny, and homophobia in Africa, Asia, and the Middle East.
Both of these things are true and are not mutually exclusive, for everyone arguing in the comments.
Meanwhile, in a conference room in Beijing: "Oh no Mr. Ambassador do not worry. The government has assured us that the ICT infrastructure project in the northern region of your country is still going to start this month. May this project mark prosperity for your people and a deepening of trade relationships between our two nations."
But if these nations are free to reach judgments of their own, so is the west. It might respond to the present crisis by shedding its sentimental illusions about (yet a fifth term for it) the “majority world”.
Nations do not reach judgments; individuals do. "The West" is something like a billion people in different countries with different histories speaking different languages, so ascribing judgments and sentiments to it is even more absurd. Suggesting that "the Global South" -- an even larger, even more diverse collection of people -- has specific sympathies is preposterous.
I get it that in conversations sometimes generalizations are a convenience. But this Olympic gold medal winning set of overgeneralizations renders this essay utterly valueless.
Exactly - as the author points out, the term "global south" is nonsense. We should look at which countries back Russia, genuinely understand why they're backing them, and if its for a reason we can have an impact on by helping them or changing the way we do things then we should consider doing so
I read this as the author saying non-western countries range from supporting Russia to ambivalence toward them. Not that all of them outright support Russia or something. Just that they don’t really care to actually do anything about the situation.
When this war started I saw a lot of people pointing out to the difference in treatment it was receiving from western media and goverments compared to other conflicts around the world. The usual response from people on this sub and r/europe was to say that it was obvious the west cared more about a war in Europe than one in the Middle East or Africa and that it was ludicrous to expect anything else, but now the same people are acting like non-western contries remaining neutral is some kind of moral faillure on their part.
There is a difference between neutrality and siding with Russia. Demonstrators are out in the streets with Putin posters, African leadership blaming the EU for the war. It's bizarre.
This is just a poor argument for a couple reasons. First most of the wars in the "Global South" are internal conflicts driven by ethnic and sectarian tensions which limits what the West can do and this is also compounded by the fact that most of the conflicts are between extremist groups fighting corrupt governments meaning that there really is nothing the west can do to help other than offer humanitarian aid. But the thing that is most shorted sighted about these countries supporting Russia is that Russia and Putin long for the days of great power politics, Putin wants to return to a 19th and early 20th century world of imperial ambitions, spheres of influence, vassal states and great game power plays. The irony is the countries that support Russia would end up like Ukraine in Russia dream world order.
Thai does matter more than other conflicts though. Prepare for those massive famines in Africa
Meh. These countries should've still condemn Russia or beg them to get back into their senses anyway considering this war gone terribly for Russia and have big global effects. Russia and Ukraine are big wheat exporters, for example.
Also you do realize some of these other countries have anti-USA sentiments that at times come as bizarre, right? I've heard people who think Zelenskyy is an USA puppet, and Russia had legit reason to attack due to NATO expansion...
Pretty much. The article ignores all the conflicts for which western countries remained neutral. I mean, the west actively supports governaments that commit human rights abuses for geopolitical gains - it even sends F35 to them. Pretty stupid, self-servicing piece.
Western news has focused frequently on significant issues in Africa and Asia, it's viewers that didn't notice. Boko Haram, Syrian Civil War, Tigray War, Rohingya genocide, droughts and humanitarian programs and UNICEF efforts, infrastructure developments, religious developments, statistics on womens education, many other worldwide events
I don't think it's empirically true that people who said A a few weeks ago, are now saying B, unless you're paying close attention to every individual's story arc of the whole thing, which I doubt anyone actually does.
No one used that argument. Or at least not me.
The key difference between this war and almost any other is that in this case, there's a side that is clearly, completely evil, and there's another side that's basically clearly and completely innocent and is just trying to defend itself.
In almost every war neither side isn't completely clean
Which was stupid. We have more attention in the media for the Ukraine conflict but the US and the wider West (namely Britain and France) often actively fight in these other conflicts.
Yeah, fuck this take.
I grew up in the global south. The Westtm has always been an unreliable, extremely condescending partner.
Considering how much r/neoliberal defend the invasion of Iraq and W.Bush, this sub does not have a "moral high ground" to begin with.
Why do these articles assume ‘the global south’ (1) has the romanticized view of the west that it does of itself and (2) that nobody here remembers the states that were the largest benefactors of colonialism that ended in the last 100 years?
Like honestly-if you’re a country that gained its independence somewhere in the 40s-60s (like many African countries did) why would you give a shit about a lecture on how to run your state from a British guy who ravaged your country for 100 years and spent the previous century before that in basically a constant state of war in Europe itself??
Cozying up to autocrats is clearly bad but if china, for example, comes and invests in your country while Western Europeans do nothing but continue to take from you and lecture you on how to run your country, was this not the natural conclusion for much of the ‘global south’?
Like honestly-if you’re a country that gained its independence somewhere in the 40s-60s (like many African countries did) why would you give a shit about a lecture on how to run your state from a British guy who ravaged your country for 100 years and spent the previous century before that in basically a constant state of war in Europe itself??
See: Seretse Khama
Does your argument presuppose the existence of a 300 year old British vampire king?
There is such a thing as objective truth. Not everything is subjective. Those supporting Russia's invasion don't have a different but equally valid viewpoint - they're just straight up wrong.
Western Europeans do nothing but continue to take from you
The thing is they actually need us allot for there economy. But still dont fear to support ouer enemies.
Eh, the Chinese obviously aren’t exactly investing in good will and the West isn’t either. The 3rd World is simply fucked if they do and fucked if they don’t, they just seem to be pissing off the more powerful side
Developing countries don’t have the luxury of moralizing their every foreign policy decision. Countries like the United States can intervene entirely on the basis of morals and still be fine even if that intervention was questionably planned and executed. Developing countries need to choose their foreign policy wisely, and that allows no wiggle room for siding with “the good guys” if those good guys wont help them at all.
Also in this case there are ridiculously tangible concerns for these countries, and the russians are apparently better placed to solve them. If the African Union butters up Moscow for food shipments to reduce the price of food, that isn't some betrayal. Its a very reasonable decision.
Who could have foreseen that people subjected to century-long brutal occupations by Western countries would wind up being opposed to the West?
Fair point but you could also frame it like this: "Why are a people subjected to century-long brutal occupations NOT vehemently opposing a barbaric, imperialist invasion of a sovereign state?"
Ukraine isn’t a Western country. It’s never occupied a foreign country in its history. Are they attributing “guilt by association” to Ukraine because they’re taking help from the only countries that would help (i.e “the evil West”)?
It's one thing to be opposed to the West. It's another thing to support the enemy of the West even as they repeatedly do war crimes, being insanely unreasonable, and dragging everyone to the mud.
Also these people tend to make their own insane conspiracy theories, like lumping Zelenskyy as USA puppet instead of a hero for Ukraine. I have sympathy for people that got fucked by the past imperialism, but it's completely bullshit to think that these third-world countries's bad takes are justified by default. I live in one, and many believe in insane, QAnon-esque insanity.
My country was occupied by Germany in WW2 and I don't feel any grudges against it. Because I'm not a fucking idiot and I won't blame sons for the sins of their fathers.
At what point are we allowed to draw the line? Should the people of Northern Europe still hold a grudge against people from the North Africa & the Middle-East over the Barbary slave trade? Should people from the Middle-East resent modern day Turkey for 500 years of Ottoman rule?
Who is allowed to have agency in this idea of yours?
news flash: societies and inviduals naturally care more about their neighbors than someone far away. A lot more people died in Yemen and Tigray than in Ukraine, yet those places never got the same outpouring of empathy. It's only natural that the "developing world" doesn't share this Ukraine-love, just as Europeans don't care all that much about wars in Africa. We really are a tribal species, for better or worse.
Not caring =/= actively cheering on the unambiguous aggressor
The difference is that other conflicts no side is morally clean. Ukraine is. Russia is undisputedly evil, and undisputedly the only evil in this case.
There's no non-bullshit argument to justify, defend, or even explain the invasion. It's just pure imperialism and evil.
I suspect this has to do with Russia sort of inheriting the anti-colonialist PR legacy of the USSR.
This sort of shit is what terminally online leftists say neolibs actually believe
It's pretty clear the poorer countries of the world are self interested, as they should be. They see the situation clearly and don't want to piss off Putin, instead they want to exploit the fact that Russia will have less buyers amongst the richer countries and they want to be in the market for cheap Russian goods. They are in no position to help Ukraine, and carrying an official "neutral" policy basically gives them the clear to continue to trade with Russia.
This is exactly the reason why they were called "3rd World" countries during the cold war. They didn't align with the US(1st world) or the USSR(2nd World) it doesn't have to do with their economies, although uniformly these countries are poorer.
These countries don't have much influence worldwide, as solely focused on their own domestic situations, therefore their foreign policy is geared in that way.
Citizens of these countries even politicians take on illiberal worldviews often times because education lags behind and many people are strict traditionalists. It is all very simple and understandable.
Moral philosophy, self criticism, and the space to make decisions that might negatively effect the domestic front improve as a country develops usually the development goes hand in hand with the strengthening of domestic institutions and increased literacy and education levels.
It's really pointless to say "look how morally inferior India is." When you look at the material wealth and opportunities for the average Indian and see they are multitudes less than what is available in "the west." Of course there are more issues, that's a given.
Is this the prologue to Manifest Destiny because it has that same disgusting vibe.
Doesn't even bring up Israel which to my knowledge still hasn't taken a side, which is simultaneously doing plenty right now to promote anti western sentiment.
I like slandering countries that aren't epick and freedom loving democracies
tru, we're bombarded by RT and other goverment media that paints regimes like Cuba, Russia and Venezuela as the victims of western imperialism and more BS
Poor old Germany gets excuses for funding the Russian military through their natural gas purchases, far moreso than any African country's purchase of fertilizers and wheat to avoid starvation.
Also what is Israel's stance? Why doesnt this sub keep the same energy?
We need to remember that the mythology of "Germans learned from the Holocaust" is fake
This sub shits on both German energy policy and Israel's issues with Palestine all the time, in virtually every single post about either nation.
After decade decades of sticking our fingers into the politics of central and south America, after centuries of colonialism and oppression in sub Saharan Africa. We must now pretend that the global south is lost? Fuck that. It's like a man beating his wife and then getting upset that she doesn't agree with him. Fuck off with this shit.
What kind of imperialist lamentation drivel is this. I never thought I would read such horse shit on this sub
How is this article being taken so seriously when it is so aggressively stupid and not just ahistorical, but ignorant of the recent human rights abuses and war crimes a bunch of western countries have committed?
Is this is a joke?
Did we forget the Iraq war? What about the West's relationship with Saudi Arabia?
Just say you think the lives, issues and struggles of people from the "global South" do not matter to you and you're outraged these nations do not care about this conflict as much as you do.
This is so shockingly racist that I do not know where to start.
That's the point isn't it? Poor countries aren't more moral or benevolent than rich countries. If the Global South became the Global North, they'd be doing the same thing, because national self-interest is only what matters.
I may not have read closely enough, but I didn't see it arriving at a definite point.
Humans are very tribal. You can’t just exploited Africa for centuries, take slaves, abandon them and then expect them to become friends, and then claim moral high horse when they don’t like us. Yemen and Ethiopia wars are utter humanitarian disaster, more died there than in Ukraine, where’s the outrage?
Also I remember how many people were saying we care about Ukraine is because they look like us? So isn’t it logical for global south to not support who don’t like them? Specially if that country is also friends with once’s you hate(west). For the record I’m not sharing my opinion, just making sense of their reasons to not support Ukraine
We might be better than Russia when comes to domestic policies but we don’t get to claim moral high ground because our foreign policies has killed just many innocent people.
This entire thread is full of concern trolling by Socialists and Nazis.
No, being oppressed doesn't give you a pass to be a Nazi. I call out support for Putin no matter who is guilty of it. That's not demanding fealty to the west, that's called being a principled supporter of Liberty.
Imagine being evil/ignorant enough to actually attempt to justify Putin's aggression on the basic "NaTo BaD" principle.
They're not doing that. I think its more "we don't care, but you didn't care about us".
It's what, 30 years since the enlightened, developed world sat and watched a genocide unfold on near live TV in Africa and did basically nothing. So why would those countries care now?
Have you seen the people the "Global South" elects? Or "elects"?
The Global North(?) elected trump, Salvini and Bolsonaro.
Brazil is not a part of the global north.
Can they just hammer out a deal where Ukraine stays neutral and has deals set up with Europe and Russia and that way everyone can go home and live there lives? Or in my little knowledge on the subject matter, am I missing an elephant sized piece?
Ok I’m gonna buy some fast fashion for it to get dumped in Ghana’s shores, thanks
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