Progressive Prosecutor Movement Tested by Rising Crime and Angry Voters
Imo there’s no need to be hard on crime and there’s no need to be soft on crime. You just have to be on crime
I’ll take being “smart” on crime. Kamala “SHEWASACOP” Harris said it herself.
I think we should be really hard in some crime, like child rape, and pretty soft on some crime, like rolling through an uncontested stop sign.
The context of this article is that San Francisco District Attorney Chesa Boudin is likely to be recalled on Tuesday. If the progressive prosecutor movement can’t succeed there, can it succeed anywhere?
In many ways this recall election is presaging how rising crime will play a large role in the 2022 midterms.
I’m anti-succ and even I wouldn’t call Boudin progressive. He’s a straight up Marxist.
If the progressive prosecutor movement can't succeed there, can it succeed anywhere?
The location being San Francisco cuts two ways: on one hand, a progressive prosecutor will have more support. On the other hand, a prosecutor will be under more pressure to do more reform faster. It's what primary voters want.
Faster changes mean more mistakes, and therefore more backlash.
If the progressive prosecutor movement can’t succeed there, can in succeed anywhere?
I just want to put this out there. The Asian communities in SF are furious at him for a reason.
https://sfstandard.com/public-health/san-francisco-asian-attack-one-year-later/
Same thing with the guy who got attacked while collecting cans.
No jail time. DA alleges the victim was fine with restorative justice.
I'm all for justice reform. but Lack of Justice is not justice reform.
Crime is so tricky. I took two courses on it in undergrad, one with Steven Levitt and the other with an economic advisor to Judge Posner. I came away knowing a lot of things definitely aren’t true, but very few that are.
It is sad but true that longer sentences reduce crime significantly, since most criminals are recidivists. That is likely why we had the incredible decline in crime starting in the late 80s.
It's wild though how much of an outlier the US is with regard to incarceration rates and crime, both are high for a very developed country.
I grew up in South America and everything is 'hardened' with tall walls/fences/spikes and locked up. Middle class and up all had security guards or even modest neighborhoods would have a gate/security station. Houses with bars over the windows seems like the norm in most of the world. In the US it feels like we all leave our cars on the street, and our doors unlocked and are flabbergasted that anything gets stolen.
Yup. Two guys (15-17 yrs old) broke into my wife’s car three weeks ago and did a lot of damage trying to hot-wire it. I followed them home and the cops pretty much told me since no one was hurt and they didn’t witness it that nothing can be done. Made a lot of phone calls before being told it was a waste of resources.
The same two guys robbed a neighbor at gunpoint two days ago with his kids right beside him, and they’re already back on the street lol.
And now people like you will just stop reporting crime they encounter, as they know nothing will be done. People will then say "look, the crime rate is down. We have objectively succeeded in reducing crime!"
I got jumped walking my dog at night, was pistol whipped and shot in the chest during the whole kerfuffle. Thankfully his shitty stolen pistol misfired and he couldn't get a second shot off and I was able to shoot him and he ran off. Cops arrested him in the ER and I was able to identify him immediately in a photo line up of about 75 different guys. He had 3 outstanding felony warrants, a stolen gun and a long felony rapsheet.
The DA and prosecutors office told me they dropped the charges because "It was dark outside and we don't think you could realistically ID him" despite the shooting and pistol whipping being point blank. Then he went to trial for his 3 outstanding felonies, pleaded guilty and got probation.
I'm not even salty about getting shot. I'm mostly upset because it took 6 months before I could get my dog to go outside at night
This has been the case for years. I lost count of the times my car was broken into, one time it even being stolen, and that response was the same one I got nearly a decade ago when it first happened. If it’s not an inherently violent crime and the activity doesn’t indicate premeditating, organized assailants, the cops won’t do shit. They collect your statement and file your paperwork in a big pile.
If this is a statement on the overall nature of our policing, fair. But if it’s some attempt to suggest that this is some sort of new issue, I’m gonna have to burst your bubble. Unless it’s murder, drug related, or some sort of specific crime trend that the local DA is politically motivated to deal with, they won’t do anything.
The only type of crime that’s been up is murder, and I struggle to believe that the police are refusing to investigate murders. It’s not so simple
Your situation sounds like a failing of the police though, the prosecutor wasn’t even involved?
No one thinks 10 year prison sentences for a 16 year old breaking into a car makes sense but we've rubber banded too far the other way, these people escalate to serious crimes because they get away with the lighter ones.
Police have been giving some variation of “nothing can be done” or “don’t bother filing a report” for at least 20 years in SF. Business as usual, but since the DA got elected on holding the police accountable, now their union just has a scapegoat.
There are other valid criticisms and I don’t know if I’d re-elect him, but recalling the DA because of a double-secret police work stoppage feels like BS
Does San Francisco need a progressive processor? I thought the places where more enlightened prosecutors were needed were in cities with bad or corrupt policing (Baltimore or Chicago) where the DA can act a check on police abuse.
I think Chicago has a progressive prosecutor, Kim Foxx, but shes not good.
She was the same one who argued for letting Jussie Smollet go and not get any punishment for filing a false police report.
Paradoxically, I’d say the DA here in Chicago is causing more police abuse because the cops are just refusing to do their jobs. They say their hands are tied because they can’t chase anyone, and even if they did, the DA wouldn’t try to lock up the perps so what’s the point?
I wonder how much of this will be linked to the pandemic in the future.
crime is rising everywhere, not just in places with "progressive" prosecutors
I don't think that progressive prosecutors are causing more crime. The issue seems to be that voters want more to be done about rising crime, and the progressive prosecutor platform is centered on doing less.
There's just a fundamental mismatch on what voters want.
Progressive prosecutors argue that by reducing arrests and convictions, crime rates will go down as people's lives are disrupted less by incarceration and recidivism is reduced. So it seems that is not happening. As such, I don't see why these soft-on-crime policies should be continued.
Crime is rising much faster in areas with these prosecutors though.
Honestly hope all of this causes a moderate rally inside the democratic party that ends the progressive movement
Is there any evidence of a relationship between progressiveness of prosecution and crime? I can't possibly think of a way that a criminal is deterred or enabled by such things
A lot of half-educated people on here have a tendency to read a headline that says(e.g.) “we can’t directly empirically prove that Boudin’s policies caused an increase in crime” and to draw totally unjustified conclusions from it like “prosecution never has any effect on crime.”
What’s true is that we can’t prove, empirically, what the effect is of a more vs a less progressive prosecutor. We don’t have enough data at this time.
That DOES NOT mean that prosecution has no effect on crime rates. It means that we have to make a judgment call about what we think the effect is likely to be, even though we can’t know for a scientific certainty. This is an extremely common situation—many things in the social sciences aren’t super simple black and white issues like “building housing reduces the cost of housing” where you can just point to a study that cleanly answers the question.
One of the most replicated and well-established findings in the field of criminology is that effective felony police work decreases the incidence of violent crime. It’s also extremely well-established that incapacitation (having the people who do violent crimes in prison, where they can’t do violent crimes) is a big part of that effect. I can provide sources for either of these claims if you’d like; my understanding is that they’re not controversial at all.
Given that, why on earth would it not be the case that basically refusing to prosecute crimes pushes crime rates upwards? It seems obvious that it would. If you “can’t imagine” why that would be the case, the burden of proof is on you to find strong evidence for your theory.
And no, “I looked at the year before boudin was elected and the year after and compared the rates of reported crimes” is not strong evidence of anything.
Yes. Look at Chicago. We elected a progressive DA and a bunch of judges. Kim Foxx and crew are constantly refusing to press charges or reducing things down to a slap on the wrist. I’ve seen a quote like “the victim wasn’t hurt, if we lock up a teenager for carjacking it will ruin their life.” They get charged with misdemeanor vehicular trespass instead. It’s an insane situation.
Well we do know that crime rates are rising the most in rural areas and red states so seems like there may be a relationship where more progressive areas are seeing less crime
Depends upon your definition of "progressiveness". There is a direct correlation between poverty and crime. Gentrification in one neighborhood, as goods and services increase in value this prices people out of that neighborhood and cloisters the poor in other neighborhoods. So suddenly a low income area which had a stable economy for X number of people sees a sudden influx of 50-100% suddenly the stable economy for those who lived there previously is destabilized by the poor exodus. Progress in one city is destabilization in another.
If progressive are being thrown out of SF of all places, this fall is going to be a blood path for them.
Movements are more than a person. Larry Krasner cruised to re-election in Philadelphia last year. But SF is a city on a hill (figuratively!), and in trying to stand out within that city, Boudin made himself a lightning rod.
Attempting to address our criminal justice issues through the prosecutor's office was always misguided and doomed to fail. It's the prisons, stupid. Ok it's not just the prisons, it's many factors, but the reforming the prison system is the best way to make serious progress imo.
The problem is that both progressives and conservatives have terrible ideas. Cons want to keep the current system, progressives want to transition to an entirely rehabilitative/restorative system. Imo, what is needed is something in between. A system where most convicts should expect to serve part of their sentence in a traditional prison and part in a rehabilitation center. Where convicts are screened for their rehabilitation potential and placed into programs that promote pro-social behavior and skills development after serving the punishment portion of their sentence.
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