🐴👞🤔💭✅❓
Do emoji count as a language or simply a writing system? Arguably they don’t totally conform to any existing grammatical framework, but at the same time rely on a form of transcription (🐴👞 only works for languages where “horseshoe” is a term).
Oh your a linguistics nerd, that must mean you’re well versed in political theory… oh it doesn’t automatically mean that (whether you are or not)? Cause all the Bernie Bros have informed me that Noam Fucking Chomsky is a political theory god as the most published author of all time in linguistics and not political theory
Reject Kissenger, return to Soros.
“Repressive regimes are now in the ascendant and open societies are under siege. Today China and Russia present the greatest threat to open society.”
Is that proper Grammar saying "now in the ascendant"? I honestly never know what and what is not proper in English
This meme implies Chomsky is a reliable guy and I don't like that.
I'd say he's fairly reliable. Whenever you need someone to say 'American Hegemony Bad!!', he's only an email away...
He's more reliable than the average twitter tankie although that's not exactly a high bar.
Not horseshoe theory for me:
Chomsky is making more of a normative statement in that he believes Russia was unfairly provoked by the west and its “fair” for Ukraine to give up territory as some weird form of compensation
Kissinger is making a descriptive statement about the situation on the ground, i.e. that in order for the war to end, Ukraine will have to give up territory (not that this is the fair thing to do, or that you even have to agree with his assessment).
Chomsky:
Kissinger, according to the Telegraph:
“Negotiations need to begin in the next two months before it creates upheavals and tensions that will not be easily overcome. Ideally, the dividing line should be a return to the status quo ante. Pursuing the war beyond that point would not be about the freedom of Ukraine, but a new war against Russia itself,” he said.
He told the World Economic Forum that Russia had been an essential part of Europe for 400 years and had been the guarantor of the European balance of power structure at critical times. European leaders should not lose sight of the longer term relationship, and nor should they risk pushing Russia into a permanent alliance with China.
“I hope the Ukrainians will match the heroism they have shown with wisdom,” he said, adding with his famous sense of realpolitik that the proper role for the country is to be a neutral buffer state rather than the frontier of Europe.
Chomsky is, ostensibly, making the argument you attribute to Kissinger. Kissinger is making a balance-of-power argument - he actually seems more sympathetic to Russia than Chomsky does, if you read the whole Current Affairs interview.
I feel you are giving Kissinger more credit than he deserves.
Kissinger is making a descriptive statement about the situation on the ground, i.e. that in order for the war to end, Ukraine will have to give up territory (not that this is the fair thing to do, or that you even have to agree with his assessment).
this is the argument that chomsky has been making (and all of the other people on the left this sub has spent months spitting with rage at)
Nothing I’ve seen from Chomsky suggests he thinks Russia ‘deserves’ the territory it is trying to take. I think he’s essentially making the argument you say Kissinger is; a more realist argument than moralist.
Manufacturing Consent was an interesting read but Chomsky sure does love brutal communist autocrats
Kissinger is a fucking war criminal
Sure, I still think he does raise some good points, at least as outlined in the telegraph article.
-Russia had been an essential part of Europe for 400 years and had been the guarantor of the European balance of power. -European leaders should not lose sight of the longer term relationship, and nor should they risk pushing Russia into a permanent alliance with China. -The Western coalition against Vladimir Putin is fraying badly as the food and energy crisis deepens, and that sanctions may have reached their limits. -Eleven Republican senators and 57 congressmen in the US voted against the colossal $40bn aid package for Ukraine, an early sign of fragmenting cohesion in Washington. -Putin is counting on the West to lose focus and that is our real challenge. People are as concerned, or more concerned, about the rising price of gas and groceries. -China, India, and almost 60 states that refused to back a UN resolution denouncing Russia’s invasion. -Saudi Arabia and the Opec states have made it clear that they will not draw on their spare capacity to cover the lost Russian supply of oil.
Disregarding the person who said them, these are all very real and points that need much consideration.
I said way back when the sanction started that they are not sustainable, and neither is support. Even more so, said support was never really multilateral. There are far too many holes. I said it then—3 or 4 months before things start to fall apart.
I think in retrospect, this will be a foreign policy decision that the West was forced to make, and it won’t be looked upon fondly.
Articles used are:
https://www.jpost.com/international/article-704436
but I don't have a Telegraph subscription so look at this Washington Post article instead I guess:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/05/24/henry-kissinger-ukraine-russia-territory-davos/
Seriously, Kissinger? Why is it that many realist international relations scholars love giving terrible takes so much?
Both are genocide denying pieces of shit
Drat, just when I was about to suggest Henry Kissinger run for President. He'd be the perfect candidate besides this and the whole not a natural born citizen issue.
No, he always had nuclear takes. The guy is one of the biggest practitioners of realpolitik out there.
Reas Noam chomsky from" as "Noam Chomsky form". Too much automata theory ✊🏻😔
Why can't these two just fuck off back to what ever pit of tartarus they crawled from?
Originally posted on r/ActiveMeasures by u/LRLOP-TA. Reposted here with their permission-- all credit to them!
Previous posts here and here by robotevil on this topic were welcome, so I hope this follow-up is too. I got permission to post this on a throwaway.
For years the (Russia-backed?) head mod of r/MurderedByAOC and other popular left-leaning subs, LRLOurPresident, has been posting propaganda to anger, misinform, and demoralize US progressives and encourage them to stop voting. They reinforce this by using bots/alts that copy-paste their past comments immediately after a post goes up. For a long time LRLOP and the alts only talked about US student debt cancellation, and had been in hibernation ever since Russian sanctions began after its invasion of Ukraine. While LRLOP was gone, the only other active mod, voice-of-hermes, has been working overtime to delete posts/comments critical of tankies and Russia in LRLOP's subs. Now LRLOP and the bots are back, using US progressive politicians to push a new pro-Russia narrative.
Despite the name, r/MurderedByAOC doesn't have much from AOC or murders by anyone, really. It used to be that a long time ago, but for over a year it's typically consisted of one person posting misinformation/propaganda designed for enraged and increasingly apathetic progressives to latch on to, then using alt sock puppet accounts to immediately copy/paste old comments (so they're likely to be seen first and upvoted to the top, comments were often gilded immediately for this purpose as well). In the meantime, the post immediately gets massive upvotes (probably by bots, it's easy to buy upvotes on reddit, but who knows) to boost it towards the front page where it can rise more organically.
The person behind this is LRLOurPresident (tho people often mistakenly think it's "IRL" which is a different user that's already been banned, while LRLOP is still going). Here's some of the best examples of the kind of "propaganda" posts they've made:
This one is my favorite. Obviously Black Americans don't own 48% of all student debt as the tweet says. Here's the actual data
Guys, Biden is "To the right of a literal fascist"! No actually Bolsonaro forgave some late fees for a fraction of a fraction of the Brazilian population just before an election. If you're interested in more actual details
Hillary the next presidential nominee? Or just an opinion piece by a hack for the New York Post, a tabloid. Like most posts, this one is designed to just anger progressives
This is literally just a picture of Biden walking away with its own narrative slapped on. There was no "abrupt" end to that day's press conference, it went on for hours
Anyway, after a post was made, comments immediately started popping up, wow that was fast! Actually these are alt/bot accounts obviously controlled by LRLOurPresident. They would copy/paste their old comments, mostly to r/MurderedByAOC but sometimes other subs within LRLOurPresident's network of 20 subs they mod, with only minor or no variations. Even a quick glance at their comment history reveals this:
finalgarlicdis crambledont DrWaxu DCokeSpoke
These were the only alt accounts for a LONG time, but haven't been seen in a while (since the Russian sanctions) and are slowly being replaced. Lately new bot accounts have been popping up, usually created within minutes of a post with a prepared comment to immediately copy-paste. Mostly they just copy-paste comments from themselves or other bots, though the most recent ones sometimes write something slightly more original, and many are likely controlled by another mod (more on that later). Some are even shadowbanned on reddit (but their comments get mod-approved anyway):
originaltas 500lettersize lettergetterbetter aquapropazicene recruitcat desktopramtr juniormemento okcriver servicewithastyle nooneedle lowerbullfrogalfalfa jazzlikeenergydelay
Anyone pointing out the copy/pasted responses of this bot network in the comments are deleted ASAP to keep up the scam (but running MBAOC posts through reveddit.com reveals this).
Lots of lies hits spread in political subreddits were nurtured in r/MurderedByAOC by these bots. For over a year they've been focused on Biden and the Democrats to sow division:
When it appears Biden isn't doing enough, repeating that he said "Nothing will fundamentally change". Actual context: Said to wealthy people to assure them taxes increasing wouldn't really affect them
Biden and the Democrat congress have done literally nothing! Well except for this list of dozens of things...
Biden hasn't followed through on his campaign promise to forgive $10K in student debt by executive order (He said he would do this if Congress gave him a bill to do so, not by EO)
Biden said he'd cancel $50K in student debt by EO! (There is no context for this, it's literally just made up and repeated by the bots enough that others assume it's true)
Who's the architect of and solely responsible for legislation disallowing student debt from being discharged during bankruptcy? Of course it's Joe Biden! Except the bill was written by a Republican and would have passed an R majority Senate anyway, he just voted for it. (Also saying it can never be discharged isn't true, though it's certainly NOT easy and few try)
Once sanctions against Russia began after its invasion of Ukraine, LRLOP's posts went from near-daily to about once a month. With LRLOP stepping back, the only active mod in MBAOC and a dozen other LRLOP subreddits was voice-of-hermes, who ever since Russia invaded Ukraine has gone mask-off as a "Yes daddy Putin please flatten me" tankie. Or has he? Really their entire worldview boils down to "USA bad", so NATO and Ukraine bad, so constantly supporting Russian propaganda is really just a cRaZy side-effect. Surely it's a coincidence too that reveddit reveals they've been deleting anti-Russia comments and those that encourage voting in any subreddit they mod (including non-LRLOP "leftist unity" subs, AKA tankies welcome/encouraged).
voice-of-hermes takes a day off from being terminally online allowing this thoughtful post in r/DemocraticSocialism calling out tankies with LOTS of agreement in the comments to actually gain traction before being removed
Gets downvotes on MBAOC for supporting RT (RussiaToday) host claiming US is lying about Russia preparing to invade Ukraine, then deletes the entire submission in shame when Russia invades the next day
Deletes all comments encouraging voting so there's a spotlight on his response (click "show hidden replies")
When the only active mod calls anyone slightly right of Bernie a liberal/neoliberal and anyone to the right of that a fascist and ensures the sub's posts and comments reflect that, the end result is you could be a fan of Bernie/AOC or just progressive/leftist and yet find a sub like MBAOC or DemocraticSocialism surprisingly hostile, especially if you're not aware of how many comments get removed and assume "Well, I guess this is what progressives think?"
All of LRLOP's posts (except one) since the sanctions 2.5 months ago are pro-Russia, and LRLOP is back to posting nearly every day:
Comes out for first time since the Russian invasion to... use Bernie to simp for Russia. Guys, ignore what the entire world is enraged about, what's really important is the US is JUST as bad. This submission comes after posting almost exclusively about cancelling student debt for MONTHS prior
Comes out again a month later just to steal someone else's post that got popular on MBAOC without them. No time to set up bot comments on this one when you're copying someone else's work
3rd, weeks later, not about Student Debt or Russia but Roe v Wade? Has LRLOP turned a new leaf? Oh it's because hours later once the post got 14k upvotes they sticky a comment to SIMP FOR RUSSIA AGAIN! As usual it's really easy to find the bots in the full comments, just look for the ones with awards
A day later, again using Ilhan to spread a pro-Russia message. This time the comments go off the rails, with everyone disagreeing and pointing out the propaganda in the alt's comments until over half the comments are deleted and the post is locked! Also the best evidence yet that bought upvotes are also used on bot comments: Their top-level comments have hundreds of upvotes yet additional comments underneath preaching the same pro-Russia anti-US/NATO sentiments have massive downvotes, one even sitting at -135. Maybe it's too expensive to upvote them all? All these bot comments sound exactly like voice-of-hermes's "US proxy war" bullshit, it's becoming apparent that the new bot/alt comments that aren't just copy/pastes of their old comments are controlled by this mod
Still pushing the same agenda, posted days after AOC voted to send more money to Ukraine anyway, the exact thing these pro-Putin mods are against, because she too realized it was necessary!
More of the same, with voice-of-hermes replying to himself on his various alts in the comments ...pretty sad really
Edit: Brand new post, time for a 2 year old tweet by Bernie to make it look like he's against giving aid to Ukraine, propaganda from bots already deployed
robotevil was permanently suspended for his previous posts here revealing LRLOP's botnet, wonder if LRLOP's bots mass-reported him? BTW his first post compiles a lot of past research into LRLOP if you're interested
willwriteofthe is another LRLOP alt that just cross-posts the same disinfo at the same time to other subreddits in the network
Running MBAOC (and other LRLOP subs) through reveddit makes it clear that EVERY comment mentioning "Russia" now is being automatically removed... comments by the mod's alts or those that keep with the mod's message are all re-instated
Mass comment purge of pro-Ukraine comments in r/DebtStrike, another LRLOP sub that's often promoted with stickied comments in the other subs
A good site detailing the propaganda Russia is employing against Ukraine outside of reddit
Thank you for reading. I hope you found this post informative and consider sharing it elsewhere on reddit
EDIT: Thank you so much for the awards, but again, I am not the OP of this post. All I did was repost this here at u/LRLOP-TA's request. Please go award them on their original post instead!
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So We Have A Probably Russian Farm Account Problem
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The US state primaries have started, which means that the US election season has officially unfortunately begun. r/Neoliberal is going to be targeted by malicious outside actors, the same as any other political sub. It may, due to our slightly more centrist appeal than other subs, even be targeted more.
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Example of Our Probably Russian Farm Account Problem
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Here’s a particularly blatant example that got on r/Neoliberal ‘s front page yesterday. We’re a relatively small sub; it doesn’t take much, only 55 upvotes.
First off, it’s a six year old story. She’s not running for office anymore and she’s not going to run now, it’s literally a six year old story. But Russian bots know that Hillary, Trump, Obama, cops, and cop are hot-button keywords guaranteed to get a comment section frothing. Those are their favorite headline words.
And check out this poster’s history, screenshot for posterity. What kind of post history is that? Are they even hiding they’re fake? Is this a test? Normally these guys at least post on SquaredCircle or video game subs or some other topic a 20-year-old Russian dude can easily handle. No effort, 0.5/10.
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Why/How This Is OUR Problem?
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Alas. We here of r/neoliberal — and I mean legit, regular YIMBY-ing, free-trade supporting, globalist, pro-Ukraine posters — we fell for it. We all fell in on each other in a truly spectacular display of enraged righteous fury, with multiple comments with karma in the -30s, spread across multiple threads of fighting. Over a six year old story.
The most obvious post ever designed to divide us? It worked.
To be clear, I’m not knocking on all the commenters/posters there. Those farms have years of experience at this. It is their actual job to piss you off, it is a data-driven science.
But this is what it’s like when they’re not trying, and they’re going to get more subtle. This includes them having “credible” farm accounts that aren’t as easy to see through. They especially post/comment in surely-not-at-all-bad-faith threads about issues that they know a more politically diverse subreddit like ours will 100% fight over.
I’d post more examples, but because while I’m 90% sure I’ve identified several accounts, plausible deniability is on their side.
Instead, look at the sub’s front page exactly five months ago, non-election season. I really encourage you to poke around our January and February history. Top posts for the day generally consisted of posts that neoliberals knew that fellow neoliberals would enjoy. At the risk of sounding cheesy: as a group, even taking the Great Succ Divide into account, we’ve historically been pretty respectful of the big tent — and that means we’re a bit more inclined to focus on what we know will unite us, not what we already know divides us.
This has changed especially in the last few weeks. I’m sure more people than I have noticed. This will get worse as the mid-terms approach.
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What To Do About The Problem
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While there are tools developed to catch malicious influencers, we are unlikely to get our hands on them and Reddit is unlikely to use them either.
When looking at a newer post, consider:
Is this actually a neoliberal story that an actual human neoliberal would post here, or is it just a particularly divisive politically-flavored story? If it’s particularly divisive, why is it relevant to the sub, and who benefits from posting it here?
Would this kind of post have been posted here in a non-election season?
Does the title include favorite words like “trump”, “hillary”, “obama”, “cops”, or “cop”? These were the most likely words to be used by Russian puppet accounts, due to divisiveness. I imagine 6 years later they’ll find new trigger words but these seem to still be working fine for them!
Is the OP engaging in good faith debate in the comment section, posting minimally and then bailing, or did they just straight up post and run?
Does the OP regularly post in subreddits that make sense for a somewhat-rounded human being, or (outside politics) are they active exclusively in sports, crypto, and/or video game subreddits? That list can include pretty much any subreddit that a 20-something year old Russian doesn’t have to think very hard about to quickly shit out a post and maybe run it by their proofreader — but we gotta start somewhere.
Is the OP’s post history consistent?
Would a center-left poster herereallylisten to VaushV?Is VaushV really a thing? I’m judging you, but OK. Could a progressive transperson really manage have net negative karma in the only trans sub they’re active in?And importantly: Do I suspect this person isn’t a legit account because I disagree with them, or because they’re actually engaging in suspicious/bad faith behaviors? Are they really a farm account, or could they just be an asshole?
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Critical Thinking? Gross.
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IKR? Ugh.
If anyone else has any good suggestions I will totally add them here for discussion.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
advisors to Governor Polis
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