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There's always next time

623

There's always next time

r/neoliberal - There's always next time
170 comments
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level 1

I guess he's absolutely tanking with independents and Democratic enthusiasm isn't that high? Does Biden have less independent support than Trump did at his lowest?

166
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level 2

Biden doesn’t have the die hard nutty base Trump had. When things go wrong it’s the world against him.

211
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level 2

I am not sure atm. But his approval rating on day 490 is worse than Trump's on day 490. It's getting pretty bad for us rn.

86
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level 2

Yep Trumps polling got a lot lower during the Obamacare and tax cut debates.

5
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level 1
· 22 hr. ago · edited 22 hr. ago

I don’t mean this in a mean way as I definitely agree this is a concerning trend but did something happen in one of the primaries or a new poll or something like that that made you post this today? Just curious if there is something new I need to worry about. 🙁

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User avatar
level 2

I posted this after I saw Biden's approval rating rn is worse than Trump's approval rating on day 490.

36
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level 2

It's slipping even more in the last week or two due to gas prices surging again and the infant formula shortage making all the headlines. It'll probably bounce back to ~42-43% if these issues settle down in the next few months. Or it'll get worse and slip into the high 30s if gas prices actually go to $6 like some analysts are predicting. So who tf knows lol.

3
User avatar
level 1

I am still scared of coraline to this day

24
User avatar
level 1

What has happened recenty to make Biden's unpopularity to increase more?

21
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level 2

I am not a political expert but it's likely the economy. It is extremely frustrating to have such a massive issue that we can't fix any time soon.

50
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level 2

Was brought down by Afghanistan and then held down due to Omicron and inflation

13
User avatar
level 2

Same thing happened to Obama.

Inherited a shit economy. It happens often after some dipshit republican parties and golfs for 4 years and then shits the bed when crisis comes up.

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level 2
· 16 hr. ago
r/place '22: Neoliberal Battalion

Gas prices. That’s literally it.

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level 2
· 12 hr. ago
Norman Borlaug

United States military withdrawal from Afghanistan

Inflation, particularly energy and gas prices

A deeply demoralized, pessimistic American public

The pandemic enduring — in the minds of public health officials, anyways — past the summer of 2021

Negative GDP growth and an increasingly sluggish US economy

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level 2

Economy going to shit

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level 2
· 17 hr. ago · edited 17 hr. ago
Jeff Bezos

I’m thinking this is just the nature of politics now and will happen no matter who is in office. It’s become more about hating the other party more than it is about actually supporting your own party. Republicans cared more about hating Obama than they did about electing Trump. Once Obama/Democrats we’re out of office, they didn’t stick around and approval immediately tanked. Same thing happening here, Democrats cared more about hating Trump and Republicans than actually supporting Biden and then immediately when they were gone.

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level 1

I’m really starting to believe that people are blaming everything on Biden but only Biden specifically. It’s too early to be sure but our senate candidates are doing pretty well for a midterm year, it’s just Biden that people don’t like for several reasons. Tbh I don’t think a good amount of Americans really care about or even remember who their senators are. Biden is the one you always see on the news.

207
level 2

Not far off. I recently had to explain to my friends what midterms were

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level 2

Yeah I've been surprised to see how far ahead Mark Kelly is polling. Definitely see retaining 50 seats in the Senate as more of a possibility.

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level 2
· 19 hr. ago
Michel Foucault

This is the poll I like to see. Not clear one way or the other, just the way I like it.

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level 2

Iirc, special election results have been suggesting a shellacking for the Democrats on average

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level 2
· 11 hr. ago
Disciple of The Economist

OK, but not caring during midterms is also the kiss of death.

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level 2

GO OUT AND VOTE

Young people don't fucking vote in the USA and it pisses me off. Last I read, the 18-29s had something like a 50% participation rate! https://circle.tufts.edu/latest-research/half-youth-voted-2020-11-point-increase-2016

Fucking vote.

Vote for Brandon and his cabal of climate-positive, abortion-protecting deplorables dammit!

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level 2
· 20 hr. ago
"how do I flair up" -/u/SaladSeltzers

He really needs to not run in ‘24

He’ll be remembered well for it.

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level 1
· 22 hr. ago
Milton Friedman

There’s always next time

You sure about that?

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level 2

We can always vote for him in 2028 if he loses next election.

/s

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level 1
· 22 hr. ago
Liberal-Bidenist Vanguard of the Joeletarian Revolution

Ouch ☹️

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level 1

Am I wrong in thinking that a Democratic president will tend to have lower approval ratings than a GOP president? Republicans are just going to be more attracted to a cult of personality, and will give their approval after hearing a few sound bytes.

If I got called up by a polling agency I would say I'm neutral on Biden. Despite that there's a 99% chance I'll vote for him in 2024. The only thing that would stop me is if a mythical Rockefeller Republican showed up out of nowhere.

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level 2
· 19 hr. ago
World Bank

Even if Republicans are more likely to stick with their president than Democrats, it should be a huge red flag that Biden's approval among Independents has fallen from 61% at the start of his term to 39% now. Biden beat Trump with Independents by 13 points (Hillary lost Independents by 4 points). House Dems won Indies by 9 points in 2020.

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level 1
· 18 hr. ago
Jeff Bezos

So I guess we are in for ping pong elections? Change parties entirely every 2-4 years and immediately flip in that party when they world hasn’t changed in the first 100 days? Don’t forget opposition party now has one goal: obstruction

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level 1

Thought gun reform and abortion would save the Democrats?

Republicans will run on Biden and inflation and win in a landslide and we will have 2+ years of a do-nothing Republican congress.

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level 2

How much would talks on gun reform really help? I know the shooting was in Texas, but bringing it up again would be a mistake, no?

12
level 1

Most people only voted for him because they don’t like trump I don’t know why y’all are acting surprised he’s not very popular.

14
level 2

Well clearly he used to be more popular. I don’t know if BBB passing would’ve changed things, but Biden is being saddled with a bunch of problems all at once. He’s handling some very competently, where his experience shows, and he’s handling others very poorly where his inability to adapt to new circumstances shows.

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level 2

By that logic a nutjob like Sanders would have had a clear shot during the primaries just like Trump did

-3
level 1
· 8 hr. ago
John Keynes

Hey man just remember Truman showed the US poll numbers don’t count with this cheeky smile.

2
level 1
· 4 hr. ago
Milton Friedman

Man, if only there was some historical precedent that would tell us what to expect when a moderate Democrat president is unpopular due to high inflation and perceived weakness on foreign policy

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level 2

the foreign policy arguement is annoying because he's actively assisting Ukraine and said "Yes." to defending Taiwan

1
level 1

Looks like we’re getting a Republican President and complete utter destruction in the midterms🙁

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level 2
· 8 hr. ago
John Keynes

Yeah just like when we had President Dewey

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level 1
· 14 hr. ago
George Soros

I like joe

3
level 1

Guys Macron was at like 10% approval in the middle of his term and he blew everyone out, chill tf down.

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level 2

What if I told you American politics and French politics are not the same?

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level 2
· 8 hr. ago
European Union

Completely different political system

A 35 approval rating in France is fantastic, but catastrophic in the US

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level 2
· 8 hr. ago
John Keynes

That wouldn’t be a fear if it weren’t for the electoral college giving “Let’s Go Brandon he raise gas prices” from bumblefuck Ohio giving more voter representation than most other Americans.

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level 1

Hmm, maybe reneging on all of my promises was a bad idea?

No, it is the voters who are wrong.

-3
level 2

This but

0
level 1

So much propaganda about how bad joe Biden is it’s pretty annoying.

1
level 1
· 17 hr. ago
r/place '22: NCD Battalion

How did his chin shrink so much in the second image. Or is this a clever use-of-perspective ploy by the artist.

0
level 2

Asking the real questions.

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Originally posted on r/ActiveMeasures by u/LRLOP-TA. Reposted here with their permission-- all credit to them!


Previous posts here and here by robotevil on this topic were welcome, so I hope this follow-up is too. I got permission to post this on a throwaway.

TL;DR

For years the (Russia-backed?) head mod of r/MurderedByAOC and other popular left-leaning subs, LRLOurPresident, has been posting propaganda to anger, misinform, and demoralize US progressives and encourage them to stop voting. They reinforce this by using bots/alts that copy-paste their past comments immediately after a post goes up. For a long time LRLOP and the alts only talked about US student debt cancellation, and had been in hibernation ever since Russian sanctions began after its invasion of Ukraine. While LRLOP was gone, the only other active mod, voice-of-hermes, has been working overtime to delete posts/comments critical of tankies and Russia in LRLOP's subs. Now LRLOP and the bots are back, using US progressive politicians to push a new pro-Russia narrative.

The History

Despite the name, r/MurderedByAOC doesn't have much from AOC or murders by anyone, really. It used to be that a long time ago, but for over a year it's typically consisted of one person posting misinformation/propaganda designed for enraged and increasingly apathetic progressives to latch on to, then using alt sock puppet accounts to immediately copy/paste old comments (so they're likely to be seen first and upvoted to the top, comments were often gilded immediately for this purpose as well). In the meantime, the post immediately gets massive upvotes (probably by bots, it's easy to buy upvotes on reddit, but who knows) to boost it towards the front page where it can rise more organically.

The person behind this is LRLOurPresident (tho people often mistakenly think it's "IRL" which is a different user that's already been banned, while LRLOP is still going). Here's some of the best examples of the kind of "propaganda" posts they've made:

Anyway, after a post was made, comments immediately started popping up, wow that was fast! Actually these are alt/bot accounts obviously controlled by LRLOurPresident. They would copy/paste their old comments, mostly to r/MurderedByAOC but sometimes other subs within LRLOurPresident's network of 20 subs they mod, with only minor or no variations. Even a quick glance at their comment history reveals this:

finalgarlicdis crambledont DrWaxu DCokeSpoke

These were the only alt accounts for a LONG time, but haven't been seen in a while (since the Russian sanctions) and are slowly being replaced. Lately new bot accounts have been popping up, usually created within minutes of a post with a prepared comment to immediately copy-paste. Mostly they just copy-paste comments from themselves or other bots, though the most recent ones sometimes write something slightly more original, and many are likely controlled by another mod (more on that later). Some are even shadowbanned on reddit (but their comments get mod-approved anyway):

originaltas 500lettersize lettergetterbetter aquapropazicene recruitcat desktopramtr juniormemento okcriver servicewithastyle nooneedle lowerbullfrogalfalfa jazzlikeenergydelay

Anyone pointing out the copy/pasted responses of this bot network in the comments are deleted ASAP to keep up the scam (but running MBAOC posts through reveddit.com reveals this).

Lots of lies hits spread in political subreddits were nurtured in r/MurderedByAOC by these bots. For over a year they've been focused on Biden and the Democrats to sow division:

  • When it appears Biden isn't doing enough, repeating that he said "Nothing will fundamentally change". Actual context: Said to wealthy people to assure them taxes increasing wouldn't really affect them

  • Biden and the Democrat congress have done literally nothing! Well except for this list of dozens of things...

  • Biden hasn't followed through on his campaign promise to forgive $10K in student debt by executive order (He said he would do this if Congress gave him a bill to do so, not by EO)

  • Biden said he'd cancel $50K in student debt by EO! (There is no context for this, it's literally just made up and repeated by the bots enough that others assume it's true)

  • Who's the architect of and solely responsible for legislation disallowing student debt from being discharged during bankruptcy? Of course it's Joe Biden! Except the bill was written by a Republican and would have passed an R majority Senate anyway, he just voted for it. (Also saying it can never be discharged isn't true, though it's certainly NOT easy and few try)

LRLOurPresident's "sanctioned" vacation

Once sanctions against Russia began after its invasion of Ukraine, LRLOP's posts went from near-daily to about once a month. With LRLOP stepping back, the only active mod in MBAOC and a dozen other LRLOP subreddits was voice-of-hermes, who ever since Russia invaded Ukraine has gone mask-off as a "Yes daddy Putin please flatten me" tankie. Or has he? Really their entire worldview boils down to "USA bad", so NATO and Ukraine bad, so constantly supporting Russian propaganda is really just a cRaZy side-effect. Surely it's a coincidence too that reveddit reveals they've been deleting anti-Russia comments and those that encourage voting in any subreddit they mod (including non-LRLOP "leftist unity" subs, AKA tankies welcome/encouraged).

When the only active mod calls anyone slightly right of Bernie a liberal/neoliberal and anyone to the right of that a fascist and ensures the sub's posts and comments reflect that, the end result is you could be a fan of Bernie/AOC or just progressive/leftist and yet find a sub like MBAOC or DemocraticSocialism surprisingly hostile, especially if you're not aware of how many comments get removed and assume "Well, I guess this is what progressives think?"

LRLOurPresident's return

All of LRLOP's posts (except one) since the sanctions 2.5 months ago are pro-Russia, and LRLOP is back to posting nearly every day:

  • Comes out for first time since the Russian invasion to... use Bernie to simp for Russia. Guys, ignore what the entire world is enraged about, what's really important is the US is JUST as bad. This submission comes after posting almost exclusively about cancelling student debt for MONTHS prior

  • Comes out again a month later just to steal someone else's post that got popular on MBAOC without them. No time to set up bot comments on this one when you're copying someone else's work

  • 3rd, weeks later, not about Student Debt or Russia but Roe v Wade? Has LRLOP turned a new leaf? Oh it's because hours later once the post got 14k upvotes they sticky a comment to SIMP FOR RUSSIA AGAIN! As usual it's really easy to find the bots in the full comments, just look for the ones with awards

  • A day later, again using Ilhan to spread a pro-Russia message. This time the comments go off the rails, with everyone disagreeing and pointing out the propaganda in the alt's comments until over half the comments are deleted and the post is locked! Also the best evidence yet that bought upvotes are also used on bot comments: Their top-level comments have hundreds of upvotes yet additional comments underneath preaching the same pro-Russia anti-US/NATO sentiments have massive downvotes, one even sitting at -135. Maybe it's too expensive to upvote them all? All these bot comments sound exactly like voice-of-hermes's "US proxy war" bullshit, it's becoming apparent that the new bot/alt comments that aren't just copy/pastes of their old comments are controlled by this mod

  • Still pushing the same agenda, posted days after AOC voted to send more money to Ukraine anyway, the exact thing these pro-Putin mods are against, because she too realized it was necessary!

  • More of the same, with voice-of-hermes replying to himself on his various alts in the comments ...pretty sad really

  • Edit: Brand new post, time for a 2 year old tweet by Bernie to make it look like he's against giving aid to Ukraine, propaganda from bots already deployed

Other Notes

Thank you for reading. I hope you found this post informative and consider sharing it elsewhere on reddit


EDIT: Thank you so much for the awards, but again, I am not the OP of this post. All I did was repost this here at u/LRLOP-TA's request. Please go award them on their original post instead!

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833

———

So We Have A Probably Russian Farm Account Problem

———

The US state primaries have started, which means that the US election season has officially unfortunately begun. r/Neoliberal is going to be targeted by malicious outside actors, the same as any other political sub. It may, due to our slightly more centrist appeal than other subs, even be targeted more.

———

Example of Our Probably Russian Farm Account Problem

———

Here’s a particularly blatant example that got on r/Neoliberal ‘s front page yesterday. We’re a relatively small sub; it doesn’t take much, only 55 upvotes.

Hillary Clinton personally approved plan to share Trump-Russia allegation with the press in 2016, campaign manager says

First off, it’s a six year old story. She’s not running for office anymore and she’s not going to run now, it’s literally a six year old story. But Russian bots know that Hillary, Trump, Obama, cops, and cop are hot-button keywords guaranteed to get a comment section frothing. Those are their favorite headline words.

And check out this poster’s history, screenshot for posterity. What kind of post history is that? Are they even hiding they’re fake? Is this a test? Normally these guys at least post on SquaredCircle or video game subs or some other topic a 20-year-old Russian dude can easily handle. No effort, 0.5/10.

———

Why/How This Is OUR Problem?

———

Alas. We here of r/neoliberal — and I mean legit, regular YIMBY-ing, free-trade supporting, globalist, pro-Ukraine posters — we fell for it. We all fell in on each other in a truly spectacular display of enraged righteous fury, with multiple comments with karma in the -30s, spread across multiple threads of fighting. Over a six year old story.

The most obvious post ever designed to divide us? It worked.

To be clear, I’m not knocking on all the commenters/posters there. Those farms have years of experience at this. It is their actual job to piss you off, it is a data-driven science.

But this is what it’s like when they’re not trying, and they’re going to get more subtle. This includes them having “credible” farm accounts that aren’t as easy to see through. They especially post/comment in surely-not-at-all-bad-faith threads about issues that they know a more politically diverse subreddit like ours will 100% fight over.

I’d post more examples, but because while I’m 90% sure I’ve identified several accounts, plausible deniability is on their side.

Instead, look at the sub’s front page exactly five months ago, non-election season. I really encourage you to poke around our January and February history. Top posts for the day generally consisted of posts that neoliberals knew that fellow neoliberals would enjoy. At the risk of sounding cheesy: as a group, even taking the Great Succ Divide into account, we’ve historically been pretty respectful of the big tent — and that means we’re a bit more inclined to focus on what we know will unite us, not what we already know divides us.

This has changed especially in the last few weeks. I’m sure more people than I have noticed. This will get worse as the mid-terms approach.

———

What To Do About The Problem

———

While there are tools developed to catch malicious influencers, we are unlikely to get our hands on them and Reddit is unlikely to use them either.

When looking at a newer post, consider:

  • Is this actually a neoliberal story that an actual human neoliberal would post here, or is it just a particularly divisive politically-flavored story? If it’s particularly divisive, why is it relevant to the sub, and who benefits from posting it here?

  • Would this kind of post have been posted here in a non-election season?

  • Does the title include favorite words like “trump”, “hillary”, “obama”, “cops”, or “cop”? These were the most likely words to be used by Russian puppet accounts, due to divisiveness. I imagine 6 years later they’ll find new trigger words but these seem to still be working fine for them!

  • Is the OP engaging in good faith debate in the comment section, posting minimally and then bailing, or did they just straight up post and run?

  • Does the OP regularly post in subreddits that make sense for a somewhat-rounded human being, or (outside politics) are they active exclusively in sports, crypto, and/or video game subreddits? That list can include pretty much any subreddit that a 20-something year old Russian doesn’t have to think very hard about to quickly shit out a post and maybe run it by their proofreader — but we gotta start somewhere.

  • Is the OP’s post history consistent? Would a center-left poster here really listen to VaushV? Is VaushV really a thing? I’m judging you, but OK. Could a progressive transperson really manage have net negative karma in the only trans sub they’re active in?

  • And importantly: Do I suspect this person isn’t a legit account because I disagree with them, or because they’re actually engaging in suspicious/bad faith behaviors? Are they really a farm account, or could they just be an asshole?

———

Critical Thinking? Gross.

———

IKR? Ugh.

If anyone else has any good suggestions I will totally add them here for discussion.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

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Created Apr 14, 2011