Is everyone really using TRIACONTANOL incorrectly?

[Only Ornamental]

I was (don't ask why ) reading MBFerts description on how to prepare a Tria solution using Tween-20... should anyone use that, then most certainly they're doing it wrong.

Besides that, I found one report (the famous and repeatedly cited one) wherein they claim the exponentially better results and higher stability of microcrystalline (whyever this should be better than micelles) and rather basic (why use high and possibly damaging pH if there are other means?) suspensions made with ultrasound and combined with calcium ions (the troubling part isn't the far-fetched association with calcium effects on auxins but that they discovered said old jar...) and one patent claim (again, the famous and blablabla) wherein they claim that one shall use a detergent (short chained and sulphonated, they said... and what didn't they test? Right!) at a mol.-fraction of triacontanol and diluting below its CMC (the given reasons look at first and second glance quite dubious and are in conflict with the calcium theory).
It may well be that I missed a point. Actually, it's very easy to miss something due to missing data...
Other patent claims regarding simple dissolution in organic solvents and diluting in water afterwards seem way more convenient and work too. A proper 'side-by-side' is (to my knowledge) outstanding.

I got some logical conclusions from what I've read in said papers and patents but hadn't had the chance to test them yet...
Be that as it may, so far there is no 'right' or 'wrong' (apart from BMFerts version which runs against everything), just different claims (and you can claim anything in a patent but have no need for proof of efficacy regarding agrochemicals) and a shiny (but ominous and rather old publication. The widespread use of Tria worldwide and the different used formula (usually, people don't care how and what exactly they prepare) coupled with satisfied farmers and scientists lets assume that Tria (given a high enough purity) works no matter what. Could we do things better? Maybe...

[Big Jay]

Could you please send me a link to this video, when I clicked on it says error. Thank You

[Dkgrower]

I dont use triacontanol but have some ideas

why dont you use an alcohol and add some aminoacids, to avoid the plant gets alcohol poison.

as long as you dont spray it on very young plants.

Also pls do rember that pH of around 7 is the best for foliar feeding, lower or higher pH can be dangeroush

Also pls rember that amino acids are used in many foliar products to help the plant absorb the target element or compound

[Only Ornamental]

I dont use triacontanol but have some ideas

why dont you use an alcohol and add some aminoacids, to avoid the plant gets alcohol poison.

as long as you dont spray it on very young plants.

Also pls do rember that pH of around 7 is the best for foliar feeding, lower or higher pH can be dangeroush

Also pls rember that amino acids are used in many foliar products to help the plant absorb the target element or compound

Alcohols? What for regarding tria?
You can spray up to 30-40% methanol or around 20% ethanol on plants without any issues! On the contraty, they love it (20-30% methanol) during hot days and high irradiation!!
If you add more, even adding amino acids won't help as plants don't get alcohol poisoning like people do, the toxicity is mostly linked to denaturation . Theoretically, adding glycine to methanol (but not other alcohols) would be a smart move to get additional benefits or rather add methanol when using glycine.
You're right regarding seedlings, they tolerate way less but that's true for many other things (such as amino acids) as well.
Simply adding some amino acids to a mix like a blind playing darts does seldom much good. If done properly, some do form chelates with polyvalent cations rendering them neutral and hence more stable. If the foliar resorption is thereby increased, I do not know as several effects play for and against this. Often, amino acids like so many other things are just pixie dust (claim ingredients aka marketing).

[HenDokuYaku]

I've read this thread and I'm still a bit confused about dissolving Triacontanol. Apparently using Poly20 is a bad idea according to many. Does anyone have any definite recommendations on how to dissolve without Poly20? Or is Poly 20 still an option? Or is heated Acetone with tap water (contains metals) an option? I've been searching and searching and there doesn't seem to be anything definitive.

Excellent Thread. I'm educating myself.

Thanks!

[Only Ornamental]

Tween-20 is still an option, it's just that people use it much like they use duct tape and WD-40. But there's a whole science behind surfactants; why use duct tape to hold two pieces together when you could/should weld them? I haven't had the time (in truth, rather a lack of motivation) to try some stuff to find an optimal composition (= low surfactant %, high stability, small particle size etc.).
For no-storage products and if Tween-20 isn't terribly over-concentrated, it'll hold, not perfect, but good enough.
Acetone will result in a 'microcrystalline' suspension of small nearly solid triacontanol 'droplets'. Done the right way, such a preparation is similar to the ultrasound preparation which is said, allegedly, to be most efficient (if calcium ions are present). But I still have my doubts there (the stuff doesn't add up)... Besides, adding calcium salts should only be done right before the application because they will, with most preparations, dramatically reduce physico-chemical and microbial shelf life and hence also reduce bioactivity.

Is there another way for a quick&dirty household preparation? Apart from the indicated heat/ultrasound version, there's nothing which has been successfully tested and could be done easily by eveyone. Exchanging Tween-20 with other surfactants would in most cases be like taking a different brand of duct tape...

[HenDokuYaku]

I dissolved Triacontanol 1g into 8ml of Polysorbate20 in the microwave then I added 15mls of water and dissolved it in the microwave again. It worked great.

[Only Ornamental]

Tween-20 is still an option, it's just that people use it much like they use duct tape and WD-40...

I dissolved Triacontanol 1g into 8ml of Polysorbate20 in the microwave then I added 15mls of water and dissolved it in the microwave again. It worked great.

Good example, that's what I meant!
If the axes of your car aren't turning cause they are bent and the exhaust starts falling off because it's so rusty, then you use some WD-40 and duct tape and the car will roll again. This ain't a good fix and certainly no clean repair job but da fugg who cares as long as it's cheap and does the trick, right?
In theory (the theory here is right in about 99% of the cases), it should be possible to add the right detergents at 5-10% (which is already a lot) of the weight of tria to get it into a stable emulsion ('solution') and not having to take an excess of about 15 times.

[marvingrand]

no disrespect but you cant weld wood

[shaggyballs]

I recently found a ready to use form of Triacontanol on ebay.
Just add water and you have a ready made Triacontanol emulsion.
I thought it was pretty cool and very simple.
Screw all that heating and such.
Me like-a simple!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/332595328773

[mrrangz]

shaggy, is it the one from uk? and did the concentrate have a poly20 consistency?

[coldcanna]

I recently found a ready to use form of Triacontanol on ebay.
Just add water and you have a ready made Triacontanol emulsion.
I thought it was pretty cool and very simple.
Screw all that heating and such.
Me like-a simple!

Hey would you mind putting up some info about your find?

[shaggyballs]

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[superblackpo]

It was a bit different, had a colloidal type look to it, not completely clear.
But not foamy.



http://www.ebay.com/itm/Triacontanol...item28053ea565

They say it is a propritary mix, so I dont know the ingredients.
Everything is propritary these daze...WTF

I have been getting my hormones here for a bit now.

I will try to post a pic when I mix another batch.


Shag

hey shaggy was just wondering how much of the product of Triacontanol did you put into water? how much water did you use?

[shaggyballs]

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