So, why not INTJ?

Like, I can give examples for why not INFP and ISFP all day. But can someone try and explain it in reverse? Like, what's the smoking gun here? I think the smoking gun against INFP is the Ne-Si axis. As in, Zuko isn't on it. But like, what's the smoking gun that would almost certainly eliminate INTJ?

Obviously, as a Te user myself, I've already tried to find my error and can't. So logic leads me to believe I'm right because I'm definitely not wrong. (Do you see what I'm doing here?) I want to see an argument against INTJ that is extremely confident, that definitely rules it out. Otherwise, I will continue to believe that if my typing can't be destroyed, then it remains to be true.

Just to be clear, I'm extremely confident in my typing, I don't have actual serious doubt. I'm just trying to play the devil's advocate against myself. And I'm hoping someone else can play that roll because I beat my own devil's advocate.

Okay so, Zuko’s tertiary Ni is very apparent. It’s used in an unhealthy way, he latches onto losing his honor and regaining it meaning that he will be accepted again. He never moves past this until accepted by the gaang, but before this, he had really heavy Ni tunnel vision, it was all honor because honor would make everything better, he jumped the gun from regaining honor to regaining his father’s love which is not the same thing, honor was just the word that replaced the idea of his father’s love, linked by Ni when it shouldn’t have been.

okay, if we were to assume zuko has Ne-Si, he would be on the same perceiving axis and would have the exact same functions as aang and sokka. really? aang and sokka? the two characters that are the most inventive and divergent in their thinking? since zuko supposedly has Ne aux, wouldn’t he be at least somewhat cognitively similar to aang considering they would have a similar function stack? anyone who watched the show can see the way they think couldn’t be more different; aang is imaginative and constantly trying to view things from another angle (such as when he tries earthbending) while zuko is straightforward and uncompromising, actually somewhat similar to toph, who is also on the Se-Ni axis. Fi-Te and Se-Ni in combination make way more sense for zuko. an example of these axes in use is when aang struggles to decide whether to kill ozai or not. zuko grows impatient with him, as he believes killing ozai is the best way to bring peace (Fi-Te) and views it as the ONLY objective way to bring peace (Se-Ni). aang, an Ne user, is able to find another way, but zuko was absolutely uncompromising in his morals and perceptions. for the Ne arguments in the comments (and i have read them) i haven’t seen a single argument that isn’t either vague or misattributed. “he had an idea/plan/gut feeling once” doesn’t definitively prove Ne, shocking but literally every type has intuition somewhere in their stack. i see the example of zuko using his sword to open the sun temple cited quite a bit, but that’s more Se creativity rather than Ne creativity. he’s not making an abstract connection, such as aang inventing the air scooter, but is rather using physical tools to reach a solution. another argument for Ne is that he “has a feeling the avatar is alive” (which isn’t even necessarily Ne). he doesn’t just have a gut feeling here, he literally KNOWS aang is alive. katara physically shows him the all-healing water she possesses, so it doesn’t take too much intuitive guesswork to come to the conclusion that he survived. lastly voters argue that zuko brainstorming ways to join the gaang is Ne, and it actually could be, but it doesn’t appear to come naturally to him at all. this is more Ne blindness than Ne aux, because he pretty much has to force himself to come up with ideas, and a dom/aux function should never feel forced. this is a consistent problem for zuko, as he struggles to see things from another angle like aang or sokka can. his plans to capture the avatar are extremely linear and spontaneous without much further consideration, which is why he tends to meet little success. he traps himself at the north pole and in lake laogai because he doesn’t think ahead or consider alternative methods; he acts primarily upon his own emotions and impulses (Fi/Se with poor Te) towards a single-minded objective (childish Ni). i think the biggest problem here is that he’s unhealthy, so he lacks the realistic and grounded perceptions of the typical Se user. remember that he’s a victim of abuse; he’s not going to look like the standard, healthy ISFP. it’s only towards the end of the show where he embraces himself and is able to live in the present with healthy Fi and Se and guide his people towards the future with developed and healthier Ni and Te

Dudes is definetely an INFP.

I'd like to share my perspective on Zuko's enneagram and why I think it's a 1w9

Zuko seeks perfectionism, he is a person who has always felt inferior and is incredibly self-critical who, above all, seeks to meet the standards of his nation and demonstrate his competence.

When he is in stress, I mean most of the show he shows unhealthy characteristics of type 4 being a rigid and inflexible complainer and feeling misunderstood or defective, being in a melancholic state of constant self-loathing, being stubborn, distant and not very conscious of his emotions.

The 1s are integrated into 7 and well we can agree that Zuko does not seem like anything 7 at first glance since he is in a constant mood but in the few moments when we see him relaxed I can see him being more optimistic, adventurous and open and trying to be nice or funny telling jokes or cheering people failing on occasions due to their social awkwardness

When he becomes the Fire Lord his 1w9 is even more evident as he has the constant fear and anguish of being like his cruel father literally the basic fear of 1 being perceived as evil or corrupt

Two questions:

For those who vote INFP, where’s his Ne?

And why do some disagree he’s a 4w3? Seems fitting to me?


I’m open not judging, I just don’t understand

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Specific INFP voters who claim that ISFP voters view them as "sensitive poetic crybabies": first off, you're projecting a stereotype that ISFP voters are just voting that way to spite you, which... isn't that also making generalizations about the other side, which is exactly what you're complaining about? And these are the same people who blocked me for merely stating objectively why I think he's ISFP (I wasn't attacking anyone or saying anything personal, like???) lmaooo you can't make this stuff up.

his entire crisis and obsession with capturing the avatar and restoring his honor is a Fi-Si loop, if he gets his honor back, it means he'll have his old life back (Si) and he doesn't care about anybody when he's in that state, he is stuck on his wishes (Fi) to get what he wants

I'm only on S1 but WHERE IS NE?? If anything he is an impulsive, reactive Se user ISFP.