be honest, it always made more sense than christianity
>>5161562 (OP)No. It is just as stupid.
>>5161562 (OP)Only if you are a pedophile rapist.
Make a real thread or stop shitposting you faggot. Making an inflammatory statement and not elaborating on it is the most autistic thing on 4chan.
No (you)s for (((you))) , jyou.
>>5161562 (OP)One thing for sure.Both cannot be true. One can be true, the other can be true, both can be false; but not both can be true.
>>5161587this thread is a shitpost but this neighbour thread isnt>>5161475 go comment the same there hypocrite
>>5161562 (OP)Well yeah, duh.
>>5161663lmao, christcucks on life support
>>5161641I’m a hypocrite because I don’t have time to sage and complain every time someone makes a shitpost? How much time do you have on your hands?
>>5161663>>5161672Yeah, because Islam kills apostates, you inbreds
>>5161729>>5161729 >I’m a hypocrite because I don’t have time to sage and complain every time someone makes a shitpost? yes, because of two neighbour threads you chose this one, coincidence or personal bias?>How much time do you have on your hands?lots
>>5161747not islam in western countries
>>5161750Even if it was personal bias, (it’s not, I actually hate communism far more than I could ever hate Islam) what the fuck does it change? This was a shitty thread
>>5161663>ProjectionsOkay
>>5161562 (OP)No Abrahamic religion makes a lick of sense but at least Islam puts women in their place, unlike Christians who fucking emancipated them
>>5161770yes it was
>>5161791>No Abrahamic religion makes a lick of sense/thread
>>5161663Damn, Christianity has by far the highest conversion rate, it's a shame the West is abandoning it or else it would be crushing the Muzzies.
>>5161562 (OP)
>>5161816
>>5161816>>5161819no philosophical arguments, just /pol/ infographics
>>5161836>it’s not an argument because it’s formatted as an imageYou’re brain dead
>>5161836Why do Muslims always dismiss their opponents arguments rather than engage in debate?
>>5161836Every time this pic gets posted a butthurt Mudshit posts>NO ARGUMENTS REEEyet doesn't provide his own
>>5161851it is literally a superficial assault on islam uncapabke of rocking its ideollogical core, christianity can literally be destroyed from the core up by simple philosophically correct phrases while youll have a harder time doing that with islam
>>5161562 (OP)I find islam pretty depressing.
>>5161861the problem is that the christians in that thread are arguing against the supposed barbarity of islam, not against its philosophy
>>5161863And what the fuck does have to do with anything? It doesn’t matter how philosophically sounds Islam is if that anon can absolutely tear it apart with nothing but historical anecdotes.
>>5161870The second image tells you why the Quran is silly
>>5161863>christianity can literally be destroyed from the core upProve it
>>5161872hes just arguing against the supposed peacefulness of islam, which he did very well, while real muslims know that Muhammad tried to show the way of god to blind fools either by force or by peaceful means, only retards deny this, he could not shake the fundamentals of islam with his arguments
>>5161878why did a god kill himself for himself to save humanity from himself?>>5161873he just argues against the strictness of islam
>>5161885>why did a god kill himself for himself to save humanity from himself?He wasn't saving humanity from himself, he was protecting humanity from the wages of sin, which is death.
>>5161889who sets what sin is and isnt?
>>5161885Read this section, and many more like it
>>5161894God's nature.
>>5161897literally doesent disprove islam in the slightest, the essence of the word of god stays the same, while the bible is literally filled with inconsistencies
>>5161900and from where do you have any idea what god's nature is?
>>5161908From the Word of God, and from Jesus.
>>5161905Then how do we know that the version which we have is the real one?>the bible is literally filled with inconsistenciesAnd you think the Quran isn't?>inb4 MUH ABROGATIONLiterally the funniest thing ever
>>5161858It's a house of cards, and they know it. Islam is only persuasive if there's a knife at your throat.
>>5161913and from where do you know what word of god is?
>>5161897There are also known variants of the "original" quran that were not collected and destroyed, and whose owners were not murdered.Wow, Islam really is Roman Catholicism.
>>5161926From the church and Christ's followers.
>>5161928those variants may only be the infilitration of shirk into god's word, whats in the quran is the whole truth
>>5161562 (OP)Like in what way?From an Ethic perspective it has basically the structure of ghetto gangs. With one rich alpha dog (Muhamad) and his bitch dogs (muslims).They rob shit and kill other gangs (The stories of Koran).So it has kinda zero relation to Christianity which is a protest movement to the pharisees iof the time back than.From a religious perspective. Christianity builds directly on top of the old testament seeing in Jesus the promised son of god (messiah) from the prophecies. It directly connects from Judaism into Christianity abondoning the rules of the Torah through making a new bond with god through the sacrifice of christ to release the sin of Mankind.Islam somehow copies Judaism with its rules and scholars. But doesn't really take the more complicated aspects. Also the Texts from the Torah seem quite simplyfied in the Koran. It sees itself as Abrahamitic but doesn't really build sufficiently on the Old testament (Torah) rather creates its own story.
>>5161930and who are those individuals specifically and from where do they get their doctrine of jesus and the word of god?
>>5161933How do we know that the Quran you follow isn't the real shirk infiltrating god's word?
>>5161937There is no individuals, its the collective body of the church as a whole, and they get their doctrines and Word of God from His scriptures, all translated and compiled together in the Bible.
>>5161936thats because indeed islam is only a modified version of ancient laws an practices that was drastically revamped by Muhammad the latest (out of many previous) prophets
>>5161942but the bible is not considered to be the word of god, is it not? therefore, how can human record of the said word of god unrelated to god itself be in any way considered what the word of god and jesus really are in essence?
>>5161952>but the bible is not considered to be the word of god, is it not?It is considered the Word of God anon. If you don't understand that then you don't understand Christianity on a fundamental basis.
>>5161938because shirk isnt present in the current quran, therefore it is indeed the correct word of one GOD
>>5161954im afraid that case can only be made for the old testament
>>5161969The New Testament is the Word of God as well. Once again, this is very basic Christian stuff.
>>5161943The main difference is that Christian see in god a good being that wants people to be happy.In Islam it seem that Allah rather is like a punisher who wants you to do his shit or suffer.So when christians think of god they think of all the beauty of life and the world. When muslims think of Allah they think of devotion and servitude.I think it's like this because of the founding figure. Jesus served others and gave his all to others. So Christians expect god to do them good and give them happyness in life.Mohamad didn't serve anyone and expected everyone to be his willless servant. So muslims don't ask of good or bad but just act like serves to their master (allah).
>>5161943>Mohammad>prophetPick one.
>>5161962What a stupid argument, and the saddest part is that I don't think you even realize>How do you know you don't have shirk in the Quran?>Because there isn't shirk in the Quran?>And how do you know that?>Because the possibly shirked Quran defines shirk
>>5161952It's not unrelated to God. The Holy Spirit of God inspired all of the 40ish writers of the 66 books of the bible over 1500 years.Jesus, the Logos, is also called The Word of God in the Revelation of Jesus Christ.Mohammad was wrong about Jesus, and that means Mohammad will spend eternity in hellfire.Stop following Mohammad.
>>5161975>the new testament is word of god tooexcept this is never claimed to be so, it is at most claimed to be inspired by god>For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty…. We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto you do well that you take heed, as unto a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your heart… Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation… For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Ghost(2 Pet.1:16-21).learn your religion first then come to debate mind
>>5161984there are other historical sources that define what shirk was to early muslims
>>5161996All that verse is saying is that we see God not only in scripture but also in the miracles we see every day in the Church.
>>5161977the christians often excused god's works in the old testament to commit torture and murder
>>5161933Not a variant. A different book. One not ordered destroyed by the next warlord in charge.Your life is based on lies.
>>5162006the key is the very last phrase, my friend
>>5162002And how do you know they weren't shirked too?
>>5161969The New Testament is also scripture, whether you like it or not. And it contains the last of the divinely inspired works of God.The demonic quran was 500 years later.
>>5161996>except this is never claimed to be so, it is at most claimed to be inspired by godThe Revelation of Jesus Christ As God.
>>5162011Yes, that last phrase confirms that scripture is the the Word of God, for they were moved by the Holy Ghost, aka God himself.
>>5162007>oftenTorture was rather normal until the development of the modern world and wasn't seen as wrong doing until like 50 years ago. There was no reason to justify this.
>>5162010if what you say is true, the influence of polytheism on the quran and islam would have stayed in a form, they actually did in the original quran so to speak and are considered shaytan's corruptions
>>5162017no it doesnt, it confirms inspiration
>>5162016thats unrelated to the claim that the bible is fully the word of god
>stick to these rules or burn in hell foreveryeah makes sense
>>5162014>And it contains the last of the divinely inspired works of God.according to you and christians that is so, while the quran realizes the inconsistencies in the said text and dismisses those as corruption in the interpretation of jesus the prophets words, rightly so might i add
>>5162025If Shaitan corrupted the quran, the only claim of islam to legitimacy is gone.
>>5162026No, it doesn't say anything about inspiration. It says they were literally moved by God, not inspired.
>>5162032No, it is not.Paul's letter to Timothy, and Peter's endorsement of Paul's writings, and the Revelation of Jesus Christ, are divinely inspired.Christians don't say the OT was not divinely inspired.Curiously, the muslims never say that the entire bible was nothing but the Word of God.Then as it contradicts islam, it is said to have "been corrupted", yet without evidence.
>>5162044the inconsistencies are in the quran. Just look at how many ways Adam was created, and from what, and when.
>>5162054Inspired by God means God breathed.God breathed, and a clay statue became a living being, Adam.God spoke, and the universe came into existence.It is no small thing to say inspired by God.
>>5162055>Christians don't say the OT was not divinely inspired.read my posts again, i was talking about NT
>>5162054moved doesnt mean spoken by god
>>5162062So then clearly if its inspired and God breathed then it must be the Word of God.
>>5162045it "maybe" corrupted a small part of it this is disputed even, do you rally think god would allow his prophet's words to become distorted by satan???
>>5162064No, but it does mean it is God's Word.
>>5162063Yes, you made a false claim that only the OT was inspired, as though someone challenged it.The Jews, Christians and Muslims all state that the OT was inspired by God.The Jews and the Muslims do not have the Son, and do not therefor have the Father.Don't follow Mohammad to hell. Jesus really is God, really did get crucified, and really did rise from the dead.Not only does nothing in the NT contradict anything in the OT, which is humanly impossible, but the NT brings into focus things foreshadowed in the OT, namely the identity of the Messiah.Again, something the quran agrees to, that Jesus is the Messiah.They just don't know what the word means.
>>5162070Yup. And coming true in today's newspaper headlines.
>>5162070how can inspiration equal speaking said words for the apostoles to write them, there is no claim for this, god could have well spoken to them metaphysically, which is the only defence you got, but this doesnt hold foundation
>>5162073Does God allow satan's existence?
>>5162075that is a very very big false equivalence
Some other differences that I see is that while the bible is pretty much well preserved in its orginal form.The Quran on ther otherhand underwend many stages and only a single version of it survived that on top isn't even understandable by itself since it's just wild thrown phrases all over. You need hadits to understand each phrase which itself is a massive collection of historical documents of which many don't even have any provable historical roots. Through the time all iind of people put their own hadith to force their will on all the muslims.
>>5162088If the Holy Spirit moved them to write down the scriptures then the scriptures are God's word.
>>5162081jesus is indeed a great individual , the problem is his divine words were corrupted by human errorhttps://infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/contradictions.html
>>5162088You'll never understand the Word of God until you understand that we were created to collaborate with God, not be God's transcriptionists.
>>5162097If Jesus is divine, tell me; how did men corrupt his nature?
>>5162088>that is a very very big false equivalenceIt's not.The holy spirit is the direct power of god that can go through you.People were able to make impossible things with this power. People who wrote the bible where doing it as the consequents of this power therefore in direct consequence of god's will.If he doesn't want them to write down his words they wouldn't have given the power through the holy ghost.
>>5162085this is a metaphysical question also but no, satan is tolerated as a test of human love for God, satan cannot overpower god, nor any other being for that matter
>>5162097GE 1:3-5 On the first day, God created light, then separated light and darkness. GE 1:14-19 The sun (which separates night and day) wasn't created until the fourth day.God is light. God created light. God put light into the sun. God does not need a sun to cause light to be.That's just the first one. If you have one you think is actually difficult to reconcile, post it.
>>5162112Then the works of satan are also temporarily tolerated in order for mankind to express his sovereignty and agency, aren't they.
>Word of God assuming that this "God" was actually God and not some kind of autistic retard
>>5162109>>5162106>>5162104>>5162091the Word pf God cannot be word pf God unless spoken by Him, anything else is e.g. Matthew's words (maybe) inspired by God
>>5162097GE 1:11-12, 26-27 Trees were created before man was created. GE 2:4-9 Man was created before trees were created.Two accounts of creation; the first is God's from before the beginning, and the second is Adam's.The first is what God created all over the world; the second is what Adam saw created in the Garden of Eden.
>>5162097Also this is an interesting aspect.While the bible ramained unchanges since its formation.The Quran went through way more human hands being entirely open to any forms of corruption. Since it was just told before it was written down. Of which many version where told and written down of which only one version survived until today.This sounds to me like direct act of human corrupting things.You don't have such a story with the bible.There is much less space to interpret a corruption.
>>5162121Jesus is the Word of God.
>>5162121>the Word of God cannot be word of God unless spoken by HimThey were spoken by Him through his followers using the Holy Ghost.
>>5162114i dont agree with this, we too believe light was the first created
>>5162121Gods word is mroe than just our mere human language.Allah is just Muhamad tricking you into letting him fuck your wife. That's why expect Allah to have a human nature and a human language as his word. Muhamad had all this.
>>5161562 (OP)I was a Muslim for years and actually got married to a Muslim girl in Turkey about 5 years ago. I eventually left Islam and became a Christian because of what the Qur'an says about Christians. The Qur'an doesn't even know what the trinity is. The Qur'an says Jesus didn't even get crucified but God made it appear so... Ultimately creating the largest religion in the world which Muslims believe today to be false. Denying the fact that Jesus was crucified as documented by 1st century Jewish and Roman historians to me was insane. The Qur'an states that the books revealed before (Torah and Gospel) ... That which is between their hands (implying possession of such books in the 7th century) is guidance and light and that Muslims should ask the people of the book. We have manuscripts much earlier than the 7th century... Just a fact. That being the case we can easily see the Bibles of Muhammad's time didn't predict his coming as he claimed and of course contains the crucifixion of Jesus. The Qur'an itself doesn't say the Bible was changed, rather the interpretation of it. That being the case there's just too many problems with the Qur'an for me... Let's not get started on the ahadith...
>>5162142>The Qur'an doesn't even know what the trinity isDoesn't the Quran say that the Trinity consists of Jesus, the Father, and Mary?
>>5162142What happened to your wife?
>>5162132He is speaking through me right now and He says: "Stop believing in a bullshit that is Christianity and start to utilize critical thinking."
>>5162128how do you know whats written in the bible is true in the first place if it was not uttered by god, maybe satan inspired them, how do you know it was god who inspired them, because some men wrote so? while in the quran almost if not everything is the literal word of god this isnt so in the bible
>>5162150Yes it does
>>5162150That's not the trinity but that's what c*tholics worship
>>5162152not me the muslim btw
>>5162151She was upset for a little bit until she learned about the Gospel and read the Bible ... She became Christians too and we're still happily married.
>>5162142i can present you many more christians who have done the same for islam, the problem is that the prophet was sent by God because His first words were corrupted, otherwise if all was well, no Islam, no Muhammad would happen
>>5161663Damn, we're on the brink of utopia. Feels good to be living in this period of history.
>>5162154Nothing in the Quran is the literal word of god.It's was spoken to Muhamad who spoke it to his followers who spoke it to their followes who spoke it to.....And then it was written down.In the old testament their are prophets and direct words of god.In the new testament there is the direct wittness of god through his son that many thousands of people witnessed.
>>5162154Look up the satanic verses of the Qur'an. The Bible claims men were inspired by God and moved by the Holy Spirit. Much more dynamic than Muhammad who actually didn't receive revelation but received it from an angel who he thought possessed him at the beginning of his revelation. Still not direct. How do we known it was actually Gabriel and how do we know it was actually Allah's word and the angel wasn't making it up? We can play the same game.
>>5162142>The Qur'an doesn't even know what the trinity is. it is a polytheistic concept disguised as monotheism
>>5162171To add to this. Nobody besides Mohamad got to hear god.All people around got to see christs divinity.
>>5162175Even if you believe that it still gets the trinity objectively wrong.
>>5162158Yeah, sorry. I just used you to make an example.
>>5162167Many more? Not an argument. You don't have delil saying what you said. The historical argument is that Jesus was only sent to the Jews etc and Muhammad was sent to the whole world... Otherwise the Qur'an wouldn't attest the validity of the Bible... Which it does.
>>5162160I am glad to hear lad.I am happy your marriage survived such a change.
>>5162175How so? The Torah clearly talks about God's Spirit, his Word, and Himself i.e. the Father... Yet all of them are distinct yet the very God of Abraham. Hmm... What if the very expression of God became flesh and dwelt among men? Similar to how the very word of God is expressed in the form of a book called the Qur'an. Is the Qur'an created (makhluq)? Why not?
>>5162173because of the correctness of the quran, it is not an evil book despite you christians claiming it to be so, the wars of conquest are what God said tho Muhammad to do (like he "inspired" the christians to do) which they eventually did with more brutality than the prophets descendants
>>5162198Because the Q'uran kills the old book by just being very different.You would have to accept that either not all parts of the Quran are right or that the Bible is wrong in like most parts.Or there is a higher understanding that no human grasps. What means that we all are wrong.
>>5162198the quran is the literal word of god, it is nothing less nothing more, neither is the bible fully the litrral word of god neither is the concept of the trinity a monotheistic concept since it splits (in any way) the oneness of God
>>5162201God didn't tell us to conquer anything.Where the fuck do you take this from?
>>5162201I don't believe the Qur'an is an evil book, I just believes it's inaccurate regarding Christian faith.
>>5162215christians often used bible verses to excuse their baltic crusades and pagan massacres
>>5162201>with more brutalityLook at ISIS. They take children as sex slaves.How is that not brutal?It's actually what was done in the Quran by Muhamad and his men.There was this part where they had captured that married women and the men didn't know if it was a sin to gangrape her. Muhamad told them "that it doesn't matter" and so they gangraped that married woman. (note: "Even as seen as very wrong gangrapes are still very widespread among the muslim world")
>>5162226Like which one?I don't think that you really understand how that works.
>>5162139Then you agree that God can divide the light without a sun.Or you found something Gop cannot do.Take your pick.
>>5162142That particular sura, that Jesus did not die, was not crucified, and did not rise from the dead, is at the heart of islam and what makes islam a cult.
>>5162213Right, staying your presupposition isn't going to help you here. Saying the Qur'an is the word of God without explaining isn't really making an argument. The Qur'an came through a mediator i.e. Gabriel. We claim the Bible came through the very Holy Spirit itself. Which one is superior? Is the Holy Spirit not effective enough? The concept of the trinity is monotheistic yet even if it wasn't the Qur'an doesn't understand the doctrine to begin with. Stop saying 3 and then saying it's Father Son and Mary is absurd. In the 7th century the Church had a very well formed christology that had already hashed out the trinity for hundreds of years at that point. Completely understandable that a 7th century Beduin wouldn't have a full understanding of the trinity considering some Christians are lazy in this regard and take it for granted themselves. I do however hold God to a higher standard... If the Qur'an was the literal word of God as you stated we would see a valid argument against Christianity...
>>5162157Likely where the muslims picked it up, as neither Catholic nor muslim has ever met the Holy Spirit, nor knows what He does.
>>5162232the OT ones about the tribe of israel battles, notice how the brutality of christians is often ignored while muslims always get shit for their supposed brutality (even though they were welcomed as liberators from the oppressive byzantine christians)
>>5162167No, you really cannot. As in, it would literally be impossible for a born again Christian to become a hellbound muslim.He would only be a deceived born again Christian, very immature in his spiritual knowledge, and likely doing it for the love of a woman.In such a way was Solomon the Wise brought down.
>>5162250Catholics. The brutality of Catholics.As a Christian, I'm tired of being lumped in with people who murdered tens of millions of my people.
>>5162244>against christianitymuslims arent against christ in any way, just against his divinity>>5162244if the holy spirit is god, and the son is god and the father is god there is absolutely no need for distinction of the terms in amy way
>>5162252I think that's key here. People that consider themselves Christians in name and people that have been born again are two different things. For a learned Christian Islam literally has nothing to offer. God is just "meh" about sin as long as you ask him.
>>5162252>supposedthats ypur opinion, while conversions happened en masse in bosnia, albania, india, indonesia, today im the west, while only some spaniards converted back tp christianity after the reconquista, islam is the fastest growing religion
>>5162254whatever, then tame your christian "brothers"
>>5162250Brutality is judged in the modern world where all the people can get to see the truth of violence and of course after humanism made people sensible to this.The difference is that Islam does the shit of old days right now. while christians simply don't.Times change. That's what you ignore. You also can't everytime you got destroyed in an argumant start renting about lol christians did thids that's why I can do that blah blah. That's just a childish falacy that simply doesn't belong in a discussion of people above the age of 5 years.>>5162254>Muh 10 gorrlionsPlease the war killed a third of my countries population. People got to suffer enough and have forgiven each other hundreds of years ago.>the OT ones about the tribe of israel battlesThose have nothing to do with Christian lithurgy to justify crusades. Like I told you have no idea how that works.
>>5162277except you havent proved neither that the trinity is a monotheistic concept and neither that the bible is the word of god, and it is widely known that christians have a double standard concerning religion which is noticeable in every debate and you call this btfo
>>5162259You cannot deny the Gospel and then say you're not against Christ. What does Christ mean? What is the Jewish context? What does Isaiah 53 say the Christ will do?I think you're missing the point on the trinity. This was originally a discussion on how the Qur'an doesn't understand the doctrine. However, the Christian position is that there is 1 God. Period. You can try to work around it as much as possible but then don't complain when Christians try to distort Muslim beliefs. Is the Word of Allah i.e. the Qur'an created? Why not? What impact does that have on your argument? It's the uncreated word of God which we believe became flesh... You believe became a book.
>>5162286No offense but I don't get the feeling you're really interested in learning about the trinity and are set in your ways. There have been a lot of questions in responses to the other side that are just ignored.
>>5162277Those have nothing to do with Christian lithurgy to justify crusades. Like I told you have no idea how that works.>He continues: "the most likely inspiration for the mass execution of Verden was the Bible", Charlemagne desiring "to act like a true King of Israel", citing the biblical tale of the total extermination of the Amalekites and the conquest of the Moabites by David. next time learn history when spewing half-truths
>>5162287the god may be one but you christians split his concsience in three, that is disguised polytheism
>>5162286You quote the wring person.There is no prove in a scientific manner for any of those claims. Since no scripture is in any way on scientific standards. The Quran way less than the bible in this regards.But still Chirstians see the three expression of god. The Father (God himself in heaven) the son (god became flesh as Jesus) and the holy spirit (Gods effect on the people).It's the same being. So it can't be polytheistic which is about believen in many or at least two dieties.What double standard. Only god can prove himself.
>>5162300Thank you for agreeing that the God of Christianity is one God.
>>5162304i never denied it, thats why i said disguised polytheism, God is ONE in ALL aspects
>>5162294Give me the source on this.Also this is not a crusade. It's just a King taking inspiration for himself from the glorious figures of the history known to him.Crusades have entirely different justification that actually derives directly from the christianity works.
>>5162309What exactly is your argument? After explaining the trinity it seems you don't really care to think about it... Does God have a Spirit?Does God have an expression or word?If so what does that mean?
>>5162302>But still Chirstians see the three expression of god. The Father (God himself in heaven) the son (god became flesh as Jesus) and the holy spirit (Gods effect on the people).It's the same being. So it can't be polytheisticfirst, those concepts are very arbotrary concepts which you christians have fought over before your ancestors even became christians,second, the being is the same only of his energy and conscience are the same, any form of fracturalization of this is insulting him, jesus was not the son of god, neither some form of God himself, this is literally platonism for the masses
>>5162294A time in early medieval ages is also kinda a bad example for christianity of today.The times back then are kinda 1200 years ago.How can you judge christianity reduced on something that is 1200 years ago? That's how the world of back then was. There were people way more gruesome.The reason we judge hard on the muslim world is because this level of gruesomness happens today. Not in a time where such stuff was pretty normal and common but in the modern world where such stuff got abondened long ago.There are nearly no other groups on the Planet (except for some african rebels) that commit ISIS or Boko Haram tier shit.
>>5162316god has a spirit a supernatural one spirit, god is inconcevable to humans, thats why he sents messengers to deliver his words, this is why jesus cannot be the son of god
>>5162326the only reason christoanity has advanced bacause it has taken in some untraditional concepts, do you think acient christians wouldnt cringe when they saw christianity today? while 7th century muslims would cringe considerably less to modern muslims
>>5162325What is fractured there.It isn't that anyone alive got to see the face of god.The trinity is the three ways we got to experience the presence of god.You just understand it wrong.
>>5162334So is God and His Spirit the same thing? Is God and his Word the same thing? So the Qur'an IS God? If not how could the uncreated word of God not be God?Yes God sends messengers but that's not the point. What are the messengers carrying? The uncreated word of God. Hmm... If the uncreated word can be sent down to a messenger why can that same word not become flesh? Why is Jesus called the word of Allah in the Qur'an? What is the Holy Spirit in the Qur'an? Why do the authors of the Tafsirs say it's Gabriel? Because it would have huge implications.
>>5162312>sourcemassacre at verden wiki >crisades have different justificationswhat justification other than violence (which gets attributed to muslims all the time) did they have, what justificstion did inquisitions and torture have?
>>5162346I rather thing they would be baffled by the modern world and see most technolgies as somthing magic or shit.How ever you're right Muslims wouldn't really have anything to baffle over since you still live like medieval people and don't really know technology.
>>5162356Search and find out.Not gonna spoon feed your prejudice.
>>5162325The very same way I can say that Islam entirely has nothing to do with god and is just the cult of mohamad the PIMP.
>>5162355So is God and His Spirit the same thing? >Is God and his Word the same thing? So the Qur'an IS God? If not how could the uncreated word of God not be God?god can be anything he likes, the only thing he cannot be is split within himself by himself which is metaphysically impossible because he clearly calls himself one in every aspect
>>5162326No need to even accept Roman Catholic violence as Christian. Bible believing Christians were slaughtered by Catholics for over 1,000 years.
>>5162365are you excusing the inquisition as not brutal are you justifying baltic crusades as necessary while at the same time scolding Muhammad and his descendants?
>>5162371we can say the same about jesus
>>5162372You're still not thinking about this here. How is God split when you acknowledge God had a Spirit and a Word? Even from a Muslim perspective what does that mean and imply? Your logic here also goes against the Qur'an not being makhluq ... Just a heads up as a former Muslim.
Other differences I see between Muslims and Chirstians in such debates is how well read and well formed argumants christians have for their point and how muslim arguments if even an argument are full of insults wild accusation and christians did this and that while entirely ignoring their own faults like ISIS or Boko Haram or Saudi Arabia or Wahabism and many more shit is non existent and undiscusable.
>>5162360while muslims had a golden age (which christians deny lmao) you were eliving in squalor, it is by the will of God that this is now reverse, but dont say that westerners live a fulfilling and good life
>>5162380How was Jesus some Ghetto PIMP?Dude ran around helping people not robbing and killing them with some gangrape action on children sexslaves.
>>5162378Has nothing to do with the Gospel, try again. Roman Catholics have killed Christians for centuries... Doesn't really make sense to say even remotely encouraged in the Gospel.
>>5162388I'm in the west and I live a great life. I go to work and support my family and have the freedom to live my religion to the fullest. I see plenty of Muslims here that love being here and don't have any problems. That wouldn't be a good narrative though right?
>>5162382God cannot be makhluq, he can become whatever he likes, but he cannot divide himself because he exists as one in mind body spirit universe sea sand etc. while jesus (according to historical sources) can only be created and not God himself
>>5162384where did i insult, dont misquote please?
>>5162384At least in the US there's a huge movement of Christian apologists that study Islam faithfully. Most Muslims I met in Turkey had absolutely no idea what the message of the Gospel was yet they could tell you it was wrong.
>>5162388Well our golden age has been going like since 500 years.And the life here is uncomparably awesome. Fulffilment on the other hand is something on can find in Christ.Also here the eternal argument Christians these Christians that. You don't have to follow this Wahabi narrative. We are not competitors. It's your ruling people making us to enemies because they take the massive profit from your misery. Not we are your Enemy. We are the picture that could be you if you ever adress sour issues and start solving problems insteed of screaming "Muh christians" at everything and everyone.
>>5162391thats not the point, the point is that christianity is a cult of jesus first and religion believing in god second >inb4 jesus is god
>>5162412i agree, but dont think christians are blameless in their hate for muslims, especially americans, otherwise i agree
>>5162406I agree, God cannot be created which is why the Bible says Jesus was not created. Your logic is flawed, you have not represented your side faithfully in that the uncreated word of God i.e. the Qur'an is not created yet distinct from Allah himself. If the very Word of God says Jesus is not created why believe he can "only be created"? His body? Yes. We don't believe Jesus existed in the form of a man in the beginning of time. But God's Word has always existed.
>>5162410the turks often corrupt islam for other purposes (erdogan) like christians do too (putin, trump)
>>5162414>>inb4 jesus is godLiteraly god himself came over to show you the path and you call him human denying god his godness.>>5162421I don't hate any muslim. On the very opposite. I really wish we can have some real understanding of each other. And a harmony maybe even a symbiosis of our ways.The world would be such a better place. Like anyone enjoys the endless shit they do to themselves.
>>5162426I'm talking about the Qur'an and the Bible not whatever you're talking about.
>>5162422the problem is that christ is nothing without the body and you even worship his body in prayer, therefore he is created, christ cannot be chrisg wothout the body of christ
>>5162414>christianity is a cult of jesus first and religion believing in god secondJesus is God. This is why arguing with Muslims is so frustrating, you don't know our religion yet you make wild unsubstantiated claims about what you don't know.
>>5162434yes, and im talking about the turks
>>5162442What you're saying makes no sense you're just making stuff up... I recommend reading the above posts where specific questions were asked and actually taking a break and thinking about them.
>>5162426>trumpWhere the fuck does Trump relate to christianity in any way?>PutinYou just can't acknowledge that there is something wrong with you without throwing senseless shit about some others. Stop being such a fucking child.
Muslims are extremely retarded to follow a book which has a documented mathematical error but tell themselves that God meant to include the mathematical error intentionally so that muslim scholars could come up with a patch to fix it after muhammad died.In quran 4:11-4:12 it gives the instructions for how to divide up a man's estate when he dies.>Allah instructs you concerning your children: for the male, what is equal to the share of two females. But if there are [only] daughters, two or more, for them is two thirds of one's estate. And if there is only one, for her is half. And for one's parents, to each one of them is a sixth of his estate if he left children. But if he had no children and the parents [alone] inherit from him, then for his mother is one third. And if he had brothers [or sisters], for his mother is a sixth, after any bequest he [may have] made or debt. Your parents or your children - you know not which of them are nearest to you in benefit. [These shares are] an obligation [imposed] by Allah . Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise.>And for you is half of what your wives leave if they have no child. But if they have a child, for you is one fourth of what they leave, after any bequest they [may have] made or debt. And for the wives is one fourth if you leave no child. But if you leave a child, then for them is an eighth of what you leave, after any bequest you [may have] made or debt. So for a man who dies and leaves behind 2 daughters, a wife , a mother and a father the quran instructs>2/3 to the daughters>1/6 to the mother>1/6 to the fatherat this point 100% of the estate has been given away. there is nothing more that can be given away. Yet the quran instructs, impossibly, to also give>1/8 to the wifeand thus tells you to give away 9/8 or 112.5% of the estate away. Which is as impossible as having a pizza and giving half the pizza to person A , half the pizza to person B and half the pizza to person C.What a retarded religion.
>>5162443>Jesus is Goddoes god adress himself so often, does he kill himself (how is this possible), does he resurrect himself, does he give birth to himself??? or do you admit he is a separate entity in a way
>>5162452putin and trump use christianity to further their own agenda in the general populace, erdogan too uses this populism with muslims, dont call people children when you yourself are as naive as one
>>5162459>does god adress himself so oftenYes>does he kill himselfNo>does he resurrect himselfYes>does he give birth to himselfHe puts himself in Mary, but Mary isn't God, the baby Jesus inside her was God
>>5162459God doesn't kill himself.When will you stop with this bullshit.Read first on that matter. How can you even enter a discussion without knowing what you're talking about.Look: >>5162454Dude is rude as fuck but at least he has something you don't. It's called he informed himself before talking.
>>5162465>putin and trumpLike in what? First time I heared of this?Don't tell me to be anti-abortion because of Christianity is "Own Agenda".
>>5162454>and thus tells you to give away 9/8 or 112.5% of the estate away. Which is as impossible as having a pizza and giving half the pizza to person A , half the pizza to person B and half the pizza to person C.A firm handshake is all you need to do this, son
>>5162459God is a supernatural triune spirit being who dwells in unapproachable light. God manifested himself as Father, Son and Holy Spirit so that we might get to know him a little bit, at least enough to know if we want to know him fully, be adopted into his family, and collaborate with him in his creation.As God is an n-dimensional spirit being who can literally speak a universe into existence, perhaps our ability to understand and comprehend him has to come from him.Maybe it's beyond human understanding.But maybe he'll tell you, if you consent, why the Son came to die to satisfy the Father's holiness, justice, and righteousness for humanity's betrayal and lawlessness, and how the Father once satisfied in his grace and mercy offers humanity salvation, the free gift of himself, to all who believe Jesus is who he says he is.The Christ, the Son of the Living God.And then you'll know who the Holyl Spirit is, that manifestation and person of the godhead sent to mankind to give us spiritual discernment so that we can know the mind of God, the will of God, and the purpose of God.And of ourselves.
>>5162478It's best not to enter into deals with people who do not understand simple math.
>>5162469>God doesn't kill himself.When will you stop with this bullshit.Read first on that matter. How can you even enter a discussion without knowing what you're talking about.God cannot be killed by any being
>>5162442Maybe this will help.In the beginning, Jesus said "Light, Be!" and light was.
>>5162487>God cannot be killed by any beingWell Jesus ain't dead so.........
>>5162487Can the only begotten Son of God dismiss his spirit, and die?
>>5162471http://theconversation.com/vladimir-putin-and-donald-trumps-great-success-in-exploiting-the-rise-of-nationalist-christianity-92963
>>5162491He got crucifiedWent to the world of the deadReseructed on the third dayWent to heaven
>>5162502Yup.
>>5162501Wow some online click bait.That's really the shit to trust.Lool. Here I have an asorted twitter click bait collection that just says absolutly everything I stand for in a onsided and uncritical way.
>>5162495>>5162491jesus suffered on the cross, God cannot suffer, God cannot resurrect because he didnt die to need resurrection, god cannot be born because he is eternal, jesus cannot be God
>>5162491Not today, no. He rose from the dead in his resurrection body, never to die again.Same sort of eternal body he offers anyone who wants one.Your meat puppet will die; you will never cease to exist. You will live eternally in a resurrection body of your choice. And God will honor your choice.
>>5162513>God cannot sufferYes he can.>God cannot resurrect because he didnt die to need resurrectionYes he can and did.>God cannot be born because he is eternalThe flesh was born, but God existed before being born.
>>5162513I'm not sure why people like you think you have the power to say what is, and what is not.That seems to me to be a power only God would have.Are you God?
>>5162512you deny that putin is supported by right wing christians and trump too? then i can say erdogan is supported by liberal atheistic turks
>>5162526As he is in the process of forming and leading a Caliphate, your argument would fall on deaf ears.
>>5162513How do you kow what god can and what not.God literally can do everything.Because he's almighty.You don't know this because you're god is a human called muhamad and you're his bitch.
>>5162523>God cannot resurrect because he didnt die to need resurrection>Yes he can and did.that would imply the absence of god, which is impossible
>>5162527his caliphate is nationalism caliphate
>>5162527was the failed coup the last straw? is ataturk's vision dead now?
>>5162513"Seeking Allah, Finding Jesus" by the late Nabeel Qureshi.Highly recommend.
>>5162535He seeks to exert influence over the entire middle east.I have an advantage that you do not have. I know where Magog is, and I know what the battle of Ezekiel 38 is.
>>5162469I bet you're still going to follow your retarded and obviously false and made-up religion despite it clearly having a simple error revealing that it was made up by a human who could not add up fractions or forgot to consider families with only daughters.Do you really think God would include such a simple and obvious mathematical mistake in a book which he challenges people to try and find a mistake in?4:82>Then do they not reflect upon the Qur'an? If it had been from [any] other than Allah, they would have found within it much contradiction.This is meant to be his final direct message to mankind through his final prophet yet he includes instructions for mankind to follow that are mathematically impossible to follow?Is God meant to be as stupid, careless and imperfect as a novice programmer? Is he even more error-prone and unable to proof-read than we are?Come on use your brain. Islam is a man-made religion. There are also a tonne of claims in the quran and hadith that are totally contradicted by science, like the idea shooting stars are really holy missiles fired by angels at djinni who are trying to eavesdrop on heaven.If you're going to believe that despite science showing that they're rocks floating through space whose movement is solely due to the force of gravity then you might as well believe that lightening is due to Thor swinging his hammer.Use your brain you stupid fucking muslim retard.Quran 37:6-10>Indeed, We have adorned the nearest heaven with an adornment of stars>And as protection against every rebellious devil>[So] they may not listen to the exalted assembly [of angels] and are pelted from every side,>Repelled; and for them is a constant punishment,>Except one who snatches [some words] by theft, but they are pursued by a burning flame, piercing [in brightness].
>>5162526Well both a conservative politicians and right wing christians are conservative christians (that's what right wing means).Hmmmmm how come conservative people support conservative Politicians.Damn that thought is to difficult to me.Can you tell me where in the Quran it is wrong what ISIS does?
>>5162531God cannot kill himself because that would imply him being stronger than he is, to think that absence of god is possible means that absence of the universe is also possible
>>5162532>that would imply the absence of GodGod was physically dead, but he was never absent. The flesh was dead for 3 days before being resurrected, but the spirit of God never disappeared.
>>5162541Yes, and the coup was a sham.
>>5162546You quoted the wrong Person.I am Christian.
>>5162546>Islam is a man-made religion.As are all religions.Jesus did not come to tear down the sin barrier between man and God in order to create a new religion, but to set men free from religion. Free from trying to be perfect. Free from the laws and punishments, and burdens, that came with our rebellion against him. That came from our insistence that we can use our knowledge of good and evil and be like God.We never could, we never can, and that lie murdered the human race.But for Jesus, we would all be damned.
>>5162548God didn't die. He just went there where the dead go and came back aftewards.
>>5162548>Not being able to understand the difference between the presence and the flesh of GodThis is what you get when you step off the true path of divine redemption.
>>5162548Can Jesus dismiss his spirit, and commend it to the hands of the Father?Or is this another thing that you say God cannot do?
>>5162568That's what happens when you die. You leave the earth and go to another place.
>>5162558>I am Christian.
>>5162547>Can you tell me where in the Quran it is wrong what ISIS does?why do you take self defence and out of context verses, and not those who speak of universal repsect and love it is no different than christianity in this aspect, we have historical records that the byzantines were ruthless oppressors and the invading muslims were seen as liberators, this is a fact
>>5162574Another place that is "Also created by god".Or did the other place was created by something else?Have you been the Polytheist all the time?
>>5162571>>5162569>>5162550god cannot be split into two because that would imply two separate gods, whoch the bible actually does in jesus the god speaking to his father the same god, this is an inconsistency of the bible
>>5162581Another fact would be the absence of any year since its inception that a muslim group was not at war. If the only sure way to paradise is to die in jihad, then continous jihad is the rule, not the exception.And please, keep the "internal struggle" jihad taqiyya to yourself.
>>5162581Well they are many verses permit what ISIS does.Who says those verses about universal respect and love are higher counted than those verses about slavery and rape to war prisoners. About the quote on how many man has muslim horde to be in comparison to its enemies to stand up to arms etc.Who says the one counts more than the other?ISIS says the parts I mentioned are the proper way that's why they do what they do. You say love and respect is the proper way (what is very noble) but on what base.What is the hierarchy. Many things are written.
>>5162589>god cannot be split into twoHe wasn't split in two, the flesh was just dead for a little bit. >>5162589>whoch the Bible actually does in Jesus the God speaking to his Father the same GodJesus says that Him and the Father are one.
Muslims are so stupid that they literally believe in a book that claims that shooting stars are heavenly missiles shot at djinni trying to eavesdrop on heaven even though this is proven totally wrong by science and is clearly just bullshit made up by a man seeking to explain phenomena he didn't understand by making up fairy stories, same with every other religion.quran 67:5>And We have certainly beautified the nearest heaven with stars and have made [from] them what is thrown at the devils and have prepared for them the punishment of the Blaze.Quran 37:6-10>Indeed, We have adorned the nearest heaven with an adornment of stars>And as protection against every rebellious devil>[So] they may not listen to the exalted assembly [of angels] and are pelted from every side,>Repelled; and for them is a constant punishment,>Except one who snatches [some words] by theft, but they are pursued by a burning flame, piercing [in brightness].quran 15:16-18>And We have placed within the heaven great stars and have beautified it for the observers.>And We have protected it from every devil expelled [from the mercy of Allah ]>Except one who steals a hearing and is pursued by a clear burning flame.quran 72:8>And we have sought [to reach] the heaven but found it filled with powerful guards and burning flames.>And we used to sit therein in positions for hearing, but whoever listens now will find a burning flame lying in wait for him.sahih muslim 26:5538> In this process of transmission (the jinn snatches) what he manages to overhear and he carries it to his friends. And when the Angels see the jinn they attack them with meteors. Muslims are genuinely so primitive , unthinking , retarded and superstitious that they believe in a book containing made up , fairytale nonsense like this and consider it more trustworthy than all the scientific evidence of astrophysics.
>>5162583Yes, God created everything that was created, including the dual compartment afterlife, and the eventual confinement vehicle we call hell, the lake of fire, the second death, the outer darkness, etc.Jesus from the third heaven created our two heavens (atmo and space) and the earth, and all of the things in our universe. He also created the Torment side of Hades/Sheol and Gehenna as eternal destinations for people who want nothing to do with God.
>>5162597They made up djinn to cover the gaping hole in their theology that Mohammad received the word of an angel.In the bible, clearly distributed centuries before Mohammad, the devil is described as a fallen angel. And the Father of Lies.So if the devil, an angel, spoke to Mohammad and lied about his name, all of Islam is false.Which is indeed the case.
>>5162590militant jihad is excused in self defence and against paganry (same as baltoc crusade), isis wasnt attacked because it was not legitimate to be attacked by anyone in the first place, it only itself attacked other muslims and christians in ME europe and and elsewhere
>>5162589>god cannot be split into twoNot two seperate entities, two seperate embodiments of one thing. This is more or less the doctrine of the Trinity.
>>5161562 (OP)>literally it's own religious text says anyone who claims to be a prophet after Christ is bullshittingwoah... so this.... is... the power... of islam.
>>5162604This.Islam is literally the word of the devil.
>>5162599From what believe do you come?Are you a mormon?You really have that awesome spacy stuff. Please never develop anything that makes you go full violence for no appearend reason.Stay as cool as you are.
>>5162608And nonstop for 1400 years.
>>5162621I'm a born again Christian developing Cassandra Syndrome as I post.Resignation, not violence, is what I try to avoid.
>>5162631I don't know what a born again christian is.There are so many special snowflake Christians.I am in favour of a collective Chritianity.
>>5161580/thread
>>5162637Jesus told a member of the Sanhedrin that unless a man is born again, he can not enter into the Kingdom of God. That man was as you are; "how can a man be born again? Should I crawl back into my mother's womb?"Jesus told him that he was born of water, in the flesh, from his mother's womb and was therefore a human being.But a man has to be born in both water and the Spirit in order to gain entrance into God's Kingdom.In order for a man to be born again in the Spirit, he must confess with his mouth, that is to say out loud, that Jesus is Lord, and believe in his heart that God raised Jesus from the dead. If a man does that, the Holy Spirit of God enters into him and he is born again, in the Spirit. And the Spirit quickens the man to eternal life, and begins the transformation from spiritually dead human being into a new creation in Christ Jesus.That's what it means to be born again, and it can be found in Romans 10:9-13.
>>5162608Actually Jihad is allowed offensively to spread islam.See quran 9:29>Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.this is what was practiced by the 4 "rightly guided " caliphs and agreed by the scholars of the salaf.The distinguished jurist's primer by Ibn Rushd10.1.7. Section 7: Why wage war? Why wage war? The Muslim jurists agreed that the purpose of fighting the People of the Book, excluding the (Qurayshite) People of the Book and the Christian Arabs, is one of two things: it is either for their conversion to Islam or the payment of jizya. The payment of jizya is because of the words of the Exalted, "Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah or the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah and His Messenger hath forbidden, and follow not the religion of truth, until they pay the tribute readily being brought low". The reliance of the Traveller by al MisriTHE OBJECTIVES OF JIHADo9.8 The caliph (o25) makes war upon Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians (N: provided he has firstinvited them to enter Islam in faith and practice, and if they will not, then invited them to enter the socialorder of Islam by paying the non-Muslim poll tax (jizya, def: o11.4)-which is the significance of theirpaying it, not the money itself-while remaining in their ancestral religions) (O: and the war continues) until they become Muslim or else pay the non-Muslim poll tax (O: in accordance with the word of AllahMost High,"Fight those who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day and who forbid not what Allah and Hismessenger have forbidden-who do not practice the religion of truth, being of those who have been giventhe Book-until they pay the poll tax out of hand
>>5161882The "fundementals" of pisslam are based on complete horseshit just like christfaggotry, your prophet didn't actually receive any "divine messages" he either hallucinated, made shit up or both. Similarly, Jesus never rose from the dead and he never had superpowers either. Your religion is bullshit just as much as christardation is.
>>5162608Offensive jihad is a concept in Sunni Islam and it involves attacking non-Muslims who did nothing to Sunnis and taking over the world to spread the Sunni religion.
>>5162674Your second statement expresses your belief in the first statement.
>>5162660it is allowed in context against those who threaten it thats what those verses are also about, im not saying that islam is blameless of violent expansion but i believe christians have a double standard concerning same violent expansions
>>5162683>taqiyya
>>5162688CATHOLICSNOTCHRISTIANS
>>5162683no, it means spreading religion by the pen and the word if they dont accept thats fine, but it is no secret that if the majority religion becomes islam that we would not rejoice this, dont deny that christians dont or did not have a similar goal with their colonial missionaries
>>5162692russians were orthodox and they expanded well into asia, the english were protestant yet they expanded into america and killed lots of natives
>>5162704the protestants also violently murdered catholics and vice versa
>>5162709we have problems with shias too, but we dont deny they are muslims
>>5162700that we would rejoice it*
>>5161816I love that bit about forbidding drawings. It's one of the thing that redpilled me on how much of a hypocrite muslims are.
>>5161747No it doesn't. That goes against the Quran. 2:256
>>5162736Drawings aren't forbidden. Sulayman had statues in the Quran.
>>5162700Actually if the majority of the world ever becomes muslim, you will be certain that the majority of them are mislead one way or another. 6:116
>>5162803you dont understand the verse, it speaks about the quran being the only guide contrary to majority persuasion it implies the subordinatetion of the individual to the religious dogma instead of the collective's arbitrary rules and laws
>>5162840I'm fairly certain there is a misunderstanding of some sort between us.
>>5162761Nigga, you gonna argue against Sharia?
>>5162688>it is allowed in context against those who threaten itNo, there is no requirement that foreign non-muslims be a threat. that is not the understanding and implementation of the 4 rightly guided caliphs or the scholars of the salaf.again from The reliance of the traveller by al misrio9.9 The caliph fights all other peoples until they become Muslim (O: because they are not a people witha Book, nor honored as such, and are not permitted to settle with paying the poll tax (jizya)) (n: thoughaccording to the Hanafi school, peoples of all other religions, even idol worshippers, are permitted tolive under the protection of the Islamic state if they either become Muslim or agree to pay the poll tax,the sole exceptions to which are apostates from Islam and idol worshippers who are Arabs, neither ofwhom has any choice but becoming Muslim (al-Hidaya sharh Bidaya al-mubtadi' (y21), 6.48-49)).mukhtasar al khiraqi (which reports the rulings of ibn Hanbal, founder of the hanbali school of islamic law)He said: People of the Scripture and Zoroastrians may be fought against without calling them to Islam, because the call has already reached them. Idolaters must be called to Islam before being fought against. People of the Scripture and Zoroastrians are fought against until they either accept Islam or "pay the Jizvah l085 readily being brought low 11 . 1086 Also other disbelievers are fought against till they accept Islam. 1087 Risala by ibn abi zaydChapter 30: On Jihad30.2c Offering a choice between Islam and jizyaThey can either accept Islam or pay the jizya (tax on nonMuslims);if not they are to be foughtHis apparent words mean that they are given a choice betweenthe two at the same time. If they accept one, they are left.Otherwise they are fought. Al-Jawhar describes the call as Islambeing offered to them. If they answer, they are left. If they refuse,then jizya is offered to them, If they refuse, they are fought.
>>5162869What you call "sharia" is an interpretation. The verses are clear.
>>5162877An interpretation by religious authorities, ones more versed in Islamic jurisdiction than you or me
>>5162874>the understanding and implementation of the 4 rightly guided caliphs or the scholars of the salaf.Things nobody cares about. There's a hadith in which a guy, a number of years after the prophet's death, cries and complains that the religion been completely changed, except for a small part of the prayer.
>>5162884which nevertheless did not call for jihad recently afaik
>>5162893I'm not talking about jihad, I'm talking about death to apostates
>>5162685My only belief that informs my opinions about your particular flavor of abrahamic nonsense is one supported by the rational and sensible observation that magic doesn't exist. That includes so called "divine messages", by the way.
>>5162884>religious authoritiesJust reading that rustles my jimmies. You have no idea what you're talking about.
>>5162897There's no such thing. Every human is born a muslim (30:30). So it can't speak of free acceptance of the religion. It speaks of freely leaving it.
>>5162910You mongoloid, are you high or something? There's no such thing as an apostate?
>>5162897there is no consesus on the death to apostates rule because there is no consensus on what apostasy exactly means but most agree that death is the proscribed punishment for leaving the religion willingly, some scholars hesitate in using the death penalty on muslim converts that apostatise but they agree on using it on born muslims
>>5162913There's no such thing as death for apostates. You excrescence of beer bottles.
>>5162916>but they agree on using it on born muslimsWhich shows how utterly mislead they are since according to the Quran everyone's born muslim. They should barely be listened to actually.
>>5162922Truly the mudshit must lie just as he breathes
>>5162929>There's no such thing as death for apostates (in the Quran, which should be followed more closely than anything if you claim to pratice islam).You are dense. You know that ?
>>5162700>it means spreading religion by the penYou're talking bullshit my man.None of the classic sources of islam support you on this.http://www.muwatta.com/ebooks/english/risala_ibn_abi_zayd_salutations.pdfChapter 30: On Jihad30.1 Its meaningLinguistically jihad is derived from jahd, which, according to alMisbah,is effort in what someone does, or juhd which is ability. Itis a technical term for the Muslim fighting the unbelievers whohave no treaty with the intention of elevating the word of Allahazza wa jall or presenting Islam. the reliance of the travellero9.0 JIHAD(O: Jihad means to war against non-Muslims, and is etymologically derived from the word mujahadasignifying warfare to establish the religion. And it is the lesser jihad. As for the greater jihad, it isspiritual warfare against the lower self (nafs), which is why the Prophet (Allah bless him and give himpeace) said as he was returning from jihad.``We have returned from the lesser jihad to the greater jihad.''The scriptural basis for jihad, prior to scholarly consensus (def: b7) is such Koranic verses as:(1) ``Fighting is prescribed for you'' (Koran 2:216);(2) ``Slay them wherever you find them'' (Koran 4:89);(3) ``Fight the idolators utterly'' (Koran 9:36);and such hadiths as the one related by Bukhari and Muslim that the Prophet (Allah bless him and givehim peace) said:``I have been commanded to fight people until they testify that there is no god but Allah and thatMuhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and perform the prayer, and pay zakat. If they say it, they havesaved their blood and possessions from me, except for the rights of Islam over them. And their finalreckoning is with Allah'';and the hadith reported by Muslim,http://www.mihraab.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Reliance-of-the-Traveler-Translation.pdf
>>5162928this is why there are debates of what apostasy really is if every child is born muslim
>>5162938You're a liar, you know that? But of course, when speaking of Muslims, it redundant to say so.It's not like those death sentences came out their fucking asses - generations of qadis who have spent their entire lives studying the Quran, the hadiths etc. have formulated these punishments, and I trust their interpretation of Islam far more than I trust some Muddie shitposting on a degenerate Chinese pottery image board
>>5162947i never denied that jihad doesnt mean fighting the infidels but that can be taken in a historical context (which christians often avoid to save the face of their religion) or as a modern toned down context, if you honestly believe there is a widespread conspiracy with imams telling us to go convert or rape the infidels you are wrong, imams who do this are looked down upon
>>5162952there are two separate muslims here now, me and the other guy
>>5162952>have spent their entire lives studyingI'm starting to have the feeling that this phrase has been one of the most widely used phrases to excuse evil in history.>and I trust their interpretation of Islam far more than I trust someone literally quoting the Quran and not changing anything of it
>naming your child Muhammed in a nod to a pedophilic rapist and war criminalislam is a plague. their core understanding of the deity is arguably more attractive than a lot of faith's, but holy fuq what a bad execution via Muhammed
>>5162889Listen buddy if you want to come up with your own personal interpretation of islam , that's fine, but don't act like your personal sect is representative of mainstream, orthodox or traditional islam .https://sunnah.com/muslim/44/298Abdullah reported Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) as saying:The best of my Umma would be those of the generation nearest to mine. Then those nearest to them, then those nearest to them,https://muflihun.com/abudawood/41/4590A man said: Messenger of Allah! It seems as if it were a farewell exhortation, so what injunction do you give us? He then said: I enjoin you to fear Allah, and to hear and obey even if it be an Abyssinian slave, for those of you who live after me will see great disagreement. You must then follow my sunnah and that of the rightly-guided caliphs. Hold to it and stick fast to it. Avoid novelties, for every novelty is an innovation, and every innovation is an error.https://muflihun.com/tirmidhi/39/2676Indeed, whomever among you lives, he will see much difference. Beware of the newly invented matters, for indeed they are astray. Whoever among you sees that, then he must stick to my Sunnah and the Sunnah of the rightly guided Khulafa', click to it with the molars.'"
>>5162976Bitch, you don't like it, go to Riyadh or Tehran and argue your case, watch as your fellow Muslims slap yo down
>>5161816>>5161819There's some very legitimate criticism here mixed up with some really inaccurate claims. I say this as an apostate who has no fondness for Islam. I can tell the poster(s) has lifted a lot of his arguments and citations from online polemics rather than doing independent reading of his own (as he claims). I know this because I read many of the same polemics while losing my religion and am familiar with their limitations. Certain things are very clearly out of context and are not misapprehensions that someone who is familiar with the texts would make.For example, the shit about taqiyya is very deliberately misstated. Taqiyya is literally a last resort for someone facing torture, death or compulsion. It's not carte blanche to lie about facets of your religion in the absence of actual duress. Taqiyya is permissible if someone holds a gun to your head and tells you to denounce Islam. It's not permissible to mislead non-believers about the tenets of your faith in the course of a civil debate about religion. Such an act would arguably be tantamount to 'shirk'.The shit about the impossibility of coexisting peacefully with non-believers because of 9:5 is another major red flag. The two scholars he cites in regard to this (ibn Kathir and Tabari) make it very clear that the verse in question relates to pagan Arabs at war with Muhammad at the time the verse was 'revealed'. Indeed, the weight of mainstream doctrine on this matter has classically been that jihad can only be defensive in nature. Al-Shafi's the only major orthodox figure that diverges from this approach to jus ad bellum in Islam. There are a lot of shitty things about Islam and there are certainly very violent readings of the faith but it's simply wrong to state that all the mainstream figures advocate perpetual war on the infidel. Anyone presenting such a selective reading as consensus is pushing an agenda.
>>5162968Do you take your islam from the quran, sunnah and the way of the salaf?Do you believe, like muhammad did, that his generation of muslims and the 3 after them would be on the right track and be practicing the best form of islam ?The scholars of the salaf say very clearly that Islam is a communal obligation and that jihad should be waged against non-muslims that you don't have a treaty with until they convert to islam or pay jizya.The reason why modern muslims are not telling muslims to do that is because doing so requires an islamic state and a caliph and currently there is not one.You trying to claim that islamic jihad is merely about defending yourself is totally wrong both in terms of history (the behaviour of muhammad and the 4 rightly guided caliphs) and in terms of the religious scripture and scholarly understanding.
>>5163005Sunni books say that Sunnis are allowed to lie and mislead non-believers if it furthers the cause of Sunni Islam.
>>5163020And its not related to taqiyya. Sunnis say lying is permitted to advance Islam.
>>5162620I wonder what kind of mental gymnastics you have to perform to come to that conclusion since Islam is literally all about resisting the devil.
lol christcucks SEETHINGmakes me glad for going full weeb and entrusting in the vow of Amidawe are truly living in the latter days of the law
>>5163035We know it's you Ahmed
(you)
>>5162922>>5162938quran 4:59>O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. And if you disagree over anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is the best [way] and best in result.https://muflihun.com/bukhari/52/260Narrated Ikrima:Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "https://muflihun.com/bukhari/89/271Narrated Abu Musa:A man embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism. Mu'adh bin Jabal came and saw the man with Abu Musa. Mu'adh asked, "What is wrong with this (man)?" Abu Musa replied, "He embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism." Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down unless you kill him (as it is) the verdict of Allah and His ApostleSo no, the penalty for apostasy is death in islam.
>>5162700The caliphates sure spread religion by the pen, they must have penned the Byzantine and Visigothic armies.
>>5163034The kind of mental gymnastics your fellow co-religionists are doing on here denying that jihad has anything to do with war.
>>5163051>literally putting hadith ABOVE the QuranThat's not how true islam works, but dense people will remain dense.
>>5162901Sunni Islam has clearly defined Madhhabs.
>>5163064The Tafsirs which are used to explain the Quran say the same thing.
>>5163066>he thinks I care about Sunni IslamI just care about Islam.
>>5161863Islam is entirely contingent on believing whether Muhammad spoke the truth or whether he was a liar. Christianity is not.
>>5163071And most Muslims do not belong to your sect of "Do it yourself Islam"
>>5163072>Christianity is not.it requires Jesus to be the son of God. If the gospel of John was false the whole religion would be invalidated. Don't be a sheep.
>>5163072Yeah but christianity is also easily underminded by the simple fact that there is no reliable non-christian sources for any of the supernatural happenings in the bible, most importantly the resurrection and the things that supposedly happened when Jesus was crucified have no independent verification.
>>5163081>underminedFixed.
>>5163075The Quran is not "Do it yourself", the Quran explains itself. Something the sunni and shia traditions surely are incapable of doing.
>>5163005>. Indeed, the weight of mainstream doctrine on this matter has classically been that jihad can only be defensive in nature. Al-Shafi's the only major orthodox figure that diverges from this approach to jus ad bellum in Islam.This isn't true at all. The overwhelming consensus of classical scholars and jurists is that quran 9:29 commands muslims to wage jihad against foreign non-muslims until they convert or pay jizya.That is THE agreed upon ruling in all 4 schools of classical sunni islamic law. It is not just Shafi at all.In this thread I've already quoted from Ibn Rushd's The distinguished jurist's primer which compares the sound positions of all 4 sunni schools, I've quoted from Mukhtasra by Al Khiraqi which quotes ibn hanbal's rulings on jihad, I've quoted from the Risala which is considered one of the soundest and most authoritative books of islamic jurisprudence of the maliki school and which derives its rulings from Malik's . Abu Hanifa is also quoted as saying the same thing in kitab al siyaar by al shaybani, his student.see >>5162660>>5162874>>5162947You have been fed a bunch of lies by some con artist scumbags like the Bayinnah institute who are trying to whitewash islamic history and islamic jurisprudence out of embarrassment for its religiously commanded warmongering.https://islamfuture.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/the-distinguished-jurist-s-primer-vol-i.pdfBook 10 , section 1.1 , 1.2 and 1.7 Page 453 - Page 464https://archive.org/stream/KitabAlSiyarAlSaghirtheShorterBookOnMuslimInternationalLawByMuhammadAlHasanAlShaybani/KitabAl-siyarAl-saghirtheShorterBookOnMuslimInternationalLawByMuhammadAl-hasanAl-shaybani#page/n55/mode/1upPage 44 http://www.muwatta.com/ebooks/english/risala_ibn_abi_zayd_salutations.pdfSection 30.2c on online page 666http://www.mihraab.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Reliance-of-the-Traveler-Translation.pdfSection O.9.0, O.9.1 and O.9.8 on page 246 onwards
>>5163064>disobeys quran 4:59>thinks he is following the quran
>>5163088So which tradition do you belong to, then?
>>5163101>he thinks chinese whispers is a reliable science>he commands me to obey a man who's currently not on earth and who himself couldn't know who was a hypocrite among him, a feat later "scholars" claimed to achieve in order to establish their "reliable transmission".The only thing you're doing is showing your intellectual nakedness here. You should have more modesty.
>>5163034The devil is a liar, and he mixes truth with a lie.
>>5163112Islam isn't a tradition and I don't think I'm obliged to belong to a tradition.Stop having that need to categorize everything.
>>5163122So what are your thoughts on Ali then?
>>5163126Cool name. Cool sword.
>>5163137Was he the rightful successor to Mohammad or no?
>>5163145not him but sunni bastards are retarded not to see Ali as the rightful successor desuhe is /ourguy/
>>5163116>>he thinks chinese whispers is a reliable scienceWhere did you receive your instruction on how to pray?It's from hadith. many other aspects of the 5 pillars of islam are also specified only from hadith.You have no sunnah without hadith.How are you going to interpret the quran without the sunnah? Every tafsir you read gives context to the quran using hadith reports.Every translation of the quran you read gives a non-literal translation where they automatically insert context using hadith reports. Otherwise the quran would be full of pronouns without any reference about whom muhammad was speaking (since he delivered sermons to audiences who were fully aware because they were living it at the time and able to see who muhammad was pointing at) and you would be totally unable to understand what the quran meant.Quranists like you have no intellectual footing. You're just appalled by the disgusting behaviour committed by muhammad in hadith reports but too cowardly and brainwashed to admit that islam is a fake, man-made religion so you look for a way to reject hadith even though doing so makes your religion totally unviable.
>>5163145Well, I wasn't here, so I don't have all the pieces of the puzzle in my hands. But if what I heard is true, Muawiya was a kafir and a horrible man and I certainly prefer Ali over him.
>>5163174>Where did you receive your instruction on how to pray?I don't do the Salat as of yet, precisely because I'm not 100% sure how to. That's why I'm studying arabic. But that's not because I presume the sunni way of praying is wrong, it's because I see merits in several ways of thinking, and I just need to build certainty in me. I don't want to walk on shaky grounds, and I've learned to be wary of relying on other people to do my thinking. I always listen to what both quranists and sunni have to say, just because I have harsh words towards sunnis doesn't mean I can't agree with them on a number of topics or that I can't have equally harsh words against quranists on a number of topics. I feel that the divide is overdone. In fact I think the Quran promotes a unifying sense of justice that supplants divisions based on different understandings regarding theology.
>>5163211so you're admitting that quranism isn't viable, so what is your intellectual methodology for rejecting hadiths? It seems like you're just refusing to acknowledge any report about the prophet that disagrees with your personal morals. That isn't a sound intellectual basis.
>>5163263Don't speak of intellect when you have none. Everything always comes down to what you would call "personal morals". Choosing to trust scholars to do your thinking is "personal morals". Everything you do is ultimately your own responsibility. Everyone deep down, always knows what's good and what's not, at least to some measure.
>>5163298>hurr I think that it's wrong to kill people for changing their religion therefore I know that muhammad never said to kill people for converting away from islam despite evidence to the contrary widely rated as authentic by muslim scholars.Very intellectual. Well done.
One of the apologists for jihad on here and possibly the OP is an Iraqi Sunni Arab pedophile living in Sweden born in 1998. He pretends to be moderate and claims Christians spread religion by force and Sunni Islam did it peacefully but if you push his buttons enough he will go into an autistic spergout and start boasting about how Arab Sunnis raped and slaughtered non-Muslims. He went by orgasm123456789 on the powerbot forum, as AntiMajoosUnit and QutaybabnMuslim on twitter and forgotten4ever, uracil_goblin, suphamsulu, suphamsulu2 and MyDolores on Reddit He cursed white people, Slavs, Swedes and Christians with rape threats and insults and threatened Shia, Christians and Syrian government supporters.His name may be QassimHe also went by Suphamsulu and suphamsulu2 when posting on incels and confessing to be a pedophile and a rapist.Information and pictures here at thisarchive.islink. He defends Sunni Muslims on 4chan and curses white people. If you see a post defending Islam and denying the Armenian genocide or calling white Christian women as whores here its 99% probably him. He boasted he had dozens of accounts on reddit's defending Islam, Erdogan, Ottomans for years That's him in those photos herehttp://archive.is/AVIoS http://archive.is/jciGqGet a load of Suphamsulu's rape and pedophilia. A mentally ill Iraqi pedophile preying on girls in Sweden.http://archive.is/HcdTw http://archive.is/MNnyXHe went by the name Suphamsulu and Suphamsulu2 on Reddit and confessed to being a convicted rapist and pedophile he uses his own accounts lile forgotten4ever and suphamsulu2 to talk to each other. He confessed to masturbating in his sister's panties on reddit.As suphamsulu said he was planning to date rape an Asian doctor on incels.meThis Iraqi pedophile in Sweden cheered to Taliban killing Americans here.http://archive.is/J5osY
>>5163642This Iraqi pedophile's name may be Qassim.He is mentally ill, he uses his reddit different accounts to talk to each other all the time and samefag and he asked on his barooo50 account on Reddit where he could find prescription drugs in Sweden.He also went by Suphamsulu and suphamsulu2 when posting on incels on reddit and incels.me and confessing to be a pedophile and a rapist on his Suphamsulu subreddit.He cheered Taliban killings of American soldiers on his barooo50 account on reddit.This Iraqi pedophile rapist confessed to physically assaulting women in Gothenberg, Sweden and masturbating in his underage sister's panties and his pedophile fantasies and attempted rape on his Suphamsulu subreddit. He defends Sunni Muslims and curses non-Muslims and Shia.Anyone who remembers Suphamsulu from reddit now you know what he looks like since his pictures are included in that link.This Iraqi Sunni Arab pedophile hates both Kemalist Turks and Armenians. He loves Erdoğan and Sunni Islamism. He insulted Turkish women on his forgotten4ever account and said they would be sold as sex slaves in Kuwait to Arab men when he was attacking Kemalist secular Turks and shilling for Erdoğan.Then he LARPED as a Turk on his twitter account AntiMajoosUnit to insult Shias and other people so they would insult Turks instead of Iraqis.He listens and masturbates to kpop. His reddit account uracil_goblin talked to his other accounts forgotten4ever and iraqishitposter on a thread about a kpop star. He is really that mentally ill.
>>5163646The evidence for the mental illness and pedophilia of this deranged Iraqi pedophile in Sweden is here.http://archive.is/c3Rbfhttp://archive.is/pcHwchttp://archive.is/p0LAZhttp://archive.is/J5osYhttp://archive.is/ajcw6http://archive.is/wITXe
>>5163664Suphamsulu2 liked to impersonate other people and talk to his own accounts on Reddit and pretend they weren't him. He used his different accounts like forgotten4ever to samefag on reddit.On Suphamsulu subreddit he confessed to spending all his time on 4chan and Reddit. The proof is in those archive.isReddit.He is samefagging right now here on 4chan, repeating copypastas and arguing with himself defending Sunni Islam by trying to make Christians and atheists look stupid.
>>5163666The Suphamsulu subreddit on reddit is archived and all the evidence is in those archive.is links. Suphamsulu as orgasm123456789 on the powerbot forum liked to boast about how Arabs and Muslims conquered and raped Europe. The thread was started by him and all the spam here were created by him. Look at his account on powerbot and you will his his mentality.
>>5163673This are the accounts of the 20 year old Iraqi Sunni Arab pedophile living in Sweden who hates Poles, Ukrainians, Bulgarians, Slavs, white Swedes, Christians, Assyrians, Copts, Shia, Hazaras, and PKK supporting Kurds.He loves Erdogan, Sunni Islamists and terrorists.His accounts on reddit were forgotten4ever, forgotten4everadobe, MyDolores, uracil_goblin, YellowCake_IQ and barooo50.His accounts on twitter were QutaybabnMuslim and AntiMajoosUnit.His account on powerbot forum was orgasm123456789 and yuuto3333his youtube account was yuuto3333http://archive.is/https://www.reddit.com/user/forgotten4ever/http://archive.is/https://twitter.com/QutaybabnMuslimhttps://archive.is/https://twitter.com/QutaybabnMuslim/with_replieshttp://archive.is/https://twitter.com/QutaybabnMuslim/mediahttp://archive.is/https://twitter.com/AntiMajoosUnithttps://archive.is/https://twitter.com/AntiMajoosUnit/with_replieshttp://archive.is/https://twitter.com/AntiMajoosUnit/mediahttp://archive.is/https://www.reddit.com/user/forgotten4everadobe/https://archive.is/https://www.reddit.com/user/MyDoloreshttp://archive.is/https://www.powerbot.org/community/profile/536423-orgasm123456789/content/https://archive.is/https://www.powerbot.org/community/profile/536423-orgasm123456789/?do=content&type=forums_topic_post&change_section=1https://archive.is/sM7jkhttps://archive.is/qCA9X
>>5163676More evidence that he is the Iraqi pedophile suphamsulu/forgotten4ever.http://archive.is/NeCSF>>[–]forgotten4ever -2 points 15 hours ago* The vlad method? When he was our bitch and we made his own brother kill him? Who occupied Romania for hundreds of years? What about the crusades? You ended up humiliated by Saladin and you ended up kissing the Turkish king's feet.>>Im too up for another crusade, will you lose it just as horrible against the Mamluks and Turks? You can only massacre civilians, but when the Turks come, your army shivers like cowards and ends up being massacred.>>Reading your post history you're just another one of the many spineless cowards that would gaze down at the floor at the sight of you seeing a Muslim.>>[–]forgotten4ever 1 point 3 hours ago >>After you've finished having your turns with your horse(that your government deems is absolutely legal) i'll just blow your head with a 7,63mm.http://archive.is/aHC46>>[–]forgotten4ever -12 points 1 year ago >>The FSA is still standing strong, it is in Turkey held positions, don't tell me I don't know what is going on in my own home. I would prefer an Al-nusra rule to Assad any day of the week, Assad has done atrocities 1000x worse than them. The "minorities" is being used as Russian and Iranian propaganda, good to see it has came to get into your head.His other account Uracil_Goblinhttp://archive.fo/tYk05>>[–]Uracil_Goblin (deleted by user)-15 points6 months ago>>Hilarious how the same people who support Assad "because he is the best choice" are extremely anti Erdogan, despite Erdogan doing nothing but good for the Turkish people, boosting the economy by over 500%, increasing the HDI, increasing the lives for tens of millions of Turks. But the average Redditor with a PHD in Turkish history will give you his view and of course it is the right view. Because who cares if Turks are staring? As soon as they are "SECULAR!!!111" that's all that matters.
>>5163678posts from his orgasm123456789 account where he claimed to store and sell child porn from his computerhttps://archive.is/OUbWp>>orgasm123456789>>BANNED>>Members>>2926 posts>>Report post >>Posted May 13, 2016 (edited)>>i have 25 proxies>>ok>>i have 20 vps>>ok>>i have illegal CP on computer, i have made some good money from distrubating it, though never watched it as i am a man of morale. (theres none on the pc i am atm so you have no evidence to the internet police, fuck the police. ) (and those vps dont exist in reality so fuck you even more youll never find them) >>cops can bust my ass, ok>>Edited May 13, 2016 by >>orgasm123456789https://archive.is/OUbWp#selection-2855.0-2858.0>>orgasm123456789>>BANNED>>Members>>2926 posts>>Report post>>Posted May 13, 2016 (edited)>>These are not muslims, these are either yazidis or christians, the ones we kill for fun, those are your christian brothers, you retarded polish scum, or theyre either gypsies, which is parallel to being a slav, you are a gypsy yourself you filthy polack. >>Edited May 13, 2016 by >>orgasm123456789One of his pictures got exposed here. He tried to deny it was him and reported the thread. The face matches the photos he posted on imgur and reddithttps://archive.is/tTHBJThis is the connection between the accounts. forgotten4ever posted one of his YouTube videos uploaded by his account yuuto3333 which also posted runescape videos.https://www.removeddit.com/r/translator/comments/24maiv/i_need_help_japanese_to_english/https://archive.is/tIKbshttps://archive.is/aD6UCHis orgasm123456789 account on the runescape forum powerbot said he had another account called yuuto3333 and both of them play runescapehttp://archive.is/d82mYHe sent rape threats to children. He claims to sell child porn. He says he supports Nusra (Al-Qaeda in Syria). A 20 year old Iraqi living off Swedish welfare while he curses Swedish people.
>>5163680One more for our Polish, Ukrainian and other Slavic bros on this deranged Iraqi in Sweden. He is singlehandedly responsible for over half the insults against Poles and Slavs on 4chan. He is the one boasting how Arabs and Muslims raped white people.If you see people cursing Slavs, calling Poles as Polacks and talking about rape and slavery of Slavs on his, pol, or int, its him.This is what he wrote on Poles, Ukrainians, Bulgarians and other Slavs on powerbot.https://archive.is/OUbWp#selection-2855.0-2858.0>>orgasm123456789>>BANNED>>Members>>2926 posts>>Report post>>Posted May 13, 2016 (edited)>>These are not muslims, these are either yazidis or christians, the ones we kill for fun, those are your christian brothers, you retarded polish scum, or theyre either gypsies, which is parallel to being a slav, you are a gypsy yourself you filthy polack. >>Edited May 13, 2016 by orgasm123456789http://archive.is/b27vh#selection-3125.0-3130.0>>orgasm123456789>>BANNED>>Members>>2926 posts>>Report post >>Posted February 25, 2016>>people like us were the ones hitler admired and on our demand killed 6 million jews, keep hating yourself you eastern euro trash, sieg heil and piece to those 4 million nazi soldiers that killed 40 million of you subhumans>>youre a bulgarian trash claiming to be austrian, just kill yourself please, also go read some history books, hitler looked up on arabs and aryans as the true master race, since youre a eastern euro trash i cant expect anything off your brain other than prostituting your woman for money. Maybe your grandparents were the victims of the marching nazi soldiers you eastern euro trash, who knows.
>>5163683>>The jews used to want to live with muslims that protected them rather with the barbaric christians, that is a fact, another fact is the matter that so many black americans converted to islam because there exists no racism there, i understand youre a hurt eastern euro trash though, nobody has ever enslaved the arabs, we are the masters of all slaves, we enslaved you white europeans, blacks, indians, chinese, and now were enslaving eastern euro trash. http://archive.is/Dw8cs#selection-3663.0-3668.0>>stop acting as if you are with the side of right wingers when you rape more girls than any other group in sweden and in england, filthy polack, long live stalin and hitler. stop coming to sweden to pick berries with your filthy hands no wonder the strawberry market went down as soon as you came to infest our plantations with your disgusting hands. http://archive.is/Dw8cs#selection-4359.0-4364.0>>napalm isnt used in hot areas you dumb polack scum, long live hitler for trying to wipe off you scum from this earth, you are so smelly dirty and disgusting, i havent claimed that i am european, you on the other hand, nobody likes you or your people keep sucking western dick in hope of getting validated, self hating scum.
>>5163685He boasted to selling child porn and threatened to rape children.https://archive.is/OUbWp>>orgasm123456789>>BANNED>>Members>>2926 posts>>Report post >>Posted May 13, 2016 (edited)>>i have 25 proxies>>ok>>i have 20 vps>>ok>>i have illegal CP on computer, i have made some good money from distrubating it, though never watched it as i am a man of morale. (theres none on the pc i am atm so you have no evidence to the internet police, fuck the police. ) (and those vps dont exist in reality so fuck you even more youll never find them) >>cops can bust my ass, ok>>Edited May 13, 2016 by >>orgasm123456789http://archive.is/ZwjQj#selection-1285.0-1290.0>>orgasm123456789>>BANNED>>Members>>2926 posts>>Report post>>Posted April 12, 2016 >>id fuck your daughter so hard and make her bleed while only thing you'd be able to do was watching, as youre a big faggot cuckhttp://archive.is/C0Ys2#selection-4349.0-4354.0>>orgasm123456789>>BANNED>>Members>>2926 posts>>Report post>>Posted April 12, 2016 >>me and your 6 year old daughter had sex yesterday, if you find some cum inside her, its from me :) http://archive.is/2EiSo#selection-4629.0-4634.0>>orgasm123456789>>BANNED>>Members>>2926 posts>>Report post>>Posted April 11, 2016 >>>>.....i have a 6 year old daughter (in may she will be 6) an 18month old son and a 3 month old son.>>i will rape your daughter
>>5163689This is the connection between the accounts. forgotten4ever posted one of his YouTube videos uploaded by his account yuuto3333 which also posted runescape videos.He tried to raise money to meet a Japanese porn star Rie Tachikawa.https://www.removeddit.com/r/translator/comments/24maiv/i_need_help_japanese_to_english/>>[–]forgotten4ever (deleted by user)2 points4 years ago>>I am sorry but does it concern you if it's from a porno? It was a 2 hour long video so I cut it and uploaded with Youtube so the one who is trying to help me doesn't get uncomfortable. And to clear some things up from Sweden to Japan it's about 7000 kilometers or 5500 miles. And I will succed with this "quest" mark my words. I will return to you with a picture of her and I once im done. Thank you.https://archive.is/tIKbshttps://archive.is/aD6UCHe begged justpaste to delete the info on his pedophilia, rape and insults against white people and begged imgur to delete his photos.
>>5163646he asked on his Uracil_Goblin account on Reddit where he could find prescription drugs in Sweden.https://snew.github.io/r/Drugs/comments/4zjpsz/where_do_i_get_modafinil_or_adderal_if_im_located/https://www.reddit.com/r/Drugs/comments/4zjpsz/where_do_i_get_modafinil_or_adderal_if_im_located/
>>5163690More of his deranged pedophilia, rape and his defense of Sunni Islamists and terrorists.http://archive.is/klrCxhttp://archive.is/pcHwchttp://archive.is/p0LAZ
>>5163700Any Assyrians and Copts in Sweden here should see what he wrote in his Twitter accounts to Assyrians and Copts and Middle Eastern Christians in general. He said all prostitutes in Egypt are Copts and prostitutes in Iraq are Assyrians. Is he brave enough to talk shit like this in public in Sweden?https://archive.is/vLPsT#selection-4835.0-4835.184>>Umar @AntiMajoosUnit · 1h1 hour ago>>Replying to @velosmey>>Are you Estonian or Greek? Because I remember back in Iraq you were lower than dirt, the cheapest prostitutes would be Assyrian or Chaldean. Just like the cheapest are Coptic in Egypt.>>1 reply 0 retweets 1 likehttps://archive.is/Cgizv#selection-3263.0-3263.143https://archive.is/cPvgC#selection-3983.0-3983.94>>Umar @AntiMajoosUnit · 1h1 hour ago>>Replying to @arathebeautiful >>@velosmey>>How old are you? Go to Egypt, ask any Egyptian who the whores are, they’ll all tell you copts.>>1 reply 0 retweets 0 likeshttps://archive.is/5unGI#selection-1886.1-1935.5https://imgur.com/a/Mpw64https://archive.is/8mAgMhttps://archive.is/uZu1E#selection-9971.0-10010.1http://archive.is/rjyXv#selection-1799.0-1799.95https://archive.is/5unGIhttp://archive.is/jciGqhttp://archive.is/https://twitter.com/QutaybabnMuslimhttps://archive.is/https://twitter.com/QutaybabnMuslim/with_replieshttp://archive.is/https://twitter.com/QutaybabnMuslim/mediahttp://archive.is/https://twitter.com/AntiMajoosUnithttps://archive.is/https://twitter.com/AntiMajoosUnit/with_replieshttp://archive.is/https://twitter.com/AntiMajoosUnit/mediaAnd Hazaras in Sweden as well, see what he wrote about Hazaras.https://archive.is/pUo2B
>>5163709He reported a powerbot thread repeatedly and cried bullying against other users, begging the admins to delete. And when his picture was unmasked he tried to cry and deny it was him and claim he was set up by an Indian and lied about his age on powerbot.https://archive.is/tTHBJ#selection-2043.0-2046.0>>Thats why you reported the thread million times saying " bullying" in the report. Get the fuck outhttps://archive.is/tTHBJ#selection-4431.0-4436.0>>orgasm123456789>>BANNED>>Members>>2926 posts>>Report post >>Posted May 13, 2016>>thats not me, the dothead and his psycho friend tried to shame me by posting a random FB linked to a guy who gave me false feedback 3 years ago, apperantly im him when im not even 15, youre the masters of welfare queens, just look at london you filthy polack rapists, im fat as fuck and 188 cm https://archive.is/OUbWp#selection-5519.0-5524.0>>orgasm123456789>>BANNED>>Members>>2926 posts>>Report post >>Posted May 13, 2016>>id just need to knock you over and sit on you and id eventually choke you out you weak ass phaggot cuck indian scum How much did you shit in your pants when you realized your MyDolores account where your selfies were posted was found out and you tried mass deleting everything and then deleted your uracil_goblin posts?Strange how it suddenly went from thishttps://archive.is/CdmoQhttps://archive.is/pUo2Bto thishttps://archive.is/VODdmhttps://archive.is/X9gztHe is too much of a coward to show his face to the Assyrians and Copts on twitter when he was calling their women prostitutes and insulting Syrian government supporters.https://archive.is/5unGI#selection-1886.1-1935.5https://imgur.com/a/Mpw64https://archive.is/8mAgMhttps://archive.is/uZu1E#selection-9971.0-10010.1http://archive.is/rjyXv#selection-1799.0-1799.95https://archive.is/5unGI
>>5163714This Iraqi in Sweden tried to get Indonesian Muslim women murdered on reddit for sleeping with a non-Muslim white man, saying one of them deserved death, and tried to contact the religious police on another one to get her killed. Read these rants very carefullyhttps://archive.is/E0Ql5https://archive.is/TMlMwhttps://archive.is/oOvKchttps://archive.is/SbhklHere he wishes Allah breaks the necks of all infidels.http://archive.is/u2aUMHe goes on a psychotic rant against ex muslimshttp://archive.is/yTXb5http://archive.is/2ujf4#selection-787.0-791.107He was absolutely deranged and sent threatening DMs to a white man for being married to Muslim women, calling her a whore and threatening violence.http://imgur.com/a/VfTaGhttps://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/5mrmiv/iranian_expresident_rafsanjani_dies_bbc_news/dc5sklu/https://archive.is/qZuGQhttps://www.reddit.com/r/iranian/comments/5m4ggq/donya_fannizadeh_creator_of_kolah_ghermezi_has/dc6kf5o/He admitted to living in Sweden earlier on reddit.https://archive.is/sIarTHere he says he prefers Nusra rule against Assad in Syria.http://archive.is/aHC46Here he says he hopes someone drinks poison and calls them an infidel.https://www.powerbot.org/community/topic/1319320-london-meet-up-7-11th-september/?page=2&tab=comments#comment-16140740Here he expresses his joy at the killings of yazidis and christians by isishttps://archive.is/OUbWp#selection-2855.0-2858.0>>"These are not muslims, these are either yazidis or christians, the ones we kill for fun, those are your christian brothers, you retarded polish scum, or theyre either gypsies, which is parallel to being a slav, you are a gypsy yourself you filthy polack."his yuuto3333 account posted a comment on a video about an Iraqi bodybuilder in Swedenhttps://www.clipzui.com/video/k3u215q2p3x5l3x3q4g5s4.html
>>5163746http://is2.4chan.org/his/1530252494019.png>>from forgotten4ever sent 30 minutes ago >>Fuck your iranian whore wife, i hope she gets raped by a real arab just like we did in the Qadisayyah you dirty pig and your whore wife, i hope some real arab man teaches that whore some manners to not go with some dirty westerner >>from forgotten4ever sent 23 minutes ago >>are you mad that you couldnt get any british women because you are a total cuck that doesnt know how to speak to women so you settled with an iranian whore that married you because you are white? long live Ahmedinejad that kept those dirty sluts in checkhttp://imgur.com/a/VfTaGhttps://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/5mrmiv/iranian_expresident_rafsanjani_dies_bbc_news/dc5sklu/http://archive.is/qZuGQ
>>5163761http://archive.is/b27vh#selection-4481.0-4486.0>>orgasm123456789>>BANNED>>2926 posts>>Report post >>Posted February 26, 2016>>The jews used to want to live with muslims that protected them rather with the barbaric christians, that is a fact, another fact is the matter that so many black americans converted to islam because there exists no racism there, i understand youre a hurt eastern euro trash though, nobody has ever enslaved the arabs, we are the masters of all slaves, we enslaved you white europeans, blacks, indians, chinese, and now were enslaving eastern euro trash. https://www.powerbot.org/community/topic/1286444-i-am-having-a-date-tomorrow-monday-any-tips-to-treat-m39lady-with-utter-respect/?page=2&tab=comments#comment-15612104>>orgasm123456789>>BANNED>>orgasm123456789>>Members>>2926 posts>>Report post>>Posted October 11, 2015>>actually since youre a swedish homofag who probably is getting penetrated by his dad as im writing this, tell me where you are in sweden, lets meet up, im in karlskrona atm with a couple of friends (rip you never had those) we're doing some business for my uncles company so im free for 4 days, lets meet up anywhere in sweden and ill make sure to leave you crippledd https://www.powerbot.org/community/topic/1283493-why-are-there-no-longer-porn-naked-pics-being-posted-here-like-the-good-old-days/?page=4&tab=comments#comment-15567687>>sweden sure does have good welfare, thats why white trash like you are even alive http://archive.fo/9RNT7#selection-3097.0-3128.0>>"im not foreigner you gayboy, stop sucking dicks wtf is wrong with you swedes? "https://www.removeddit.com/r/europe/comments/4tjs1e/german_train_axe_attacker_had_is_flag/d5iqksy/>>[–]forgotten4ever>>This article is an absolute scandal and dailyshit should be sued for using it, I know the guys sister and they live in Kristianstad sweden
>>5163764http://is2.4chan.org/his/1530252494019.png>>from forgotten4ever sent 30 minutes ago >>Fuck your iranian whore wife, i hope she gets raped by a real arab just like we did in the Qadisayyah you dirty pig and your whore wife, i hope some real arab man teaches that whore some manners to not go with some dirty westerner >>from forgotten4ever sent 23 minutes ago >>are you mad that you couldnt get any british women because you are a total cuck that doesnt know how to speak to women so you settled with an iranian whore that married you because you are white? long live Ahmedinejad that kept those dirty sluts in checkhttp://imgur.com/a/VfTaGhttps://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/5mrmiv/iranian_expresident_rafsanjani_dies_bbc_news/dc5sklu/http://archive.is/qZuGQ
>>5163767https://ceddit.com/r/islam/comments/6k50p3/does_anyone_know_a_way_to_contact_the_religious/https://ceddit.com/r/islam/comments/6k46ld/do_not_let_the_public_image_of_a_muslimah_deceive/djj6m5h/?context=3>>[–]forgotten4ever-7 points 1 year ago >>I am not going to turn this to a "racist" rant, but it is very saddening that in that part of the world, SEA, this kind of filth is very common. You see them deciding when to wear burka and whatnot, I don't know if it is limited to the race of the peoples, but I have noticed that the mongoloid peoples when you tend to look at central asia, SEA etc tend to be very hideous and sadly damaging the religion by doing the most "to the limit" things in Islam such as wearing a burka, but when they see a white stranger they lose their minds.>>What's funny is that in Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan they don't even acknowledge Ramadan but they do Christmas, what the hell is that type of behavior?>>This kind of fake Islam really gets on my nerves, do not wear a burka on one hand and on the other you hang around and most likely have sex with men whilst you are MARRIED yourself.>>This video and the other acts seriously damages me and makes me extremely sad. I recently fell into a depression when I joined the school prom and saw all my fellow muslim students drinking alcohol, by seeing further type of sins I just become sadder and sadder.>>[–]forgotten4ever-2 points 12 months ago >>I've got nothing to work on, I am perfect as a muslim and human being, and I will do takfir on these dirty lowlives that wear burka on one hand and on the other have sex with white men despite being married, she deserves the death penalty, hell death would be too light for her.
>>5163769http://archive.is/NeCSF>>[–]forgotten4ever -2 points 15 hours ago* The vlad method? When he was our bitch and we made his own brother kill him? Who occupied Romania for hundreds of years? What about the crusades? You ended up humiliated by Saladin and you ended up kissing the Turkish king's feet.>>Im too up for another crusade, will you lose it just as horrible against the Mamluks and Turks? You can only massacre civilians, but when the Turks come, your army shivers like cowards and ends up being massacred.>>Reading your post history you're just another one of the many spineless cowards that would gaze down at the floor at the sight of you seeing a Muslim.>>[–]forgotten4ever 1 point 3 hours ago >>After you've finished having your turns with your horse(that your government deems is absolutely legal) i'll just blow your head with a 7,63mm.http://archive.is/aHC46>>[–]forgotten4ever -12 points 1 year ago >>The FSA is still standing strong, it is in Turkey held positions, don't tell me I don't know what is going on in my own home. I would prefer an Al-nusra rule to Assad any day of the week, Assad has done atrocities 1000x worse than them. The "minorities" is being used as Russian and Iranian propaganda, good to see it has came to get into your head.His other account Uracil_Goblinhttp://archive.fo/tYk05>>[–]Uracil_Goblin (deleted by user)-15 points6 months ago>>Hilarious how the same people who support Assad "because he is the best choice" are extremely anti Erdogan, despite Erdogan doing nothing but good for the Turkish people, boosting the economy by over 500%, increasing the HDI, increasing the lives for tens of millions of Turks. But the average Redditor with a PHD in Turkish history will give you his view and of course it is the right view. Because who cares if Turks are staring? As soon as they are "SECULAR!!!111" that's all that matters.
>>5163770His other account YellowCake_IQhttp://archive.is/l1qnK#selection-31621.0-31624.0http://archive.fo/wTi5A>>[–]YellowCake_IQ -50 points 2 hours ago >>Say whatever you want . Glad to see your media has brainwashed you. Economy is booming here and Erdogan boosted the gdp/capita by over 500% Turkey Enjoys a gdp/capita of $30k and it's only rising :) Never have I or my family lived as good as we do in Turkey.>>Allah Erdogan Turkiye cCc <3 <3>>[–]YellowCake_IQ-16 points3 months ago>>Jews didn’t arm themselves and ran into villages to rape, kill and burn people. That’s the big difference, and in no way did a ’genocide’ happen. Armenia is a piss poor country that wants to leech off of us. Frankly i’m sad that they ran off to Lebanon, we should’ve chased down the criminals and held them all accountable.
>>5163772https://archive.is/EMGRu#selection-3221.0-3230.0>>[–]forgotten4ever 7 points8 points9 points 1 month ago (0 children)>>Do not listen to the "arab slave trades" propaganda. Arab enslaved all kinds of people, it is just western lies to make africans hate islam. Arabs enslaved europeans, turks, asians, blacks, basically anyone else, it is deeply rooted in arab culture and has nothing to do with islam.http://archive.is/b27vh#selection-4481.0-4486.0>>orgasm123456789>>BANNED>>2926 posts>>Report post >>Posted February 26, 2016>>The jews used to want to live with muslims that protected them rather with the barbaric christians, that is a fact, another fact is the matter that so many black americans converted to islam because there exists no racism there, i understand youre a hurt eastern euro trash though, nobody has ever enslaved the arabs, we are the masters of all slaves, we enslaved you white europeans, blacks, indians, chinese, and now were enslaving eastern euro trash. https://archive.is/kmFvB#selection-1561.0-1566.0>>[–]forgotten4ever 1 point 2 days ago >>What? You really are painting Iran as the good guys? They stir up more shit in the region than Saudi does tenfold. You are hating on KSA now because it is the hip thing to do.>>What have they done? Do they support the murderer Assad? He has currently over 600 000 lives under his hands yet the "good guys" Iran support him. You don't know what you are talking about.>>More like the other way around. No they don't decimate Yemen. They could destroy the whole country in one week and drive out the Houthi terrorists if they wanted to, but they take high in consideration for human lives.>>[–]forgotten4ever 1 point 15 days ago >>There is no "ex-islam" Islam is growing and will be the biggest religion once again.
>>5163773https://archive.is/kmFvB#selection-2581.0-2584.0>>[–]forgotten4ever 3 points 16 days ago >>Did you dig 9 months deep in my post history? LOL. Anyway just because I posted it there because I thought it was funny, in no way did I express any sympathy for anyone's views.Do not let this stir any other way. Doing what you are doing by dehumanisering the poor Saudis makes you just as awful as the islamophobes, racists and white supremacists. Your lying media is making you hate the Saudis for no apparent reason whilst in reality Saudis are probably the kindest people I have met in my entire life.
>>5163775He masturbates to Japanese porn actresses and Korean Kpop singers and talks to himself all the time using his accounts Uracil_Goblin, Iraqi_shitposter and forgotten4ever to talk to each other.http://archive.is/wITXehttp://archive.is/ajcw6His barooo50 cheered on the Taliban for killing an American soldier. http://archive.is/J5osY#selection-2591.0-2613.105
>>5163786Anonymous Fri 29 Jun 2018 21:08:27 No.4926874 Report>>4926873And for the Buddhists and Tunisians here this is what he wrote about you.http://archive.is/2ujf4>>[–]forgotten4ever-7 points7 months ago>>You were never Muslim to begin with but some Indian/White guy larping as one thinking you make a difference to a religion with over 1.8 billion adherents.>>Don't forget to pimp your future daughters to foreigners for some money like Buddhists usually do. (If you get a son then just give him some testosterone, he will be alike his kin in a couple of years doing things that Buddhists do.)http://archive.is/yTXb5>>[–]forgotten4ever -1 points 4 months ago >>Yeah try to suck the western dick some more. You sure enjoyed when the French raped your nation and sold your women on the streets like cattle, it's after them you are getting your "liberation" from right?>>Seems to be some sort of Stockholm Syndrome with Tunisians, their nation was raped, colonized and hundreds of thousands slaughtered by the west and now they have this mental retardation of them trying to be them for some reason.>>Oh and you are talking about prostitution and how Muslims are the awful ones? Ask your grandmothers if they had a stay at the whore wagons that followed the French soldiers around Tunisia.>>You have no natural resources, horrible innovations and basically nothing going on for you, while the religious and proud Muslims countries like KSA, Iran,Turkey, UAE, Qatar, Iraq, Kuwait and Bahrain will only continue to prosper.>>Algeria and Libya have huge potential and then you are left as the sole laughing stock in the Middle east, nobody respects you at all.
>>5163685He says he is a mixed Arab-Turkmen.https://archive.is/TtYZP#selection-1997.0-2001.183>>orgasm123456789>>BANNED>Members>>2926 posts>>Report post>>Posted September 25, 2015 (edited)im arabic/turk you dumb mountain nigger refugee>>Gz on 60k posts nice life, your daily refugee, wake up, eat food from the garbage, open ur pc wank to 2d drawn oversexualized girls then be a cancer on a dead runescape botting forum >>Edited September 25, 2015 by >>orgasm123456789He variously identifies as only Arab or only Turk/Turkmen depending on who he is talking to but he is from Iraq.
>This thread
>>5163676forgotten4evermini
What the fuck, were you hiding in his computer case or something?
