Mac Miller on Love, Ariana Grande, and the Last Thing That Made Him Cry

It’s been over 88 days since Mac Miller got completely sober. I know this for a fact because when I asked him about it a week ago, the 24-year-old artist pulled up an app on his iPhone to make sure he got the exact number of days right. “Ninety will be a big one,” he said with a grin. “I’m excited for the century.”

If you’re familiar with Miller’s earlier career, you know he first rose to fame as a teenager from Pittsburgh with a string of successful mixtapes. Early on, he showed a knack for writing zeigesty lyrics in songs like “Nikes On My Feet, which made him a hit among the suburban high school and college crowd. At 19, he released his very first album, Blue Slide Park, which became the first independent debut album to enter at the top of the Billboard charts in 16 years. Before he had even reached the legal drinking age, Miller was touring around the world with Lil Wayne and 2 Chainz. He also put out music at a prolific pace, releasing songs with Tyler, the Creator and Earl Sweatshirt, producing Vince Staples’s mixtape Stolen Youth, and releasing two more albums after Blue Slide Park. As is the case with so many talented young people who become rich and successful at lightning speed, soon enough, Miller was pretty heavily hooked on drugs.

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But that’s all in the past now, 88 days in the past to be exact, and during our conversation Miller openly admits that, at this point in his career, he’s on something else entirely: love. His latest album, The Divine Feminine, which debuted at number two last week, is unabashedly romantic and a huge departure from his former frat-rap days. Gone are the lyrics about drugs, money, and death; instead, The Divine Feminine is upbeat, hopeful, and pretty damn sexy, too.

As in his previous work, Miller’s album features an impressive slate of collaborators: Anderson .Paak pops up in the funky “Dang!,” while the sultry “Cinderella” features Ty Dolla $ign. A song with Kendrick Lamar, “God Is Fair, Sexy Nasty,” ends with a three-minute interlude from Miller’s grandmother talking about her and her late husband’s relationship.

But the song that has gotten the most attention is the jazzy R&B track “My Favorite Part,” in which Miller duets with Ariana Grande. A few weeks before the song came out, TMZ outed them as a couple with grainy photos of the two kissing on a dinner date. Grande recently made their relationship Instagram official with a post that has garnered more than 1 million likes. “A lot of people think it’s a whole album about her,” he said. “And I get it. It makes sense. But ‘My Favorite Part’ was actually one of the last songs we made [on the album].”

Though he’s quick to deny his new record is all about his burgeoning relationship with Grande, Miller spends most of our coffee date gushing like a man who’s head over heels. “I think a lot of times people just want to be cool, and to be in love is not cool,” he said. “But I think it’s the coolest. I think love is the coolest thing that there is.” Over four-shot espressos at The Smile, Miller opened up about The Divine Feminine, his newfound sobriety, Grande, and why he’s in the best place he’s ever been.

This whole album is about love. When did you start writing it? Were you in the process of falling in love? It was literally after I moved to New York and finished the last album, so just about a year ago. I think I was tired about talking about the same stuff. I wanted a new emotion to go all the way in on. I’ve made a lot of love songs in the past and they always end up being my favorites. I think it also opened the door for me to become a bit more vulnerable with how I speak and what I say and how I use my voice. The project was just going to be five songs, but I was enjoying so much of this world that I put myself into.

I love the song “Cinderella,” with Ty Dolla $ign. It’s very vulnerable. It’s just you and a piano. You’re not even rapping; you’re singing. I’ve always wanted to sing. I don’t think I have a great voice, but I just think that I get the emotion. It’s very authentic. Whatever emotion I’m feeling, I can sing it and you can feel it. I’ve always loved that discussion: What does love do to someone? I had this mixtape that was called Macadelic, and the concept was: What are the similarities between love and drugs? This is a less dark version of that. It’s more beautiful.

Did Ariana have any influence musically on the album? A lot of people think it’s a whole album about her. And I get it. It makes sense. But “My Favorite Part” was one of the last songs we made. I had talked about doing a record with her for the album. We hadn’t talked in a really long time, and I bring her this song, and then we go to the studio and do her part. And then, after that. . . . we started spending more time together.

Her voice introduces the whole album, but who are the other women on the first track? It’s [Ariana], and then Chloe Clancy, who’s my manager’s daughter, she’s now 9 and she’s been this symbol of innocence in my life that has been this guiding light. Whatever I do—because I’ve been in my own form of destruction—I have to keep it together for her. And the other voice is Kilo Kish, who is just such a creator and pure and an incredible soul. And her voice puts me in that place; she’s very cerebral to me. The album ends with my grandma finishing the whole thing with a true actual love story; a real one that I’ve cried listening to. When that came on, I was just sitting there bawling.

When was the first time you heard your grandparents’ love story? I was gathering different soundbites of women I knew. And I reached out to my mom and I was like, “Can you please go with the phone to Nanny and just have her tell the story?” They were married for like 50 years. He moved in across the hall of the same exact building, in the same apartment that my grandma to this day still lives in; it’s crazy. They’re perfection. You see your parents struggle—you know, my parents sleep in separate bedrooms—but my grandfather, every single night, until the day he died, he did not go to sleep until he told my grandmother that he loved her. That’s what I’ve chased my whole entire life. That’s what I want.

Is she psyched about being on the album? She’s actually not. She’s embarrassed because she thinks that she talks for too long and it’s the cutest thing ever. She’s like, “I’ve ruined the whole album.” And I’m like, “No, you’re the best part.” I joke around and tell her she’s getting nominated for an American Music Award for Best Interlude.

Let’s talk about “My Favorite Part,” your song with Ariana. Did you write this song when you were together? Obviously the emotion that we’re singing with is real. I’m big about things on music that I make being authentic. But the funny thing is that we made that song before we even got together. We were friends.

But there was obviously something there between the two of you. Well yeah, obviously. It’s just interesting; all this stuff comes at a weird time, because I’m not trying to sit here and market my relationship, but I’m not trying to not talk about that song. That song is beautiful and it’s an aspect about my life. I’m still trying to figure out how to navigate [talking about my relationship]. It’s tricky. But as long as I’m honest, I’m good with it.

Did you write that song always with her in mind to sing it? For sure.

So you had an agenda? [Laughs.] The agenda wasn’t—I didn’t think this was going to happen.

You’ve talked about your past struggles with drug abuse. How have you handled your recent sobriety? It’s amazing. I am actually completely sober for the first time. I’m just changing how I live life, my state of mind. There is a health aspect, of course, but it’s more about being present and having real emotions. Knowing what’s going on, and embracing it and flourishing in it, rather than trying to put it away in some dark corner. When you first get sober you feel like a superhero. You feel real emotion because you’ve been suppressing it forever. It’s so much easier to navigate what’s important.

How long have you been sober? Eighty. . . . hold on, I have an app. It’s been 88 days. Ninety will be a big one. I’m excited for the century. I’m just geeked. There are moments, but it’s a lot easier than I thought it would be. Getting over the hump was difficult; getting there was the most difficult thing, deciding to make that change.

Your album is all about putting a woman, or women in general, on a pedestal—something that you don’t really see in many rap albums. What do you think about some people calling The Divine Feminine a feminist, or woke, rap album?

I think more people do it than [you realize]. I don’t think that I’m the most original or unique, but I think that a lot of times people just want to be cool; and to be in love is not cool. But I think it’s the coolest! I think love is the coolest thing that there is.

Which love songs would you dedicate to girls in high school? I think “Love and Happiness” by Al Green is the quintessential music to capture that emotion. I wish that was me, but it won’t ever be. I just have to accept that I won’t ever be Al Green, which is a hard pill to swallow.

Why not? Because Al Green is Al Green and I can’t have that velvety of a voice. Where I’m at mentally, that’s what I want; I just want to feel good. I was really anti-feeling good before.

Why do you think you were “anti-feeling good” in the past? I think at my core I’ve always been more of what I am now. I just didn’t think I could handle what I was handling. I think I was just tired. I wanted to explore the sad, tortured soul. But I think the older I get the more I’m comfortable in my own skin. Before I was trying to figure out what was cool and I was trying to mask what was inside. Before the focus was, “I just want shit that sounds tight.” I can always do cool raps; I can still do that. But I have to fucking jump in to swim. This is me—like me or hate me. I can’t have a career success built up from a perception. The more you create, the more you realize that it’s about more than just making good songs.

Are you worried about your upcoming tour? Do you think touring will be hard now that you’re sober? I think I will enjoy it more. Touring for me used to be 23 hours of depression, one hour of stage. There have been fun times, of course. But I think I’m going to finally tour how I’ve always wanted to, which is go tour somewhere and get off the bus. Go see where the fuck I am. Go to the place where they invented the thimble!

Are you worried at all about all the attention your relationship with Ariana is getting? My main thing is that my life is going to continue to be my life. I think that I’m not going to get involved in it. It’s there, cool. But we’re low-key. If we’re going to go to dinner, we’re going to go to dinner. And let the world speak, say whatever. That stuff is just its own thing. It’s different for me, but it has nothing to do with us, it’s its own separate thing.

You got into a Twitter fight with Donald Trump years ago. You were one of the firsts! I called it! Everyone took him as such a joke.

Why did you write a song about him? I wrote a song about what an 18-year-old’s perspective was on success and money. And, to me, at that age, that was the symbol. And I laugh because I feel like that’s almost the same reason why people are voting for him; they just see money and success.

Why did Donald Trump threaten to sue you? He got pissed because I called him a dick. I was 19, and he went off. It was actually awesome. If you want to put it in perspective, the person who could possibly be the leader of the country flipped out on a 19-year-old kid calling him a dick with a Twitter rant. That was ridiculous! As comedic as it can be, it’s terrifying. He has a following of people who really think he’s the answer. I’m almost scared of the aftermath, win or lose, there’s a divide in the country that’s unreal. There are people right now sitting there saying Donald Trump should be the next President and that’s nuts. Because regardless of what type of person he is—because who really even knows?—what he’s running off of is horrible.

What are you listening to now? I’ve just been listening to Frank Ocean’s album nonstop. He’s just such a phenomenal writer. His album [Blond] is incredible and I think it should get album of the year at the Grammys.

It’s been such a great year for music. I’m all for emotional-ass music. I think I’ve always been that way since a kid. I want to sit there and feel something; I want you to take me somewhere. I want to cry.

When’s the last time you cried? The last thing that made me cry was Prince dying. I was working on the song “Skin” and it was after a two-week writing binge that I was coming up empty the whole time. Then out of nowhere, Prince dies and I cried for 45 minutes nonstop. I didn’t realize how affected I would be about that. It was hard to see. People love a fucking headline and it was hard for me to sit there and see someone who was obviously very private be turned inside out after his death. All this shit they were saying, I was just like, give it a second before you come with the drug stories. But it is nice to see the world unite for things and the world united for Prince. It was terrible but amazing to see the power of music. The Eiffel Tower was purple, man. That’s the illest shit ever.