Asclepius God Concept
Preface: I know what you are thinking, why put another Greek god in the game. Well to answer your question, I think Asclepius' lore lends to some unique playstyle, especially for a guardian. He could be the first mana steal and basic attack focused guardian we would have. I had some troubles trying to balance having no damage in a character with great utility, cc, and healing. Please give me some feedback on what you think should be changed and whether you think he is too weak or too strong.
Asclepius, God of Healing
Pantheon: Greek Role: Guardian Play style: Basic Attack/ Healer/ Mana Steal
Base Stats
Health: 490 (+90)
Mana: 200 (+40)
Hp5: 8 (+.8)
Mp5: 4.6 (+.4)
Physical Protection: 20 (+3)
Magical Protection: 30 (+.9)
Basic Attack Range: 40 (+0)
Basic Attack/ sec: 1 (+1.5%)
Basic Attack Damage: 38 (+1.5) + 20% Magical Power
Basic Attack Progression: None
Lore
Some dream about being the child of a god, yet they never stop to think about the struggles they would face. However, no demigod; save for a couple; ever escaped the cruelty of destiny. Such is the same for Asclepius.
Asclepius’ mother died during childbirth. Apollo, taking pity on his son, saved him from the womb and gave him to Chiron. Asclepius learned medicine from Chiron and soon rivaled him in the field. After treating a snake with kindness, it licked his ears and taught him the secret knowledge about medicine.
Soon his knowledge of medicine was so great; Zeus feared that he might learn a way of overcoming death. His fears were soon founded, when Asclepius succeeded in resurrecting one of his patients. Zeus decided to punish Asclepius for threatening the Gods monopoly on immortality. Asclepius was slain by a thunderbolt; at Apollo’s request, Zeus placed the god of medicine among the stars as a constellation.
Watching from the stars, Asclepius has seen much death and blood on the battlefield and he can take no more. Zeus cannot contain him any longer, for Asclepius’ secret knowledge is far greater than the Gods can comprehend.
Abilities
Passive – Hippocratic Oath
Representation of passive icon
Asclepius made an oath to not harm but heal. This causes his basic attacks to drain mana from enemies instead of harming them. Drained mana is stored in a tank and can be used to boost abilities. Asclepius can also use mana from the tank when he runs out of his own mana.
Ability Type: Passive
Mana Tank: holds 1000 mana
Notes: On hit effects, such as telekhines ring and polynomicon, convert to mana steal instead of health. Magical protections and damage reduction reduce the amount of mana steal. Basic attacks pass through minions. Mana steal does activate minion aggro. Can drain past tank capacity but does not overcap mana tank. Mana tank stays full even when killed. UI shows mana tank.
1st Ability – Aesculapian Snake
Representation of ability icon (real snake named after Asclepius)
Asclepius throws his spear, passing through minions and stopping at the first enemy god hit. Snake drains mana from enemy god every second while the snake is on them. Asclepius cannot basic attack while channeling this ability. Using 25% of his mana tank, Asclepius can activate this ability again; doing 75% of the remaining mana drain instantly and stunning the enemy.
Ability Type: Line
Cost: 70, 75, 80, 85, 90
Cooldown: 15s
Mana Drain: 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 (+ 20% magical power)
Snake Lifetime: 4s
Minion Damage: 15%, 30%, 45%, 60%, 75% of remaining health
Boost Cost: 25% of Mana tank
Stun: 1.3 Secs
Notes: Drains a total of 80, 120, 160, 200, 240 (+ 80% magical power). Magical protections reduce mana drain. Spear of the magus reduces magical protections with this ability. Other item effects do not work (eg soul reaver, ethereal staff). Asclepius has a blue mist going into him while this ability is being used. When activated again, blue orb goes to Asclepius.
2nd Ability – Humorism
Representation of ability icon
Asclepius sets a circle on the ground. Any ally in the circle gets a damage buff and attack speed buff. He can use 10% of his mana tank to activate it again. When activated, Asclepius balances the humors of any ally god and imbalances the humors of enemy gods. Allies are healed and cleansed of CC. Enemies gain a new CC called sickness.
Ability Type: Circle
Cost: 60, 65, 70, 75, 80
Cooldown: 15, 14.5, 14, 13.5, 13s
Damage Buff: 5%
Attack Speed: 30%
Circle Lifetime: 4s
Boost Cost: 10% of Mana tank
Heal: 50, 65, 80, 95, 110 (+25% Magical Power)
CC Cleanse: 1.5s
Sickness CC: .5s
Notes: Sickness CC causes movements to be reversed (up is down, left is right, vice versa). Activating second abilities causes buff to stop. Buffs also affect Asclepius but damage effect increases mana drain for basic attacks and first ability, also increases heal on third ability.
3rd Ability – Self-Medicate
Representation of ability icon
Asclepius empowers himself, increasing his attack speed and causing his basic attacks to affect both allies and enemies. Allies are healed for Asclepius’ Basic attack plus a flat heal. Enemies are slowed with a stacking slow. Uses 1% of Mana tank for every basic attack. Cannot use with less than 10% in Mana tank.
Ability Type: Buff
Cost: 80, 85, 90, 95, 100
Cooldown: 14s
Attack Speed Buff: 20%, 30%, 40%, 50%, 60%
Mana Tank Cost: 1%
Lifetime: 6s
Heal: Basic Attack Damage (+ 10, 20, 30, 40, 50)
Slow: 5%
Stacks: 5
CC Lifetime: 1s
Notes: Heal is based of attack damage plus a flat heal. Hastened Ring only works on enemies hit. On-hit effects, such as polynomicon and telekhines ring, do not work on heal. Max slow on enemy can reach 25%. Basic attacks cannot drain mana from enemies while this ability is activated. When Mana tank reaches 0% capacity, this ability is canceled no matter how much time has passed. Slow and heal isn’t affected by magical protections. Any damage increase helps heal but not the slow.
4th Ability – Immortal Wisdom
Representation of ability icon
Asclepius uses the secret wisdom taught to him by snakes to raise the dead on his team. He can raise one more dead with each rank of this ability. Each god raised also costs 20% of his Mana tank. However, he can only use this three times before Zeus strikes this ability from him. His death, after all three charges are used, is increased by 150%. He can use this ability when he is dead as well.
Ability Type: Resurrection
Cost: None (3 Charges)
Cooldown: 150s
Gods Revived: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Mana Tank Cost: 20% per God
Notes: Needs rank 5 and a full Mana tank to fully resurrect the whole team. Can only resurrect those already dead, changes death timer from wherever it’s at to zero (eg 30s left for a god goes to zero, and they are revived). Charges are shown on UI right below the Mana tank. Death increase makes a 60 second death timer go to 90 seconds. When activated a wheel with every allied god and yourself appears, only dead gods can be selected for resurrection (looks like Morrigans wheel except with only allied gods and yourself). Morrigan when transformed into Asclepius gets to use whatever charges he has left, cannot use this ability when she dies. If she uses ult early while only having one charge of immortal wisdom then dies as Asclepius, she also gets increased death counter.
UI
Rough Estimate of UI
Mana stealing is a really anti-fun concept....It prevents enemies from fighting back. It's also tricky to balance, since too little mana stealing would render the character ineffective, and too much would prevent enemies from responding. There's probably some way to make this general character concept work, but I don't think mana-stealing is a reasonable mechanic to implement.
Er, have you ever actually played games with mana steal in them? It's a reasonable way to take someone out of the fight. Hell, mana steal is a lot more fair than a secondary resource like hysteria. After all, secondary resources have no way to actually interact with them, but you can easily mitigate most of the mana issues with a mana chalice. (but, maybe it should just be a flat value, and it definitely shouldn't have that stun attached.)
My counter point would be that smite already has anti-fun mechanics. Anything that limits opponents options could be classified as anti-fun. Hard CC and reflect damage could be considered anti -fun; I think hi-rez said in something, that if it has some form of counterplay they would use it. I dont think he can be played as anything but support, and duo in my opinion has the best option for not being so mana dependent. Plus his mana stealing requires skill shots, so not all, especially his autos, will hit. Do you think that counterplay is enough to justify the mana steal? Or does it still not work and what changes would you make?
Very interesting and unique concept. A few points and questions though.
1: Could his 3 not be similar to Xbalanques where it’s a pure and permanent steroid that drains his mana? E.G have his basic attacks already heal allies and steal MP but the steroid would boost the amount healed and maybe add a small buff to defence for a few seconds and slow enemies.
2: The 1st and 2nd abilities are really interesting but just allowing them to be used again for a certain amount of mana seems a bit weak. Maybe for his first ability, have the snake entangle the enemy which could silence or root the enemy for 50%-75% of the mana tank. The second ability could have the size of the circle increase for 15%-25% of the mana tank.
3: He seems like a really good support for allies but that limits him and makes wave clearing harder. Maybe add a passive buff to allied minions with a certain range and/or and debuff to enemy minions within a certain range.
4: I am really unsure with his ultimate. On one hand it is very interesting and could be utilised really well but seems a little weak. Maybe it could cost 100% of the mana tank to revive one ally to his location, take 50% of his current health and give him a short time of invulnerability (1-2~ seconds).
Those are just some of my impressions on it but I can tell you have definitely put a lot of time and effort into this idea. Well done.
1: Originally, I was thinking of having his passive not only mana steal but heal allies with basic attacks. But i was thinking about it, and having a constant stream of healing non-stop would make him really un-fun to play against. Like it doesnt seem like a lot, but being able to sit under tower and heal up to full while you can't do anything seems unfair. I also thought about having it be like freya or xbalanque's, but the one thing he has going for him that they don't have is his attack speed buff. Its gonna be kinda hard to get attack speed for him in a legit match. Only shoguns is really viable in my opinion. I dont think having a permanent buff with attack speed would be good. With a permanent buff and not taking into consideration his actual mana, he would be able to shoot off a 100 shots before he would have to build up his mana tank again. To mitigate being able to fire so many shots, I could make his ability cost high like freya's. But without a reliable way to gain mana back, i didn't think it would be fun for the player. I know he can use his mana tank for abilities, but i kinda want to keep that as a emergency, not something to use all the time. Also if i got rid of the attack speed and just made it permanent, he would have higher heals over time; but his kit wouldn't have that quick burst of heals other healing focus gods have. The attack speed on that ability would make him heal quicker over a shorter time. So i came to the decision to have it as it is. Do you think that's fair? Would you get rid of the attack speed in the ability and add defense?
2: The first and second ability don't use his own mana for the extra effects. They use the mana he steals from enemies. I was trying to have him need to play around with this secondary resource. I was trying to make his abilities base be enticing enough on there own to be able to use. The first effects on the one is a ticking mana drain (it might need to be toned down, especially the scaling, but I cant test that) the secondary effects are instantly taking 75% of the remaining mana damage (like zhong kui's combo) and the stun. For the first effects on the one is like a fafnir's dragon area buff on a hachiman's banner and the second effect is the heal and cleanse on allies and cc on enemies. Do you think the first effects are too weak to compensate not wanting to pop them all the time? I was thinking of making the enemy cc be in the first effects of the second ability, making anyone be in the circle be affected by it. And making the mana cost for the mana tank too high, might limit his other abilities. Making his secondary mana high might help the first problem, but people might game the system by just saving up secondary mana to use with a permanent 3. Also having the circle get bigger, might make him a sieging god. It could allow him to be like fafnir, where everyone would be able to stand in the buff and quickly make work of structures. Do you think these points are valid or am i overthinking? Do you think i need to buff the first effects and maybe tone down the seconds?
3: Yea, laning would definitely be his biggest weakness and something that would make him useless in other roles. I really didnt want him to have great lane clear on top of healing, having more than one cc, and mana steal. I made his one, which i kinda made to be leveled first his minion clear ability. He cant kill them himself, but the one does percent damage based of remaining health against ever minion it goes through ( think anhur's implae that does reduced damage to minions). He wont be clearing fast on his own, but a 75% reduction at max rank would cause his allies and other minions to be able to pick up the slack. Do you think thats enough or does he really need some kind of definitive damage? Where would you put the minion buff or debuff? Do you think that would make him too minion dependent? What if i put a minion debuff, along the lines of khepri, on his one?
4:And i might be overestimating, how strong his ult is with the amount of downsides it has. I was really only thinking about a team wipe and being able to defend a siege faster. But that is a very specific scenario that this ult would be perfect for. And i dont know about your ult, it has a very similar feel to khepri. The lore states how good he was at this. In some it states how he brings back multiple dead people, so i would like to keep that. Also the 100% secondary man,a would limit him immensely. Especially if he used this in a fight. What about getting rid of the extra god per rank, keeping 20% of mana tank per god, and giving him the option to either resurrect them in the fountain or where they died. Would that be too strong? He does only get 3 times to use this in a game. What if i also made him lose charges over time as well? or would that balance him out or is that worse?
Mana steal is not a fun mechanic, also if the assclaps god can't assclap people is it even a god.
There are some interesting abilities here, but I think you underestimate just how important having damage is, even if Asclepius has utility to make up for it. He would be unable to clear minions waves or even jungle camps without help from a teammate, so farming would be ridiculously hard.
He also has no lane pressure at all, and if he was played as a support he would be very prone to ganks and lane bullying, since he has no mobility and only has a conditional single target stun to protect himself. His aoe heal is too low and he can't even heal himself with his basic attacks.
Again, some cool ability ideas, but his utility is still too low to make up for having no damage. Plus, I don't think his ultimate is as useful as you may think it is; if an ally dies during, say, a teamfight at Fire Giant, it's unlikely that they can make it back in time from the fountain after Asclepius revives them.
Maybe a bit, i thought i could be able to make up for it. He does have some minion clear in his kit, his one does remaining health percentage as damage. I didn't want him to have good damage on top of heals, mana steal, and cc. I didn't want him to be able to clear by himself, this kinda narrows him to support but as support he would clear with someone like mid, jungle, or hunter. He couldn't be able to clear by himself though. I guess that would make whoever plays him have to share waves perfectly with people to stay ahead. Do you think he needs some definitive minion clear, some more remaining health percentage as damage in his kit, or maybe something different? If we can keep with his no damage and still having minion clear, maybe we could use a LoL mechanic. There is a champion called Ivern who cant attack or attack jungle minions, he can free them after a certain amount of time. Do you think something like that might work with him? Change his one from a line to a circle like vulcan, where asclepius lobs his rod. If it hits an enemy it does ticking mana steal but if it hits the ground it stays there and after a certain time it frees every minion in the radius. Do you think would work?
And i agree all of his hard cc is in secondary effects of abilities that need mana from a secondary source. I was thinking his new form of cc on his two being there on his first effect. Whenever he throws down the circle, enemies inside would be affected by it until they leave. Do you think that would make up for him being prone to ganks and lack of reliable cc? For example, he gets ganked and throws that down when the enemy is on him and the enemy would suddenly back away if he is holding forward. Maybe we could have the cc be more more reliable by having it be a bigger radius when less allies are in it. We could have it be like artio's vines and have the circle be centered around him, so he can walk with it. And everytime an ally enters it it gets smaller. Like it starts at 30 or so (about terra's heal radius) with him inside it and shrinks by 5 for every ally. Would that make up for his lack of reliable cc? Would adding a silence to the circle of the 2 help or be overkill?
His aoe heal his comparable with other guardian healers aoe heals. But you are right he doesnt really have a reliable way to heal himself besides his aoe heal. Do you think that is really bad? it could just add more layers to his playstyle. One fix could be just making his basic attack split 50-50 from mana steal to converting the rest into health for him. Do you think that could fix it?
And you're right i was overestimating his ultimate. I was really only think of the scenario where you get time wiped and they are trying to siege your phoenix or titan. That is a critical moment but maybe to rare to warrant this ult just for that. What about getting rid of the extra god per rank and giving him the option to either resurrect them in the fountain or where they died? This would give his ult more uses, but is this two powerful a change? If it is, could making him also lose charges over time compensate or make him too weak?
To put it plainly, there is no way in fuck this would ever be viable, especially since SMITE is stuck firmly in a burst meta at the moment. And draining mana doesn't affect hunters too much, who are the damage powerhouses at lategame. And 1000 mana isn't a lot lategame, either. Most mage builds will end up with far more than that, and it'd be spread between 3-5 people. And his stun is too conditional. A guardian with no easy to hit, quick casting hard CC? Actually useless.
Sorry man, maybe in a different game it'd work. But not in the burstfest, CC crazy game SMITE is.
I made him a guardian on purpose because hunters are a good counter for him. But I guess I didn't make him a decent enough counter for hunters. What if he had a attack speed and/or power drain as well? Like after they run out of mana to drain he steals attack speed and/ or power. Or his 3 reduces attack speed and/or power along with the slow? What that be enough of a counter to make him more viable?
For 1000 mana, what if it scales with level? and his basic attacks also scale harder late game to steal more mana? Like it would be 1000 (+100) so in late game that would be 3000 mana. And his basic attack have an extra (+5) for just the mana steal so late game he would be stealing an extra 100 mana steal per basic.
I agree with the conditional cc. What about a soft cc like cripple for his one to a stun and a hard cc like a silence on his two that's not conditional?
That is a good question lol, I forgot he was in the game. From the top of my head, I'd say his auto's does not make cu chullain gain rage, he drains one rage per basic, but he doesn't gain any mana for his tank from attacking cu chullain. Would you say that would be fair?
Eh, the 1 and passive are kind of redundant, and the 1 shouldn't stun. And the sickness CC is kind of just gimmicky w/o really adding that much. Overall it's a good idea, especially with the idea for mana drain, just the execution's a tad dodgy.
Do you think I should just make his basic's mana steal and change up his 1? Also don't you think he doesn't have enough hard cc for a non damaging guardian? The stun on his one is very conditional so it's not gonna hit every time. And his sickness cc can be gimmicky, but other cc can be too. I feel like it is along the same vein of intoxicate or tremble. I know at least in other 3rd person games having your controls reversed suddenly can be very disorienting. If it doesn't work out, do you think a silence is a good alternative?
Inb4 Tina gets her hands on the VP and makes endless jokes about Asclepius' "rod"
Would his basic attacks be able to harm minions and only mana steal against gods? Overall it's a fun concept, although some of the effects would probably be over/under powered and need a lot fo balancing.
A god without no damiging ability against gods wouldn't work even if you give him ton of utility and heal
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