Press J to jump to the feed. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts
OverviewPostsComments
Sort
ynthrepic commented on
bbc.com/future...
Posted by
13 points · 1 hour ago

In japanese culture, there's always this Tatemae, meaning you put on a different front everyday for work or even with friends so when you're alone with your partner or whoever, you act like a baby to get taken care of.

Its so difficult to show your true self if you follow japanese culture. There are many who are more westernized and open and say what they want but still, there's this shyness or a barrier you always have.

Sometimes you just have to say F it and just say what you want!!

see more

Its so difficult to show your true self if you follow japanese culture. There are many who are more westernized and open and say what they want but still, there's this shyness or a barrier you always have.

Even those Japanese who insist they are more western still surprise you sometimes with something unusual. I'm being hosted by a friend at the moment and I was told to, "close the curtains at night, so the neighbors don't think we are untidy".

The fact that I'm being hosted for quite a few weeks for free is still incredible, and I can more or less come and go as I please. But, I was under the assumption my (Japanese) girlfriend could stay over, but apparently our relationship isn't serious enough (their opinion/observation based on her... shyness and discomfort around them it seems like), so they're not comfortable with that after all. Put a bit of a spanner into our Christmas plans, but beggars can't complain I suppose, haha.

ynthrepic commented on

why are japan's policies reasonable, but not trumps? trump is for far more open policies. trump is in favor of allowing fairly large numbers of legal immigrants, whereas japan hardly allows any.

and i dont see what is unethical about a wall, aside from it being unethical to waste taxpayer money. its not unethical to block people from entering. we owe immigrants nothing. again, i like immigrants and welcome them, but we dont owe them entry. we can choose to give them the gift of allowing them in, but if we dont, thats not unethical.

see more

Trump's actual policies, aside from the wall, run somewhat contrary to his spoken intentions, which are vile. I have more problems with his xenophobic bordering upon racist rhetoric. But of course policies will have more nuance. Still, he did 'shut down all Muslims' for a time, for no reason. He has intensified border internments, which are deeply unethical. And the wall is largely ineffective and way to expensive. It was a propaganda piece, nothing more. There are better ways to reduce illegal immigration, such as helping partnering nations to improve local conditions. And yes, the US gets a lot of value out of trade with South America, and so the US does owe if to them to help improve conditions.

The analogy to Japan is not clear cut due to many factors. Mostly geography, but also existing population density. I am not uncritical of Japan either. They need more young workers, and they absolutely should be taking in more refugees and asylum seekers.

Where I do slightly agree with Trump is on the challenges of multiculturalism. But Trump steps all over basic human rights and dignity with his characterisation of other cultures and religions. He doesn't care about secular human values or rights. In fact, I'm not sure he cares about anyone but himself, and maybe his family.

he never shut down all muslims. he said he would, but he never did. he restricted some countries, not including many of the worlds largest muslim countries like indonesia and their 200+ million muslims.

also i dunno whats so unethical about banning muslims. islam is a very silly and often dangerous ideology. not unlike nazism or Christianity. i would like freedom-minded non religious immigrants. like from hong kong. people that share our values. nothing racist or xenophobic about that. foreigners are great. particularly ones without dangerous ideologies. for example mexican catholics are fairly peaceful, i welcome them. they dont really acton the violent parts of their stupid religion. and its american catholics behind the child abuse that is so rampant in their religion. mexicans are kind folks. even though they are catholic.

the analogy to japan is very clear cut. basically their whole population and all of their leaders are far more anti-immigrant than trump. and thats ok, its their country. isnt it?

i dunno that trump mischaracterizes other countries. i have been to places like haiti, places he calls shitholes. the people there agreed, and wanted to leave. haiti is terrible. if its not a shithole, like trump claims, the shithole countries dont exist. the people are wonderful, country is fucking shithole. i was there for 10 days and it was a struggle to even find safe food to eat. haiti is a filthy shithole. port-au-prince is the largest city in the world sithout a proper sewer system. shit just flows openly in canals.

border internments are not unethical. you cant just allow people to flow freely into the country. you must capture them, intern them, and deport them. they have no right to just ignore our border laws, the same as i dont expect to visit any other country without permission, and would expect to be locked up if i didnt respect their borders.

so maybe trump is vile or racist or whatever. his policies, like the wall, not allowing open borders, not vile or unethical. the wall is stupid. its not unethical. it wont work, but if it did, it would perfectly justifiable.

regarding japan :

"They need more young workers, and they absolutely should be taking in more refugees and asylum seekers."

what if they dont want to, is that ok, ethically? says who? why?

if you mean they need more people, purely for economic benefit, young workers, etc, then fine, maybe, but thats up to them. perhaps with advances in technology they can get by as an older and lower population society. beats me, i dunno how many folks they need to maintain the lifestyle they enjoy.

see more
2 points · 1 hour ago · edited 1 hour ago

You've really got the Trump beer goggles on my friend.

I know he never achieved his stated intention to shut down all Muslims; that wasn't my point. It's how he talks more often than how he acts. Thankfully his power is not unlimited.

Say I give you everything here, and accept that the immigration policies are sound and ethical. Let's say his language about foreigners, or foreign territories doesn't bother us because it's got an "element of truth". There is still all of this to contend with.

You have to be quite wilfully ignorant to believe Trump has been anything other than a force of corruption in US politics. Can we are least agree there is more than enough smoke in Trump Tower, to be almost certain there is a fire?

Edit: regarding your question about Japan, yes just economically. Banking on technology is a big risk. The thing is Japan is already expanding its politics to attract young foreigners at least, among other things.

As for the refugees and asylum seekers, that's just international human rights, and doing your part as a member of an interconnected international community. Japan may survive or even thrive remaining partially isolationist, but it relies incredibly heavily on trade. If its major trading partners decided to withhold oil or food, they'd have Japan by the balls. Given that these partners are mostly middle eastern nations and China, this might happen if those countries begin to experience major shortages of their own, or start producing huge numbers of refugees of their own. But for now they're not the most ethical of trading partners as it is, and Japan's money is good.

Load more comments

ynthrepic commented on
felipec.wordpress.com/2019/1...
Original Poster-1 points · 9 hours ago

It's obviously not true, he's been explicitly corrected on this point at least 5 times now. I'm not sure why he'd continue to lie when everyone can read the discussion.

A complete lie.

That would simply be an invalid argument rather than the fallacious one you're assuming for.

Do you see? The argument clearly has a fallacy, and he doesn't want to admit it.

I don't want to give an absolute answer of yes or no

Do you see? The answer is obviously yes, and he doesn't say it; he will never say it.

You can do this over and over for any argument with any fallacy, he will never accept there is a fallacy.

u/ynthrepic Do you see now? Press him to provide an answer, a "yes or no" answer. He will never answer that.

see more

I don't really need an explicit yes or no answer here. I can't verify the 5+ corrections /u/mrsamsa claims to have given you, but just giving me an answer here is all I was after. He conceded we can name informal fallacies.

He considered my fairly poorly constructed argument an invalid one, rather than fallacious, which is likely true, as I'm not skilled at wording such things. But he followed that up saying assuming it could be more precisely worded, it would indeed be "textbook ad hominem".

That's good enough for me. I don't need the satisfaction of an absolute assent, and in essentially every controversy we care to talk about, there is really no such thing anyway.

I can't speak to the history or the future here, but this doesn't strike me as troll's behavior.

Original Poster-1 points · 8 hours ago

He conceded we can name informal fallacies.

He is lying. He denies the fallacy you provided, and he will deny any informal fallacy in any argument.

He considered my fairly poorly constructed argument an invalid one, rather than fallacious, which is likely true, as I'm not skilled at wording such things.

Your argument is perfectly showing a genetic fallacy. You are letting mrsamsa fool you.

I disclaimered my own argument because I knew I couldn't perfectly articulate the fallacy I wanted to convey. /u/mrsamsa recognised my intentions nonetheless, and conceded the presence of the ad hominem, literally describing it as 'textbook'. This could not have been a more honest move.

I did what you asked, and Mrsamsa rose to your challenge. Your claim that he is lying is itself a genetic fallacy. You're telling me to just take your word for it, despite the immediate evidence to the contrary.

I'm going to stop here, because I worry nothing will change your mind about this. You're too heavily invested in your opinion, and given the amount of time and effort you have put in, I totally get that. But I think it's best I tag our until the next big controversy. See you, and maybe Mrsamsa there.

Load more comments

ynthrepic commented on
i.redd.it/kvty2m...
26 points · 1 day ago

You are being so ridiculous. The way you frame it, society and governments can continue making problems while a 16 year old child is tasked to solve them. That is not her job.

see more

Correct. But each to their own I guess? As long as he is supporting the same cause, he's an ally. Let's not make enemies of our allies.

ynthrepic commented on
japantoday.com/catego...
Posted by
20 points · 3 days ago

He was suddenly compelled to kill him, thinking he would be killed otherwise

Ignoring other parts of the article, I thought this was a funny quote.

It is likely the case that psychopathy runs in the family. His father may well have been right, and his son really was fully capable of murder.

Obviously, his actions were still absolutely wrong. But, this is only obvious to those of us whose intrinsic empathy means we could never possibly even consider something like preemptive murder, let alone of a family member.

These sorts of diagnoses matter because others in the family could be at risk. It also will determine the father's prognosis when it comes to rehabilitation (not that the Japanese justice system has a reputation for caring about that).

ynthrepic commented on

There is no way they'd give her a visa unless she promised not to criticize the CCP. So yeah, good luck with that.

She's white and privileged, but that does not change her message. There really is no way for her to "gain cred" on her own. We need other people from those communities to add their voices.

ynthrepic commented on
27 points · 7 days ago

Some have said it's only the trolls who have a problem with the new moderation. I don't think that's true. Many have legitimate concerns that shouldn't be dismissed as 'the complainings of detractors'.

see more
-16 points · 7 days ago

And yet no one actually quotes him or presents evidence. It all seems like defamation of a mod who is doing his job with some actual commitment.

We quote him and provide evidence in every thread.

-8 points · 7 days ago

Show me.

Load more comments

ynthrepic commented on
2 points · 8 days ago

A podcast I listen to... The Film Vault only takes ads from products they like. And often don't have ads. But they have a Amazon affiliate link. And Patreon for spoilers and a monthly extra show. I don't do patreon for them.

see more

Sam got kicked off Amazon for his views. Patreon was also likely to end up kicking him off.

ynthrepic commented on

It's a strange decision that will limit his reach for sure. But I suspect the most important content will be in the first half. If he accompanies it with more afterwords and housekeeping for paying subscribers, rather that reducing free content, everyone will be winners, especially those who have supported him since the beginning.

ynthrepic commented on
youtu.be/dAH4zG...

But you might have 1 2 3 4 5 6 Ms in there.

ynthrepic commented on

Hatred by who ? I thought even the chuds had a tolerance for it.

I too am interested to see the hate. We all have a habit of thinking there is more outrage than is actually the case. Damn the internet for empowering vocal minorities! (But also praise it I guess? Haha)

7

This is among those topics that Sam has touched on especially well in The Moral Landscape, that I wish he would spend a lot more time talking about. I believe this topic may be fundamental to solving the vast majority of our global issues - which are all, at some level, social issues, in that they must be solved by humans cooperating.

Psychopathy may affect something like 1% of the global population to some degree. I think it really is the single most undermentioned phenomenon facing us as a society, and yet very few commentators insist on it being the root cause of any of our major concerns. We all speak as if everyone is capable of caring, when we know that a significant number of people, between 0.1 and 1.5% (perhaps more if we just look at specific traits) may well not be. The fact that we argue among each other so much without considering some people simply cannot be reached, means we make more problems for ourselves, and suddenly it looks like everyone who disagrees with us must be crazy or a psychopath - and honestly I think that's how they have succeeded so well.

It's about so much more than just empathy, but our entire suite of emotional and social faculties which are intrinsic to what differentiates our healthy minds from theirs. Depending on where a psychopath falls on the spectrum, they just don't care and cannot find the want or will to care about the vast majority of social justice issues. It just isn't a part of how they are built. What many of them do care about though, are various hedonistic pleasures, including every depravity you can think of, along with an almost ubiquitous zeal for power and dominance. While that does require cooperation with the rest of us, if they could cheat, lie, or otherwise deceive their way to getting what they want, they will do so without hesitation if they think they can get away with it, or they may be the type that thrive on the risk of getting caught, or on the attention of actually being caught. Their motivations are literally just what occurs to them (what else could they be, as Sam would say), and since they still retain all of the other fundamental needs, and all the same variety of personality and personal interests, they can apply all of the rationality of how to solve a problem, to the full exclusion of any externalities that will not threaten the plan.

Of course, I suspect the vast majority of people who are on the psychopathy spectrum retain enough of their empathetic center, or at least have come to believe - as a result perhaps of keen intelligence, a healthy domestic environment, a society with strong social norms, and a good education - that at least behaving and acting in accordance with social norms is the most rational way to live. But, that also means there is a good chance they'll simply emulate the prevailing norms, which may not be ethical norms at all. Again, when we expect their ranges of intelligence and other skills to be as equally diverse as our own, it remains very unclear who and who isn't a sociopath deep down. While they may have certain tendencies, such as to be naturally charismatic, most charismatic people are unlikely to be psychopaths. But there is another 1% among whom it is clear to me the majority must be sociopaths. I am referring of course to the very richest people in society, who appear to have rode the capitalistic freight train into global dominance and have - for eons perhaps - enjoyed playing their own power games at the expense of everyone and everything else.

What inspired this latest desire for me to have this discussion was my immediate reaction to the whole Blizzard Activision incident. This reaction was, "who in the fuck would have thought this was a good idea? Taking away a legitimate winner's money because he supports a cause he believes in, all because of the threat of losing money from those 5% of your investors who are Chinese. Then I read everyone's outraged comments, and saw how everyone else is wondering as well, and complaining about our important social values as if they think the people at Blizzard who made this decision are actually capable of caring. But they're not. They're sociopaths. They must be. And that means the only reason they will do anything in response to all this push-back from gamers, is because it might end up doing more financial damage than bowing down to China ever could. They'll call up their top developers and spokes people - who they know have the reputational clout along with the necessary emotional concern - and get them to appease the masses with what will actually be genuine apologies.

I don't know what the solution to psychopathy and sociopathy is, but I do think we need to start thinking about how we can live in peace alongside our psychopathic brethren, while somehow dismantling their control over capitalism. It's a mighty tall order, and I have no idea where to start. One idea that springs to mind is again just raising attention to the issue. But I also think, as I do about many such things, that the taboo needs to be lifted. We need to be able to first come to learn, and then decide it is rational to admit that we might be psychopaths. I have never heard someone say this or anything that would imply it matter-of-factly, such that I really believe they are. For whatever reason, those who know (and many surely must) almost never deign it to be pragmatic to reveal. And I don't blame them; not given how successful they can be if they keep it a secret. We need to shape our society such that such success becomes all but impossible.

There's more to it though; we need to live alongside them because they're a part of the human community, just like all the other oft maligned groups which includes LGBTQI peoples, those with various philias, and so on. We're a diverse group, and it's quite possible that all of these seeming "abnormalities" are in their own way fundamental to our success. After all, capitalism wouldn't work without sociopaths, and capitalism is indisputably responsible for bringing us modern medicine, modern technology, and thus the means to raise the average standards of living the world over (if only by accident; since it wouldn't have happened if it didn't help meet their own goals).

In any case, that is all to say that we must find a way to accept and live with the problem openly. Most people with psychopathy are very likely to be good people, or are at least trying to be their best selves for those others that they do care about. I think we need to be able to readily admit to others that we do not understand why, for example, that caring for others may be good for its own sake. That way we may actually be made aware of just how differently our own mind might work compared to those of others. Rationally motivated empathy is better than none at all, and fortunately there are very good arguments (such as those in The Moral Landscape) that posit rational bases for why the most moral choices are often the best ones. Together with this, we need to get much better at detecting the problem, and shaping our institutions around it - for example our prison and legal justice systems. What deters or rehabilitates one, may have no effect, or even the opposite effect, on the other.

Anyway, I'd like to go on and talk about how ignoring the problem of psychopaths could really lead to those distopias we imagine in cinema (and then I'll stop - this is getting book sized, haha).

The distopian future I think most likely is the one we see in the movie Elysium. Sam has come very close to stating this plainly, but stops short for some reason: Automation may lead to the working and middle classes not only becoming universally unemployed, but literally redundant human beings in the scheme of a functional capitalism, and that means they (which is to say we) will no longer be needed by the ruling sociopathic elite. If technology gets good enough, they'll be able to produce almost everything they need to live without us, and so we will become expendable. And I don't mean this as some "NWO" conspiracy, because they're not new, and I don't think it's actually planned - it just makes the most financial sense given a lack of caring about human life. I mean if you lost 50% of the global population but retained the world's best teachers, scientists, technologists, and engineers, that would drastically reduce the load on our earth's resources. Meanwhile, if the earth doesn't survive the purge, at least they can all retreat to Jeff Bezos's orbital paradise, while robots continue to mine the planet for energy and resources, and those of us who remain, fight among ourselves for the leftovers whenever we're not running or hiding from the robots. Anyway, I very much enjoy works of fiction in this vein for sure, but I really do hope it remains science fiction and nothing more.

7
16 comments
0 points · 17 days ago · edited 17 days ago

Douglas Murray, the hero of this subreddit populated by incel wastes, is probably a psychopath.

see more
Original Poster1 point · 16 days ago

Do you have any sauce to go with that claim? Your post reads as just pure ad hominem otherwise. Not to mention abusing our members.

I believe you are wrong as Douglas has expressed very salient emotional convictions in support of human well being in many of his conversations. Honestly, I suspect you just don't like some of his ideas.

Also, my hero is Natalie Wynn, and I still like Douglas Murray. Square that circle for me :)

ynthrepic commented on
Posted by
195 points · 20 days ago

Only Japan has four seasons.

-23 points · 20 days ago · edited 19 days ago

Japan is one of the few that might have 5 or sometimes 6 seasons, combining tropical rainy/dry seasons, with the usual four.

Also what people really mean by the whole "four seasons" thing are the contrasts between seasons being so severe in most places, which is not something many countries can lay claim to.

Edit: Jesus people love to down vote here. What exactly is the problem?

the contrasts between seasons being so severe in most places, which is not something many countries can lay claim to.

Pretty sure most places on Earth can actually.

see more

Countries that get both a white Christmas and 1-2m snow for months in end, as well as balmy summers, are pretty rare.

Many countries have mostly evergreen trees that never change for spring, and flows of various kinds grow throughout the year. There is no spring explosion of life. Nevermind the monsoon ok top of it as well. No Japan has some reason to claim a uniquely diverse climate. No need for anyone to be salty about it lol.

Load more comments

99

I contacted Blizzard support today after experiencing an unauthorized purchase from them on my PayPal account. Using the invoice number on the transaction, they were able to identify the account linked to my PayPal. It seemed initially that they wanted me to contact my bank or PayPal, rather than refund the purchase directly, but whether I misunderstood, or whether my willingness to escalate, they changed their minds and processed the refund. So all is well that ends well; however, there were some glaring security concerns that arose here:

  • They told me they could not look up accounts on their system, via the PayPal payment method - they can do so with a credit card, but not PayPal. This means they cannot assure me my PayPal account is not linked to any other accounts.

  • They can't tell me when my PayPal account became associated with this other account. Therefore,

  • They can't universally remove my PayPal account from their system, even if I ask them to.

Is there a spokesperson for Blizzard who can assure me that this gap in their security can be plugged?

For PayPal's part (and it's PayPal that would appear to have been hacked here), I have only just reached out for support, so will post an update when I get a response. But my PayPal account shows no evidence of an authorization to link the account to Blizzard having been made recently. There is a past transaction from 2017 which was very likely to have been me. But yesterday's bill certainly wasn't. PayPal's security section also lacks a log of logins to their system, which is rather inconvenient.

Has anyone had a similar experience to this? I don't think my debit card or PayPal account are compromised.

99
53 comments

You have to set up a paypal agreement on your Blizzard account which requires the person to log into the paypal website. It has nothing to do with the Blizzard website or the Blizzard account.

see more
Original Poster1 point · 21 days ago

You have to set up a paypal agreement on your Blizzard account

It has nothing to do with the Blizzard website or the Blizzard account.

Which one is it then?

My point is that Blizzard should be able to identify when one PayPal account has been used with multiple accounts. They can do this with credit card, but not with PayPal.

This is useful for many reasons, not least of which is removing a payment method universally.

2 points · 21 days ago · edited 21 days ago

In the Blizzard account you simply pick Paypal as the payment method and then go to a Paypal page to log in. You never actually type your paypal email into the blizzard site. It's all done through the Paypal website. Just teh same as how you can use your blizzard account to log into wowhead using their OAuth set up, you're never giving details to them directly.

As for credit card, big companies use a merchant, a middle man basically. They handle the credit card details and do all the banking side fo things. Through that merchant interface, tracking can be done.

see more
Original Poster1 point · 21 days ago

I accept that, but it still makes sense to know PayPal IDs, at least emails. The same as how Blizzard can look up credit cards by last four digits.

This makes it possible to identify where payment methods are being used and remove them from accounts if needed. Once they had located the account (they had to use the invoice number) they could then remove my PayPal from the compromised account. Without that invoice number, they would have been unable to identify which account had made the purchase.

Load more comments

ynthrepic commented on

You're actually the one who brings it up. I got "triggered" by the reaction of the Left when it happened... and it was clearly warranted considering the Left has become a cult of dishonest virtue signalling since then.

It's funny that you project your own behavior on me. Weren't you bringing the Ben Affleck thing up every thread for a while, no matter how unrelated?

By the way. You are obviously part of the cult I'm referring to and you are simply an ideologue attempting to prevent honest discussion. That Sartre quote does work here. Thank you for your attempt!

see more

r/samharrisorg? I think it's worth joining us there just for those times you're not keen on all the usual dishonesty. I stay on this sub, but find I'm less interested in wading into the swamp than before. 'tis exhausting.

Yeah. I honestly too peruse that sub every now and then. But on another note, I told myself I'd use your questions to refresh my ideas about the HP of Consciousness. I have to get to that since it would be worthwhile for both of us! I've been slacking!

see more

Haha please do!

ynthrepic commented on
twitter.com/OnTaka...
16 points · 23 days ago

ITADAKIMASU

Morau

Nice

Nice

ynthrepic commented on

To actually answer your question, I don't know if Christian's reputation could survive going after Yang (he's not that well known AFAIK?), and I think there are plenty of other people more likely to damage Yang by pointing out his relationship to Sam Harris. Never mind Yang has also been on Rogan and Rubin.

If the far/regressive left comes after Yang, I think that it will be the best example of their idiocy to date, and a poster for how our cultural zeitgeist needs to get back on track.

FWIW Christian is still a good voice on the subject of white supremacy regardless of the spat. Just not a very honest interlocutor it seems. But since when has the left cared about intellectual honesty? lol

5 points · 24 days ago

Not sure that’s a fair line of attack

Agree it's unfair. But it's hard to fault Sam here. I probably expect too much from Sam as it is, to expect he will be the one to mend every relationship.

They had a good conversation, and that podcast still stands as a good source of information on the topic. That's good enough I say.

ynthrepic commented on

Does anybody know if the fish are ok?

What about people's Teslas?

ynthrepic commented on

Lots to unpack here. First off, thank you for your replies and engagement. It allows me to think more deeply about and stress-test positions I hold and that’s incredibly useful.
Basically, I have two... not even objections, but concerns with your take. You could even accuse me of concern-trolling, were you so inclined, and that’s part of the problem. But first the concerns:

Concern the First: regarding your ‘legitimate use-case of the pejorative’. I mostly agree with this, like intellectually, but it runs into the same problem I outlined above: how do you differentiate intellectual dishonesty from legitimate cognitive bias? The accusation of ‘virtue-signalling’ almost always presumes knowledge of a person’s motives that we can’t possibly have. Furthermore, how do you ensure that others using the term are using the same amount amount of investigative rigour as you (presumably) are, and not just using it as a lazy way to swat down ideas they don’t agree with? For example, Chelsea Handler recently got a lot of flack on this sub following her podcast, and the term was dropped a lot (ironically, Sam himself had predicted the accusation of virtue-signalling, and his fan base was quick to prove him right). But I seriously doubt any of those accusers a) watched the documentary she was interviewing Sam for, or b) could claim with any certainty what her motivations were. (I watched it; it was pretty good.) So, to be clear, I think it’s fair to say something like ‘Ezra Klein had it demonstratively proven that his website had posted defamatory articles about Sam Harris that had no basis in fact’, and I think it’s problematic to say ‘Ezra Klein was virtue-signalling when he said X’.

Okay. (Whew. Sorry about this. This is long.)

Concern the Second: regarding your ‘justifiable or legitimate use of virtue-signalling’, I definitely think it’s something we all do, and I know for certain I’ve done it myself as a sort of pre-emptive measure. On this sub even, I’ve prefaced criticisms by laying out that Sam Harris is a personal hero of mine, has changed my life, I use his meditation app daily, etc.
But it runs into the same problems as so much in our modern discourse: if the people we’re talking to aren’t arguing in good faith, or don’t believe that we are, then they can easily disregard this credential or proof of our ‘in-groupness’. After all, it’s a pretty common troll tactic to claim to be a part of the group to attack the group. Concern trolling, which I mentioned before.

It’s a goddamned mess, in other words, and I have no solution. But I have an intense dislike for the term, and mistrust it’s usage as a further poison in our already toxic public discourse.

TLDR, we basically agree, except where we don’t, and that’s okay.

see more

how do you differentiate intellectual dishonesty from legitimate cognitive bias? The accusation of ‘virtue-signalling’ almost always presumes knowledge of a person’s motives that we can’t possibly have.

Cognitive bias isn't much better than outright dishonesty. Neither is particularly good excuse for virtue-signalling to take place in lieu of engaging with potentially valid arguments that might upset your audience.

We don't normally accuse our opponent of virtue signalling unless it is our goal to reveal their bias or dishonesty which is serving their audience rather than the argument.

As an example, let's say I came to you with what I thought was good evidence that homosexuality is strongly correlated with eating peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. If your reaction was to say, "well it's clear no matter what the evidence, we can't tell people not to eat PBJ Sandwiches, because there is nothing wrong with being homosexual." instead of addressing my claims, that would perhaps warrant the accusation. This is because it's very likely this view you have just expressed is held by both of us. It might not be a response intended for me, but intended for your audience.

After all, it’s a pretty common troll tactic to claim to be a part of the group to attack the group.

Well, hence my claim of it being a kind of virtue signalling. If we can count on our opponents (and allies) to be intellectually honest, we wouldn't ever need to do it.

43
43
12 comments

Has Eric ever explained who supposedly used Epstein to fund researchers? Using a billionaire playboy to finance science seems like a rather odd idea to me.

see more
Original Poster1 point · 25 days ago

I don't think finding science was the primary concern. It was a philanthropic smokescreen for whatever other seedy shit he was getting up to.

2 points · 28 days ago

Completely agree, and I think Sam puts his finger on that at one point; that because of the conspiracy thinking they are operating from a separate set of 'facts'. I think that Eric would have done well to think harder about what Sam was saying with regards to there being non-conspiratorial answers to some of the things Eric was reading something sinister into, however he was getting a bit agitated at the time I think and I'm not sure the point landed.

see more
Original Poster1 point · 27 days ago

They really had different goals. Sam cares directly about well-being and that often means glossing over the details and focusing on the root causes and basic principles. Sam is continually having to entertain Eric's position more than Eric truly entertain's Sam's, and it's quite fascinating. Why can't Eric just outright acknowledge that Trump is a narcissistic liar? Sam is happy to concede the why of Trump's being elected. But Eric is unable to agree without reservation that Trump himself is a terrible human being. Simple agreements on obvious truths like this do a lot to progress the conversation.

ynthrepic commented on
reuters.com/articl...

How do you trade sanction someone whose trade you need more than they need yours?

You can sanction in others ways. Sieze or freeze foreign assets, prevent mainland Chinese travel out of China, and threaten military retaliation if China threatens to cease necessary trade, all on condition of meeting the protesters demands.

Which we must remember are perfectly reasonable demands. They're not even asking to separate from China. They pretty much just want to stay as they are with less oversight. China is scared they will go further. But if they had free trade with China and good social relations, leaving would be a stupid as Brexit.

u/ynthrepic
Karma
24,809
Cake day
November 9, 2011

Moderator of these communities

r/samharrisorg

1.4k members

r/DouglasMurray

361 members

Trophy Case (6)

Eight-Year Club

Gilding I

gilder

Alpha Tester