3da1aa (8) No.900343[Last 50 Posts]>>900405 >>900456 >>900504 >>900571 >>900755 >>900837 >>900944 >>900965 >>900966 >>900974 >>901089 >>901143 >>901177 >>901483 >>901491 >>901518 >>901699 >>901806 >>901825 >>901995 >>902080 >>902094 >>902118 >>902262 >>902370 >>902387 >>902408 >>902422 >>902459 >>903572 >>911541 >>911578 >>913583 [Watch Thread]
Hi. Im a communist.
There seems to be a lot of confusion about "Cultural Marxism" and all this shit. Cultural marxism is not supported by communists because it's an idealistic ideology that actually goes against marxism, a materialistic ideology.
Communists also hate SJWs because you guys call them leftists when they aren't even anti capitalists. This gives us a bad rep and they are probably part of some COINTELPRO plot to dismantle the left. Granted, some SJWs are social democrats but social democrats are like the retarded little autistic kid of leftism that everyone tries to forget about. Marx refused to work with reformists and social democrats, what you would call modern day "Leftists" and "Cultural Marxists."
I would be happy to answer any questions you have about what communists actually believe in. I personally am a Libertarian socialist. I am not here to argue, but to clear up any misconceptions you have and answer questions about true leftism. It cannot hurt to be more educated about your opponent.
3da1aa (8) No.900396>>902422
Bump
821ce3 (5) No.900405>>900505 >>900534 >>901681 >>903728
>>900343 (OP)Why do you like socialism? What purpose or personal goals do socialists have that differ from the next socialist?
Why do socialost support people who don't do anything (lazy people)???
3d18a9 (1) No.900456>>900534
>>900343 (OP)Of course there's a difference between what communism is, and what your conception of it is, so it might be better for you to just lay out your own bullet points and go from there….
9a32ec (3) No.900486>>900534 >>900665
No true scottsman
>no true communist
>no true socialist
>no true muslim
>no true kike
>no true leftist
/thread
8ba1f8 (1) No.900504>>900597 >>901525 >>902466
>>900343 (OP)Sorry buddy, your ideology got taken over by a competition to see who's the biggest victim. Find one communist group that is not now explicitly "anti-racist" "feminist" and "pro-gay rights."
That's what you fucking get for basing you're ideology on "waaaaaaaah I'm being oppressed."
2eebcf (5) No.900505>>900534
>>900405Why dont you like socialism? National socialism
3da1aa (8) No.900534>>900601 >>900619 >>900626 >>900732 >>901460
>>900405I like socialism because I believe that it is just common sense. Who doesn't want more control over their workplace? Some communists may want nationalized industry, but I personally think that the people in an industry should democratically control it, similar to a trade union or a worker co-op. This was done in Catalonia and it greatly increased production.
>Why do socialists support people who don't workIn short, we don't. Everyone will have the opportunity for work under socialism and if you don't work, you don't eat. If there is somehow no work for you anywhere, then you should be provided for.
>>900456>>900486Let me guess you get mad when communists say the soviet union wasn't "Real Communism" and call it a no true scotsman. It's not a scotsman when you have an actual definition that does not change. Also there have been examples of socialism. Catalonia, Ukraine, Paris commune, etc. They were all crushed by the bourgeoisie and sometimes even the Soviet Union though.
>>900505National socialism is not socialism. There was still private property and classes.
d5d77c (3) No.900571
>>900343 (OP)Holy shit. Can we make this a Laughter Yoga thread? What the fuck is this sign of the end times madness?
3da1aa (8) No.900597>>902422
>>900504Zapatistas, Naxalites, Socialist Alternative. Socialism is inherently feminist, if you take feminist to mean gender equality. I assume you are talking about SJWs. There are very few SJWs who are actually anticapitalist. Most communist groups have been taken over by reformist social democrats who aren't actually anticapitalist, in fact, social democrats are closer to fascism than they are to communism. The reason reformists appear to be more popular among the left is because they are an excellent tool for the bourgeoisie to appease the proletariat.
2eebcf (5) No.900601>>900669
>>900534>National socialism is not socialism.But it is
d5d77c (3) No.900609>>902422
DARK SIDED
9a32ec (3) No.900619>>900669
>>900534>the soviet union>"Real Communism"What about all the other ones that are "not really communistic", including many further east?
They're all shitholes.
>They were all crushed by the bourgeoisie and sometimes even the Soviet Union though.Sounds like "If only the whole world were X, then X would work" which is common for all inhuman ideologies.
5cbc6f (2) No.900626>>900669 >>900673
>>900534National socialism is socialism with national pride thrown in. You're thinking of communism.
Socialism still has private shit, but people are restricted in how much they can have, and what is taken is supposed to be given to the poor. Communism completely abolishes the idea, everything is everyone's. The world would be one big timeshare.
ebd329 (1) No.900665
>>900486This. Humans will never be perfect and stay within their small boxes of labels. Which is why OP is so ignorant to believe he can waltz around, claim "that isn't communism", and waltz back out. Sorry pal, but it's how communism was (and is) executed.
Just like feminism. One can claim "look at the definition", but see how it's actually executed in the world. Sadly I don't think OP is going to understand this.
3da1aa (8) No.900669>>900706 >>900758 >>911592
>>900601>Socialism>A classless, moneyless society where the workers control the means of productionDid Germany even have one of those things?
>>900619Soviet union and Stalin were actually a lot better than most people think but I don't support them still. Stalin actually tried for his whole career to implement democratic reforms that would have allowed them to reach true socialism but the bureaucracy opposed him.
>If only the whole world were xIf it wasn't for Francisco Franco it's highly likely the Catalonian Revolution would have succeeded. It wasn't something that required a whole lot to change for it to succeed.
>>900626This is so wrong in so many ways. Karl marx is turning in his grave.
1a4c08 (1) No.900670>>900681
>Hi. I'm in highschool.
2eebcf (5) No.900673>>901265
>>900626Some communists does not bother to educate themselves on meaning of words.
Not like they will get pay raise for effort.
9dd9dd (1) No.900674>>900688 >>900729
THIS IS OFFICIALLY A LAUGHING YOGA THREAD
Sorry OP but when you make a thread make sure the topic is more interesting than the file uploaded.
2eebcf (5) No.900688
>>900674Yoga is no laughing matter!!!
ae18b8 (3) No.900702
Why should people have more control over their workplace? The business owner is providing them with a job and a means to make money. Bad business owners would not be able to keep employees or stay in business if they provide bad working conditions for their workers. If they do provide bad working conditions, and people still choose to work there, then they either aren't smart enough to know better or the labor they are doing is in great supply or low demand.
2eebcf (5) No.900706
>>900669>Karl marx is turning in his grave.good for him
2b59ce (2) No.900727>>901900
Why do you think that people are equal?
Why do you think that all forces can be reduced to economic ones?
Why do you deny your spiritual nature?
d5d77c (3) No.900729
>>900674infantilism yay :DDDDDD
821ce3 (5) No.900732>>900791 >>901900
>>900534If I'm a business owner why the hell would I share part of my hard work of building the business with people who did nothing to help build the business from the start? I would pay them minimum wage, but why would I give them a bigger role of ownership in the business? If they worked hard over time then they get a raise, depending on their quality of work, hard work. That's the thing about wages, if your working hard I can reward you. Socialist business is like if this person works hard we'll reward everyone evenly at the same time even the cunts who do their work mediocrely…. Doesn't make sense to underestimate somebody's ability by rewarding everyone. It doesn't seem natural.
96c7e0 (1) No.900755>>900791
>>900343 (OP)Libertarian socialist and national socialist are not so far apart.. Natsoc emphasizes meta cultural themes like race/societal unity
fdcf3a (2) No.900758>>900791
>>900669>Socialism>A classless, moneyless society where the workers control the means of productionJesus, you'd expect someone who calls themselves a Libertarian Socialist would understand the difference between Communism and Socialism. Reread Marx, motherfucker.
The Socialist tendencies of National Socialism is easy to see. The monetary system was not built around a bank/profit motive but rather around the labor of the country itself, essentially the labor value of all industry. The market itself is completely organized by a quasi-vanguard party. To act like the fact that it has money and utilizes some market principles is basically shutting your ears and singing, pretending things like Market Socialism doesn't exist.
4dc0a3 (1) No.900776
>>900681>could u fucking notWouldn't you like to know? ;)
3da1aa (8) No.900791>>900852 >>900878 >>900912 >>901272 >>901641 >>901709 >>902591
Why should peasants be allowed to participate? The lord is providing them with a job and a means to subsist. Bad lords would not be able to keep peasants or stay in business if they provide bad working conditions for their peasants. If they do provide bad working conditions, and people still choose to work there, then they either aren't smart enough to know better or the labor they are doing is in great supply or low demand.
>>900732>Socialist buisness is like if this person works hard we'll reward everyone evenly at the same time even the cunts who do their work mediocrely…. Doesn't make sense to underestimate somebody's ability by rewarding everyone. It doesn't seem natural.This isn't how it would work. If some cunt is slacking off than the other workers can come and tell him to shape up or he is out.
>>900758Holy shit you have no idea what you are talking about.
>>900755Natsocialism is an idealist ideology. That alone makes it opposed to marxism.
4fb464 (18) No.900832
You are just a dumbass who has not upgraded from a 19th century ideology to the present day. Cultural Marxists are the patched version of Marxism to get rid of the bugs and glitches, but orthodox Marxists are still running the outdated program that doesn't take modern world into account. Cultural Marxists are just smart enough to adjust tactics while old Marxists are having delusions of proletariat revolutions and other nonsense. Not that it matters, since they are all idiots either way who have a fundamentally flawed simple-minded ideology not based in reality.
10d571 (1) No.900837
fdcf3a (2) No.900852
>>900791>Holy shit you have no idea what you are talking aboutYep, I should have used "read" instead of "reread." You legit think Socialism is classless and moneyless. You'd think you'd not be retarded on the one thing you're supposed to know anything about.
4fb464 (18) No.900855
Also left does not equate to anticapitalist except to dumbshit Marxists who just change the meaning of words willy nilly.
821ce3 (5) No.900878
>>900791>This isn't how it would work. If some cunt is slacking off than the other workers can come and tell him to shape up or he is out.But now you're costing everyone money because it costs a lot of money and time to train somebody new..
It would be even more of a problem if more than one person was slacking.
ae18b8 (3) No.900912
>>900791They pretty much are peasants. In a Capitalistic society, they have the free choice to start their own business! Wow, what a concept. No ideas for a business? No skills?
We will always need ditch diggers.
People are not equal. Never have been, never will be. That's why there are employers and employees. Kings and peasants. Slavers and slaves. It's a story as old as time, literally.
9c7f1a (7) No.900944
>>900343 (OP)Supposedly, the cultural marxists took over because the workers decided national and cultural loyalty was more important to them than collective ownership over the means of production.
If you guys got your shit together, they would never have taken over the left.
e691e0 (1) No.900948>>901003 >>901008 >>901026
Hitler's socialism ment people being equal regardless of their income. A worker ment just as much to the nation as a factory owner.
b88576 (1) No.900959
They are leftists, Lenin called them that way in his famous essay “Left-Wing” Communism: an Infantile Disorder.
92dfc8 (4) No.900965
>>900343 (OP)>>900343 (OP)Hi, what do you think about nationalism? (and I do not mean supremacism with that)
A nation or a union of like minded nations/ populations is stabel and does not succumb to infighting and civil war so fast if times get rougher.
Further through the emphasis on independence a nationalist country tries to produce most of its goods on its own ground, preserving jobs and industry, opposing globalisation and increasing the chance of socialist revolutions happening because the proletariat is only divided by class and not by skincolour, religion and ethnicity.
Furthermore, through the increased need of indigenous work, the drift into decadency and stagnation gets hindered, because the working class does not get outsourced to asia and comes into contact with the middle of society which shares a common cultural background.
Multiculturalism gnaws at the foundations of these pillars of society.
Why are most pure leftists so hellbent on merging cultures and opening borders?
Shouldnt communism or its less radical brethen socialism have a hard on for nonimperialst nationalism?
92dfc8 (4) No.900966
>>900343 (OP)Hi, what do you think about nationalism? (and I do not mean supremacism with that)
A nation or a union of like minded nations/ populations is stabel and does not succumb to infighting and civil war so fast if times get rougher.
Further through the emphasis on independence a nationalist country tries to produce most of its goods on its own ground, preserving jobs and industry, opposing globalisation and increasing the chance of socialist revolutions happening because the proletariat is only divided by class and not by skincolour, religion and ethnicity.
Furthermore, through the increased need of indigenous work, the drift into decadency and stagnation gets hindered, because the working class does not get outsourced to asia and comes into contact with the middle of society which shares a common cultural background.
Multiculturalism gnaws at the foundations of these pillars of society.
Why are most pure leftists so hellbent on merging cultures and opening borders?
Shouldnt communism or its less radical brethen socialism have a hard on for nonimperialst nationalism?
92dfc8 (4) No.900974>>900998
>>900343 (OP)Hi, what do you think about nationalism? (and I do not mean supremacism with that)
A nation or a union of like minded nations/ populations is stabel and does not succumb to infighting and civil war so fast if times get rougher.
Further through the emphasis on independence a nationalist country tries to produce most of its goods on its own ground, preserving jobs and industry, opposing globalisation and increasing the chance of socialist revolutions happening because the proletariat is only divided by class and not by skincolour, religion and ethnicity.
Furthermore, through the increased need of indigenous work, the drift into decadency and stagnation gets hindered, because the working class does not get outsourced to asia and comes into contact with the middle of society which shares a common cultural background.
Multiculturalism gnaws at the foundations of these pillars of society.
Why are most pure leftists so hellbent on merging cultures and opening borders?
Shouldnt communism or its less radical brethen socialism have a hard on for nonimperialst nationalism?
74bdfc (1) No.900993
Why don't you just become a traditional National Socialist then. With the added feature of racial realism, none of that egalitarian bullshit.
92dfc8 (4) No.900998
>>900974Fuck sorry for the triple post, my internet is lagging and I felt hte need to repeat my post.
821ce3 (5) No.901003
>>900948That may be true during war but Business owners have learned the trade over time for success though so why is it fair to disregard his hardwork and knowledge? When does their hardwork payoff?
4fb464 (18) No.901008
>>900948National socialism was pre-Marxist conception of socialism. Most commies don't know that socialism existed before Marx derailed it into retard fairy land fantasies of historical materialism, since commies are mostly ignorant of history (that isn't Marxist history), philosophy (that isn't Marxist philosophy), and so on. It is because Marxism is only for narrow minded monomaniacal cretins with no broad understanding of anything.
5ebd14 (1) No.901026>>901100
>>900948But Hitler's Socialism was more a corporate welfare state; there was no "Workers Rights."
c8ba26 (1) No.901089>>901256
>>900343 (OP)how does it feel knowing that capitalist globalization is the single thing that supposedly did the most to further a theoretical marxist revolution?
this is somewhat related
>The Mensheviks subscribed to an Orthodox Marxist view of social and economic development, believing that socialism could not be achieved in Russia due to its backward economic conditions, and that Russia would first have to experience a bourgeois revolution and go through a capitalist stage of development before socialism was technically possible and before the working class was able to develop the necessary consciousness for a socialist revolution.[8] The Mensheviks were thus opposed to the Bolshevik idea of a Vanguard party and pursuit of socialist revolution in Russia.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mensheviksit's like very little communists have ever read the manifesto…
4fb464 (18) No.901100
>>901026There were workers' rights.
213d9e (1) No.901120>>901173
>A classless society free of hate.
How are commutards different from Anarchist kids again?
97ec03 (1) No.901143>>901168
>>900343 (OP)> Im a communist.You are evil and should be killed.
821ce3 (5) No.901168
2c02d8 (2) No.901173
>>901120they wont opression
684132 (1) No.901256>>901746
>>901089Because those who do read it know that Marx advocated that the oppressed kill the oppressors and that cycle should repeat until there is a perfect classless society,that would mean that humanity has been brought down to the lowest common denominator,but in reality the oppressed are oppressed because they are weak.Strong always oppress the weak its the simple natural order.
5cbc6f (2) No.901265
>>900673>google 'socialism'>jewpedia because it's ez>'"social ownership"(can mean various things) of the means of production'>private property ownership varied by regime in charge
>google 'communism>jewpedia again>private property not existing is a core belief of the system
>google 'national socialism'>jewpedia because fuck you>'nationalistic redefinition of socialism'>combo of free market capitalism and socialismwhere was i wrong? or is it wikipedia?
ea470e (3) No.901272
>>900791>Natsocialism is an idealist ideology. That alone makes it opposed to marxism.>implying that Marxism is not idealistic dream. d5fa61 (1) No.901300
Communism would probably have been the best but technology changed and maslows hierarchy of needs lifted and it serves no purpose as of now. Perhaps it will be adoptable a hundred or so years from now when overpopulation is insane, or we may just colonize space.
ea470e (3) No.901395>>901414 >>901424 >>901452
pic explain it all.
630276 (1) No.901414>>901792
2c02d8 (2) No.901424>>901792
>>901395Jesus, ben stiller turned into an ant couldnt see that
3da1aa (8) No.901452
>>901395My only Response. Also didn't you guys get the message? It's laughter yoga thread.
5056c4 (3) No.901460
>>900534>national socialism is not socialismchrist you guys are morons
3ca3d8 (1) No.901483
>>900343 (OP)>Other communists don't agree with my definition of communism!Guess you'll just have to murder each other, like every other communist paradise.
b07a7f (50) No.901491
>>900343 (OP)How are you communist, when I am "poor" and fucking love capitalism, better dead than red? is it an engrained sense of envy with no self worth? or are you just a thief?
b07a7f (50) No.901502
Or are you just a gullible retard? I would bet top dollar that you are an envious pygmy that would rather everyone be homeless than some people living decently.
729e19 (1) No.901518
>>900343 (OP)>Hi. Im a communist. Opinion = Discarded
06eccc (3) No.901525
>>900504>Israel and Tunisia are part of Europe 406668 (1) No.901574
fdf56a (1) No.901575>>902699
Lets set this straight.
Liberals or classical liberals hate that communism is how you might describe, the next step in social theory following the enlightenment.
In the same way, you hate SJWs even though they are really just the next step in your philosophy.
They have taken something you found perfectly feasible to the next level, just like you did to liberals.
So what justifies that we stop progressing at communism instead of liberalism? Other than your feelings, of course.
2b59ce (2) No.901641
>>900791>Why should peasants be allowed to participate? The lord is providing them with a job and a means to subsist. Bad lords would not be able to keep peasants or stay in business if they provide bad working conditions for their peasants. If they do provide bad working conditions, and people still choose to work there, then they either aren't smart enough to know better or the labor they are doing is in great supply or low demand.But that's right
7688f6 (7) No.901681>>901716 >>901736
>>900405Lazy people who refuse to work end up in gulags
fce161 (1) No.901699
>>900343 (OP)How/why do you draw the distinction between the bourgeoisie and proletariat when the two overlap? Ie. A business owner who works in his own shop/factory or the working class economically risen to the state of the bourgeois/middle class?
9a32ec (3) No.901709
>>900791>This isn't how it would work. If some cunt is slacking off than the other workers can come and tell him to shape up or he is out.Because Motivation via the threat of punishment and social pressure, sounds great.
Inhuman shit ideology.
b07a7f (50) No.901716>>901725
>>901681Communism, doesn't exist, might as well try to make a political party that consists of everyone being the same intelligence, moral virtue, and aptitude, or how about a political party of supermen? that is how retarded communism is, it's fantasy.
1ff61a (35) No.901725>>901751
>>901716Same could be said of the free market.
eb7bca (3) No.901736
>>901681You pretend the work, the state pretends to pay you.
1138c8 (9) No.901746>>901796
>>901256Indeed, which is why the strong Jew has his boot on your fat Aryan neck.
b07a7f (50) No.901751>>901768 >>901782
>>901725HAHAHA, how is the free market a fantasy? Spoiler: You're living in it!
1ff61a (35) No.901768>>901782
>>901751There is no such thing as a "free market".
>notice how people like anon will also complain about governmental regulations all the time 1ff61a (35) No.901782
>>901768>>901751In other words, mercantilism has been the name of the game since ever.
5056c4 (3) No.901796>>901801
>>901746>to become the master race, aryans had to first eliminate the true master race 5056c4 (3) No.901801
ec255b (2) No.901806>>901814 >>901822 >>901874
>>900343 (OP)>Im a communist. >I personally am a Libertarian socialist.Maybe it's my own ignorance (I don't much care for Communism tbh) but it sounds like you're spouting nonsense.
b07a7f (50) No.901814>>901830
>>901806he wants to be an edgy pseudo intellectual thief.
1ff61a (35) No.901822
>>901806I assume he's an anarcho-communist, idk.
7730fb (2) No.901825>>901837 >>901884
>>900343 (OP)How do I reconcile my equal love for both Communist and Judeo-Christian imagery?
b07a7f (50) No.901829
pro tip: If you try to touch someones property you will get shot.
1ff61a (35) No.901830
>>901814
>LETS TAKE EVERYTHING FROM THE JEWS!!!111 1ff61a (35) No.901837>>901858
>>901825
>what is Christian Socialism b07a7f (50) No.901858>>901927
>>901837"socialism" Christian charities you thief.
b07a7f (50) No.901870>>901875
I don't understand liberals, I am much less wealthy than a majority of them, yet they cry and whine about how much the rich are making and that someone makes them entitled to more money?
1138c8 (9) No.901874>>901920
>>901806You should understand things before you reject them.
Libertarian socialist means that you want to precede straight to the stateless stage after the revolution, rather than having the dictatorship of the proletariat.
Libertarian socialists believe that all they have to do is kick the bosses out, and collapse capitalism, and then workers can just run their own businesses and form voluntary confederations of communes to solve issues and everything will be fine.
b07a7f (50) No.901875
4fb464 (18) No.901884
>>901825Convert to Judaism (if you are not already).
b07a7f (50) No.901889
>901874
Who's stopping "workers" from making their own companies?
9043ee (6) No.901900>>902039
>>900727And not a single meaningful answer was given this day.
>>900732Exactly. If these fucking liberals had ever owned their own business and tried to hack it in the real world they would quickly realize how fucking retarded their ideology is.
Fucking hell, it's like these losers are from another planet or something. All they know how to do is play semantic shell-games with terminology to conceal the fact that they just hate capitalism because they are lazy and worthless and jealous of others who actually know how to work.
ec255b (2) No.901920>>901949 >>901972 >>911639
>>901874Sounds fucking dumb.
b07a7f (50) No.901930>>901944 >>901945 >>901952
>>901927And what has Anton Lavey done wrong?
9043ee (6) No.901944
>>901930Lie to his sheeplike followers.
You know he wasn't actually an atheist, right?
7730fb (2) No.901945>>901952
>>901930He groomed himself to look like Vladimir Lenin if he was a character on the fucking Addams Family.
1138c8 (9) No.901949
b07a7f (50) No.901950>>901957
>>901927Anton is just like the KKK a social group of edgy people.
1ff61a (35) No.901952>>901966
>>901930Just saying that Randroid Christians are retarded.
>>901945lol
1ff61a (35) No.901957
b07a7f (50) No.901966>>901977 >>901982 >>901994 >>902010
>>901952How am I retarded in thinking that man is entitled to his own work?
4fb464 (18) No.901972
>>901920All communists are dumb. It is a requirement to believe such an unrealistic fairy tale.
4fb464 (18) No.901982
>>901966Because it is against scripture.
b07a7f (50) No.901989>>902027
>>901977Tell me what is wrong with my philosophy of having everyone work to the most of their capabilities, and able to manifest their destiny.
1ff61a (35) No.901994>>902009 >>902016
>>901966
>entitled to his own work
>have the products of your labor taken from you ffd3e6 (1) No.901995>>902000
>>900343 (OP)Fuck off and die, murderer.
1ff61a (35) No.902000
>>901995
>said by the Stormfag/Randroid b07a7f (50) No.902009>>902019
>>901994Was it your property?
1138c8 (9) No.902010>>902054
>>901966Because Ayn Rand's philosophy makes business owners entitled to the labor of their employees.
I mean, yes, socialism is dumb, but again this an area where it's critiques manage to be even more stupid and come up with dumb slogans that support socialism inadvertently.
Ayn Rand's Objectivism is all about the boss and private property, but the very thing private property does is ensure that you can buy property you didn't make, and hire people to utilize your property to make things and then confiscate the fruits of their labor.
Saying a man is entitled to the sweat of his brow should be a individualist socialist saying, but somehow Ayn Rand decided it fitted capitalism, even though it doesn't.
That's not to put a bad word in against capitalism, it's just that capitalism isn't about being fair to begin with. It's simply more efficient to have the boss use the abstract concept of ownership to manage labor as units of production.
b07a7f (50) No.902016
>>901994If you build your own house with your own materials, no one on earth has claim to that except you.
1ff61a (35) No.902019>>902026 >>902049
>>902009If I produced it with my sweat and labor.
b07a7f (50) No.902026>>902042
>>902019It wasn't yours and you were producing it on the employment of someone else, you were being paid.
7688f6 (7) No.902027>>902067 >>902124
>>901989You're only able to "manifest your destiny" depending on what economic level your parents had. Anarcho-capitalism would just result in feudalism all over again.
4fb464 (18) No.902039>>902067 >>902068 >>902170 >>925261
>>901900
>Marx>never worked a day in his life>Engels>never worked a day in his life>Lenin>never worked a day in his life>Trotsky>never worked a day in his life>Stalin>never worked a day in his life>trust fund babies today who play at being communist revolutionaries>never worked a day in their livesThese are the leaders of the worker's revolution.
1ff61a (35) No.902042>>902063 >>902129
>>902026thus the exploitation.
b07a7f (50) No.902049
>>902019I pay someone to fix my computer, is he entitled to my computer?
1138c8 (9) No.902054
>>902010Of course, I'll add that actually existing socialist societies stole the sweat from another's brow too, but it was simply because they turned the state into a boss.
All systems have bosses, because it's empirically efficient, and this means that ethics which focus the right to ones own efforts can only remain stuck at a stage of subsistence farming, unable to take advantage of economies of scale and the division of labor.
Hierarchy works.
a0d834 (1) No.902055
The communist truly is the lowest form of life on this earth.
b07a7f (50) No.902063>>902108
>>902042What exploitation?
You are being paid on HIS will, you should be grateful instead of spiteful, if not for him you would not be paid.
1ff61a (35) No.902067>>902208
>>902027
>pic related>>902039Could say the same for a bunch of AnCaps/Libertarians.
7688f6 (7) No.902068>>902075 >>902156
>>902039>>902039>Fighting in a revolution isn't a job b07a7f (50) No.902075
>>902068>Drug cartels aren't a job. 18cf06 (1) No.902076>>902131 >>902189
03b32b (1) No.902080
>>900343 (OP)Aside from the obvious of the Communist Manifesto, what other books would you recommend that would better high light on the subject?
c94207 (1) No.902090>>902112 >>902228
>Hi. Im a communist.
I hope I'm not the only person who stopped reading there.
b11c9a (2) No.902094
>>900343 (OP)>an idealistic ideology that actually goes against marxism, a materialistic ideology.Cultural marxism is an idealistic application of classical marxism. It doesn't go against.
Both are egalitarian and globalist.
So the expression "cultural" marxism makes some sense. The term cultural globalism could be used too.
1ff61a (35) No.902108>>902135
>>902063Pic related is the ideal.
2bdfae (4) No.902112
>>902090But then I might miss out on the mountain of logical fallacies, both intentional and unintentional, as well as all the other comedy and general entertainment that communists provide when they attempt or pretend to have a real conversation.
08f9a8 (2) No.902118>>903398
>>900343 (OP)If there was a ideology that just told people form communes and make candy and raise kittens to give out to everyone for free, and then people copted that ideology to murder half a billion people over the course of 100 years, I'd still say that it was a failed ideology and wouldn't give it the time of day, no matter how much the "purists" would say how all they wanted was to give out free lollipos and kittens.
because champions of that ideology MURDERED HALF A BILLION PEOPLE.
communism is garbage.
proponents of communism are either idiots or tyrants.
I don't care which you are.
b07a7f (50) No.902124
>>902027What non sense are you on about?
My uncle came to this country with nothing, he has a penthouse next to a golf club.
How the hell do you think rich people became rich in the first place?
poor people can become a billionaire.
1138c8 (9) No.902129>>902141 >>902152 >>902284
>>902042Exploitation is inevitable, since economies of scale mean that production at the lowest average long run cost becomes too large to have a democratic pow wow about everything, division of labor means that workers must be alienated from the whole of what they are creating, and profit from the worker's surplus labor is necessary because firms that use profits to fund further capital acquisition can grow their business and out compete any socialist co-ops.
Libertarians are dumb, yes, but they are dumb because they don't really they support exploitation, and they try to deny it.
Socialists are guilty of the worst charge of proposing a system that cannot do what they want it to do, and still work, which is why everything they try eventually collapses back into capitalism after enough purges have taken place.
A better world isn't possible. Deal with it.
b07a7f (50) No.902135>>902221 >>902365
>>902108No one is against people forming companies, go ahead.
1138c8 (9) No.902141
>>902129
>Libertarians are dumb, yes, but they are dumb because they don't really they support exploitation, and they try to deny it.I mean:
because they don't realize they support exploitation
b07a7f (50) No.902152>>902209 >>902248 >>902365
>>902129What non sense are you spewing?
There is no such thing as classes, a "worker" is the same as a rich person.
4fb464 (18) No.902156>>902177
b07a7f (50) No.902162
How the fuck are people being hired and being paid exploitation?
Are unemployed people less "exploited" than employed laborers?
9043ee (6) No.902170
7688f6 (7) No.902177>>902190 >>902252
>>902156>>902156So being a soldier isn't a job either then right?
b07a7f (50) No.902180
I wonder how many unemployed people would looooove to be "exploited" by being paid with medical care, dental care, union etc…
cf6f4b (2) No.902185
One thing that troubles me most about gommies is that they assume most people would put their communities interests before the ones of their own kin, assuming these individuals come from united families. It's like they don't have a strong grasp of human behavior from a darwinist perspective (lol).
They don't understand why some people would become complacent and lazy while in reality, this only contributes to further the decay of society.
Tell me, gommies, why should I work at all if my lazy neighbor who doesn't do shit gets paid just as much as me?
1ff61a (35) No.902189
>>902076Don't make me pull out my collection of libertarian fedoras.
b07a7f (50) No.902190
>>902177How was he working for the economy by fighting a revolution?
ae18b8 (3) No.902197
Something communists hate to see is that 90% of the wealth in the US is generated by people starting their own businesses…
Seriously, there is no other place on earth like the US. My mother grew up in poverty and now makes 250k a year because she worked hard and stuck with her job. Communists are whiny kids who don't want to put in any hard work because they've had an upscale life where they haven't had to lift a finger, or they are just too stupid to understand basic economics.
4fb464 (18) No.902208>>902238
>>902067Ancaps and libertardians do not position themselves as representatives of workers. They are dumb, almost as dumb as communists, but I would bet that they have worked a hell of a lot more per capita than communists have.
9043ee (6) No.902209
>>902152>There is no such thing as classes, a "worker" is the same as a rich person.Are you trolling? Or are you really this fucking dense?
Every time /commiehugboxpol/ comes here I get confused
1ff61a (35) No.902221>>902231 >>902260
2bdfae (4) No.902228>>902250
>>902090Don't worry, plenty of useful idiots in America are working to change that. Funny thing is most commieshits don't realize that they're just pawns for the least "equality"-minded people they could ever imagine.
b07a7f (50) No.902231>>902277
>>902221violent workers bombed and were hanged?
1ff61a (35) No.902238>>902324 >>902332
>>902208Kind of doubt it.
1ff61a (35) No.902248>>902259
>>902152Can you please clarify?
b07a7f (50) No.902250
>>902228Communism is the easiest road for a fascist to become supreme ruler.
4fb464 (18) No.902252
>>902177Soldiering is a job, but soldiers aren't "workers" in the communist sense. And neither are revolutionaries.
b07a7f (50) No.902259>>902331
>>902248A worker can save money and purchase his own capital and then hire workers, that is capitalism.
9043ee (6) No.902260>>902303 >>902331
>>902221> 1800s> grasping at straws this hardOkay fuckwit. Ignore the millions and millions of success stories of people coming to this country who didn't even have a pot to piss in; who worked hard, became entrepreneurs and made something of themselves. Let's talk about a 19th century Chicago riot instead.
Let me guess…. you'll bring up the mining strikes next… while completely ignoring the negative impacts that powerful mafia-like unions had on the work force as a whole.
ccdcd8 (1) No.902262
>>900343 (OP)the no true scotsman was already brought up so I only have one question for you. why is it okay to use no true scotsman on communism while natsoc as an ideology is always called literally hitler? seems like cognitive dissonance to me.
b07a7f (50) No.902267>>902331
What did you think the capital owners did before they had capital? they fucking worked, the hardest every day no breaks.
1ff61a (35) No.902277
>>902231The judge pretty much threw the seven "anarchists" under the bus, just because he could, regardless of evidence.
8c35a8 (6) No.902284>>902306 >>902311 >>902374
Why can't more of you be like
>>902129? He's the only poster in this thread who's made rational arguments against the OP instead of tired, easily debunked garbage.
What we have here, I think, is a failure to communicate. /pol/ tends to make arguments based on how the world is, while /leftypol/ makes arguments based on what the world should be. Both sides have valid points, but this fact is lost beneath waves of shitposting.
I'm leftist, but I'm not a communist. I'm a technocrat because I understand that the economic factors outlined in
>>902129 provide a strong material incentive for things to stay the way they are. Anyone versed in historical materialism will be able to understand this. AI is the only possible way to sidestep these problems, and it still carries great risk.
2bdfae (4) No.902302>>902305
Don't worry, plenty of useful idiots in America are working to change that. Funny thing is most commieshits don't realize that they're just pawns for the least "equality"-minded people they could ever imagine.
1ff61a (35) No.902303>>902328
>>902260
>millions and millions of success stories of people coming to this country Lel, only a small amount of people ever made it out of the working class.
b07a7f (50) No.902306>>902378
>>902284Haha, the solution to your ideology is slavery, who would of guessed.
b07a7f (50) No.902311>>902378
>>902284Is there any ideology that wouldn't be successful with slavery?
4fb464 (18) No.902324>>902341
>>902238Most libertarians are middle class workers. Most communists are students or professors (i.e. nonworking parasites).
70834a (1) No.902325
People seem to be more focused on improving the current systems instead of creating better ones.
b07a7f (50) No.902328
>>902303There is no such thing as class you fucking retard.
1ff61a (35) No.902331>>902352
>>902267The capital owners largely inherited it.
>>902260as for the mafia-like unions, guess who they act like?
>>902259You can never earn enough to get yourself out of wage labour, because the same people who employ you, house you and sell you garbage food.
9c7f1a (7) No.902332>>902341
>>902238
>that pic>handing power over to the corporationsYou will never convince anybody to abandon An-Cap if you don't even know what it is before you start talking.
1ff61a (35) No.902341>>902354 >>902399 >>902534
>>902324define "middle-class worker".
>>902332An-Cap is feudalism by fedoras.
b07a7f (50) No.902352>>902380
>>902331What nonsense are you spewing, in order to succeed sacrifices must be mad, you can't hope to progress with spending every single dime you make.
9c7f1a (7) No.902354>>902380
>>902341Name on An-Cap work that you have read.
ebce31 (1) No.902358
What is social marxist? Really
1138c8 (9) No.902365>>902433
>>902135These will fail though, or at least be outcompeted. They can never form the majority of the economy, without the state changing property laws to accommodate only that structure.
Economies of scale smash democracy by making efficient businesses for primary and secondary production into very large centralized factory complexes that require centralized management and a hierarchy to communicate. This means there must be bosses.
Workers must produce something that can be sold for more than they cost to hire. An efficient business must reinvest some of this profit into capital in order to expand. Profit is better than breaking even as full socialist co-ops require.
Workers also earn less than bosses because workers come and go and the shareholders want to attract good managers and CEOs, who being scarcer than workers can bargain for a higher price. Lowly workers always cost less because they have less bargaining power, because there are less of them. A business that tried to pay its workers the same as its managers would have labor shortages.
So, you see workers can't just start their own businesses to achieve socialism. Maybe they can get an egalitarian coffee shop going, or something in the tertiary sector, but you are never going to outcompete big corporations and bring a fair form of economy that way, because the more socialist a business is, the higher its cost to revenue ratio is going to be relative to other factors.
Therefore we can come to the conclusion that revolution is the only way for socialism to "happen"Even here however, socialism can only shift things from the capitalist boss to the state as boss, so it never actually achieves ownership of your own labor. The state simply takes the surplus labor and turns it into profit, becoming the capitalist. Of course, the state suffers from diseconomies of scale, so things tend to collapse back into the economy of scale zone of big but separate business as we see in capitalism, and so all the commie countries of the 20th Century melt away into capitalist enterprising nations, or basket cases floundering to copy Western capitalism.
Socialism gets BTFO by reality, so no, the workers can't just do socialism voluntary, because it's inefficient, and even if they do it violently, it gets rekt by the passage of time as the system collapses.
Socialism is the very definition of failure. Exploitation and hierarchy rings eternal. They should all relax and become Social Democrats. We can lather enough social programs on capitalism and have it keep ticking that the workers aren't going to care about representation or having their surplus labor taken.
>>902152Workers can only sell their labor. Business owners can employ that labor to make money.
There's a HUGE difference. One can become the other, but logically the system requires the vast majority of people to be workers for it to work.
And I say this as a capitalist supporter. One of my biggest annoyances is people trying to spin the system as fair or trying to deny classes.
That isn't what it's about. Capitalism is good because it works. That it results in people living near to the margins without state support shouldn't be denied. Trying to play the game of fairness is irrelevant if socialism can't work how socialists say it can.
Capitalism isn't fair, and there are good reasons for that. Don't deny it isn't fair. Don't deny it doesn't largely involve class structures.
0676cd (1) No.902370>>902473
>>900343 (OP)It isn't that cultural marxism is a communist conspiracy, it's that it's dumbass crap from dumbass "communists" a long time ago that wont die.
4fb464 (18) No.902374
>>902284/leftypol/ does not have valid points because their points are tied to their ideological structure and not to be taken in solitary.
8c35a8 (6) No.902378
>>902306>>902311What part of that is slavery, exactly?
Also, all you fucking idiots who say there's no such thing as class need to stop posting and rethink your lives. The smarter right-wingers admit that class exists, but they either don't see it as a problem or don't see any way around it.
1ff61a (35) No.902380>>902397
>>902352It's like you don't understand you're paid just enough to keep you coming back but not enough to save or "invest".
>>902354I don't debate with children in fedoras.
eb7bca (3) No.902391
>>902131Moldbug is a super alpha who has muscle cum twinks follow him around 24/7 listening to him spout philosophy of absolute right wing domination of liberal boypussy.
9c7f1a (7) No.902397>>902415
>>902380So none, then?
I sure called it.
06eccc (3) No.902399
>>902341Libertarian here, I make precision optical flats for a living.
d8076a (1) No.902408>>902487 >>903398
>>900343 (OP)>Cultural marxism is not supported by communists The foundations of it are laid out in ==THE FIRST TWO FUCKING CHAPTERS OF THE COMMUNIST MANIFESTO.== More proof that self proclaimed communists don't even know shit about the philosophy they expound.
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch02.htm>Abolition [Aufhebung] of the family! Even the most radical flare up at this infamous proposal of the Communists.
>On what foundation is the present family, the bourgeois family, based? On capital, on private gain. In its completely developed form, this family exists only among the bourgeoisie. But this state of things finds its complement in the practical absence of the family among the proletarians, and in public prostitution.
>The bourgeois family will vanish as a matter of course when its complement vanishes, and both will vanish with the vanishing of capital.
>Do you charge us with wanting to stop the exploitation of children by their parents? To this crime we plead guilty.
>But, you say, we destroy the most hallowed of relations, when we replace home education by social.Oh look, Marx actually thinks the family is such an evil capitalist institution intent on destroying the masses!
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch02.htm>The bourgeois sees his wife a mere instrument of production. He hears that the instruments of production are to be exploited in common, and, naturally, can come to.Oh look, the foundations of feminism! MUH WOMYN ARE SO EXPLOITED!
>Bourgeois marriage is, in reality, a system of wives in common and thus, at the most, what the Communists might possibly be reproached with is that they desire to introduce, in substitution for a hypocritically concealed, an openly legalised community of women. For the rest, it is self-evident that the abolition of the present system of production must bring with it the abolition of the community of women springing from that system, i.e., of prostitution both public and private.DOWN WIT TEH PATRIARCHY! I AM STRONK INDEPENDT WOMYN WHO NEED NO MEN!
>The supremacy of the proletariat will cause them to vanish still faster. United action, of the leading civilised countries at least, is one of the first conditions for the emancipation of the proletariat.Remember kiddies, it's evil if you are proud of your heritage. Anything short than that is racist and ethnocentric!
>The charges against Communism made from a religious, a philosophical and, generally, from an ideological standpoint, are not deserving of serious examination.If you're not with me, you are against me! Off with your heads! How dare you examine my teachings!
http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch02.htm>“There are, besides, eternal truths, such as Freedom, Justice, etc., that are common to all states of society. But Communism abolishes eternal truths,Oh look guys, the birth of subjectivism!
>The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degree, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralise all instruments of production in the hands of the State, i.e., of the proletariat organised as the ruling class; and to increase the total productive forces as rapidly as possible.MUH PROLETARIAT SUPERSTATE WILL LEAD US TO PARADISE!
>But with the development of industry, the proletariat not only increases in number; it becomes concentrated in greater masses, its strength grows, and it feels that strength more. The various interests and conditions of life within the ranks of the proletariat are more and more equalised, in proportion as machinery obliterates all distinctions of labour, and nearly everywhere reduces wages to the same low level. The growing competition among the bourgeois, and the resulting commercial crises, make the wages of the workers ever more fluctuating. Remember! Capitalism has allowed human society to grow and prosper, but somehow the same capitalism is the cause for all suffering and death!
>No sooner is the exploitation of the labourer by the manufacturer, so far, at an end, that he receives his wages in cash, than he is set upon by the other portions of the bourgeoisie, the landlord, the shopkeeper, the pawnbroker, etc.Oh God-forbid! A worker getting paid in cash? A functioning economy where people buy and sell and meet their obligations? EXPLOITATION!
>Our bourgeois, not content with having wives and daughters of their proletarians at their disposal, not to speak of common prostitutes, take the greatest pleasure in seducing each other’s wives.Remember kids, being middle class somehow makes you prone to adultery and polygamy. Don't be rich!! Rich people are evil!
7c5437 (1) No.902422>>902481 >>914288 >>914835
>>900343 (OP)>>900396>>900597>>900609>>>/leftypol/You have your containment board, fuck off.
b07a7f (50) No.902433>>902516 >>905685
>>902365There aren't any classes, a worker is the same as the company owner, all need to work to get money to get more money.
b07a7f (50) No.902455
Someone that is able bodied and that doesn't have their own business, is purely on them not able to take risks/sacrifice their comfy flat screens, sneakers, iphone5xxx, ps5631xx etc..
c91a48 (2) No.902459>>902497
>>900343 (OP)Every single communist, socialist, trotskyite, etc party in the United States is pro-Cultural Marxism/SJWism.
Explain this if apparantly you as a whole "don't support" it.
004d04 (2) No.902466>>902472 >>902480
>>900504Don't get me wrong, I think communism is a bad path. And I agree most groups are hand-in-hand with degeneracy since both communism and degeneracy are inherently leftist.
But as far as real-world application, Russia seems to be pretty redpilled on gays/transgenders, feminists, and race.
b07a7f (50) No.902472
>>902466Russia isn't communist, they were just fascists with something to unite them.
4fb464 (18) No.902473>>902798
>>902370It is a communist conspiracy, actually. It is an agitation tactic. It is just the updated form of handing out fliers and shouting the soapbox. It's goal is to create the conditions necessary for communist revolution, which it posits can only be accomplished by deconstructing the capitalist values, cultural norms, traditions, etc. It is a reaction to what they saw as the proletariat taking on bourgeois values as capitalism diverged from the prophecies of Marx, so their solution is to destroy all values that they see tying people to capitalism. As I said before, it is the updated version of communism, patched because the progression wasn't taking place as Marx predicted. The desired end is still the same, but the tactics are updated. Orthodox commies are just too dumb to see that times have changed and they cling to 19th century writings, ironically becoming the reactionaries they claim to fight.
c2871d (3) No.902474
"Thus we find every tyrant backed by a Jew, as is every pope by a Jesuit. In truth, the cravings of oppressors would be hopeless, and the practicability of war out of the question, if there were not an army of Jesuits to smother thought and a handful of Jews to ransack pockets.
…the real work is done by the Jews, and can only be done by them, as they monopolize the machinery of the loan-mongering mysteries by concentrating their energies upon the barter trade in securities… Here and there and everywhere that a little capital courts investment, there is ever one of these little Jews ready to make a little suggestion or place a little bit of a loan. The smartest highwayman in the Abruzzi is not better posted up about the locale of the hard cash in a traveler's valise or pocket than those Jews about any loose capital in the hands of a trader… The language spoken smells strongly of Babel, and the perfume which otherwise pervades the place is by no means of a choice kind.
Thus do these loans, which are a curse to the people, a ruin to the holders, and a danger to the governments, become a blessing to the houses of the children of Judah. This Jew organization of loan-mongers is as dangerous to the people as the aristocratic organization of landowners… The fortunes amassed by these loan-mongers are immense, but the wrongs and sufferings thus entailed on the people and the encouragement thus afforded to their oppressors still remain to be told.
The fact that 1855 years ago Christ drove the Jewish moneychangers out of the temple, and that the moneychangers of our age enlisted on the side of tyranny happen again chiefly to be Jews, is perhaps no more than a historical coincidence. The loan-mongering Jews of Europe do only on a larger and more obnoxious scale what many others do on one smaller and less significant. But it is only because the Jews are so strong that it is timely and expedient to expose and stigmatize their organization."
- Karl Marx, "The Russian Loan", New York Daily Tribune, 4 January 1856
"…the Jewish Nigger, Lassalle… it is now completely clear to me that he, as is proved by his cranial formation and his hair, descends from the Negroes from Egypt, assuming that his mother or grandmother had not interbred with a nigger. Now this union of Judaism and Germanism with a basic Negro substance must produce a peculiar product. The obtrusiveness of the fellow is also nigger-like."
- Karl Marx to Friedrich Engels (Letter, July 1862), in reference to his socialist political competitor, Ferdinand Lassalle.
eb7bca (3) No.902480
>>902466This has more to do with the US using them as a geopolitical wedge to divide and conquer Russia and country's in Russian influence.
I'm not saying Putin doesn't completely believe the whole Orthodox line, just that he recognizes them as tools of US influence.
1ff61a (35) No.902481>>902512
>>902422What do you think /pol/ is? Besides, I'll post here all I want and faggots like you can't do a damn thing about it.
>>902428 b11c9a (2) No.902487>>902507
>>902408This
>self proclaimed communists don't even know shit about the philosophy they expound./thread
/leftypol
1ff61a (35) No.902497>>902508 >>902523
>>902459
>Every single communist, socialist, trotskyite, etc party in the United States is pro-Cultural Marxism/SJWism.How do you quantify something like that?
1ff61a (35) No.902507
>>902487This coming from the guy who thought trees contributed to pollution.
b07a7f (50) No.902508>>902537 >>902540 >>902564
>>902497You must be one of the Islam is religion of peace people, sorry but if a large amount of your people do something, that becomes inherent with the thing they are championing.
c91a48 (2) No.902523
>>902497I was a communist for years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Communist_parties_in_the_United_StatesHere you go, name one you think isn't SJW tier and I'll disprove it.
b07a7f (50) No.902524>>902799
>>902516what does the company owner want? to get more money in order to make more money
what does the "worker" want, to get more money in order to start his own business and thus make more money.
4fb464 (18) No.902534
>>902341
>define "middle-class worker"Classic communist autism on display now.
8c35a8 (6) No.902537>>902776
>>902508>large amount of your peopleThese aren't our people. They're infiltrators that the corporate-controlled media gives overwhelming amounts of coverage in order to paint leftist movements in a negative light. I thought /pol/ was better at recognizing shills than this.
1ff61a (35) No.902540>>902545 >>902559
>>902508So I guess the Catholic Church are even bigger SJW's than we are, by your logic.
b07a7f (50) No.902545
>>902540depends on your context.
f6e820 (1) No.902552
>I personally am a Libertarian socialist
10/10
b07a7f (50) No.902559
>>902540I fully accept that in the past Christianity was about preserving European civilization, by killing invaders by uniting under one banner.
1ff61a (35) No.902564
>>902508>>902508So I guess the Catholic Church are even bigger SJW's than we are, by your logic.
c2871d (3) No.902571>>902584 >>902615
"The blacks, those magnificent examples of the African race who have maintained their racial purity thanks to their lack of an affinity with bathing, have seen their territory invaded by a new kind of slave: the Portuguese."
"The black is indolent and a dreamer; spending his meager wage on frivolity or drink; the European has a tradition of work and saving, which has pursued him as far as this corner of America and drives him to advance himself, even independently of his own individual aspirations."
b07a7f (50) No.902584>>902899
>>902571The black dreams of ravaging looting, raping and destroying.
c77eac (1) No.902591
>>900791>Holy shit you have no idea what you are talking about.But he does. Communism is money-less while socialism is the transitional stage with some private property.
1ff61a (35) No.902597>>902614 >>902619
>>902512Dude, the biggest spergs I've ever met were libertarians/Randroids/AnCaps.
9c7f1a (7) No.902614
>>902597I've met a few of them, too. They were all IT guys.
All the commies I've ever met were basically the same sans the job.
1ff61a (35) No.902615
>>902571You left off were Che recanted his racist views.
b07a7f (50) No.902619>>902640
>>902597Average libertarian is more informed and smarter than your average of any other party.
2bdfae (4) No.902622>>902650
>>902305Do you think I'm to the right of you and need to be brought to the center? The neocon movement was started by trotskyites and funded by banksters.
1ff61a (35) No.902640>>902649
>>902619You probably believe in Young Earth Creationism too.
b07a7f (50) No.902649
>>902640And I bet you believe in the Easter bunny?
1ff61a (35) No.902650
>>902622Where did I say I was a fan of NeoCons?
f99f7e (1) No.902699
>>901575Severely underrated post. Of course the commie has no response, and neither do the libertarians.
c2871d (3) No.902706
"I'm sick of fucking niggers invading our socialist motherland, spreading disease and raping our white cuban women. Of course Fidel will never directly address the issue because he is a kike puppet and traitor to the revolution. Also even though they reject revisionism, chinks really annoy me with their ching-chong ding-down language. Pakis and dotheads smell like curry, it makes me fucking puke. I just wish I could wipe all this subhuman filth away."
- actual quote from Che 'Pulling the trigger on every nigger' Guevara
eb8717 (1) No.902713>>902752
>most anons here are bashing communism based on how many people were killed in communist countries.
You are better than this, /pol/.
39787f (2) No.902726>>902746 >>902798
Former Communist here and I suppose I'll explain.
While both have similiar goals (social change) cultural "Marxism" and Marxism have different end products.
Marxism believes that if you change the economic base then you will change the culture as it's primary focus is the means of production.
Culture changes depend on whether you are in a socialist, capitalist, feudal, or communist system.
cultural "marxists" have replaced class struggle with a cultural one. They'd be perfectly happy to be ruled by a capitalist as long as it was a gay, retarded, black, trans-woman.
Marxism doesn't give two shits about any of those groups, unless it happens to involve class meanwhile that's all that SJW's ever focus on and they ignore class.
b07a7f (50) No.902746
>>902726Tell me what is class.
cf6f4b (2) No.902752
>>902713Wasn't Trotsky the guy who denied the value of human lives?
37fad2 (6) No.902776>>902853
>>902537>These aren't our people. They're infiltrators that the corporate-controlled media gives overwhelming amounts of coverage in order to paint leftist movements in a negative light.So not only are you a Communist who doesn't understand Communism, you're a tin-foil hat wearing retard.
You're obviously of the Western variety of Leftist Liberal-The Progressive.
4fb464 (18) No.902798>>902861
>>902726You are wrong. Read my comment here:
>>902473Their end goal is communism. The trannies, feminism, homos, etc. are all just a tactic, not the end in itself.
27b485 (3) No.902799>>902822 >>902827 >>902843 >>902850 >>902862 >>903414 >>905799
>>902524It doesn't matter what they want. What do they actually get?
One of those people earns way more than the other and has a greater capacity to increase how much he earns.
Capitalism relies on the majority earning low wages to begin with.
Imagine if everyone owned a factory. The system couldn't work because no body would be able to employ anybody to work at their factory (unless we decided on some weird rotation system).
The system is the way it is for a reason, and there are winners and losers as in all things.
If you want to support capitalism, you should actually understand it for what it is. Reality simply doesn't allow for everyone to get rich. The vast majority will always be plebs, and it's not even about hard work, but about the fact that there are only so many people at one time who can even be business owners or wealthy and have the system still run.
The managers of business will always have more money, and the majority of people who work all their lives will never have that much, because they are beaten to the punch by the lucky few. There's only so much money in the system to be had.
e46699 (2) No.902817>>902957
tip: if you want to regulate through the state and distort signals under free market, you're distorting capitalism, or subverting its working.
feminists are against capitalism because they don't believe in a peaceful long-term solution to "inequality" evened out by market demands, but instead want active measures by the government which then will distort capitalism.
b07a7f (50) No.902822
>>902799if there were a lot of factories owned by people then factory owners would work in factories because it would be more valuable but that's moot because there will always be new comers, because you know birth and immigration.
b07a7f (50) No.902827>>902845
>>902799There are no winners and losers.
08b24f (4) No.902835>>902877
>>902387In the part at the bottom about Race, is he trying to say that people dislike blacks because they have been divided? I'm pretty sure people dislike blacks because they act like niggers.
b07a7f (50) No.902843>>903056
>>902799If everyone owned factories, then factory owners would be working in factories.
e46699 (2) No.902850>>903056
>>902799
>Imagine if everyone owned a factory. The system couldn't work because no body would be able to employ anybody to work at their factory (unless we decided on some weird rotation system).we already decided one: it's called free market competition
b07a7f (50) No.902851
>>902845You know what I meant, everyone can be a winner.
8c35a8 (6) No.902853>>902886 >>902934
>>902776>calling someone a tin-foil hat wearing retard>on /pol/, home of every conspiracy theory imaginableReally, faggot?
39787f (2) No.902861
>>902798That's….
Actually a really interesting theory, I'll have to think on that more, thanks anon.
08b24f (4) No.902862>>902904 >>903056
>>902799You say that a "lucky" few beat the others to the punch. That's not how it works.
The "smart" few beat the others to the punch who were either too dumb, lazy, clever, or motivated to create a factory.
That's some special snowflake nonsense to say that luck is the main factor. People don't become successful through luck, they become successful through good ideas. Ford didn't get "lucky" by creating the Model T. He was a brilliant man who saw a need and saw how to fulfill that need, then executed it.
37fad2 (6) No.902877>>902931
>>902835He means that they use Race to divide people.
The very part of people acting like niggers is dividing them from the rest of the population in many ways.
When you exploit these differences using racism, multiculturalism, etc, you bring out the extremes between each race, culture, etc.
It has more to do with bringing about uprising and cultural divisions on race and such so as to cause destabilization.
9043ee (6) No.902886>>902933
>>902853> home of every conspiracy theoryI suppose you think "muh joos" is a /pol/-only creation as well, eh? Only right wingers and hateful fascists buy into it, right?
9ff362 (1) No.902899
>>902584"Dreamer" in spanish (soñador) in this case is interpreted as "one who sleeps too much/wastes time doing nothing".
08b24f (4) No.902904
>>902862I should have said "or not clever or motivated enough" my bad.
08b24f (4) No.902931
>>902877Ah okay. I thought he was trying to say that we are all equal and they force blacks to act like niggers to divide us. Thanks for the clarification.
8c35a8 (6) No.902933
>>902886Why would I think /pol/ invented anti-Semitism? Only an idiot would think that.
Regardless, shills exist on both the right and the left. That even a single /pol/ack doesn't acknowledge this after being shilled so hard for so long is beyond the pale.
37fad2 (6) No.902934>>903131
>>902853Yes. Really.
/pol/ is tame as watching people fully clothed and considering showing some skin to be pornographic.
I've heard of loads of conspiracy theories and talked with the people who believe them.
I've been around the block a few times on /x/, but yes, that's very conspiracy theorist of that poster to try and call someone who is merely another part of their movement as a shill.
You see, you do this to detract from your views and the end goals of the movement (knowingly or not) while portraying the people you think are the enemy (corporations, capitalists, etc) as responsible for the thing at hand.
It happens all the damn time-and people buy into it because they know no better and have not been taught how to reason these things out with logic.
It's taken me a long time to understand these thought processes on my own, but being around the conspiracy theory community has helped me to understand the differences between a true conspiracy theory and one that is merely a perpetuation of one's world view.
004d04 (2) No.902957
>>902817Reposting what I posted in another thread:
after the series of bailouts, propping up enormous dying companies, people are going to point to those companies and say, "look capitalism fails us yet again!" without even giving a second thought to the fact that capitalism was poisoned with government bailouts. If the companies had been allowed to fall, it would have made room for companies to take their place; but the government deemed the corporations "too big to fail" and inflated them. Corporations aren't to blame for oligarchy; corporations fail naturally no matter HOW big they get, if capitalism weren't disrupted by the government then we'd see new corporations rising all the time; but with the government deciding, "these are the corporations that must stay on top," we're left with an oligarchy wrought by socialist policies and using capitalism as a scapegoat.
27b485 (3) No.903056
>>902843>If everyone owned factories, then factory owners would be working in factories.This is kind of absurd. If everyone owned a factory, they'd need to hire managers and workers who also owned their own factories.
This would very quickly cause most factories to have massive labor shortages, resulting in their factories failing to pay for themselves.
We'd collapse back into the normal mode of few people owning large scale means of production.
>>902850That's not what I meant. I meant that we'd need some sort of system to decide who was going to work in whose factory at what time, and who was going to give up management etc.
The free market doesn't have to deal with this, because my entire point is that this is NOT what happens in capitalism.
You never end up with a situation where everyone's a factory owner, because that can't actually happen. There aren't enough financial resources, and it would cause labor shortages that would crash the economy. The free market would cause some firms to fail before we reached that level of saturation.
>>902862Very few businessmen are Henry Ford. Very few people have high IQs.
Most people are clustered together on a normal distribution, with very few blithering retards, and very few geniuses as a percentage of the population.
Most business owners are just filling a niche. As things turn over and businesses rise and fall at any one time, most people will still be workers, and there's only so much money in the system to allow them to be anything else.
Most people are clustered in a similar range in IQ (as it's a normal distribution), yet only a few will end up making significant money or owning big business because it's functionally inefficient for everyone to own businesses, or everyone to be wealthy.
If everyone had exactly the same IQ and skills, there would still be a lower class majority and a higher class minority, just through tiny advantages accruing into big ones. Money buys money.
Conversely, if you just gave everyone a million dollars, the economy would hyperinflate and crash.
Capitalism works because there are rich and poor, and socialism just plain doesn't work.
894be6 (1) No.903063>>903198
Cultural Marxism refers to the purposeful stratification of the non-white, non-male members of society into a large homogenous proletariat, and using them to attack white men who fill the role of the bourgeois.
That's what we mean by cultural Marxism. That is readily found in western culture - especially anglophone culture. We are not saying that Marx intended to create this situation, we are saying that people are applying Marxist class theory to the culture.
Hence cultural Marxism. That's what it means.
We can create a society where Economic Marxist precepts are widely accepted and simultaneously not have Cultural Marxism.
We can create a society where Economic Marxist precepts are not widely accepted and simultaneously have Cultural Marxism.
That doesn't make the phenomena observed a non-Marxist phenomena.
8c35a8 (6) No.903131
>>902934Who has both the means and the motive to do what I described (which has been extensively documented in other cases by /pol/ itself) other than corporate shills?
Calling me a conspiracy theorist for saying something which other than being leftist is
exactly the same fucking shit /pol/ says is unbelievably disingenuous.
27b485 (3) No.903198>>903337 >>903848
>>903063The thing about Marxism is that it's primarily a theory of reality and history, before it's an ideological plan for society.
Weird as it sounds, you could be a Marxist Capitalist, recognizing dialectical materialism, and fighting to never let the "internal contradictions" of capitalism resolve into socialist revolution. Another form of Marxist Capitalism is quite the reverse; Marxist accelerationism attempts to
extend capitalist exploitation until it breaks, which means you can support anarcho-capitalist policies from a communist position.
You can slap Marxist theory onto almost anything. Arguably Fascism is Marxist Nationalism when it evokes the concept of "bourgeois nations" and "proletarian nations", and is Marxist Capitalist when it utilizes the idea of "class collaboration" specifically to address tension within capitalism that leads to socialism.
Marxist remains naturally a short hand for Marxist
communism, because Marx himself created his theory of history and then said "oh and we should be on the workers side", and the vast majority of Marxists follow on from Marx (though the contrary bastard somewhat disowned them with his "If I know one thing, it's that I am not a Marxist" line).
4fb464 (18) No.903337
>>903198Yes, people must understand that Marxism can be understood as several things. There is Marxism as descriptive(economic works this way, history works this way, etc.), there is Marxism as prescriptive (communist manifesto, how to bring about communism, etc.), there is Marxism as methodology (applying Marxist methods of analysis to other things), and you could probably think of a few more categories for it.
08f9a8 (2) No.903398
4fb464 (18) No.903414>>903438 >>903468
>>902799Most capitalists accept that some will always be (relatively) poor and others (relatively) rich because they see no reason that everyone should have the same of everything. I agree with them on this, but my main gripe with that is that the people with higher priviliges aren't necessarily the most noble or most virtuous, as it should be, but often the greediest or most immoral or most unscrupulous. The inequality is not my problem with it, just the selection method.
3d12f3 (1) No.903430
cultural marxism, like marxism is a revolutionary warfare tactic. Marxism being an economic one and cultural marxism being a psychological one. Both seek to undermine and destroy western institutions and traditions to build a new world and a new man, who is an obedient slave, a battery for the marxist-socialist international puppet masters.
b07a7f (50) No.903438
>>903414What the fuck are you talking about?
"poor" and "rich" are not facts, and are non sense.
d11e26 (1) No.903468
bcef00 (2) No.903572
>>900343 (OP)You are somewhat correct in that 'cultural marxism' is not actually a real branch of marxist.
It is interesting that 'cultural marxism' is actually the bastard offspring of two different schisms within their own movements. It is the bastard byproduct of Trotskytism and neo-Marxists in the political sphere (who rebelled against marxist orthodoxy), and neo-Freudians, who rebelled against Freud.
When we talk about Cultural Marxism, we're talking about this tradition of thought.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_SchoolAnd don't blame us for calling it 'cultural marxism', the founders of the ideology explicitly stated that they were neo-marxists.
64ca08 (1) No.903728>>903863 >>904106
>>900405There are better things to do in life than work. Is your life so empty, that you need to fill it with work?. Or, more likely, you just want to have slaves. Little sadist, that like people miserable.
bcef00 (2) No.903848
>>903198Your view of fascism as Marxist Nationalism actually contains some truth to it, even if it is a gross oversimplication.
Fascists ultimately reject the purely materialistic view of man, although in a strange Nietzschian sort of way. They ultimately recognize the purely materialist view, but view cultural systems as a mechanism to transcend pure materialism and become something greater.
However, I'll leave it at that and go on to how what you said contains some truth, and why the history of Marxism and Nationalism is so strange.
Once upon a time while Marx was working on developing dialetical materialism and the marxist view of history, he met a friend. His friend became a major supporter of his, and was so influential that this friend was the one who recruited Engels to the cause.
However, once as time progressed this friend began to drift away from Marx's interpretation.
He agreed with the dialectical view of history, but eventually came to disagree that class struggle was the primary driver of history. This gentleman argued that class struggle was a secondary driver, and that the true driver was struggle between cultures and national identities.
Therefore, the class struggle must be resolved so that the real business of history, national and racial struggle, can resume. While this gentleman supported workers movements, he was primarily focused on workers movements with a nationalistic slant.
Now anyone who knows about fascism and NatSoc theory will feel this is all pretty familiar ground.
The man's name was Moses Hess.
> mfw MOSES HessAlthough he was unlikely the first person with both a nationalist and socialist leaning, he is the first person that I can identify that merges nationalism and socialism through marxism, and his writing predates the German NatSocs by about 60 years.
>mfw NatSoc is Jewish. 37fad2 (6) No.903863
>>903728>There are better things to do in life than work.Ah, the stoner philosophy.
I see we're moving up in the world, aren't we.
06eccc (3) No.904106
>>903728>work is a bad thingI was a neet for a month in July, even then I worked on my house, on my car, on my body. what else can you fill life with other than work?
adc1b9 (1) No.905685
>>902433Are you legally retarded?
Framing a house and negotiating contracts are two very different skills.
and that's just the small construction business I worked in.
Bad /pol/lack! No happening for you!
9f85a1 (1) No.905799
>>902799
>That's not what I meant. I meant that we'd need some sort of system to decide who was going to work in whose factory at what time, and who was going to give up management etc.>>The free market doesn't have to deal with this, because my entire point is that this is NOT what happens in capitalism. >>You never end up with a situation where everyone's a factory owner, because that can't actually happen. There aren't enough financial resources, and it would cause labor shortages that would crash the economy. The free market would cause some firms to fail before we reached that level of saturation.Tell me. Why can't it happen? You seem to be suffering from wishful thinking. It certainly can happen. As it does. Companies fail all the time, unless they're stopped to do so.
e21857 (1) No.911541
>>900343 (OP)>be happy to answer any questions you have about what communists actually believe in>I personally am a Libertarian socialistHere is a question: how does your brain preform all these mental gymnastics?
515ddc (1) No.911578
>>900343 (OP)>Hi. Im a communist.>I personally am a Libertarian socialist.I see the rationalization hamster in your brain is hard at work.
My brother is an anti-gun commie and I am a gun owning LibSoc, we disagree on everything because they are completely different, don't try and kid yourself idiot.
4b2948 (1) No.911592
>>900669>libertarian socialist>Soviet union and Stalin were actually a lot better than most people think>Stalin actually tried for his whole career to implement democratic reformspls die
d5b16e (1) No.911639
>>901920Ding ding, communists are idealistic idiots who think we'll throw out 100,000 years of basic human nature to shit out rainbows and come together and hug.
efd3ac (1) No.911644
Since this shitposting thread isn't gonna disappear anytime soon and idiots will msot likely bump it. Anyone have the image where videogames as art and common core get linked together?
301504 (1) No.913547
If you're really a communist than you should support whole-heartedly SJW's. They are the useful idiots that will be shot once the communist regime comes to power.
But since you're a communist you're too retarded to understand how communists come to power. Please kill yourself.
1d825d (1) No.913583
>>900343 (OP)>Hi. Im a communist.I suggest reading some economics or gtfo.
2b2f40 (1) No.914288>>914745
>>902422>>>/natsoc/And you have yours, but I'll allow you to stay here.
02cd59 (1) No.914745
>>914288That's not ours.
Fuck off to /leftypol/.
e9e438 (1) No.914835
>>902422No, fuck you Anon.
/LEFTYPOL/ is a hugbox.
Neither /pol/ nor /leftypol/ are containment boards, and all opinions are welcome on /pol/.
In fact, I personally resented the creation of /leftypol/ because it ends up making /pol/ less ideologically diverse.
92b2f8 (1) No.925261>>925378
>>902039
>Marx>never worked a day in his lifeActually, no. He did make an half-assed attempt to work as a train ticket collecter to pay back his massive debt.
If memory serves me right, he couldn't hold the job for more than a year. After that he went on rambling about how employers 'exploit' the proleterian labour because he couldn't admit to himself that the reason he's not a winner is not because the of the bougeoise class, but rather because he was a useless sack of shit, a NEET, as we would know him today.
deecd5 (1) No.925276
This thread has no redeeming qualities.
5f7425 (1) No.925378
>>925261He wasn't just a NEET, he went beyond contributing nothing and contributed awful shit. He was the worst parts of NEET and Tumblrina mixed together.
