to literally all of you complaining that there is a change happening at all:

Intersex covers non-trans instances (and TWYS is bullshit because of that)
Even the terms here are STILL NOT ACCEPTABLE (is it THAT fucking hard to say trans? seriously?)
Yes this DOES need to happen, these terms are slurs used mostly in a negative connotation towards people. No, the word doesn't care if you don't think or feel like you use it as a slur; it IS one. end. of. discussion.

also to anyone defending the Trap tag
fuck you.

Yeah I'm coming off as aggressive here
but y'know what? when you're transgender
and literally no one cares to maybe listen to the group of people these terms will effect the most? that's fucking infuriating.

vaelophis_nyx said:
to literally all of you complaining that there is a change happening at all:

Intersex covers non-trans instances (and TWYS is bullshit because of that)
Even the terms here are STILL NOT ACCEPTABLE (is it THAT fucking hard to say trans? seriously?)
Yes this DOES need to happen, these terms are slurs used mostly in a negative connotation towards people. No, the word doesn't care if you don't think or feel like you use it as a slur; it IS one. end. of. discussion.

also to anyone defending the Trap tag
fuck you.

Yeah I'm coming off as aggressive here
but y'know what? when you're transgender
and literally no one cares to maybe listen to the group of people these terms will effect the most? that's fucking infuriating.

You can get your point across without being hostile. Being hostile will convince no one and will only create more distaste towards your cause.

TheHuskyK9 said:
You can get your point across without being hostile. Being hostile will convince no one and will only create more distaste towards your cause.

do you understand, exactly how long we've been trying to get this point across peacefully
no one
fucking
listens.

vaelophis_nyx said:
do you understand, exactly how long we've been trying to get this point across peacefully
no one
fucking
listens.

Except for the fact that the mod team is not your enemy in this case. They're doing the tag change that trans people have been wanting for a long time.

MissChu said:
Except for the fact that the mod team is not your enemy in this case. They're doing the tag change that trans people have been wanting for a long time.

except they're still ignoring what we're asking for
they're just changing out two slurs for two more slurs

no-one bothered to talk to anyone who this matters to it seems
the mod team has the transparency of a brick wall and is about as reasonable as well.

vaelophis_nyx said:
do you understand, exactly how long we've been trying to get this point across peacefully
no one
fucking
listens.

So insulting them instead is going to produce better results and get them on your side?

TheHuskyK9 said:
So insulting them instead is going to produce better results and get them on your side?

No
no I never actually expected them to be on anyone's side but their own
and everything aside; of course they wont care. they have power and no accountability
the whole admin & mod team does

Yes I'm aware that I'm talking to one right now

Don't preach this as "for trans people!" and then just fucking ignore us as a whole when people tell you all that this is not the right move.

I'm outta here, I don't have the time, patience or energy for you all
I hope the administration team takes a closer look at this decision, and maybe bothers to talk to anyone it will effect.

Did y'all like. Talk to a trans person about the new terms. Because "man with feminine features" is not really all that much better than dickgirl.

Source: I am trans. My friends are trans. We are not happy about this.

And, as a suggestion for better terms? Just use trans and intersex. You're using us as fetish fuel the least you can do is not dig through history to find terms that let you distance yourself from acknowledging our existence.

vaelophis_nyx said:
to literally all of you complaining that there is a change happening at all:

Intersex covers non-trans instances (and TWYS is bullshit because of that)
Even the terms here are STILL NOT ACCEPTABLE (is it THAT fucking hard to say trans? seriously?)
Yes this DOES need to happen, these terms are slurs used mostly in a negative connotation towards people. No, the word doesn't care if you don't think or feel like you use it as a slur; it IS one. end. of. discussion.

also to anyone defending the Trap tag
fuck you.

Yeah I'm coming off as aggressive here
but y'know what? when you're transgender
and literally no one cares to maybe listen to the group of people these terms will effect the most? that's fucking infuriating.

This is not a trans thing. This has never been a trans thing. Most of the characters currently tagged as dickgirl or cuntboy are not trans. "Transmale" and "transfemale" are not visually discernible things, which means we simply can't tag them. Visibly_trans is the only tag we can offer there.

Also, the definition of intersex in medicine has always been for any abnormal expression of genes that caused sexual characteristics to deviate from the regular XX and XY expressions. These biological deviations does not make these people trans.

NotMeNotYou said:
This is not a trans thing. This has never been a trans thing. Most of the characters currently tagged as dickgirl or cuntboy are not trans. "Transmale" and "transfemale" are not visually discernible things, which means we simply can't tag them. Visibly_trans is the only tag we can offer there.

I mean gender isn't a visually discernable thing at all. If you just care about being as accurate as possible why not just completely change the tags so you just tag what genitals you see. "Dick" and "boobs" are visually discernable.

And since I know the response to this will be "the tags are about sex, not gender" 1: dickgirl isn't a sex. If the issue is purely that you want a tag for characters who don't appear to be either binary sex, just use intersex. It's what the word means. and 2: Sex is also not visually discernable! Unless the art includes a zoom in on the character's chromosomes you can't know what their sex at birth was. There is a wide range of ways being intersex can affect your body, and there's trans people who are indistinguishable from cis people.

And if you're not going to take us into consideration when it comes to tags describing our bodies, then just go back to callin us fuckin shemales. At least then we know where we stand. Don't make a news post saying you're making the tags "less vulgar" and then fall back on the same old excuses of "we tag what we see" when people tell you you did a bad job, because then what was the point in the first place. If you only care about people knowing what the tag has in it, dickgirl worked just fine

vaelophis_nyx said:
No
no I never actually expected them to be on anyone's side but their own
and everything aside; of course they wont care. they have power and no accountability
the whole admin & mod team does

Yes I'm aware that I'm talking to one right now

Don't preach this as "for trans people!" and then just fucking ignore us as a whole when people tell you all that this is not the right move.

I'm outta here, I don't have the time, patience or energy for you all
I hope the administration team takes a closer look at this decision, and maybe bothers to talk to anyone it will effect.

When and where did we ever "preach" that this was "for the trans people"? Our goal was to replace the previous tags with less vulgar terminology.

Also, this is what this thread is for; communication and transparency, the things that you accuse us of not having. So when we do give you those things, you leave?

I thought the whole point of this alias was to make it more polite.

as another trans person on this site, this change doesn’t fix anything. the only reason artists (and they are ALL fucking cis) even label their characters “dickgirls” and “cuntboys” is because they are too fucking bigoted and cowardly to call them trans. if they say the excuse that they were “just girls born with a dick”, pls know that that’s also the case for basically all trans women irl. (and vice versa for trans men.) we have the term “assigned gender at birth” for a reason. the label we got as a baby wasn’t our fucking choice. call trans girls trans girls. call trans men trans men. and on that note, call cis girls cis girls and cis men cis men too.

and yes. being intersex doesn’t make u nessaraly trans (which relates back to AGAB. which is why we should get rid of the current intersex parent and relabel h**m as intersex. p fucking easy.

and btw, we do have the right, if not the fucking OBLIGATION, to be pissed about this bigoted waffling on the tag policy. it took u 12 fucking years to get even this far, cuz the money of bigoted chasers in denial ment to much too much for u shitty hateful mods. it’s about time u get with the moral political program for fucking once.

weirdoslam said:
as another trans person on this site, this change doesn’t fix anything. the only reason artists (and they are ALL fucking cis) even label their characters “dickgirls” and “cuntboys” is because they are too fucking bigoted and cowardly to call them trans. if they say the excuse that they were “just girls born with a dick”, pls know that that’s also the case for basically all trans women irl. (and vice versa for trans men.) we have the term “assigned gender at birth” for a reason. the label we got as a baby wasn’t our fucking choice. call trans girls trans girls. call trans men trans men. and on that note, call cis girls cis girls and cis men cis men too.

and yes. being intersex doesn’t make u nessaraly trans (which relates back to AGAB. which is why we should get rid of the current intersex parent and relabel h**m as intersex. p fucking easy.

and btw, we do have the right, if not the fucking OBLIGATION, to be pissed about this bigoted waffling on the tag policy. it took u 12 fucking years to get even this far, cuz the money of bigoted chasers in denial ment to much too much for u shitty hateful mods. it’s about time u get with the moral political program for fucking once.

Money?

weirdoslam said:
h**m

Why'd you censor the word Herm?
Is herm a swear word now?

What's the current 2-post gynomorph character tag being cleaned up into?
Or is it just going to be slapped into the new tag when the alias rolls through?

Untamed said:
Why'd you censor the word Herm?
Is herm a swear word now?

it’s always been one to intersex folks. pls actually talk to them irl about this stuff. jfc y’all rlly pride urselves on being ignorant don’t u

weirdoslam said:
as another trans person on this site, this change doesn’t fix anything. the only reason artists (and they are ALL fucking cis) even label their characters “dickgirls” and “cuntboys” is because they are too fucking bigoted and cowardly to call them trans. if they say the excuse that they were “just girls born with a dick”, pls know that that’s also the case for basically all trans women irl. (and vice versa for trans men.) we have the term “assigned gender at birth” for a reason. the label we got as a baby wasn’t our fucking choice. call trans girls trans girls. call trans men trans men. and on that note, call cis girls cis girls and cis men cis men too.

and yes. being intersex doesn’t make u nessaraly trans (which relates back to AGAB. which is why we should get rid of the current intersex parent and relabel h**m as intersex. p fucking easy.

and btw, we do have the right, if not the fucking OBLIGATION, to be pissed about this bigoted waffling on the tag policy. it took u 12 fucking years to get even this far, cuz the money of bigoted chasers in denial ment to much too much for u shitty hateful mods. it’s about time u get with the moral political program for fucking once.

I didn't realize ever single artist was straight. I guess gay, bi, and trans people don't make art. Also most images of characters feminine nature with penises are drawn in fetish, not to be trans. There are trans characters, I know I even saw an artist whom would tell you what the character is in the description of their posts so you knew what they were.

One thing that's confused me, is seeing people get uppset when their character is.. m/f trans (example) get tagged as female instead trans-female like.. I thought you didn't want to be excluded becoz of the journey, but than you still want to exclude yourselves from everyone.

considering I think the current suggested alias was even suggested by someone on the spectrum in a forum a while back, what do you suggest to as an alternative alias that doesn't declare every female with a penis as trans, because it's really only a small amount that are.

TheHuskyK9 said:
When and where did we ever "preach" that this was "for the trans people"? Our goal was to replace the previous tags with less vulgar terminology.

Also, this is what this thread is for; communication and transparency, the things that you accuse us of not having. So when we do give you those things, you leave?

maybe if u stopped tone-policing members of our oppressed community on them bringing up their genuine problems with this policy, maybe if u actually listened to the ideas she was trying to say, she would be more then willing to listen back to u.

weirdoslam said:
it’s always been one to intersex folks. pls actually talk to them irl about this stuff. jfc y’all rlly pride urselves on being ignorant don’t u

Herm is short for Hermaphrodite, which is a scientific term. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermaphrodite
From that article:

The term derives from the Latin: hermaphroditus, from Ancient Greek: ἑρμαφρόδιτος, romanized: hermaphroditos,[7] which derives from Hermaphroditus (Ἑρμαφρόδιτος), the son of Hermes and Aphrodite in Greek mythology. According to Ovid, he fused with the nymph Salmacis resulting in one individual possessing physical traits of male and female sexes

Stop trying to make everything about you, because it isn't. Cuntboys/dickgirls/herms ARE NOT TRANSGENDER and have been around longer than transgender has been well known to everyone. Stop trying to ruin everyone's fun time.

Versperus said:
I didn't realize ever single artist was straight. I guess gay, bi, and trans people don't make art. Also most images of characters feminine nature with penises are drawn in fetish, not to be trans. There are trans characters, I know I even saw an artist whom would tell you what the character is in the description of their posts so you knew what they were.

One thing that's confused me, is seeing people get uppset when their character is.. m/f trans (example) get tagged as female instead trans-female like.. I thought you didn't want to be excluded becoz of the journey, but than you still want to exclude yourselves from everyone.

considering I think the current suggested alias was even suggested by someone on the spectrum in a forum a while back, what do you suggest to as an alternative alias that doesn't declare every female with a penis as trans, because it's really only a small amount that are.

yes i know trans artists exist. i wasn’t talking about them. they rightfully label their trans characters as trans. because they know trans people are worthy people with worthy existence. not just a ducking fetish. and the fact that u even explictly defended that fetisization says a lot about u. none of it positive

also did u even read my post? we can have trans_female and cis_female both be under a female parent tag. this isn’t hard.

btw u have to be ignorant and delusional to think that a majority of trans people can afford SRS, let alone want to get rid of their dick. like i said, y’all need to actually fucking talk to really existing trans people about this shit, instead of priding urselfs on making these decisions just based on ur own stereotypes. nothing about us fucking without us

Versperus said:
One thing that's confused me, is seeing people get uppset when their character is.. m/f trans (example) get tagged as female instead trans-female like.. I thought you didn't want to be excluded becoz of the journey, but than you still want to exclude yourselves from everyone.

assuming this is a genuine question: The ideal situation would just be two tags. The character would be tagged as female, and trans-female or whatever the tag would be. One does not need to erase the other. It's just a descriptor, like 'girly' or fuckin. 'blue-hair.' the girly tag doesn't erase the male tag.

weirdoslam said:
and btw, we do have the right, if not the fucking OBLIGATION, to be pissed about this bigoted waffling on the tag policy. it took u 12 fucking years to get even this far, cuz the money of bigoted chasers in denial ment to much too much for u shitty hateful mods. it’s about time u get with the moral political program for fucking once.

• Only 3 admins are getting paid, the rest are volunteers, including me. Money has nothing to do with this decision.

• We are not the same group of admins that were running the site 12 years ago. In fact, none of the admins from 12 years ago are currently part of the team.

• None of this is personal or political. It literally is just a change of terminology for something less vulgar.

weirdoslam said:
maybe if u stopped tone-policing members of our oppressed community on them bringing up their genuine problems with this policy, maybe if u actually listened to the ideas she was trying to say, she would be more then willing to listen back to u.

I'm "tone-policing" because I want everyone (not just transfolk) to communicate coherently. Flinging false accusations is not a way to convey whatever message you have. Also, they didn't state any ideas, just criticism and insults.

weirdoslam said:
also did u even read my post? we can have trans_female and cis_female both be under a female parent tag. this isn’t hard.

We tag by visuals, we do not tag by lore. Currently we do not have lore tags, maybe somewhere in future, but not right now.

Everyone is still free to state lore or bio in character wiki or description of the post if they feel so strongly to message to viewer if the character is trans or cis.
E: and of course visibly_trans is useable.

weirdoslam said:
also did u even read my post? we can have trans_female and cis_female both be under a female parent tag. this isn’t hard.

That's a stupid idea.
If someone wants to look up females on e621, I'm pretty sure they don't want their search results to be peppered with trans characters.

We have enough of that problem with males that are force tagged female just because they have a feminine figure and their dick isn't showing

Chaser said:
Herm is short for Hermaphrodite, which is a scientific term. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermaphrodite
From that article:
Stop trying to make everything about you, because it isn't. Cuntboys/dickgirls/herms ARE NOT TRANSGENDER and have been around longer than transgender has been well known to everyone. Stop trying to ruin everyone's fun time.

a fucking admin saying this bigoted bullshit is only proving my fucking point.

yes we all know the scientific term. it’s also not used on humans in biology cuz there’s no known form of human intersex that can be truely described as hermaphroditism. and intersex people irl fucking hate that term. it’s obv a slur, fucking any actual intersex person and they will tell u so 100%. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y9oQThUHRc

and the only reason we ever called trans people any of those bigoted terms before in history is because of the lack of knowledge of the term “transgender” in those times, if not the absolute transphobic refusal to be respectful to us as human beings and just calling us slurs with intentional maliciousness.

and btw. the “fun time” of trans people, lifelong trans furries on this site, is already being ruined every day by this considering bullshit by the mod team. and if ur a cis bigot and our questioning and critiquing of ur fucking reactionary hate speech is ruining ur “fun time”, fucking good. ur evil for getting joy in transphobia and u don’t deserve to have any fun at all.

Mairo said:
We tag by visuals, we do not tag by lore. Currently we do not have lore tags, maybe somewhere in future, but not right now.

Everyone is still free to state lore or bio in character wiki or description of the post if they feel so strongly to message to viewer if the character is trans or cis.
E: and of course visibly_trans is useable.

Citing site policy is not a very good defense against allegations of having a transphobic site policy. Because, the thing about site policy, is that it can be changed to not be transphobic.

Before you say it, yes, I know you weren't trying to defend against said allegations, and you were merely stating the site policy as everyone here is wont to do any time criticism arises. But being okay with having a transphobic site policy is not a very good way to quell criticisms about said transphobic site policy.

Untamed said:
That's a stupid idea.
If someone wants to look up females on e621, I'm pretty sure they don't want their search results to be peppered with trans characters.

thanks for revealing ur own transphobia pal.

btw did u not see the part where u can have a tag just for cis females too?

Untamed said:
That's a stupid idea.
If someone wants to look up females on e621, I'm pretty sure they don't want their search results to be peppered with trans characters.

And if trans people want to look up characters that represent them, we don't want to be forced to type in a slur, or dehumanize ourselves, or pretend we're not "real" women.

I care about one of these wants significantly more than the other.

weirdoslam said:
a fucking admin saying this bigoted bullshit is only proving my fucking point.

yes we all know the scientific term. it’s also not used on humans in biology cuz there’s no known form of human intersex that can be truely described as hermaphroditism. and intersex people irl fucking hate that term. it’s obv a slur, fucking any actual intersex person and they will tell u so 100%. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y9oQThUHRc

and the only reason we ever called trans people any of those bigoted terms before in history is because of the lack of knowledge of the term “transgender” in those times, if not the absolute transphobic refusal to be respectful to us as human beings and just calling us slurs with intentional maliciousness.

and btw. the “fun time” of trans people, lifelong trans furries on this site, is already being ruined every day by this considering bullshit by the mod team. and if ur a cis bigot and our questioning and critiquing of ur fucking reactionary hate speech is ruining ur “fun time”, fucking good. ur evil for getting joy in transphobia and u don’t deserve to have any fun at all.

Considering you've said nothing useful thus far, declared other users as transfobic for disagreeing with you, and there are other users in this forum who've stated themselves as trans and getting points across civilly, it seems as though you're only trying to cause a disturbance at this point. and all that will achieve is getting this forum locked, which will only ruin the opportunity for others like you to say their bits before action takes place.

(Fun fact did you know phobia doesn't mean hate but fear?)