James Christopher Hoyt / Sangie/Sanguine Nativus / DJ Toboe / Tobyredwolf - Creator of InkedFur, convicted pedophile, partner-in-crime to Levi Simmons/SnakeThing

[DarkResearchAnon]

Hey guys! Look what I found! Snakething has links to pedophile antifas!

!

 

[Reynard]

Hey guys! Look what I found! Snakething has links to pedophile antifas!View attachment 622019 !

Correct me if I’m wrong? But I think these had already leaked. Though I don’t think anything this condensed was ever put out.

Also, that one bunny in the cub fucker art wasn’t always a cub, but he seems to be getting a ton of cub art lately. If he’s getting art with a convicted pedophile I’d say he’s worth looking into.

 

[DarkResearchAnon]

Here's the bunny's Twitter: https://twitter.com/chapillelp?lang=en
And his facebook, https://www.facebook.com/people/Sleepy-La-Paresse/100004855907536
And His FA: https://www.furaffinity.net/user/sleepylp/
And His Patreon: ttps://www.patreon.com/user/creators?u=452569
Oh, and here's sangie's contact info:
Sangie Nativus, real name James Hoyt, (born October 1981) is a furry DJ and the owner of InkedFur.
https://www.furiffic.com/sangie/contactinformation

Skype sangie.nativus

Weasyl sangie

Inkbunny sangie

Fur Affinity sangie

And he's yet another furry DJ: https://soundcloud.com/nativus
He also owns an art site: http://en.wikifur.com/wiki/InkedFur

 

[Reynard]

Here's the bunny's Twitter: https://twitter.com/chapillelp?lang=en
And his facebook, https://www.facebook.com/people/Sleepy-La-Paresse/100004855907536
And His FA: https://www.furaffinity.net/user/sleepylp/
And His Patreon: ttps://www.patreon.com/user/creators?u=452569

Where’s the InkBunny? He commissions cub art of his public fursona, there’s no way he doesn’t have one.

 

[DarkResearchAnon]

Where’s the InkBunny? He commissions cub art of his public fursona, there’s no way he doesn’t have one.

Here, forgot. https://inkbunny.net/Sangie

Also have his journals, the commie has cancer! And is STILL butt-hurt over #gamergate, to the point of fanboying Zoe Quinn.

 

[Meowthkip]

@DarkResearchAnon Please make sure you post any information on someone in their relevant thread from now on.

Thank you.

 

[DarkResearchAnon]

@DarkResearchAnon Please make sure you post any information on someone in their relevant thread from now on.

Thank you.

All right. I'll see what I can dig up. This entire Zoosadist thing is quite the rabbit hole, first pedophiles, now antifa.

 

[CIA Nigger]

Here, forgot. https://inkbunny.net/Sangie

His InkBunny journal is fucking funny too, there isn't a lot besides an old post and a recent post. It's rich that he's saying he's not a risk to children.

 

[TheWatchfulFurfag]

His InkBunny journal is fucking funny too, there isn't a lot besides an old post and a recent post. It's rich that he's saying he's not a risk to children.
View attachment 622349
View attachment 622348

Means alot coming from a twice convicted paedophile and guy currently grooming kids.

 

[nonnewtonian]

James and InkedFur are in hot water over an artbook/zine. Contributing artists only received $7.30 despite information from IF indicating they should have received double that amount ($606.90 divided among 41 artists = $14.80 per artist). IF is ignoring requests for sales figures.

https://archive.fo/1uk5G
https://archive.fo/JwfjA
https://archive.fo/uIhkl
https://archive.fo/YwfMt
Artists were also not told that copies had been sold to Rabbit Valley Comics, a third party distributor. Information given to the artists in the original Artist Guide only mentioned sales through IF.

https://archive.fo/XU9bC
https://archive.fo/qW4Gs
IF and James himself say that despite being an art based company for half a decade, they "lack the feature" to do basic shit like digital sales and PDFs. That didn't stop them from promising PDF sales in the Artist Guide back in late 2017. Over a year later, they are still "working on it" with no idea when it will ever happen.

https://archive.fo/k0wMm
https://archive.fo/jrH2f
One artist claims IF staff members told them differing stories about James position in the company, that he was either kicked entirely or his involvement had been greatly cut back. However if you look at the previous email he signs it with "InkedFur Owner," and as we know from MFF photos he still represents the company at conventions.

https://archive.fo/bP0lb
Rather than try to salvage business relations with the artists involved and minimize public relations damage, James decided he would not do future runs of the zine (artists were told it would be a one time limited run) because people were complaining about his shitty business practices. He also said he didn't see the point in digital sales and giving consumers more ways to support artists because "all the work is already available online."

https://archive.fo/nytAY

In fairness to the artists involved, this project was announced a full year before the leaks reaffirming James is a practicing pedophile.

 

[TheWatchfulFurfag]

James and InkedFur are in hot water over an artbook/zine. Contributing artists only received $7.30 despite information from IF indicating they should have received double that amount ($606.90 divided between 41 artists = $14.80 per artist). IF is ignoring requests for sales figures.
View attachment 684738View attachment 684739View attachment 684792View attachment 684793
https://archive.fo/1uk5G
https://archive.fo/JwfjA
https://archive.fo/uIhkl
https://archive.fo/YwfMt
Artists were also not told that copies had been sold to Rabbit Valley Comics, a third party distributor. Information given to the artists in the original Artist Guide only mentioned sales through IF.
View attachment 684735View attachment 684801View attachment 684773
https://archive.fo/XU9bC
https://archive.fo/qW4Gs
IF and James himself say that despite being an art based company for half a decade, they "lack the feature" to do basic shit like digital sales and PDFs. That didn't stop them from promising PDF sales in the Artist Guide back in late 2017. A full year later, they are still "working on it" with no idea when it will ever happen.
View attachment 684734View attachment 684737View attachment 684740View attachment 684772
https://archive.fo/k0wMm
https://archive.fo/jrH2f
One artist claims IF staff members told them differing stories about James position in the company, that he was either kicked entirely or his involvement had been greatly cut back. However if you look at the previous email he signs it with "InkedFur Owner," and as we know from MFF photos he still represents the company at conventions.
View attachment 684736
https://archive.fo/bP0lb
Rather than try to salvage business relations with the artists involved and minimize public relations damage, James decided he would not do future runs of the zine (artists were told it would be a one time limited run) because people were complaining about his shitty business practices. He also said he didn't see the point in digital sales and giving consumers more ways to support artists because "all the work is already available online."
View attachment 684763View attachment 684764View attachment 684776
https://archive.fo/nytAY

In fairness to the artists involved, this project was announced a full year before the leaks reaffirming James is a practicing pedophile.
View attachment 684788

I wonder when they'll cancel James.

 

[mASSive dONg]

James and InkedFur are in hot water over an artbook/zine. Contributing artists only received $7.30 despite information from IF indicating they should have received double that amount ($606.90 divided between 41 artists = $14.80 per artist). IF is ignoring requests for sales figures.
View attachment 684738View attachment 684739View attachment 684792View attachment 684793
https://archive.fo/1uk5G
https://archive.fo/JwfjA
https://archive.fo/uIhkl
https://archive.fo/YwfMt
Artists were also not told that copies had been sold to Rabbit Valley Comics, a third party distributor. Information given to the artists in the original Artist Guide only mentioned sales through IF.
View attachment 684735View attachment 684801View attachment 684773
https://archive.fo/XU9bC
https://archive.fo/qW4Gs
IF and James himself say that despite being an art based company for half a decade, they "lack the feature" to do basic shit like digital sales and PDFs. That didn't stop them from promising PDF sales in the Artist Guide back in late 2017. A full year later, they are still "working on it" with no idea when it will ever happen.
View attachment 684734View attachment 684737View attachment 684740View attachment 684772
https://archive.fo/k0wMm
https://archive.fo/jrH2f
One artist claims IF staff members told them differing stories about James position in the company, that he was either kicked entirely or his involvement had been greatly cut back. However if you look at the previous email he signs it with "InkedFur Owner," and as we know from MFF photos he still represents the company at conventions.
View attachment 684736
https://archive.fo/bP0lb
Rather than try to salvage business relations with the artists involved and minimize public relations damage, James decided he would not do future runs of the zine (artists were told it would be a one time limited run) because people were complaining about his shitty business practices. He also said he didn't see the point in digital sales and giving consumers more ways to support artists because "all the work is already available online."
View attachment 684763View attachment 684764View attachment 684776
https://archive.fo/nytAY

In fairness to the artists involved, this project was announced a full year before the leaks reaffirming James is a practicing pedophile.
View attachment 684788

I'd love to know how InkedFur and James in particular are still going strong. The corruption is despicable.

Many artists I know and follow still use the site and it breaks my heart. They need to move on for their own good.

 

[Frogasm]

Wild to me that people are publishing the fact that he scammed them more intensely than the fact that he's a fucking pedo. I shouldnt be surprised that furries don't care about this but i'm sure disappointed. I'm also exasprated furries don't just boycot artists who use inkedfur until they kill the cashflow to inkedfur

 

[HeraldofNurgle]

Of course a lot of furs just care about the money. It's okay to work with a pedophile as long as you get your proper royalties. As soon as you ain't getting paid, THEN it's the time for call outs.

At this point if people are STILL involved with inkedfur after all this info, they should expect to get scammed. The company has been scummy since the very beginning.

Boy would I love to get ahold of their sales figures and see if they took any major hits since the leak dropped.

 

[TheWatchfulFurfag]

Of course a lot of furs just care about the money. It's okay to work with a pedophile as long as you get your proper royalties. As soon as you ain't getting paid, THEN it's the time for call outs.

At this point if people are STILL involved with inkedfur after all this info, they should expect to get scammed. The company has been scummy since the very beginning.

Boy would I love to get ahold of their sales figures and see if they took any major hits since the leak dropped.

As I said earlier, alot of popufurs and big artists deal with inkedfur. They'll do deals with the literal devil if it means saving a few bucks.

 

[CIA Nigger]

I'd love to know how InkedFur and James in particular are still going strong. The corruption is despicable.

Many artists I know and follow still use the site and it breaks my heart. They need to move on for their own good.

The thing with furries is they have a real bad habit of continuing to throw money at scammers because they're popufurs or provide a service and furries are willing to overlook red flags if it means they can get what they want. Inkedfur's niche is they sell prints and products with art by furry artists on them, instead of comics or books like a lot of other furry printers specialize in and that's why some big furries remained silent when the Sangie leaks dropped, they had something to lose for speaking out.

There's also the fact that with some furries they're trained to ignore anything negative about people and this is fueled by the fact that furries love to hide behind "the trolls are stalking me" when called out. Look at how often Eevee bitches about the Kiwi Farms thread on him and his wife and Eevee is far from the only furry to bitch about their threads here. The fact that a lot of callout posts tend to be over the pettiest shit doesn't help matters.

The end result of that is what you can see here. Furries ignore the fact that the owner of a company they want to do business with both is a pedophile and got artists on his own site to fight in an attempt to manufacture drama, and the end result is this.

 

[HeraldofNurgle]

As I said earlier, alot of popufurs and big artists deal with inkedfur. They'll do deals with the literal devil if it means saving a few bucks.

I've seen some artists pull their works after the leaks dropped. Ones that were actually making money. So it's no excuse that you can't afford to pull out from InkedFur. Online print sites are pretty numerous and there's even other furry based ones that seem to be run by relatively clean people. You can easily move and get your money from people other than a pedophile.

At this point I am going to assume that people that are still using Inkedfur after all these drops must actively support Sangie's fucked up values. They have a choice to move on or stay with the site. By staying it only asserts to me that they care more about a dollar than the lives of innocent children.

 

[TheWatchfulFurfag]

I've seen some artists pull their works after the leaks dropped. Ones that were actually making money. So it's no excuse that you can't afford to pull out from InkedFur. Online print sites are pretty numerous and there's even other furry based ones that seem to be run by relatively clean people. You can easily move and get your money from people other than a pedophile.

At this point I am going to assume that people that are still using Inkedfur after all these drops must actively support Sangie's fucked up values. They have a choice to move on or stay with the site. By staying it only asserts to me that they care more about a dollar than the lives of innocent children.

Oh I agree. I personally know several artists who pulled their work. Sangie is a piece of shit, and anyone who continues to use his services and support him, especially given he's clearly shown to still be grooming kids, is suspect at the very damned least. I suspect Sangie himself knows things. You don't be who he is for all this time and not know things.

Hell, I partly think he got his record expunged by cooperating with the law and ratting on several others. Because he was convicted of doing shit with kids. Convicted sex offenders often end up on the registry for life. So why hasn't James?

Hence why I think he was cut some kind of deal, and took it.

 

[nonnewtonian]

InkedFur is back in the shit again.

Anuki, an artist who used to work with IF, has publicly demanded they stop selling her work at conventions, saying they weren't even paying her royalties.

https://archive.fo/E0jVE
InkedFur responded by pointing to their contract that states an artist forfeit royalties if he/she leaves. They end their statement with "If you want to keep getting paid, don't quit."

https://archive.fo/hTwpF
As you can tell by the replies to likes/retweets ratio this did not go over well. It sounds like artists might be pursuing legal action.

Inuki does not remember signing a contract, and others chimed in saying InkedFur does not require contracts and even provided DMs from IF staff stating as much.

https://archive.fo/YinRy
https://archive.fo/LPYFq
https://archive.fo/Cz9OX

Another former IF artist, Kuro, posted her own experience working with the company. They continued to sell her prints despite both parties agreeing IF would only sell the remaining stock of her mousepads and nothing else.

Spoiler: Screencaps from tweets

https://archive.fo/fDYRn


In other InkedFur news, one of their artists curators and the guy behind the Knotty Boys zine has quit the company. He has asked to have his page removed from InkedFur. 10 days later, they still have not complied with his request (archived page appears to have no art, checking the live page shows his content is still up as of this posting). He is also still listed as staff on IF's FurAffinity page despite leaving.

https://archive.fo/mVS6H
In a statement posted to Google Docs, Kei accuses James of throwing him under the bus in regards to the Knotty Boys shitshow and that he would not give Kei sales figures even though Kei was both a contributor to the zine and IF staff at the time. He claims James is extremely hostile towards staff and artists who leave IF and is prone to angry outbursts and false accusations (like accusing another printing company of bribing artists to leave IF). He does briefly acknowledge James' pedophilia but says he is not comfortable discussing it due to his own experience with being abused as a child.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MqBjGGiPNWDbk_d-vm6XhtbkLmFSkohEwdWtGtiQj-0/edit

So I’ve been asked why I left InkedFur, I’ve been quiet so far as I’ve been dealing with trying to get answers and sorting out things around leaving InkedFur, but I don’t want to ignore the issue any longer.

I don’t have access to any logs from the staff chat as I left that when I left staff. And many of the issues happened in those chats. And I have no logs of personal conversations with Sangie from before October 15th 2018 as he deleted his old telegram account and our chat logs were deleted without me thinking to save them.

Let’s start from the beginning.

I have known Sangie for about 5 years. I was approached by him back in 2014 sometime between Jan and September to join the new print company he was making called InkedFur. I was an excited 21 year old new to selling my art in physical form and did so eagerly.

I don’t remember how exactly it happened but I ended up becoming InkedFur staff. My roles over the time as InkedFur staff were around approving submissions and getting them uploaded to the site for sale, and at one point I was inviting artists to join InkedFur (after seeing a recent screenshot of the guy who handles that now, telling people there’s no contract, I can assure everyone that was never part of any invitation I sent).

After awhile I stopped doing much due to personal life issues and never really picked back up doing anything with them but I was still involved in the staff chats until March 4th 2019 where I often tried to give advice on things as a resident artist.

Over that time I was aware of issues with artists but naively chalked it all up to ‘ah some artists expect special treatment and kick off when they dont get it.’ I also trusted pretty much everything Sangie told me about any situations that arose because I’m the kind of person who trusts people I consider friends to be telling the truth.

Looking back I can see a lot of things were red flags, from claiming another print company paid an artist $1000 to leave InkedFur and start a smear campaign against Sangie, to me telling Sangie off for misgendering a past staff member after they left, but ultimately letting it slide in the interest of avoiding conflict.

I defended him and InkedFur to friends and other artists when they brought up concerns. I always tried to be transparent and pass on information I believed to be true, especially in regards to InkedFur removing cub art from the site (which several of us staff pushed for) and how it sometimes slipped through the approval process but wasn’t allowed and should be reported if seen.

I can now see I received a lot of preferential treatment which made me think, ‘hey Sangie is nice he’d do this for any artist!’, I could PM Sangie at the drop of a hat and ask for info on things or prompt him up upload stuff or ask for advice on print related stuff.

He did things like pay for the upfront cost of Knotty Boys so that it could get made and I was extremely thankful and excited because without that I couldn’t do it. He promised certain percentages of profits to be split between artists, which he’s now trying to say are different despite me having a record of having told artists what He’d promised right after he had via the update emails.

Over time I started to want to leave because of the stress of both his behaviour, and people approaching me privately about issues. But was relying on the sales made through them to help top up my ability to pay rent and food costs.

I still trusted Sangie to tell me the truth about things, but very much disliked the way he handled issues (with big emotional outbursts and accusations being thrown all over the place and hostile comments toward anyone who left staff or toward most artists who left InkedFur), especially after the misgendering incident. I stopped advertising that I was staff at InkedFur around the same time.

I gradually got more and more uncomfortable with how things were handled, and how any advice on how to improve was ignored. However, I still considered Sangie a good friend then. Besides the financial concerns I also stayed because I didn’t want to upset him and because I cared about the company itself, I’d been with it so long and tried pretty hard to help make it better (clearly without much success).

I was ignorant to many of the issues around Sangie out of blind loyalty and others out of trying not to set off my own issues.

After the recent problems around InkedFur and the art book I organised, Knotty Boys, occurred I had a brief ‘conversation’ with Sangie about the issues while I was still staff which essentially amounted to me asking a big WHAT THE FUCK and Sangie repeatedly telling me I was remembering things wrong (which is something he did a lot when issues arose about anything).

I resigned from InkedFur staff on March 4th as I felt being part of the company during that was a conflict of interest.

The project was organised by me and I was the point of contact for artists. Sangie was handling manufacturing, sales, distribution and payouts of royalties, everything from the point of art being done and sent to him was handled by him as i=InkedFur. I passed on information from him to artists as it was talked about, however due to Sangie deleting his past telegram account, I no longer have any of the logs of any of those conversations with him, only the emails that I sent out to artists with that information.

I was refused the sales figures despite him having given partial ones to me before when the book first went on sale. I was unaware that the PDF still wasn’t on sale on the new website or that the old site had been disabled. I was unaware that a re-print of the books has been made when it had been agreed the book would be limited print.

My questions have repeatedly gone unanswered and I became aware after seeing screenshots from other artists trying to talk to him about these issues, that he was repeatedly trying to push me under the bus, saying that he should have left all the payments to me.

Here’s the text of the email I sent to artists that goes into more detail about the issues with Knotty Boys. It gets pretty long so it’s in the document I wrote it in instead of as a screenshot. The issues are ongoing and legal advice is being sought in regards to these problems.

Sangies initial replies really smack of ‘If Kei had handled the payments then people would be mad at him not me’ even though it would still need to go through him regardless and many of the other issues were down to him as well. I’m not saying I didn’t make mistakes with the project (and I’ve spoked to the other artists about those, mostly communication issues form the last few months, and conflicting information on some things due to copying information that kept changing without me taking note, directly from Sangie to emails.).

He also told other artists that he’s working with me in regards to the issues however like I said, I’ve had almost none of my questions answered or requests for information granted. We were offered two options going forward and when I said I’d need to discuss them with artists after receiving sales figures, he replied in a way that heavily suggested he’d just be doing one of the options without our input, against what I’d requested.

At one point my ticket was closed without answer, and after tweeting about it received an email answer demanding I delete the tweet as it was untrue. (To which I replied with a screenshot of said ticket being closed and refusing to delete the tweet.)

After seeing how widespread and long term the issues with InkedFur are, I withdrew from InkedFur as an artist on March 13th.

I asked for a list of my remaining physical stock which I won’t be purchasing from them due to financial restraints. So from 13th March, I get no royalties from any sales of my work sold via InkedFur.

As of 22nd March they have yet to remove my store from their website despite it having been 10 days since requesting it and them having been able to do a stock check within 48 hours. I have told them that if it’s not taken down I’ll be filing DMCA’s to remove my work from the site. It also took them a good few days after I left staff to remove me from their public staff list.

I have still not received a reply to my previous email to them regarding Knotty Boys issues and am awaiting a reply to my concerns over the fact that my due royalties were displayed as being one amount on March 4th, for Jan 8th to March 4th period, but on March 13th before I resigned, they were down to $0, and I have not received a payout for that period. (the last payout I received was on January 26th for December royalties from website sales, which was lower than the due amount for January so I believe that’s a different amount.)

I urge any artists selling with them to check their artists dashboard and check back what royalties were due in certain periods and cross check that with their paypal to see if things were received as they should have been since the new site went live.

I also apologise for continuing to work with InkedFur as staff and ignoring things I knew were issues out of a misguided sense of loyalty. I also apologise to anyone I may have blocked or fallen out with in any way over taking InkedFur’s side in any issues they may have had with them.

I’m re-assessing a lot of things around InkedFur now and I hope people can forgive me going forward for my ignorance.

As usual, if anyone has concerns or further questions, I’m more than happy to discuss them.

However I please ask people not talk to me about any accusations regarding Sangie and pedophilia or sex offences as I’m unable to cope with them due to my childhood. I care about the topic but I’m not the best person to deal with those kinds of issues and conversations about them.

The best ways to contact me are via email (clubgalaxyart[a]gmail.com <- please include that it’s about InkedFur in the subject line so I can easily differentiate it from coms emails) or tweeting at me. If you send a DM on twitter please also shoot me a tweet saying you sent a DM as I often miss them.

Looking at archives of the InkedFur staff page it looks like several have left since last October.

Spoiler: From October 2018

Spoiler: From March 2019

However all those removed from their official site page are still listed on their FA page, as mentioned earlier in Kei's case.

Whether this means they are in the same boat as Kei or are hiding their involvement with James and his company is not known.

 

[mASSive dONg]

InkedFur is back in the shit again.

Anuki, an artist who used to work with IF, has publicly demanded they stop selling her work at conventions, saying they weren't even paying her royalties.
View attachment 704443
https://archive.fo/E0jVE
InkedFur responded by pointing to their contract that states an artist forfeit royalties if he/she leaves. They end their statement with "If you want to keep getting paid, don't quit."
View attachment 704450
https://archive.fo/hTwpF
As you can tell by the replies to likes/retweets ratio this did not go over well. It sounds like artists might be pursuing legal action.
View attachment 704468View attachment 704469View attachment 704466View attachment 704467View attachment 704548
Inuki does not remember signing a contract, and others chimed in saying InkedFur does not require contracts and even provided DMs from IF staff stating as much.
View attachment 704459View attachment 704460View attachment 704465View attachment 704457
https://archive.fo/YinRy
https://archive.fo/LPYFq
https://archive.fo/Cz9OX

Another former IF artist, Kuro, posted her own experience working with the company. They continued to sell her prints despite both parties agreeing IF would only sell the remaining stock of her mousepads and nothing else.
View attachment 704532View attachment 704533View attachment 704534View attachment 704535

Spoiler: Screencaps from tweets

View attachment 704531View attachment 704528View attachment 704526View attachment 704530View attachment 704527View attachment 704529

https://archive.fo/fDYRn


In other InkedFur news, one of their artists curators and the guy behind the Knotty Boys zine has quit the company. He has asked to have his page removed from InkedFur. 10 days later, they still have not complied with his request (archived page appears to have no art, checking the live page shows his content is still up as of this posting). He is also still listed as staff on IF's FurAffinity page despite leaving.
View attachment 704494View attachment 704495View attachment 704496
https://archive.fo/mVS6H
In a statement posted to Google Docs, Kei accuses James of throwing him under the bus in regards to the Knotty Boys shitshow and that he would not give Kei sales figures even though Kei was both a contributor to the zine and IF staff at the time. He claims James is extremely hostile towards staff and artists who leave IF and is prone to angry outbursts and false accusations (like accusing another printing company of bribing artists to leave IF). He does briefly acknowledge James' pedophilia but says he is not comfortable discussing it due to his own experience with being abused as a child.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MqBjGGiPNWDbk_d-vm6XhtbkLmFSkohEwdWtGtiQj-0/edit


Looking at archives of the InkedFur staff page it looks like several have left since last October.

Spoiler: From October 2018

View attachment 704551

Spoiler: From March 2019

View attachment 704566

However all those removed from their official site page are still listed on their FA page, as mentioned earlier in Kei's case.
View attachment 704580
Whether this means they are in the same boat as Kei or are hiding their involvement with James and his company is not known.

How IF is still afloat really baffles me. It's clear artists don't get paid very much and very few individuals don't know the darkness within - many people I know buy elsewhere.