Trump announces temporary deal to reopen government
So, he caved, for nothing? So democrats get the optics of Trump caving and trumpet supporters get what, exactly?
Art of the Fold, apparently. It's not even that conservatives get nothing -- there's more. Conservatives are actually getting less than they would have a few weeks ago. There was a continuing resolution on the table before Christmas that provided $1.3 billion for border security. With this "deal," there's nothing and then the sting of knowing there had been something at a point along the way.
And now he's on television saying, "We do not need 2,000 miles of concrete wall from sea shining sea. We never did. We never proposed that. We never wanted that."
Quite the fumble for the Negotiator-in-Chief.
I’m with you. I’m a conservative who has posted in this sub regularly. This shutdown disaster is inexcusable. Democrats know that Trump is toast in 2020 if he has no wall. If 1 in 25 Trump voters stay at home or even vote Democrat in 2020, the GOP will lose in a landslide. Republicans controlled congress and the presidency for two years and did nothing regarding the wall. The only shot the GOP has of not crashing and burning is if Democrats continue to just be terrible, which is not that far-fetched given the raucous caused by AOC.
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Nothing. Trump simply got himself into a losing position because... who knows.
and trumpet supporters get what, exactly?
You "get" what this was all about from the beginning. You get demoralized. You won't vote for a democrat but you also won't get off your butt again to vote for Trump. And that is how they won.
One term president. He ran on wanting to build up our border security and the people backed him up.
Sad!
Should have taken the $5.7 billion for border security and then still declared a national emergency and gotten the military to build the wall.
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Bad Trump. Loser Trump. Spineless Trump.
He played hardball and then gave up. And for what?
So I only caught bits and pieces of the live feed because my connection kept dropping, but towards the end it sounded like he gave an ultimatum. Either reach a deal by February or he'd use an alternative method (to which, I figure he was referring to the state of emergency route).
If he actually sticks to that statement, then is a temporary reopening all that bad?
If he manages to get the wall funding out of this (without state of emergency) then I will retract what I said I call him a genius. But I feel like this move takes pressure off of the Dems and makes them less likely to cooperate. Sure, we get the state of the union. But Trump has the internet. He could have done it by himself in his office if he wanted to. And he could have used it to slam the Dems and pressure them into folding. I feel like that would have been a smarter strategy.
I really don't want him to declare a state of emergency because it's a bad precedent to set. Next time we have a dem president and there's a mass shooting we will see an emergency declared and the 2a will be shredded. It's a can of worms I really don't want opened.
There is zero, and in no, chance that he will get one cent for wall funding. If he tries the "state of emergency" route he not only will be stonewalled instantly in court, but leaves the door open for President AOC (or whoever) to declare a state of emergency for climate change or anything else.
Absolutely terrible. Complete waste. If he was going to cave he shouldn't have started this in the first place. He looks weak and childish. Worst outcome possible.
He should have done this in 2017 and 2018 when we had the House.
He should have done this in 2017 and 2018 when we had the House.
Surely you mean the "republicans" in the house and senate should have. Let's not misplace the blame.
Yeah imagine the spineless losers on this sub holding Ryan and co accountable. Fat fuckin chance.
Ryan is gone because conservatives we're pissed at him. Trump signed those shitty budgets. They funded PP yet not border security.
Ryan is gone because conservatives we're pissed at him
Imagine believing this.
It may, but we would have a bit of moral high ground if a Republican didn't do it first. And when you consider that there is almost no chance that even if done that dollar one actually gets spent on border security it's a stupid move. Make yourself look bad to no end.
Moral high ground means nothing when the opposition is moralless
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emergency declared and the 2a will be shredded.
Unless they stack the courts this cannot happen. He can declare a national emergency and it will be tied up in the courts. If the courts deem it as such we get the Wall. No way would this court allow for our guns to be taken.
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That power is already there. They don't need a precedent, just need a population to accept it.
What are you talking about? When was presssure ever on the dems? They literally control every aspect of our media besides Fox. They will never place blame and pressure on the Democrats. Their goal is demoralize Republicans so they do not get off there asses and vote and they are quite effective at it because Republicans appear to be okay with Democrats winning, but Democrats fucking melt down when Republicans win.
Why are Republicans so susceptible to the attempts at demoralization and manipulation? It is almost like people have the logic of "If I don't get a border wall, we are done and we now must surrender the country to open border Democrats because those Democrats said so."
Well at least I took the moral high ground. It’s over and I lost but at least I lost being morally right
Yes he could have gone the internet route, no disagreeing there. And I also think it would be better to go through congress as well, but if it isn't going to go through congress, I'd rather a state of emergency than no solution at all. As for your specific worry, I don't see how that would be possible.
First, if a Democratic president thought they could do that, they'd do it anyway, regardless of what Trump does or doesn't do.
Second, and I could be completely wrong on this since I don't know the specifics of how he'd go about building a wall with state of emergency powers (all my knowledge of it comes from what I've seen people say in comments on reddit), but from what I gather the state of emergency solution relies on him being able to declare a state of emergency (for any reason he deems an emergency), and then use state of emergency powers to get something built. I don't see how using a specific powers that allows the president, during a state of emergency, to do construction would let a dem President gut the 2A. If I'm missing something here, feel free to point it out.
I don't think the Dems were ever going to budge. I want to see how this plays out.
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I don’t believe he has legal authority to declare national emergency to actually build the wall. If he does do that, it will get struck down in court and we’ll be right back at square 1 with trump blaming the courts and not the democrats.
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I really hope that strategy works out. I would have rather he kept it shut down and delivered his state of the union address directly to the people, in the same way he talked about the immigration crisis a while back. Put more pressure on the Dems and force them to fold.
This way is risky. Giving them time like this takes the pressure off.
The problem is that he doesnt have a direct line to the American people without the press. The news headline would read "Trump defies tradition and issues a statement while the federal government is shut down." Now, I think he should have done what you have suggested but I think his line line of thinking is that he needs the official SotU to reach the largest number of Americans.
If he does it right, if he nails the message and stands firm on the wall the three weeks he gave up will be seen as a peace offering not to Dems but to the public. Whether we like it or not, Americans sympathize with government workers. Don't ask me why. Probably because they are more popular than politicians. Which isn't hard to achieve but most Americans want to see a compromise.
As of right now the public is just not sold on the idea of a wall being part of a compromise. This is where the media comes in. It sucks but Trump needs to get as many eyes on his message as possible and he can't do that right now. His message is being drowned out by the media and their successful gaslighting of the public.
This is the only thing that could make this acceptable to me. I'd like to see him announce the emergency at the SOTU.
This guy is obviously not a journalist, he knows how to code! 😉
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Wall funding will never happen. I really don't get why Trump didn't make this stand last couple years. This kills the GOP for years now. They might have already lost 2020 election because of this.
This does Trump in for 2020. He really should say he isn't running again (he won't). Border security was his chief issue, and he got nothing done about it. No reason to vote for him again.
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We never had the votes for the wall, but if the government shut down when Republicans controlled all three branches it would have been more damaging.
He gave an ultimatum every day for the last 35 days. He is no longer credible and will continue to be steamrolled for the remainder of his term.
Same here. But the reaction today is just what I expected from a lot.
The GOP is finished in 2020.
Trump is basically Pelosi's bitch.
I'm willing to wait 3 weeks, but this really doesn't make me confident in the outcome.
He caved for nothing, not a dime of wall funding. The dems are the party of resist that is not going to change this had nothing to do with the wall.
Either he doesn't understand negotiations as well as he's claimed to or I don't understand them enough.
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Its insane that he'd just cave in like this. What does it even accomplish? Democrats are never going to vote for a wall, if he wants to build it via national emergency now'd have been as good as any a time to do it.
Are you paying attention China and North Korea? We have a weakling in the White House. No need to concede or compromise on anything.
Even though I don't like Ben Shapiro... Bad Trump
Well that's me decided for 2020. Crenshaw 2020.
I'm jumping back on the Ted Cruz/Mike Lee train.
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I agree generally, but the skepticism here is understandable. The Democrats didn’t move an inch. They sat back and waited it out while the media pounded Trump and his approval sunk. They have no reason to start bargaining now, their left wing wants them to resist, and doing that just made Trump cave.
If they do nothing over the next three weeks, Trump won’t shut the government down again, and if he tries the emergency route, it will be equally unpopular and legally dubious.
This shutdown was Trump’s only chance to get concessions from Pelosi. That’s gone now.
Yes, disappointed in how many people didn’t even bother to read up on the article. This very well might be a good play.
Trump gave them an ultimatum of 3 weeks to get their act together for border security or he's going to take care of it himself.
Literally the exact same ultimatum he gave 5 weeks ago. He's just moving the goalposts.
“i MaKe tHe BeSt DeALs”
I understand he wants the bully pulpit of the SOTU speech, but the damage of the shutdown is done. He’s getting blamed regardless. Now the PR is that Pelosi fought for worked to get him to see reason rather than that both sides wouldn’t compromise. After he came to the table with fair offers, he’s going to get blasted for the government being shutdown at all because the Dems held ranks.
Let me guess: the deal includes DACA right? No wall and Daca?
What a pussy. No balls, no backbone. No different than any establishment Republican.
Are you fucking kidding me, Trump? You had a clear fucking shot to victory and you blew it. You sat there the whole shutdown and said nothing while Democrats lived in fear of public backlash. Democrats voted down bills to pay federal employees during the shutdown and you said nothing. You caved to NANCY FUCKING PELOSI and delayed the State of the Union instead of holding it at an alternate location and highlighting their failures.
You fucked up. Myself and millions of others were willing to put up with the shutdown because we believed it was for a righteous cause. You just threw awawly 35 days for nothing.
I'm not really following your logic. Trump's position is still "no wall, no deal", and the Dem's position is still "if wall, no deal". None of that has changed. I assume the dems will act in good faith (letting the SOTU happen, go to negotiating table), but the deal breakers are still in play and everyone knows it. How does opening the government back up for three weeks turn this into a Dem shutdown? Again, nothing has changed, we just have a delay of game now.
Which is why Trump never should have asked for 5.7 billion, he left little room to negotiate to middle ground. 3 billion just won't cut it. We will have to see what Trump does next. The SotU is going to be where he sets the stage. He needs to stand firm on the 5.7 billion. I'm hope I'm wrong that Dems will successfully use the three weeks to demoralize Republicans and force Trump to negotiate down for his wall.
Dude, don't worry, The brigade is coming from the TMORs. I just found a post on their sub which specifically links to my comment.
the downvotes may be, but there are tons of conservative flairs bitching and moaning.
You know, we complain about how the Left clearly doesn't think, but I wonder if the same can be said for the Right at times.
Democrats/liberals will crawl over broken glass to vote against a Republican but the minute any conservative falls short in any way half of Conservatives swear they’re done with them and are now going to sit home and let the far left over run the country. It’s unreal.
I'm fine with dissenting opinions, I just think it's an overreaction because this is not nearly done to being over yet.
I've said it before and I will say it again. I never expected anything to really get done in congress between 2016-2018 since we didn't have super majorities. Definitely not now. He's done everything possible through EO's and cut red tape. We just have to hope people wake up in 2020 and we win the Senate and House. Get the 60 we need. Mitch needs to go. Before you use to be able to get people to cross sides. Now everything is straight down party line because the country is so divided. So it's either moderates and independents vote republican. Or pretty much nothing will ever get done ever until the demographic switch and we go full socialist in 10-20 years.
The issue is that assumes there is a negotiable point in this debate. As of right now both sides are locked in to “wall or no wall” sides that don’t have a logical compromise. House Democrats have constituents who will not accept any funding for a physical border wall. Trump and GOP congresspeople have constituents that will not accept any deal without funding for a physical wall.
This temporary reprieve of the shut down doesnt change that fundamental problem. So 3 weeks from now expect Dems to simply say “here is X amount of funding for border security, but no wall”. Which is exactly where we are now.
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What the fuck do these Republicans even stand for? Democrats are evil, Republicans are spineless, and Libertarians can’t keep it in their pants long enough to make it to the national stage. Who wants to represent me?
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