Digital License Plates Are Now Allowed in Michigan (theverge.com) 75
Digital license plates are now allowed in Michigan thanks to a new state law. It will join California and Arizona as one of the few states in the US that allow digital license plates, allowing drivers to register their cars electronically and eschew old-school metal plates. From a report: To be clear, digital license plates consist of displays covered in glass that are mounted onto a frame. They come with their own computer chips and wireless communication systems. Some of the benefits of using digital licenses versus old metal ones are the ability to display Amber alerts or stolen vehicle messages when needed, but they could also make it easier to digitally renew license plates over the years. That comes at a price, though. Currently, they cost $499 for a basic version, and $799 for a premium version that features a GPS navigation add-on.
Count me out! (Score:3)
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I'm keeping my license plate analog. If my license plate were to have discrete letters and digits, that would just make it easier for cops to identify me.
Did you get vanity plate 88BB8B8 or O0O00O0?
https://xkcd.com/1105/ [xkcd.com]
More convenient for the government and banks maybe (Score:2)
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Based on the size of the unit, it looks like there is plenty of room to add the capability to record not only your current location, but a record of where and when you traveled, along with the speeds. What a treasure trove of information to be exploited, stolen, and misused. All paid for by you! My plate will be NFW-999 (No F****** Way Ever!)
Digital License plates are another tracking method (Score:2)
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They are totally WORTHLESS for displaying amber alerts.
Typically, the police are looking for a particular vehicle during an Amber alert.
They idea is not to show that Amber alert on other people's cars. It's to make the target vehicle's license plate blink/flash/otherwise draw attention to the vehicle.
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If you can get them to shell out $799 for the premium version, they can report their GPS coordinates to the authorities as well.
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The Amber alert angle is designed to sell the plates to the state government, who would then mandate them on cars. Or as a reason for someone like GM to integrate them into the car for OnStar's "we stop the bad guys" angle.
If they were mandated, presumably the cost would be lower due to the large volume produced. For now, it's a very niche product so it's expensive.
You can see it coming (Score:3)
So all we have to do is get all the kiddie fiddlers to buy $500 plates.
So the next obvious step is to mandate all sex offenders registering in the state, must in fact buy these plates... who would vote against that?
Then from there you do felons, then from there anyone who gets arrested for any reason, then from there everyone.
You can see it coming...
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They are totally WORTHLESS for displaying amber alerts.
Typically, the police are looking for a particular vehicle during an Amber alert.
They idea is not to show that Amber alert on other people's cars. It's to make the target vehicle's license plate blink/flash/otherwise draw attention to the vehicle.
That makes no sense -- if that have this remotely accessible device that they can set to flashing mode, why don't they just ask the device to report its location and then the police know exactly where it is, no need to wait on other drivers to report it, or turn them into vigilantes that will try to apprehend the driver themselves.
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I have yet to see a single coherent argument for digital license plates.
Here's one: The implementation will probably be so shitty they will be hackable by the owner to display whatever you want. I'm sure a certain segment of society could find that useful.
What is the ROI? (Score:4, Interesting)
Some of the benefits of using digital licenses versus old metal ones are the ability to display Amber alerts or stolen vehicle messages when needed
Not to seem callous but why would I pay (a lot) extra for the ability to display Amber alerts? And there already are pretty good and more affordable solutions for stolen cars.
Currently, they cost $499 for a basic version, and $799 for a premium version that features a GPS navigation add-on.
WTF could these things do that would possibly justify such a price point? I already have GPS in my car and my phone so that's a non-starter, especially given that it wouldn't probably be integrated into the car's infotainment system. If my car gets stolen that's what insurance is for and shockingly my insurance appears cheaper than these things. I'm all for doing things a better way but I don't see any meaningful benefit here.
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Primary use is for tracking. Some countries are considering it to assess road taxes. The other reason is to enrich government and its cronies. A digital display does not cost $500; an iPad does and is much larger and more powerful than what this needs to do. I can get these produced out of China for $50/pc (1000 minimum).
Tracking (Score:2)
Primary use is for tracking.
Presumably but I don't seem much reason to buy one for that since it doesn't benefit me in the slightest. My phone doing it is bad enough already.
Some countries are considering it to assess road taxes.
Which would be idiotic. Tax fuel (gasoline, diesel, and/or electricity) at appropriate levels and you accomplish the sensible goal of taxing in close accordance with utilization. The bigger the vehicle and the more someone drives the more fuel they will use. Trying to track mileage via a plate is idiotic.
The other reason is to enrich government and its cronies.
Probably closer to the truth.
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I think they're trying to be pro-active, and tax on mileage, for when electric cars become predominant, and don't generate gasoline tax revenues.
Hell, they're trying to do this already due to the better economy that cars/trucks
Tracking mileage for taxation is idiotic (Score:2)
I think they're trying to be pro-active, and tax on mileage, for when electric cars become predominant, and don't generate gasoline tax revenues.
Taxing mileage is idiotic and needlessly complicated. You can accomplish raising the necessary revenue by taxing electricity in pretty much the same manner you tax gasoline today. Cross reference the registration with the electric bill if you need to know exactly whose car it is to bill properly. The increase in electric use will correspond nicely with the increased use of electric vehicles and you can adjust the rate to the amount needed to maintain the roads properly.
Hell, they're trying to do this already due to the better economy that cars/trucks are getting, that it has caused a decrease in tax revenues already.
Only because we have idiots in elec
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How do you tax electricity without increasing the cost of electricity used for normal household purposes: lighting, computers, A/C, appliances, etc.? You would have to require all charging be done through an additional meter. Even if there is another meter in the house, the electric vehicle could still be charged via a dryer outlet.
How do you tax electricity for those whose net usage is zero due to solar panels?
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You tax all electricity -- a kWh is a kWh and makes the same amount of CO2 (depending on source) regardless of where it is used. Give a tax credit for the poor below a certain income.
As far as having one's own solar system, the obvious solution is not to tax it -- that would encourage installation of solar systems.
If you want to tax mileage, tax tires and require annual inspections to check for safe tires. Tire wear correlates pretty well to miles traveled and vehicle weight.
Re: Tracking (Score:2)
Or, you could just look at the odometer which correlates perfectly with milage.
Billing EVs for road maintenance (Score:2)
How do you tax electricity without increasing the cost of electricity used for normal household purposes: lighting, computers, A/C, appliances, etc.?
Several answer to that. First off it doesn't matter if we increase the cost of electricity for other purposes - the cost of gasoline is priced into everything we do currently so it doesn't really change anything in that regard.
1) Most people are going to charge their cars at their homes. If they don't have an EV then they won't get billed for charging one.
2) You cross reference the EV car registration with the electric bill and charge accordingly. Require every EV to have a home meter responsible for the
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Not to seem callous but why would I pay (a lot) extra for the ability to display Amber alerts?
An Amber alert typically includes searching for a particular vehicle. So you wouldn't be displaying Amber alerts, the target of the Amber alert would be flashing or otherwise drawing attention to the vehicle.
This is unlikely to convince you to buy such a plate, especially at that high a price. It's aimed at selling that plate to the state government, which then mandates it on your car. Or possibly building the technology into the car at the factory, much like OnStar can turn off a car's engine when the p
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The negatives have thoroughly been covered in the forum so I will not bother
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I presume on private property the car enthusiasts can program them to say PSYWGN or whatever. The RoI on underglow isn't measured in dollars.
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Also, a benefit is... (Score:2)
How long until they are mandatory? (Score:2)
KISS (Score:3)
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Are they at least made in America?
Yes, and by prison labor. You don't want to take a job from a hard working American convict and give it to a eight year old Chinese kid, do you?
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It's extremely wasteful. None of these digital plates will make 10 years of life and just end up in landfills. You'd think California would have thought about the toxic e-waste these things are going to end up making.
There needs to be legislation to regulate such wasteful, throw away products. Digital plates should be made illegal at the federal level. Along with millions of other trinkets that corporations buy for giveaways (just as an example). They are all cheap throw away shit, consuming resources,
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Also, arn't the old plates made cheaply in prisons? Will the same type of cheap labor be used for the digital plates? Can see the messages now if so.
renew? (Score:2)
In Belgium you get your license plate once. You take them with you when you get a new car. When you do not need them, you bring em back i.e. drop them off at the post office.
It is just there, so they can check the database. Plenty are 20+ years old. No need to recharge the batteries.
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In Belgium you get your license plate once. You take them with you when you get a new car. When you do not need them, you bring em back i.e. drop them off at the post office.
In the US you keep the plate but have to renew the registration every year. Usually costs about $20-25, plus tack on another $20 for yearly required emissions. So, even at $50 a year for registration the basic plate would take 10 years before the purchase price is paid off. Now, what are the odds that an electronic plate will last 10 years without damage/needing to be replaced/etc?
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Not everywhere. In some places, the vehicle keeps the plate as it is transferred from owner to owner.
Well, I meant you aren't getting a new plate every year, you are just paying every year for the registration for the plate.
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In Belgium you get your license plate once. You take them with you when you get a new car. When you do not need them, you bring em back i.e. drop them off at the post office.
In the US you keep the plate but have to renew the registration every year. Usually costs about $20-25, plus tack on another $20 for yearly required emissions. So, even at $50 a year for registration the basic plate would take 10 years before the purchase price is paid off. Now, what are the odds that an electronic plate will last 10 years without damage/needing to be replaced/etc?
You also pay a $7/month subscription fee for the plate; plus I doubt the DMV is going to lower the registration costs. I really don't see any great value beyond perhaps more unique vanity tags and the ability for the state to us it to identify vehicles, such as changing or flashing the number to Expired, Stolen, Amber Alert, etc. and to collect some extra cash each month. Of course, no one would figure out how to access it and change the display to something more interesting.
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$20? Where the fuck do you live? California is several hundred dollars (goes down the older your car is), and hell even Illinois is $100 for a renewal.
GA. $20-25 for a standard tag plus the emissions charge. Specialty tags cost more. Does Cali add taxes every year?
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The plate (as in the hunk of metal with numbers on it) you keep for years.
Some states consider the the plate to identify you, so you take it with you to a new car. Others consider it an identifier for you and the car, so you get a new plate when you get a new car.
"Renewals" are renewing the vehicle's registration. That's annual, and is a mechanism to collect property taxes and fees. In most states it's also a mechanism to force you to have a safety and/or emissions inspection done on your car every year.
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Same in Canada, the plate is "yours" and whenever you change car, you transfer the plate
Has anyone thought about the impact (Score:2)
to the private prison slave labor currently making license plates? /s
no thanks, ill stick with the old metal plates (Score:2)
Can I run Linux on it? (Score:2)
No point in Europe... (Score:2)
The registration number on a car here in Europe rarely changes, certainly never is the vast majority of cases. The registration number belongs to the car, and stays with the car for its life.
One of the reasons the number might change is when a car is exported and thus re-registered in another country (e.g. in Ireland it's much cheaper to buy a used car in the UK and import and re-register it than to buy a lower spec used car here).
Another is vanity plates, which aren't available in all countries. I think