Pull-ups and Science
The science of Pull-ups
This is a compilation of results by scientific studies found by searching pubmed. For most part, I avoid describing the methods or weaknesses of the studies, focusing on the “Take Home” points for easy digestion. Feel free to ask for more details.
From this research, my main conclusion is that research focused on bodyweight fitness is lacking compared to weight exercises.
The basics (Ronai, 2014)
Pull-up is a multi-joint upper-body exercise (shoulder, scapulothoracic and elbow joints) that can improve an athlete’s shoulder girdle strength, stability, and ability to produce high forces during pulling activities.
Muscles involved: middle trapezius, lower trapezius, rhomboids, pectoralis minor, pectoralis major, posterior deltoid, infraspinatus, latissimus dorsi, teres major, subscapularis, biceps brachii, brachialis, brachioradialis, flexor carpi radialis, flexor carpi ulnaris, palmaris longus, flexor digitorum profundus, flexor digitorum superficialis, and flexor pollicis longus, external oblique, and erector spinae.
Technique
A comparison of electromyographical activity Snarr et al, 2017 between normal pull-up, suspension pull-up and towel pull-up only showed less activity of Mid-Trapezius on towel pull-ups with no differences on other muscle groups. They conclude that all variations are effective exercises for the targeted muscles.
Youdas et al, 2010 used Electromiography to compare muscular activity between pull-up,chin-up and the Perfect·PullupTM rotational device. Authors concluded that the pectoralis major and biceps brachii had significantly higher EMG activation during the chin-up than during the pull-up, whereas the lower trapezius was significantly more active during the pull-up. There was no increased muscular recruitment using the Perfect·Pullup^TM rotational device.
Velocity vs Endurance
Beckham et al, 2018 showed a correlation between velocity of first pull-up repetition and maximum repetitions. The authors suggest that determining the velocity of first pull-up could increase the efficiency and effectiveness of exercise testing batteries for military or police. [Thomas et al, 2018](https://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0167-9457(17)30776-5) showed similar results.
Comparison with Lat Pulldown
Halet et al, 2009 compared 1 RM of lat-pull with max reps of pull-ups and lat-pulls (at 80% of 1RM). There was a moderate correlation between lat-pull 1RM and number of pull-ups, but not between number of pull-ups and number of lat-pulls. They conclude that this low correlation between exercises indicate that they should not substitute one another.
Safety
Shoulder impingement is the trapping of rotator’s cuff tendons during shoulder movements. It can be caused by repeated movement, like overdoing with Pull-ups. A study Prinold et al, 2016 was performed to determine if pull-up technique differences could increase or decrease risk of impingement. The authors concluded that reverse technique (chin-ups) and wide technique have movement patterns that could indicate higher risk of injury.
Case reports of rhabdomyolysis exist associated as pull-ups. One example is presented by Kiberd et al, 2011 who report a case that followed a short duration high-intensity training that included 84 pull-ups, 84 overhead shoulder presses with 30-lb dumbbells.
References
[Thomas E, Bianco A, Raia T, Messina G, Tabacchi G, Bellafiore M, et al. Relationship between velocity and muscular endurance of the upper body. Human movement science. 2018;60:175-82.](https://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0167-9457(17)30776-5)
Kiberd M, Campbell S. Delayed-onset rhabdomyolysis after intense exercise. CMAJ. 2011;183(16):E1222.
I started with chin-ups, because it felt easier. And they talk about that:
Thus, the reverse pull up technique potentially increases sub-acromial impingement risk in the hanging and initiation phase, an important consideration, given that it is anecdotally easier and thus prescribed for weaker participants. Further work could analyse weight-assisted front pull-ups as a lower risk alternative.
haha...i do chin ups for precisely this reason. it's so much easier, i can do more, and so i feel "stronger."
in my more "sane" moments, i realize that it isn't about the number of reps, and i've certainly seen a lot of reports/articles claiming that the difference between muscle involvement in forward and reverse grip is negligible...just less biceps.
so, forward grip it is!
it's ok to mix grips during your workouts. in fact, it's probably better.
instead of, say, 4 sets of 8-12 normal pullups, do 1 set of 8 strict pullups, 2nd set of strict chin ups, 3rd set of strict pullups, 4th set of strict chin up. you're still targeting the same back muscles, but you're alternating different muscle groups in the arms. usually the limiting factor is the arms, so your back is likely not getting enough stimulation when you're unable to keep repping. so by alternating grips, you're able to rep more and thus give your back the attention it needs because lets not forget, the pullup is essentially a back workout.
I do aswell....I also throw in neutral grip and vary grip width
I've been doing pull ups for quite long time. When I started I only had in mind regular pull ups. I progressed enough in a month (went from 1 set of 4 pull ups, to 3 sets of 6 pull ups). However, I decided to train with different angles and pull up varieties. From that, I progressed way faster and started feeling stronger. So, I always recommend doing as many varieties as possible of pull ups for a optimal progress.
Yeah a lot of people have a similar mindset like that. People tend to think because the normal pull up is harder that they should only focus on that. But like you said you’ll see more improvement when you work different grips.
Authors concluded that the pectoralis major and biceps brachii had significantly higher EMG activation during the chin-up than during the pull-up, whereas the lower trapezius was significantly more active during the pull-up.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems to indicate they favor different muscle groups entirely so they're not as interchangeable as they'd seem.
These are the numbers:
Activation of the pectoralis major ranged from 44 ± 27% MVIC for the pull-up to 57 ± 36% MVIC for the chin-up
The biceps brachii produced very high EMG signals that varied from 78 ± 32% MVIC for the pull-up to 96 ± 34%MVIC for the chin-up.
The lower trapezius was activated early in the 3 pull-up/chin-up exercises at an average of 14.7% of the pull-up cycle and a magnitude of recruitment ranging from 45 ± 22% MVIC for the chin-up to 56 ± 21% MVIC for the pull-up.
These are significant, but I don't know if in practice it makes that big of a difference, meaning: will your biceps develop significantly more if you do chin-ups instead of pull-ups? Probably not...
I do the same added weight for the same reps on both. If you do both of them just as well(dead hang, slow negative) you shouldn't have one that is much stronger than the other(the study confirms this) . You're probably cheating more on the chin-up à.
Now one hand facing each way, that one is way harder. I can barely do a few good reps with only bw.
I've heard from numerous sources about the issues with wide-grip pullup, including my own issues with them (they feel like they will rip my arms out of my shoulders). This is the first I've heard about chinups (reverse as they call it), and not terribly surprised as to do the movement, your chest and other parts feel like they get in the way. So not surprised there could be some impingement issues.
While a very wide-grip might target the back well (tho regular pullups also do probably just as fine a job, along with safer back workouts), medical and physiological sources all seem to point out it puts your shoulders in a back position, making them very prone to injury. Like I still see ppl do pushups or bench presses with arms straight out from their bodies (perpendicular to the body). Sure, you can get away with it for a while, especially while young, but in the end, you'll likely end up with injury and probably surgery later. However, I'm no doctor, I just try to listen from many different medical sources.
That's weird to me that the more medial set on arm position results in less injuries on bench. Most of my injuries have always been when using a wider grip. Maybe I'm just an oddity.
I'm not 100% sure what you mean by this one. Are you talking about flat bench when you're talking about perpendicular to the body?
I'm talking about the angle of your upper arms to your body trunk. Doing pushups, bench press, whatever, your upper arms should be no greater than around 45 degrees or so from your body sides. Perpendicular would be where your upper arms are straight out from your shoulders, make a 'T' shape. The 45-degree rule is a general one, less is fine but if your arms are very close to your body, that will tend to focus the effort more on just your triceps and less on your chest. Arms perpendicular will work your chest well, but at the expense of your long term shoulder health. So you have to balance it, hence why around 45 degrees is suggested. There's tons of articles out there explaining the mechanics and physiology behind this issue.
Okay, I get it now. I was just imagining a different image than what you were talking about. I was looking at it from the side instead of the front so It was literally just a different perspective.
Thanks for this. Did you come across any studies that deal with the possible correlation between pull up/chin-up in alleviating back pain? In my case, chin-up seems to alleviate my back pain (mid back area), which subsides every time i do chin-ups regularly but will resume when i stop doing chin-ups.
Sounds like you're possibly benefiting from the decompression of your spine, or perhaps that painful area of your back is a bit hypermobile and the chip-up really helps you engage your core and other supporting muscles for stability, or perhaps a bit of both.
If your back also feels better when you lay on your back with your knees bent or propped up, it would favor the decompression hypothesis (unloading weight from the spine).
Thanks for the tips. Laying on my back with knees bent does feel better. Again, fwiw I mainly do chins (underhand grip) and rarely pull-up (overhand grip). I wonder if doing only dead hangs will also alleviate the back pain as it also decompresses the spine. Although in my case I feel that it’s the pulling motion that seems to help the most in keeping the back pain at bay.
No problem! I would be curious to know if horizontal pulling while seated or standing gave you pain relief since it uses so many of the same muscles as a pull up/chin up while your spine is still load bearing. And dead hangs do decompress the spine, but I'm personally able to relax and get more benefit for my back while pushing myself up on chair arms while seated and focusing on relaxing my lower body.
A lot of decompression stuff like that will mostly target the lumbar spine and have less of an effect on the thoracic spine, and your pain sounds like it could be around the thoracolumbar junction. I would suggest rolling and lying on a foam roller daily.
Like this: https://www.indianworkouts.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Upper-Back-Thoracic-Spine-Roll.jpg
and this: https://homegymr.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Foam-Roller-Thoracic-Spine-Matrix-Exercise.jpg (focus on keeping the low back in contact w/ roller during this stretch)
I'm just an internet person who can't see you and doesn't have your full history. If the pain persists, gets worse, or is just too annoying, you'd benefit from seeing a physical therapist. Most back pain is biomechanical in origin and can be identified and addressed quite quickly with a PT.
Doing chin ups simulate back traction which is a technique used in physiotherapy clinics to treat back problems like slipped discs. That's probably why your back pain goes away when you keep up a consistent pull-up regime but it's not a cure-all for any back problems.
If you have consistent issues with your back, go see a doc and he'll probably recommend an x-ray and maybe a MRI scan to boot. Meanwhile, maintaining a good posture and sitting habits (not slouching) are some steps you can take to prevent back pain.
Thanks I’ll probably do that soon. For the record, I mainly do chins (underhand grip palm facing me) and rarely do pull-up (overhand grip palm facing away). Not sure whether it makes any difference. I feel chins hitting the problematic area better fwiw.
Try hanging on the bar for as long as you can hold on. You'll be basically performing a traction session on yourself. Don't know whether chin or pullups are more effective at relieving back pain but you should definitely do what feels right for you.
The authors concluded that reverse technique (chin-ups) and wide technique have movement patterns that could indicate higher riskof injury.
Wouldn't have guessed that.
Regarding chin-ups, it appears the problem is the external rotation, and it's more noticeable in the hanging and starting phases.
For wide pull-ups, there's an interesting concern:
The wide pull-up may therefore be associated with an increased injury risk, a concern given the popularity of “Kipping” pull-ups (swinging and then performing a dynamic wide pull-up)
I don't ever come back down to "hang" after I come up on the first one - I stop short due to elbow and previous shoulder pain. I wonder if removing that "hanging" portion removes some of that risk. It's almost the equivalent of close grip curls on a barbbell where you can't straighten your arms in front of your on the bottom of the movement. Hmmm, more to think about.
It's possible... This is a single study, and it's not showing a higher number of lesions comparing a group that does chin-ups and a group that does pull-ups. It's just a theoretical hypothesis.
Personally, if I was doing a lot of volume, I would avoid chin-ups. But I don't think the evidence of only this paper is enough to ditch chin-ups or wide pull-ups.
I thought narrower grip induced internal rotation and possible impingment, odd. I've been doing wide for years under the belief it not only better recruited all of the involved muscles, but minimized shoulder injury risk
Any information on neutral grip (palms facing each other)? Is there likely to be a difference in muscle recruitment or is it a good middle ground between pull up and chin up?
Yes!
Other article: Electromyographic analysis of muscle activation during pull-up variations.
They compared pull-up, chin-up, rope pull-up and neutral grip. Mostly similar, however more activation of mid trapezius during eccentric phase on pull-up. The conclusion:
It appears all four pull-up grips will elicit similar strength adaptions when implemented in resistance training settings.
EDIT: changed link to free pdf
Free access to the pdf:
i don't know if it's nit picking but towel pullups (and probably rope pullups depending on the rope) build a lot more grip strength which these studies didn't measure. It never carried over to more reps on bar pullups for me but it definitely did for hangs or grippers.
I bought a cage thing off gumtree, all its good for is the occasional pull up. I started at almost one, I’m at almost four. Positive read, thanks.
They are bloody hard, I was proud till my brother told me I wasn't even doing pull ups, chin ups and pull ups are a different thing according to him
Isn't that according to everyone or is that not the case anymore?
Also that doesn't mean you shouldn't be proud...if you can now do something that you couldn't before that's progress and something to be proud of whether you're doing pull-ups or chinups
Agreed! Don't get hung up on perfect or comparing yourself to others. Just showing up and improving is more than most people are doing. Go out there and get it!
This is so cool. Now to decide if I want to buy the articles haha
buy the articles
As a scientist, please don't. The publishers have already been paid by me and my employer.
sci-hub.tw, /r/scholar or ResearchGate should have the article.
I have anecdotally noticed first rep velocity vs max reps correlation. However, I wonder if excessive velocity on early reps takes more or less energy than slower reps. The Russian guy who does 100 reps does them all with moderate velocity. In other words: are high velocity reps efficient or inefficient?
In my experience it's the average: If you go boom the first pull up - it takes more time to do your e.g. 5th. But if you equally, your total time is lower, resulting in less fatigue (time spent hanging on bar) which in my experience can give you more strength.
What exactly is the takeaway from the velocity studies? For training as opposed to testing that is.
In the conclusion of the paper, the authors focus almost only on testing. For example:
A practitioner may use the MCV of a single repetition as an indirect measure of progress in a population interested in improving maximum pull-up count.
It's known that there's a relation between velocity and maximal load. So, you can assess both your progression towards a heavier pull-up and towards more reps, only by measuring the velocity of first rep (how to do it? - honestly, I hope someone here has a brilliant idea to do it easily). It's a nice way to see progress, without going to failure on multiple reps or needing a whole lot of weight.
It's also an indicator that there's overlap between endurance and strength training, i.e. you'll increase max reps by increasing load. This probably becomes less true for a higher number of reps (the max number from the individuals in the study was 25 reps).
There's a free sports analysis software called kinovea that allows you to upload video of a movement and analyze components of the movement such as velocity, total distance, joint angles, etc.
I was just playing with this and found that VLC doesn't have an easy way to view frame number and the timecode was only to nearest second so I found this command for ffmpeg (free download for all platforms) to overlay the frame number over the video. Then I went frame by frame ("e" hotkey in VLC) and recorded the timestamp to where I initiated the pull to when I stopped at the top, subtracted the two and divided by my framerate (30 in most instances) and I came up with 1.9 seconds on the dot (it was a couple months ago and a couple sets deep) I'm interested to try this again and see where i'm at now that I've moved to weighted pullups.
ffmpeg -i input.MOV -vf "drawtext=fontfile=/windows/fonts/Arial.ttf: text=%{frame_num}: x=(w-tw)/2: y=h-(2*lh): fontcolor=black: box=1: boxcolor=white: boxborderw=5: fontsize=20" -y output.mov
Be sure to change the input and output files to match your situation.
There's some great stuff on pull ups written by Cody lefever (u/gzcl) He's a power lifter but I thought it was pertinent to this post. What he wrote is largely anecdotal (though he does reference some studies) but supports the great stuff you cited in this post. Lefever's post is also very practical, including some approaches to developing your pull-ups.
There's a part 2 as well: https://www.reddit.com/r/weightroom/comments/2ar2iy/why_you_should_be_doing_more_pull_ups_2/?utm_source=reddit-android
Awesome! And yeah, I wish there were more studies on bodyweight movements. A lot of this reflects my experiences with the pullup. I think the biggest takeaway is on velocity vs endurance.
Wow. Fantastic. It looks like there is a predictive correlation between single-rep (first-rep) velocity and endurance.
The studies seem aimed at instructors who have to assess large groups of people (e.g. recruits), in a limited amount of time, across a series of different drills. The instructor has one hour to assess 100 recruits across a battery of five drills. Each drill takes time, and each drill further fatigues the recruit. Instead of having a recruit perform each drill to failure, the recruit performs one repetition as quickly as possible, measured with an accelerometer. Each drill requires less time and less energy.
If you really are a beginner, be careful about negatives. They are very rough on your muscles, and you will have, at least, serious DOMS tomorrow.
Try one. If you fall down with little control, you are not ready for them.
Keep progressing through rows, getting more horizontal and do scapular pulls.
I’m not a complete noob. I was able to do chins a few years back when I lost a bit of weight. I’m not in the best shape now but not the worst either.
I didn’t take your comment that way also. I appreciate the advice. I wish I could say I could do it pretty quickly. It’s been a struggle for sure. I lack consistency
Are you suggesting pull-ups are more associated with rhabdomyolysis than other forms of exercise? I thought like marathons and stuff were the most common causes, where your muscles get extremely fatigued and you are dehydrated and whatnot.
I do 5 sets of 10 before a workout and and 5 sets of 10 after , do em almost everyday. On God, Pull-ups are the best and my favorite exercise
They conclude that this low correlation between exercises indicate that they should not substitute one another.
Anyone else find this surprising? Round these parts and r/fitness it's regularly touted that a strong weighted pullup with get you a strong lat pulldown but not the reverse. Does this conclusion contradict that?
Weighted pull-ups were not tested here. There's certainly some crossover for strenght gains from one exercise to the other. As this study was performed on competitive swimmers, who need a lot of pulling strenght, I think that's way the researchers conclude the athletes should do both.
So does that mean to perform a pull-up with the least amount of risk of injury(that was studied of course) one would do a pull-up with palms facing away, approximately shoulder width apart? Is that what you're saying these studies have concluded?
Only asking because I'm making these a big part of my routine and would hate to have this exercise become a potential source of injury.
Well, yes. Keep in mind it's just one study and it's a theoretical risk increase. But if the volume is high, I would do normal pull-ups to be safe.
I'm curious if anyone can chime in about close-grip pull-ups. I've noticed that when my fists are somewhere around 3 to 6 inches apart on the bar, I seem to recruit more muscles in my forearms. I like this feeling, but at the same time it puts more strain on my wrists to the point I get carpal-tunnel symptoms after repeated sets. Is there an alternate grip where I can feel that forearm burn, or am I better off sticking to standard pull/chin-ups?
Also, when they refer to wide pull-ups in the article, what exactly are they saying? Greater than shoulder width? I feel like my natural pull-up has my grip just outside my deltoids.
It's possible that towel pull-ups require more of your forearms.
Regarding wide pull-ups, in the image it looks like twice shoulder width.
Can you simplify it for a knuckle dragger plz. So, like should I wear a small backpack for weight? I can't do a single pull up, I'm practicing shoulder width grip and I mix it up with a negative pull up and a resistance band. I've been on it for 2 months I'm not making any progress!
This post from antranik helped me a lot to reach my first pull-up! I personally did rows, then negatives.
wow this is incredible
I've been experiencing that exact pain of impingement, is the only option to avoid those techniques or is there some rehab/prehab you can do?
I dont want to cut out pullups!
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Is the more risky chin-up that is described here the same movement as when you do them on rings? On rings, you start with a pronated grip (pull-up grip) and as you go up, that grip turns from a pronated grip to a supinated grip (chin-up grip). Could someone explain it to me for my specific case?
Thanks.
The authors say the problem with chin-ups is in deadhang and the beginning of ascending phase. So, on rings it should be safer, but this was not tested
Cool because on rings you deadhang in a pull-up position then transition to the chin-up right about at the middle of the movement.
It's a nice mix.
Muscles involved: middle trapezius, lower trapezius, rhomboids, pectoralis minor, pectoralis major, posterior deltoid, infraspinatus, latissimus dorsi, teres major, subscapularis, biceps brachii, brachialis, brachioradialis, flexor carpi radialis, flexor carpi ulnaris, palmaris longus, flexor digitorum profundus, flexor digitorum superficialis, and flexor pollicis longus, external oblique, and erector spinae.
Big lol at that bodybuilder mindset that makes people believe that pullups are a lat exercise and chinups are a biceps exercise.
I mean, pull ups effectively are a lat exercise despite working so many other muscles. For example it says they work the chest but I don't think anyone has gotten a big chest from doing pull ups.
I can do 21 pullups and i'm not in good shape. Is this because i do them fast?
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