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I'm back! Covering the FA suspension

By Roco, 5 months ago

Hey everybody, the suspension is over and I have my account back. Wanted to first say thank you all for your support~

I also wanted to go over what exactly happened so there are no assumptions or confusion.
To start though I want to say I hold no ill will over FA for their policy for banning certain content. That's their choice and decision and while I may not agree with it I understand why they do. But my argument bellow will cover more HOW they handled this situation.

So about a month and a half ago one of my images was reported by a user (not going to name him, but those that know, know) because it was deemed to break TOS due to their underage/cub clause.
So that's the basic run down. Let's dive into specifics. Hopefully talking about this subject can avoid getting me banned. This is something that needs to be discussed and not censored.

The image in question was a mass vore image that was cropped to exclude Asriel, a character who possibly hundreds if not thousands of years old but comes in two flavors of body type in the game: his younger form and his older form. This was not a shoddy or obvious censor; this was literally cutting the image in half so nothing is left of that character. Even I realized that the younger form might be questionable so I decided to just avoid it. Instead I showed off the top portion and changed the text to be more of a commentary on the content issue.

There were no remarks to cubs being used in the image other than "A character who may or may not be underage but due to his body type FA would rather not risk it" and the submission itself lacked any links or wordage saying where the full image may be.
For all intents and purposes it was a separate piece of work and art and just because a different image exists with content that breaks their TOS (that the user in question would have to know of what other account I used and posted to and then explain to FA that it's there)
Because of this, I was suspended.

It really makes me wonder how they handle anything with alternative artwork types. Because when you boil the whole issue down, that's why I got suspended. Because I made an alternative image that does NOT break their TOS. Here's the passage they quoted me for why I was suspended:

"You have been Temporarily Suspended for violating the following site rule:

Acceptable Upload Policy: Section 2.7 - Content featuring minors is prohibited when sexual activity is present. Minors cannot be in the presence of nudity, though exceptions may be made for non-sexual depictions of birth and breastfeeding. Minors are real or fictional humanoids with a childlike body or younger than 18 years old, and any adolescent animals.

[b]You have done this by posting cropped cock vore involving cubs.”

So there are some big issues with this statement. I'll get into how their policy itself lacks definition and also has a lot of "fudge room" that they don't enforce, later.
But to start, WHERE in that rule they quoted me does saying "Cropped image" is prohibited? Do you see that rule, because I don’t. As it stands I uploaded a piece of work that is separate and standalone to whatever else I made for that image. I could have 5 different alternative art pieces of that one image and they would be their own images. I could crop out a face of one of them and use it as an avatar.

But because one image exists that does "potentially" break their tos (cus again... character is an adult in canon but context doesn't matter... sometimes for FA. I'll get into how inconsistent they can be later) I get suspended.

What erks me even more is when I try to consult with them, they treat me with their robotic response. Taking days to respond ONCE and just saying "I have reviewed your account and determined that you were penalized appropriately. Therefore, no further action will be taken at this time."

They didn't even bother to talk to me as a person. To actually go over, review what I’ve said, and say why I may be right or wrong.

The point I want to make with this section of my journal is this: I was suspended due to an image that does NOT break their TOS because another image exists elsewhere (that I did not link or reference to where to find) and I'm peeved because their appeals person didn't even care to listen to or converse with me as a person. I have a fair argument. I wasn't trying to underhandedly show cub art on this site. I was trying to share the portions of the image that weren't TOS questionable and also poke fun at the whole cub issue.

Nowhere in their TOS says this is a problem so I felt my suspension was unjust.

I would have been fine if they said "Hey, we just don't want this, ya not in our TOS but still, remove please" I'd not be happy about it but I'd be agreeable. Cus, again, their site, ban whatever you want. Your rules and all that. But you're gonna censor me and suspend me just because I question these rules? Because that's what it feels like. It feels like I was either suspended because A) they don't like that I questioned their rules,, or B) they are very VERY anti cub content to the point they don't even care about people or context. It's just a shut door matter and because someone spoke up about it they threw the ban hammer down.

Now, it would be unfair to not mention that I have been a repeat offender in the past. For different reasons and because I believe context matters I'll explain.

I was around before FA banned cub content and had a few images which depicted a few underage characters. Even past the ban these images were YEARS old and I had forgotten about them, but someone noticed, reported, and they removed them and had a short suspension.

Second offense was when I posted an image with a kid character fully clothed and not involved in the action happening making a funny quib about a public sexual act happening in the image. I didn't realize that was against TOS (and it may actually not have been at the time, the clause they added saying they can't even be in an image of said stuff might have been added later) but regardless, it wasn't an attempt to push in cub content. It was an honest joke to have a mother and her son in an image of public indecency commenting on that fact.
But that got reported, I was promptly suspended and the image removed. Again no warning.

The last offense was when I posted a comic involving simba. I'll admit that one was my bad. I wasn't thinking at the time it was just a really good set of images I wanted to post and I figured just saying simba wasn't a cub in the image would be enough. The way I saw it were people have been posting images of younger body type characters all the time and just saying they are adults (smaller animal body types or pokemon etc) so I didn't think it was an issue. I was wrong. Reported, removed, suspended without warning.

Then this offense, now fully in understanding about these issues, I make an image using an adult in a young body and realize that probably is too much for FA. Make an alternative image that pokes dialogue critique about the issue but does not showcase any of the questionable content, get reported, get suspended without warning, content removed.

My issue with this whole issue is FA does not try to work with you and doesn't seem to care about context. It’s suspended first, let them ask questions later, and then probably ignore their plea anyhow.

So that's basically the whole thing, that's what happened this go around.

TL;DR

I post an image that falls in line with their TOS and pokes fun that I can't show the whole image because it's questionable for FA. I don't link or make reference to where said image could be. The image gets reported by a person anyhow (someone who's been going around doing it a lot I've been told) and FA removes it and suspends me without warning, siting their cub rule and then saying because I used a cropped image that I was suspended (even though the image uploaded is a derivative work and is its own image and in no way is having a cropped image in their TOS) I'm pissed because they didn't want to discuss this topic or talk to me at all because I felt I did not break any rules.

Now this section will cover what I think about censorship of cub and of questionable or extreme material in general and how poorly FA handles this.

First off, FA can ban whatever content they want. It's their site, their rules. I may not agree with it but I certainly understand why. It's a legal grey area they'd rather not risk.

But the issue I have with FA on this topic is they are also VERY grey area on what they allow and don't allow which has basically caused me to trip over these invisible little caltrop of issues.

Like okay, you don't want underage cubs or body types that can be seen as such.
Yet you allow things like Finnick porn to pass or any character that is SUPER well known to have a small body type but be an adult.

Then there's the whole issue of Pokemon. Most of the species being very cute and young looking with small body types but you let it pass because "That's just their species and they could be adults just in those body types". Let's not get into as well the "oh I'm totally 18" even though they are probably more like 16 (or 17) issue that having a "age of consent" limit brings. That's a whole grey area issue in its own right.

You see the inconsistency? And I understand why, they start banning things like pokemon and they'll loose like, half the site. But my issue is because their TOS is so flimsy on this issue and they are so inconsistent, someone like me gets shafted because they essentially just have an "implied" TOS that I'm not aware of.

So, what do I think about the whole cub ban thing? I think its nonsense but I understand they are a business trying to protect themselves. But in the process they are hurting their users.

As for the morality of it all, my belief is such:

"No illustrative or fantasy art (with the exception of art purposefully made to target and to cause harm, hate, or propaganda) should be illegal. All such work, regardless of their morality or content should be allowed to exist."

Now everything has its own place of course. No one is gonna post furry porn over on DA, they don't want it there. But for sites that allow adult content, that's what a black list is for.

So it's not just the fact it's Cub. That's just one facet most people tend to erect an immediate barrier to and call fowl. It's the easiest thing to try and squash away due to our inherent moralities.

But, I argue, that fantasy and our imagination is a place where all forms of thought can be allowed and art is an expression of that.
When we venture into the world of fantasy we leave at the door our moralities, ethics, expectations, and we open ourselves to whatever experience we can imagine. When we return we leave behind whatever mental space we created to then be back in the real world with our real ethics and morality.

What all this fancy wordplay is getting at is this:
Fantasy is separate from reality. A rational and true person will be able to keep those things separate when appropriate. Ask any snuff fetishist, vore fetishist, or any type of person who enjoys porn involving pain or domination or some form of force, do they get off to the idea in real life? You'll probably find most are quite the opposite. Who they are in fantasy is NOT who they are in real life. I can't stand the site of death or pain. Heck, it's a joke between my friends that I get squeemish with any food with the face still there (whole fish, crab, roasted pig etc).

Let's take the idea to say, a shooter game. Or any game with heavy violence. These people that play these games, most of the time aren't violent people and in that moment when they play they are willingly allowing themselves to go into a headspace where mowing down hundreds of people with a shotgun is perfectly okay and exciting.

It's not because they have some deep dark inner desire to do those actions, it's because they are willing allowing themselves to enter a headspace and enjoy the experience knowing they can come back from it unchanged by it.

Some choose to not allow this for some subjects, and that's fine. I know plenty of people who don't want to play violent games because they just don't feel comfortable getting into that headspace where they can just be okay with it.

But what I want to bring up here is that violent media does not create violent people. There will be those who use it as a way to sate their desires, for sure. But a sane person will be able to know what is morally or ethically wrong and when indulging in it in fantasy, not allow them to be changed by it.

That's why even the worry of "if you allow this art to exist it will desensitize the topic" can't possibly happen. The idea of sexually assaulting a child is still very VERY wrong in our social and moral views. Unless our whole society changes on that viewpoint the art itself is not going to change what people actually believe and their morals on that subject.

People like various shit for various reasons and you can get into the nitty griddy all you want for why a person might like fetish A, or dislike fetish B. But what it comes down to is fantasy is a headspace. It's a place you go when you want to experience something you can't do at the time in real life. You can choose to leave your morals and ethics at the door and explore a whole new range of ethics and morals. Sometimes this can be to experience what another person's life might be like, fill their shoes. Sometimes this might be for pure indulgence, to enjoy a rule free environment and set our Id free (the supposed part of our psyche that does whatever benefits the self and screw anything else, usually tempered by the Super Ego).

But what it all comes down to is fantasy is just that, fantasy. And if you think art of said fantasy shouldn't exist because of your morals or ethics, I'd argue it's you who needs to leave your moral and ethics at the door.
Because fantasy is a safe place for anything. Art is an expression of that fantasy. It causes no harm and allows creative minds to express whatever their imagination lets them. You may not agree with it, that's fine. Hell, sometimes artist make things they aren't in full agreement or liking either, but they want to make it anyways to "get it out of their head". That's totally understandable! You don't have to be okay with or wanting to let go of some of your ethics or morals when you enjoy fantasy. But, some of us are. And we're not bad people, we don't want to kill, or hurt, or harm others just because we do so in fantasy.

I am Aaron, my identity of who I am in real life does not change because Roco wants to eat a whole city block and digest them into fat. My fantasies do not determine my ethics or morals. My ethics and morals do not always determine my fantasies.

So, the TL;DR for this -
Let people enjoy whatever fucked up fantasies they want. So long as they aren't hurting anyone it's fine. People who enjoy the more extreme fantasies leave their true selves at the door and don't take what they believe in fantasy back with them.

I just like small body types with giant fucking dicks eating people and melting them into cum. I'm not a cock gobbling person eater in real life nor even if I could would I do so... to harm people. If I could safely I still might >///>;;

but you get the point, CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT

Fantasy can be a context REMOVED from reality. Leave that fucking shit at the door people.

62 comments

User replies

#link Posted: 5 months ago

Oh wow that's a lotta dumb. I mean that's like saying that the Theatrical release of Batman V Superman should have an R-Rating because there exists a version of the film that has an R-Rating.

#link Posted: 5 months ago

Ayuuuup.

Or like, some one draws a clothed version of something. Then makes an alternative image with no clothes. You shouldn't be judging an art piece's legality on a site just because there are derivatives
elsewhere.

#link Posted: 5 months ago

I was wondering why you had been so quite for so long! I'm glad to see you're back I'm sorry you've had to de with that.

#link Posted: 5 months ago

thanks~ happy to be back. At least to be able to communicate with a lot of my viewers.

#link Posted: 5 months ago

I've reported images of original Gwen Tennison (from Ben 10) drawn a bit bustier and been told 'it's okay, cause they said she's 18' when clearly the design is fully the 11 year old version, it's very
hypocritical on what they do/do not view as cub/child.

I'm sorry but I see original design Gwen, it doesn't matter what the artist says the age is, it's pretty clear that's not the bloody case.

Mind you, I don't care about cub, but anything with HUMAN like characters that appear under age is a nono imo

#link Posted: 5 months ago

I've done the same thing (most likely same image, too), and was basically told something along the line of "this character is depicted over the age of 18 in this context" when it looks EXACTLY like
the child version of Gwen from the Ben 10 franchise. I even provided reference links for the moderators. If they keep going like this, eventually, there won't be a crowd hanging around FA. May take
years for that to happen, but it may happen eventually as popular artists migrate away from Furaffinity and to other furry art sites that exist.

#link Posted: 5 months ago

it's honestly really bad, like I saw a pokemorph new version of Ash Ketchum right after my post in here that was clearly sexualized and ash is a fuckin' 10 year old, FA really needs to get their shit
together on things, talking about how absurd they are being shouldn't be a 'ban worthy' thing, but posting actual porn of things is.

The big problem is they aren't looking at context, at all, and are basically playing favorites again

#link Posted: 5 months ago

That's how FA has always been from what I've seen time and time again from a distance. And with characters depicted as Pokemon, I'll give the mods this; All pokemon have unclear ages, and could have
any evolution, no matter how child or adult looking the character is, while still being full adults. In that situation, it depends on the context of the image. If it's actually 10-year-old ash turned
Pokemon, then definitely. But if that is left unstated, then that's a perfectly reasonable gray area where I wouldn't scream if the mods decide to either take it down or leave it be. But without the
mods actually taking a look at what is being reported, there is no way for them to know for certain if it is a clear cut case of underaged adult content or not.

As for FA, I think the only way they will listen is if someone forces them to listen with a lawsuit for violation of their own terms of service... which will never happen. And if that does happen,
then FA is pretty much already dead.

#link Posted: 5 months ago

You were one of the many targets of the reporter. I saw at least 3 other accounts suspended with 2 unbanned as of now (because the claims were false even though that should have been professionally
looked at to begin with¯\_(ツ)_/¯).Judging by the things I've seen on twitter, aka tumblr 2.0 it's not going to end soon. But the interesting part is that a very well known artist here on FA has a cub
picture with over 1k faves yet no admin bats an eye. According to twitter multiple people reported it months ago. Ironically you commented on the pic addressing the favoritism :v

#link Posted: 5 months ago

I guarantee if zaush or blotch or any famous artist posts something questionable to FA policy they'd get a wrist bap at worst but probably ignored.
I love zaush's work but he skirts the line all the time with "Barely 18" characters and characters who are "Just small and short for their type". Mind you I think that's okay but it does show
favoritism to some degree. Or at least an unwillingness to loose those they deem might negatively affect their user base.

If they ban me it's certainly not gonna loose them much usage. You suspend or ban blotch or zaush, jeezus will there be a shit storm and so much issues.

#link Posted: 5 months ago

Yep, that happens. Youtube does it with logan paul, twitch does it with tiddies streamer,ect. It's not fair and it's nothing we can do unless a half the site speak out just like they did with the
whole mlp banner incident, lol. they took it down fast!

#link Posted: 5 months ago

out of curiosity what image do you speak of? I do not remember X3

#link Posted: 5 months ago

I'll note it to ya, Don't want to get in trouble :v

#link Posted: 5 months ago

Glad to see you back! Hopefully this journal doesn't get yo uin trouble now ^^;

#link Posted: 5 months ago

So Amen to that. And amen to the one who try to ban GTA because it was too violent, and was "why there was shooting".

If an human is doing a shooting to mimic what he saw in a game, then he cannot see between ficton, and reality, and as Such, should be help about it with.

I do admit this is a whole blur theme, and cannot really be joke at. But where i live, this is very, very badly view, to ban a game for exemple, just because "it might make people violent" Or
something, HECK! know what happen when you ban a game? They'll Do everything, because Kids Love to watch movie that they're not allow to and play game they're not allow to, Like call of duty being
a big exemple, If anyone get what i mean. We're living in a world that constently change, But honestly, i won't want a world... where if you say anything, it will be use againt's you. a World
where we cannot make any joke, a world where you have to be like everyone else, or you'll be send into an hospital till you're like everyone else. That everyone will judge you if you're not perfectly
a copy of them. If you're judging badly someone on their like or how they look... then honestly you're not better... As Roco say, everyone have their own likes, and should be respected, as Long as
they're not bringing it onto you and getting it into reality (well... ALMOST all of them, let's not get crazy too >.>)

Be Unique everyone. Be Free.

My point of View might get Used againt's me too. But i wanted to put my Little word into it.

#link Posted: 5 months ago

Oh roco <w> always put through the wringer...

Don't let em keep you down. ;w;

#link Posted: 5 months ago

gotta keep goin'~

#link Posted: 5 months ago

This whole thing is an issue with an ideology that I particularly hate. "Perception is reality." Never has a single phrase ever made my blood boil so quickly than the day I learned what it meant.
And of course, your unjust suspension is further proof of how stupid, backwards, and ultimately harmful it is to an artistic community.

"Universal law is for lackeys. Context is for kings."
Those who understand the value of context, and temper it with logic and morality, are always greater than those who don't. And the idea of people imagining that CP "desensitizes the issue" or makes
you "want to do it in real life" is just the most ridiculous thing ever. If they accuse us for not having a solid grip on reality, if they really think the line between reality and fantasy is so
easily crossed, then it's THEY who have no solid grip on reality. It's they who accuse that indeed have no idea how fantasy and reality work, since if they did, they'd realize how difficult, if not
outwardly impossible such a feat would be.

I can only hope that in the future, at least to help alleviate this frustration, they employ people who actually have a brain in their skulls to review these cases. You really shouldn't be punished
for a piece of artwork that's not displayed on the site.

#link Posted: 5 months ago

Ya, it's all bullshit from a fundamental level. The belief that all "fantasy" art (not like, real life portrayals cus that could get real messy real quick) should be free and legal because the art
itself is not harmful. Fucked up in some perceptions sure, but it all comes down to being able to separate fantasy from reality. When we want to indulge in our fantasies we put ourselves in a mindset,
separate from our real selves, that allows us to alter our moralities and enjoy whatever scenario we can imagine. The caveat is when we return to the "real world" from our fantasies we don't take with
us the moralities and beliefs that may conflict with our real life moralities. Killing tends to be a pretty universal no no in the real world. So a sane person should be able to come back from that
fantasy without the moralities shifting or being "desensitized" to it because they realize when they experience in their head is not real.

But, the issue that kind of shoves that one to the side is FA has a policy and who cares about the bullshit underlying problem right? But ya, shoving the underlying problem aside and just looking at
how FA handles their policies they have some work to do. I can understand their situation. Underfunded, understaffed, got other things in their lives besides this site. But while I can feel a small
amount of pity for them that doesn't change how me and others are affected by their poor services. If they don't care enough to give each case its fare review then there is a problem.

But it also comes down to they are people and some of them might have the same mental road blocks as others in that you mention a trigger word like "cub" and the walls erect without a single second of
context to consider. That's why it's hard to push aside the underlying problem mentioned before from FA's policy issues. It's hard to accurately review and police a policy that fundamentally is very
grey area and is hard to control due to so much ambiguity. Ambiguity and an issue that wouldn't need to be there if the underlying problem was resolved and more people realized that fantasy.

Also, ya, fuck it was a cropped image D: how is that bad? Or suspendable?

#link Posted: 5 months ago

That seems really stupid. But something else I've noticed it that it's also down to who you are in the furry world ie what you bring to the site. I get the feeling the popufurs of FA would be politely
told in private to remove the art whereas others are just banned or suspended.

Also that someone should have looked at this and realised out inanely stupid your ban was. Not only because of the content itself but what you said about something being in your gallery from years
back that the rules changed around. If you posted something 5 years before a rule change how can you be expected to remember, especially if you have hundreds of submissions. That in itself is dumb but
that's not the first time I've heard of a person being suspended due to historical content.

#link Posted: 5 months ago

A big issue is the case reviewers either don't put in the effort to try and take context into the equation, or they erect walls as soon as a trigger word is apart of it. Mention cub as part of the
offense and there's not much else they feel they need to think about.

And ya, popularity has a huge thing to do with it. It's a bit scummy from a morality aspect, wanna treat everyone fairly right? But if they started suspending their popular artists the site would die
even faster.

#link Posted: 5 months ago

I completely agree with you. Everyone should be free to draw/write/ect whatever they want, words on a book or a picture hasn't hurt someone by themselves yet, but you know... feelings and all, those
are hurts. And this is quite going on and get to be a huge problem in those last years, feelings above everything, and over expression speech and other such things as well. Peoples are just mobbing on
everything a bit outside of the "norm" now, and it is sad.
I hope that trend will soon die down, but eh... For now, glad to see you are thinking about the same about freedom of art. I believe Japaneses are very very "free" when it comes to art and fetishes in
those, but they don't seems to be bad for that.

#link Posted: 5 months ago

It's all about that mental mind space and realizing that when you dive into fantasy it's not real or reflective of your real self. It's amazing what the human brain can do. We can empathize and
imagine scenarios and moralities completely separate from our own and not let it become us. Dem mirror neurons are dope.

#link Posted: 5 months ago

I missed you so much Roco! I’m so glad your back. ^^ College has been putting me through a lot of hell with completing modeling assignments within a week instead of two to three
weeks. I always enjoy your zootopia comic when coming back home after a week of hard work and it infuriates me when artists like you get banned for the smallest of reasons or mistakes like what you
explained. Speaking of that, are you going to post the last pages and the bonus one for your Zootopia comic of Finnick and Nick very soon by this weekend or the next week finally? I would
assume you can post them all immediately because you been suspended for over more than two months and have them already completed by now. I’ve been waiting for so long and am so eager to see the
digestion ending continue and see what happens next after Finnick digests Nick. I’m too excited to see the conclusion finally after so long! And I’m curious about that Pokémon comic you said you will
post sometime soon. I hope everything goes better for you from here on out. Be careful of what you post with your stuff. Never make it public but only for registered adult members to view. Stay
awesome Roco, and I hope your doing okay with how your living now. Hope you get enough money from your Patreon to pay the bills and help support you with your artwork passion. Hope you post the next
comic pages soon now since it’s been so long. Love ya pal! ^.^

#link Posted: 5 months ago

I'm not in the mood to sit here and write an opinion piece, so I'll just say I'm glad you're actually back because we were all starting to think it was permanent and that was irritating as shit to
watch happen.

#link Posted: 5 months ago

Awe, well I'm happy to have your support bunneh~

#link Posted: 5 months ago

Just...be careful, man. Everything runs on gut reactions these days, and you're one suspension away from a permaban. If you're okay taking that risk to bring out these issues, good on you, but it
takes almost nothing for someone to freak out and report anything even slightly questionable and for the admins to appease the complainer regardless of what the terms of service actually say.

Funny. I was told you'd actually linked to the offending image a month and a half ago. The fact that you did not makes this even more of an unjustified witch-hunt.

You might get a chuckle out of this, but the one who reported you apparently thinks I'm in some sort of pedo/friend ring because I dared to say that hurting real people in defense of fictional
characters is never morally justified. When was the last time we had a conversation? Anthrocon 2013 or something? XD

#link Posted: 5 months ago

This is one of the things I'm highlighting: You can try as hard as you like not to break the rules, sooner or later you'll still do it inevitably. FA has such bizarre rules that are so interpretable,
it's a lottery how long you can stay on the site. Next to Youtube, Furaffinity must be the strictest site on this internet.

If anything is truly revolting here, is that the administration (or users reporting to them) are hunting you across the internet to see what you do on other websites and punish you here for it.
Seriously: Is FA an art site, or is a religion? People are wrong if they think we're going to be afraid to make a drawing on Inkbunny or share it on Twitter because my morality breaches the rules of
another website: Site rules affect the site in cause... bringing up what you do on other sites (eg: alternate versions of an image) goes far beyond a site's personal AUP or TOS.

#link Posted: 5 months ago

FA is not strict. It's just arbitrary and the admins are unprofessional. They're also under constant attack and have constant whining to deal with, so they're very defensive about everything.
It's just not run by people who are used to dealing with millions of customers, and they've never learned to adjust.

#link Posted: 5 months ago

Eh, honestly if I get perma banned it kinda just puts me as a marter for my beliefs anyhow. I'm not actively trying to mind you. But if it did happen life would go on. I'd find another place to set
up. Would require more advertisement and work but it's doable I think.

#link Posted: 5 months ago

I'm concerned that when you go down, so will Swallowtail, since that account was suspended while you were. The company's been inactive lately, but I still think it's a great idea in theory. This is
about more than just you, and I'm not sure making a very small statement is worth bringing down yours and Stank's business.
If it were just your own account, there'd be less of an issue since it's just you and you can do what you want with your own stuff, but Swallowtail involves a lot of other people and is jointly owned,
so you're putting that at risk as well.

Just my two cents, I guess.

#link Posted: 5 months ago

you make a fair point.

the swallowtail account only got suspended cus I didn't realize they have a rule about using other accounts while one of your accounts is suspended and they track your ip to make sure apparently..
That was my bad for not realizing that was a rule. So, in theory if I got banned it would mean I'd have to have stank take over fully with taking care of the FA account. But, your point still stands,
best if maybe to avoid that all together. Like I said, I'm not actively trying to get suspended or banned and this last issue was certainly an earnest case of "didn't think I'd get banned for a
picture that follows their TOS".

Sure, pokes fun at their TOS, but that's not against their TOS. But I guess lesson learned. FA wants to censor aggressively even commentary on the matter so I guess I'll have to be censored from even
talking about it. At least in picture form. If they don't even allow an adult discussion about it in their journals.... I don't even know.

#link Posted: 5 months ago

Ah, I see! So it wasn't just auto-suspended. That's good to know.

But yeah. FA's admins are petty and vindictive. Part of it is unprofessionalism and part of it is that they're under a lot of constant stress, not knowing what to do with their enormous userbase, so a
lot of their decisions are based on kneejerk reactions to preserve their authority or image. Probably best not to risk their capriciousness unless you've got a damn good reason.

Don't know if you remember him, but

alexreynard got "suspended" for like a decade because he was vocally against practices the administration had done and wouldn't shut up about it. So yeah.
Gotta be certain it's worth your account and the stuff associated with it. If there were a viable alternative to FA, it wouldn't be nearly as big an issue, but people just don't migrate unless forced
to.

#link Posted: 5 months ago

welcome back rudderbutt

#link Posted: 5 months ago

glad to be back rubberbutt!

#link Posted: 5 months ago

I'm ashamed to be part of a world where we still have to witness this sort of thing at this point in time. Who in the name of God cares what age a fictional character in a drawing is?! Furaffinity
should realize they have a serious thought police problem that's putting us all in a ridiculous situation, and remove this stupid ban on cub art already. Of course they won't, because some users
obsessed with imposing their ideology on everyone else aren't okay with dangerous things like artistic freedom: They delude themselves into thinking that because they were sexually abused as kids
(which is horrible and I'm sorry that such a thing happens) they have a free pass to distort logic and do whatever they want without being questioned.

The shocking thing is that you didn't even post that sort of thing on the site. We could say fine, FA wants to insist on enforcing a crazy art ban so just respect the rules and don't post cub porn
here... but you posted a cropped image which is a different piece of work that didn't even contain that! They are endlessly coming up with ways to find you guilty based on correlations they want to
make, some involving entirely different sites across the internet. You often can't follow the site rules even if you wish to, because the ones enforcing them inflate them so far beyond the realm of
reason you sometimes can't imagine that something may be a problem. And if you don't, you are obviously suspended first and told what you did wrong later, they give you little warning and few chances
to learn.

I have no doubt that even after what happened to you and Shyguy nothing will change. The site admins might at most reword those clauses and claim they are now clearer, without fixing the actual
situation artists are now facing. Don't worry though: The decentralized internet is coming, and it won't be long until a new furry art site pops up on it... you can be sure this bullshit and more will
never be allowed on the truly open internet.

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#link Posted: 5 months ago

here's my story, it's pretty similar http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/8809405/

#link Posted: 5 months ago

ouch, ya. I'm upset at the whole thing but at the same time i'm happy to know I'm not an isolated case if you get what I mean.

#link Posted: 5 months ago

we've (my boyfriend and I, who was suspended over the same non-cub image) sent them trouble tickets and emails to the appeals "department" weeks ago with still no responses... it doesn't look like any
of this will be going anywhere- it really looks like they just dropped everything having to do with our cases once I started showing hard evidence (as shown in my journal) that we broke no rules

#link Posted: 5 months ago

it's either they don't want to admit a mistake or they are just THAT hard lined that they just don't care to consider context or the like.

#link Posted: 5 months ago

Glad to see you back!

To briefly go over my thoughts, the whole issue is kinda fucked up. FA has quite a few areas where their rules aren't well-defined and are left to a "case by case" deal with admins, and that's just
asking for trouble.

I remember the pre-cub-ban days myself and how divisive it was with one side understandably pissed and the other cheering, also understandable even if I don't agree. FA was in a hard spot. Back then
they where majorly supported by donations and grew to the point that it was no longer paying the bills and they needed ads, and the advertisers where like "we don't want to advertise on a site that
allows cubs!" Neer was in a bad spot, and if I recall correctly, didn't want to censor anything, but unfortunately money won out. I didn't like it, but I understand it was that or let FA die.

I don't like how cub/shota/loli art is vilified by some, but I understand why, the real thing is horrible for good reason, but when you say that fiction is just as bad, you're on a slippery slope.
Like, no one bats an eye at fictional depictions of violence; violent movies, games, TV shows are abundant, and aside from a few people who shout "won't somebody think of the children?" The rest are
like "it's not real, it's just a show!" Like you, I say "if it's fiction, if it's not meant to attack anyone, than anything is fair game. Why should a work of fiction be criminalized?"

#link Posted: 5 months ago

it's all about that mental mindspace and realizing fantasy is not the same as reality. You can indulge in fantasy and not have it affect who you are in reality. Confusing the two is a huge mistake and
assuming things about people because of their fantasies is equally bad.

#link Posted: 5 months ago

I'm glad to see it wasn't actually permanent and you were able to return

#link Posted: 5 months ago

All of that craziness aside, i'm glad to see you back man. I hope your experience here isn't any more rocky than it has to be moving forward!

#link Posted: 5 months ago

heh, ya, here's to hoping x3

#link Posted: 5 months ago

I have myself been fucked over by FA's rules so I know that feeling but I do also think that considering the image in question you shouldn't be surprised that you were suspended as the text you used
in it was a bit.. provocative...
I know what I say adds little to the actual discussion but I feel like this is a loop that doesn't go anywhere, it feels like every other week if you take a glance at your profile you'll see that you
are suspended.
It feels like after a while you'd grow sick of it, and just use a dropbox or Inkbunny to hold any artwork containing minors or content that Furaffinity won't allow and just get on with your life.

What do you have to gain from going on about all of this stuff rather than burrying the hatchet just going on with your life really? No one asked me to keep my post-vore scat stuff on Eka's
portal I did that to be curtious and save myself the bother of crybabies complaining on my profile and allow people who just want to see regular vore and smutt to do so without getting to see images
that I know only a niche audience enjoys anyway. You aren't alone in being an artist who can't post all their art on FA due to their rules, so chances are most people who like your cub stuff already
have a Inkbunny anyway. Sure It'll be a little bit more work to manage 2 pages instead of one but if it means you won't get suspended or write an essay journal explaining your case it feels well worth
it tbh.

#link Posted: 5 months ago

Sorry to hear you've been fucked around by the rules to, but I want to start to say I've certainly not been suspended every other week. The offenses in the past have happened years apart from each
other.

the issue isn't me complaining about not being able to post stuff on FA.
As I stated before It's their rules, whatever. It's the fact that I have to stumble over rules they don't even have clearly defined.

You say the text I used was "provoking" them, I say it was social commentary. I wasn't trying to get them to suspend me or "asking for it" I was trying to put forth the idea that "extreme content
makes person want to do it in real life" is a bullshit idea so I made sarcastic witty commentary on an image I wanted to share that did NOT break their TOS.

I was surprised because I didn't think an image not breaking their TOS would be an issue because... who would think "oh this image exists elsewhere DOES break our TOS" would get you suspended?

I'm sick of FA in the sense that they don't handle the whole process very well for flagged images. It's suspend first, ask questions later, maybe respond. They also rarely seem to take context into
the equation.
I also don't like FA cus of its really far behind UI and systems but that's another matter.

If I could leave FA I would. I probably will at some point. But I can't at the moment because unfortunately too many people aren't willing to cut ties with it and go to better gallery sites.

But what it all comes down to, why even bother? Because the idea that art should be a free form of expression is something I believe deep in my being. This isn't about "he just wants cub stuff" fuck,
that stuff isn't even near my favorite interests, just so happens I like small body types and big dicks attached and younger critters tend to have small body types. It's about the principle, the idea
that people want to regulate thoughts and ideas because their morals say that shit shouldn't exist. I don't agree with that and while I'm not going to go on a crusade to try and change a website's
policy, if I find the time and can take a minute to restructure the dialogue of an image to put some social commentary on the matter and not break TOS for it, I will.

Why bother, why not get on with my life? Because I'm an artist, art is part of my life. If i don't speak up about it, if I go into that little corner where they want to shove me into, then I'll just
fall into obscurity. No message gets heard if you're off in your own bubble. Just saying these things on sites where everyone is already in agreement gets nothing accomplished. I WANT people who may
not be fully understanding of the concept or idea or who are against it to see the work, to possibly challenge their ideas, and hopefully, maybe, change them. Yes, this "stirs" the pot. But I'm not
trying to break rules to do so, not intentionally anyhow. I certainly don't feel it's a waste of time either.

So it can be cub, it can be vore, it can be anything really. Art should be free to exist, imagination cultivated to flourish. Certainly some places will want to cater their interest to only specific
things but FA was a "All furry art" welcome sort of gallery and only recent years changed to be exclusive to only certain kinds (also there are tools now to cater content to people so you can black
list things you don't want to see). If people don't in some way push back against these issues then it can eventually envelope other aspects too.

It's cub today, who says the whole of vore won't be banned tomorrow?

#link Posted: 5 months ago

About the sarcastic commentary
Yes, it did not break TOS. However, FA Isn't google, this isn't a huge company run by thousands of people. Its a small group of people, a group of people who are small enough that they can see you as
a witty cunt and might not be as co-operational with you incase you get into trouble or need a problem resolved yourself. You have to keep that in mind, its something alot of people forget that with
sites with smaller staff they can be dicks if they so please.
I recall when I got suspended for a upload on DeviantArt that they removed a journal I posted as response to people asking why I wasn't posting my stuff as frequently on DA as elsewhere. Where I broke
down and criticised the site. It didn't break TOS but after posting it I got a suspension for my uploads breaking TOS but they removed that journal as well. They might have seen the journal and just
out of spite decided to strike my stuff, otherwise they might not have given a damn as there are plenty of content of the same nature still up on peoples' DA.

About the question regarding 'suspend first ask later'
I hated that too with my suspension. But I think there is a very unpopular opinion that is the cause of this.
The Furry community is FULL of idiots Whether they might actually just be minors or people with severe problems. And rather than bicker back and fourth with someone like that who might just waste time
by lying, making up excuses or just acting oblivious they deliver swift 'justice' if you could call it that. At the end of the day the admins are just people, and I doubt that being a FA admin
is a full-time paying job. Its a partime job. So imagine having to spend your free time listening to excuses, trying to decipher whats true or not based on just lines of text. No facial expression or
anything to go on. I'm sure then that our issue would be people NOT getting punished for breaking rules because they talk their way out of it.

And you don't need to speak up about this sort of stuff. You have over 5000 followers and I highly doubt all of them are people who came for smut involving cubs. There just ain't that huge of a
follwing for that stuff on Furaffinity (Maybe on Inkbunny, idunno) are you saying the only art you have, the only stuff you draw is cub? You draw nothing else? You say they push you into a corner but
I see it more as you standing in a 4 room door and they told you one of the doors is off limits and won't allow you to go there. You can still access the whole room you're in and the other 3 rooms,
they only restricted one of them.
You have to keep in mind that the rules aren't there to sabotage for people, they have been put there because people are upset about the subjectmatter and in a democratic vote the people against
explicit art with cubs outmatch the people for it. They weigh in favor or the majority and sure that leaves a percentage disatisfied but from a business standpoint you gladly upset 10% of your users
if it means it makes the other 90% happy.

The excuse that "Its cub today it might be vore tomorrow" sure, that might happen I find it extremely unlikely but it might. FA is owned by IMVU and I don't know about them but they might have
investors or banks they need to please so they don't lose investors or rights to loans and they don't want just about anything to go on the site. However I find it doubtful because you are comparing
something with a niche audience to something with a rather huge audience. Cubs also aren't completely banned, its nudety and violence involving them that is suspended so really it'd be more like vore
with nudity and violence got suspended, not the whole vore tag.

I can see where you're comming from with much of what you say but it also feels a bit like you are making a chicken out of a feather and you also overlook the reasons WHY things might be the way they
are.

#link Posted: 5 months ago

Sounds like the FA Witch Trials.
The accusations don't have to be warranted or accurate, but be prepared for the worst when someone hurls an accusation your way.

Also be careful, or the admins might take this journal and explanation of the events and arbitrary rules as an offense to them and you'll end up punished again.

#link Posted: 5 months ago

let's hope not. But eh, they kind of would be hurting themselves a bit there if they did. At least in a small, overtime kind of way.

#link Posted: 5 months ago

FA owes you an apology, if they have not given you one already.

Lets pretend that for what ever reason, they making posting art of male characters a bannable offense, and you have just finished drawing a drawing of a male character you like, so you post it
elsewhere, but also want to post it to FA. To do this, you make a second version of that image, where the character is female to fit their rules.

By the standard they have just set, they would ban you for going out of the way to follow their rules, simply because you posed content elsewhere. This is what they did, and it's why trying to be the
Internet police is a very bad thing.

Shame on all these witch hunting idiots for trying to bend over so many hoops to cause unnecessary problems for people. I'm waiting for those people to get punished for all this targeted harassment.

#link Posted: 5 months ago

lol, nope, no apology.

And ya, that's the silliest part of all for these issues, I went out of my way to make the image TOS friendly. Sure, I poked fun at the issue that required me to do that, but I still followed their
TOS.

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#link Posted: 5 months ago

yuuuuup.

As stated to the guy above this comment, it's really silly. Cus I did go out of my way to make the image TOS friendly, didn't post links or hint at where the full image would be. At the very least, as
silly as it is to ban cropped images or alternative works of an image, I should have at least be given a warning and they update their TOS to reflect this.

Comment hidden by its owner

#link Posted: 5 months ago

cp grooms kids that's why it's illegal v:

#link Posted: 5 months ago

what are kids doing looking at cub porn, lol?

#link Posted: 5 months ago

wishing they too could have a hyper cock and eat people with it. It's only reasonable to assume they'd have no sense of morality or reality at that young age and probably confuse fantasy with reality
all the time even in extreme cases.

#link Posted: 5 months ago

That was quite a read. Anyway, it's great to have you back. Sucks about what happened. I wish FA's policing of their rules was a little more fair.

#link Posted: 5 months ago

heh, sorry for the wall of text, but thanks for reading~ and thanks

#link Posted: 5 months ago

Missed having ya around, you crazy Eevee.