Where do all these bandwagons keep happening?
Retreats back to my little sheltered corner of fa*

Mostly Twitter, which is being overrun by radical left-wing politics. The first step to taking away toxic incentive is to either stop using it, or jump over to platforms like Gab where it's less of an echo-chamber. Without attention, a lot of narcissists move onto the next community that will take them.

I've been debating on a Twitter strictly for business... but... after all the horror stories I've been hearing, Im becoming less and less inclined.

>"less of an echo chamber"
> goes to gab

>🤔

If free speech leads to a dominant perspective contrary to that represented on Twitter, What does that say in regards to the political motivation of it's censorship?

There is nothing stopping bleeding heart SJWs using gab, they prefer their bubbles.

You mean the GAB that is full of Neo-Nazis that cheer for the death og Jews and compare them to Rats, that GAB? Why should anyone in their right mind join a place like this, why should I subject myself to that?

^

You do realize that totalitarianism, censorship and viewing people not as individuals but as their identity group are all traits of actual facism right? Those that constantly hammer on about how everything is racist/sexist are projecting.

Anti-Semites are rampant on Twitter FYI. By your own logic, don't use Twitter since they refer to Jews to termites.

I dont use Twitter, but not for that reason but thanks for giving me another reason to never use it. Secondly, didnt the Alt-right not come up with the NPC Meme, where they basically say the whole Left are programmed masses without any individuality? last time I checked, the whole of the Alt-Right always talks about "THe LEft" as if its some monolithic and treat anyone who is liberal as some sort of brainless cultists, all the whole they dream of some sort of white ethno-state and talk about how Europe is white and discard the idea that there are cultural differences between the different European countries.

'didnt the Alt-right not come up with the NPC Meme?'
No, Wojak is an old 4chan meme modified slightly into the NPC meme after the study came out showing that an alarming percentage of the populace have no inner monologue. Leftists decided to get offended because it rang a little too true. Much like when people react strongly to anything, this gave people incentive to push the meme further/longer. What you label the 'alt-right' is just your average internet user.

'All the whole they dream of some sort of white ethno-state and talk about how Europe is white and disca-'
Again, wrong. Most conservatives want less government, not more. The EU is criticized for attempting to be a tower of babel. Super governments always fail as they struggle to represent every country equally. It's why Globalism never works, and Marxism never works. You cannot represent everyone, so what often occurs is supporting just the minority that keeps you in power.

If you don't like being associated with brainless zealots, do more research. Calling all politics and economics 'racism' is as lazy as it gets.

Yeah right, because the cartoon with the Wojaks getting mad at CNN for supposeldy saying bad things about Trump is totally not a fab against leftist at all, dear me, how could I never misunderstand that one?

You mean the same Conservatives that want rampant military spending, want to increase the police force, want more border security and more surveillance while at the same time stripping away the fundamental rights of the people and getting rid of social security and healthcare because that equals socialism? How was that going "Conservatives want a government so small, it can easily fit through the keyhole of everyone's bedroom"

I think you misunderstand why the EU is a thing in the first place. After the Second World War, it was seen that the many conflicts the did took place in Europe and well, the world, took places because of individual nation states or Empires trying to kill each other over resources and land, so the idea was purposed that with cooperation and interdependency, those conflicts could be prevented and prosperity and security could be brought to a large part of the world. This seems to work, seeing as Germany, France and Britain have yet to try to murder each other like they used to in previous centuries.

Also, last time I checked, the is equal representation in the EU, each nation has veto power and the people sitting in it are voted by the EU population and everything they vote on has to be a majority vote, otherwise it wont go anywhere. I think that people totally misunderstand how the EU works and how it represents people.

Also, Globalism is at least a thing since the day of the Hanse and Fuggers who traded around the globe and I also dont see how you can even turn back Globalism, is it such a entrenched part of everything from economy to politics these days. I dont say that there is nothing to criticize in it, what I am saying is that we wont ever go back to the 19th Century idea of individual nation states, that's simply not possible anymore, we are way too connected for that.

Besides, if we as humanity ever want to survive and strive and actually go places, we all need to work together and forget the meaningless squabbles we have. If we eve want to go to space and explore it, we need to do it together, because no individual nation can do it alone. Just imagine how far we would come in many fields if the world decided to work together? And in all of this, it would not mean that we would have to forget the individual, cooperation for the benefit of everyone is always done by individuals after all.

but hey, I am just a brainless zealot who has no idea what he is talking about, am I right?

I had no clue most people don't have an inner monologue.
Mine never shuts up >.>

You forgot to mention that the Neo-Nazis on GAB do exactly the same stuff as the SJW's on Twitter do.

Twitter SJW: if you disagree with me, you're a Nazi white nationalist who wants to kill the jews.

GAB Neo-Nazi: if you disagree with me, you're an SJW degenerate who wants to contribute to white genocide.

I've been on both platforms, and I've been the target of both sentiments. I'm on the Alt-Furry blocklist over on Twitter despite my not being alt-right because I believe in freedom of speech and the dictionary definition of words like "gender" and "racism" which contradict SJW culture, and I've been blocked and referred to as an "SJW" and a "degenerate" among other things on GAB for pointing out that a black man marrying a white woman and having a half-and-half kid isn't genocide.

They're two sides of the same coin.

Not sure what conservatives you've been talking to if you think demands for a withdraw from NATO, effecting a huge reduction in military spending and influence around the world, as a desire for rampant military spending. Not to mention it wasn't us that asked to authorize drone surveillance and strikes on it's own citizens less than 4 years ago. Yes we want increased border security as we are sovereign nations that need to address a legitimate problem of criminal invasion and the slave exploitation of non-citizens, duh. Social security is a bloated and crumbling program that was never meant to be permanent. Healthcare does nothing but benefit a tiny percent of the population while simultaneously screwing everyone else because the power to set and inflate medical costs is the hands big pharma. Combine that with a government mandate and you've turned a competition into a runaway market.

You're also willfully confusing European Union for United Nations and international commerce for Globalisation.

See, thats why I have actually no idea what Conservatives in the USA stand for, because the last conservative I talked to, sure wanted a Iran invasion and wanted Trump to nuke North Korea and the "leave NATO" thing was mostly because "We spend too much money overseas, we can fight our wars alone". As for Socials security and healthcare: Ever thought about a single payer system so those taxes are put to good use? Would medical costs not be reduced of all people would pay for into a fund and would laws, capping prices for medicine not result in lower costs? Should Healthcare be one of the things that shouldn't be run for profit because its there to save lives and help people?

Is the slave exploitation of immigrants not a by-product of capitalism? Does that problem not exist because companies can save up on taxes because they dont have to pay the immigrants the same wages and something that could be solved by Government oversight?

Erm, no Globalization is exactly this: Globalization or globalisation is the process of interaction and integration between people, companies, and governments worldwide. Globalization has grown due to advances in transportation and communication technology. With increased global interactions comes the growth of international trade, ideas, and culture. Globalization is primarily an economic process of interaction and integration that's associated with social and cultural aspects. However, conflicts and diplomacy are also large parts of the history of globalization, and modern globalization.

So no I did not confuse anything, or do you have a totally different definition what Globalization is?

>globalism never works

Fam, we've been in a globalist society since after world war II what are you smoking?

yes but that requires people who go into the field of politics not be scummy, lying pieces of shit trying to only line their own pockets and push their own agendas. good luck with that.
Most conservatives I know do not want rampant military spending or surveillance. Some increased border patrolling yes though.
That's a nice idea the EU had to start but as a realist i have less than zero faith in it's ability to both succeed and not try to overstep it's bounds and likely cause terrible wars doing so.
And yeah, alll that welfare going to so many lazy cunts who'd rather survive off that instead of work. Yeah I do know people who have medical conditions that make them unable to work and i support wellfare for provable cases like theirs but the people who simply sit on their asses and pretend their can't get jobs should grow a pair and be responsibly. It's fucking sad I'm more responsible than them. I'm not a responsible person.
As for your last point. I fucking laughed loudly when i read that. The left is doing MORE to divide people than any conservative policy. I fucking hate most leftists because they spew the same garbage of everything being racist, sexist or whatever. It's pissing people off in a manner that is frankly both hilarious and ridiculous and on top of that it's pushing people that don't want to be a fucking sheep into the right leaning political crown because at least there they won't be insulted, screamed at or censored.

i'm just of the opinion sites like gab and twitter just make you stupid at this point. It's why i changed my twitter password to something i'd never remember and promptly ceased to log into it. I spend less time being angry at the rampant stupidity that way.

"Again, wrong. Most conservatives want less government, not more."

True-ish. The conservative portion of thought for governance wants the correct amount of government combined with personal responsibility and freedoms. The current situation is a lot of cultural conservatism though, masquerading as political conservatism.

Many people who call themselves conservatives are special snowflake asshats with cultural conservatism raping their minds, leading to tribalism and very bad things.
Many people who call themselves liberals are special snowflake asshats with a lack of personal responsibility and common sense raping their minds, leading to tribalism and very bad things.

The above peeps are the loudest, and the tribal state preys on human nature, making "If you're not with us, you're against us" the thing. So it makes for a huge mess, since people with mixed views or balanced views are the worst of the worst to these people.

So, racists are racists. Extremists are bad, no matter what "side" they are on. The vast majority of people are balanced and respectable, but when they express a belief or leaning regarding any one thing in either direction, it results in attacks from the extremists. Then also, so many are cattle and can't think for themselves (tribalism), and the farmers on both sides lead them nicely to the slaughterhouse.

Honestly I think one of the biggest issues is that people don't realize one major thing:
"My rights end where yours begin. Your rights end where mine begin."

No the slave exploitation of non-citizens is not a by-product of Capitalism as it denies them the opportunity to become citizens and entraps them under the threat of deportation. You're reasoning is an example of Correlation vs Causation, in which companies who have benefited from capitalism and who also unethically exploit vulnerable workforce must mean exploitation is a result of capitalism. This is a false cause logical fallacy and correlation is not causation. As for the idea of government oversight, you're intentionally blurring the lines between a government creating and enforcing laws against such exploitation and the state directly controlling industry. That's the false narrative to any assertion of government interference being anti-capitalism.

Glob·al·i·za·tion
/ˌɡlōbələˈzāSHən,ˌɡlōbəˌlīˈzāSHən/
noun
the process by which businesses or other organizations develop international influence or start operating on an international scale.

The key term in the definition of Globalization you provided is "integration".The key term in mine is "influence". Again you make the false assumption that two sovereign nations cannot interact amicably without dissolving said sovereignty using only the example of an era of imperialist land grabbing at the height industrial proliferation and violent shifts in geopolitics, aka World Wars 1 and 2. That is why I said you are intentionally misconstruing international commerce with Globalization and even the very definition of Globalization itself as it doesn't infer the appropriation or removal of a sovereign nations culture to fit anothers.

It really looks like a lot of the trouble is just caused by the bending of words. Conservative governance being tied to caustic cultural conservatism. Changing "globalism" from "Each place as an independent entity doing what they do best and cooperating" to "enslaving people elsewhere and taking away their rights" or "white genocide" or anything else. Take the word for a concept and change the concept it refers to, and suddenly the good word and concept is left no good meaning.

Thats actually pretty accurate.

Conservative: Includes Nazis and klansmen who dream of killing jews.

SJW: Supports groups like Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, PLO, Fatah, Al Asqua Martyrs Brigades, etc., who actually kill jews. Supports BDS, which is a subsidiary of the previously mentioned groups. Marches on nakba day, which is a day of sorrow for not succeeding in driving the jews into the sea and killing them. Supports the 'Palestinian cause', which is to kill jews.

Given the choices, I'd feel more safe with the klansmen.

Things I disagree with the right wing on:

excessive military spending is non-productive. It does not create anything of value to the nation. For example, B-2 bombers are $2 billion each and have no purpose. There are missiles designed to sink a $15 billion aircraft carrier. The USA has spend over $6 Trillion on war since 9/11.

Nationalized healthcare would give better service at a lower cost.

Educating people is an investment that pays off. Also, those with student loans do not purchase new cars/houses, etc. The future is high-tech, and the US is getting beat, badly. i work in a high-tech industry, and my colleagues are over 90% not from the USA. Companies are shutting down R&D in the USA and moving it out.

Nationalism does not equal patriotism. Wanting the country to have more engineers/scientists/designers/artists instead of more soldiers means wanting a country that will be relevant in the future.

Providing enough funding for the sick and the elderly to live in dignity is part of being civilized.

Unregulated markets inevitably leads to the concentration of wealth/resources/means of production in as few hands as possible. This brings about misery and tyranny (Railroad barons, east india company, sharecropping, slavery. Yes, slavery is very profitable.)

Anti-semitism. Racism. Xenophobia.

Things I disagree with the left on:

Western nations cannot accommodate having the rest of the world's population moving to live in them. Unlimited immigration will only serve to destroy the host nation. The host nation has its own culture. If someone emigrates to a new country, they are to respect that country's culture/language/history.

My employer pays everyone who does the same rank of work at the same pay rate. If there is a company that would give me a 30% increase in salary due to gender, please let me know so that I may send them a resume`.

Not all work is of equal value. A mud pie, no matter how lovingly it is made, remains a mud pie. It has no value. Brain surgeons get paid more than custodians. (I do agree that interlocking directorships in corporations have lead to obscene levels of executive pay. See my above statement about the right wing about unregulated capitalism). If someone wants to be paid the same as the next person at the same job, then they need to have the same level of education/training, years of experience, productivity, expertise, and hours of work put in per week. If, after those criteria are taken into account, there is a pay gap, then civil action against the employer is justified.

The lack of there being a proportionate amount of whatever group in a given field may not be due to a vast conspiracy. An example that I read was about how fewer women than men think that a career dedicated to producing vats of acetone is what they want.

The underdog in a situation does not always have the moral high ground. Real life is not like Star Wars. Rebels can 'actually' be the bad guys (E.g. drug dealers in Latin America, ISIL). Underdog groups can be fighting in support of genocide or tyranny.

The Nazi party in Germany had about 7% of the populace as members. There are nations today who have 10% of the populace who agree with the thought of killing off the Jews. Again, these minorities are not good guys. They are evil.

I am not liable for the actions of my ancestors. "Visit not the sins of the father onto his children." My ancestors did not own slaves. They did not kill Native Americans. I owe no one reparations for these actions. If there is a surviving slave owner, that person is responsible to make reparations to their former slaves. (My grandparents had cousins in Poland, Romania, Ukraine, Poland, Russia and Germany. My parents didn't. I am not owed reparations for mass-murder from those above mentioned countries.)

Sexism, racism, antisemitism. (yes, the far left wing shows all of these). European ancestry is not evil.

So basically, there's nowhere to run or hide from this bullshit.

We ether live with it...or die covered in it.

My one sticking point about a Nationalised health care system:
it's not a solution to healthcare if the culture in the country that is going to implement it is not fitness/healthy eating focused and additionally willing to take the extra tax burden to support it.
Note the US is none of these things and are actively against the idea because they do not like the idea of paying from someone else's mistakes.
Unless you change the culture around food and health in the US any nationalised effort for health care will fail. Also slightly related, most agricultural industry is owned by the same people that own most of the medical industry in the US.

The US already invests 60% of it's Government Budget in Welfare, a little more than half that is invested in their basic version of health care. This is a country with a 4.5 trillion dollar operating budget. (12 zeros)
And for the military side of things it's near 25% of the budget and more than half that is going into Pensions and non defence related work (like health care coverage). These are just the general numbers, a Nationalised Health Care system akin to the NHS in the UK would balloon the US' Budget 2 or 3 times.

But this situation can be avoided by letting the States do this by themselves, remember they are countries on to themselves.
You do not need big centralised systems if you can localise and distribute the systems, it's cheaper in the long run and is fairly robust.

I could point out the really big elephant in the room but I would get dog piled for pointing it out.

Yep, if you add being against witch hunting/mob mentality/deplatforming/silencing/making one lose their job from both sides, that about sums it up for me too.
Also the left's insistence in not drawing a line between personal and professional life.

The USA has the most expensive healthcare system in the world. ~$10,000/person, without full coverage for all citizens. This is about 150% as much as Switzerland and 200% as much as pretty much every other country spends. Using the same system as pretty much any other nation on earth would give a cost saving.

As far as leaving it up to the individual states, many states refused federal funding to be used for healthcare. They would not take free money to be used for healthcare.

The USA uses the Calvinist belief system. This posits that God has decided on each person's social status. Kings are in power by god's will. Serfs are poor by god's will. There is no changing god's will. It is a belief system designed to perpetuate a medieval social system. As such, if you are poor, it is god's will that you suffer the consequences (if god afflicts you with sickness, then you deserve to die). If you are wealthy, god has decided that you are to be healed.

As far as food quality, I only have anecdotal evidence. The recipes that I cook are the ones passed down through the family since ~ the 1920's. I use the same size plates and utensils. My ancestors weren't overweight. I am. A co-worker of mine commented that the various foreigners that she knows cook their family recipes and have ballooned in weight since coming to the USA. There are pretty much countless statements online by people who have emigrated to the USA that they are gaining weight like mad.

Farmers are paid for cows/chickens/sheep/goats etc. by weight. Feeding them hormones causes them to put on a huge amount of weight, resulting in higher sale prices. Those hormones do not vanish.

Shoppers at WalMart (inexpensive)are fat. Shoppers at Whole Foods (expensive) aren't. There's two big differences in these groups. One is that the organic food (no hormones) costs more. The other is that healthful food is expensive. If a parent is buying food for a child, an organic apple is about $1.25, while a box of snack cakes is the same cost as two apples. Do you tell the child that they only get two apples per week as desserts with their meals or a snack cake for dessert each day? A hamburger and fried potatoes from a fast food location is about $2.

Well other than the out of field religion tangent,

I agree the there is something very wrong with the food supply across the world because it's happening everywhere with an industrialised economy.

Too much free sugar and carbohydrates in diet coupled with innumerable pseudo-estrogens (washing agents, herb- and pesticides, various bulking agents used in food, plasticisers in food holding containers) and growth hormones in livestock accumulating in the supply is a recipe for disaster.

so it's not just one thing, it's many many many little failures that lead to this situation.

I'm not going to comment on peoples lack of restraint.

The Calvinist reference is historical context for why those who would directly benefit from social systems actively oppose them. There is also resentment/envy of those who gain the supposed luxury lifestyle that welfare provides. Add to this the pleasure gained from watching others suffer.

There is the myth that those who are sickly or overweight have those conditions due to inherent character flaws. Every fat man is a glutton. I do exercise and am thin, therefore it is a panacea. I am immortal and will never have the problems that those people have. I will never get old and fat. I am superior to those people.

The children and grandchildren of starved mice are genetically predisposed to gain weight. This, of course, does not happen to humans. Lowering calorie intake always leads to weight loss, as the body is like a steam engine, governed only by the Carnot cycle. Basal metabolism does not slow down to preserve body weight when calorie intake drops. People on calorie-restricted diets, < 1000 kcal/day, never gain weight in studies.

This guy knows what's up...
Left wing extremists and right wing extremists are both retarded and extremism is always harmful. Maybe it comes down to people being 100% sure that they must be right and that anybody who disagrees with them just hasn't read up enough yet. You can always dig some research or quote to back up something. But at the end of the day, even when presented with the same information, people will interpret it differently based on their own personal experiences, which is something that nobody likes to admit but actually plays a huge role in decision making.

Its not that they prefer bubbles. Twitter didnt let people be dicks to be dicks anymore by purposely misgendering someone.(we can sit here and debate that all day but that is neither here nor there) and that created a niche market for conservative viewpoints. It really isnt that complicated chief.

i consider myself left wing... but jesus christ some of the people on twitter are just downright beyond belief. i got called a nazi because i said killing people i didnt agree with ***WASNT*** a good idea

...

eh!?

Moderates like ourselves (and make no mistake, we are now the moderates in this world of extreme polarization) are losing our place in the world as the desire to simply destroy "the other side" has taken over on BOTH sides, not just one or the other. I'm getting weary of seeing all of this "you are evil!" "no you are evil!" bullshit.

It is depressing as hell.

simply being sane is apparently too much to ask sometimes

Indeed, unfortunately...

Ah so this is what furry bigotry looks like :) Good to know.

Strong words. I agree mostly

I retreated from the fandom for the most part years ago due to all of this crap happening.

Sadly its not just the furry community that's like this... seen it on gaming communities and anime/manga communities too.

So true.

I see this happening everwhere and my dude i dont care if it inside the fandom
It everwhere you look and go
And yes i agreed with that we need more role models (like i said in your previous journal)
If we want to make this fandom more mature we need to start more open debate instead of moving to other sites that temperary Just to start all over again Come with beter solution man because i can see this "solution" fail pretty bad

I consider FA a lost cause. It's a sinking ship with way too many holes to plug when it's administration actively makes more of them.

Honestly, a new platform that actually does it right can be the re-invigoration the community needs to start over. As I mentioned, narcissists need attention to survive and they won't get it on a platform that promotes and honor system & community first incentive from the top down.

Hmmm and what cant of difference Will you have the FA?
What are your promises to keep this "Toxicity" out of there
I believe migrating to another platform is not the solution Just like mass migration and expecting a country to fix Itself
It takes afford from all of us to make a difference and not Just running away from our problems

Fleeing a failing country is fine if their democratic system has failed you. One view is allowed here on FA. You can't expect me to get anything done here when administration actively work against me in the opposite direction.

If it doesn't exist, make it yourself. I plan to do that. It won't be anything like FA as FA is part of the problem.

Hmmmm interested how the site Will go from the ground up
But sorry but im not going to invest into it simply because i dont know what the future May bring to us
I do however wish you good luck with your plan and hopefully it would be beter then FA but we Will have to see

That's a fair stance to have. We'll be able to talk more about it's feature list once we have a proof of concept. Ideas are only as good as their execution.

Hmhm
Im looking forward to it

I think it's a good idea that you are choosing to create your own site and community instead of trying to change the current one.

There was burned furs, and there was "someone fucks up, usually some popufur and defence and blame on either side. You had the "Fukkin' degenerate this why we need Burned Furs" and the "Nuu popufur drawzorz me they nut baddywad." and as always in the middle you had the sedate, sane voices either going, "Lets wait and see what happens?"

"All this has happened before and will happen again"

I get a feeling it's not necessarily the fandom itself, really, but rather the general meta-social issues. The rest of the world is creeping into the fandom and making it a lot like other places. This is not a problem unique to the fandom.

Back in the mid 90's, it was just common sens that being a bad person was bad, including in the fandom. Society as a whole has been changing, and the fandom is just a subset of human society, so it's not immune to these changes.

Media sensationalism definitely plays a big role. Furries are baiting into callout culture hard and all the tribalism that comes along with it. You can now get popular just for being radically political, no talent or content of character needed. By the same token, a talented individual can be outcast purely because they vote for someone else, that's a terrifying precedent to uphold.

It's very similar to the problem overwhelming college campus right now. A place that is meant to provoke critical thinking, challenging questions and exploration of the self is now a safe space for shielding young liberal voters. Leaving them grossly unprepared for the real world.

If the furry community keeps it up, it will grow incredibly stale as all the interesting individuals will leave.

After two and a half decades here, I've seen so many people leave, and so many new people arrive, I'm honestly not sure that it's as big a deal as it is made out to be. The fandom just continues to reflect the overall environment that it's a subset of and the environment is pretty toxic these days. So it seeps into everything, including the fandom.

It's a sign of a decadent culture, soon it'll be in terminal decline but it'll go out with a whimper not a bang, as all empires before have done so.
But there will be eventual renewal and rebirth, something different but familiar. This is the cycle of all cultures, to begin, expand, contract and die.

good choice

Honestly the burned furs need to come back. Either that or this fandom needs to die. If its community members are having a miserable time or people are being discusting leave. If there is any chance of changing it, it died a long time ago. Sure there are many good aspects of this fandom like so many cool people here and those that are really nice and open, then there are those who bring politics, negativity into the fandom that make it a dare i say a cancer on the fandom. If its a fandom about having fun meeting new people and unity politics, religion wont sow unity it will sow disunity. Thats my 2 cents on the matter.

Warning: if this triggers you, I really dont care.

You sir have given a new insite to this. Thank you.

I feel like there needs to be an update to the famous "I'm here to sell these guys porn" comic.

xDDD

If you're looking for patreon donors for your project, which is just going to turn into the same thing you claim to be shifting away from, you can do so without the clickbait title/ topic. I mean game recognizes game here, you should just come out say you're making a financial/ social power move that you know full well is only going to be the same toxic environment just to support Kabier and yourself long after you stop being contributors. Never mind the initial start up costs how much do you expect it to cost to run month by month, maintenance, update and so on? You'll need revenue from somewhere whether through advertising space or paid memberships. Looking at FA's model of $250 per 300x90, four of which on each page, you can probably figure about 15 to 30 refreshes before you see the same ad and I think everyone gets the picture.

I hate to think you might be right, butttt...

... hell, you make sense.

Admittedly this is just my theory but:

Years ago with the introduction of Patreon artists and other contributors gained a more stable form of monthly income than burning themselves out taking tons of commissions every month. This also gave a meteoric rise to the popufurs as only contributors with a large enough support base could really make something out of Patreon. It also freed them to raise pricing of commissions more then typical inflation and consumer demand which meant fewer commissions as only the wealthier members of the fandom can afford them. This adversely drove lower income furs either out of the fandom or made them less committed to it.

Now combine the fact that most furs are white males in late teens to mid twenties (university age), throw in the escalation of leftist ideologies in higher education to the point of indoctrination, fuel it with the economic rise of Asian markets which has inflamed geopolitics, a demand for demographic shifts to support crumbling political parties, and you boom you get the "Toxic Furries".

How this plays into content creators like Jasonafex is their views differ from the social/ political movement of younger furs which I'm speculating means a stagnation in income growth in both Patreon and other projects. As they are also getting older they have to think about their needs and cost of living increasing while at the same time losing a foothold in what has been their only source of income for many years, the furry fandom. So these content creators are faced with either starting at the bottom in the workforce or finding some way to turn things around.

This controversy about toxic furries in my opinion is a sham to drive up P.T. Barnum'ish notoriety reflected in his other journal about the number one term leading people to FurAffinity being "Jasonafex". The accusations are largely leveled at the fandom itself while deliberately omitting the toxicity in content creators. All to raise awareness and support of their platform project which is just a financial parachute for the aging out furries.

I'm entirely uninformed about all of this, I've had my head buried in the sand for years, and I appreciate you taking to write all that up for me.

What you've described makes sense. It's shitty to say that Jasonafex's journal here is basically just virtue signaling for publicity, and I don't want to believe that, but it's only healthy to view everything we're dealing with here with a level of speculation, and all things considered that kind of action would make sense.

That said, I try to see the best in people, and that part of me wants to believe that there isn't some agenda here. I haven't paid Jasonafex or any of these popular furries any mind (even when I was an active member of the fandom) for the fact that I am here for bonds and connections first, art second. The more popular you are here the less accessible you are as a person, and while I don't blame people for having fans, it kinda made me never bother to invest a bunch of time into these artists' personal lives, when they cannot/will not do the same for me.

I don't know anything about anything but the vibe I always got from popular artists is that they're kindof their own social circle in of themselves. The kind of stuff that evidences this for me is stuff like that furry they all made up and did art for, pretending he existed. There's also that three pyramid thing a bunch of popular artists used to hide on their page and sometimes in their artwork.

http://www.furaffinity.net/user/sierranova

I think those things were obviously done for the laughs, which is perfectly fine, but in a way I kinda feel like a peasant in a quickly growing bourgeoisie culture.

Damn. Look at me, using words I barely know how to, heh.

If you can shift through the bullshit. You can find alot of information that will give you a better insight on certain people in question of this journal while some are just really hardcore hating because drama gaise. I know enough to feel some eye rolling at reading this journal thats all i'll say.

If you are going to speculate, do your research.

> Years ago with the introduction of Patreon artists...

This is making the implication the only reason a creator would use Patreon is to be lazy and avoid the commission structure, this is insulting and clearly false if you look at what kind of content popular Patreon accounts produce. Users such as Zaush are now able to produce the best work they have made in their career at a more frequent basis due to stable, reliable income and the freedom that comes with it to draw what you want for your established target audience. That is basic economics.

> Now combine the fact that most furs are white males...

Already resorting to Identity Politics. Making a case favoring any political belief should not rely on stereotypes and buzzwords to get there.

> I'm speculating means a stagnation in income growth in both Patreon and other projects...

This proves you didn't even glance at the Patreon link. Our income has steadily increased every single year since we started our careers. Kabiers current income per page is the highest it has ever been and is looking to keep going in that direction regardless of how much sand people try to stir. Simply by posting her art on other platforms she is already contacted by the leading artists of those platforms for new opportunities. Starting at the bottom is slim to none.

> This controversy about toxic furries in my opinion is a sham to drive up P.T....

Because you play into the negative stereotype and therefor it offends you. You are clearly salty I am the most popular user on FA, do something about it by raising standards.

See this is the toxicity of content creators I'm talking about. You clearly didn't read what I said about Patreon as you just restated my point of it creating stability and then projected you're own assertions on laziness.

Identity politics, again, is you projecting your own buzzwords. The statistics at this point are known and the implications for tribalism and outrage culture within these demographs is something you and your guests have discussed at length in your own Cuckshack videos. Ad hominem much?

As for the Patreon links, which are you referring to? I see your animations and podcasts Patreon at $484 and Snaggletooth Studios at $549. If memory serves these combined are less per month than what you were getting from Amorous which is out on Steam for free. Not that it matters as you and I both know Patreon doesn't provide statistics on your pages to support your claim of a steady increase or my speculation of your decline. Combined with the lack of evidence of new contacts with leading artists from other platforms and you really haven't changed my mind.

Finally, my playing to negative stereotypes is laughable as all you've been doing lately is look for cringe stereotypes in this community to attack it with. Merely another anecdotal logical fallacy from a dime store intellectual just like Kothorix because you can't age out gracefully.

Roxyier was right about you guys, everyone else here knows there's cringe in the fandom and doesn't go looking for it. You two bury your heads in it until you're salty as fuck and puke on everyone else. Honestly, Jason if you're doing so well on other platforms without furries why don't you just leave? How do you really expect any of this to change just because you make your own website?

Considering you have completely dodged the rebuttal provided from your own statements, time to make this more obvious:

> See this is the toxicity of content creators I'm talking about
Tu Quoque fallacy - Avoiding having to engage with criticism by turning it back on the accuser - answering criticism with criticism.

> You clearly didn't read what I said about Patreon as you just restated my point of it
False Cause - Presuming that a real or perceived relationship between things means that one is the cause of the other.

> Identity politics, again, is you projecting your own buzzwords.
Tu Quoque

> Ad hominem much?
Personal Incredulity - Saying that because one finds something difficult to understand that it's therefore not true.

> As for the Patreon links, which are you referring to?
Anecdotal - You know full well that I referred to Kabier's Patreon, which is also the one linked in this very journal, shifting the goalposts makes it easier for you to dodge the subject. Trying to play dumb hurts your case as it proves you didn't even read the journal properly before complaining.

> Finally, my playing to negative stereotypes is laughable as all you've been doing lately is look for cringe stereotypes in this community to attack it with.
Strawman - Misrepresenting someone's argument to make it easier to attack.

> Merely another anecdotal logical fallacy from a dime store intellectual
The fallacy fallacy - Presuming that because a claim has been poorly argued, or a fallacy has been made, that the claim itself must be wrong.

> Roxyier was right about you guys, everyone else here knows there's cringe in the fandom and doesn't go looking for it.l
Appeal to emotion - Manipulating an emotional response in place of a valid or compelling argument.

> Honestly, Jason if you're doing so well on other platforms without furries why don't you just leave? How do you really expect any of this to change just because you make your own website?
Loaded question - Asking a question that has a presumption built into it so that it can't be answered without appearing guilty.

I didn't dodge any rebuttal and you're making the fallacy fallacy to avoid your own ad hominen fallacy against me. It doesn't work like that Jason.

You're projecting of identity politics is not a Tu Quoque fallacy as I never made the illogical argument. You did by claiming I used identity politics in the first place and you're willfully misinterpreting the definition of logical fallacies.

Calling out your Ad Hominem fallacy also doesn't fit the definition of a Personal Incredulity fallacy as it did not in any way state a misunderstanding on my part or use any misunderstanding to declare an untruth. Again you're twisting definitions to fit your illogical argument.

As for shifting the goal post to an Anecdotal fallacy by making this just about Kabier is what you did. You're attempting to frame the argument to favor your illogical debate. Answer the question.

Your argument represents itself with out any revision on my part so a Strawman fallacy is not applicable to your accusations against me. You made a biased emotionally charged reaction instead of making any valid discussion into my speculation.

The other fallacy arguments; fallacy fallacy, appeal to emotion, and loaded question are simply half ass smoke screens for you to avoid making a real counter to my speculation. It's a do as I say not as I do circle jerk and we're not going to get anywhere pulling the logical fallacy card with every comment.

Stop presuming to know me, my motivations or biases and come up with a legitimate debate. Both of your Patreon accounts have lost between 50% and 80% financially since 2016:
https://graphtreon.com/creator/Jasonafex
https://graphtreon.com/creator/KillerKobolds

Kabier had a bounce back in her Patreon in September after losses between January and August:
https://graphtreon.com/creator/kabiercomics

Zaush plateaued in September 2017:
https://graphtreon.com/creator/zaush

In that same amount of time Furaffinity has had regular fluctuations in traffic and interest between 44 million and 30 million. It peaked sharply in 2014 but that could be the result of the multiple DDOS attacks it had during that time so I'm not counting it.
https://trends.google.com/trends/ex.....;q=Furaffinity
https://www.similarweb.com/website/furaffinity.net

This is why I'm claiming your "toxic furry" nonsense is a cover for your decline and even Kabier's instability. This project to create a new website is just a financial parachute scheme in the face of no longer being relevant in this community.

Come up with a real counter argument.

> I didn't dodge any rebuttal.

Yes you did, and you continue to do so because you know actually refuting the central point breaks down your argument. Why is it so difficult for you to read the journal? You have an agenda you are clearly trying to push, trying to find anything to fit your narrative. That narrative being the only reason someone would want to help the community is personal gain. Quite the projection considering you clearly side with a narcissist that uses stolen assets without credit. He has no personality or talent, hence why he rides on the popularity of others to remain relevant. 'Roxyier' isn't even a name he came up with and was also taken from us.

> Stop presuming to know me, my motivations or biases

And yet you can make bold assumptions as to the motivations of this journal? Then again if you understood your own hypocrisy, you wouldn't rely on so many obvious fallacies.

> Both of your Patreon accounts have lost between 50% and 80% financially since 2016:

Blatant lie. Your own links disprove this, click year/lifetime instead of month. Zaush is the 19th most profitable comic artist on all of Patreon, Kabier being 102nd. Both are earning more now than any proceeding month in the history of their Patreon accounts. You want to shift the goalposts to my hobbyist Patreon accounts because they are far more inactive, trying to imply they are lowering in value in really they aren't being updated. If I want them to go up, uploading more then once every two months would do the trick. Killer Kobolds hasn't seen a meaningful update since Amorous was completed. Common sense would clearly indicate that a demo release would see a boom, much like how Amorous received 3k a month in the first few months of it's development. This is basic economics.

If your narrative were true, you would see me desperately uploading to Patreon in a vein attempt to make them relevant, it is not and has never been my main priority. Posting a link here is to gauge interest. If we see a marginal peak of support on Kabiers Patreon, it means we can have a fair amount of confident investing front-up on this new platform before even needing to announce crowd funding.

You want to desperately change the subject because due to your own admission, you are part of the problem. Nothing but complaints, no solutions.

> I didn't dodge any rebuttal.

>>Yes you did, and you continue to do so because you know actually refuting the central point breaks down your argument.

What are you talking about? Your first reply was an accusation that I hadn't done my research, that I used identity politics, and presumed that I fall into negative stereotypes which somehow makes me salty that your a trend search term. Then when I addressed this you doubled down on the fallacy fallacy instead of making a real argument. If your rebuttal was just attacking me personally rather than formulating valid counter then we've beaten that dead horse long enough.

> Stop presuming to know me, my motivations or biases

>>And yet you can make bold assumptions as to the motivations of this journal? Then again if you understood your own hypocrisy, you wouldn't rely on so many obvious fallacies.

Absolutely. After reading your journals, watching your Cuckshack podcasts, and Kothorix video on toxic furries it's easy to see you base the entirety your claims on anecdotal experiences and a wider ideological shift to the regressive progressive left in younger furries. This is the biased perspective you share with these individuals and anyone who doesn't, "do anything in their power to suck your dick to get popular" is part of the problem. These are your problems and it's illogical as it does not pertain to the furry fandom as a whole in any way. Now you've demonstrated you have some understanding of logical fallacies and routinely call them out on others so either you're the biggest hypocrite I've ever met or it's all a front. I gave you the benefit of the doubt on this one.

> Both of your Patreon accounts have lost between 50% and 80% financially since 2016:

>>Blatant lie. Your own links disprove this, click year/lifetime instead of month.

I did click on "All" and the earnings in each Patreon shows a decline; Jasonafex monthly is at $467 which is down by 51%. Snaggletooth Studios is at $524 which is down 85.1%. It's not a lie, anyone can look at the data and see what I'm talking about while you insist on "shifting the goal post" to their standing in the whole of Patreon. Now I can understand some decrease after the release of a major project like Amorous, that's logical, but we're talking about a 51% to 85.1% drop and your reasoning is that it's never been a priority for you. So why do you use Patreon as a meter for success and not the success of what's you've produced? Not a loaded question, I'd like to know your reasoning.

Now going back to my original speculation (not narrative, see Speculation noun the forming of a theory or conjecture), regardless of where Kabier or Zaush stand compared to other Patreon accounts, the data I linked indicates either a decrease spanning 7 months before bouncing back or now growth. You pointed out that Zaush is making more than he has ever before and is ranked 19th most popular but the reality is his most profitable month was April this year and his ranking has dropped from 10th place since June 2017 and continues to decline.

Knowing this and again giving you the benefit of the doubt that you know your assertions are illogical, you can't financially sustain yourselves without a drastic change in the form of your own platform.

If you want to continue the irrational side though I've never claimed to be part of the problem, this is another illogical assertion. I said that cringe furries are known and that everyone but you ignores them. You inflate them out of proportion, based on your experiences and those within your circle, and that there must be a solution. Then anyone who doesn't agree with you is also apart of the problem *cough* tribalism *cough*.

Stop it. You're too smart to be posting here. Logical thinking and reason are not welcomed in this comments section.

Which really bothers me as I don't consider myself to be particularly smart. I just call out the bullshit and it sucks that I have to do it here cause I used to like him. Now he's just a narcissist masturbating his ego while living in denial that if it wasn't for Kabier he'd still be making loop animations of everyone else work. He's not an artist and even this idea of creating another furry website is old hat that I'm sure he'll pat himself on the back for.

I'm not sure who gifted him a copy of Robert Greene's 48 Laws of Power but he clearly stopped at Law 7.

But what do I know, I'm just some rando republican furry who got his house without taking a shit on everyone else around me. Guess that makes me salty.

The irony and hypocrisy that he complains about people not being "real people" and only acting a certain way in order to get popularity (or in his case, money for his new FA ripoff) while being that same sort of person is just sad. I liked his art, but this journal finally made me unwatch him.

Of course, I'm not "the most popufur artist on FA", lest we forget who is, so what do I know either?

Okay, we should cease the means of npc production.

You have a level head and thats great man. Many people don't see the whats going on and frankly how this isn't gonna help. Shoot a PM if you have way more to say on it.

My main job is web development, and there are ways to reduce server cost significantly. FA can't do it easily without major rewrites. A new platform could theoretically get by incredibly cheaply. For example using the server info from here: http://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Fur_Affinity#Statistics I could replicate everything including storage and delivery of images for about $3200/year.

Of course you have to know what you're looking for to get that pricing. If you don't then chances are you're going to end up paying around $10k -> $20k/year.

True, I was running my poweredge r710 close to $850/ year but I wouldn't run a site like this off it. You're saying you can replicate a site like this, bandwidth and power consumption, for $3200/ year? Do you have a portfolio or some of your work I can take a look at?

> You're saying you can replicate a site like this, bandwidth and power consumption, for $3200/ year?
Using the stats and hardware available from Wikifur, yup. The numbers specifically being 40tb bandwith and 48tb storage full use. Bandwith is mostly irrelevent for cost from my setup. Storage is where the cost comes in but again it assumes full 48tb. FA probably isn't using that yet and with dedupe we can reduce storage even more (ex: 1 instance of image across multiple accounts uploaded by artist and commissioner.)

> Do you have a portfolio or some of your work I can take a look at?
Portfolio, no. I'm currently full time employed by a company and have been for long enough that my portfolio would solely be the one company. On that note, I also don't give out who I work for. So unfortunately you'll just have to go on pinky promise I know what I'm talking about

I could divulge how a setup would work, but not the exact companies used to get to the price point.

I understand, darn those non-disclosure agreements. You have me interested at least, so I'll do my own research. I was trying to start a couple businesses years ago but the teams I scraped together were all asshats so it never went anywhere. Now I just keep the domains up to date through NOIP in case I can find something to do with them.

As a lesser known fur I can tell you from experience that your statement...

"Would there be this much virtue signalling if this guy was relatively unknown? Doubtful."

...is true. I know this because someone tried to virtue signal against me over on Twitter after I called them out for some bullshit they were doing. Their tweet went nowhere and got buried in a matter of minutes.

Knowing what kind of content got highlighted on the virtue-signalling tweet (a cub YCH I was offering on IB), I am confident that had I been a big name I would have become a huge target for the witch hunters.

Didn't you and Kabier use to hang out with my mate, Exterio? He's a diagnosed NPD so reading this kind of strikes a chord...

left wing......ugh......that thging will never stop sucking and damaging all they touch.

i live in venezuela, a country literally destroyed by left wing....let's keep it away from furdom, please.

also.... SJW'S MUST BE STOPPED. THEY ARE DESTROYING EVERYTHING FUNNY AND COOL. PLEASE, STOP THOSE MORONS NOW.

Oof, if that is true I greatly sympathise with your situation. Venezuela is a trainwreck that more people need to pay attention to, let alone the effects of Marxism on all of recorded history.

It's always the 'No true Scotsman' logical fallacy of 'Well when we're in power, we'll do it right! That wasn't real socialism!'

yep.....left wing will never accept how much it sucks, add internet to the mix. and we get morons like sjw's and feminazis (yes, i know the term is "offensive" but so are they....) ruining everybody's fun in their neverending quest for being right while thinking wrong.

A little something my grandad told me, whether he was a fool or not, remains to be seen.
"If everyone is an asshole.... YOU'RE the asshole."
It took me a few times saying that out loud to get it back then.

Your grandfather sounds like a smart fella. He's got a good point.

He was as wise as they come in my eyes. Nobody owns up to their wrongs. Its so easy to call everyone else an asshole instead of stopping and saying "you know what, maybe Im the asshole."

Well I mean, self-awareness isn't exactly growing on trees.

Oh god...

I could be super deluded and not even know.

<_>

Am I an insufferable asshole at times? Absolutely. Theres alot of myself that needs worked on.

https://youtu.be/W5FfJ89rGPc

I've been tuned out of the fandom for a few years. Coming back and finding it in the state it is has been pretty disappointing.

More than anything, what the hell can anyone do to try and fix this situation?

These past few days I've been doing a purge of inactive/deactivated watchers and I was surprised by the volume of people who've boogied out of this place. I figure a good amount probably just grew out of or away from the fandom, but I don't doubt the above was partially responsible.

In a fandom full of eccentric weirdos obsessed with animal people, you'd think we'd be a little more kindred with one another. I think I remember from the one Kothorix video I watched that he describes the fandom as in what is almost a perpetual high-school mentality.

Shame.

I agree, Impulsive indulgent behavior with no accountability or responsibility is leading to mature users leaving the high-school environment the community adulates.

Losing followers is not a problem that needs fixing, it's the ideological health of the fandom itself. What are it's current core values? It certainly isn't inviting or tolerant.

This is why I barely interact with anyone on here except the select few I do trust. This is a bit unrelated, I think. When I was 14 years old, I came across this fandom. I found Furaffinity on my own and I thought it was going to be a community where everyone is 'family' in a sense. I grew up without one so I guess thats what I truely wanted. Anyway, after signing up and seeing all the artists, they inspired me to do it to. So naturally, starting out I wasnt that great at it. But what followed is what changed my entire opinion of this fandom; after that incident, I saw more and more of it happen to other people and I just could not believe that this community was built on popularity, nothing more.

I came across this artist. Completely in awe of what he could draw. He was the first person I interacted with. On his page, he seemed nice. Replied to everyones comments, and shouts. So I decided to inbox him with a typical "How do you do" and the whole speech of how his art "moved" me. I reluctantly asked for a small trade. Nothing big, no color, just a sloppy sketch. And his reply STILL to this day rings in my ears. "I'd start off with an apology but after seeing your art, lol, i'm not sorry at all. No we cannot do a trade because your art skills are nowhere near mine and probably will never be. It would be in your best interest to not ever message any artist that surpasses you skill wise, for anything other than a commission or praise. That being said, thanks for watching me. I do appreciate that. Take care now".

As a 14 year old girl, I was pretty emotional already but that actually hurt. I received messages from "popufurs" like this but not to that extent. After that, I did recieve my own fan base after working very hard at art for a few years. And one day I received a message from that very artist ASKING ME for a trade! I had absolutely nothing to say to him except copy and pasting his own message back at him which I had saved. He said nothing more and went back to his disgusting ways, stepping on all those who appreciate ans raise him up.

People like that should not be praised. But im afraid its human nature. Its like that everywhere. I was just hoping that for once, here it wasn't. Thank you for this journal. You literally said everything I've been thinking and you were not afraid to say it. You're real and I appreciate that.

I come here to draw and to look at drawings other people do. Why do anything else really? The internet already has enough drama.
Good luck with your website community thing. But I think you should provide a working prototype before making plans that go so far.

You animate still picture's with a poor understanding of basic gravity and say child abuse builds character. Are you really sure you should be the role model this fandom deserves or is that your huge ego talking?

At least someone pointed this out.

are we talking just physical disciplining of a child that is acting out even after verbal warnings and scolding? or are we talking actual, pointless physical and mental abuse of a child because those are two different things.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jasonafe.....091010?lang=en

thank you for proving my point. At no point does he endorse actual abuse but he does say that children need discipline to grow up into healthy, law abiding adult. good job. you played yourself.

I wholeheartedly disagree with you but it's fine, i take it you never read the comic and just take his word for it like most of his fanbase, enjoy licking scalie ass

I read the comic. I also read all of Jasonafex's replies. None of them condoned child abuse.
Enjoy being a liar who has to twist things into untruths to fit them into their narrative.

....I am not seeing the promotion of child abuse.

I am not seeing child abuse either

Definitely no condoning of child abuse in that thread. You may be trapped in the perceptions of what constitutes abuse among those who value New Age Parenting practices; which have greatly misconstrued what abuse actually is.

Well if you have any suggestions feel free to say, because I haven't seen anyone else step up and say anything. Not to say nobody else has, of course, just that I have not seen. After all, the whole point of his post is that there needs to be MORE role-models, not just one

> Poor understanding of basic gravity

Subjective. If you don't like the content, why are you here? Clearly don't follow this account or can accurately even describe what it's content is.

> Child abuse builds character

True colors shown here with an obvious ad-hominem. That is not my quote but a Strawman. Anyone can take a quick glance at your profile and see the blatant e-begging, SJW favoritism and victimization rampant among toxic furries today. Rather than complaining about your parents kicking you out and how unfair that is, take some personal accountability. If you only have 10 euros to your name, grow up, get a job and contribute to society in meaningful ways. Hating popufurs is not going to solve your personal problems.

Please never have kids if you actually saying this unironically.

We will have kids and they won't be spoiled brats like you clearly are. Clean your room.

You don't know my private situation, all I can say is my parents threw a pregnant girl out on the street because she wanted an abortion. Also unironically quoting Jordan Peterson?

I think at this point it's safe to say because of your past and "mental issues" you have become ever so slightly too sensitive to "abuse".

lol are you fucking dumb or do you actually not see any abuse in throwing a pregnant girl out on the street?

I wasn't saying "abuse" talking about your experience. I might be missing information about how that came to be but it's definetely a bad move

Considering that girl is you is natural you'd feel it's abuse and would, quite frankly, be the least objective person here when making abuse accusations. You don't get to play the "but I'm pregnant" card when the whole reason for them kicking you out was over you wanting to terminate the pregnancy. It's as your side says with our free speech... we are not exempt from the consequences of that speech..just as you are not exempt from the consequences of your choice to abort their grandkid. That consequence was you were told to get out of their home.

Mind you, I'll defend your right to body autonomy but that only extends to any government punishment for that decision. Just as those that go against freedom of speech say.

Cease the means of npc straw mans please.

ok lol

Thank you kanye, very cool

"you make content I don't like and have opinions I disagree with, therefor your argument is invalid, especially after I point out a character flaw of yours"

....I think you should take a seat, sweetie.

Nah I just point it out BC it's funny lol

"I'm stirring the pot to get a reaction, basically I'm an attention whore."

there, I fixed it for you

If that makes you feel better about protecting your poor furry god then sure lol

well, considering I just follow Jasonafex for his art and animations, and you just projected out the wazoo, I'd say my assessment was spot on

also, obligatory reference based retort!

there's only one god, and he ain't a green raptor

Is that why you're fighting his battles for him?

"Is that why you're fighting battles for him"

Uhh, no, I do this sort of stuff out of boredom.
its greatly amusing to tear holes in faux outrage and attention whoring under the guise of social justice.

I mean, maaaaybe your argument might hold a semblance of water if I showed up in his other journal entries to wage battle in the comments.

as it stands, I kinda....don't

Are you calling me an sjw bc you disagree? That's some NPC shit right there.

> uses blatant strawman fallacy and takes something I said waaaay out of context
> pretends their argument to this point holds any water
> proceeds to unironically call me an NPC

umm...I've got some bad news for you.

I'm not licking a scalie's ass to own the libs

what a coincidence; Neither am I!

Hahaha holy damn, are you actually 12? Is there no end to your internal inconsistencies?

This!

I suppose I put myself in too much of a safe space to encounter the rougher part of this community. I don't online date, I don't buy art, I barely go to conventions, when I do it's with people I trust IRL. I also keep my furry stuff separate from my IRL life, only a handful that know me IRL know that I'm in the fandom, I just enjoy my privacy. Heck, I don't even know who many popufurs are, I didn't even know about Kero until I bumped into a Kothorix video on YouYube; I was re-watching the F-list Simulator videos when I saw his vid in the recommended. Fucked up shit, but yeah, there's fucked up people everywhere so I didn't really bat an eye. I just kinda expect the guy to be ousted and sent to jail. Anyways, I'm probably rambling! But yeah, the furry fandom has been around and no doubt always will be around no matter the company it keeps. It's up to people to moderate themselves, grow a thicker skin and just realize when shit isn't cool. In closing, I hope anyone that reads this has a nice day, peace 'n love!

<3

You. I like you.
I hope you have a wonderful life and you succeed in whatever you put your mind to. I wish there were more people like you around.

Aw, thank you, I appreciate your kind words and I wish 'ya the same!

<3

*huggles tightly* you have a good day and you never let anyon try to bring you down

YAFS will not help anything.

Just go to SF and be happier.

And more people suckered into debating/arguing...

Just as Jasonafex planned it to be. *Slow clap.*

Too true

Pro-tip: When someone starts talking about "the truth" and conspicuously references his or herself as a benchmark for credibility and moral rectitude, they're invariably an attention-whoring crock of shit with no compunctions against ethical degeneracy for the purpose of ego masturbation.

Maybe—just maybe—kothorix is just an asshole with a dishonestly polarizing opinion and a soap box to stand on, and is not in fact a furry messiah.

Describe a scenario in which someone speaks the truth that doesn't conform to your distrustful nature. Are you skeptical purely because it doesn't conform to your pre-existing beliefs?

Never heard of the Canary in the Coalmine before? If you want to find the truth as to who controls you, decipher who you can and cannot criticize.

Donald Trump donated truckloads of useful supplies in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. Done.

Skepticism is not a state of distrusting evidence. Skepticism is the demand for adequate proofs. The above example doesn't jive with my opinions about D.T., but the claims that he donated a truckload of Play-Doh didn't stand up to scrutiny so I had to accept what the evidence told me—that he chose the wrong damned box for his photo op. I think kothorix is full of it because he appears to be applying exceptions as the rule. I'm also skeptical because my life experience has taught me firsthand to recognize what self-delusion looks like—I've been this guy. He's cherry-picking. He doesn't realize that he's cherry-picking and/or bullshitting, but his opinions are formed and entrenched under a confirmation bias. This "two groups" thing is broadly insulting bullshit which discounts everyone who doesn't stand up to be counted in his two groups, and while I'm not conducting a survey I'm pretty sure that's most of us. I think we're mostly residing somewhere around "that happened and I hope appropriate steps are taken," and that's as far as it goes.

As to who you can or cannot criticize, I'd like to point out to you the mayhem and tin revolution you've been generating here coupled with the fact that you have not been banned. Apparently you can criticize the administration, if that's who you're referring to. And if you mean the SJW crowd, that shit is systemic to current western society. If you mean to fight it head on, then mind the pendulum and try to avoid becoming another social crybaby like MGTOW. You might do better to try a Trojan horse approach, though—applied with regard to ethics, mind you.

You're opinion on Koth is valid but subjective. I can't treat it as fact however since it's all projection from your own personal experience.

No-one is forcing you to conform to a 'two-groups' stereotype, I don't Identify with any group either. That doesn't mean we deny the fact that the furry community in it's current state is politically divisive, considering new rules are made to shut down the conversation if you announce you have right-wing beliefs that can be painted as 'alt'.

I cannot even communicate with these supposed 'alt-fur' personalities or interview them because association alone has been enough to ban a lot of users. This is fact, as they have disclosed their DMs and frustrations on Twitter. FA has decided they are the authority on politics just like Twitter and should not be surprised when users don't want any of it.

Offsite activity and personal associations aren't really FA's ethical jurisdiction, but I can see IMVU's reasoning; it's about self-protection. Anything related to hate speech is political and potentially legal napalm, and they don't want any of that getting on them. I think the entire western social environment could use a sensible and equitable adjustment to what constitutes "hate speech" (when a fast food chain has to censor the eggs in a salad ad because it 'triggers' vegans we've got a problem), but I don't have the gold so I don't make the rules.

Without stating your agreement or disagreement with the principles involved, what's an example of a right-wing belief that would be shut down for being unfairly labeled "alt"? Not necessarily your belief—just a belief. I'm having a hard time calibrating where you draw the line.

That's the entire issue, 'hate speech' is intentionally vague to that people can pander to any agenda that warrants them power. The exact same behavior perpetuated by the left is let slide, such as domestic terrorism. Antifa is allowed here with open arms because they are left, despite actually assaulting civilians and disrupting the peace.

I'm not here to define hate speech, I'm here to protest it entirely because it violates free speech. Bad ideas will diffuse themselves by normal means of debate or public scrutiny.

Dude. First off, I'm hard left. As in, 'Mahatma Gandhi eats my dust' hard. And yet here I am, taking a nuanced position and attempting two-way communication. Almost like I'm a person. Don't throw "left" around in the exact way and with the same vitriol that you hate people throwing "alt-right" around. Not cool.

There's freedom of speech, and then there's freedom of speech. It's supposed to protect people's rights, not to enable harassment or organized abuse. Like someone or other once said, and history can't quite seem to agree on who, "My right to swing my fist ends where your nose begins." Besides which, you're smart enough to know that "bad ideas" will not "defuse themselves" via discussion. The evidence against that is pervasive in our society, from international hate organizations all the way down to petty cliques. It's human nature to form tribes and seek enemies, and we're nowhere close to giving up primitivism as a society yet. We need a baseline until such a time as we can develop a universal standard of personal decency.

You seem awfully evasive on the subject of partisan censorship and what defines it. I'm trying to figure out what to make of that.

> Dude. First off, I'm hard left.

And I'm a classic liberal, that puts me on the left as well, your point? If we are speaking about the same demographic of radical SJWs, why use the appeal to emotion fallacy? Do you identify with them?

> There's freedom of speech, and then there's freedom of speech.
You either typo d here or you think 'Free Speech' has multiple subjective meanings, it doesn't. 'Freedom of speech is a principle that supports the freedom of an individual or a community to articulate their opinions and ideas without fear of retaliation, censorship, or legal sanction.' Censorship directly violates this principle.

Tribalism is bred when there ISN'T discourse, as it becomes easy to straw-man your opposition all the way down to pure evil. Look at the Munk Political Correctness debate, favor-ability towards PC ideals dropped by a third just by exposing those ideas to a vacuum instead of an echo-chamber. Those who resort to cliques are perpetuating the same behavior, placing their ideals in a bubble to protect them.

> You seem awfully evasive on the subject of partisan censorship and what defines it
That statement is an Oxymoron. I am very clearly anti-censorship, there is nothing evasive about it. Calling out Totalitarians has been my premise this entire time, don't shift the goalposts.

"And I'm a classic liberal, that puts me on the left as well, your point?"

My point is that for a liberal you sure like to indiscriminately slam liberals, and only liberals.

I think I'm putting more effort into this... 'debate' than it deserves. You're blowing seventeen kinds of dirty smoke and clearly have no interest in honest discourse. I don't think I can make any argument stronger than that.

That is what a liberal is MEANT to do, encourage debate push for true progressive policy. Postmodernists are more regressive with their ideology then they would like to admit. I am more then happy to debate conservatives, they just often comply with civility, meaning things get resolved quickly and everyone moves on. The left currently hand their fingers in their ears, insisting they already have the world figured out, despite being primarily college students and are merely parroting what they have heard from their liberal professors, or from left-wing media. No debate is taken place to challenge them.

It really sucks to see such a rift forming in the community. I hope the new website will be self sustaining when it is completed. Good luck!

imagine being a furry in 2018.

Imagine being a shark in 2018.

Imagne shitposting on FA 2018 and not being banned on day 1

I doubt it, it'll collapse under the same issues present in the mainstream furry community - people wanting something and using anyone they can do get it. Sadly, it's human nature.

This is unfortunately not happening only in the furry community. It's taking place on a vast, multinational scale right now. We live in dark days. Extreme viewpoints on both sides have taken hold, ousting more moderate, rational ones on both sides of the left/right spectrum, and this impacts everything it touches. But if anything should be said, it is that this comes and goes in phases. We live in dark days now, but in time it will smooth out, all we must do is do the best we can with what we have available to us, be good to those we care about and try to just do what we think is the right thing, until the tide turns back toward sanity once again.

Just survive.

It is tough for people to notice I am a fur who is kind loving and caring but I do my best on that I am one who tries to be the good example to the community yes it is tough but I'd rather keeps proving that I am a cupcake fennec with a heart of gold than be a big meanie. I will not lie yes I had to deal with some people trying to make me seem like I am a bad person but I always do what I can to show differently. I never like doing the bandwagon thing cuz I keep to myself and mind my own business. But yeah I refuse to let anyone bring me down or make me change who I am.

I've lost count of the amount of people who used to be friends and then suddenly got a whiff of popularity and suddenly abandoned me. There is a group on FA (which I will not name) that no less than 6 people I used to talk to joined and they all up and stopped talking. Just because I had nothing offer except my friendship. I'm most certainly a fringe, heck I don't even class myself as a furry anymore. I class myself as a fur-fan

Oh, you too? If there's one thing this community has taught me over the years, it's that you should never trust anyone to stick around unless you have something of value to offer them. If you're not popular, if you don't purchase art constantly, if you don't ERP with them, they'll easily abandon you for someone who can and will give them what they want.

Of all the people I've met in this community over the past 7 years, I've maintained contact with 3 people that have lasted over a year. Everyone else vanishes anywhere from hours to days to weeks later to chase the next big thing that makes their dick hard.

Exactly, it's happened so many times it makes be weary of anyone wanting to make contact. I made friends with someone a few years back and we got on well. Then suddenly he switched; he became cold, distant, barely speaking. Found out he'd become the pet of a big artist popufur and obviously meant I didn't matter. That pet relationship didn't last long but he still remained cold and distant, saying he wasn't in the mud or busy. Then I found out he wasn't doing that to others, just me, and that he was hanging around with other popufur artists. So much for that.

I call it the switch friendship; one day everything is fine and suddenly it changes to the off position like a light switch. And the most common reasons is that either they couldn't get what they wanted from me, got what they wanted and didn't need me anymore or something better came along.

Same here :( I used to draw for fun and for my friends. I taught them how to be better at drawing and how to advertise better, but as soon as they got successful and socially popular they discarded and replaced me for someone more local and popular. It hurts.

In a nutshell: after all that supposed support, ive ended up to be a nobody again. :S

I had someone destroy my reputation about 8 years ago because I got into a relationship and wouldn't give him any attention. Turned a lot of people against me, including people I'd known for years - shows how close a friendship it was. I ended up a nobody again. Not quite the same situation as yours but I know the feeling.

Jeepers are thing that dire!? Phew, good thing that I don't care about being famous or any of that stuff. I just get coms for the love of the characters I, along with others have made.

The irony of you talking about popufurs and toxicity in the fandom

Let me guess, because I don't stroke your confirmation bias that woke=good?

Your follower list is public, the only popufurs you follow are those that match your ideology. Pride yourself on intolerance and you'll struggle to shake the toxic SJW stereotype.

No, you’re too busy stroking your own ego.

I follow folks who don’t espouse racism and transphobia uner the guise of freeze peaches. You’re the epitomy of a reactionary anti-sjw to the point of absurdity and matching your own dumbass alt-right NPC memes who just regurgitates everything remotely from other anti-progressive personalities no matter how stupid. It’s a shame you had to drag your fiancé to your level in cancerous political discussion, even though you both and your hugbox circle of supporters will blame everyone but yourselves.

Also the most quickest segway from the topic of the journal into going to their patreon to support their new furry website project. Hmmmm very interesting

Well yeah. If you look at most fringe political companies/blogs most of the content follows a basic outline.
1) Clickbaity / Drama / Outrage title
2) Start the article/content with it. Then ramp it up. Get the viewer/listener outraged.
3) "Buy my book" at the bottom to help combat the issue.

You can find the same formula with the NRA, Infowars, Breitbart, Stormfront etc etc.

Right? This made my night.

So you are planning to build a website? you have any sort of plans or what? I mean I would like to help but I much rather give my money to something that at least has a name behind it.

We do, but formalities won't be announced until proof of concept. We're taking it very seriously with lawyers, NDAs etc. Those contributing will be legally accountable if they bail or sabotage the project for personal gain.

I hope you get the ball rolling soon. Best of luck.

Yeah. There sure is a lot of stuff that sucks about furry-dom.

I've considered it carefully, though, and I think it's still worth it to me and there's nothing that I can't deal with.

Excited to see what happens with the project :3

The popular will always override common sense. That or people willingly sacrifice common sense, I mean people are idiots nowadays. It's not just furries but every aspect of life. If you're not the majority, you get lynched. Trust me, I've experienced that first hand a lot. During my college years, I made several unpopular predictions based on patterns I saw. Even so, I was correct but nobody listened as it was against their nature to consider the unpleasant and fucked up truth.

It's why I still believe this fandom can be saved. Why I believe that the bandwagons can be razed and the furries riding them converted. Humanity has become a swirling vortex of suicide cults: They lure in people before self destructing. But I believe the right icon, the right symbol of hope, could bring people together again for good. Look at the Manchester Bombings. People looked out for strangers that night. 9/11, people worked in hordes to try and help. Despite the chaos, no matter how much evil exists in the world, even a jaded sociopath like me can see that good exists still. Not to subdue the bad, as many think, but to wipe it away when it becomes too much, like we're pulled out of the water as we start to drown. Just one symbol, one person, even one act, can change the hearts and minds of everyone. Granted, the acts are often only fictional in nature, but it doesn't mean we give up.

Hell... I was gonna try once I got known as a furry youtuber. "Stop FIGHTING. Start UNITING", that's was my slogan. Cos we'll never all get along, but we can all shut our gobs and accept that other people might like what we hate.

But, given I'm a nobody and people see me as a monster, I doubt I could help like that.

Still believe in the good of the fandom though. I'm stubborn like that.

Bandwagoneering is what furries do best, even more so than porn.

Honestly in my experience it's people that scream "What about the Alt-Left!?" and bash anyone that disagrees with them an SJW that turn out to be the narcissists. And more of my friends, have been harassed or hurt by Alt-Right/Neo-Nazi people. When I was working with the DNC to register people to vote in 2016, a guy punched one of our volunteers in the face and broke her nose. Just for asking if he was registered. And even though we worked for the DNC we legally had to register you the party you choose and turn it in. And for every what about this so-so on the left that did this, or 'oh did you hear what that so-so liberal said' I can find TWO or more examples of someone on the right doing or saying worse things.


As far as coming together, I don't think it's possible, when you have one side that'd gladly kill everyone who's not white/Christian/right wing/moral majority/anti-abortion/anti-LGBTQ or is at least 'silent' about it. While the other side if they peacefully protest, they are limp wristed cucks to be thrown out of helicopters, OR if they fight back they are pseudo-paramilitary commies waiting in the bushes to launch a coup de ta. So it's a no win situation. And then you have the people that say they are 'centrists' and well, those same center line people said "Hey Hitler it's okay if you want to invade Poland, if it'll appease you and stop your warmongering go right ahead."


And make no mistake, those furries that are on the right wing of things on the political spectrum, your heroes on Infowars, Fox News, the ones with the swastika arm bands and white sheets... they'd gladly skin you alive and burn you to death in your own suit (if you have one) just for being a furry. To them you're a godless abomination and sexual freak. If the Alt-right wins out in the long run, they ain't going to stop and ask who you voted for.

We have a strong representation of minorities and LGBTQ people in the furry fandom, BECAUSE of our accepting nature. Especially of things considered 'fringe' by most of 'normal' (whatever you want to define that as) society.

See, you're being part of the problem here, for thinking that everyone "on the other side" is evil and horrible and that your way is the only right way.
I was going to go on but I looked at your profile and I see you're an antifa person, that explains it.

If I saw or experienced any 'evidence' to the contrary I'd be inclined to listen, but of the people I've encountered on the right, from family to people I know or could count as friends there's maybe a handful, 4-5 I'd trust. MOST right wing people I've met in person and lived with, and been around ARE misogynistic, racist, homophobic, transphobic, encouragers of violence, and they wrap the flag around their gun and bible and will shove it in your face if you don't agree. And if they AREN'T any of the above, they are keen to sit on the sidelines and play the 'I'm on no side' card. Which is just code for 'I don't care as long as it doesn't happen to me.' And I certainly haven't seen any 'online' that turn out to be kind hearted in any way shape or form.

And I'm damn proud to be Antifa, the alternative ( fascism) is not appeasing to my morality.

Yet in contrast, I've not met one 'liberal' person in my circle, either in real life or online that's given me a reason not to trust them, nor have they hurt me, or my loved ones.


And this is just a small sample of personal experience. The evidence worldwide that can be stacked damning the right or left wings is so unbalanced it's fairer to compare the evils of the right wing to Mt. Everest, and the evils on the left to an ant hill.

Oh, you're a terrorist.

Cool.

Butthurt much?

"Furries are already starved of genuine people at the top and I'm afraid if I'm gone there's almost nothing left."

Your assumption of people here really bothers me. I know some fantastic, wonderful furries who are popular and loving and giving of their time and efforts. I have had the pleasure of dining and chatting with some of them at conventions through the years.

Trust me, Jason, there are a lot of us. =( A lot more than you could ever imagine.

So wait......... is that bad or good??? Oh and by the wy, is 4chan a lot like 18chan because it looks like the site 18chan is not working not that I like it No well I don't know I just don't know what it looks like.

It's good that there are a lot of popular, but well respected and generous furries in this fandom, Drack. Jasona simply doesn't agree with that, and he's allowed his opinion.

I'm skeptical considering you openly shouted your support of  n-ekodere, who has already been exposed in this comment chain for being toxic. Which views of theirs do you relate to and consider respectable?

I believe everyone should have a voice and an opinion.
I'm allowing you yours, even if it might not be, shall we say, well thought out?
As far as taking sides?
Jasona, I'm all for people doing so if they want to.
I'm happy to see you've spread your wings and consider yourself an integral part of the fandom.
I'm even happy you wish to bring a new light to the fandom, and allow free speech in all its forms.
I told someone you consider as "toxic" that he has people who care about him. That's it.

What more do you want from me...? *^^*

To actually form an opinion rather than dodging the question and riding the fence trying to please everyone.

If you actually care for free speech, you would defend it. Current administration who has condoned not only censorship, but domestic terrorism. You're language implies that you do not believe their are toxic users on FA, or you deem them to be the people creating solutions.

You are welcome to have that opinion, but actually state the matter with assertion so it can be properly challenged. The alternative merely insults the intelligence of others.

I am all for free speech. My thesis in college before you were even born was about censorship in comic books through the years. Don't ever question my belief in the rights we should all have. My problem with free speech is when it leads to hate, violence, division, or even death. Then it can no longer be free, because it is jeopardizing the lives of others. People that do that have already proven when they are capable of, people like Dylan Roof, James Fields, or Robert Bowers. They too elected to exercise a much different right: the right to act, with horrific consequences.

I'm against fascism, in all its forms. Those that wish to bring fascism or white supremacy or any other nonsense ideals that can generate the death of innocent people need to be kept away at all costs. Maybe you don't understand that; maybe you feel the right to free speech should be given to everyone, and I agree.

But not everyone deserves that right. ^^

As far as my saying there aren't toxic people in this fandom, um, I never ever said that. I said there were very popular, loving and friendly, giving furries in this fandom. I never once called anyone toxic.

You did. ^^

Do I believe there are toxic furries in this fandom, of course I do. No fandom can exist without toxicity of some kind. =(

But I maintain here and now, the warm, positive, loving, and giving part of this fandom is alive and well, and astronomically larger than the bad part. ^^

Wouldn't you agree?

No, you don't solve problems with pleasantries and salad dressing. Practical solutions are necessary, to get there is requires transparent discussion.

You'd need to be at the minimum 45+ to be studying censorship before my birth. Free speech is not responsible for violent acts, the lack of civil means to diffuse tensions is. All you accomplish with censorship is radicalizing both sides. Those afflicted will feel scorned by society and will be more prone to act, the opposition ends up lashing out on society on an endless witch-hunt because they have scrubbed away any normal means of identifying their antagonists. Freedom of speech does not correlate to a freedom of consequence, that is a fallacy of equivalence.

94% of the US population is against fascism. You accomplish very little from virtue signalling besides disrupting the lives of people minding their own business. Totalitarianism, Communism, Censorship and Social Justice are the exact tools of actual Nazis. ""Fascists of the future will call themselves anti-fascists.". Antifa has accomplished nothing so far beyond domestic terrorism and assaulting their own people.

The first step to solving toxicity is to self-reflect and consider if you are part of the problem.

I'm older than 45, so let's end that little debate right there. I know more than you, I've studied more than you, and I've surely lived more experiences than you. I also have two Masters degrees. One is in history, and I took a minor in, amazingly enough, cults and their impacts on society.

That said, fascism is a cult. There is no other name for it. It is mostly a group of rejected people who feel life hasn't been fun for them, so they reach for whatever provides them some kind of hope, a sense of well-being, an opportunity to become part of a group. That's all it is, it's all it's ever been The roots of fascism began in Italy under Mussolini, who promised good times for his people under the guise of anti-socialism. Basically, he said socialism was evil, and got enough people behind him to agree. Maybe they too were looking for hope and better times after the horrors of World War 1.

If 94% of this country is against fascism, then that's fantastic. I'm not sure where you got a figure like that but okay. And like I said, everyone has the freedom of speech - but some of us don't deserve it.

I think all of this stems from you being upset that Neo-Nazi furries and others were purged from this place, and you felt, like some sort of leader, you can promise hope and better times for this disenchanted few.

I also realize you're one that is never going to look at anyone else's side than your own. I feel a little insulted that you might assume I'm toxic.

I want to leave you with one more comment. I'm not toxic. I'm tolerant and accepting of most of what I see in this fandom - probably more so than you. If I've been decent enough not to attack anti-furs - what gives you the reason to attack me as being anti-fascist...?

One more note for anyone else reading this thread, and this is important. Jasona is not your friend. He is not going to lead you to a greener pasture. He promises better times - but it's going to cost plenty. He's going to try to convince a lot of people that there is too much division here. There's NOT. *^^*

I don't see division at all in this fandom. I don't see a lot of bad things. I don't see a lot of attacks. But I do see a lot of hurt feelings over  dragoneer's decision to purge a lot of accounts he felt were entrenched in hate. Was it necessary? I don't know. It depends on those accounts and what they had in them. We live in a world where hate is all around us. We're supposed to feel SAFE in the community, online and off. I surely would not feel safe at all if I lived next door to a Nazi or WS or whatever.

We have the right to feel safe, no matter what. People scream about freedom of speech but...what about the right for citizens to feel safe? That falls under "the pursuit of happiness", by the way.

I think I'm done, Jasona. You're not going to listen to anything I say because, well, I've met people like you. Young kids who have the future ahead of them, and they feel invincible, like they own the whole world. And damn anyone that gets in their way. I appreciate the debate but it's tiring. I'm supposed to resting my hand after surgery and I've got a lot of story commissions to get through.

Block me if it seems advisable, but I do promise not to comment anymore, if you'll grant me the same. *^^*

Thanks to everyone else too, for reading this.

> I know more than you

Subjective. To me you are clearly out of touch in regards to social matters of today, certainly not an authority as you can't even decipher what characteristics are actual fascism, let alone the trending postmodernism of 2018. To admit fascism has more in common with regressive left Totalitarianism then the conservatives you are so keen to demonize would go against the narrative you clearly have become very comfortable with. You sound like a Marxist that is still holding on to an ideology that will never bare fruit.

You are trying to claim Nazis inherently are anti-socialism, despite Nazi itself literally being an abbreviation of National Socialist. I am not the lead of any Identity Group, I am an individual putting my interests first. Trying to lump me in with your 'fascists' is exactly why I am highly skeptical of your sense of authority. I am a classical liberal, which if you weren't aware is the closest wing to the radical 6 of hardcore liberals. That's why I gave you the 94% to see if you would catch on. Free speech doesn't exist to protect your speech, it exists to defend speech you disagree with. That is why companies are getting in so much heat for censoring conservative voices. You are highly ignorant if you can never comprehend a situation in which your own speech is threatened. Look to countries that have already adopted super governments such as North Korea. Say the wrong thing about the authority and not only you, but three generations of the family are either slaved or killed.

I have no 'hurt feelings' over Dragoneer, I think he's incompetent. Interviewing him myself and the obvious state of FA should speak volumes of such. He's decided that his core values lay in virtue signalling for a domestic terrorist group is more important than improving the platform. Do you feel safe associating with Antifa, the same group assaulting their own voters from behind, cracking their skulls open and disrupting the peace fighting these fantasy 'facists' you claim are a real threat to society? Those making it unsafe are ideologues like you who can't debate.

If you want an example of someone who has no empathy or tolerance for anyone other then those that already agree with, look at this user. There is good reason they discourage discourse, they have grown very comfortable virtue signalling in their bubble. Will have plenty of opportunities to keep that up here on FA.

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoooooa, calm down there dude she's not looking for a fight or anything she's a good woman she doesn't like any toxicity or any of the fact that matter,... but you don't have to make it hard on herself to know this she's clearly not trying to pick a fight against you,......... look man I already have you on my watch list and you're a good artist as well as her, she has a comic up and running and it's still alive today,.............. look............. I know this bandwagon effect doesn't suit well for the community and I don't like toxic people who are over aboard the furry community but man dude you got to apologize to her she didn't mean any of this even if she said something over on her Channel I saw people reacted that there are most good people in the world love this community and there are some bad people in the furry and they hide themselves identity secret so they don't want other people to notice them just so they can ruin this community,..... not when they're spectators the authorities of this site so please man I don't want to look seeing two people fight not healthy for anyone who doesn't like the thing that they don't want, even if each side of the person is opposite and different from their perspective you both are right, so please............ no more fighting

“To me you are clearly out of touch in regards to social matters of today,”

And most other people can say the same about you.

“certainly not an authority as you can't even decipher what characteristics are actual fascism, let alone the trending postmodernism of 2018. To admit fascism has more in common with regressive left Totalitarianism then the conservatives you are so keen to demonize would go against the narrative you clearly have become very comfortable with. You sound like a Marxist that is still holding on to an ideology that will never bare fruit.”

Says the dude who parrots Jordan Peterson and other anti-progressive talking points without remotely understanding what he’s talking about, while simultaneously calling those who disagree with him NPCs.

“You are trying to claim Nazis inherently are anti-socialism, despite Nazi itself literally being an abbreviation of National Socialist.”

I guess if you ignore the ultra-nationalism, social conservatism, anti-egalitarianism, flat out fascists the Nazis were, and basically anything the Nazis actually did, then sure, they might have been socialist s because it was in their name. According to your logic, North Korea is a democracy.

“Free speech doesn't exist to protect your speech, it exists to defend speech you disagree with.”

Citation please, and not your feelings.

“He's decided that his core values lay in virtue signalling for a domestic terrorist group is more important than improving the platform. Do you feel safe associating with Antifa, the same group assaulting their own voters from behind, cracking their skulls open and disrupting the peace fighting these fantasy 'facists' you claim are a real threat to society? Those making it unsafe are ideologues like you who can't debate.”

Do you feel safe associating with the alt-right via Gab, the same group committing mass shootings, killing poc and supporting the brutality inflicted on those not a part of their group and minorities? Those making it unsafe are idealogues like you who ignore them or ‘debate’ in bad faith and who act as useful idiots for them.

I’m sorry, when have you EVER shown empathy for literally anyone not in your hugbox to some degree? You’re the epitomy of bad faith incarnate and only seek to boost your own ego by making a complete ass out of yourself and dragging your fiancé with you in this hole of stupidity.

Hitler used the word "socialist" in their name just to look good to outsiders and lure in unsuspecting people, similar to how North Korea deceptively calls itself the "Democratic People's Republic of Korea." In Mein Kampf (chapter 7, "The Conflict with the Red Forces") Hitler wrote they used bolshevik colors such as red in their flags to confuse outsiders to their actual intentions, and to irritate actual left wingers opposed to the Nazis.
http://shoqvalue.com/the-nazis-were-leftists-lie
Using the name "socialist" was just a means to an end for the Nazis, and they started purging all left wing opposition once Hitler came to power since they regarded Bolshevism and Marxism as Jewish inventions. Socialists and communists were some of the first people the Nazis threw in their death camps. Socialists who had joined the Nazi party years earlier eg Gregor Strasser, were killed during the Knight of the Long Knights. Trade unions were also disbanded and labor strikes were made illegal, a very anti-socialist thing to do.
https://spartacus-educational.com/GERMANtradeU.htm
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.or.....line-of-dachau
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.or.....he-long-knives
https://encyclopedi a.ushmm.org/content/en/article/prisoners-of-the-camps
https://www.thoughtco.com/was-adolf.....ialist-1221367
Also, Nazi sympathizers in America such as Catholic priest Fr. Charles Coughlin and the German American Bunde hated communists and socialists. A 1939 German American Bund rally in Madison Square Garden was protested by socialists. If the Nazis were socialist, why would socialist movements at that time be opposed to them and why would the Nazis attract people very strongly anti-socialist and anti-left in general?
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/cont.....les-e-coughlin
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/cont.....-american-bund
https://longreads.com/2017/08/14/a-look-back-at- the-1939-pro-nazi-rally-at-madison-square-garden-and-the-protestors-who-organized-against-it/
See also this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUFvG4RpwJI

If you think the Nazi's were socialist because it was in the name, you're going to be in a state of shock when you find out what a titmouse is.

Can’t we just fap in peace :v. I’ve been on fa for years but all I’ve been here for is the porn. I avoid most conversations on here for the reasons you said, that they’re all degenerates who are all toxic fuckers. I hope this doesn’t make you leave FA forever cause I’ve been a fan of your work for a long time.

I liked Jasonafex more when he made art. :( Sad that politics get into everything these days.

Seriously. This journal criticizes virtual signaling and outrage stoking, when it is 100% just virtual signaling and outrage stoking in the opposite direction. It's like....do you not see the hypocrisy....?

At least they are taking action against a perceived problem instead of sitting around and complaining.
But that could describe a lot of groups these days. One could say the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

There is no blame, all must accept responsibility.

The actions are "give me money so I can make yet another me too site where we'll swear there'll be no problems but problems are guaranteed." That's not a solution.

The Tu quoque fallacy can be used against literally anything. 'Avoiding having to engage with criticism by turning it back on the accuser - answering criticism with criticism.'

Want the community to be better? Acknowledge the problem and discuss solutions. As mentioned, I'm actually doing something about it.

But all you're trying to do is drum up outrage against the "community" for financial gain. It's literally "Look at these horrible things aren't you mad? Then give me money."

Your actions deserve as much criticism as the people you're rallying against at this point, and the moderates can see that.

Again, problems, not solutions.

Do you expect a new platform to pop out of thin air without labor, exposure or financing? Do you want me to incur not only the business risk all by myself, but also the entire $60,000 setup cost just so you don't feel offended?

If you're willing to be a substantial investor, I will gladly remove the need for a Patreon link.

I'm saying the platform will be a failure and you should rethink your entire approach. I can tell you exactly why.

1. If one is to try and break into an established space in any market for any product, especially one that is free like social media, saying or even producing a platform that is "better" (better in whatever way you want to claim) is not enough to dislodge the established audience. There is a graveyard a mile long of people who made a "better" Facebook, or World of Warcraft, or Steam, or yes, FurAffinity. Because these type of platforms are about audience and momentum as much as they are about features. Most people don't really care that FA has antiquated design in a few areas, because it works for their use case, whether posting or viewing. Your platform won't get these people who are not monumentally dissatisfied to truly switch. The average viewer and the average poster absolutely hate having to keep up with multiple sites, you hear about this constantly. Having everything in one place is to everyone's benefit from a curation, to a discoverability, to a social standpoint. That's why these established platforms have near unstoppable momentum.

2. Trailing point 1, a platform whose main feature is "free speech" compared to other platforms will attract the following kind of people.
A. The people who actually think your platform is better enough that they want to use it instead of the established platform. This group is very small as just explained.
B. The people who have reached a point for whatever reason that they are fed up with the established platform. This group is similarly small, but very loud so you might be fooled into thinking they are not small. (How did that Weasyl exodus go again? I think exactly two of the artists I follow actually left)
C. And the vast majority of people who will join your new platform - the people who were banned for legitimate reasons from all the other platforms.

You cannot build your audience with group C - they are the absolute dregs of the internet and will make the user experience absolutely intolerable for the well adjusted users. This is why Gab is a failure. Anyone else thinking about joining your platform will see the kinds of people who use it and will not be willing to interact with such trash or expose themselves to the consequences of allowing them free reign. Your platform will be filled with people insulting each other, followed by targeted harassment spilling over into real life. Others will point to these people as representative of your platform, and unlike something like Facebook who can say "yeah no there's tons of other people who don't act like this these are a very small portion of the userbase and we ban these people" - they'll actually be right.

3. As a consequence, your platform will have to moderate or face utter chaos followed by your ISP kicking you to the curb, as no well adjusted person would stand for this kind of behavior. And once you do that, your platform is no longer a free speech zone. Those users who joined for "free speech" will immediately turn on you, concern trolling about how you've betrayed your mission statement and all other sorts of idiocy when they just wanted free reign to be a piece of shit to other human beings. (Let's not even mention the people who will join because they actually hate furries and want "freedom of speech" to tell the furries all about it. You want those people on your platform??) And of course, where the line is drawn will be constantly criticized as one person's insult is another's harassment. You can say "Well our moderation policies would be better" but every single new platform in the history of mankind started with that as a goal.

So now you're back to where you started. Another me too platform hated by its users that didn't get traction, and you're out a whole bunch of money. I recommend you save your cash instead.

1.) You greatly underestimate the amount of people tired of FA and/or it's social politics. Other furry platforms to date are different flavors of the exact same thing. Furry Network was dead on arrival because it failed to have a reason to exist. Was just Art-station + FA. It even had a shameless FA importer. I am not marketing this platform as an "FA Killer', it is it's own entity and wont people exclusively to hardcore furries. It's for the fringe.

2.) Free speech is a standard all platforms should have, not a feature. There are far many more elements at place then just speech. Feature sets that are evident on other platforms that have become wildly successful in recent years. Think Discord, it's a one-stop shop. I am not relying on FA users to bolster it's numbers. Those that want a terrible browsing experience can stay here.
You also just made up some false accusations towards Gab in an attempt to defend your argument. They are not failing financially, they were no-platforms by silicone valley in vein attempt to snuff out a potential bipartisan competitor. They are scared of Gab, else they wouldn't go to such lengths to damage their own reputations in hopes to take it down.

If you honestly believe the only people that would use Gab are degenerates, then you need to take a long hard look at the current state of Twitter. Free speech doesn't invite chaos, open communication is actually how you diffuse hostility. In the event of targeted harassment, doxxing or threats, those are illegal and are not protected by free speech. Gab has the exact same rules. In order to do any of them, you need to deny someone else of their speech. That's why Totalitarians get such a boner over censorship, they want information to only travel in one direction

I appreciate your concerns but honestly if you can't see who would be interested in such a thing, then it bares no threat to you.

"If you honestly believe the only people that would use Gab are degenerates"

You appear to have missed my point entirely, and also why Gab is a failure that has been delisted over and over by ISPs and payment processors. It sure as hell isn't because they're afraid of it as a competitor. It's the audience it attracted and the unwillingness of the platform to moderate such audience. That you inexplicably attempt to deny this in the face of reality baffles me. Yes Twitter is shit, but a platform that contains mostly the people banned from Twitter is shittier shit, purely because the audience is shittier shit.

If you're about to take the same approach, you too are destined for failure.

That is the narrative the left would like you to believe but abhorrently false. The exact same behavior has been tenfold on Twitter, it's simply a no-platform campaign by the elites to snuff out competition. I agree, this new platform will get the same kind of smear campaign thrown against it because Totalitarians have a censorship boner. That's why I waited to see how the whole Gab thing would resolve before getting committed.

"That is the narrative the left would like you to believe..."

When you think everyone but you is wrong and/or in on some kind of conspiracy constructed by "the elites" you've officially lost me.

https://xkcd.com/610/

Best of luck on your platform, but this is where I leave the JA train.

-"Dude, imagine a culture war, but both sides dress up in weird animal costumes".

-"Nah, that'll never happen".

-*Puts on a dog costume with a bondage harness* "Hold my beer!".

The world is full of stupid people and ideas this year.. Via the condom challenge for one

I'm unfortunately not in a position to offer any monetary support right now, but I'll definitely be keeping an eye on this and I really, really hope you succeed.

Also, the comments on this journal entry are infuriatingly amusing. So many people attacking you for not following their religion! It's delicious with a bitter aftertaste.

It's a shame how tolerence and open-mindedness are lacking. It's part of the reason I haven't come out as a furry or bi because of it. The only people who do know are some ex-coworkers that were open-minded and tolerant, despite the popular opinion of my town I lived in. I think this is partially because of us all working the closing shift at a fast food place, and I'm sure you'd understand that monotony can get boring as hell.

Anywho, it's people like you, Kothorix, BetaEtaDelota, and Unimaginatively Imaginative who've really gotten me into the fandom recently. I've been kind of binging Cuckshack, am quite sure I have watched most of Kothorix's video's, and have even taken a pencil to paper and started drawing a bit. I see you guys and think "Hell, they can do it, why can't I?"

So I guess here I am now. Doing what I thought I couldn't do. Although my artisanship still needs some practice. Might throw my latest drawing in my scraps and start working on a sona. XD

>popfurs are corrupt
>I'm the only good guy
>gibe money pls

Strawman fallacy- Misrepresenting someone's argument to make it easier to attack.

I'm not attacking anyone, I don't take side in this thing. I just disagree with your bleak depiction of the fandom.

I just lay low and ignore this. Where the pretty art of anthro girls goes, I go as well. To hell with all of this vanity, greed and groupthink alike. I show up for the escapism and nothing more.

Not even furry fandom are safe from those woke morons, sheesh can we just enjoy what we like to do without being judge and condemned by a goddamn angry hive minded mob is like they don't have a damn conscience anymore is so amazingly stupid.

I have no idea what this even is really about, though to be honest I went "nope, fuck this shit, I'm out" when there was this controversy a couple of years ago about people in fur suits literally wearing red banded logos on their upper arms (I mean, it wasn't a swastika, but you'd have to be ignorant or stupid if you fail to see it might cause a problem). I'm not sure if that was before or after The Ranting Gryphon was unceremoniously ejected from performing at cons.
Pretty much became fringe then, just admiring the art at a safe distance.

it must be nice to be able to waste hours daily ranting at strangers on the internet, I wish I had that kind of free time jfc

> Made an even longer journal a day ago
> Replies to every single comment
> Only got 3


Salty.

'cause that's relevant!

I normally like rarely give my opinion in stuff like this but I do once in a while. I agree a lot with Jason on what he is trying to say. Why do I agree its because there's plenty of bad shit in this world in plenty of other communities including this one. There's one thing many people hate about having in this world and that is change once they have something they are comfortable with they stick to it like glue and paper. Jason wants to make that change to try help in anyway that is possible by his own means to come up with solutions to these problems. Will some of these solutions work maybe they will or maybe they wont I can't say nor tell the future but I give Jason a lot respect to go out of the way with a group of others that want to help this project along if I'm correct. I see it like this I'm throwing a FullMetal Alchemist reference in. Its like the equivalent of exchange. The only way you will get the change you want is putting the same amount of work into that change to have it occur in the form and shape that you want it to be in. Jason is putting that effort in as much as he can humanely with the help of anyone else that is willing to help make this project come true. Furry drama, any kind of drama is not funn it happens be we all deserve to hear whats true and whats not even if the truth is like being zapped by a lightning bolt and hurts forever. Would your rather be able to hear what is real or have something censored and spun around in a different way? I am not trying to start any shit or arguments or debates I just thought I'd put my own thoughts out there because why not and that this is something I'd like to get behind with Jason and help out even if I could I'd rather at least give some kind of support that his could go well and help make some changes that could better the furry community as a whole.

wait what. did i read that right? you and korthorix had a falling out? thought you were friends. and if you were damn that sucks. and i understand what your saying it is quite the problem with everything

among other people you had falling out with

Me and Koth had no falling out, we just took different approaches to the furry community situation. He bowed out, I went full bungus.

I have lots of friends that aren't exactly like me, that's what respect is.

fair enough and point taken. good to know.

Actual mad props to jason for not censoring 95% of the autism unlike dem antifa posts lol

If we're being honest, I've had the impression for a very long time that the Twitter Furries aren't the same furries that exist elsewhere.

A separate subspecies, if you will. One that runs on hate and vitriol vs acceptance and tolerance

You, asking for money again? Haaha... go back to stealing money from your Patreon supporters while not delivering anything.

Stuff like this is exactly why I don't go out of my little bubble too much in this fandom tbh.
As well as why I don't branch out to things like twitter :<

In all honesty, I never did understand that. People apply all this value to 'popularity' base on the number of people following someone. The sad part is, I imagine they only really know a handful of the people, but it's still so important to get more and more. It's a little strange to me is all.