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The Strange Atmosphere of FWA

By Boneitis, 2 years ago

Weird title right? I'll get right into it, don't worry.

So I was at FWA, Dealer's Room as usual, and things seemed very normal; as normal as a convention full of people engaged in a massive game of make believe can be. During a lull in the crowd I made my way quickly around the room to see the rest of the Dealer's room and say hi to people and publishers I know. I like to say hi and shake hands, lets people know that I'm not dead yet. I saw plenty of artists I knew, chatted with every one that I could but, oddly, none of the usual publishers were there, no SofaWolf, no Furplanet (though donryu

donryu was there and he was nice enough to look through my portfolios), no Rabbit Valley, no Bad Dragon, no Furoticon, no Club Stripes or Hard Blush; really none of the big collectives or names. I'd never seen anything like it in my eight years of cons. What more: there were an inordinate number of new artists; I can spot a newby a mile away and a lot more were present than normal. That's not a bad thing, I'm just used to seeing a mix of new and old faces and there were definitely not a lot of the more "popufur" people I'm accustomed to seeing.

The feeling of "offness" only increased as Saturday wore on and friends that I had there started to get antsy as sales slowed to a crawl (meanwhile I was nonstop slammed, I have no idea what the hell I was doing differently but this was very nearly a sales record breaking con for me). Saturday is usually a busy day as people who couldn't get Friday off make their way to the con and generally make up for the slowdown that accompanies the fact that many people burn through their money on Friday. Sunday was even worse for people, many people complaining of slow-to-no sales the whole day.

So why this journal about the micro-economy tendencies of a furry con? Well commerce drives a large part of what makes furry cons happen and, between this and reports of an inordinate amount of people "ghosting" the con I worry about a slow burnout for FWA. The con only grew by about 200 odd people from what I heard at the close of Dealer's Room as well. I asked around and found out that a lot of the big furry publishers and companies don't show up to FWA because they can't turn a profit, which surprises the hell out of me. Clearly something's going on here and I'm genuinely curious as to what.

Any ideas, theories, or personal insights anyone might have as to why FWA isn't a good con for artists?

PS: I did have a great con. I know this journal sounds like a bummer but I met up with a huge amount of friends, made new ones, and did great business-wise. It was a real slam dunk all around and I'm bummed that it wasn't quite that for a lot of other people. I'm also highly inquisitive by nature and love talking to you guys about this community so sound off!

-Bone

47 comments

User replies

#link Posted: 2 years ago

Yah it was really weird to not see many of the big names in the furry industry there but it was still a blast! As always I really enjoyed seeing all your masterpieces!!

#link Posted: 2 years ago

"Masterpieces"? High praise!

#link Posted: 2 years ago

I've heard mixed for these.
I did better this year then I did last year....but sold very little premade stuff until sunday when I almost sold out of ispod keychains? WTF
I still think that FWA is a party con and since it's in the city it cost more for people to be there so mostly locals are the ones spend most money etc

#link Posted: 2 years ago

I've noticed that Sunday is consistently a big day for pre-mades/prints.

#link Posted: 2 years ago

I'm not sure what causes that sort of thing, but I heard in no uncertain terms from a dealer's den veteran that FWA is just not a good con for dealers.
That's not to say it's not a good con, but just the advice I was given was that it is exceptionally hard to turn a profit at FWA and there isn't enough buyers (particularly for people without he big name recognition)

I wonder how it compares with FC, a similar size con that's more a "party con" vibe.

#link Posted: 2 years ago

People were telling me that FWA has the Party Con vibe!

#link Posted: 2 years ago

I wish that someone would start aggregating anonymous sales data for cons. Even year over year with the same con, metrics can be very different over time. We expect to make the same sales at a large anime con (20k-30k) that we do at a medium fur con (2.5-3k) even with diverse products. But then once in a while, we will have an intensely dissatisfying experience at a con others greatly enjoy - for instance we only broke even at the last RMFC despite glowing reviews from many others.

We did not attend FWA this year because of conflicting interests, and ended up at a tiny two day anime con where Mao made so much net that it was more than a month of her day job. But that con had only about twenty vendors and artists, which obviously works in our favor. Also local cons are always more profitable, if not higher in gross sales.

tl;dr the market is small and each con is different, even year on year with the same con.

#link Posted: 2 years ago

What in the world are you selling at anime conventions that can net $30,000 in a weekend? Life sized anime statues? Why would you go to furry cons at all if you can do that? Who's we? (I know a Mao but I'm not sure if it's the same person)

#link Posted: 2 years ago

I was talking attendance numbers!

Although I know someone who nets $8k at a good anime con. We are seriously lucky to clear a quarter of that. At least our con, fursuit and etc. habits are covered by it! Also the happiness that comes from being around all those geeks.

#link Posted: 2 years ago

Oh ok, the wording REALLY threw me for a loop there!

#link Posted: 2 years ago

I think switching hotels had something to do with it. The first time we were in the Mariott, one publisher that was announced never showed up, but the others did. This year there were no publishers period. This enabled me to spread my money out more and actually save a little, since I usually buy art books from big names I'm interested in. I bought a blanket from one vendor, that I never would've gotten otherwise once I realized publishers weren't going to be there, for example.

It's still very disappointing. The Dealer's Den is actually a huge draw for me, apart from the live shows, but the place we have for it is smaller than usual, in a hotel that is twice as expensive or more than the ones in the past, in a city that is difficult to navigate and somewhat expensive to stay in because of parking, not to mention the specter of theft, which we seem to be more vulnerable to at this location. I think the ghosting issue is probably directly attributable to the change in hotels over the past two years, and that may be true to an extent for the Dealer's Den as well.

We're like, what, the third largest furry con in the world now? With numbers like that, there's really no reason why you guys should be doing poorly in the Den.

#link Posted: 2 years ago

I think the lighter competition honestly ended up helping a relative unknown like myself.

#link Posted: 2 years ago

It was really great to see you again after IFC and AC. Your insight and advice has always been uplifting and fun.

Fwa is a strange convention. Have you been to it before? This was my third one. My first one sales were okay in artist alley, not great. Last year my sales did not even break even with my convention costs and that had never happened before. I did sell, but I lost a lot of money in artist alley. I was really upset.

This year was my third year and I sold only on friday, deciding to take off the rest of the convention for fun. Last year I sold friday and little sales on Saturday and none at all on sunday. So I figured, why bother. It's obviously no good for art sales. Even friday this year I sold less than Friday last year, but I just smiled and shook my head because it was as expected.

However, as a consumer and actually going around the con and getting to chat to the artists, I learned that artist alley and dealers had some differences. The artist alley was cramped and hard to get around in. The artists all seemed to be doing poorly and some were really pushy with sales. Some seemed to give up. In the dealers den everyone seemed much happier, artists all seemed to be doing very well. Online I have seen a few posts and journals about record-breaking sales even!

As a consumer I much preferred the relaxed dealers den than the cramped artist alley, and am greatly considering trying to get a dealer table next year if possible to see if it really does make a difference.

#link Posted: 2 years ago

I went into the Artist Alley once this year and thought "fuck this". It was so cramped!

#link Posted: 2 years ago

Way way too cramped. I had the same idea really, I spent 5x the amount of time in Dealers than I did at Artist Alley.

#link Posted: 2 years ago

I plan on going to FWA one of these days... hoping things don't go crazy before I get to.

Are you heading to MCFC by chance?

#link Posted: 2 years ago

Errrrrr https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MCFC

?

#link Posted: 2 years ago

Motor City Fur Con in Detroit this coming weekend.

#link Posted: 2 years ago

A third con in less than a month? Not this year!

#link Posted: 2 years ago

Completely understandable. Hope to catch you at IFC then!

Comment hidden by its owner

#link Posted: 2 years ago

Yeah, idk. FWA was weird.

Last year was much better for me, though given the size of the con, I was surprised to have not done better than I had at Rainfurrest the prior year (which was smaller). Now that I'm home and can look at my spreadsheets, FWA last year was also strongest Friday and slowest Saturday. However, commissions made up 60% of my gross last year (36 total commissions), VS 18% this year (9 total commissions). Puzzling, because I actually had a bigger commission sign this year. This does mean I did more in print sales, but it wasn't enough to make up the difference lost in commissions. Overall I was down about 30% compared to last year.

Traffic felt really abysmal all weekend, but was especially bad late Saturday and all of Sunday. I had whole hours between sales -- hell, I almost went whole hours between StreetPasses, which is a sure sign that people weren't even IN the Den, much less browsing or making any purchases. Partying is a normal part of any con, but the complete lack of people in Dealer's sure did make it seem like it wasn't an important part of people's schedules at FWA. I dunno!

I'll be skipping next year and will see if 2017 is any better I suppose.

#link Posted: 2 years ago

I'll be going back next year, I'll keep you informed if there's a turnaround.

#link Posted: 2 years ago

I'd been there on Saturday last year, completely out of circumstance since I was in town for a concert. Was also my first time at a furry convention so I was a wee bit freaked out by everything. But I remember there being so many people, and I was only able to spend around...$40 (most of which was at Talenshi's table, too). This year, though, I can see what you're saying. Friday there were lots of people (I couldn't stop to look at anyone's stuff in the Artist Alley because of how packed it was), but Saturday the crowd was considerably smaller. I ended up doing most of my purchases on Friday, too.

I feel guilty about all the people I talk to but never end up buying stuff from, but there's just so many and I can't afford all of it. I even set aside a pretty decent amount of cash for this weekend and had to make it stretch. I would have loved to have gotten something done by you and Shadow-of-Nights but most of my budget went to Talenshi this year (again). Maybe next year, if I'm lucky enough to make it up again, I'll have enough to commission more than one artist.

#link Posted: 2 years ago

Please! Don't ever feel obliged to buy from me, I'm doing quite fine! Though I NEVER object to people telling their friends how great I am~

#link Posted: 2 years ago

So, I came by the con from a really different perspective. Maybe mixing our data could bring a guess at the whole scenario?

I totally understand that conventions can be a great driving force for people who do consider their art sales an important part of their budget! It's a beautiful, unique choice of trade. I really love browsing the Dealer's Den for new fun playthings~ I bought prints for one of the first times this year and was really satisfied with the purchase. If it's a slow day, it's really fun to talk to people in the Den and see how they're doing, or if they have any fun stories! But at the end of the day, they've dedicated time and energy into reserving a table and making their booth exciting with the hope of turning a good sale, so I try to not take up too much of their time, especially with customers. But...

The Artist's Alley felt weird. It's definitely cool that people can come in and turn a sale with their art without having to book a table in the Den! But that seemed like the only thing that could be seen... at all. The artists, like some others mentioned, seemed a little too eager to make a sale. As an artist, however my quality might be rated, I felt uncomfortable, like, 'these aren't my people.' It's not that I would take the opportunity of commerce away from anyone! If the Alley becomes a place to sell, sell, sell, so be it, and I wish many good profits to the artists there!

But, where are all the 'casuals?' I just want a sketchbook pow-wow or two, a place to meet others who like to talk with their styluses as well as their muzzles. I brought the idea of a Telegram group up for artists to the person overlooking the Alley at the time. He said it was a great idea, it would help artists capitalize on their sales periods... I corrected myself, stating I was looking for something social, so the artists could keep in touch outside of the busy Alley. He looked at me like I had three heads and seemed repulsed by the idea. I walked away from it all feeling judged. There was definitely an air of an unfamiliar culture there. Maybe I'm crazy, but I felt like there was a strong attitude thrown at me: "Buy, sell, or leave. Artists exist to produce goods for economic value. You're a machine: Insert cash, receive art. If you aren't turning a profit, you're missing the point of artistry."

That's from the perspective of someone who doesn't even really like handling money...! I take a few commissions, but the economic element of it always takes away the magic of it. I'm always happy someone values what I do, but I value giving them a good piece to enjoy much more than the money. It just felt like there wasn't any room for that wishy-washy attitude in the convention's culture this year, inside or outside of the Artist's Alley.

#link Posted: 2 years ago

I feel where you're coming from and I'd like to thank for what is, obviously, a very heartfelt response. I make my living selling art with a very gritty, punk rock influenced aesthetic and philosophy but...sometimes it can get a little weird. I started doing this eight years ago and getting to where I am now took a lot more than just being a better artist, the business side of it all can be spiritually draining at times. It's an odd game.

#link Posted: 2 years ago

It was a mixed bag over in the alley. I did great this year, others did worse than the last...I feel like FWA is kind of weird in that the numbers (sales and attendance both) seem to jump up and down more often than most furcons. It's always been a really good money con for me so I couldn't tell you why it can be so hit and miss for other sellers, but it's interesting reading everyone's theories on it.

That being said I'm heavily considering going dealers den next year - I really don't mind the alley being small but I imagine dealer's gets more traffic.

(Also I'm sorry I didn't get to see more of you! By saturday my queue was Fucking Ridiculous and I spent all night double-fisting commissions and everclear)

#link Posted: 2 years ago

I even wore a Hawaiian shirt just for you on Sunday!

#link Posted: 2 years ago

Damnit, we could have matched! I'll live my whole life wondering what could have been

#link Posted: 2 years ago

This is where I feel like one of the odd ones out... I broke even on Thursday, and this convention ended up being my second all-time best convention ever (I made just under what I did at AC) due to Saturday's incredibly crazy sales. Friday morning was slow, I was able to finish all of my Saturday pick-up stuff that day and was actually able to go out and do con stuff with my friends. Saturday morning was also slow; sales didn't pick up until after I returned from dinner, and even with the lull in people during the dance competition, I was still making sales. Sunday was the slowest day, to be expected, as I sold probably three things that day, and that's fine. I wasn't expecting a lot of sales then.

I agree that the alley was cramped as ever. We hardly had room to move away from our table, and I had to keep bothering the poor guy next to me so I could get up and go to the bathroom or pick up a badge trade. It was a pain, and I felt like a bother. Trying to get back to my table was also a pain as the traffic wasn't well regulated.

Anyway, I feel like FWA is a hit-or-miss convention for many. Very fifty-fifty on all ends. I didn't sell my first year as it was my very first furry convention experience, second year I did pretty well, and this year I did great. I don't expect next year to be as great, but mostly because my goal for every convention is to break even; any extra cash I make is always a nice bonus.

I might consider doing dealers den next year to see what kind of experience that is. FWA is my favorite convention, more so because of the environment, and not so much because of money-making, lol.

#link Posted: 2 years ago

I get very analytical about it because I'm more of a natural math guy than art guy and this is my full time job, a con being a miss for me for some nebulous reason is a potential big hit to my life!

#link Posted: 2 years ago

Oh, I absolutely understand! This is what pays the bills!

#link Posted: 2 years ago

Do people seriously not know about FWA?

The convention leadership has pulled several stunts illustrating their greed and corruption. The major controversy came from the announcement that no member of FWA con staff was welcome if they worked with any other convention. Continued participation in FWA required sole loyalty to just FWA, on penalty of suspension and permaban.

That was enough for me to decide to never attend again. I imagine there are plenty of people who were equally as offended as myself.

#link Posted: 2 years ago

Apparently some dude known as "Gropey Growlithe" is on staff as well and is a convicted pedophile.

#link Posted: 2 years ago

How delightful.

#link Posted: 2 years ago

Considering that FWA has been known for shady practices (though they are probably not the only ones) and staff issues...I wonder if the big time publishers are staying away from it? Though it also might have been because of the events that happened last year as well being a turnoff. Who can really say other than the people who didnt go.

#link Posted: 2 years ago

What happened last year?

#link Posted: 2 years ago

A lot of peoples cars were stolen. Several of them were dealers cars.

#link Posted: 2 years ago

Well holy hell, glad my truck is OK!

#link Posted: 2 years ago

I've never been a big con person - frankly, large crowds turn me off. yeah, even large fur crowds. :D

However, I'll be stopping by FurtheMore this coming weekend, be curious to keep what you say in mind when I stop by there, to compare it.

#link Posted: 2 years ago

Meanwhile I love a good crowd!

#link Posted: 2 years ago

You love a LOT of strange things. ;)

#link Posted: 2 years ago

My theory is that people barely slink into the con money wise and never bring enough extra cash to buy art or merch.

Awesome chatting with you BTW, really love my badge :D

#link Posted: 2 years ago

You've got a great character, hope to draw it again someday!

#link Posted: 2 years ago

Fascinating. I know nothing about furry con economics but this journal is definitely the most interesting one I've read recently. So kudos for that.

I'd also just like to say that every time I read "dealers" I mentally inserted "drug" in front of the word, which made everything fun.

That aside, if there really is some shady stuff going on at the organizational levels of the con that would probably explain why a lot of your big names and publishers are staying away. All the new faces are there to fill the gaps, but if the con's reputation has taken a hit then it might not be enough to make up for it in terms of attendance. That's what seems most likely to me.

#link Posted: 2 years ago

Before you read my input, you should know that FWA was only my third furry convention ever, preceded by Midwest FurFest 2015 and Megaplex 2015.

I have had some people describe FWA to me as a "party con." It doesn't seem to be about the planned activities of the con itself, but more about the room parties and personal interactions. The only checkpoints that require a badge at FWA are events in the Marquis Ballroom and in the Programming rooms, and SOMETIMES the dealer's den. The problem with this is that FWA does not seem to have much in the way of programming compared to cons like MFF and Megaplex. There were very few community-led panels. There were a few about fursuiting, one about how to DJ and produce music, one about personal finance, one about tasting, and that's mostly it. Beyond those you only had the big events like Floor Wars, the dance competition, Dad's Garage improv, the fursuit games. If you look at MFF 2015, however, there were something like 300 different panels throughout the weekend, and MFF started a day later in the week than FWA. There was much more there that people wanted to do that required them to have a badge. For Megaplex, you had to have a badge to even get into the convention area at all.

A friend of mine told me that despite the fact that he bought a badge for FWA, he only used it once the entire weekend. Though it was my first FWA and I let myself get caught in the atmosphere of it all, there were definitely times when I didn't have something I really wanted to do, and times when I went to a panel because I "might as well" rather than because I actually wanted to go.

In summary, I believe FWA was ghosted so hard because it's an utterly ghostable con. Compared to other cons, the programming seems weak, and it seems as though more people are interested in socializing on their own than participating in scheduled events. An FWA attendee can enjoy the con to his satisfaction without attending a single scheduled event and not feel like he's missing out. That doesn't make it right to ghost, and there's a whole ethical discussion in there, but to discourage ghosting at its core, FWA needs to give people reasons not to ghost. It really needs to create programming that is engaging and that people want to go to, and then make sure that everyone going has a badge. They need to make people without badges feel like they're missing out, and make sure the star of the con is the con itself, and not the things people do on their own.

Add to this that eventually there was a checkpoint at the dealer's den and you know why sales slowed down. xD

It's just my uneducated input, but I hope it makes sense.