Cuddling with your bros
I’m in college currently and I spend lots of time hanging out at my friends house doing dumb shit. Yknow, smoking weed, playing video games, drinking, etc. Basically your average college age shenanigans. And I love every second of it. But the other day I was hanging out with my best friend and we were watching like Avatar (the show) and his arm was casually across my shoulders. There was nothing sexual about it, and it’s so strange that I have to clarify that because of male culture, but it was such a great feeling. I think as men we forget how meaningful the touch of another human being can be. Long story short, snuggle up to your friends more often. You both enjoy it, and I promise it’s really not that weird.
I don't even like showing physical affection to family, nevermind close friends, same sex or opposite.
Something about it just makes me feel uncomfortable for some reason. I do very much enjoy physical affection within a romantic setting but otherwise I don't enjoy being touched or touching others. I've tried to be more receptive to it and show it more, but it just isn't "me".
I do however agree with the sentiment, even if I don't think it applies to me personally
Came here to basically say this.
I'm with you all on the, "I should be able to do this without it being stigmatized" train, but unless you're my wife, I don't want to be touched by you - man, woman, or other. You'll get a dirty look, some strong words, and I will probably want to leave. Just miss me with that shit altogether please.
Yeah, I feel you. It's just important to establish that there has also been consent given in such a situation, because people of all genders often have issues with being touched.
I think some people wouldn't be liked to be touched, even if they weren't conditioned. It should be a personal preference thing, and everyone is going to be different, and no one should be judged for being comfortable with or being comfortable without.
No I completely agree. I’ve said as much numerous times in this thread. Some people love having space. I completely understand that as well. However, and again this is the point of my post, is that some guys do want to have a little bit more physical contact with their friends but don’t because of the stigma. And you don’t really know which person you are until you try it. But hey it might not be for you and I’m really not saying this to try and bully people into doing something they’re not comfortable with.
I grew up in a predominantly Latino area. So I'm fine with hugging/kissing as a form of greeting from males or females. But I cringe at the idea of an extended hug or cuddle. If my friend put his arm around me on the couch I would definitely be very uncomfortable, but if a strange man kisses me on the cheek when he meets me I think nothing of it.
I can totally relate to this, my daughter is the only person I know that can give me a hug or kiss on the cheek without me feeling put off.
That's not some kind of tough manly man thing. I just don't like being touched and never have.
Outside of physical activity like basketball, I don’t want to touch random people outside of shaking hands/kissing as a greeting, nor them touch me.
I don’t even like when my grandmother comes up and puts her hands on my shoulders. Tense up get uncomfortable—woman was at the hospital when I was born.
It's how you were raised.
Or maybe it isn't. Personally I don't like it because of sensory issues due to being on the spectrum.
Maybe. I've never really enjoyed being touched as long as I can remember. It's not like I'll turn down a hug or get angry when someone touches me.. I just don't enjoy it outside of a romantic context
Women have no qualms at all about holding or cuddling with one another
Sometimes I wonder how many other women feel societal pressure from other women to actually be all touchy/cuddly like that. Do I really have to accept so many hugs. Often from women I barely know. As for friends, I enjoy intimacy with them, but I want MUCH LESS of it.
Or am I even more introverted than I thought.
I'd really love for men to be able to have more platonic intimacy and for us women to be able to opt out without being alienated for it.
As a cis-straight male, I fucking love cuddles, but only with someone I am dating. I really don't like that kind of touch, or that constant type of contact, even from my female friends.
It's not about, OMG, that's gay, it's more of what I, as a person, can take before I feel overwhelmed and claustrophobic.
Now, I love hugs, and kisses on the cheek, etc. I'm ok with showing endearment or platonic love. The brief momentary kind. So, it's not physical contact itself that bothers me.
I know a lot of girls who are the same way, and this makes me wonder if any of their friends have treated them differently because of this. It's something I never thought about.
I think it really varies person to person. I’m gay, had a straight friend who just liked close contact and honestly, it was refreshing - being able to just cuddle next to each other and not have it be weird or accused of hitting on him.
This. We as a society need to do away with the expectations entirely and just not fuss over someone's preferred level of touching between friends.
I'm sure it varies depending on a lot of factors, but I've always wondered how much of this is overblown. I haven't had "cuddly" female friends since I was in high school. I can count the number of times I've platonically hugged a female friend in the last decade on one hand. Maybe I hang out with a bunch of disaffected weirdos (who am I kidding, I definitely hang out with a bunch of disaffected weirdos), but I don't think we're extreme outliers in terms of touch. If we did hug/cuddle/touch, it certainly wouldn't come with the immediate homophobic social reprobation that men get, but I'm not convinced that the average woman platonically touches other women as much as men think we do.
I can count the number of times I've platonically hugged a female friend in the last decade on one hand.
Interesting. I'm a guy, and I consider myself touch starved from both men and women. But I've probably platonically hugged both guys and girls more than that. For guy friends its only my really close buds, but some women just seems to love hugging (and that's not something I'd want to turn down).
I’m a woman and I wish I could be that way with my friends but I’m just not. It’s fine if they engage with me first but I have never felt comfortable being touchy feely or snuggling my girlfriends even if I have known them for years. With my husband it’s like snuggles all day long so I think it’s more of a vulnerability factor which I apparently do not have with people other than my husband. :(
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I don’t like it, I’m a woman. I won’t hold hands and stuff like that because it makes me uncomfortable. But I’ll hold my boyfriends hand no problem.
I feel the same way. As a woman, I do not want as much touch. I'm studying engineering and when I get back into a situation where my gender is the majority, I often feel uncomfortable with the amount of touching. I don't mind it with close friends, but not everyone.
Yeah, it'd be nice not to be labeled a cold bitch for refusing a hug from someone I just met.
Introverted Woman here: I feel a lot of pressure from this as well. But at the same time, I crave it. I’ve spent a lot of my career in a male dominated environment so I supposed I just got used to it and now I’m slightly awkward with other women. But when it does happen, I feel this incredible sisterly bond. I’m slowly integrating myself with more woman and it’s getting easier. But I’ve also met other women who just aren’t into it, and that’s nice too. No pressure there.
Sometimes I wonder how many other women feel societal pressure from other women to actually be all touchy/cuddly like that.
lot of them. or rather the opposite - lot of women probably feel pressured to not protest or show discomfort when touched without explicit consent.
I think a LOT of women aren't into it at all. I'm a woman, and I'll give hugs when society says so, but the idea of spooning with another woman skeeves me out. It's too close and intimate. I've shared beds with plenty of girlfriends on trips and at friends houses, but I've never, ever had one of them cuddle on me. I've never seen my friends cuddle each other either. The closest thing I've seen was my high school best friend and our gay friend cuddling a lot, and it weirded everyone out to the point we all talked about how it made us feel weird.
I think this is a societal pressure thing and potentially a flirting thing: girls by themselves won't cuddle, but they will to titillate the teenage boys at movie night. I've never seen a woman over 25 cuddle anyone but SOs, their kids, puppies, and the occasional stuffed animal. I definitely saw girls do this as teens, but only ever in mixed company.
I've no doubt this is largely cultural and depends on a lot of factors, but this is my personal experience...
That's what I'm thinking. If I saw two chicks holding each other's hands I wouldn't think they were "just friends". I think a lot of the stuff that is getting called platonic isn't actually platonic. I believe that hand holding and cuddling are examples of this. The only context where this isn't the case, is when kids are involved.
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In groups with high emotional intelligence, discomfort is noted and made accommodation for.
See also: my friend has horrible lactose intolerance, so instead of going to The Cheesecake Factory" for dessert we hit a diner and got pie. (mine had ice cream)
Be you, you'll eventually find your tribe.
See that is a problem I could see too, but mostly because I'm the kind of person who doesn't want this. I don't care for most people touching me.
And I mean for me personally, it sucks that others feel either obligated to or obligated not to, I just happen to be lucky enough to have my preferences line up with what's expected of me.
As a huggy person with a MUCH huggier family (as in, I like to hug people, but it’s hug and release. My family will hug me and just hold me there while I die inside), I have really internalized the practice of just saying “Aww, you’re so sweet! Would it be okay if I gave you a hug?” And other ways of just quickly but straightforwardly asking if someone wants to be touched/cuddled/whatever. And if they seem to hesitantly say yes, I’ll even drop my voice and let them know that it’s okay if they don’t want to be touched, or if they would prefer something less intimate or encompassing, like a hand on the shoulder or something like that. I think practicing consent in non-sexual situations is just as important as in sexual ones, even though we don’t talk about it as much.
This is me. As a woman I feel that I have to endure hugs and touching from both men and women a lot more than I'm comfortable with. However, there are times when physical touch, even outside of a romantic setting, is amazingly healing and enjoyable. I wish there was a way to tell people not to touch me without offending them.
I never thought of that before, I'd be curious to know. I think it's funny how men and women have so many problems that are just the opposite of each other.
I don't mind hugs at all but cuddling/linking arms make me antsy
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Women have no qualms at all about holding or cuddling with one another
seriously no joke if there are any women reading this thread wondering what they can do to support the dudes in their life, being supportive of men being allowed to be close with men is a really really helpful thing. Actually, it's not even about actively being "supportive", it's more like just not being snarky or mocking about it. Some progressive women are sometimes a bit unaware about they ways in which they accidentally enforce patriarchal rules on men, so avoiding making shitty homophobic gay jokes when your dudefriends are getting their cuddles on goes a long way.
Also, based on the replies in this thread, while clearly not all the men here are gasping for a hug, it's worth pointing out that nobody here is saying they have a problem with other men doing it, so that's cool. :)
Otherwise very progressive people can sometimes be really weird about men going against traditional gender roles. I’ll never forget when my very liberal sister called a guy on tv gay for holding his friend’s hand while getting a tattoo. Threw me for a loop.
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Women have no qualms at all about holding or cuddling with one another
Yuck, no way. I have qualms all the way up the wazoo. All my closest/longest friends know this and it's kind of a joke among us. I have one friend who tends to loudly proclaim, "I WON'T HUG YOU CUZ I KNOW YOU DON'T LIKE BEING TOUCHED," which is really funny. But true.
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i am just guessing, and i might be totally wrong, but i think maybe it has bit to do with how society perceives and fears non-hetero interest.
i think the default "image in head" when speaking about homosexual persons is two men. that has been the image drilled in all of our heads by homophobes. so women have more confidence, that "it's not romantic/sexual".
but if you are open about your sexuality, they start to question your motives.
I was pretty sheltered as a kid and didn't have a lot of friends growing up, so I didn't learn a lot of the things people 'just know' at that age. In high school I bonded a lot with other kids through theatre. These were largely scene/emo/truant kids who broke rules and didn't care about school. I was very Christian at the time and was certainly the square in the group. One guy in particular was a total rule breaker who had lots of sex and smoked and drank and did drugs and even went to jail one time, and I disagreed with all of that but loved him so much as a person, and he loved me.
There was a day when he and I napped spooning on a couch backstage in the theater, and afterward he commented several times "I can't believe we just did that" and "only with you would that not be weird" and I just totally didn't understand what he meant at all, and didn't really think about it at the time.
It wasn't until I thought back on it a few years ago that I realized that could have been construed as 'gay.' It just never occurred to me that it was this intimate, exclusive, sexual thing.
Most of my roommates the past few years were women, and we would often cuddle and lay on/near each other in nonsexual tender ways, but nowadays I feel like if I were to be like that with another guy, even a close friend, it'd come across as weird/forcing the issue. It wouldn't be relaxing or natural.
I guess I've been socialized against it now. That makes me kind of sad.
As a 30 year old women I don’t „cuddle“ or am touchy with other women at all. As teenager it was different but I generally don’t touch my female friends unless it’s necessary?
In University we would sleep next to each other after a night out but only because there was no other bed and I wouldn’t let them sleep on the floor.
Probably an age thing though. As young girls we would play spin the bottle to learn how to kiss...wasn’t embarrassing tho. It was weirdly normal...
Im touchy with everyone if necessary - like to console someone or to fix something about their appearance but would never cuddle with any of my friends... no matter what gender.
Even the smallest gestures like a hand on the shoulder are appreciated, it's definitely comforting. I've always felt like a creep for wanting this though, doesn't help that I'm bi so I always had doubts this wasn't a sexual thing with me, but it's reassuring to know I'm not the only one, and that it used to be the norm, and is still the norm some in other countries. We're social animals we're just wired this way, but Western culture managed to make it weird.
https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/bosom-buddies-a-photo-history-of-male-affection/
It wasnt always like this.
That article is so bittersweet...you see these wholesome, heartwarming pictures of friends, but at the same time you know that male friends just can't do that any more (you know what I mean by "can't"), and given the current, stubborn what-it-means-to-be-masculine climate, they won't be able to again for some time.
IMO, this article should be on the sidebar. I know I've posted the link several times, so it's not unreasonable to assume others have also done so.
I feel like there's a double standard with this where like, some people say "look at how men in the old times used to touch each other, they weren't afraid of breaking their masculinity to show affection" and also "of course this guy from the past was gay just look at how he touched men". Like even people who say they want it to be platonic don't want it to be platonic
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And I've definitely seen lots of articles here about men being touch starved. I realized how rich starved I am, after I brought a girl home for the first time with sex implied, and we ended up cuddling all night because that just made me so happy. I even enjoy hugging my parents more now.
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You know, every man I've been with says the same thing--that they feel touch-starved and wish they could be more affectionate with friends. It makes me so so sad what we do to little boys.
That's just the thing though, for myself I definitely wish I could but I wouldn't feel comfortable even if I did it and everyone else was into it.
There are a lot of things I’ve done that I wasn’t comfortable with. Doesn’t mean it wasn’t worth doing.
When I was 19 I was becoming agoraphobic. My dad made me go out onto the the driveway with him, and he told me something like, “You’re young and your world is small. If you don’t push your comfort zone, your world will stay small at best, and shrink at worst. Dont mistake discomfort as bad. It’s the only way you grow.”
I’ve been the one to initiate and endure a lot of uncomfortable scenarios since then that have changed my life. It’s how I approached the person I wound up marrying. It’s how I made two very close friends while getting my bachelors. It’s how I completed my degree after those close friends dropped out but maintained our friendship.
The way I see it, comfort isn’t what you need to achieve change like this. It takes trust. You have to trust yourself and find other people you can trust to push through the discomfort.
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I agree, but I think for me its because its such an unfamiliar thing, and I still have a lot of internalized homophobia that society taught me. I realized I used to do a lot more touching with my brothers and my cousins when I was younger, and while it was mostly play fighting, there was a bit of leaning on each others shoulders too. But now, that seems super weird to me, even with my brother and cousins.
I totally understand that. I think to me it might be just that, since it's been so long since I've been in a real relationship and had physical intimacy with a woman, I just think it'd be hard for physical intimacy to NOT feel romantic. I like to think that in the future, after I get a relationship and get over that hurdle, I'd be capable of it.
Interesting, I can see that. However I do know for me, the first (and so far only) time I brought a girl home I met on tinder, I ended up with the opposite. Since we met on tinder, I think she assumed it would be a hookup. I knew I wasn't ready for that, so I told her and I felt I would see where it would go. However, since as the guy I was expected to initiate anyway, we just ended up cuddling the entire night since I was so touch-starved and was just so happy with the cuddling.
Kids are naturally affectionate when they're younger, it's pretty sad because it's obviously trained out of them, although I'm sure stranger danger has something to do with it. I work at an elementary school and after being here long enough that the students know me they will randomly run up to me and hug me. I think it's mostly boys who do it too. I also can't help but notice the boys are more emotional and more likely to cry too. Gender stereotypes are messed up.
Hmm this is definitely not true for every man though, if you do your utter best to conform to every single societal norm you're gonna have a bad time regardless of your gender. I'm a guy and I'm comfortable hugging my friends, sometimes when I haven't seen someone for a while they'll be kinda iffy and will try to go for a handshake or something, I'll just hug the shit out of them instead.
Honestly I've never hugged anyone and had them react adversely to it.
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As a gay guy who adores cuddling and physical touch in general, I hate how I have to police myself for fear of scaring my straight guy friends. And I hate how they feel they have to police themselves too. Clearly they enjoy it because it happens all the time when they drink. I cuddle with girl friends all the time, and it's so comforting & reassuring.
I'm a lesbian and I have the same discomfort and policing with my female friends. I think that's a fairly common feeling among LGBQ+ folks about their same-sex friends.
I hate that. Just because I’m gay doesn’t mean I want to sleep with everyone
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Yeah I hear you. Not to pat myself on the back but I’m pretty comfortable like this with my gay friends. I think the more you stress about it the weirder it is. I don’t mean that as in being gay is weird, please don’t misunderstand me. What I mean is that the more you go “oh my god I can’t touch them because they’re gay” the more uncomfortable the interaction is. Have faith that your gay friend knows you’re straight and there’s really no drama involved.
I hug my closest mates all the time and tell them when they look handsome and that I love them. It's amazing. But if they were gay I might tune it down just for fear to lead them on or get them confused, etc. Zero homophobia there. It's the same with my female friends. I try to keep it more low key just to avoid making things weird eventually. This changes when it's clear that we're both in relationships, etc. If my gay mate was clearly not into me I'd be happy to kiss and hug him though! Its not at all about that "gay people will shag you when you're not looking" bullshit. It's about hurting feelings. So my point is, I hope that's the reason rather than homophobia, but of course so many guys are raised in a homophobic environment that, even subconsciously, they feel uncomfortable. I want to believe I don't let that affect my behaviour with anyone in the LGTB+ spectrum, but who knows, maybe it does somehow. All we can do is push for a next generation that won't see anything negative in any sexual/gender/sex identity. Just love people and enjoy life!!
Idk man go for it, make your intentions clear tho. I get how it would be uncomfortable for a straight dude if he assumes you're coming onto him, but I think if you're just open about the fact that you like them as friends and nothing more they probably won't care that much.
I wish I had gay friends that would cuddle. I'm not gay myself but that shit sounds nice.
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Where are all these straight guys I keep hearing about from gaybros on reddit that like to cuddle?
I'm pretty much the antithesis of a "bro", but plenty of straight friends I've made throughout my life, seemingly, like to cuddle... it just only happens when they're wasted. So presumably the desire for contact is there, it just requires a break down of inhibition.
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I mean you have to understand why they might feel uncomfortable right?
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I’m a girl into girls, and I kind of get this. Obviously in general, it’s considered “weirder” with guys (it shouldn’t be) and I thankfully have some queer female friends who like to cuddle. But straight girls kind of avoid touching me when they find out I’m into women, and in turn I avoid touching them as well.
Yeah I just had a conversation with a gay dude somewhere else in the thread and I think it more or else applies here. If you’re the straight person you just have to be confident in your friend that they know you’re not into them. Once you get past that it’s not that weird.
I'm lucky that my straight friends don't care about my gayness I'm super affectionate and I think people appreciate that about me. I'm all over that hug! Need a lap to lay your head in? I got you! Need some one to play with your hair so you can relax? Yep that's me. Its not sexual, but I love these people and touch is so very important IMO.
in high school i had a real close group of 5-6 besties and our physical intimacy level was tops. we would lay on my friend's bed together and stare at the ceiling and cuddle and talk or nap. it still is with those in the group I still see regularly and we're all 30 or late 20s now with female partners. I will sit on the couch with an arm around my friend, lots of hugging, etc. when one of my best friends was seriously injured in a fall a couple years back I laid in bed with him and talked and it made us both feel better. super underrated imo
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I love how accepting and open-minded this sub is. It's truly a breath of fresh air that has made me feel so much better. I haven't seen any attacking of others, and people all use empathy and reason to discuss things with each other. :) Places like these are what I love about the internet. And, this type of thinking can seriously make big change. Thank you, OP.
I love communities like this because it reminds me that I'm not crazy, I'm not the only one who feels this way. That people can be this chill and progressive gives me hope for humanity.
I've done this on mushrooms and it was so fantastic. Unfortunately doesn't go over as well when drugs aren't involved but I'll keep doing my part to try to make it a thing!
I struggle being physically close with my SO, apart from when we are getting sexual. Maybe it's some kind of social anxiety. I just don't like being touched outside of handshakes. Is that bad?
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I've had an interesting discussion about this the other week. And my conclusion is that a great deal of this is wrapped up in homophobia.
In cultures where Homosexuality is not acknowledged, intimacy between men is surprisingly normal. In cultures that DO acknowledge it, suddenly it's taboo.
And the problem here is that once it's a thing, men don't want to be seen as "gay". Because consciously or not, they seem to internalize that being "gay" is something to be ashamed or embarrassed of. Consider those that don't think of themselves as homophobic, but would still feel lowkey insulted if someone mistook them as gay.
Them: I can't show affection for my bros without everyone thinking I'm gay! It sucks, ugh!
Me: riiight. And what exactly is wrong if people think you're gay?
...
Ergo. If we want to normalize affection between men again. We have to seriously de-stigmatize homosexuality moreso than we already have. People shouldn't be afraid of being "mistaken for gay". They shouldn't care. And only then when such behaviors will be truly normalized.
they seem to internalize that being "gay" is something to be ashamed or embarrassed of
I'm super touch starved, and not consciously homophobic. But I know I've internalized a lot of homophobia over the years, which makes me uncomfortable with touching other guys. Especially with friends throwing out no homo, that fear of being gay stays with you, even after you've consciously decided against it.
It's as if cultures have this problem when they first start to accept homosexuality but not completely. I imagine homosexuality was so taboo at one point it was unspeakable, so you could get away with hugging your bro because being accused of being gay for that would be a very intense accusation. Now it's normalized enough to be acknowledged but still considered shameful, so someone sees two guys holding hands could legitimacy consider they're a couple, and because they don't want their sexuality questioned they'll end up not holding hands at all. I'm just speculating though.
Them: I can't show affection for my bros without everyone thinking I'm gay! It sucks, ugh!
Me: riiight. And what exactly is wrong if people think you're gay?
I've been what others considered 'intimate' with other men before. I received homophobic comments daily for quite awhile afterwards (this was in highschool), so while you're definitely right about having to de-stigmatize homosexuality I wouldn't presume everyone who is scared to be intimate is homophobic. It's very possible they're just scared about being bullied or mocked by homophobic people.
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Yeah idk why it can’t be accepted like today it was my best friends birthday and I gave him a giant hug and I told him how much I cared about him. But yet people found out and called me fag and gay. I was just showing how I cared for a true friend, there’s nothing wrong with that!
called me fag and gay
My favorite response when people say that now, about anyone or anything, is to say so what? Most people I know will be like ya true if he's gay that's fine too, and I feel like it makes that reconsider the way they use those words.
I once had a dealer/friend who asked me "can I try something?" and naively I said yes, he then started grabbing my crotch like it was a casual thing and ever since then I don't enjoy being touched much by other men. Moral of the story is if someone asks a blanket question like "can I try something?" the answer is no. However, that is really cool you can be comfortable with that. Life goals.
Yeah, that is sexual assault or molestation, and in a country where men valued not only women's domains over their bodies but equally our own domains of our bodies, you would have that dude in court/jail/etc.
i think it's not that much how society places values but how lawmakers/parlament execute the premise of equality.
where i live, society is still all sorts of fucked, but the law is implemented to be gender neitral. up to 7 years for shit like that regardless of gender combination.
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Many years ago, men walked down the streets holding hands with their male friends all the time. Intimacy, open or otherwise, was welcomed.
This is still quite common in many parts of the world. In the arab world for instance it's very common for men to walk down the street holding hands or locking arms.
Indian men do this all the time. They walk down the street holding hands or with their arms around each other's shoulders or with their pinkie fingers interlocked. And it is not considered less masculine or anything like that. In fact, I've seen men eve-teasing women with their arms around each other (this is a whole other problem in India)
I have however, in the past couple of years, noticed that young men in urban settings have started to go the western way when it comes to physical intimacy. I've seen men being weird about their friends holding their hand, and heard 'no homo' been thrown around after a 'I love you man'. It is disheartening.
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This is kind of depressing subject matter for such a positive post, but you might be interested in this article. It's about the weirdness surrounding gender and sexuality in Saudi Arabia. In a lot of places were homosexuality is aggressively policed against, there's also a tendency to not allow meaningful relationships between men and women (meaning no premarital sex, little unchaperoned dating, and often little expectation of an honest and open emotional connection between husbands and wives.) As a consequence of that, meaningful platonic relationships between men (and between women) flourish. The article itself is primarily about gay life and attitudes towards homosexuality, but it gets into the other stuff as well. Part of the reason that male-male platonic intimacy is so heavily policed in places like the US is that we more openly acknowledge homosexuality (whereas if you just deny that it really exists, you don't have to worry about it in the same way) and that we expect men to get emotional and physical fulfillment from women (therefore they shouldn't need it from other men.)
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I used to do this so much with my bros in high school, and now my male friends in college are so cold. Although tbh most of my friends from high school are straight (and I thought I was straight) whereas in college most of my friends are bisexual. So the dynamics may have changed but I totally miss cuddling with my bros while watching netflix tbh
Yeah dude exactly. Also weird note - a lot of guys really enjoy sports. Inherent with most sports is a lot of physical comradery. Dudes will slap each other on the butt and stuff. It’s totally normal under that situation, yet when just sitting watching TV you can’t be sitting next to your friend. I think a large part of why people lose that ability to chill with their friends on the couch watching a show is because they stopped playing sports with them and you forgot that you actually don’t care if you touch each other.
EDIT: I’m aware some of you didn’t play sports. But this is just my perspective.
That's where our perspectives totally differ. I didn't do many sports in high school and neither did my friends, of the few sports I was involved in, I didn't experience that comradery, although that was probably because I grew up in the southern United States and many of my peers thought I was gay
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During my three years in grad school, I had a group of guy friends (and some girls) that were just all super supportive and close. We would all hug each other when we said hello and goodbye, and we would cuddle as a group on the couch. Gay/straight male/female, didn't matter we just all loved each other.
Was a very cool time.
Touching other men is discouraged unless you want to risk being outcast.
Touching women is discouraged unless you're trying to hook up with them or something.
Sigh. I feel like I'm leaving puddles of dopamine behind on the floor whenever I get up. Somebody touch me!!
still. get up. go out. do things. look after yourself. do more things!
this helps 60% of the time, every time!
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I was once in Italy on an escalator and the guy in front of me casually put his hands on his mates shoulder all the way down. I thought weird initially. But as I thought about it it was comforting and beautiful. Changed my perspective that day.
because of the taboo with platonic touching i have actually been on the "dreaded" mistaken advance. me and my best friend aren't touchy touchy by any sorts but are super fucking comfortable around each other. (his girlfriend snapped a pic of us last week cause we we watching a movie and he used my lap as a pillow (with an actual pillow but still).
so i KNOW damm well it doesnt have to mean anything. just with the stigma involved with it. id double check. mostly just not to lead anyone on. turns out i was being courted by someone for like a fucking week till he tried to buy dinner then i realized. (he had bought me drinks before i thought he was just really nice).
edit: just wanna add ive been lurking this sub for a while to make sure it wasnt toxic or anything and im officially comfortable enough that if anyone questions me being a part of it ill happily defend it. this is what those other subs tried to be.
I'd never thought about it from the perspective of gay men, but as a lesbian, there's often a whole song and dance you go through in your head about "Is she actually flirting with me or is she just a straight girl being nice and/or touchy?" I can see how male platonic touching is so policed against that gay men would do the opposite and think "We're touching, it's definitely romantic."
wasnt talking about you specifically. (thus my friend story) just as a heads up to others. it kinda makes me feel like im part of the problem saying shit like that but its a reality. if you dont know people well enough theyd be right to assume cause of the stigma. its like the opposite of girls with the assumption of flirting or just being nice.
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The series, “Patriot” on Netflix has a beautiful message in a few episodes about non sexual man to man affection and comfort. It’s an unusual show and I loved this part especially.
This is like the 20th time I’ve read something like this and I’ve been trying to respond to most of them. I sound like a broken record, but it’s not for everyone. However, we are stigmatized to think that it’s super weird and incredibly uncomfortable for both people. Once you do it, it’s really not that weird. Again some people do like their space. Others just don’t know that they actually could use a little more closeness. Hence my post
As long as you're sure that both parties are comfortable with the cuddling then sure. My point is just that sometimes guys tend to cuddle less because they simply don't like to cuddle with other guys, not necessarily because they're being ostracized by society.
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I remember a buddy talking about a trick he did massaging his girls hand. I was confused as to why you would massage hands. So he sat down beside me on the couch, grabbed my hand and gave me like a 5 minute massage. I was taken aback at first and almost yanked my hand away, but I just sat there and watched him rub my hand. It freaked me the fuck out but then I thought “we’re not attracted to each other, why panic because another man is physically making you feel good?”
I think it was a little of my Southern raised “men don’t cry, hug, etc.” that caught me off guard.
Overall 10/10 hand massage. Would recommend, even if it’s your best bro working his magic.
My husband is a whore of a cuddler ...with anyone. He will cuddle you, your dad, your mom, and your dog. We have to have serious conversations about not pressuring people to hug. That’s just who he is. From a glance you’d have no idea that’s the kind of person he is but he connects through touch, I’m pretty sure. I think male platonic intimacy is totally rad and it’s really cool you brought this up!
This was one of things that I’m so grateful I had in my friends in high school, although it was normalized by us constantly pissing each other off and putting each other in headlocks. I’m glad to see that this is continuing to be more and more normalized.
I think this is one way guys can touch, but keep it masculine. I know I used to always fight with my brother, and now I kinda miss it. And this connects to the male attraction to touch sports (like football), its a way to have touch contact with other people, that is decidedly masculine.
Used to hug friends too then it just stopped with college it was like oh yeah we are all adults aren't we like not supposed to hug til we are 60 or 80 now? I really dislike it. I used to feel like I identified as trans or questioning but then I realized it was just that I wanted to feel more emotion that society had allowed me to and express myself in ways that I was suppressing because "that's not what men do". Wish I still had that hug and such friendship I had back then but my friends are all scattered throughout the states now.
I live in Mexico and it is much more common to see men hug each other or put their arm around each other here than in the US, it is a nice feeling of brotherhood. Many men I've met here also seem to be a lot more comfortable being vulnerable and talking about their emotions and allowing themselves to cry. I was sadly so used to seeing men called "faggots" in mainstream US culture for that type of thing that it's very refreshing.
THANK YOU! SNUGGLING FEELS SO DAMN GOOD! EVEN IF IT'S NOT SUPER CLOSE CONTACT!!!
Not a joke question...how would you handle an erection? (morning wood or something of that nature)
I don't think he meant actually spending the night together, just hugging on the couch or giving a pat on the shoulder. But it's a natural process, I wouldn't be too freaked out about it. I'm gay and I had a straight friend sleep over once, he woke up with morning wood and I didn't, so I just got up first and gave him privacy for when he could get up without being embarrassed lol
Yeah I think my original response to this was pretty rude. I’m still working through some of my hang ups. I did in fact mean like just chilling on a couch. But if I woke up next to one of my friends with a morning wood I wouldn’t be too concerned about it. It’s not really something you have control over.
I mean, morning wood isn’t arousal, so I can’t see why it would be a problem.
I was roommates with a close female friend a few years back, and she was very cuddly in a 100% platonic way. She came to hang out in bed with me one morning as she often did and bumped into my morning wood, and just shifted her hips away and continued the conversation. It was a little awkward, but it wasn't a big deal.
I'd imagine it'd be even easier with another guy, since there's no chance they'd have any delusions about dudes having conscious control over it.
Yeah....um......no I don't want any kind of physical activity with my friends like that. I don't even like giving hugs to most people including family. Idk how y'all are so cool with this but don't just go around trying to make people think it should be a thing because that's just as rude and invasive as people telling you not to do it.
Some of us just don't want to be that close to even our good friends.
Dude listen I’m not saying it’s for everyone. But some people do like the sensation of physical touch for its companionship. Someone linked a great story about Simon Pegg and Nick Frost somewhere in this thread I highly recommend reading it. Boys have it programmed into them that they can’t touch each other because it’s “gay” (which wtf is up with that). So we lose out on the ability to put your arm around your friend casually. I mean idk about most of you, but one of my favorite things is when my dad puts his arm around me. I enjoy it so much because I love him and respect him. And I also do love lots of my friends why can’t the same thing apply here?
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I have always found it sad that me and my girlfriends are allowed to have a lot of touch in our friendships and it is rarely sexual in nature. But guys aren’t even able to hug without being insulted. Touch is so important, all y’all should cuddle and hug and dogpile as much as y’all want.
In Asian culture it doesn’t mean anything. It’s the other culture that makes gay out of it
I did that on mdma with my Mrs and best mate, safe to say we bonded for life after that night!
I feel that. I moved in w my beat friend from High school (hes in the army) amd I dont knoe anyone in this area. Tinder is very dry. And so I went in for a big the other day because I hadnt been embraced by another human in like months. He flipped out and said he "doesnt touch guys" .. I just want a hug):
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Your post reminded me of this https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/9nt8qa/til_male_affection_and_physical_contact_wasnt_a/?utm_source=reddit-android
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My brothers and I are totally ok with this kind of thing. Theres absolutely nothing weird about it and it makes me sad that society has a problem with it
What I noticed in my city are the Indian guys.
They do a lot of physically intimate things (hold hands, hug, very close spaces) and it’s pretty interesting.
From New Zealand btw. Our culture is fairly westernised, so it’s interesting seeing the difference in how men act from another culture which contrasts ‘the norm’ (stoic, physically fit males, isolated farmers or whatever)
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That's cool, man. My male friends and I share a lot of intimacy with each other. Hugs, compassion, "I love you"s all over the place. We all know it's platonic and are comfortable with it.
Funnily enough, one of my best friends has a girlfriend who had a nightmare about he and I hooking up. Hehe, so there might have been something in her unconscious mind that's biased her against platonic affection between males.
Bottom line, I love my mates and have no concern for those who find it problematic.
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That’s a bridge too far for me. Hugs are ok. Kisses on the cheek as a greeting are ok. I’m not cuddling you unless you’re my young child or romantic interest. But do you, man. Just don’t do you on me. 😂
This is definitely a “no thanks” for me. A hug at reunions and that’s that.
Cuddling in general is something you do with animals and babies.
I'm a junior in HS, and I've recently joined the school play. My male friend group is very diverse, including band, football & other sports players, and general nerds. We've all become accustomed to just legitimately hugging each other and putting our arms around each other, and we don't really care it's in public; we even compliment each other on our looks (like, we tell each other that the other is handsome or looks good in a shirt, stuff that's not typically 'normal'). We're heterosexual (as far as we know), but we're just secure in our masculinity and genuinely enjoy being around one another.
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Hey power to ya.
For me though that's definitely not happening. It's nothing to do with culture or social norms or anything. I feel instinctively repelled by the idea of any sort of 'cuddling' or platonic touching of my male friends. Maybe it's because I'm 'territorial' in a sense- I need my physical space and intrusions are unwelcome.
Especially for a prolonged physical interaction, it absolutely does not appeal to me in any way except for women I'm romantically interested in.
Maybe this has something to do with my disposition/temperament in general because I've always hated touching, even amongst family. I only seek it out with women I see as potential partners, and that just feels natural to me.
Again, glad to hear it and feel free to continue! To me it is definitely weird though.
Naw man naw... i shuddered thinking about it. Though im not a fan of 99% of people touching me but..
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I have to agree with OP. I can’t imagine a healthy relationship where an SO would be jealous of this. Ice been with my highschool sweetheart for 20 yrs, and ours was wrought with loads of unhealthy practices for the first half at least. Still can’t imagine being jealous over this even then, though. No reason to be. I’d take it as a good sign, honestly. Being comfortable in ones sexuality enough to share intimacy like that is refreshing.
jealousy comes from fear of losing something that you have. if op is not bisexual, there is no way touching would lead to intimacy or them falling in love with the guy and leaving relationship to be in relationship with the bro or loss of affection with their partner.
i think reasonable boundaries surrounding physical affection and intimacy can be healthy, all comes down to the execution and individual couple's preferences.
you've got me curious, so i'd like to ask: if physical affection like cuddling with someone besides than your significant other is ok, then what crosses the line? nuzzling? spooning? kissing?
We are talking about a heterosexual male with his heterosexual male friends arm draped across his shoulders. Am I missing something? That’s as innocent as it can get, really.
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Just asked my gf this, she said no outside cuddling allowed and I tend to agree. Maybe I was just born too early.
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Like if you’re spooning with someone and it starts getting a little weird I could see a SO getting mad. But if it’s platonic that sounds like an issue with the SO not you for them getting mad. My philosophy is usually that people who are gonna cheat will cheat. There’s no point in stressing about it. Nothing you do or say will stop them from cheating so why worry? If it happens just break up with them or talk to them about it. But obsessing over it is super unhealthy. Just have faith your partner cares about you and if they don’t move on.
If you're gonna cheat you'll cheat, but what about all of the areas of grey between "acceptable and platonic" and "unacceptable and cheating". You might think spooning is acceptable and platonic, but if your SO doesn't care for it that's a discussion to be had. Holding hands, sleeping in the same bed, same thing. Some people wouldn't appreciate their SOs having that level of affection with an outside party. So rather than "why worry" I'd say make sure communication lines are wide open and discuss this type of thing.
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Yeah this is what I mean lol. I wasn’t even talking females, I stipulated with male friends and she said no.
Yeah that’s uh that’s not the coolest thing I’ve ever heard. I hate when people on reddit start bashing someone else’s relationship (beyond like one minute thing you know nothing else about it), so I’m not gonna say anything bad. However I would really stress there’s absolutely nothing wrong with hugging or touching a friend.
Hmm. This is coming from the perspective of someone with 5 brothers that definitely show physical affection. It usually starts with s little wrestling n ends with hanging an arm across the shoulders or resting feet across their lap. Same with my sisters. but I imagine feeling this close to a friend, to feel comfortable n like you are as close as brothers with a few friends would be something to encourage in your SO, not deny.
Listen I’m not proposing kiss your friends lol. But hugging your dad is a great feeling. You enjoy hugging him because you love your dad right? I’m sure you have some friends you love. There’s friends I have that I would take a bullet for. Why is it strange to hug someone that I love?
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Idk man, I’m sure it was nice but I just don’t see myself broing down like that. Maybe I was raised to avoid male intimacy for fear of homosexuality. Which sounds ridiculous, dudes have kissed each other for thousands of years but in the past fifty it became the only sure cause of buttsex.
Maybe I was raised to avoid male intimacy for fear of homosexuality
That's definitely how it us for me. Like watching that friends video linked above, I totally get it. But it would be subconsciously weird for me to do that, even though I'm not consciously homophobic.
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As a man from the Midwest, I cannot imagine anything I'd like to do less than cuddle a male friend. Maybe I'm repressed? But I'll pass.
I cuddle with my best bro and I love it. Granted we're also having sex, but we were cuddle buddies first. With or without sex, having a bro you can comfortably cuddle with is awesome.
Yeah I think someone put this Simon pegg and Nick Frost story somewhere in this thread that’s basically along those lines lol. The quote is like “if you cuddle and find out you want to fuck, great you’re gonna have a really fun time. If you don’t wanna fuck then you just get to cuddle” or something like that. Really a no-lose scenario type situation
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As someone who has seriously cuddle/intimacy-starved in life, CUDDLE PARTYYYY! Seriously though, apparently this is an actual thing!
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