Isn't there already a handful of ventures out there doing exactly this?

• Inkbunny is FA but without the CP ban
• Furry-Network is FA but run by the same people who run e621.
• Weasyl/Sofurry are competing for the same demographic and suffer for it.

This will be built up as something that is unlike what has become standard for the furry community entirely, it will barely be associated with that title. An antidote for toxicity, not a salad dressing.

FN got a new manager entirely from somewhere else recently, from what I understand, so theres that.

As far as I know, "switching" websites relies heavily on catering to the community at large to begin with, not just a niche few. But I suppose that's ultimately what your goal of the website is, really.

https://xkcd.com/927/

^^^ This ^^^

i agree as well

Totally agree.. What really needs to happen is for the furry community as a whole to burn down. only from the ashes could something better be born. Only when all competing sites are dieing, will a new and better one rise to take everyones place. With what Jasonfex is proposing, we'll just get even more split up.

Too true

What do you envision? What are you building? What are you running from? What problem are you solving?

Inventions succeed by solving a problem. Your last journal is that you're angry that attending conventions devolves into drama. How is a new site going to combat that?

I wish i had the background you needed for this :3 ! it seems like a great idea! best wishes for this endeavor !

I'm so down for something like this... I tossed ya a note.

This sounds like a superb idea ! i only have a little experience in moderation ( i moderate Trusted-Artists on here) so i doubt i could help out. i am seriously excited to see what comes from this.

Dude I am so down! I'm not a tech person, but if I can help I'd love to get involved in a platform that moves away from the high-school drama filled mentality that is most of this fandom.

I fully support tabs that block certain "uncomfortable fetishes" while browsing. Kinda like a filter that sites like FA and Deviantart DESPERATELY needs. Do that, I'd happily join up.

those filters would be SO welcomed!

LOL, you have no idea. The horrors I've seen....

*slowly nods* i'm all for "to each their own" but i don't have to see all of it

Free speech for all but, allows us to look at the stuff we actually want. We have technology that can remove brain tumors, I'm pretty sure an art filter is something we can come up with. Highly adjustable with lots of settings. ^_^

Well the problem would be people properly labeling said images themselves when posting them. Same thing with the current FA, where some people don't even use the tags, therefore the image is only able to be found via title or description.

*shrugs* Make a tutorial video on youtube then. Walk em through it. If you provide the tools for one's success, then the only excuse for failure is their own incompetents.

Well most people wouldn't bother even looking those up since its seen as something VERY insignificant. And most would just post the picture with a tiny description and POSSIBLY ownership and artistic citations.

If you got a better idea man, lets hear it. We're all open here and ready to learn.

Well one way is to have the “basic” tags made mandatory before posting. Just like how FA has those tabs you can open up and select the gender, species, the theme of the art and what kind. That way, for those that don’t wanna bother with putting in labels would have to. Or at least be giving the most basic searchable description of said image. And also not having a broad general topic that covers everything. This way, the search function could be a bit more viable. Course, that also means putting work into the search function and working that over, but that’s a different situation.

Better then my idea. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'd suggest user-tags that way the community helps with it. I have some people I follow with no tags, and if the community just goes "Oh this is a Tiger. I'll tag it for them Tiger." With people approving with +s to make that tag more to the top, as well, and the artist able to remove tags as they see fit if they need to... I just think it might be some more 'work' for the community, but be more accurate, overall.

It CAN work with community managing tags. However I can see things getting out of control rather quic with trolly ones and ones that are completely incorrectly labeled. And that’s IF people bother doing it in the first place. And with artists who amass a load of pictures, having to micromanage the tags that pop up would be a chore. It’s kinda trying to find the best and most effiecient way for content creators and commission posters.

FA tags are mostly useless which is why mostly no one uses them. If they supported more ways to use them (ex: negative search) and also had enforcement on use (e621 style) then it'd be much better.

What demographic are you aiming for exactly?

How is it not going to be like FA or the other websites like it?

Need to think outside of the box for this one. The entire point I'm making is I don't pander to existing demographics at all, this is something that is not designed as an FA killer or competitor. It will generate it's own user-base sheerly due to the feature-list at play and the experience that ultimately offers.

If you've seen my previous endeavors into Fursona Maker, Round Robin etc you'll have a vague idea of the direction I'm taking the platform.

I personally am not considering your idea to be an FA killer or competitor based on demographic, but the simple fact that it's a service that sounds like it's going to be of the same general idea of DeviantArt, FA and others. That's actually entirely fine! Competition breeds quality.

Unfortunately I don't recall much of Fursona Maker or Round Robin.

I don't plan to be like DA etc at all. A better perspective to have is more akin to Twitch or Steam. I'm putting a heavy focus on the community features and incentives to participate in healthy ways.

Combo that with a extensive moderation tools for the creator, robust filters and routine community events and you have yourself a great recipe for a fun environment to create and share.

Will it be more commission focused?

For example cracking down on scammers or artists that have abused their wait times?

I plan to have a scoring system tied directly to artists commission tab, of which can be viewed on any piece of artwork that is considered 'open' (Meaning consumers can view your prices with one click).

Consistently offer a shoddy service and you'll end up with a bad rating, making 'Artist-beware' irrelevant. Likewise to avoid scammers, the ARTIST can provide a rating for the commissioner. Win-win for everyone, most importantly civility and community health.

We will not take down any artists for poor business practices, the score should speak for itself and it becomes the consumers responsibility.

Exactly this

And herein lies a big problem. Moderation is equated with censorship by a number of people.

You have to moderate it, or regardless of the system, it will be abused by people who attempt to game it.

But at the same time, if you moderate, the people who are negatively affected by that moderation will call favoritism and censorship. You would have to be careful that those calls of favoritism and censorship are not legitimate. What is acceptable and not acceptable on this platform? Are those rules strictly adhered to when moderating?

This is part of the platform that would need careful consideration.

It will only be moderated initially to figure out the fine tuning. Basically play-testing to make sure we didn't create any highly exploitable loopholes like voting yourself up on a mirrored account.

Once things have a very high approval rating, folks can mostly moderate their own content feed. Scores will matter only to those that deem it useful. I certainly do not enjoy firing blind when it comes to commissioners at all. That kind of consistent information seems super useful to me. It also helps me not worry about charge-backs from cheap scumbags.

Hmm, I'm interested in how things would be selected to appear on the content feed. Sounds like the thoughts you have on your commissioning system sounds like Ebay (Remember to leave a positive review!), not that that's a bad thing.

Anyway, some form of moderation will likely be necessary. The other examples that you've listed in other comments (steam,twitch) have had to use moderating teams to answer certain abuses of their platform at times, and as LShadow was saying, some complaints will likely be there and be unavoidable.

For example, you listed earlier that people could monitor their own feeds, leaving staff to deal with violence and targeted harassment. Keep in mind that individuals have VERY different ideas on what "Targeted harassment" means, and these views are usually heavily weighted by political views (sadly, at least at the moment). You obviously don't want people to get doxxed or have violent mobs riled up against them on your platform, but a line has to be drawn somewhere about what is no longer targeted harassment or incitements of violence.

I just want to emphasize the importance of having a clear terms of service, and having moderators that enforce those rules fairly and without going beyond them. It'll be a tough challenge. I'm glad you have it on your radar.

Tracking multiple metrics and feeding them into positive incentives has the added benefit of giving moderators a plethora of information to work with when it comes to finding credibility for harassment claims. Suspensions would obviously reduce ones score dramatically, having a decay time based on good behavior. People with terrible scores will have lessened privileges.

FA has a really bad system of rewarding 'cleaning the slate' and just changing to a new identity. Do that on this platform and lose all your leveling progress. I'm creating a lot of incentive to be consistent and genuine in order to thrive.

Yooooo thissss, this sounds amazing.

I love what you are trying to do.. but i honestly think there is no solution to this issue.. shitty people will be just that.. shitty people, and if they have the drive enough to be a shitty person, they will find this other community and make it just as bad as it is here..

I would love to stay updated on what you decide to do though!♥

This comment... yes....

As much as reality is crippling, have faith. Humans have a remarkable ability to figure shit out. Give it time.

It's going to be very difficult to be shitty and be rewarded for it on this platform.

IMO, while I like your art. you kinda dug your hole here. Knowing the situation of what's actually going on, either apologize and try to actually fuck improve yourself. Or really stop being a dick?

Apologize for what? Being attacked on twitter endlessly by the toxic side of the furry "community"? Or should he apologize because someone told Kabier to die in hospital?

https://www.furaffinity.net/journal/8898349/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmULc5VANsw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDa9w_XoP7Y

Have a good, hard look through these, and reply if you actually examine these thoroughly.

Except that's not him owning up to his own part in all the bullshit going on. He can shape whatever bullshit how he wants.

Please elaborate on this "Bullshit" that he's part of. That word doesn't describe much.
Also, maybe tone down on the hostility? Because you're starting to show behaviour that of being on the wrong side of right.

No, you acting like 'bad words' detract my point is nothing but strawmanning. Jason brought a lot of the crap on himself by being openly hostile to others and now is playing the victim card, so him whining about 'hostility' I could genuinely care less.

That means you do care, at least a little.
(I suggest yo listen to Word Crimes, my dude)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ovi7uQbtKas

Say what you want, I'm not wrong.

Correct grammar and wording is important, especially when it makes the difference between not caring at all and caring slightly.

It is only pedantic to point out grammatical issues in a common figure of speech; everyone knows what it means.

Then shouldn't you have a better personality than him, rather than practice what you claim Jason does? I don't see how you're solving any problems here, and you haven't provided examples of him being hostile.

Note that when you provide "Evidence", there's a difference between being defensively hostile and aggressively hostile. There is no significant problem with defensive hostility, as it is retaliatory; But aggressive hostility, where he starts arguments himself is problematic.

Go ahead and provide examples of Jason being aggressively hostile, specifically, targeted harassment.

So I'm pedant. *shrugs*

the fact that ANY of this exists in the first place, speaks for itself.

I don't think starting a new furry site will work. Most of the problems don't seem to be systemic, they seem to be cultural. I don't think they're the result of website design, I think they're the result of widespread, culturally-ingrained negligence, which is to be expected of a community that defines itself by its disconnection from reality.

Don't encourage people to try to fix the world, encourage them to try to fix themselves, and their relationships to their friends and local furry communities.

I think the thing is, if we go back to look at what the furry fandom was, it was a niche group of people who like furry themed art and other medium. It was when everyone started to come along to try and capitalize on the fandom that things turned south, because suddenly an influx of people came in and seemed to bring their influences, both good and bad with them.

If a new platform is going to be made, then at the door there's going to need to be a good gate-keeping system, otherwise, you're right, it'll be the same problem all over again.

You have the wrong perspective, that is the entire point of this new platform. Incentives will be everywhere to do good for both yourself and others. Same way Twitch incentives it's streamers to gradually increase their viewer engagement via achievements and tier-based rewards.

Hmm, maybe. Incentives structures are ultimately implemented and controlled by people, though. Whoever is at the helm has the power to alter the system and make exceptions, so something that seems systematic becomes personal pretty quickly.

It seems like the solution would be a messy public square and a large variety of private groups which each have their own standards, and whose members have enough time and energy to properly engage each other socially. In order for those private groups to do their job, they need to stay small, since the amount of energy it takes for a member to socially engage with the group increases exponentially with the size of the group.

Your idea might help some if it has a good system for people to form and manage their own groups, but it seems as though things like Telegram and Discord are largely already filling this niche right now. You might have to compete with them.

Think of Steam. It blew up by creating fantastic tools for the gaming community, and even recently stripped away their restrictions on adult content because it wasn't consistent with the 'By the players, for the players' message they stood for. Certain greedy companies have stripped off to make their own versions, but they all suck because it's in service exclusively to their own profit margin.

Think of positive re-enforcement as a vine, creators will flourish around a strong foundation or otherwise suffer like here on FA. Someone replacing me as a director wouldn't do much, as the site would need to be changed on every aspect to fall back into the same habits as what we are used to. What we see here is years of neglect and indecision.

Steam did have the Greenlight problem as well as their new means of getting fresh or "fresh" talent into game making for the Personal Computer market being much of the same as Greenlight with some extra bells and whistles; if any damn fool can make a game and throw it on there, then any damn fool WILL make a talent-free and/or dignity-free piece of crap to make a quick buck while they can get away with it. Conversely, if any damn fool can make a game, then any master artist can make their magnum opus on the cheap and get due payment for having talent and dignity in their work (like all artists SHOULD).

Ultimately, what I'm trying to say about the comparison is that it's apt, but double-edged.

That same green-light feature allowed us to get Amorous on steam. With the advent of NSFW content, allows us to even make furry games profitable without leaning so heavily on crowdfunding.

In the presence of overwhelming mediocrity, all you need is competent filters to find the content you enjoy. Providing spotlights for upcoming artists so they too can become those community figures.

I also think starting a whole new furry art site isn't going to help. We already have countless: Furaffinity, Inkbunny, Weasyl, Sofurry, etc. Each has different rules and site features, yet none has provided a magical solution for everyone. I'd suggest an app for the decentralized internet (blockchain, cryptocurrency, etc): I know that isn't a miracle fix either and some folks are tired of hearing about it, however those technologies are the closest we can get to ditching central authority while maintaining some structure.

My own experiences make me feel you on what you are saying. I sure support what you are trying to do!

Breaking off to form your own personal slice of the fandom isn't a solution. This has been done countless times over the decades, people getting sick of the same old toxic behavior and leaving to form their own cliques.

It just ends up fragmenting the fandom even more, and lo and behold those splinter groups always run into the same problems as the places they've left. You can't recycle the same people & behavior, and expect a different outcome.

You're never going to stop FA from being the main site for the fandom. We all know how shitty it is as a website, both in terms of management & technically. But it's simply where all the traffic is, accept it.

The real answer is to stop the silly passive-aggressive behavior, and stay in the fire. If the fandom matters that much to you, you have to stay. Yeah, there's probably no changing a lot of them, real change has to come from within ultimately.

But most of the pieces of work out there aren't even that brave tbh. They tend to have little going for them, they crumple easily. This is their outlet, their one little slice of popularity. Of course they don't wear it well, they can barely take care of themselves.

Stay, be the good people that you guys claim to be. Let your actions show the way. That's the only real way to change the fandom. All the words, attention grabbing, and splintering off of groups isn't going to do squat.

Stop seeing the community as a collective with a single identity. FA is not in service to me, it never was. Why should I support something that directly contradicts what I would like to do and achieve? I am not loyal to a platform, I am loyal to my supporters and the best way I can interact with them is with a better foundation.

My point is I WELCOME people to stay on FA. What I will build is not for the passive, it's for active members that actually want to make a difference. Those hungry for community participation will struggle here, the tools simply do not exist. Said platform bears no threat to the furry community, if anything it will finally offer an avenue where people can be proud of the title. Something can't grow with bad soil.

I am not acting at all by doing nothing and complaining. What you are seeing is an attempt to bring out the good those that are willing to try.

If I could, I'd definitely help you!! But sadly my tallents are quite limited here. I'd absolutely love to be updated on all this though!!

I've personally had a handful of bad experiences with artists and customers in the community.

I have zero experience.
But i support this.

Sounds very interesting.
Actually I find it’s a very nice idea, especially since the flaws in the “alternatives” are very obvious, even if you only glance at it.

DA? A mess with weird rules, hard to search for stuff and overall tough to navigate through.
SF? Little traffic and slow interface. The layout also never failed to confuse me even right to this day.
Weasyl? Again, little traffic and similar to SF.
E621? Well… Imageboards… no need to say more.

I can’t do anything beyong basic early 90s html lol, but I sure would give this project a closer look to see what it’s like :3

Most of the existing art sites are full of issues really. Furaffinity is the Communist China of the fandom and internet: Post a bad drawing or comment something you shouldn't have said, you can get banned at any moment and disappear without warning. Inkbunny is better than FA in some ways, but has to make some of the same mistakes in others... it does however get nearly as much traffic as FA and provide a working alternative. Sofurry is far better as far as rules go, but extremely little traffic and no adoption. Weasyl has the same flaws and also as little adoption as Sofurry. Deviantart is strict as all heck, everywhere you look there's banned accounts littering the comment sections... you can't even post NSFW content there at all.

The only place that's sincerely awesome in my book is Aryion / Eka's Portal. Yes, I know... it's a website and gallery for vore fans and not everyone is into that. I've been there for years though, and honestly it's the difference between eating canned food full of poisonous chemicals versus food your grandma cooks as she did back in the day; There's rarely any drama going on there, and when there is conflict it's handled fairly and without using excess force. Not to mention there's nearly no restrictions on what art you can post, they censor nothing for no one regardless of how offended they claim to feel... instead they offer flexible tools to watch and block tags you like or dislike by yourself! If someone hasn't tagged a submission properly anyone can suggest and vote for a correction, thus the community manages the accuracy of submission information. Eka's is a textbook example for how a website should be ran!

How do you forsee this affecting career artists who have invested into establishing themselves in this community?

Up to them if they want to use it. As mentioned, this isn't a competitor as much as it is just more enjoyable to use. It's pretty consistent that anyone that gets even a moderate amount of popularity here suffers a wealth of bullshit. Those that enjoy toxicity can stay in the swamp.

You've obviously been thinking a lot about this, but I get the sense that you've been doing so through a filter of extreme anger. It seems like you hold anyone who would want to stay in pretty low esteem, and don't want to consider any reasons for it beyond "enjoying toxicity." I'll tell you why I would want to stay: I'm tired. I've seen a dozen communities I've been a part of wither and die, and while FA may have its shitty moments it has at least been stable. On top of that, I'm a nobody here—if I go elsewhere, I will be a fucking ghost. In that, I think I represent the masses of FA. We're not big-shots like you are, and nobody will follow us. All of the casual connections will be lost. So I'll cut my question to what's at its core: Who will this exodus hurt, how will it hurt them, and is that really okay?

"Viewers will have extensive filters..." I have been wanting something like this for years, so I am very happy to see you mention this.

I completely support the idea of creating an entirely new community that acts, not just as a new furry Twitter or FA, but as a larger portal. I have experience in web "design," but it has been a long time and I am not a programmer. I am more of a designer and ideas man, and I have tons of ideas on how to make a larger, better furry portal, as well as ideas on how to make things easier for content posters and viewers alike. What I have been envisioning for years, is one stop for all one's furry needs. I also have plenty of mod experience, on forums, in chatrooms, on Telegram, etc and I often joke with my friends that if I were to win the Powerball, I'd just go to IMVU, buy FA, find some programmers and make all my ideas happen. Fat chance of that though. I would be interested in talking with you about these ideas if you desire because I would love a community that revolves around freedom of speech and expression.

Of course, the real challenge is getting people to migrate. It will take a lot of work and innovation.

This is where we might all run into a little problem: We collectively agree that the furry community has become as toxic as pretty most other communities out there, however we may not agree on the exact reason as to why... which itself is a source from which toxicity emerges.

My view is the same as on most issues in the world: Toxicity exists because everyone has things they're sensitive to but cannot react to accordingly. If someone is offended by something, be it for a legitimate reason or a bad experience, they consider that a free pass to treat other people like garbage as well as using any power they have to cause as much harm to them as possible (I'm mostly looking at site owners, event organizers, etc). Everything needs to be extreme: Either you're with me and you're good, either you're against me and you're bad. People need to understand that no issue is ever going to be solved by finding and crucifying "the bad guy", but by communicating and understanding the source of everyone's views then being willing to accept alternatives!

For my own failures, picking extremes is one thing I refuse to do. Even when it comes to issues like Donald Trump, I hit on the guy when he does something stupid but can admit when he's done something good. Even to you Jasona I've said when I disagree with something, such as those leaked N-word jokes which I still think are very inconsiderate... however I'm not going to go around crying that you're a monster, especially since a lot of what you say and do is very fair and accurate, and at the end of the day don't support any real explicit harm toward others.

As far as the solution goes, there are two things to look at in my opinion. First people need to chill the fuck down, and understand that there's no need to attack everyone whenever they don't agree on a sensitive view; Don't generalize and also ask those people exactly what they support and why they support it. If you want someone to change, correct them instead of insulting then banning them. Case in point: I've met a few folks who are conservative nationalists... while their views on immigrants did bother me quite a bit, I still talk to some of them, and guess what they aren't necessarily different from those on my side of the fence as far as a lot of issues go.

For the second thing, how I believe the fandom should interact online, I will have to tout my favorite tech domain once more: The decentralized internet initiative. A lot of the toxicity on many sites happens not just because of the community, but because of admins abusing people in the community with bad site rules. It strongly feels like the time has come for a decentralized art gallery... one where artists can post whatever they want, without fear of being banned for making an immoral drawing or saying bad comment. Initiatives like BitTube and DTube are already providing exactly such alternatives to Youtube... Diaspora and Mastodon are offering free alternatives to Facebook and Twitter... the time is coming for something to offer such an option for Furaffinity and Inkbunny.

I feel like making a new site would be doing exactly what you say we shouldn't do by moving to a different site. This part here: "redressing of the familiar rebranded as something new. There is little reason to migrate to another platform when the experience is the same with a few new bells and whistles".

I think the only reason people would move is BECAUSE of the few new bells and whistles, because honestly, you can't get rid of the shitty people. I noticed in one of your comments you said that you can rate artists and then the artist can also rate the commissioner. Your next comment mentions that it will be hard to be shitty and be rewarded. I think what you are missing is that people who want to be shitty are generally rewarded simply by being shitty; they enjoy it and need nothing to encourage it. Also, they don't have to be a commissioner to be shitty, so you would need a system that lets you rate everyone, not just those who buy/sell.

This would most likely encourage exactly what you claim to want to discourage; the hierarchy of this site. Say person A doesn't like person B. Well, if you have an open rating system, person A simply has to rate B as bad and encourage everyone else to do so. If you have a buy/sell system. Person A could have all their followers and such buy the cheapest art possible (many artists have some kind of something that is fairly low) and then give terrible ratings. You might say, oh but at least the artist then gets paid! But unfortunately, especially when the site is new, these ratings could completely tank the artists reputation, leading those who discover them to potentially write them off. Basically, it leaves way more room for abuse then FA does.

I feel like FA doesn't have a huge toxicity problem. Sure, people suck, but people suck everywhere. Ignore them, block them, and if they encourage others to do it, report them (as that is a reportable offence). They don't really have anything but their words to be sucky with though. They can't tank your rating. Because FA isn't a judge a book by it's cover kind of site. I can't go on a profile, see a bad rating, and be like welp, not looking at this artist!

I don't know, just a few ideas. The only problem I have with FA is really the filtering system. If they added filters, I'd be completely happy! Oh, and I think it would be nifty if they had a "browse" option for journals, not just submissions.

I disagree, there are very successful platforms that work very well with tier-based leveling systems.

• You won't be able to mass down-vote someone as a mob because there will be no connection between commissioner and creator. That is a one-time exchange. The weight of ones scoring power would also depend on how consistent they are. If you do nothing but down-vote people you don't like and barely support the community, you'll struggle to unlock additional privileges. Not to mention artists will quickly learn to avoid you if you get a bad track record with everyone you interact with. These abilities will also have cool-downs based on level and time spent on the platform.

• There will be multiple metrics at play to determine ones community rating. You can't upvote spam yourself with a bot and expect to see results if you have no viewer engagement or positive community participation. I've been around the block, I know how these systems are abused. Look to e621 for example, they use the downvote feature to hide opinions they disagree with.

People that want to be toxic are going to be fighting a very steep uphill battle that is far easier to achieve on FA. Most act malicious because it's easy and low effort.

Well, I'm not going to lie, I would actually check out the site if it comes to be. I'm not one to be like, oh it must be bad so I won't go look!

Unfortunately, it also sounds like it will be a huge uphill battle for artists like me. The ones with few watchers because their art isn't very great yet. Especially if you need to be social. If that rating is mostly dependent on commissions and socialness, I have a feeling I'll never get anywhere xD

I'm not sure you will ever be able to remove toxicity from the internet. Everyone has their opinions, and nowadays, a lot of people feel the need to vehemently defend their opinions at the cost of denying others their rights to an opinion. You can have a great rating, but if someone wants to call you out (even if what they say is a complete lie) their will always be people who are willing to believe them. Whether because they are friends, don't like the other person, or even because they are jealous for some reason. Just look at this site. You have tons and tons of watchers, you get awesome reviews, many positive comments and favorites. Yet the moment someone opens their mouth about you, whether to say something nice or mean, tons and tons of people jump on either side and cause these huge arguments.

Sorry if I sound all pessimistic, it is definitely not meant that way! If you can pull of the ideals that you are talking about, then I would definitely be on board. I'm just more apprehensive that this will not work quite as it is intended! Maybe you can bring me on board and I'll just play Devil's Advocate xD

The problem is though is the owners of these platforms tend to align with one side of the argument and take action accordingly right down to censoring one side far more than the other. Part of that problem is now you also got the folks who control the flow of money in on this as noted by what happened to Gab.

I don't think it's so much about removing toxicity from the internet as it is running a platform from a more neutral stance; more like how things were before this far-left hysteria took hold and started actively silencing their opposition through slander/libel and going after their livelihood. On this platform Antifa, despite abundant proof that they are a violent hate group, is allowed to operate freely here. You can identify as antifa and you won't be in trouble. Identify as the opposition, that will not be the case because the owner of this site is a self-professed member of antifa and believes they do some bad things but the end goal is noble. The Nazis used the same argument. Restoring ownership of the lands to the German people while scapegoating the immigrants. The same with the Fascist regime in Italy.

The problem is though it's a matter of perspective. For example, to these people being anti-illegal immigration is somehow equated to being anti-immigrant and therefore we are arbitrarily branded as Nazis accordingly. When you have these major platforms that can hide behind private property law to usurp en mass someone's right to free speech for /any/ reason at all even for reasons not even remotely associated with the platform... we have a very real problem. That power, in my opinion, has allowed extremist voices to have very real power that they won't hesitate to use against anyone they declare an enemy. We need to take away that power or at the very least severely limit it's scope.

A stepping stone to that a platform that is centered on neutrality rather than protecting people's feelings because someone said something mean online or posted a drawing they don't approve of. I'd prefer a legal solution that protects the flow of money such as disallowing banks and payment processors to discriminate to the point they can can affect the political arena to the extent they do today. This whole nonsense of doing business with someone by default implies they support them is why extremist voices have power. It worked in Nazi Germany. It worked in Cuba. It worked in the USSR. It worked in Fascist Italy. It's working today. We really need to take away that power because history has shown us... mankind's worst deeds have been done under the guise of good intentions.

I'm not sure that the above suggested platform would even remotely achieve what you say here though. I mean, Jason has already said he'd be moderating it. And I've seen plenty of stuff from him that would suggest that this would lead to some extreme bias as well.

It's hard to achieve neutrality, and one could argue, that neutrality isn't even a good thing. People are inherently biased. And though admitting your biased is great, it's not a solution and doesn't mean you wont act on them, even by accident. Also, neutral is kind of a matter of opinion as well, and has different extremes. While I don't think people should be labeled as Nazis because their opinion is different, I also do not think they should be allowed to go on ahead and shout hate rhetoric. And therein lies a major issue.
Do you want to be on a site that lets people say extremely hateful things? Regardless of side, far left, far right, far topsy turvy whosy whatsy. Most d ont want to see that. Which means the moderator then needs to decide what is too extreme. And boom, right there is bias, right there is going to be silencing that some people will not agree with. It won't be neutral the moment someone steps in and says you c ant say that, even if it is totally valid to block or silence them.

People constantly fail to accurately iterate my political beliefs, because they are so alien in 2018.

"I've seen plenty of stuff from him that would suggest that this would lead to some extreme bias as well."

Like what? How does free speech twist into some kind of motive? If you are concerned that if you let people speak they will vote against you, then your ideals are flawed and need challenge anyway. 80% of the population disavows Political Correctness and censorship is the only thing keeping it alive here.

Free speech cannot exist so long as you believe hate speech is exempt. Those 'Nazis' have the right to their opinion, no matter how much you detest it. So long as they don't incite violence or harass others, they are entitled to their believes just as much as you are. A truly free platform would challenge bigots anyway. That means the radical lefts are welcome just as much, but they will probably stay on FA for the bubble it provides.

No censorship means exactly that, no censorship. Soon as you define 'hate speech' you welcome the political bias you describe. This is a neutral platform just like Gab for furries. I have never interacted with a 'Nazi-Fur' and it honestly comes off as a political tactic to keep people hostile and paranoid at their own community.

This is exactly what I am saying though. There has to be some kind of rules. You just said that "So long as they don't incite violence or harass others, they are entitled to their believes just as much as you are". This is you defining something. This is you setting limits right there. You then follow it up to say no censorship. Well, those contradict each other. You can't have no censorship and then also censor those who harass or incite violence.
You would need to define what harassment means. You would have to choose what qualifies as inciting violence. You could leave it as ambiguous as you did in the prior comment, but then as soon as you censor someone for something, you'd be defining it. And it would probably cause even more backlash because how would they know what the limits are without you first defining them?

I guess all I'm really trying to say is, you can't make an entire website devoted to art and community without setting some rules, without defining something. And the moment you define anything, it will be biased in some way.

I have never spoke to anyone who was bigoted in any way. Or at least not openly, and to me. Have I run into people who were rude? Sure have. Have I run into random people messaging me to let me know they disagree with some policy I hold? Yep, run into that a few times. But I have never seen any actual evidence of a Nazi-Fur. For that matter, I haven't run into anything Antifa related. Unless you count people in comments calling people out saying they must be Antifa if they talk that way. Just like people will say you must be a Nazi-Fur if you talk that way. Does it mean that these two things don't exist? No, of course not. I imagine they do. What are the chances a community this size doesn't hold people with super-duper bigoted opinions who are willing to attack and defend those beliefs? But I also don't feel like they are nearly as prevalent as some people seem to think.

I truly hope this ideal site you talk about works out. Like I said prior, I would make an account. I would check it out and put some time into it. At the same time though, it seems like your answer to toxicity is to make hurdles for people to jump through to boost a score. This wouldn't be a huge deal for popular people, but what about people like me? I've invested a lot of time and effort into FA. What it's brought me is a small base of watchers and maybe a handful of people I would consider myself friendly with.
What kind of time and effort would a little known person, who isn't very good at art as of yet, need to put into this site to actually achieve...well...anything? Those of us that don't get commissions. Those of us who have trouble putting themselves out in a public space for these social event type things you mentioned. What will we do? You make it sound like toxic people will have a really hard time achieving a high score, but wouldn't this also limit people who aren't moving over to a new site and bringing along 1,000s of followers?

I'm also worried that you make this site, get it all up and running, only to find out your system was a good way to shoot yourself in the foot. You say the furry community is mostly leftists, many of whom promote this PC culture. You've also said here in this journal "let the community decide what resonates with them most". This seems like a recipe for disaster in my opinion. Like what will end up happening is people who don't like right, or far right views will just plain outweigh those who do hold those views. You said it'll be hard to abuse the system, that it'll lower your own score. But what if you simply don't like what someone does. What if they put out a piece that is cub, or feral, and people go crazy and suddenly that person has a low score. Or if they make a journal (or whatever the site will have) that holds right leaning views and a bunch of people on the left don't like it? Don't those people on the left have every right to dislike what the person said? Is it abuse for them to use whatever system is in place to lower the person on the right's score? And if a ton of them do it...well, seems like all you will have created is a platform that allows the majority to shoot down whoever goes against them. Not because they are toxic, but simply because the number of people with those beliefs is higher.

I know you said somewhere on here that it isn't targeted for people on FA. But let's be honest here, you are a furry artist. Making a journal calling for other people on a furry community to help you make this site. And once it's up, you, and all the people you recruit will tell their followers, hey check us out over here, or just check out this site! I don't think there are many people out there simply googling art sites that don't specify one type of art. I think what will happen is a ton of people from FA will go over there and give it a shot. And maybe it's amazing and they stick around. But you will still be pulling the vast majority of your numbers from one community that you find toxic, in part, because of how PC it is. Then you are handing that community the tools to publicly downgrade anyone they disagree with...
How will you combat that without coming off as someone right leaning who wants to censor those on the left? If you go in and manually bump up the rating for the people on the right because you feel it's unfair that they got downgraded because of their views...then aren't you just as bad as you claim FA is, only in the other direction? If you leave it alone, as you have said you will be, then all you have done is make a place for the PC crowd to basically enforce being PC because you will be punished by them otherwise. You could make it so that if more people try to lower someone's rating, then it has less and less effect based on the number of people submitting scores. But then, once again, you've shown a huge bias and have taken the power from the community. Basically doing what some governments do and saying, oh well you guys don't really know what you want, so you should have less of an impact!

Sorry for the huge post, I just really want clarification on some stuff :)

We need to shame bully's. Any behavior that deliberately creates harassment or encourage harassment must be shamed.

To define that better, what you believe or think or have an opinion on, does not create harassment. Like the real world, you must accept people around you who have different beliefs than you.

You can be an SJW or Nazi, yet, still not create or encourage harassment. EVEN THOUGH those beliefs are all about that, if you don't act on it, then it's fine. We already live in a diverse society, and the world isn't burning. Furries just need to accept that fact.

People are free to believe whatever they want, regardless of how toxic or dangerous the belief is. Which is a good thing, history time and again proves that people can live with each other, in peace, without the need of changing everyone's mind. Ironically, acts of trying to change everyone mind creates violence, it's like, humans are diverse by nature, crazy I know. The world will not die if everyone doesn't think like you, but it will definitely die when everyone does think like you.

The current combat to this problem is hating people that are hateful. That is an issue, gives those very people you want gone a reason to keep existing. All that needs to be done to stop the spread of an kind of group that promotes hate, is simply spread your own word how you don't agree with their beliefs. Fabian Tactics. Read a history book. As soon as you declare how they are the enemy and will fight them, not only have you devolved into them, but you also give them a reason to fight day by day. If your ideologies has an enemy, you absolutely need a physical enemy to keep existing. So don't give your enemy, yourself.

In summery, you can and should believe in whatever you want without harassment. If you disagree, well, that sucks for you. You cannot justify hateful ideology to combat hateful ideologies; read a history book and realize how much that utterly fails peace.

_____________________________________________

That being said, creating harassment or encouraging harassment is absolutely unacceptable. Your beliefs does NOT excuse that behavior by any means, there is no justification to for that or for you.

If you are against that idea, just think about what is happening now. Do you honestly believe that all the aggression and hatred being done today to the people you hate, is multiplied by 100, will fix the problem? By 1000x? How much bullying and harassment must be done until the problem is gone? Probably will be gone, when a bloody war starts. Once again, read a history book and mistakes won't be repeated.
_____________________________________________

In second summary, people should be allowed to believe whatever they want and punish anyone who harasses or encourages harassment. Beliefs are not the same as harassment, and there is no proof in the world that would prove that true. There are currently many people who want to fight, and will go around looking for fights. Punish that behavior.

That would be a good start for a healthy community. Create an even field that is very solid for everyone to stand on. In my opinion, that would be a good place to grow. And that's the important part, even. A good base is always even for everyone, regardless of who they are. (Hell, imagine if League of Legends players are not punished ONLY if they play mid-lane, things will get soooo fucking toxic) Not to mention, it will hopefully encourage aggressive furries to change their behaviors being more open, share opinions, block aggression.

I agree with the sentiment behind your statement here, but be veeeery careful.

"We need to shame bully's. Any behavior that deliberately creates harassment or encourage harassment must be shamed"

This is what a number of the people that you're targeting with this statement think they're already doing. Many SJWs, for example, would love this statement. Oftentimes even the people that take it too far believe that this is just what they're already doing.

I'll also point out two more quotes here:

"As soon as you declare how they are the enemy and will fight them, not only have you devolved into them, but you also give them a reason to fight day by day."
"There are currently many people who want to fight, and will go around looking for fights. Punish that behavior."

Again, I agree with the sentiment behind your post here (and I don't think you're technically contradicting yourself here), but be careful.

I agree, we need not play their game period. Hence why I'm opting for something completely different. No censorship, put the power in the hands of the creators and let the community decide what resonates with them most, offering only positive incentive to be civil and kind to others. The rest is up to the individual as to how they would like to tailor their experience. We merely provide the tools.

You think the community can thrive without policing?

You are right, the problem with SJWs they will shame others that have done the crime of disagreeing with them. SJWs take that statement to an aggressive extreme. Community leads absolute needs to be on top of behavior like that.

From what I understand of the hardware and software that FA runs on, it was jerry-rigged from the start and is essentially on life-supprt now. It needs massive upgrades soon. I don’t want to sign up for yet another website. I think FA needs to be rewritten from scratch. The beta theme looks nice, but it’s still running on top of an unstable infrastructure. There are lots of bugs that still haven’t been fixed for a long time (i.e. support for re-uploading text documents).

I do development for a living, so I'm definitely up for helping something like this get started, either with some bit of development help, consulting, servers etc.

Would be nice to see what comes out of this, however avoiding the internet mob mentality (well, North American internet really), is going to be quite a task xD

I'm sorry if this will be a wall of text I have no idea how much I will I write and how many things will go through my brain:

---

I'll start saying that I'm not a Kothorax' follower but I find most of his speech truth.

1. The furry fandom has grown toxic and 'retarded' (pass me the word, I know it's bad).
Whenever you try to meet someone new within the community is like throwing a 100 sided dice hoping to get a 1.
I've met them all: Passive-aggressive people, opportunists, drama-maker, sex-obsessed etc... etc...

2. Let's say you create this site with a lot of people helping you, how do you reduce the number of the toxic-furries?
The only way you could avoid underage people would be forcing people to upload an ID at the registration, that to resolve a problem
But there are absolutely no ways to avoid more than this, I mean what are the possibilities? Ban people from this new furry site, every time they make drama or the likes? That would take an absurd quantity of people dedicated to this project.
Then again could you really ban someone for making drama on FB/twitter/whatever, on your site that has 0 correlations? Because that's the only way to avoid all the furry-scum.

3. Then again (x2 combo) in your brand new site will CP actually accepted? People will always sustain that it is just fantasy | as ferals-arts are not zoophilia with the same reasoning, So creating a new site will already be splitting people even further just because of a so simple decision. (That IMO is totally avoidable with a blacklist)

4. I seriously hope if you create this site any kind of SJW/political group get destroyed and banned immediately, that's no place for it.

5. I seriously hope you find a solution to all this because I seriously have enough of the toxicity around furs.

Also if you need I could gather some ideas and try to throw them at you for a new site, but just ideas since I dropped every kind of computer programming when I was around 14

Every time I see people screaming about Cub being "CP" while being perfectly fine with all the feral and rape art I can't help but face palm.

I don't personally have a preference for cub but I've drawn it for others (using only my mind as reference mind you), to me it's still just mature characters interacting, they just happen to have younger looking bodies. At the same time I can see how the curiosity of a young character can be a draw to some. I like that trait in adult characters too, inexperienced but eager.
I don't really have any interest in feral either, except dragons, dragons are always relevant, but I wouldn't shun people that like more "realistic" feral art either. In most cases the feral characters are mature, sentient beings in control of their actions.

Sadly I think this is something that will never change in people. I have nothing against Jason, I generally think he's a decent guy who just speak his mind a lot, but it's obvious by the first reply to the first comment on this journal that he see cub as actual cp while as we know, being a-ok with feral.
Wouldn't surprise me if a bunch of people see this and add me to some blacklist for not being against cub, or feral for that matter :P But nothing of value would be lost.

CP= cubporn, also I'm fine with every kink as long as it is just fantasy

I'm so used to people only using that abbreviation for the real thing so I just assume. Which I guess is bad of me :P

I don't care if an artists is incredibly good, or if they only do it for commissions. I would like to see a site-wide ban on cub artists as well as feral porn artists, not just filters either; I want those artists barred from the site entirely. The problem is, there would be backlash from people who support those artists. Filters would be good for all the gore/vore crap that ceaselessly gets churned-out on FA, I don't really have a problem with those folks as long as I don't have to look at that shit on the front-page (fucking FA...). Still, if furries actually want to change the inner-workings of the fandom at whole, they need stop enabling cub/feral porn artists, because it IS a problem.

Kind of amusing because 4 of the 6 artists you watch does feral, and one of them does cub. But that's none of my business *sip*

^dis

Self-loathing isn't uncommon with people that hate stuff like this, they hate the fact that their brains like it.
It's like how a lot of homophobes are struggling with their sexuality. They want to ban it so they don't get tempted.

Just to back that up with data:
http://www.rochester.edu/news/show.php?id=4040
it has a link to the actual study that was done

Also the point has to be made over and over that reality and fantasy are not the same. If someone wants to see gore and vore in fantasy, then everything should be ok. We shouldn't be trying to shame people for having fantasy fetishes that would be immoral if acted out in real life.

It'll be a lot of work but I say you guys should go for it, I have no talent in web design or anything, but I wish you guys luck and if it ends up being as good as hoped I'll certainly join over.

Very important thing to realize, and the sooner all involved parties do, the better:

There will never be a time when we all get along.

I do not advocate cliquishness, but if there is someone who annoys you, you do have the option to just walk away from them.

Not one here has the right or the authority to make the furry fandom, or any part of it, into their personal plaything.

I wish you luck. I prefer to look for art I like and not stick to specific artists really so I help out that way. Other than that I mostly just help by not being part of the "community". I do not need that drama.

I dunno, man.. I admire the want to 'solve' the problem with toxicity, but this just sounds jaded and rather pompous.

Or maybe that's just me being my usual cynical and pessimistic self. :)
Regardless, if you do happen to go through with this, I wish you luck.

The video he shared came across to me that way too. I've been a part of this community now for 15 years and not once have I experienced anything remotely to what was described in the video.

Considering all the things described in that vid, you'd think a higher authority would've stepped in and shut this site down and all others like it by now.

Nonetheless if his endeavor is successful, awesome. But eventually those same ppl will slide in on that site

Same with me to a degree. If anything, I just chalk up that one person being a dick or not understanding something.
But then again. I'm a reallllllly obscure artist after all!
High end guys like Jason must get a random note demanding something free or garbled nonsense every other week.

True

I didn't watch the video, nor do I wish to. But I do watch other videos that have a more 'America in general' approach... so I do definitely know of the toxicity that he talks about.
That being said, I've never really encountered any of it myself.. but I'm more of an outsider.

In regards to this site, I have no idea what the video said.. but I do know this site allied itself with the extreme left a while ago, which is roughly when all the witch hunting started.. or maybe made it worse, I dunno.

I read and agree with a lot of what Jasonafex says about today's political climate/divisiveness/toxicity.. ..I'm just more of a doubting Thomas type in regards to just about everything. A site where everyone's welcome with little to no censorship and the community at large will decide this or that... I'll believe it when I see it, and even then I'm doubting it will work well with so little moderation.

"ALL content and views are treated equal, giving extensive tools for creators to moderate their own content, leaving staff to only have to deal with incitements of violence and targeted harassment."

I admire the ideal here, and should it truly be what you're going for, I would applaud it and support it wholeheartedly. I've seen statements from you on your twitter that have been very reasonable regarding political discourse in the country currently.

However, I'm also cynical, and I've also seen a number of things on your twitter and other platforms that are definitely divisive, and... not happy with the political left. It is very clear that you're a right wing political personality, and don't take kindly to those on (at least the far) left.

I worry what's happened is that since the furry community is largely left leaning (with some being far left leaning), you've been a target of harassment because of your views (by the far left), and your response to that is to try to separate from the community, and make your own platform that is more friendly to right leaning views. I worry that this concept gets taken too far, and it turns into a right-leaning community that shuns the left - the opposite of what pushed you out of this one. Echo chambers are what got us into this state of political divisiveness that we're currently in. I would worry about what system you would make to moderate the site, and how it is applied fairly so that you don't become the thing you hate, just on the other political side. I've read some of your ideas thus far, and I would love to ask more questions regarding them, but the reality is that you have no realistic need to respond to my concerns. I'm just a guy (only a sysadmin, not a web developer), and likely not your target audience anyway.

TLDR: I cautiously support your idea.

i agree with about 95% of this.

False, I am a classical liberal. I only have a problem with the radical left for their erection for censoring and doxxing others they don't like. Not to mention abandoning due process, civility, debate etc. I'm not 'right wing' simply because it's easier for them to swallow. Echo-chambers are exactly why the furry community is in it's current state, the point of a decentralized, free speech platform is to tear down those divides.

If you don't consider me liberal, you need to double check what the definition of liberty is.

(Feel free to correct me if you disagree with statements I make, or send me a note if you don't wanna keep clogging up the journal. I honestly enjoy the discussion. Maybe I should hop into your discord at some point)

I would agree that you're a 'classical liberal'. There's a reason that I didn't use the term in my original post though, because "liberal" and "classical liberal" have become different terms in terms of popular usage.

Self Identified "liberals" include a lot of people on the "left" or democratic end of the spectrum. If this term is being used correctly or not, I don't know for sure. It's possible it might be used incorrectly in terms of the book definition. In terms of the popular understanding of the specific term however, it's most commonly used for people on the political left.

Now "Classical Liberals", on the other hand, are people that usually have more right leaning ideas, though a lot of them identify more as libertarians. The movement sources back to people like John Locke, if I remember right, and focuses on absolute freedom and limitation of the power of government (something that libertarians and conservatives mostly have in common). I'll cite Paul Ryan, Jordan Peterson, and Dave Rubin as examples. I've seen a number of sources saying something along the lines of:

'Americans use the term 'classical liberal' very differently then Europeans do. Classical liberalism has more in common with American Conservatism'

I'm not saying that being a 'classical liberal', being right leaning, being a conservative, whatever is a bad thing. To be honest, whether or not you're a liberal wasn't really what I was going for anyway. I was focusing on right versus left. You seem to express a lot of right leaning views, I know that furries are usually pretty far on the left. I worry that even with the best intentions of policing things with equality (or not policing them at all, which counts), if everyone becomes disagreeable, you might unintentionally support the right leaning community more then the left, which I imagine is kinda the same thing that happened over here, just in reverse.

I welcome you to prove me wrong though, and honestly hope you will!

I don't find 'right wing' offensive, I just know people love the logical slippery slope to go from 'different view' to 'Fascist Nazi.'. Right becomes 'alt right' and then they're banned from FA due to false pretenses.

A visual aid for political wings can be seen here. Progressive activists are your SJWs, which has basically become the standard for FA. The other 92% of society is too right wing for the furry community.

Ive no experence in the fields you require but would love to help in any way possible if it dose come around, but yes, there is more to it than just that, as other comments support. Best of wishes for this though.

I can't do shit technically, be just know I'm down for getting the word out if I can. I see enough of these snowflakes, complaining all the time, ruining everyone's lives. I mean, I'm English. We're like whiny cunt central right now, every little thing is being attacked by these jumped up little wankers. I don't wanna see the fandom fall to their kind. There's a lot of good furs out there, people who need this community for income or just not feeling alone. We owe it to them to keep the real meaning of being a furry alive.

So if I can do anything, I will. I'm more of a "in the shadows" kinda guy, but the more bodies the better, eh?

This certainly sounds like both a positive and interesting idea. I did not comment on the previous journal but I certainly agree with most of the points you made. While I don't have any experience with web design or the like I'll def be keeping an eye on your journals in the future as a new hangout that isn't plagued by the toxicity this fandom can generate sounds very appealing to me.

Good luck in your future endeavors! Look forward to seeing more content. Always love seeing your and Kabier's stuff!

I just wanna see Jason drawn some tiddles.

I hope this works out well!

You know, I've had ideas like this bouncing around my head for a long time. Ideas that are probably too ambitious for us to pull off, but at its core, I've always wanted a more community-driven place with a tiered permission system and/or gamified rewards & medals that has proven successful on places like steam/stackexchange. The community-driven part is an important differentiator, as what we have now are simply like galleries where people just post things individually, and if you weren't already 'watching' them, you'll probably never know about what they're doing.

There's no easy way I know of here to really drive ideas/projects that people want, keep up with those projects as they make progress, or to reward people for their contributions. You could say just go to Patreon/Indeigogo/etc, but I'd rather those kind of big project features be built-in both to avoid fragmentation (i.e. needing accounts on multiple 3rd-party sites and then somehow tying them together) and also so the fees they take stay in the community. I mean there's a ton of features that could be added or greatly improved upon. We have basically nothing here. It's easy to underestimate convenience until you realize how much time it saves you, and how that affects user engagement on a platform.

A lot of passion behind this project, I can respect that.

It's a little late in the evening now (I usually only check FA once a day, just did so tonight on a whim), but I'll note you in my past experience and what I'm willing to help with either tomorrow or later in the week. :)

I would help. Though i doubt my Mod experience with MC servers or Discord servers qualifies as good enough experience in moderation staff for such a big project. I wish this project the best of luck though.

I wanna help as much as I can!!

This is fascinating! Definitely interested to see where this goes (: Good luck!

Camps? :P

Well if you wanna start a new platform, I suggest finding ways to harden your platform against being taken down, look at what sites like minds are doing to solve the current crisis because of the trust that formed.
What gate keeping measures do you need in place to ensure the community doesn't devolve back into a soup of madness? how do you ensure site staff remain true to the site's mission?

Lastly, funding? what's going to fund this new site? some of you people your trying to get away from will be actively trying to keep you from using the financial system if their vindictive enough.

Yeah I'm aware of the rampant censorship afoot on the mainstream social media platforms. If you follow my Twitter, you can see I'm following the efforts of Gab.ai like a hawk. If they show they can exist outside of the stranglehold of silicone valley, we can make a community disconnected from the toxic political cancer here on FA.

So the solution to fix how the community behaves... is a new website? I'm lost now.

Good luck, I'm rooting for you.

I'm up for this. I've not experienced much toxicity myself, but as I'm trying to grow and gain a bit more of an audience, I have no doubt I will. I hope this works out as you hope it will. A place that puts down more toxic behavior would go a fair way to (If the site gets enough of an audience) start conditioning people away from that mindset.

I don't have any of the experience you need, so I'll not send you a note ('m sure you are sifting through plenty already), but I hope you'll keep us posted, as I'd love to give the place a shot.

How is this going to make money? What you are talking about will require top experts in UX and those kind of people charge top dollar and won't do anything for you for free or cheap, ever.

In desperate times, desperate solutions but its docent mean that are the right solutions.

The need of the many out way the needs of the few or the one, sometimes the many, the few & the one only want to divide & conquer.

This is a very interesting take, and Jason it not just the furry fandom having these issues, gamergate anyone? Due to the hatred in the majority of the world thinking all their problems are someone else's is causing more harm than good, dems vs rup, conservatives vs liberals. it mostly due IMO to the younger generation Millennials (not all I am one) being told they can do anything and are special, and they get what they want when they get mad. Instead of trying to come together to find solutions, they rather complain about the problems, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzYOE5F7QPc check out that video, also a fair number of furries have helped others, as with everything there are bad seeds, it just easier with social platforms to spread distrust, as they say in business a negative review can ruin your business, will it change, I think so, as everything does. We just need to ignore the heaters and push forward. You have a great talent, don't give into the haters.

Well, good luck. But from what I seen in other communities, that never achieves anything. Don't hold that you back from trying though. Trying to make something better and be better people is all we can da after all.

You want server hosters, web developers, moderators, advertisers etc.

So you're gonna be what? The ideas guy?

As a professional developer, your ideas are worthless. Ideas are worth nothing, and this is not an original idea. You need to build something before you expect people to come and work for you for free.

Haha, because you know, you're currently pulling the "I'm popular, do all the work for me" card.

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/exposure

Is what I've been reading from the post and replies here.

Could someone explain to me what Jasonafex is standing for in simple terms, I am sorry I'm not being dense on purpose, but all I can gather is "furry fandom is toxic with many bad behaviors" ok but like what exactly? But "new site will be cool because toxic behaviors will be severely moderated and weeded out"

But what exactly?

Thank you beforehand.

(Hopefully I can explain this in a way that doesn't offend Jasonafex, or his detractors)

Jasonafex is outspoken in saying that politically correct (PC) culture is a negative in society (more specifically furry culture in this case), and it leads to people being silenced that should not be. He has cited previous examples of some furries not allowed to be guests of honor at conventions due to right leaning views that are seen as racist or offensive. When those who do not have the power to silence wish to silence an opposing view, they express hostility, which Jasonafex calls "toxicity" in this case. He argues that this toxicity is a major problem.

Furries in general are left leaning. Jasonafex's case is that this left bias leads them to silence or be hostile toward opposing opinions too liberally (pardon the pun, I love it too much to not say it).

His goal in this venture then, would be to create an alternate site which does not moderate unpopular opinions and allows everyone to speak freely, instead focusing on allowing users to filter what they would not like to see. He's stated his goal is 'No censorship, put the power in the hands of the creators and let the community decide what resonates with them most, offering only positive incentive to be civil and kind to others.'.

Hopefully this explains the concept!

That's basically it yeah, wombo-combo'd with a heavy incentive for civility and community involvement/growth. Participating will be akin to leveling up.

Yes it does, thank you for taking the time to explain, I appreciate it. In my case I am not american and a lot of the approach i have to things I don't like is "this is not for me, i am not the demographic of this thing, keep scrolling" that's it, so mostly my experience is ridiculously different from what seems to be the norm here and on tumblr, plus I am not heavily outspoken of my personal views. What I agree is that the community is fragmented into little warring tribes and the internet doesn't make any of it better, au contraire it just makes everything feel magnified and personal, and noisier immature and socially inept individuals banging a drum sound like an army when they are not but still manage to rile up the mob and you know how that ends.

I don't come here as often anymore but every time it feels a little less welcoming.

So I might have to check out this project once completed or as soon as beta is available.

Again thank you for explaining.

I definitely agree with this and all people should respect the furry community and also respect the artists and their artwork in it as well. They shouldn’t be ruining it at all and the furry community should and always will be a fun and enjoyable thing.

I hate how many different sites there are already. Easier to just stick to fa.

Will this new platform be banning bestiality as well? Both real and drawn?

Hello Jason.
The issue is that the youth will always live with the labels. Either using politics to take you off guard or live under the hood of victimhood to back up their claims.
If you are going to separate yourself from the social media where you also submit your work, it will only alienate yourself from the fandom. Ex: Patreon
People like to voice their opinion to feel close to the person responsible for the creation of content. Its what gives them the force to continue speaking about you or purchasing your services.
Unfortunately, that comes of a price of being exposed to negative kind of attention. And the furry fandom has only been getting worse and worse as many of my fellows who are very kind people, left the fandom by being constant targets of toxic bullies. Leaving the fandom with the majority hate riddling people.

Our goal as people of influence is to help spread the message that this is not the way, its not what the Furry fandom is really about.
I remember the days when being a furry was about as wondrous as being a child first embarking to Disney Land. No hate, no judgement, just pure will to explore the wonderful art and share stories of your characters.
We need to bring back those times.

I agree, however my hands are tied here on FA. I hold no power and really, I could get booted off at any minute should my views be painted as 'alt-right'. I can only work with the tools I am given. Solution? Build better tools.

I'm glad someone is at least doing something to improve the situation at least a little bit, wish I could aid in some way though I do lack the required experiences.

Just make a booru or mastodon instance or something if you don't have the skills or resources to make a site yourself.

I suppose my last comment was a bit too wordy or too nice and danced around the more specific topics aimed specifically at you, yourself, as well as Kaiber.

Now, firstly, I have been following you and Kaiber back as far as when she was still using Gen (the gray/tan? female). So a long, long while. I have supported you both because as content creators, you both have talent and skill in your respective fields, and I have enjoyed a fair bit of the commission work you both have done, and a couple pieces of work you two have collaborated on.

As my comment in the last journal stated, however, having a particular skill set shouldn't excuse you from being, individually speaking, some sort of activist to try to take it upon yourselves to change a whole community by breaking away from the core group as a great many have already before, while trying to coerce others, your fanbase included, to simply pack up and move with you in order to continue support you [and kaiber] through yet another website, and yet another system, and other artists that may/may not be tempted in following.

Secondly, how can you honestly sit there and claim that there is a toxic community (which again, I'm not saying you're wrong that it isn't, as my comment on the last journal did support you in saying), but when half of the stuff that seemingly comes out on social media or through experiences you have had with others which there has been more than one witness to, proves that you, yourself [and/or Kaiber as well] are just as bad, as individuals, as the 'community' you claim is toxic?
In saying that, I'm not taking just by saying "ahah get rek't fgt." I'm talking anything from your personal political stances, your beliefs in whatever, any prior comments and statements that clearly have stirred the shit pot of drama, the supposed and alleged racism that's likely been deleted? I can already see one in particular case in the last week which has been getting a metric SHIT TON of RT's on Twitter pertaining to Kaiber's "Everyone deserves human rights." You're not wrong, once again, but don't you think it is a bit silly to lay that claim out when the larger populace already -has- 'basic' human rights? While the LGBT community does not in a lot of aspects? I mean, I'm a straight, white, middle-aged, CIS male. Does that mean I should have more rights than, say, a trans individual? No. But their rights are being manipulated harder than an electoral vote in congress right now (I am in no way politically inclined on any spectrum, I'm just using that for the sake of the argument).
You see, when you throw material out like that, you are thus becoming a target, you are stirring the pot with not a ladle but a concrete truck mixer instead. You're pouring that same toxic, hateful, spiteful, and slanderous foundation out for your fans and followers to see, build upon, and you wonder why you and Kaiber both get so much flack and hate? You two can hate or love whatever it is you want, but exercise it with a clear head or among your close-knit peers. I'm -not- telling you to restrict your speech because I already sense the "FREE SPEECH" argument boiling, but at the same time, I'm willing to bet six months of you both just doing what you do and venting your views in a more peer-to-peer setting will show huge results in letting the shit pot simmer down.

Granted, my previous journal comment still stands: there will be toxicity no matter what community you go to, no matter what business or field of career you take, no matter where you live or grow up in, no matter the country or state or providence. It doesn't matter what planet or galaxy to move to, no matter what life or era you're born into. There will ALWAYS be toxicity because that's just how humans are. We love, we create, and we're all capable of imaginative wonder and productivity, but there is also the dark to every light. You cannot cast light positively without shadows being cast where hate is bred and seethes. I wish you could see that, really see that it's not just furries. Furries culture in general is just more open about the toxicity and therefore it gets spread around faster than a wildfire in a hurricane-force wind.

You want to create a system that lets people, once again, break away (by definition) from the 'norm,' again, and thus use this system to have a structure where people can be promoted or punished based on their 'performance,' so-to-speak. I can tell you right now that will be abused if it does not have a completely unbiased and unfiltered staff, who are not steered by their beliefs or views. However, you give a mouse a cookie, it will inevitably want a glass of milk, as the old saying goes. You give -anyone- a little bit of power, and it can, and it will be abused. It's no different than someone being empowered by the amount of love or hate they get.

I will say this again so you don't feel like I am completely ragging on you and Kabier as you already have plenty of that already: You both, as creators, are great. I enjoy some aspects of the content you two have produced. I will continue to watch and follow the work you two make. But if you're seriously considering this form of breakaway, then I implore you to invest and dedicate not months, but -years- of dedication, blood, sweat, tears, and expect further backlash over it. But take your time with it, and make sure that if you do put people into admin or moderator positions, they are absolutely and completely disassociated with yourself and Kaiber, and so far removed from the bias over varying arts and fetishes that when it does come time to make a decision, the ruling can be done by more than one person as a group effort instead of leaving it to individual choice.

I wish you both luck, it's all I can provide. I hope it pans out in the image you foresee it to be.

You really could make the same point in a sentence, you consider 'trying' in this community futile. Let me make a few points:

• Doesn't matter how long you have been following our creations, loyalty isn't priority.

• I am not a furry to be an activist for anything. I don't jack off for political reasons.

• You are making justifications for Identity Politics because you serve to benefit from it. Taking greater interest in conflict rather than resolution. Your point can be boiled down to 'Don't rock the boat' by promoting basic human decency like free speech and equality. If the furry community cannot handle those concepts, stick to Twitter where they remain unchallenged.

• Toxicity thrives in environments that promote anonymity, a lack of personal responsibility and mob mentality. I never stated that I'm making a safe-space, I'm making a platform where ALL ideas are treated equal. As such, the normal methods of censorship and doxxing will no longer protect you. Those ideas will be challenged and their arbiters will be confronted as to why they hold them. Identity Politics stems from bigotry and the hate of other groups, the cure is education, communication and learning to put yourself in the shoes of others.

• It's not a break-away from the norm, it's a return to norm. Freedom of expression, live and let live and common decency are traits platforms such as FA & Twitter long abandoned. It can only be abused if poorly designed. Someone intentionally being toxic will struggle to garner many privileges, notoriety or respect.

• Our digital footprint will very well be all over this new platform, that's the point. If you can't handle egalitarians at the helm, don't use it.

Going off the points you made, I'll respond.

- Of course loyalty isn't priority, I was only using that specific information as a footnote towards the later explanation. I have followed you both for such an extended period of time, I have seen both the arrival, the growth, the development, and then with it, the hostilities and creativeness you both have gained or created and gone through.

- Nor am I. The last time I paid any attention to politics was when Regan and the first Bush were in office. Likely well before most of the commenter's time.

- I gain no such benefit from any Identity Politics you speak of. The conflict is just merely evidence of conflict having taken place, and the lack of resolution to said conflict has yet to be found or made. But that is also the point, yes, 'Don't rock the boat.' I served my country in military service, so I have a much broader understanding of the whole "promoting and protecting" any rights that some among the country take for granted. I bled and sweat for others to spout hate speech towards their fellow man or woman. I'd gladly sit down and discuss the finer aspects of what that entails another time. I swore an oath to a system that seethes and bleeds into even the very aspect of what I called a community of creativity and imaginative exploration. But saying that all lives matter or everyone deserves rights majority, or minority excluded, is also as asinine as saying the earth is flat. There are groups so far off the spectrum that they have to fight as hard as women had to back 1960's for equality, or the blacks in 1940's. As a blood relative in Native American ties, I've had to also go through and see it myself, and still am. It's not as simple as saying "Everyone deserves rights." It's why you don't see a straight pride day or a white appreciation month or etc etc etc. Some groups just have to fight to GAIN the same rights you and I have. I don't know what part of that is so hard to see, or understand. Media in general is as skewed. Twitter notwithstanding, the only reason I mentioned that whatsoever was due to the fact that, while information there can be skewed as well, there's still plenty of good that can come from it.

-Toxicity thrives in any environment that is anonymous or lack thereof. You can't just pin it to one specific ideology, since it encompasses all aspects of life from infancy up to adulthood, throughout school, work, friendships, family, news, the world, locally or abroad. We're only talking about FA and the basis of what the 'furry community' is, not the others. It's not just the 'community,' but it's out in everyday interaction with others or the local / broad area you inhabit. You can do things to mitigate it, lessen it, but you will never completely destroy it. But opening Pandora's Box can be a dangerous game. If you sit, for example, yourself and I in the same room and have a one-on-one conversation of this-or-that, there will be disagreements, and agreements, on either side. I get that, I understand it better than most. And here yet again, I do agree. Education and communication is key. But there are complexities above and beyond simply saying "put yourself in my shoes." Unless you are empathetic individual, who can relate, those shoes can either be real tight, or loose as frayed wire. But I sincerely do agree with you that there needs to be better forms of communication.

- If it's not a break away, and a 'return to the norm,' I hope you understand it was nearly as harsh as it was some twenty years ago when I joined as it is today. Back then you could say it was much, much worse because of all the bestiality screamers and individuals claiming that pedophilia was were all that furries were about (aside from the drugs, sex, and alike). The only difference between then and now is that more people have stepped forward to force out members of the 'community' and pushed them off to Inkbunny where they can do that stuff there. That, and with the politics raining down like fire and brimstone in the current era, the furries of the 1990's verses the furries of today are highly unstable, and perhaps a little over-zealous.

- But that's the point. You have to have an unbiased individual judging (or in my opinion, multiple, like a group choice / effort for multiple points of unbiased view) to make a uniform decision on whether or not … say … someone causing drama on your site. If you have a group of these so-called egalitarians, then the unpunished will take root and spread the same amounts of toxicity as they would anywhere else. Because you're offering equality for all groups and all members of your base. By unbiased, I don't mean so empathetic that a black hole would look like rainbow road, I'm talking unbiased in saying "Okay, so, this person A is harassing person B, evidence is sound, let's get Admin XYZ and Moderator ABC in here to clarify that x-resolution is a good call."

In any case, whatever this site holds, this place you wish to create, perhaps it is what the group needs, and just needs to come out of inception and into creation. I'll keep an eye on its progress all the same.
For what it is worth, however, thanks for the response and you did make valid points, and things I'll have to do some of my own searching and exploring on. Wrote a bit down for referencing later on.

Most of your concerns again, stem from Identity Politics. I get that you personally feel persecuted in life for x y z reasons, however that doesn't make you an authority on how others should enjoy their own content feeds. Those kinds of social issues are best addressed to your local congressman, not on a furry porn website.

'Equality' is only a moot point for those that serve to benefit from perpetuating social divides. People out there WANT to be oppressed, it gives them social points and power. We aren't playing that game with this platform. 80% of the population are sick of Political Correctness and they are just as entitled to a neutral platform as you are to a biased one. We are going to offer everyone the exact same tools and social standard, it's up to them to be personally responsible for their own growth.

If you're going to build a website, you need to understand you're NOT competing with FA, but instead with Patreon. Patreon has become the place for artists as they are able to get more reliable income from their work. If you combine the concepts of FA as an art gallery and Patreon for the income, THAT'S the property next step in the evolution of websites.

Good luck!!

Have fun with your project.

Just uh, prepare yourself for disappointment.

I'm not expecting much from a new furry site just another place to waste your time into to post. your site will probably have such a low traffic that it won't be worth posting anything. but good luck i'll check it out if you're able to make anything out of it.

Not a competitor? What kind of communist shit is this?

I'm not appealing to the same demographic as FA. This is for those hungry for an overhaul on how they consume and distribute content, along with personal liberty and expression.

Think of Logan Paul's demographic 'competing' with Vsauce.

Problem is there are already so many platforms with already cause for new artists and even old to loose customers. There are already diluted pool of customers as they operate on on other platform.

FA was and I believe its no bad platform but its layout and design and functionality are outdated it woukd be great to redevelop it and rewamp.

Regarding bans and block contents well I think its important have serious thought where we heding with this. Furry fandom has use to been tolerant and accepting but it getting into extreme pervertness without boundaries to what is advisable to share in public and what is not, its hidden meaning do often operate on the edge of law.
Then I think sone degree of filtering and censorship is and woukd be required.

There is amound of people who are being control by its context and its not anymore seen as artistic expression but unhealthy obsession.

The definition of insanity is to try the same thing over and over expecting different results.

How many years are you willing to wait for FA to fix itself? Websites fail at the same rate that restaurants fail. Supply/Demand, you need to know what makes you different and capitalize on it hard. FA clones will always and forever die.

Yeah, the furry community is becoming FUBAR... It's time to rebuild, try our best, no shortcuts

So it's totally not FurAffinity-ish at all, because it's built from the ground up for AltFurs?

So you haven't answered 2 of the kind-of but no questions, I'll go with it directly.

How do you plan to pay developers? Developers are not cheap. My lowest cost developer for a social media management platform is $80k/year. That's for one person. You'll need several.

How do you plan to pay for services? Also not cheap because you seemingly want to avoid censorship. While I normally recommend a specific route for free bandwith, I'm honestly not really a fan of yours so I have no desire to help you out on that front (and additionally its "silicon valley" companies anyways.) I will however mention that your common recommended routes are insanely expensive.
AWS would cost $2900/month for 30tb which is really nothing for an image site.
GC would be $260/month for 30tb
Azure is $2300/month

That's only bandwith. Nothing of storage requirements and balancing or compute.

Sure you could go with a dedicated server provider but now you have SPF issues without automatic failover.
Colocation? Who's going to pay for the servers themselves, the rack space and still the bandwith?

--

So then we also have cost covering. How are you going to do it? Advertising? Donations?

Who is going to be the project lead assuming you even get developers? You? What do you bring to the table? Ideas are worth $0. Exposure is worth $0.

Everything just points to you wanting other people to do the hard work while you sit at the top.

I'm aware of the inherit costs of such a platform, doesn't mean an effort shouldn't be made. FA themselves have disclosed their monthly upkeep and were sold off to IMVU for not being profitable.

Bandwidth and labor is not cheap, that's a given. Hence why extensive discussion will be had before business ventures are made. Just because you yourself would not support such a platform, does not mean there isn't a market for it. If the platform fails to maintain it's upkeep, then it wasn't meant to be. Gab ran a Kickstarter to get itself off the ground, asking for $10,000 and generated over a million. The furry community clearly is not on the same scale, however we wouldn't be getting this much of a response if no-one cares for these kinds of values.

The rest of your post is pure speculation. If you don't have confidence, don't support it.

You still didn't answer one of the more important parts.

> Who is going to be the project lead assuming you even get developers? You? What do you bring to the table?

You do realize I was an Assistant Manager and Graphics Designer for my local newspaper before I entered the community? Me and Kabier plan on designing the entire thing from scratch. Reach also does matter, I'm networked with the majority of the community, and they will not be able to resist talking incessantly about said platform.

Exposure is actually worth several thousands. You can actually measure the net worth of your Twitter account with simple tools available online. I save a lot on advertising by already being an established figurehead.

> You do realize I was an Assistant Manager and Graphics Designer for my local newspaper before I entered the community?

No, it's not on your profile and I don't care enough about you to look for an autobiography.
I'll let you know now: Either pay the developers market rate or you won't be in control. With assistant manager at a local newspaper being your highest leadership role you don't bring anything to the table that is worth spending time on. The only thing that would keep you as the leader is money.


> Reach also does matter, I'm networked with the majority of the community, and they will not be able to resist talking incessantly about said platform.

I would find it hard to believe you wouldn't know, but I'd wager most find you and Kabier to be a toxic asset. With either of you anywhere near the top you'll have someone else posting exactly what you did here: https://www.furaffinity.net/journal...../#cid:55366055
Except "Its ran by JAF and Kabier".

> Exposure is actually worth several thousands. You can actually measure the net worth of your Twitter account with simple tools available online.

I am aware,
https://webfluential.com/influence-estimator
Puts you at $60-$75 per tweet. So about 30 minutes worth of developer time.

--

In any case, good luck with your kickstarter because it's not going to happen without money.

• If you don't care to do your research and instead just want to throw around accusations, you aren't offering more than antagonism.

• Again, you consider yourself the leading demographic on FA. One neutral comment that you yourself replied to with hostility, isn't an indication that this kind of service is without demand.

• Twitter is my smallest platform, so your efforts come off as a strawman. You can easily see my FA is approaching 4 million page views with x4 the subs. I already have received a plethora of notes voicing interest in the project both from an internal development position and external advertising. Kind of making your point moot.

If you don't like it, don't use it. You're FA experience isn't threatened.

> If you don't care to do your research
Research on what? You?

> instead just want to throw around accusations
The only thing I've accused you of is being a toxic asset.

> you aren't offering more than antagonism.
I've offered you things to think about when picking your minions and how expensive it is. Like mentioned (even though you probably don't care and/or don't trust me) I run a social media management company on the technical side. I do know what I'm talking about when it comes to websites/apps, scaling and hiring for coding and management.

> Twitter is my smallest platform, so your efforts come off as a strawman.
Really? This is literally what you said: You can actually measure the net worth of your Twitter account with simple tools available online
You brought up twitter, not me. I responded with a "simple tool available online" with your twitter account plugged in.

If you think it's a strawman then don't bring it up as a defense.

> You can easily see my FA is approaching 4 million page views with x4 the subs
I thought you said the platform wouldn't be furry focused or target the FA userbase? Is it now going to?

> I already have received a plethora of notes voicing interest in the project both from an internal development position and external advertising
Congrats I guess? I'll check back with you in say 3 months to see if they're still around. Also you (should) be vetting them to ensure everyone is on the same page in regards to technology and separation of roles.

> If you don't like it, don't use it. You're FA experience isn't threatened.
I won't and I don't really care for FA due to several issues.

If your solution is to make a Gab equivalent of FA count me out. That place is a cesspool of its own making. If you seriously think a more toxic social media was a solution to toxic social media you're out of your mind.

I was an IBM Hardware guy back in 97-2k... I've pretty much been out of computers as anything other than a user since then. I could probably still put together a decent desktop, as if anyone still used those...

Alas, while I'm very much about writing software and programming, I am not a web developer. I tend to do more low-level stuff, so don't think I'd really be able to contribute to the dev work on this.

Well, to quote Megadeth: "If there's a new way,/ Well I'll be the first in line,/ But it better work this time."

I do hope for the best and that the community does get better. In large part, the best solution for this sort of thing is to make it harder and less rewarding to be malicious in the community; as stated in earlier replies, the reason it happens is because the one doing it doesn't care about the consequences that can happen in return for doing something relatively easy and relatively cathartic for whatever would've made them want to be an ass-hat in the first place. I could spit-ball a few ideas, but I'm probably going to breakdown flaws in them rather than talking up positives in them since flaws are going to be the most important parts to notice.
1. No Comments, Just Like Or Dislike - This would be way to vague a way to grade whether someone is doing something right or wrong in the community, especially since it also makes communication difficult. Also, mass down-voting would probably only be worse with only Yes or No options.
2. No Number Votes About Quality, Just Comments - This would end up being huge walls of text trailing down from a submission where people would end up arguing to the heat-death of the universe about any petty issue, like if Tits or Ass is better. Also, it's a bit surprising how there really are a lot of folks who would rant and demean in long-winded tirades that strike deeply and personally to others with very little regard to the thoughts and feelings of others. It'd be horrific with the worst-case scenario being some poor soul getting an overwhelming mountain of (grammar-quality varying) litanies that verbally dog-pile on someone who just wanted to show off something they like. Conversely, imagine some repugnant soul raising a band of worshipers who would be their attack hounds and yes-men to anything they do.
3. Three-Option-Voting - By this, I mean giving submissions a rating of either Like, Dislike, or Indifference. This probably falls under the same issues as the two-option voting as mentioned in entry 1, but at least counting up those who vote Indifferent when the otherwise would have to pick one of two options would bring about slightly more honest. Again, it's still rather vague about what is meant by Indifference towards something, especially if folks decide to not even make a choice.

I'm sure that there's probably a functional solution out there (even if it can't be a perfect solution), but thinking these things through are probably for the best rather than immediately jumping up and making a site without the help of proper staff and plans and all that. Since that does appear to be what you're doing, I can commend on the initiative for going through this wisely.

I work at Godaddy if you need consulting about domains or hosting and marketing hit me up for an appointment.