It's really sad to see that a lot of communities are actually turning into this sort of thing. If you don't band with the majority you're instantly the bad guy, the scapegoat, or someone just terrible. Society as a whole is really being plagued by such hyper-sensitives and its... really disheartening. Friends aren't friends anymore, they are spies trying to snag secrets to make you look bad, they are backstabbers and greedy jerks for the most part these days. You're lucky if you can find ONE decent person in a pack now..
Before I go off on my own tangents, I'mma stop there...

And say that just frankly... All of this... just makes me really sad.

Hopefully you'll find a good community and place to be, and I hope that everyone of like mind is able to find solace as well.

"Nothing you say, even in private, is safe from being put on blast from hyper sensitive children over on Tumblr Lite." lmao I've had somin like that happen, indeed.

I agree with you on a lot of this to be honest, which I guess is surprising considering all the horror stories I hear about yourself and such. Nice to see we have common ground in that regard. I'm of the opinion Antifa as it stands currently is more fascist than not, not to mention kind of a national terrorist group tbh.

I fully support you in drawing humans and more monstery fantasy stuff tbh. Sure I'll be a fan of your work regardless! Head in the way of DnD for inspiration I say ;)

VENTING IS GOOD

Man, DnD is the best. It honestly changed and maybe even saved my life!

I totally agree with you. The state of the community nowadays is mind boggling. I joined the community first and foremost because i liked the art and thus i considered myself a furry, but meeting other furries in real life has been a very horrible experience for me aswell as the only convention that i have gone to which was EuroFurence. Some people have no restrain and go way too far over the line. Conversations with other furries just turn out really weird and creepy pretty often. I still like the amazing artwork tho but the people in the fandom i try to stay far away from.

Very well said. Thank you for writing this.

... wow, glad these details were brought to my attention. but, i think any fandom can have this level of toxicity that you mentioned above.

anywho, stay safe, and hope for bright skies in the future.

But SHOULD any fandom have this level of toxicity? Can a fandom stay afloat with this level of toxicity boiling inside it?

you are right, they shouldn't. but it's something we can't help.

As long as people and free will exist, these things will happen, and that's what i'm trying to say.

Are you sure that isnt just justifying its existence? Does pokemon have a fanbase like that?

i have no clue... look, I don't want this to turn into a heated argument, so i'm sorry if what i said offended you in anyway, shape or form.

no, i'm not saying this is okay, or that i'm supporting anything, i just want to give my opinion on the matter as of, WHY this is happening.

anyways, nice chatting with you.

Was not getting mad, just asking questions.

Yes actually, pokemon does have a fanbase like that. You may not see it on the surface but there is actually a group of super toxic people in there. You may not see it on twitter or on FA but you can see it on tumblr and in discord groups. You just gotta dig for it.

Tumblr is filled with toxic people in general.

The difference is that the toxicity in pokemon is kept to a minimum by not reducing who is allowed into the community. where as this one has started removing anyone who isn't the toxic ones, thus letting the toxicity boil to the surface and become the outer layer rather than the dark unpleasant toxic core people have to seek out to find.

i have notes this in genral with a surten plitale movement pricinge eqality and talranse exapt if you disagery with what they belive then that make you the enamy and that dehumanis you by puting a lable on you insted of trying to understand were other people belive. im sad to see it even kriping in to this comunity and ruing it to very sad indeed.

Google Translate couldn't help me understand this post :<

i am very dyslexic

I have noted this in general with a certain political movement present equality and tolerance except, if you disagree with what they believe in, it suddenly make you the enemy and the de-humanize you by putting a label on yourself instead of trying to understand what other people believe in. I'm sad to see this creeping in this community and ruining it as well. Very sad indeed.

Might have misinterpreted some words.

Let me translate for you,

~Samgwis420
"I have noticed this in general, within a certain political movement. People preaching equality and tolerance, except if you disagree with what they believe then that makes you the enemy. And that, in turn, dehumanizes you by putting a label on you instead of trying to understand what other people believe. I'm sad to see it creeping into this community and ruining it. It is very sad indeed."


Hopefully I got the message you were trying to say across for you Samg.

thank you yes that is what i was going for. i have to use words i know most of the time which changes what im trying to say and i was going for a very sure massage and it turned out bad to read

Really hurts that I can understand everything you said in this journal perfectly and feel it mirrored by myself and quite a few others.

Will you be leaving furaffinity?

Wont be leaving, but you'll notice a chance in the type of content I post and how frequently. Will still be making comics though!

Cool! Still I agree with you, this fandom isn't fun with all the drama, I still love everything about it, but it's getting to the point, where I'm starting to see more and more negative things in the fandom

You're not wrong and honestly, I've felt a general disconnect from the fandom for many years and for a multitude of reasons.

More and more people will eventually leave the fandom. The amount of hate and bigotry I've seen in the last couple of months paired with the manhunts going on for people that others deem were wrong (often without proof). I have attended a lot of conventions so far but have never ever seen or heard of nazifurs being present at a con, all of a sudden the cons need to hand out badges and make a political statement ? What for ? They actually caused a LOT of drama at eurofurence this year... but alas, the chairman "knew better". On the other hand it's fine for AntiFa members to publicly post/hang pictures of them smashing furzis/alt-furs head in with baseball-bats and the likes. Ban one but support the other ? Pff.

Very well said.

The worst part of all is knowing that this situation was avoidable. The warnings signs were present, they were pointed out, and because they were ignored we now are where we are.

I wish the best of luck to you and hope to see more of your talent in the future.

That’s good that even with these atks you still want to do your art and I do enjoy your work can’t wait to see what you’ll come up next Also best of luck with you for your future.

Put together really well. You embody a lot of the frustrations people have with very far left individuals and for myself, a fairly fresh faced individual entering the fandom (Chip is officially two years old?), I find the Twitter pressence to be one of the major reasons I have next to no desire to A. buy a suit or B. Attend any conventions ... anymore at least.

It really sucks because for the longest time I really wanted to get engaged, but every time I go onto Twitter hunting for art bargains, I'm bombarded with an assortment of pack mentality 'follow the leader' band wagoning on whatever person dared to actually say "Well actually, you might not be right."

I feel you. I feel your feeling deeply.

There is dislike and then there is out and out Hate.

Any type of hate is bad.

My grandmother always told me that Hate is a bad word and should be reserved for things that deserve it.
I never hated anything, I disliked how people are treated, dislike politics and dislike Cauliflower, but hating it... is just... ignorant.

People hate, because they don't understand.
A lot of people reversing the hate on others are just as guilty of the hate that was brought upon to begin with.

Just do what you feel makes you happy. If it is disconnecting from the fandom then do it. I just love to see your art when you post it. I may not say much but I enjoy it.

Thank you for posting what you post. I appreciate your hard work.

Take care!

I'm unsure if it's a new phenomena or we simply grew older. The stereotype of 'social outcast' just doesn't fit anymore. As people grow wiser, political bias becomes more transparent. I'm really not interested in identity politics, anyone who tries to force it upon me is going to have a reality check.

I'm not here for agendas, profit or otherwise. I'm here for fun, to think critically and to make friends. I'll continue to do so in a completely unapologetic fashion. Those with a problem can learn some tolerance or continue to be even more outcast than they were before.

Its definatly not because we got older. Things weren't like this years ago. I've been around this fandom for over a decade. As time grew on I've drifted away from it as well. Furcons are only fun for people that like to get drunk/drugged/horny for those near their young adulthood. Of course that's not 100% but cant deny it's a very high percent. I've chosen not to go to furcons in favor of other things to do with my fiance instead since I feel like furcons are a waste of money at this point since I'm not into those things.

But the politics that have not leaked into the fandom but damn near absorbed it has made a lot of social media unbearable. I try to stay out of it for the most part but every now and then I end up chiming in for one reason or another. And because I disagree with the "progressive" side, I ended up being labeled "privileged" and a nazi apologist lol

Shots crazy these days xD I just observe now mostly but want to reiterate the point that it's not that we are getting older/out of touch. The fandom has 100% chosen to side with politics/mob mentality vs just letting people be.

I agree, well said.

I think its less we changed and more the landscape around us, we basically have two tribes getting slowly more and more extreme and insane and using the extreme of the other to justify ramping up themselves and vice versa

It's good to hear you venting about this stuff. We all need to do it from time-to-time. I remember taking a long time to finally finally be comfortable with myself being a furry, then just as quick as it came I felt unwelcome by this same kind of hatred and intolerance for someone who doesn't think like them. I left for a good while simply because I didn't want to surround myself with that kind of negativity. Being called a Nazi never hurt me emotionally because I am half German and would always joke about it. But I did come back and used that against those that would accuse me of such ridiculous things and I never did it because I follow that ideology, quite the opposite actually, but because I didn't want to let them win.

While I personally wouldn't let them win with such absurdness, I totally get wanting to get away from it for a bit and I don't think anyone here would judge you for it. Although you tell us to remember we're not alone in feeling like this, I think it's important to remind you and Jason that you guys aren't alone in it either.

I mean it's one of those things that can go both ways. If you only subscribe to rhetoric instead of forming your own opinion, that is pretty much always bad. :p
There's alarming lack of "real" discussion on both ends of any spectrum as people get obsessed with "owning the libs" or screeching about how someone is a Nazi because they want to have a critical discussion on race/gender.
Woke-itude is just as bad as being deep alt right when you don't think more than none at all about how the answer is kinda in the middle.

Hard to say where the future is headed.

We're more connected than ever, yet still primal, hormonal beasts behind the screens who all believe they're right. The rules changed when mobs could assemble from their desks, on their phones and tablets, from every corner of the world to harass someone out of self-righteous rage at any hour of the day. Not to get too pathological here, but I'd take my wagers that no small amount of those people are out of their minds cookie-dooks.

Gatekeeping a community like furry makes no sense. We're spitting distance from being branded as zoophiles, and in the eyes of a lot of people we're no different.

Gatekeeping in general makes me upset. I don't try to connect to many communities but it always happens, and I end up outside of the community I wanted to participate in one way or another.

Anyway thanks for your thoughts, and that insight about the harassment at cons here and on the Cuckshack. It's a bit mind-boggling to think that furries are so destructive. Easier to piss on someone else's parade than to just feel better about yourself, yeah?

And trying to stay neutral....never works. Because one of either side will pull you into the drama, and then they'll lock the door behind you. You are never able to escape.

Your art skills have been improving overtime, and that makes me eager for more from you. Double Trouble comic is just one of many things you're doing great at. I await more from you

Yeah been sad at how hate filled people have been recently

Sadly, I find this sort of obnoxious behavior to be people in general. Hell, spend 10 minutes watching the news and it covers most of the hatred and ignorance you've gone into detail here. It does feel quite a bit focused
around this community in general, at times, but I just can't bring myself to solely blame 'furries'. Plus, there's always the little matter of the 'vocal minority, silent majority' which I feel could greatly be the case here, as
often as we hear about people leaving/quitting the fandom because of everything you've said here.

All in all, just feels like people suck... and those who don't have already made themselves scarce. :/

I'm gonna put my two bits in here on what you said, only because it's relevant and I've gone toe to toe with some of the admins over this, not that they'd ever admit it.

Anti-fa is a domestic terrorist organization. It's been classified that by the DHS, NJ. Still we have folks plastering it all over their pages. Jee, I sure hope the NSA and DHS are watching these folks.

As for the cons and "punch a nazi"? Try it. I can't wait to lay out some of these disgusting sjwfurs.

You're right on all accounts.

"I can't wait to lay out some of these disgusting sjwfurs." -says guy who doesn't see the irony in his statement. Any excuse to punch a leftist, right?

Absolutely. You come at us with shit like bike locks and broken bottles.

Seeing as the leftists have been punching without even so much as an excuse there might not be as much irony as you try to claim.

I've been lucky and not experienced most of what you speak of, but I have noticed it and not just in our community.

This is the world that social justice and social media are creating, and I am terrified of it. Hate is being made okay as long as you're hating the right things, and if you stand up to someone who's just a bully in the guise of a "social justice warrior" and call them out, you in turn get called out for being "anti justice" or some bullshit.

I'm all for justice, I'm also all for common sense and decency, and respecting your fellow man. What frightens me the most is the growing mentality of "guilty even if proven innocent" because they get dragged through the muck of social media and social justicing and there's basically no returning from that because the majority of people don't look into things themselves or bother their fragile minds with facts and truth, they just believe what someone else tells them is the truth.

This world makes me sad, and this community disappoints me. Stop justifying your hate with bullshit. Yeah, everyone agrees Nazis are bad, I don't need to wear your hateful ribbons to prove it. I threw away at least seven of those ribbons already. Am I a Nazi? No. Would I punch a proven Nazi in the face? Yup. I don't need your ribbons and I don't need your hate, especially when you're harming innocents with it.

I don't think this is an inherent problem with the furry community. The world is going through this crisis / phase right now and it has seeped into this community because of the amount of LGBT people and because of the social acceptance message it preaches. Other art communities are unaffected as they were never making social statements. Furries have always made active pro-LGBT statements and have had similar attitude.

As for you, Kabs I hope for the best. But I don't think you ought to stop calling yourself a furry because of certain horrible things that some people uphold. Most of the community is as you remember it, Most people are good-heated and seek only to indulge in artwork and community, not politics. It might seem like the community is being taken over, but the true community will always be those of us that uphold values of acceptance and tolerance, regardless of what other people may call themselves.

I recommend watching the following video, though you've probably already seen it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSqzLE9H6Y0

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. I've never considered myself a part of the community and what I've seen has only cemented it. I'm grateful that thus far my favorite artists have at least not actively promoted certain mindsets, but there are a couple who I've stopped watching over things in this ballpark. Stay the course of your conscience, and I look forward to see how your art evolves.~

Well I'm glad you're not leaving completely, per-say, and it's never a bad thing to seek out new interests or communities, especially if you're enjoying yourself in them.

I still watch you because I still like your artwork, so as long as you're drawing stuff you enjoy, I (and hopefully the other fans) should still enjoy the work you post and do! And would still be interested in commissioning you again.

And-or getting back in touch, it was before June that we stopped talking so much, when we were originally starting to talk semi-frequently! Hopefully the community hasn't put a negative on that.

Honest advice from somebody who has lived this well before FA, you adapt, use the experiences to be stronger, and either ignore the bad while focusing on the good, or harden up to the point where the haters fear you. One way or another, pulling back only gives the haters more space to roam.

Best way to handle twitter: just ignore every furry that lists pronouns in their bio. I haven't yet found one of those that is not a disgusting "either you agree with me or you're a nazi" poc

honestly, I think for some reason, being a furry kinda became popular with certain circles, just like being transtrender. I've seen more and more of those that I can only call extremists with furry avatars.

An even easier way to ignore those types on twitter is to just avoid it like the plague! XD

But yeah you are so right about that, it's why I have always refused to ever use twitter, as the way it has gone I feel it is just a festering cesspool that even makes swamps go "damn that's nasty"

- "that even makes swamps go "damn that's nasty"

That my friend, is fucking genius haha!

pos, not poc.. which is unfortunate. I hope people realize that was atypo

A loud and belligerent (dare I say bellicose) minority screeching and threatening to tear down individuals simply because they had the audacity to have a differing opinion. This is the age of “feels over reals,” where SJWs/intersectional feminists/“wokeness” is connected to the same old evils (and old money) that they vehemently say they are fighting against. A crowd of blind sheep makes for a useful tool.

I agree with you.
Sad to see that the IRL political madness creeps in to the furry fandom.
Only shows how fuck shit is getting, no common ground, only two extremes.

... I've heard stuff like this before... I guess I don't hang out with furries like this because I don't feel hate from furries at all. Guess I'm weird....?

The best thing you could really ever do is block them, both on the website and mentally. Just walk past and don't even bother. Its what I do when any type a malicious person who tries to berate or insult me in any way shape or form. I don't associate myself with those who insult or prey on others. Its messed up. So I ignore them and continue with my day. Just be you, and don't let the insults get to you. There will always be some bad where there is good. Be strong, be vigilante and move on with your day.

Oh I've tried blocking them. I have an absurd amount of accounts blocked, but they don't stop. There's always a new triggered snowflakes to get angry.

To be fair though it's not just in the furry community, just seems society in general is going down that path.

Now personally I haven't seen much of this on FA, though I do tend to keep my head down and keep political and religious things to myself and I'm also not on any "social" media so that might be a reason why.

I'm sorry you had to witness such things fisrt hand though, but whatever you decide to do I wish you well in life.

I totally agree with you on that and have seen some of the hated poured down yours and Jason's throats out of nowhere. Any little thing you guys do gets blasted on some servers that it's become sickening to even pay attention to them. There's definitely a big thing right now to shit on anything or anyone popular, and you two being humongous pillars in the community that have been around for so long get targeted because of it.

Being new to this community (barely here for 2 years while enjoying the art for longer, and also staying focused on the activity that I enjoy the most: Wrasslin) it has just recently dawned on me more. Especially when some people can't distance themselves from their character or notice that not every character represents what the person is comfortable with.

Anyhow, hope things go well for ya, Kabier.

Hive-mind hate speech is rampant all over the internet right now, and it's been a thing in politics since the beginning of politics.

People are sheep. They follow each other around, even off a cliff to their demise. As sad as it is, yes, the furry fandom is as susceptible to it as everyone else. We're certainly not a safe haven from it.

Nothing really can be done about it except to try to stick around only those friends that you can trust won't follow the herd, and won't try to drag you down with them. Otherwise you're just welcoming the drama into your life needlessly.

I mean, I try to keep my friend circle very anti drama. Sadly though, there are people who will manipulate you and pretend to be your friend just to get dirt on you. This has happened countless times, and it's extremely hard to tell the difference between someone who is sincerely trying to be your friend, and one that is doing it to be a snake.

*nods* I know the feeling. I've got some friends who I still care about and whatnot but are only casual once in a blue moon friends because they always either ask me for money or guilt trip me with the "oh woe is me I'm broke" stunt. Not everyone genuinely cares about you without any ulterior motive.

I mean, even I myself, who am one of those rare gems that genuinely cares about people even when it doesn't have any benefit to me, can sometimes lose my cool or not be myself. Course even then I'd never be in it to get anything from my friends, but I might sometimes share the drama if it's gotten to me. You guys have seen that yourselves, the one time I was judging people for their different interests. That wasn't the real me at all, but I was having an off day and lashing out at people very easily (due to a huge fight where my husband and I weren't talking to each other for the better part of a day). It's rare but it can happen.

I think a fair bit of the problem stems for the original acceptance of anyone.* When you have a group that tries to make people feel welcome, people who are sensitive or shy flock to it. These are also the kinds of people who tend to fall into the SJW group. Furries used to be about expression and not caring what other people said. Being yourself in a group that accepted you. But now. If you are so much as neutral. Because you rather not get involved, and let others sort it out among themselves, all of a sudden, you are the Nazi. That is one hell of a leap. Used to be if you disagreed with someone you still treated each other with respect. Honestly the only real thing left to do at this point is to wait out the storm. The mad with rant and shout and wont listen anyway, so why get involved? I'm sure as hell not gonna speak up about it. These so called warriors of justice are more dangerous than the imaginary threat they claim to defend people from. And it makes even going near where they gather a dangerous proposition.

* Not trying to sound elites or anything. Just noticing a trend among groups and sites that have that air of welcoming acceptance.

Do you furs recall the whole Burned Furs / Frozen Furs debate that happened some time ago? Furries were raging on and on and on about X-rated art in the fandom. People were "leaving" the fandom in protest and having hissy fits.

Well, this whole Nazi fur, altfur thing is just another example of that. We survived the Burned/Frozen thing, and we will survive this as well.

My opinion on this: if you are being bugged by the furries who are being drama queens about politics, then block them, ignore them, move on. There are plenty of cool furries who don't give a rat's ass about this. When you're doing furry stuff, you should leave politics behind. Being in the fandom is supposed to be a way to ESCAPE this stupid shit.

I refuse to allow the people with sticks up their asses to ruin my good time. Saying "I'm leaving the fandom because people upset me" is letting the trolls and morons win. I just won't give them that power.

This is all happening because of the nasty political climate in this country at the current time. People need to leave their politics at the door when they walk into a con or a furry RPG and escape into fantasy.

It is a challenging time for the furry community, but I think we'll get through it just as we have done before. I hope you all come along for the ride.

I don't know if I was around when that whole ordeal happened, but hearing this gives me slight hope that things will change. Until then, I'll consider myself a fringe fur and pursue other avenues that make me happy instead of stressed.

by distancing yourself, you make the others voices louder due to removal of your own,

I also need to do what's best for my mental health though. I've said what I've need to say, and will continue to keep an eye on and post my opinions on the state of the community.
I'm still going to be drawing comics, and posting here. I just don't consider myself a furry anymore.

I will say this: once you're able to turn an eye away from the community as a whole and turn your sona(s) into characters that don't entirely represent you, things get so much easier. You no longer wear a mask; you just be yourself. You be the person that got into the game, to begin with: an artist, with a passion, and ideas. Whatever it is that you and Jason decide to do, I will support you, because I can tell you're both genuinely good people. That may not mean much to you because you have no idea who I am, but that's fine. After all, that is what all of us seek when joining and partaking in communities: kindness and a sense of camaraderie from complete strangers.

i also remember the burned furs and their attempts to drive x y and z from the fandom .. it failed, the only thing it truly did was drive the more sensitive folks out, and leave us here.

understood on doing what is needed for mental health.

It's a tiresome and utterly pointless endeavour that these people are engaging in. I almost envy them, as they probably live lives free of any real conflict or problems of their own. I mean, how else could they spend so much time being so angry at each other and say horrible things for such asinine reasons?

Maybe it's a lack of upbringing, or a general disconnect with normal social interaction that drives these people to be who they are. Or maybe I'm just getting old x3 Whatever the reasons behind it, it certainly is damaging the community quite a lot, and it's making me very sad to see the state of it.

But man, regardless of it all I am still meeting such awesome new people every now and then. People with whom I'm sharing so much in common and who help me grow as a person for the better. I definitely don't regret being part of this community, at least not yet.

Totally Understandable, these are super valid points for hitting that technically "leaving" the fandom (as in now you just draw furry stuff occasionally) the community has alot of bad eggs, that does not leave any spotlight shined on good eggs.

I look Forward to all the new stuff you want to draw, and just have fun, maybe when the community changes for the better, you can be happy to call yourself a furry again, but until then...
ill never stop wishing ya good luck to both you and Jason

You've just written down what has been going through my mind for the past year. Every corner you turn accounts are leaving spamming funny little memes, or re-posting furry art, and are moving on to post things that say "If you support Donald Trump un-follow me" Like, we are a community of what most people consider outcasts already, to the common citizen we're "Just a bunch of dudes who fuck each other in big animal costumes." Yet here we are even further pushing people away on a daily basis.

Twitter IMO is the main culprit of this. While we use to be a community based around Anthropomorphic animals it's turning into a hate speech agenda or porn. Don't get me wrong, I don't care if the only reason someone joined the fandom in the first place was for the porn, but even that side of things is blowing out of proportion. People have AD accounts and just the other day I saw a underage individual get put on blast for requesting to follow someones AD. While I understand why you'd say "Hey, look out for this guy he's underage" it's a kid, you don't need to blow this shit up. Just do a simple post and have it done with.

TL:DR
I'm tired of all the bullshit going on and have been considering leaving the fandom because of it.

I agree with you fully!!

A few years ago I joined the community of Furries, and I defended them when others said they were troublesome. But now this community is going downhill. Not only is it affected on here, twitter, tumblr and other places, but it's even affected Tik Tok (Musically) and made it so toxic. It's a shame that someone creates something so beautiful and bastard people have to come in and rip it down with ignorance. I bet half of these people that claim their Nazi's or accusing others of being Nazis don't even know what the term Nazi is used for.

I have strayed away from the furry community myself, and have found myself not even wanting to do art, it's a struggle for me to do art..Because since my art isn't the best quality I feel as if I'll get shot down for messing things up, most of the time I do..I hate this feeling, and it makes me not even want to be on FurAffinity anymore.

Gulp! Not the first time I've heard about this sorta thing either... I'm planning to go all the way from Australia to MFF and FC, which is a long way... Hopefully I don't get accosted by ribbons too... Yeesh. Where did people's chill go?

This so damned much.

It's not just the furry community.

This kind of BS permeates ALL of society, Furry included. The campuses are a cesspool of this Far-Left crap, as are all the media like Twitter, Facebook, etc. And the people who OWN these companies are like this too, that's how and why this crap goes unchecked in such places, because those in charge aren't interested in doing what they preach in their terms of service.

Twitter and Facebook are all about pushing Far-Leftist agenda, let no one make any mistake about that.

It's sad that a chunk of the Furry Community had to end up in bed with them.

I don't care if someone likes or hates the Right side, or Trump or whatever, one thing is clear, is that the Far-Left is a far worse poison.

Oh I agree wholeheartedly that it's everywhere and not just the community. I do however, believe that the furry community attracts an astounding number of these people as we're known as the 'all excepting community'.

except if you're white and cishet.

Sorry about editing while you were responding! And yes, the Furry Community is... especially vulnerable to it, I agree there. And yes, these days, it's bad to be white and cis, sadly enough.

>I do however, believe that the furry community attracts an astounding number of these people as we're known as the 'all excepting community'.

I think you're mistaken there. I mean, SJW takeovers happened several times. I've seen them targeting my hobbies one by one.. One of the targets you'd think was least likely for them to get a foothold was the sceptic community, because, well, you'd think they'd be sceptic of their BS. Yet the first example I know of of an attempted takeover was Atheism+, now 6 years ago. Then was games and gamergate. Comics. Movies. Furry might be a side target, but I believe they do this just because they can. There may have been a tiny number of SJW furries, and they rallied their friends. I honestly don't think furries being accepting played a role.
Also, to usurp the powers that be was always the modus operandi of these types. They always target the leaders, try to convert them or replace them. You could see that beautifully on reddit, for example,m when the same few radical mods took over more and more subreddits. What bigger leader would there be in the furry fandom than a convention commitee? There may be less of them around than you'd suspect, but just in higher places. But that's just a theory

I personally feel that a lot of this SJW/antifa/alt-left crap is coming from a very small minority. They are just the loudest. Ditto for the actual alt-right/Neo-Nazi/fundamentalist crowd. These sides are the vast minority and they damn well know it. They depend on tricking the bulk of people into thinking they are the majority. They aren't. I know hundreds of furries. Maybe 2 or 3 are of either extreme and they are outcasts in the groups they in.

Sadly kabier and Jasonafex and folk like them get a lot more vitriol because they are "popufur" or least well known in the community.

I'll always be a furry and I'll be double fucked if I leave because some self entitled pampered middle class douchebag with a hero complex and no actual problems wants to get their knickers in a twist. And that goes for either side. I've told antifa people to fuck off and I've told white supremacists the exact same thing. Both sides tend to hate me and as far as I'm concerned, means I'm doing the right thing.

In time these toxic shits from both the alt-right and the alt-left will fade away as more people turn against them. It's sadly just a waiting game until they go.

This sounds like what a lot of different communities that end up as echo chambers (everyone just agrees with one another, if you don't you're silenced or banned) and full of double thinking (believing two mutually exclusive things to be true). Many of the political discussion areas for American politics end up this way. It's also a common problem with feminist and incel communities. Part of the problem is that it's super easy to find groups you agree with on the internet without needing to interact with those that you don't agree with. Another part is our natural tendency towards tribalism, the desire to see our side win or to just be the winner in general. Finally you have the anonymity of the internet making it a lot easier to be jerks in general.

It all drives people towards greater and greater extremes that hate one another, even though they basically don't interact with the other at all. In a sense, it's that lack of interaction which is causing the problem. You don't have to empathize with someone you never talk to, just hear about how horrible they are and how much they deserve your hatred. Lots of people like feeling justified in hating others, there's a reason that racism, religious intolerance, and sexism have been so prevalent in our society for so long.

Hopefully the caustic behavior in the community will wither away

From your personal experience, and feelings of not being able to relate to the furry community, I'm right there with you. .and it's sad because I came too view the fandom as a second home.. not an escape from my own, but a second place where I could be me.. and it feels like the culture as a whole has been shifting.. especially heavily this year. It's nice to see I'm not the only one who feels that way or who thinks the times are a'changing. but it's sad at the same time. Maybe the fandom will pull itself back together? I'm still holding out hope for a little while...but not too much longer.

This seemed to coincide with another furry witch hunt underway. Great fandom.

Feels like everyday there is a new witch hunt :/

Agreed. We will always however consider ourselves a furry, a true furry, even if we ever remain on the fringes of the group, shaking our head at the idiotic vocals at the center.

For the love of god... *Face palm*

I can't believe there are those who go down this road. I say the ones who have no ability to think ignore.

I’ve been part of the furry community since the late 90s/early 2000s. I remember places like YERF, where it was just about the general love of anthropomorphic critters, the various art styles & comics. The furry community was a place I escaped to to get away from real life worries; for me, it was one of the few places I could turn to that wasn’t judgemental and/or political, because there wasn’t a place for any of that negative shit here, it was just a community of open minded and chilled out people who enjoy the cartoonier & animalistic side of art.
Maybe I’m just remembering the past through rose-colored glasses, but after coming back from my own personal 2.5-3 yr. hiatus, I can see how much things have changed, and sadly, not for the better, in many ways I’ve noticed. Do I plan to keep doing furry artwork? Absolutely. It still brings me joy and peace, even when I’m busy with commissions. But as far as the social side of this fandom? I’ve generally been keeping most at arm’s length just for these reasons and changes I’ve observed as of late.
It’s actually refreshing to know I’m not alone in this observation, and I don’t think age has anything to do with this realization. I’m sorry to hear that you and your friends/loved ones went through such crazy shit, but I’m thankful in knowing those dickheads haven’t stopped you from sharing your work with us Thank you, hon. Stay kind 🤲🏻💚 but don’t take anyone’s bullshit 👊🏻

I never truly counted myself as a furry, though I do like some of the characters people design as proofs of concept - that, and some of the porn is actually tasteful (you just have to dig through a mountain of shit to find it; unfortunately, sometimes literally. Ugh). However, decent (both in skill and personality) artists are getting harder to find as more and more SJW extremists or just...bad artists, flock to this site. It's honestly to the point where I, unironically, would rather use tumblr. Their search engine is more up-to-date, tags actually work, there are more filters, gifs rely on WEBM rather than the prehistoric Flash, and so on. It's also easier to avoid the SJWs on tumblr. You're not constrained to a particular image size, either; the site adjusts it automatically to fit tumblr's formatting, and if you download or share that image externally, you get the true dimensions and file size of the image.

Regardless of all that, though - I'm really just too old and busy to give a shit about the drama. I have made some friends from this community, but on the whole, I never wanted to be a part of the community. If I think I'll like you, I'll try talking to you; if I don't, I won't. It's the same in the real world, for me. I'm not here for the community, nor for asylum or acceptance, and especially not for...ugh, cons. I'm here for the creations, to see people pursue their creative passions...and to be picky about pornography. Curse you, mostly vanilla tastes!

Social justice warriors and hyper leftwingers (calling them Alt-Left makes for a good triggering sometimes) are the modern-day societal cancer. I had written a lot more than this, but it had gone into a full off topic rant so I've dialed it back

You're not alone, lots of us can see the bullshit cultural dogma but don't worry, the Left eats it's own. There will either be a cultural civil war where the soy-guzzling shits will get their arses handed to them on the streets or they'll have their own version of a communist purge and destroy their own movement. Kinda like how MeToo is eating everyone who supports it. Or the Democrats are doing by pimping out a rabid socialist

> Throws accusations of MAGA and extreme right in same breath
> Claims centre



The left is censoring anyone who disagrees with them, and those they can't censor they smear, just like you did telling me I'm extreme right
Maybe you're the one who needs to look at things from another perspective

I’ve been a furry for about 7 years now. And I’m literally scared about the direction the fandom is going. The furry fandom has given me so much, including the love of my life, that it crushes me to see how messed up and divided it is right now.

I hear what you're saying, Kabs, and you aren't suffering alone in feeling disconnected. I'm one of the few Trump-supporting furries/scalies, and it's tough how others are so quick to bash without even knowing you. It's unfair :/

I wish you the best of luck through the rest of your time in the community as the years go by. It's really not easy being part of a fandom but reguardless we push away the hatred so we can keep doing what we love, and we've done that for years now as a fandom but it's heartbreaking to see furs turn on others like this. But always remember Kabier, you'll always have us to support you and Jason. Stay strong mate.

I have to agree with you. It seems any time you wish to contribute to a conversation or post, if you say anything that's contrary to the perceived viewpoint, you're called a horrible person or worse. I'm seeing FA as a place that's less and less hospitable towards anyone who voices a conservative opinion or ideology.

I miss the days where we could say, hey, I disagree with what you're doing/saying/etc., but I respect your right to make that choice/pose that argument/take that stance/etc. and not have to worry about an explosion of accusations, falsehoods, and vituperation that are vitriolic. For example, as you said, the accusation of being a Nazi. Other slights and slurs include bigot, zealot, spreader of hate, intolerant, xenophobe, homophobe, etc.

Admins need to realize that the hate exists on both sides, not just one. And right now, the hate seems to be firmly concentrated in those with far left views. As you said, I reiterate now. I'm not accusing everyone who's liberal, and I'm not spreading a smear over every person here on FA, but it's clear the admins are biased and letting more hurtful speech slide, if it stands behind the banner of a certain message or political stance.

I miss the days arguing actually was arguing, where a real dialogue and discourse could be opened in a neutral setting for people to discuss their stances, ideologies, and the pros and cons of both sides with not just pathos (AKA Raw Emotional Appeal), but logos (logic, facts, statistics, etc.) and ethos (AKA credibility/qualifications of the individual arguing his/her point and credibility/qualifications of his/her sources).

It doesn't help that if people level accusations or aspersions at you and block you, you don't even have the ability to rebuff them properly, because there's no way to respond to it then, and if the admins deem the commentary or aspersions within their idea of what the guidelines represent, then you're literally stuck with those words there and no way to refute.

Just do be careful that, in your reaction to extremism, you don’t become extremist yourself or worn away from a good idea that’s taken an off path.

Artists should certainly understand the lack of nuance when painting with a broad brush.

Best of luck to you. And I think I heard you got engaged? Congrats for that!

so basically the furry community is like the purge now? has that been what this furry community has been?
I'm not really familiar with what really happens with the furry community, cause i can't really attend crap, but that sounds bad.
i could get victimized if that is the case . kinda makes me not want to attend furry cons.
even though i've haven't even gone to a con before period.
now i just want to stay home and not get noticed online like usal. i feel better not being noticed anyways because if they could get to know me i'll definitely get swarmed with dislikes and hate comments.

For what my 2 cents are worth I think saying you are not a furry because of the problems is not good and distancing yourself is even worse. Remember the people that brought you under their wing when you were accepted to the furry fandom? Go back to them and see if they are still the kind furs you knew even if they don't consider themselves furry. I hope you realize you are now in the position to provide the same experience and welcoming to the many furs you meet. Becoming distant you won't be able to provide the welcoming and guidance like the ones did for you. Things are falling and need furs likes you to stand up for the values they believe in. It is good to make your opinion heard that Nazi Furs is absolutely ridiculous and you think it is a load of bullshit so others start catching on this Nazi stuff is just a vocal minority of furs.

As far as expand your art, absolutely do it. Exploring different thoughts and groups is a fantastic way to evolve yourself and art.

Hey mate, you do you. Your artwork’s still amazing. Although, like others may have said, you should probably reconnect with your original furry friends if you haven’t already.

As for FA’s and the furry community’s negative turn, I’ve identified it as a step of deevolution of an Internet community. This is when the political and opinion bubbles really start to expand but someday, they’ll pop, it’ll fall, and rebuild itself, only better hopefully.

Have fun exploring your art! I only hope you continue to post here since I don’t frequent Tumblr or Twitter.

I haven't touched the other platforms of the fandom yet due to posts like this one warning of toxicity. I've heard a lot about this through The Cuckshack and Kothorix already. I suppose I'm one of the lucky ones that has yet to encounter this for myself. I can understand why just ignoring it would be hard after seeing it every day. Sometimes a break away from things is the best course of action. Glad to see you have a plan already in place for proceeding forward as opposed to just throwing in the towel. Always love seeing your work and I think I always will!

I've been lucky and have dogged most if all the drama with furries or ponies, all my years on Tumblr I've never had any issues but then again I am nowhere near as popular, so that probably helps allot heh.

I've never really 'joined' or been active the furry community cause I can't socialize worth crap and am still kind of in the closet about it, but it is disheartening to hear that things have gotten so bad everywhere. Best of luck in making better connections and let's hope the community returns to the accepting safe-space it once was. Oh and really late but congrats on your engagement. I actually meant to write a short story for you guys in honor of it......but I'm lazy and couldn't get anything good enough down. Well, wish you the best.

Not just the fandom its like that everywhere now. Blame the political climate.

Also I find that funny that furries think that Nazis are going to sneak into a con to try and ruin it. Lol paranoia and a lack of grasp on reality.

I spent a good, long time looking into this issue and it's honestly not as bad as it first seemed. There are about 20 psychopaths on the war path against an imagined enemy. Everyone else is just bandwagoning, but not actually contributing any more than general agreement. If one of the aforementioned psychopaths decides to tweet something, write a journal, or issue a fatwa against an infidel, then the mindless masses will, of course, follow them. It's already starting to die out though. The masses are getting bored and moving on to fresher drama and the psychos are running out of things to say besides empty virtue signalling.

As for these supposed Nazi furs/fascists/racists or whatever, I maintain the same opinion on them that I've always had. They're a bunch of immature, brainless trolls whose only purpose in life is to get their jollies by upsetting as many people as they can. By pretending to be Nazis, or fascists, or Confederate supporters, they can continue to provoke massive negative reactions from others to feed the empty hole inside themselves.

The ultimate result will be that the small number of jackasses disrupting cons and posting bullshit will be blocked by everyone and banned from everything, and will therefore become non-entities. When that happens, the rabble-rousers who are firing up the angst furnaces in the fandom will have no real targets and will either shut up or come to be seen as the loons they are. Without any target or the loud voices to hold their attention, the brainless masses will shuffle on to the next thing to be outraged over. This will all be forgotten. The wounds will close, leaving some scars, but little lasting damage, and we'll all look back on this and idly wonder what everyone was thinking.

Preach!

Yeah my involvement with the fandom never really went beyond the point of appreciating artwork and occasionally chatting with people: it's always been basically an art appreciation hobby of mine. I think it's because I realized pretty early on that a huge chunk of this fandom are people who never quite grew out of high school. I grew rapidly disenchanted with the groupthink, popularity contests, territorial pissings, drama for the sake of drama, and just general selfishness of a lot of people I encountered and so I just kind of walked away from the social aspects of it.

I come here to appreciate the artistic works of creators such as yourself, and to unwind and explore my own imagination. I love to do that with other similarly minded people as long as we can keep it civil and ethical, but really sometimes it's good to just observe. While I don't always like EVERYTHING I see here, as long as it isn't breaking the law or hurting anyone what right do I have to tear you down? Some people need to remember the rule of "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."

I'm really sorry you've been subjected to such harassment by people who claim to be your "fans". Nobody deserves that kind of treatment.

The internet makes assholes out of everyone. Probably why I try to not spend too much time there lol.

An understandable, and sadly also observed matter. Mind, I've seen it on both sides the aisle here, and in many other places, but what you said pretty much sums it up. Sadly some of my friends who I was close with are starting to split apart over all this, and nothing I can do (I try to moderate, be the peacekeeper) seems to simmer it down, talk it out, see if we can smooth it over, and get an understanding. Sometimes it just ends with me in the cross hairs and starts a whole new shitstorm.

That said, I wouldn't write the Furry community off. There are still gems of folks among us, some who remember why we banded together at the start, no matter our stance on life or ideals. We were different, yet somehow we got along just fine. There's a lot more of them out there, and that gives me hope the fandom isn't in total danger. However, sometimes ya gotta distance yourself a bit to make that find.

For now, do what you love, how you love it. Art, gaming, chatting, there's still good furs out there to rub elbows with! Either way, good luck, and stay sane, alright?

Its understandable and its great you got to vent it out, repressing those thought can cause complications to ones psyche, I enjoy your art a lot, so im looking forward how your art sees the light of other genres, expanding is good good, cause when you expand those other genres influence each other and such, so hang in there bud.... I have a feeling that the fandoms... all of them are entering some weird dark age of sorts idk... I dont follow fandoms, but I do love patterns XD

Couldn't agree more. Still know that amongst all the crap there are still good down to earth people here.

i would fave that if i could but sadly fave's arent possible on journals ^^;

Seriously thouh, i wish that you will have a great time regardless of what you do c:
(i also look forward to be able to see your improvements ^^ )

I love this journal
I agree with this journal.
I share these sentiments.

I too have found that I no longer see the fandom as I once did.. While change can be good, this change was not. Like you, I miss the old days when friends were friends, not "followers". When the community was not addressed as a business model or recruitment effort to "up attendances". when furry was still taboo, not a trending fad and last but not least, when people were still allowed to be individuals without needing membership to some niche demographic beyond contradiction in order to warrant an opinion.

Regardless, you got to be able to be happy, just know there are those of us who feel that we are lucky for every day that you are here with us. For the art, the comics, the stories and time spent, this is how we celebrate this fandom. thank you)

The fandom today is not the community which I joined eight years ago. The community has undergone a near complete change, and one which I personally do not like. I have been forced into apathy and inactivity for the fandom due to all of the toxic behaviors as of the past couple of years. Originally, I came to the fandom to share a mutual interest without having to ruin the comradeship with political discourse. I could have a logical, grounded talk with someone, and we could agree to disagree. Now I can’t even walk out my front door or turn on my computer without being assaulted by political, social, and personal opinions. And if I do not enthusiastically agree with those opinions, then I am demonized with a variety of disrespectful, unoriginal, and irrational statements and titles. Hopefully it will improve, but most likely not so long as all but a handful of sides are suppressed from contributing to any meaningful discussion.

I haven't encountered this personally, but I've heard hints of it here and there now. :( It's very sad-- it's like the newest scare. Instead of narking on "Communists," it's Nazis. But worse because the internet exists and pitchfork mobs can be raised without effort. :( I think it might be a general problem, though, not just in the fur community, and it's finally trickled to this neck of the woods.

The media people take in does not help at all. If by default you are constantly told bad people are running amuck, and there's no coverage given to the good things, you're going to think everything is bad all the time.

I also don't trust that everything is reported correctly anymore... For instance, I live near a big nuclear site that produced WWII materials. It constantly has issues. A year or two ago, part of one of the tunnels where materials are stored collapsed. The news blew it up, when it was convenient, and several of the "facts" reported in several articles that I saw were inaccurate-- ones they could have verified even by looking up the Wikipedia article. Definitely put things into perspective for me. :[

The sad thing is, Kabier ... these wackos aren't confined just to our fandom. They are everywhere. They seem to be growing in numbers, and they exist in echo chambers where they feed off of the negative energy of their peers. This just causes them to embolden one another. Fortunately, they are cowards at their core. Just keep away from them in whatever capacity you can manage.

The far right religious control freaks and censorship brigade of the late 90s have somehow swapped places and are today's far left social marxist control freaks and censorship brigade, and have somehow out-done the amount of crazy I saw from the far right back in the late 90s.

And I'm with you, I have yet to see a "real" nazi fur... In fact I knew a fur (a gay guy with a WWII uniform fetish) tried to prove a point about how ridiculous a gay furry nazi was, way back when he tried to join an actual neo-nazi group and they almost murdered him just for mentioning furry or gay. Hell, he even said that nothing could be more insulting TO nazis than a gay furry having gay furry sex in a Hugo Boss leather ss uniform... But I guess the irony is lost on the "outrage brigade" nowadays.

Up until recently it was fun to mock and make fun of the whole nazi thing, speak in a gay german accent and throw limp wristed salutes for shits and giggles... Then people took that as somehow serious to the point that many people with uniform fetishes cant wear their outfits or have their characters drawn any more for fear of being called a "real" nazi and even be assaulted or threatened.

Sure the right will call these crazies commies, but it isn't very far from the truth as many of these people calling everyone they disagree with a nazi are usually proud "marxists"... Shit they will put it all over their profiles. I see way too much of the ol' "Hammer and Sickle" being glorified in the furry fandom without them even realizing the non-wartime body-counts from the communists would make even hitler blush... But that's because I studied history and know that NOTHING good comes from Marxist ideals (this includes Nazis as they wouldn't have existed without marxism/communism/socialism).

Right now all these nutjobs on the far left can do is exclaim ANYONE they don't agree with is a nazi... Even when I say nazis and communism/socialism are the worst ideas humanity can offer.... I'll still get called a nazi... Like, WHAT THE FUCK... I literally just said BOTH were the scum of the earth and I am still somehow a "nazi"... Okay then. @_@

I am, apparently, a gay, homophobic, Israel supporting, nazi....

Yeah... Not even a joke.

Furry used to be very "live and let live", and it was much easier to "Agree to disagree" before social media became the big thing of the day...

Sure there was drama and assholes but now it seems "Agree with me 110% or I will fucking ruin your actual real life with my online outrage brigade!" is the current order of business.

Hell, one of the things I miss most about the late 90s early 2000s fandom I fell in love with was the ACTUAL diversity, and diversity of THOUGHT, I found in the fandom. I met conservative furries, left wing and right wing furries, black and white furries, religious and non religious furries, people I agreed with and people I didn't agree with, and we could all be at a convention or furry party without trying to kill each other.

Now it has become far left echochambers and "self segregation" where even moderate left, centrists and libertarians, and moderate right types are being banned and blocked and censored and called all manner of names and false accusations just because they dared to disagree with some powertripping social marxist. I mean I wish I could point out some crazy coming from the right in the fandom, but I just have not seen it since the religious control freaks of the early 2000s got bored when gays could suddenly get married.

I never thought I'd see the furry fandom become some fucked up Ray Bradbury or George Orwell DYSTOPIA!

"Un-personing" is becoming a thing now, and all it takes is a fake text log and the right accusation to ruin someone and begin a witch hunt.

When it comes down to it, people need to get out of the echo chambers and stop being so goddamned sensitive... But with social media set up the way it is, that may be nearly impossible as the social media companies use actual psychological tricks to control and addict people and ban or censor any one that these tricks don't work on.

I just hope you and others like you feel a bit better that you are not alone in your line of thought and seeing things for what they really are.

A-fucking-men

Said a lot better than I ever could

Okay. First up, "antifa" is the default setting for healthy-minded people. It's a null term, like "a-unicornist" or "non-autodefenestrator." Running around like an indiscriminately belligerent moron, however, is not normal. Or at least it wasn't until recent years. Um, but... Just how many times have 'antifa members' "nearly beaten the life out of innocent passersby"? The last count I was aware of was zero, but humanity is fantastic at finding new ironic lows so I'm open to evidence to the contrary.

"Furry community" is... a misnomer. It's a common term that we all use, but it's wrong. This is a subculture, and there are communities and cliques within it. The furry subculture has always been at its own throat. Back in the late 1990s there was a particular furry organization which created a hate manifesto targeted at anyone who drew anything 'yiffy' and—infinitely worse—'lifestylers' (people with spirituality and/or identity invested into their fursona). In the case of the latter, one of the leaders of this organization stated that they should be, and I quote, "dragged into the streets and shot."

The furry fandom is bigger today, and there's a much larger pool of melodramatic boneheads to cause a ruckus (and in case anyone actually has the faintest clue who I am and thinks I'm a fine one to talk, yes I admit to being an elder bonehead who is now trying to mellow the fuck out, so mea culpa). Society in general has changed as well, with greater reach, and little sense of consequence. Everyone is an asshole, not just the furry fandom. No matter who you are or what you do, if you stand above the crowd someone will start firing shots at you. Yes, it sucks. I think we need some strong bullshit-handling tools, both digital and emotional.

If you want to feel like you're part of "the community," then you need to refine your idea of which community that is. That seems like a terse way to wrap this up, but... it's well past midnight, and my brain has turned back into a pumpkin. Just... Don't give as much thought to who you don't want to be around as who you do want to be around.

This spake truth

>Okay. First up, "antifa" is the default setting for healthy-minded people. It's a null term, like "a-unicornist" or "non-autodefenestrator."

compare: atheist - antitheist
"afascist" would be the null state. And that is not even counting that antifa is not just "anti fascist" but an actual group

>Um, but... Just how many times have 'antifa members' "nearly beaten the life out of innocent passersby"?
define innocent. If it's a demonstration but the other side was nonviolent, that wouldn't fit your definition of "passersby" but it would still be wrong, wouldn't it? and that happened many times now. Look for example at the bike lock incident - that could easily have been fatal. Google their liberal use of pepper sprays and molotov cocktails. Watch videos like this
Or read, for example, this: www.cnn.com/2017/08/18/us/unmasking.....-hard-left/index.html
CNN has a quite left-leaning bias, just saying.

I mean, seriously. Don't downplay antifa as just "don't like fascists". They're a violent militant organisation. They directly advocate violence (#punchanazi where the definition of what a nazi is includes anyone to the right of the person saying it) and a "by any means neccessary" way of doing things (eg violence again).
Antifa are thugs, just like neonazis. Two sides of the same coin.

Sorry to go on a tangent on this, but I really hate it when people act like those assholes were the good guys. They're not.

Show me the money.

Antifa is NOT the default stance of healthy minded people. Saying that ignores that being Antifa requires you to be politically far-left. While they call themselves anti-fascist, they have a tendency to see not just neo-nazis and white supremacists as fascists (which I have no problem with), but literally anyone on the right wing of the political spectrum. You can be a conservative that hates nazis and fascists, and most do, but you cannot be a conservative and be a member of Antifa.

The incident where Antifa beat up a left wing protestor for carrying an American flag because they view the US flag as fascist comes to mind: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar.....ifa-video.html

There are a number of stories of them beating up or harassing conservatives at various events, like the 'Say no to marxism" event: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news.....=.e8f3cb9c390a

Apparently disagreeing with Marxism is "hate", even though its been a mainstream conservative position for 80 years, and used to be a US liberal mainstream position too. There are of course times when Antifa attacks white supremacists and neo-naizs, but there just aren't that many of them marching around openly, so they go after conservatives instead. This is what I and many others have an issue with.

That first video... is really weird. It's like a tenth grade drama class trying to portray a riot. Which is interesting, given that the "antifa" involved are universally dressed in black with hoods and bandanas or helmets, and two of them came to the protest wearing amateur riot gear. Whether or not Welch was in on it I don't know, but this was blatantly a deliberate attempt to start a riot. Checking on Snopes turned up the wrong story, but interestingly all the "antifa" involved in that beating were also wearing all black with hoods and bandanas. Similar costumes have shown up at all sorts of protests and other large events, political or otherwise, and caused trouble there as well. But it all makes a great story about how stupid and violent the left is, doesn't it?

Second article... first sentence contains the phrase "black bandanas and hoodies". And later, "homemade shields". Interesting. And again, it all just goes to show how violent the oppressive left is in a world of poor little alt righties. Yeah, I don't buy it for a second. These guys have been paid. Let me tell you what "alt left" bullshit looks like. It's groups shouting stupid chants to drown out public speakers. It's pulling fire alarms to interrupt events. It's disgusting and obnoxious, but it isn't violent. And as it turns out, a number of antifa accounts and online campaigns have been proven to be false flag setups originating from 4chan, members of the alt-right, and even Russia. So why not generate some convincing footage as well?

Considering most Antifa types are late teen/early twenty-something arts majors that's probably not far off with the tenth grade drama class comparison. Dressing in black is a tactic known as Black Bloc, where they all wear black to make it harder to identify in case of police actions. While they used to be only anarchists, Antifa is increasingly using black bloc tactics:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news.....bloc/97393870/

This explains it further: https://www.occupy.com/article/unma......E2tbH3W2.dpbs

As for the videos in the articles, violence tends to make the side initiating it look stupid and violent, but violence is not limited to the right wing. Even if the right wing statistically commits more violence (so far), that doesn't mean the left is incapable of it or every instance of left wing violence is a false flag. Of course there is a running joke that lefties get "Soros money" for protesting, so maybe they have been paid. Politically motivated hooliganism on college campuses has been ongoing for several years, and it's generally not violent (though it can be intimidating when you're the target of it). But violence has been rising, and the increasing tendency toward censorship with that violence is also disturbing.

Honestly I think we're more or less on the same page. I'm just a bit off balance over the response to sloppy wording.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3q6W4nbVmiM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2_.....1Wg&t=150s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOjX74ATzfo


These are just a few instances where Antifa attacked someone for little to no reason, and the little reason is political differences. So no the default position isn't antifa because of what these people represent and how they've acted. Even Left wing outlets and groups who would originally defend them have outright denounced them because of the senseless violence this group creates. Especially after they've been labeled a terrorist origination. So at this point Furaffinity is say "we're perfectly OK with terrorists so long as we agree with them politically."

Don't know what's up with the guy in the first video, but the word "antifa" doesn't even come up. Second and third videos—black hoods. Always, always the black hoods. Stereotypical terrorists.

Here's what I think. I think that very few actually call themselves "antifa," and that those who do are being stupidly led into performance propaganda by the right wing. This shit has nothing to do with anti-fascism. It's just a band of suspiciously clad assholes performing reprehensible acts in the name of people who specifically don't want that kind of a world.

>Second and third videos—black hoods. Always, always the black hoods
>I think that very few actually call themselves "antifa,"

uh.. are you willfully ignorant? Those black hoods is called the black bloc, an antifa tactic. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/29/.....c-fashion.html

Yeah—an "antifa tactic" dating back to well before 2016 and appearing at everything from environmental protests to sporting events.

And how does this qualify as a "tactic," anyways? "Hey, let's go beat the crap out of a few random people! That'll accomplish left-leaning goals!"

Also, way to ad hominem.

it wasn't an ad hominem but an observation. first you go "antifa doesn't do anything". you get proven wrong. then you go "those were totally no true scotsmen"

I'm pretty sure the barely-averted accusation that I am "willfully ignorant" qualifies.

More accurately... What I mean is that "antifa" is a stolen term which is almost certainly being abused by the right wing by applying it to a bunch of straw villains of their own creation. And I have a problem with that because it's working, and turning public opinion against those who actually oppose fascism.

One can oppose fascism and not be Antifa. I do.

SjW (social justice warrior) is the term the right often applies to anyone left of center to make a straw-man villain. Antifa is reserved for far leftists that commit violence against their political opponents (who may or may not be nazis/fascists). Alt-right used to be in the same category, it was reserved for far-right racial supremacists who committed violence against those they disliked (leftists, minorities, jews, etc), but increasingly I see it being applied to broader groups of people on the right-wing.

It would be better if everyone just agreed that authoritarian ideologies suck in general and to not encourage those holding them.

Okay, fine, "antifa" is a hate group. It's a fabricated group of mercenary straw men and a few impressionable idiots, but whatever. I just fucking hate seeing liberty successfully turned into a big scaaaaaaaary bogeyman.

Antifa isn't a fabricated group. You can literally see hundreds of videos of them walking the streets in black hoods calling themselves Antifa. Damn near most of the time they show up it immediately gets violent. Also since when is the Antifa group liberty? Beating people on the streets for beyond idiotic reasons is not liberty. It actively flies in the face of liberty.

Also the guy in the first video got his head smashed open with a bike lock from a self proclaimed Antifa activist.

Okay. You know what? Fuck all of this. "Hitler." Thread over.

They beat a guy unconscious at the original Berkley riots. He wasn't even there for milo's speech. he was just someone in the area. His friends tried to pull him out after they hit him in the back of the head with a shovel but the mob of Antifa coming at them forced them to make a choice to go without him or get caught and all of them beaten. We then have the patriot prayer group, which no matter how many times people try to say it, when they're protesting by getting on their knees and praying, you can't call them violent. In that situation there were a father and son not even connected to the patriot prayer group who were just walking through the area who were attacked by Antifa, they were of Mexican descent and were still called Nazis.

These are people unconnected to the actual event harmed by Antifa in the process, whether you want to call the people who created the initial event evil or not. these were individuals unconnected, they were in the wrong place at the wrong time and Antifa took it upon themselves to attack them.

Not really frightened or super affected by all of this (since i don't go to cons) and outside of posts i see on twitter regarding this stuff i don't hear about it. But i certainly piece together everything in the way you mention it. Anti-nazi furry stuff gets spread around like 1/3 of the community are nazies but yet most have probably not even seen a nazi fur (which i worry makes people look for them and end up getting the wrong people instead)

Its saddening to hear about the hate you get sent your way though, i only know of one drama situation that spawned from something Jason said but even then that wasn't hate speech as many liked to claim it as. More of a lack of understanding or disagreeing opinion with what others think and you shouldn't get hate or worse, death threats for something like that.
I feel that those 0,01% of the fandom that are facists know very well at this point that they aren't welcome and we should instead adress the whackjobs sending threats and hate to people over slightest disagreement or misunderstanding. Because unlike the nazi furries this is a much larger percentage of the fandom doing this and it helps no one.

I'm sorry to hear about the awful things people have said to both you and Jason, but thankfully the posts ive seen had plenty of suporters of you guys defending you, me included. So you aren't alone in all of this. You have people who see clearer than these tumblr folks looking for their next victim to harass and bully and defend their actions by saying its for a 'good cause'

Damn there are so many points that you brought up that I wholeheartedly agree with.

Twitter especially, I never post on there anymore. All I'll do now is check my favourite official twitter accounts for updates on games etc.
Furry Twitter is way too damn toxic, full of drama and other shit. It is just popularity contest.

These 'popufurs' think that they're celebrities because they have more than 2000+ followers.
They should remember that they're FURRIES.

Thats how sjw's work you dont agree with everything i say? You're nazi racist whatever it has sadly become popular for morons to call everyone they dont like nazis even though they have no fucking idea what a nazi is and dont even get me started on antifa... Anyone who counts themswlves among their number you are litteraly no better than an actual nazi

What's antifa?

Just google it they are group of peple who will harass and physically assault people who disagree with them they claim to fight "white supremacy" but are blind ro their facism tldr they are a hate group that has even been labeled domestic terrorists in the US

Ok yeah, I was reading it antiFA like anti-Fur Affinity and going... That can't be right lol

Lol

"anti-fascist"

They are a left wing movement of "ant-fascists", where anybody from actual neo-nazis to libertarians are considered fascist. They then commit acts of violence against those they deem fascist.

Not like those poor innocent Fraternal Order of Alt-Knights, or the Proud Boys, of course.

When I say "not like", just to be clear, I mean FOAK and Proud Boys are faaaar more violent.

Doesn't change the fact that they are violent people who attack anyone they deem fascist even when that person is on their side.

Where in my comment did I say the alt-right isn’t violent? They are , as Charlottesville and numerous other incidents show. However, antifa doesn’t just go after the alt-right with their violence either. If they did I wouldn’t have much of an issue with them.

Antifa is as much a group as the alt-right is. I'm specifically highlighting groups within the alt-right, not just tossing a blanket over it and saying "THEY'RE ALL THE SAME". That's divisive, the same kind of divisive that Kabier is calling out in this journal.

Though, to be fair, her comments about triggered sjw snowflakes makes it pretty clear she's only calling out one side on it.

I agree, the two sides are not the same. The alt-right does some bad shit Antifa doesn't and Antifa does some bad shit the alt-right doesn't. Both have major faults and flaws though.

The reason Kabier is mad at Antifa and SJW types is because for the last several months they have been harassing her. The alt-right furries are not doing this, as far as I am aware, so there isn't a "both sides" argument in this situation. If asked , I'm sure she doesn't like the alt-right either.

That said, calling out Antifa/SJW bad behavior doesn't automatically make someone alt-right/nazi/fascist, and calling out alt-right/nazi/fascist bad behavior doesn't automatically make someone Antifa/SJW. I'm not really sure how it came to be that way.

Becuse they are indeed both the same - they are violent extremists. However, one extremist side has been condemned from this site, while the other extremist side has been patted on the head and told "Have at it"

To the vast majority of rational people in the middle, obviously both sides of extremism shouldn't be tolerated, but FA inexplicably tolerates one of them. That's why this journal is about that side and the hypocrisy as such.

"That said, calling out Antifa/SJW bad behavior doesn't automatically make someone alt-right/nazi/fascist, and calling out alt-right/nazi/fascist bad behavior doesn't automatically make someone Antifa/SJW. I'm not really sure how it came to be that way."

I've been wondering that same thing for a couple years now. It truly boggles the mind.

Thank you, finally I don’t feel alone with this mindset.


I would say I’m fairly an optimistic (albeit somewhat ignorant person) but I tend to see my own thoughts aren’t gonna change just because a group or whatever tends to say otherwise and pick it apart

I see all these walls of text and really it's simple, who cares? If people are going to be toxic let them, do you, hang out with people who accept you and like you and who cares about what everyone else thinks?

That's already more said about it than I planned to say on the matter.

Do you, the important people will let you.

Even before I joined FA, before I even became a 'Furry,' I was already seeing so much hate from people in the first game community I ever joined. All my life, even before such titles as Antifa or Feminists showed...I already saw hatred from people my own age, slightly older...hell, when I was in middle school, walking into the school, I passed by a kindergarten school, and I would hear these little kids yelling out at us, "HEY FUCK YOU ASSHOLES!"

I've always known there was hatred out there in the world. Yet somehow, I always seem to try and see the good in people...rather than the ugly truth. I suppose, to some degree, that's been the only reason why I never got my head dunked into anything of these low-life 'communities.'

Even when I first joined the fur community, first by joining YiffStar (now SoFurry), even on Day One of chatting and RPing with others...there was hatred. There were people always looking to snip and snap and chop at others...like there was no humanity in them to speak of, only just hatred for everyone.



If I had to speak honestly, which I would do so anyway? You have to know there will always be the horrible, the deranged, the ridiculous and the hateful, but just because you know that there is an evil out there, if they aren't causing you harm or grief, disturbing your life, it pays to just remain blissfully ignorant of them all. Pushing them all to the side, out of your way, staying on the path forwards...it ain't easy, but it gets easier as you get older and realize how easy it is...

Hell, even now, I'm dealing with a jealous 'ex-boyfriend' who manipulates and controls his friends to harass...my girl wants to protect me, but so far, all these 'puppies' have done is bark and show the cutest of little teeth. What's the easiest solution here? Just ignore the barkers, and if they try to bare teeth and claws, remove 'em instantly. And if I have to do it repeatedly, then it's a reportable offense to whatever program/client I am using. lol He and his cohorts can bark and spit poison at me and those of my Twitch Streaming Discord...but it matters little when I have the power to cut off the head of the snake. lol

Sometimes I feel like 85% of humanity needs to just simply...vanish. Off the face of the Earth. If people would just have more common sense and understanding...just think of the possibilities for the future.

Your work has always brought me joy. I'm sorry that you've been subjected to what sounds like a terrible group of people. You should never be made to feel persecuted in what was originally such an accepting fandom. Maybe the acceptance went too far and now there are clusters of crazies finding each other. I'm not sure.

In any case, take care of yourself. You deserve to be happy.

This furry nazi frenzy and paranoia started when furry raiders "raided" Rocky Mountain Fur Con quitting it once and for all. After that the presence of alt right groups within the fandom came to Light and then , sites like Furaffinity Here started to ban people close to these groups, then the fandom went nuts and everyone is labeled as a nazi

About Twitter, i'm very sorry for your Death threats... People in this fandom is going mad, last things we need is La Revolution against the absolutist regime of Popufurs.
It's becoming like a sorta of furry Facebook, with drama and gossip about other furries (at least there are not already people appearing from nowhere and asking you to Roleplay, but soon...)
Trust me, I was very tired of the drama about keru.

It is good to Explore other sites and new communities, you Could improve as an artist and have fun
Leaving all the madness of this fandom


Good luck for the future

I agree the furry community has changed in recent years. But I don't think the furs we met 10 years ago have changed so much but the new generation of furries that joined the recent years has. They bring their views into the community and change it to their liking whereas we old hags and pops leave or die out. This is a self enforcing circle. The new furs not just outnumber us they also invest a lot of time spreading their views. The second thing is also true for nazi-furs and other extremist groups. I agree that they're a minority but they scream the loudest, slowly poisoning the well. I had the misfortune of meeting nazi-furs on two cons (last year's EF and Schwarzwald-Con) and had to leave friends for their extreme and threats they made against my boyfriend.
These people are real and dangerous for our community. I think it's goog that fa takes a stance against it but I think it does a bad job on it by explicitly in/excluding certain groups and now even takes actions for things people post outside FA.
I never heard of a pro pedophile rally on twitter or any site, usually the other way around where they find furries that are into cub porn and than they claim that they therfore are pedophiles and therefore sex offenders and then terrorize them into suicide.

In general I agree that the community has changed but I think the last thing we should do is to give up. Instead we should hold our values even higher and act accordingly, even taking the fight back. I don't want the get the term Furry captured by them.

Hmm yep, it's the best Solution, to go on and hoping for an improvement.

The politics a la Take Back Our Fandom, a group active in the 1990's opposing "lifestylers" and aiming to kick'em out are outdated for current standards

I don't think that a group is a good way, because they react slow and tend to get cought in internal affairs. I just try to be the best furry I can by giving my art and live up to the standards I set for myself, being tolerant, open minded, critical about my own ideas and believes, adhering to reason and not being too dickish. (It's hard already)
I think it's best to set a good example instead of activley trying to convince people.

You know what, you're right. One of my partners is a former Nazi and it isn't dehumanizing or alarming. We love the fuck out of each other and I'm a brown man. He's also a man. I'm fairly certain this wouldn't be acceptable if he were checking in with his... what is a gaggle of Nazis?

I met a Nazi aesthetic enthusiast (?) in New York. She wasn't racist at all (also clearly not homophobic). She liked the uniforms. It's just a god damn fetish for some people. Oh lordy, the skies are falling. Here comes an Italian, a black woman, a mulatto and a Nazi, all decked out in fetish gear. But first, drinks.

I like some artists on here that draw Nazis and it isn't propaganda. Propaganda isn't bad art, is fun but often monochromatic or too sexual.

I do think it's a cheap shot to frame antifa (?) members as sympathized sex offenders. Also if we're being completely honest about both sides (assuming we aren't on either side), the right is frat houses and churches and boy scouts and the military. Celibacy, chastity, cosplay, leather, guns, age gap, incest, rape fantasy, some FUN stuff, but also shitty stuff. Antifa members are just a bunch of hooligans that read way too much Noam Chomsky (he's great, at least I think so). The left is scooter rentals and gluten free tortillas. Mortified white people from Southern California and NY.

What they did to you was illegal, though, and they completely lose me in conversation when they try to justify breaking the god damn law. There's nothing healthy about being a miscreant. They convinced several individuals to harass you while you were in a hospital, as an organized group? Forgive them if they crawl back! It's the best revenge.

My partner isn't proud of bein' a Nazi. I tease him about it because he shouldn't feel bad. He's a beautiful human being. He's FUN. People need to calm down and turn off... well I won't say that, it's too vintage. Not to sound like yer dad, but anyone that doesn't think for themselves isn't worth knowing, so what have you lost? If anything the experience executes as a sieve.

We all should know who our fair-weather leather friends are and who our cadre is, who is decent and not uncivilized. The rest of us are just trying to subsist off of conservative drug use and weird sex and idleness.

Stepping away is good for people, I agree with that idea. Sometimes I like to leave this tangle of association, this town, will take [redacted] to the coast and fuck up a motel room. I mean, everyone else is doing it, or they should be. George Michael made that pretty clear.

The growing toxicity in the fandom is getting out of hand, all because a bunch of overly sensitive little snowflakes like to pick and choose who their enemies are, and if you're friends with anyone or by third-party associates who you don't agree with or like. Libtards with their so-called political correctness. I don't align myself with either sides, I'm very dead center neutral of the political spectrum and will observe both sides, and just simply point out where each side is wrong. I never bother with the drama that consumes this fandom, because everyone seems to like drama for the sake of causing drama because they got nothing better to do than get a 1-up on themselves to make themselves feel better about themselves by bringing down other people, because the sad reality is their own lives are boring and pathetic, and "Hey, if I can make this other person feel bad, I'll feel better about myself." it's not my thing to follow along in the hate trend, or taker sides. I have a better and more methodical approach to these kinds of situations.

The cycle of drama that consumes this fandom follows this specific formula trend:

1. Find something to be offended about by someone.
2. Keep bringing up past history about someone repeatedly until it becomes their half-truth-lie.
3. Go out your way to spread rumours and false information about everywhere you can.

Those "Nazi Furs Fu*k Off!" ribbons are just fucking ridiculous, and again I have to reiterate, that I take no sides in any of this kind of behaviour. People spreading more hate for the sake of spreading more hate, then they wonder why get chastised for it from other people. I have very little respect for people who will flash these things around spreading more hate through words and imagery like that. They don't solve the issue at all, and just pretty much makes you look bad just for flashing a ribbon like that around wherever you go. Then you got those other people who are "Yeah let's go punch some Nazi's!" ...Really? You're gonna retort to violence just to feel better about yourselves by punching someone? It just makes you look as bad as they do when they respond with the same gesture or find some other way to get back at you through legal means. Attacking someone because their own political views don't align with your own is just outright stupid, and a one way ticket to land yourself with a fine for breach of the peace.

People have been making some efforts to crack down on hate crimes committed online, just as much as offline to punish anyone who sends unsolicited hate messages to someone. You know it's pretty bad when your government has to step in to punish people for hate crime online. Just look at the UK government for example, some of the stuff they list that's considered hate crime is considered a little too overbearing for some of the things they list as a hate crime according to the UK govt. website Citizens Advice.

I completely agree with you, this is not the same community i joined in 2007. Its even sadder knowing posts like this will be seen as a attack, seeing how you have to protect yourself by saying its not, instead of a eye opener of a community that needs to change.

Luckily i haven't recieved backlash, mainly do to avoiding these blasts and refusing to participate in the majority, but reading them just makes my heart ache. Im proud of people like you reliseing the negative shift and standing up and doing what you need to to improve. We all should do something of the sort, and not give these toxic people who destroyed our community power.

I also noticed a certain change in the community over the past years, like the permanent focus on problems that aren't even problems or harrassing people that never have done anything to anyone, believing more gossip than proven innocence. Not to mention the big problems you described, it's just sad how this goes. But I think that's not just in this fandom, I have the feeling that's a change in society itself, benefited by the anonymity of social media and the growing anger against minorities and foreigners. Looking at politics and the general social climate is not really helping. But I get off the point.

I also struggle with seeing myself as furry, I am just here to enjoy the art and care for the great people I met here. Despite all the negative things we shouldn't forget the positive sides of the fandom and why we joined it in first place, it's all still there, just overshadowed by all the bad shit happening currently. I don't wanna trivialise all of the problems, but if we just focus on them, we will sooner or later lose our hope and mood completely.
I still have faith for changes and that people learn over time and with the right stimulation. Not all of course, but if we keep up spreading positivity and work against this threats together, common sense can win in the end.

In terms of the "hate groups", the CoC just mentions examples. That counts for everybody of course that violates this rules, also for "Antifa". But the part of executing and punishing for violating the rules is another thing of course. In this terms the administration should be more thorough, rather than suspending people for wrong tags in years old posted art.

You don't have to be part of the community to be a fur. I consider myself a fur. That's how I feel at heart.
But I've been feeling and seeing the same disconnect for the last few years now.
I wouldn't go so far as to say the fandom is dead like some others, though I do think it is heavily fractured.
This does not feel like the same fandom I joined 13 and a half years ago.

Though I don't think it's a furry specific problem, as I've seen some of these same issues in other fandoms before.
I think it's more of a society issue as a whole that unfortunately leaks down into our fandoms.
I'm sure there are many other reasons why things are like this now, but it still sucks to know the state of affairs here has gotten this bad.

Thank you for calling out the hypocrisy with Antifa. I just joined the fandom about two months ago and it’s more polarized than I thought

Read through a chunk of the relies and I'm glad to hear you aren't leaving over a bunch of dorks. Honestly, if folks let idiots drive them off, it's a quick way to let them destroy something. I think the key is to calling out stupid when you see it and making sure it gets changed/fixed.

Amazing where we are at right now. Just seeing from the sheer amount of people who took a moment to reply. Wow. I guess you are definitely not alone in this, dear Kabier. And from how you described these 'sjw' people I thought I would be seeing something equally toxic in the comments... But no! Everyone here has a decent opinion, often even with supporting context. It seems you have managed to scrape together not only likeminded individuals, but also people who can put it into a perspective.
One thing I do see is how the general consensus is rather negative about these 'sjw's' in the Furry community. I personally have not had that much experience with it, but it seems like they really wish to ruin people's days.
First thing that came to my mind: Don't these people have ANYTHING better to do? Hell, I saw in one of your replies that they often annoy you on Twitter. Why even bother an artist? Why not just enjoy the art? HELL, make some lovely art yourself!? And if you truly disagree with someone on the other side of the political/social/whatever spectrum, why not start a NORMAL dialog? In stead of labelling all of the opposing teams 'nazi' or whatever? Hell, why bring (social)politics into a fandom/subculture anyway!? Aren't subcultures meant to escape from those!?!? I normally steer clear from anything politics related, and then only because any opposite team would backlash, as apparently opinions are an issue nowadays. But since this essay was so nicely written, and the comments are so well behaved and decently supportive opinions, I couldn't help but throw in my 2ct. I hope that's ok. n_n
Also, Kabier, I couldn't help but loose my marbles from laughing when you mentioned 'Tumblr Lite' XD Amazing!
Anyway, to anyone who reads this: be nice to others, don't bring politics into a fandom that is not built around a single political view, and have a very furry nice day!!!
And just so we're clear: all the above is but my humble opinion.

I doubt anyone is going to actually read this comment much less give it any kind of real critical thought before immediately just dismissing it as more ramblings of some Far left antifa extremist but I still feel obligated to try anyway.

I'm going to try to be as respectful and Analytical in my comments as I can be even though I know people are still going to get pissed off or not listen.

First off and most importantly while the furry community originally started off as something neutral that was exclusively about anthropomorphic animals in the last 20 years or so it morphed into something not necessarily more political but with a clear ideological leaning. It became a place of acceptance, four people that were looked down on and discriminated against in various ways to find a safe haven or they could express themselves period a safe space if you will. God forbid anyone get triggered by that term. Especially in LGBT circles a lot of them came to the furry community partially because they had an interest in anthropomorphic animals, sure, but mostly because the community was absolutely welcoming and open to those people. So it became something a little bit different than say the Star Trek fandom which as a concept is apolitical because the community itself inherently became a place of Tolerance and acceptance. And as much as people may want to argue against it the conservative right-wing viewpoint is heavily heavily heavily disproportionately responsible for the vast majority of intolerance. Progressives are the ones that fight for things like gay marriage and transgender rights, conservatives are the ones that try to ban transgenders from bathrooms or try to use religious arguments to override legal statutes and deny gays citizens marriage licenses. That is a fact. I don't feel I should have to go into all of the numerous examples I could list but if you actually know enough about politics to have an informed opinion then you should know that is the case. So while the community has never been political in a broad sense it does have and inherent bias towards Progressive ideology because that's what it became a Haven for.

And that's why it rails so violently against heavily conservative viewpoints that have become more and more prevalent in recent days. You can't go around in a community that became mainstream on the idea of acceptance of Tolerance by trying to spout ideals like transgender individuals are not people or that gays shouldn't be allowed to be married or that we should ban all Muslims from the country. Those two ideologies are mutually exclusive from one another.

Look up the concept called the Paradox of Tolerance by Karl Popper. He was a respected philosopher that argued the idea the absolute tolerance will lead to the end of Tolerance. Because in a society of absolute tolerance you tolerate even people that are intolerant against others such as for example white supremacists, Nazis, anti-semitism, Muslim extremists, and any other group of people then inherently hates others for arbitrary reasons. And if you tolerate these intolerant people eventually they will get their way and they will spread their intolerance and your tolerance Society is no longer tolerant. Extremists thrive on acceptance because when you accept them you give them validity and make their opinions and viewpoints of viable for other people to consider. That's why there are large groups of people on the political left today that are so outraged about some of the things that have gone on in society and why a group like antifa exists

The Southern Poverty Law Center which is an incredibly respectable Institution that has absolutely no viable reason for anyone to dispute what they say, does not classify antifa as a hate group because they do not withhold an ideology of hatred against an accepted aspect of society. It goes back to the tolerance Paradox, the only people that antifa are intolerant against are those that are intolerant themselves. Neo-nazis and white supremacists. You can't be intolerant for refusing to tolerate other intolerant people, that is a paradox. No I'm not going to sit here and defend that group because I have very mixed feelings about some of the things they do. Sometimes they do really great things and they should be applauded other times they're little more than domestic terrorists but that's not the point.

The point is is that so many people on the left side of the political Spectrum are outraged because there is so much more active open intolerance in America specifically in the World At Large and not only is no one doing anything about it but the people in power are actively encouraging it. I mean people on the right like to scream about how everyone is getting labeled in Nazi just because we disagree with some of the things that they say but are you fucking kidding me? We had a literal actual Nazi rally of actual self about Nazis actually marching through an American town in modern day God damn America actually chanting Nazi propaganda while actively caring around torches. There was literally, and I use that word literally literally, a torch wielding mob of literal Nazis marching through America. And what did our president say? He equivocating and said there were bad people on both sides, implying there are good people on both sides. Well I'm sorry but there's not a good Nazi. That is an oxymoron

Things like Nazism and white supremacy are incredibly difficult to fight because they are ideas. And we can't police thought and even if we could, we shouldn't. I can't go into jimbob's head and make him stop hating black people. The only thing that we can do is we as a society collect together and put pressure on those worst aspects of society and drive them to the fringes of our society. Forcing them away so they do not feel comfortable expressing their toxic beliefs until either a their beliefs wither and die from lack of air and oxygen, or be maybe if we're lucky they have an epiphany and try to figure out why it is that all of society hates them and maybe realizes that their ideology is wrong. And it is wrong. We have definitively prove that. We fought the deadliest war in human history to prove that Nazi ideology is unacceptable in any form within modern society and the fact that this even has to be a discussion topic would have World War II veterans rolling in their graves if they knew it was happening.

No I agree that the term Nazi has been thrown around way too much in the past decade or so but the problem is, is that because it was used so fast and loose by both sides now that we have actual, and again I cannot believe this is a thing I have to say, torch-wielding Nazis marching through American streets chanting Nazi chants, people try to brush it off as saying oh it's just people overreacting and calling any person they don't agree with a Nazi again.

I mean really. In the original Journal you say that every Community is having this problem where everyone is railing against these groups of supposedly oppressed conservatives. It's literally everyone is doing it just for the sake of argument just take a second to ask yourself wait if literally every Community has a problem with this type of person quit there potentially, just maybe be a tiny chance that maybe that group of people is in the wrong with every other community in existence has a problem with them. Just take a little bit of self-reflection and just try to ask yourself why it is you think so many people would be angry at this type of person. Even a decade ago it didn't matter how much we disagreed Democrats and conservatives could still be friends and still have conversations. So ask yourself what's changed in that last 10 years?

There's been a rise of extreme right-wing conservatives that have an actual caucus in Congress. A black man was elected as president and then obstructed by the Republican Congress for most of his tenure. And as a new generation of more open-minded and tolerant youth come to voting age at every single pole constantly say they want things like gay marriage and Single Payer Health Care and to take care of our own goddamn territories like Puerto Rico, the majority in Congress votes the exact opposite of the majority of the country.

Which gets me to my next point about this alt-left talking point. Because I despise the term alt left because it is a total fictional fabrication. There is no such thing as a note left. And I'm sure if anyone has actually made it to this point you're probably foaming at the mouth wanting to scream at me and tell me I'm wrong but listen and hear me out. There is an ultra-light. That is undeniable. That is the Tea Party, the freedom caucus. They actively Proclaim themselves the alt-right and have pushed the entire political Spectrum to the right. That's why they are so violent toxic against people like John McCain who were conservative but not extremist because those two groups are juxtaposition of the old and the new guard of the Republicans. But here's the thing. There's no comparable group on the left. There's no group of extreme leftists that are calling for us to switch to Communism into Force Chastity cages on all white males that are in Congress. I mean of course I guarantee if you go on the internet you'll find some people that call themselves progressives Or democrats that want communism. In the same way that if you go on the internet you can find a bunch of conservatives that still want to Lynch black people. But the fundamental difference is that that group of extremists on the conservative side have actual political power, those crazy people on the left don't. When some extreme feminist steps up and tries to say they are a Democrat and calls for all men to be put in cages and milked for their sperm the Democrats and the people on the left will call them crazy and tell them to shut up and sit down. When an extreme conservative on the right says that Mexicans aren't real people and we should lock them up in tent cities in the desert and not feed them like a certain Sheriff who will remain nameless and got a pardon from president Trump, the fucking conservatives applaud him and try to get him into goddamn Congress

And that's the problem with the alt left, they have shifted the entire political Spectrum. So now conservative ideology is considered Centrist, Centrist ideas are considered left and anything even remotely Progressive is considered extreme far left propaganda communistic socialism Mad Max Anarchy and while I'm not trying to get conspiracy theory mind up in here it would not surprise me if that was not the plan all along

So all I'm really saying is that if there is so much of multiple communities that have a problem with the way that some of you people think and act before you immediately start screaming and ranting that everyone else is in the wrong and you are the only one that is right I ask is just take a second to actually think and ask why it is they feel that way. Why are there so many people against you. And if so many people really are against you is they're not just a tiny chance that maybe you're in the wrong and should change something? Because honestly if you're the type of person that gets offended when someone hands out a flag that says nazis fuck off the only reason I can think that you would get offended by that is you identify with Nazi ideology. I mean when I hear someone saying fuck child molesters I don't get offended and identify with child molesters because I am not one.

And as a quick little side note because I saw someone else mention it, free speech is not a magic spell that gets you out of everything. It does not protect you from consequences of what you say or do it only means that the government cannot punish you for saying or doing those things and even that has limits. But specifically asked for that thing about why the Nazi first fuck off tags were allowed at that Furry Convention but those people that were walking around and fucking alt furry knots the armbands were not allowed is A: because Nazis are a hate group and telling them to fuck off it's not a problem. And. B: the convention takes place in God damn Germany were American free speech does not matter and Germany has an actual ban on Nazi ideology, a government ban that says you're not allowed to show Nazi memorabilia so those people were actually breaking the goddamn law. And Germany has free speech just not for things like that. They made a specific exception we're Nazi ideology. And guess who's literally the only people in all of Germany that care that they're not allowed to show Nazi memorabilia and iconography in all of Germany? Neo-nazis

So I know I got a little bit aggressive at the end of there and I apologize but I just get so frustrated that this even has to be an argument. If you are offended by someone saying that Nazis need to fuck off then you need to reevaluate why you identify yourself with Nazis

I think you need to re-read what Kabier is saying, and then read what you typed....

But, if you want a quick summing up of the problems that you seem to be ignoring...

I am an immigrant to my country. I came as the child of an immigrant and of a born citizen. I am pro-legal immigration, paperwork and work periods and all that fun stuff. I am anti-extremism, violence by any side is bad. Charlottesville was horrific. So was Berkeley. Antifa and the Alt-Right are horrifically violent, and both sides have calls to violence. Both sides are evil.

By saying this, I was labelled a "Xenophobic White Supremacist Nazi Sympathiser".

I'm a gay, furry, Japanese/Scottish Canadian with family that fought on both sides of the Pacific War. My Ojiisan is appalled at the state of political discourse right now. How dare you say that WWII veterans would be rolling in their graves. They're rolling alright, but not for reasons you think.


Also Your comment about child molsters had me in stitches because... well... correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Antifa march against Mike Cernovich with a banner that read "No Pedo Bashing"?
Also Also Germany has a ban on espousing the ideology and symbology of specific parties (such as the Hakenkreuz, broken Solar Cross (Thule Society), the 3rd Reich Eagle, the SS Sig rune, the red star, the symbol of the Communist Party (Hammer and Sickle), ISIL flag, etc). Memorabilia such as coins, medals, weapons, uniforms, etc are all still legal to possess and display in accordance with Strafgesetzbuch section 86a (... For the purposes of art, science, research, teaching, or recreation (which is defined as without political intent)).

Hopefully this was informative and helped shine some light on all this. Have a good one!

And if you look carefully at what I said I did disavowal some of the actions antifa indulges in by calling them domestic terrorists. Because I do not approve of such actions. However there are several fundamental differences between antifa and groups like The neo-nazis and the KKK. The most prevalent important one being the fact that groups like the Nazis and the KKK believe in a fascist ideology of oppressing other groups of people usually for arbitrary reasons. Antifa believe in a progressive ideology of removing fascist ideology from our society, and sometimes in the course of that they crossed lines they should not have. So do they sometimes do similar things when you take it out of context? Like inciting violence? Absolutely. And it's always wrong when they do those things. But the difference is but an Tifa is usually doing it for a morally upright reason even if they're doing the wrong thing, whereas the fascist groups they are fighting are doing the wrong thing for the wrong reason. Which is a very important distinction that Everyone likes to ignore. I'm not defending their violent tendencies they need to fucking stop inciting violence, but they do a lot more than just incite violence to fight these fascist groups where as fascist groups are just fascist assholes with no redeeming qualities whatsoever.

About the pedo thing I honestly don't know about that and I will have to do some research before I comment on it one way or another otherwise I would just be talking out of my ass.

Another quick little thing I want to mention because I feel like you kind of shifted the attention slightly away from the absolute most important thing that should be screamed from the heavens. Yes Charlottesville was awful because the person got hit by a car. Because there was violence and violence is bad. But violence was not the only bad thing that happened there and I still would argue that it's not the worst thing that happen either. Because again for the 100 trillionth time I have to say this and it's something I shouldn't have to say in 2018, Charlottesville with a literal torch-wielding mob of Nazis marching through an American Street chanting Nazi chants and the president along with a bunch of other people in power equivocate it and tried to give them a leg to stand on. Yes a person died. That's terrible please don't think that I'm minimizing that. But unfortunately people die all the time and I feel like everyone is using that active violence as a way to dismiss the fact that there was a goddamn nazi march in America in 2018.

And ask for the Nazi in Germany thing I understand and I don't know why you're specifically bringing this up I wasn't saying that all visuals of Nazis were illegal but it was illegal to represent their iconography. Such as for example when Nazi first try to walk around with armbands that are clearly designed after Nazi officer armbands. Those aren't historical relics that are acceptable in Germany those are Recreations of Nazi iconography and if you start trying to argue that the people wearing them we're trying to teach people about Nazis or that these people found some kind of Artistic integrity and wearing something in Germany representing the worst thing Germany's ever done then I think this conversation is a lost cause. Because that exception in the law is meant for there to be artistic Recreation of Nazi Concepts so as not to limit artistic freedom but again within reasonable limitations as in you shouldn't be doing it to promote and encourage Nazi ideology. So if you draw a picture of a furry character wearing an armband it's kind of disgusting and in bad taste but yeah sure you can get away with that. But having a bunch of people marching around the convention wearing Nazi armband is not expressing yourself artistically that's glorifying a toxic ideology

Please tell me when the last Nazi furry march accured where furry Nazis proudly proclaimed themselves as furries? Last time I checked the Nazis hate the furry community. You think that Nazis are going to actively support and tolerate a community mistakenly known for being sexually attracted animals? They'd sooner burn down the convention then actively participate in one. So its a pointless gesture.

Also got to love this line here. "If you are offended by someone saying that Nazis need to fuck off then you need to reevaluate why you identify yourself with Nazis." Don't like other's political beliefs pushed on you in a convention meant for anthropomorphic animals? You must identify with Nazis. You seem to have completely missed her reasoning for why she was uncomfortable with wearing the badge and why she wasn't a fan of this statement. The issue isn't the fact that they're against Nazis. I can guarantee she's against them too. It's what the people who are against Nazis tend to do. Where everyone and anyone who doesn't fall under a certain belief is automatically a Nazi. To where they will harass that person based on the crime of being accused of a Nazi.

"I mean when I hear someone saying fuck child molesters I don't get offended and identify with child molesters because I am not one."

No one is upset or offended when they hear fuck Nazis. Most will outright agree with that notion. Its when those people begin to harass others they think are Nazis or God forbid get violent.

I hope she hides your disgusting comments. This site is anything but conservative but let me tell you something: your party is coming to a swift decisive end. The side of history you stand on will determine your future for years to come. I'm a conservative and a furry with years of Christianity thanks to my father and his teachings. Furries were never exclusively for minorities who were being oppressed you dolt. Being a furry to me is the appreciation of anthropromophic animals and a sense of wonder. Before all the victim groups and hypocritical extremists. Before the dark times. I can only hope one day you learn to empathize with others on the basis of their merits and not by which victim group they belong to.

You do realize you are proving my point right?

First: what was disgusting about my comments? That i disavowed nazis?

Also are you really gonna talk about hypocritical extremists when you are literally sitting there saying the entire political party that you perceive i belong too is going to be completely and absolutely wiped out?

Like... your comment is so hypocritical i don't even know where to start.

you talk about learning to empathize with people literally in the same sentence you insult 'victim groups'. what victim groups? African americans that have dealt with systemic racism for almost a century? Homosexuals that have been oppressed and even to this day still have activists from YOUR CONSERVATIVE PARTY trying to say they are not equal citizens? What about the victims of horrible wars overseas? i assume that as a devout christian you railed against the Trump administration's policy of denying refugees from war torn countries right? You'd have to be some kind of person that needs to learn to empathize with others and have no current empathy to refuse to let in mostly women and children from wartorn nations who are desperately struggling to survive over some incredibly arbitrary and fictitious fear of terrorists sneaking into the country through the least effective means possible.

This is what I'm talking about. you clearly didn't even fully read what i had said, or you simply chose to wildly misinterpret it so that you would have a reason to be outraged because you think that just because society is becoming less accepting of assholes, racists and people who arbitrarily discriminate against others because god forbid you might have to take their feelings in to account around your own that everyone is crying about safe spaces and is playing the victim card. I clearly said that the furry community was originally all about just an appreciation for anthropomorphic animals but then over time became a haven for minorities being oppressed or bullied, and never did i use the word exclusively. i blatantly implied that a culture of open acceptance had been adopted by the community.

you are doing more harm than good to your own political beliefs right now by lashing out in this wildly uninformed and aggressive manner and doing a disservice to conservatives and Christians alike. it is people like you that just scream you are absolutely right with no wiggle room and completely ignore both the words, thoughts and feelings of people around you that directly lead to so many people in younger generations becoming more skeptical and wary of religious institutions and establishment politics. I work with real Christians every day, the company i work for almost exclusively hires seminary students working towards their pastorship and every single one of them would be disgusted by the way you have portrayed yourself and represented Christianity in your comment.

so please before you go embarrassing yourself and everyone you pretend to represent please actually educate yourself both on what is actually being discussed and your own viewpoints because you're doing nothing but hurting your own points right now.

You are a walking contradiction and a virus upon the earth. I will battle anyone with your views and I hope and pray you never obtain political power again.

... Wow, you are not a good person. LOL at thinking this kind of shitty attitude is on the good-side.

It'd be hypocrisy for her to hide discourse, though. After all, half her journal is about free speech, right?

You tell me should racists like you have a voice on this platform?

The problem is that anyone right of the far left gets deemed a Nazi, or alt-right sympathizer.. even if said person is still left leaning. You disagree with the far left's views on something.. something which the Nazis also disagree with naturally.. guess what, you get lumped into that same pool along with them.
It's downright moronic, and outright terrible. And that part of it isn't only furries. It's disgusting.

And I'm someone who gets classified as a 'liberal leftist' on that political compass thing.

Situations like this are the reason why I typically stay to myself when it comes to the furry community nowadays. I'm deeply scared that something like what happened to you and Jason would happen to me if I said something that people don't like, or if I got too outspoken against certain subjects. It's sad, because one of the reasons I joined the furry community in the first place was because of how nice most furries are. I'm so sorry you had to go through this, and I wish both you and Jason the best.

I honestly am second guessing if I should associate myself with the fandom if this is the reality of it.

Well, Sir, you lost me at "Antifa"...….
Never heard ANYONE who was not a right wing partisan talk about 'em. They aren't even a major ;political force- just a favorite target of the alt.fur/alt/right crowd.
The fandom hasn't changed. Some of the people in it have. To join a group that was known for it's Liberal leanings, and decry lack of acceptance, when you don't share those values is well, odd. I find the fandom incredibly welcoming- as long as you don't try to impose your views on others.
For the record, I'm an old, straight white guy, and I have no problems being accepted by my peers. I support the police, and I believe that black lives...and ALL lives....matter.
So, maybe if you stuck to art, and things furry, or got off the net, and got out in the fandom you'd see things differently. You just might want to stop sprinkling your conversations with buzz words distributed by the ultra right.
Believe what you wish, but there are things that are, and should remain private thoughts.
At least if you want to co exist peacefully.

Antifa isn't even a thing. It's a boogeyman to them, like the deep state, pizzagate, or bengazi. They do this pathetic little thing called PROJECTION where they accuse their opponents of the things they do. It's their one and only defense mechanism against taking responsibility for themselves.

They say antifa are domestic terrorists, but how many people have right-wingers killed in mass shootings recently?
They say there's a deep state conspiracy to control the government, but who was it that colluded with a foreign country?
They say democrats are running a pedophile ring in the basement of a pizza shop that doesn't have a basement, then give 650,000 votes to roy moore.
They say kavenaugh is innocent after ford said under oath that he assaulted her, then say bill clinton is guilty after juanita broderick said under oath that he DIDN'T assault her.
They still scream "LOCK HER UP" even after hillary was investigated BY REPUBLICANS for a total of 9.5 years, but cry "FAKE NEWS" when republicans have 30+ indictments against the trump administration in less than a year and a half.
They throw a temper tantrum about 4 people in bengazi, while ignoring the 60 people bush got killed in the same circumstances.
They throw a hissy fit for 3,000 personal emails, but don't mind the 100,000 withheld kavenaugh records, trump's tax returns, or the dozens of unsecured phones and servers in the current administration.
They say liberals are attacking free speech, but their king wants to make it illegal to report anything bad about him.
They say mexico is sending rapists, but christianity has sent even more.

They say the left is violent and supports censorship, I'll give you one guess who is actually violent and supports censorship.

his/her point was that things get political around you only if you make things political around you. While you have fun and draw furries nothing of that gets in the way.

Excuse me did you just say Benghazi is just a boogeyman? What kind of vile ignorant fuck are you? FA has been infected with this SJW virus long before Trump was elected.

Democrats claim to represent minorities/LGBT/womens rights but they don't want to hear from Bill Clinton's rape victims. They protested and "resisted" when J Edgar Hoover sent in federal troops into public schools to allow blacks to integrate into white schools. Your party embraces the racists, and I refuse to allow your comments to go unchallenged. Where was your outrage when Obama caged illegal immigrant children in cages back in 2014? You are a vile disgusting person and I hope one day you'll get exactly what you deserve in life.

I was going to comment to them about some of their points and show evidence that refuted them, only to find that this person that I've never previously seen or spoken to has me blocked.

BUT THE RIGHT WINGERS ARE THE REAL CENSORS YOU GUYS!

The hypocrisy is hilarious. I can't take their opinions seriously if they expect to vent their viewpoints far and wide without any dissenting opinion allowed.

Agreed

Truth bomb!

You are literally proving my point that people like yourself immediately slap "alt-right" on anyone you don't agree with. GG

You call people triggered snowflakes.

That's just as bad. Fuck's sake.

oh boo hoo. Cry s'more.

I'd argue that flat out labeling someone as alt-right, especially when they're not, is worse than calling someone a triggered snowflake.. whether they are or not.
But that's just me.

No, it's not just you.

Being called a triggered snowflake or an SJW might hurt your feelings for 2 seconds before ignoring it or leaving a nasty comment and/or blocking the person, but it won't really have much more impact than that.

Being called alt-right can get you banned from furaffinity and other sites and cause friends and randoms to disown you or distance themselves to avoid being labeled alt-right/nazi themselves by the mob just for talking to you. It also leads to a (usually) months long harassment campaign to get you kicked out of the fandom and out of any groups you may be involved in within it including conventions, where you may be physically assaulted by people if you are even allowed to go.

All based on the *accusation* of being alt-right. Accusations are taken as proof in this fandom so you are guilty until proven innocent.

The difference is, to quote Gene Leonhardt, "Consequences will never be the same" for the two sides.

Fuck right off with your pro antifa garbage. Not only are you ignorant of the organizations base roots and the character of the man who funds them, you are being used by the Left as a useful tool only to be discarded once you place the Democrat candidates in power. Your sad devotion to those monsters make me want to vomit. It's one thing to see the crazies on YT, quite another to see them infiltrate FA with your poison, especially attacking respected artist in the community.

"The character of the man who funds them"? Must be that evil Soros man, right?

LOL at your profile espousing a hate for "toxic ideology" when you're espousing toxic ideologies right here.

You are literally the party that fought to keep the schools segregated you have no credibility with me or the black community.

Look up a guy named tim pool. Actively anti conservative, quite liberal, Has mentioned Antifa quite a bit, because Antifa makes his side look bad because of the crap they do. Because he's a left leaning liberal.

I completely agree with you here. I took like a two year long hiatus, where I didn't even log onto FA a single time. When I came back, I felt as though everything had a very different feel to it. I won't even step on Twitter, nothing good really seems to come of it. Was wondering though if their are art sites that are more dedicated to art than the constant fighting back and forth between everyone...

All this definitely makes me nervous to go to my very first con (Vancoufur) here in a few months. I don't really know anybody well in the community, so I'll probably spend the time keeping to myself lol

I don't disagree. But I've always been here for the porn, community has never been a priority. It's always been the porn and then some friends.

wow..

Under my rock I'm safe from all that drama while I draw dicks and tits for everyone.

Sadly this issue isn't isolated to the furry fandom alone. This an an issue facing society as a whole right now. Everything is being polarized in literally every aspect of life. The key issue here is social media as a whole which magnify this and make it seem like an even larger, more common thread everywhere. I'm not sure what the answer to this polarization is, I don't think anyone really does.

Agreed!

Political correctness and identity politics have been creeping in at the fandom for over a decade, but only now recently with the election of Trump in 2016 made people show their true colours of how they treat people whom they disagree with, especially politically.

Thing is, the "fandom" isn't something you can really connect with, as the fandom itself is just a decentralized definition with no defining characters/canon making it possible to connect with. The fandom is made up of individuals, and should be taken as such. People however are fully possible to connect with, and it's people who are in this fandom. It's people you interact with. And it's people behaving like utter shit.

What is going on in the fandom is pretty much just a reflection of what is going on in the current political climate, especially State-wise. I could write a whole novel about it, but I don't really have much if any time for much anymore, especially not petty politics and some of the idiots who quite frankly are starting to look like zealots.

I've been privy to this shit in a lot of communities already... I even got someone trying to blackmail me by doxing me (joke was on them because my home city was on my social networking at the time), so I understand your pain here. I've been noticing this shit in the furry fandom recently too, and it's frankly disgusting! people ask why I left online fandoms like Homestuck, MLP, MCU, Doctor Who, etc. and why I left sites like tumblr and twitter and facebook (until recently because I stupidly need it for my volunteer work). This shit is exactly why! I don't support any movement that is far left or right, we need balance, we need acceptance, we need love, NOT extreme politics and measures to ensure you take out your opposition, NOT bullying and outright violence (physical, mental, verbal, emotional, or any other kind), and DEFINITELY NOT hate

That's not really a furry fandom thing. The Progressive religion has embedded itself in society as a whole.

Since I was little I've found myself attracted to this fandom in some way or form, what once started out as a place of acceptance has gained a voice of prejudice that likes to attack and fight against foes that simply don't conform to their personal ideals. These groups have accepted people and just as quickly stabbed them in the back if it means an inkling of drama can be birthed to spread their message.

I don't think I'll ever consider myself a non-furry, but as I've put myself away from the worlds where hate brews like a storm off the coast I still see most of the good in this fandom. It saddens me to see that someone such as yourself who I've had nothing but the best wishes for faces these sorts of problems on what sounds like a daily basis. I hope that on your journeys of community exploration I get to continue seeing your works and whatever other things you choose to discuss or share over your other sites like youtube.

Find your privacy and hold onto what makes you you.

Cheers for the shared solace, know that YOU aren't alone.

oh boy, you hit the nail right on the head. I know exactly what your talking about. I dont participate in furry groups that much anymore because just the people are in this weird sense of oh you have to be popular, or you have to fit within these certain standards and I just honestly sit on the sidelines now. I wish it was back to the way it use to be where everyone in the community was so loving and friendly.

I consider myself furry in the same way I don't consider myself human. See, furries, to me, are merely folk who like a unique fandom. Nothing more, nothing less. I'm furry in the same way I don't like being called human because being human nowadays means being a terrible thing. Everytime I hear "X is only human" or something to that effect, it's for a horrible reason, and I grew to detest the title because I strive to be everything it's not. I may be a cunt at times, I won't lie, and I'm far from normal, but I keep to myself and actually have a more good moral alignment than most think.

I've not seen what you have, I've only seen anti-furs, but these people? They are NOT furries. They're not what this fandom is about, not what we mean, not who we are. Furries, the ones I've seen, the communities, are full of so many wonderfully fucked up people. Fat, thin, tall, short, vanilla or kinked right the fuck up, everyone is loved, this fandom is supposed to be a haven to those who don't feel comfortable elsewhere. Be it around others, in their own skin, or whatever else. This fandom is not one of hate, not one seeking trouble or starting these stupid fucking fights (who the fuck is pro-pedo!?). We're supposed to be about acceptance, comfort, being one big fluffy (admittedly sometimes incestous) family.

You may feel like the fandom is drifting away from you, but you're wrong. You're still a furry, but not a fake one who comes for the title and stays to make drama. There's still good people, good furs, out there. I've seen them. If I could, I'd unite them just to change your mind and give you hope for the fandom. But I can't sadly, I'm an observer, not a leader.

Point is, don't give up on the fandom. You may be surrounded by hate, injustice, all kinds of nasty shit, but I promise you good furs still exist in the bucket loads. The joy, the love, the unity, we're all still here. All still one fucked up family of misfits. Don't give up on us, m'kay? ^^ Toxins don't last forever!

Social justice killed this website years ago, and it will only bring more extreme ideologues with it, as new generations of young people enter the "fandom". To you I say good luck, thank you for validating other people's suspicion that our civilization is in dire need of a philosophical/moral awakening. When I read into your statements I know there are things you are being careful with how its phrased. You have my support and you will be sorely missed here on FA along with Jason.

Hate is like wildfire...

It doesn't take much before it gets out of control.

Also, i don't think those morons know what a Nazi actually is...

I feel ya. I joined the fandom for the art and kindness, even the lovely suits I've seen cosplayers wear. Lately though when ever I'd share a story I wrote or a piece of art I (tried) to draw, I'd be met with more than a few people saying things like "It's ok, but I think you should keep it to yourself until it's actually good". I remember the fandom when people would say encouraging things, or at the very least if they had harsh thoughts about someone's work, bite their tongue and smile for the artist.

I have to say I do think that this is just a tough time for the fur fandom though, I think it's because so many people these days are trying to aspire to being better, they forget that being better doesn't mean they have to be better than other people. It's become more a competition on opinion and works of art now, and I think that'll be a thing that passes soon.... I hope.

I feel like identifying as a 'furry' means you have a fursona and like furry art.... you're still a furry even if you leave Furaffinity, or the 'community'.
But everyone has different definitions of what furry means i suppose.

Agreed ^

I remember those ribbons They were black if I recall

Did not know what to make of it when someone handed me it at the last big con I was at

I try not to think about the things you pointed out

Thinking about it depresses me

I did not join the fandom to deal with that real life nonsense this suppose to be a safe place for me to escape and forget about my problems But of course others have to drag the dirt from outside with them on there feet

Peeps need to learn to wipe there feet at the door and not drag that crap inside the house

this makes sense to me as a person that found the fandom a few years and very nervous about getting to know anyone. I now avoid anyone that mixes fandoms and politics out of fear of being bullied

Im not going to get too caught up in thinking i should distance my self from the furry fandom because welp, its not better with non furs, gaming, certain tv and movie shows, and even music. =~= somethings wrong and it needs to be stopped in all things. we suppose to have fun enjoy our selves, not say who's right or wrong or even worse what happened in Jacksonville.
but as for you and others i hope you're able to enjoy what you feel like you should do

It's disappointing to hear that a community built around people with creative talent, imagination and multiple backgrounds cannot just put aside differences to do what they love.

But, y'know, its not unexpected. No matter what community you go to, there are going to be people with stiff minds, large cliques behind them, and vitriol dripping from their jaws.

I'm more a watcher of FA than a participant, but I'd like to mention that the political scene has changed. And with it, people have changed. What you are seeing is not a breakdown of the furry community, it is a breakdown and exacerbation of people that have forgotten it is possible to disagree with someone and still respect their right to being treated like a person. It likely lurks under the surface of other fandoms as well.

And with that, be careful, and I wish you luck in turning your attention elsewhere. look for sane people to hang with, wherever you go. They don't necessarily have to agree with you, but they should be rational enough to know when to put aside viewpoints instead of beating people over the head with them.

And to those that would wish death on people because they don't think the way you do but are otherwise harmless, you are just as bad as the people who actively hate and work against you for no other reason than because they think you're wrong and deserve to suffer for it. Humans are gonna human, but frankly humaning should be better than this.

I almost never respond to these, and I'm sure your a bit to busy to read all of these comments.
I Just like to say I totally agree with you. At one time I could say that furs were very tolerant and even listened to opposing view points. But as time moved forward...All that became a means to an end. And that end was usually sexual.

I believe most humor comes from a dark place, to bring light to subjects that otherwise get ignored.
This is the main reason that even small children will never laugh at the chicken crossing the road "Joke".
But since most furries live online through web browsers and forums, they can never get subtlety, sarcasm or raw emotion because saying LOL and TYPING IN ALL CAPS, can only go so far.

The online furrie community is so far up its own asshole, I don't think it can ever be anything more then a fandom who spanks it to anthro guys.

And thats another point. In the past would have said cat girls, but I believe that at least 70% of furs are gay/bi males.
Look at the furry dating sites. 80% guys looking for guys, 15% females looking for friends. 4.998% MtF looking for anything and .002 Females looking for males.

What is there to like about this community?

Besides the art, or Rather porn. That's it.
And I can also say, While I'm not an artist, I don't need to be Picasso to know good and great art when I see it.
Subject matter aside. The execution and finished pieces that many people on this site and others create show real skill and talent. That is in it self a real treasure.

I don't even understand how these people can live with themselves. I mean, they realize normal society views furries as trash, right? That they think you're into bestiality? And you're going to turn around and try and do that to a subsection of furries - mischaracterize them - while trying to pretend you're on a moral high ground? Like seriously, what the hell is wrong with you?

Twitter is part of the problem. When you said furry twitter has no value, you were close - Twitter has no value at this point. It's idiots screaming at each other endlessly. And it lets you curate what you think are an audience of people who, after you remove all diseenting opinions, only agree with you, making it seem like you're always right. It's beyond pathetic.

I'd recommend reading https://inkbunny.net/s/1711946
I think it brings up some points related to this.

I joined this fandom a few years ago, think I could count it as back in 2013 for joining. I've not been super active with everything in the fandom, but since about 2015-2016, I have noticed a concerning change in the circles I travel in with this community. You have my sympathy, Kabier, I've dealt with a few of those things you've described yourself, but nowhere near what you've gone through. You are an exceptionally strong individual to go through all of that and still carry on. I keep hoping that every day I wake up and we all come to our senses on things, but its usually just more of the same. Seeing how I'm not the only one, reading this journal, and seeing the overall responses, it does give me hope that the ones I care about and the community as a whole can get out of this mess in one piece. Stay strong everyone, keep your wits about you, and don't let anyone tell you what to think. There's enough sheeple out there, be sure to be one of the free thinkers!

http://puu.sh/BFXez/36a7d969d1.jpg

You're preaching to the choir
SJWs, Liberals and Extremists have Majority of the media.
That's why AntiFa and the BLM aren't listed in the hate groups, they're a part of the narrative they're pushing.
I also found it ironic that not long ago people were jumping up and down about Net Neutrality and it's now being used to oppress, attack and silence opposing thought or politics.

What we're bearing witness to is the resurfacing of Fascism, but by the very people who claim to be against said affiliation.

No due process.
No freedom of speech.
Liberties are for the privileged.

Ethnic and racial targeting.
Open violence at rallies.

All coming from one political spectrum while said spectrum blames the other for everything they do.

Which has me quoting Joseph Goebbels like a broken record.
"Blame others of that which you are guilty of"

And I catch flak because of the truth in it.

Not only that, but I was called a Nazi.
Submitted a ticket.
A month to process and nothing even happened.
Selective CoC and ToS at its finest.
Hell, I might get banned just for posting this.

For all intents and purposes, i could be banned too if i wrote journals with my PoV, because my italian PoV is not the american left PoV.