Please don’t confuse thinking joining UAW is bad with thinking unionizing is bad. It’s like assuming you hate food because you don’t enjoy broccoli.
An employer thinks unions are okay until his employees start unionizing. Definitely didn't see that one coming.
Not taking his word. I just know that California has very strict rules on unions and safety regulations. People on here are saying there is all this abuse going on and the evidence is clear yet there has been no crackdown on them by California. Why is that if it is so obvious? No one can be certain UAW will act against their interests. If Tesla is successful though then the legacy automakers and Detroit will lose a lot of jobs. Can't really see them fighting for Tesla. I doubt the other workers would take any sort of coordinated action with Tesla. At this point there barely in the same industry.
Yeah? I saw Elon at a grocery store in LA yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything. He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?” I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying. The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter. When she took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word but Elon Musk would definitely know better than me I suppose. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly. He even threw the rapper to one of the bars out the window of his Tesla as he drove off.
To add to this they also have better reviews on Glassdoor than GM. Seems unlikely to happen if they are much worse.
Glassdoor isn't something that many workers use and allows anonymity. If social media agents have been hired as some have claimed these reviews could be fraudulent and bad reviews could possibly be removed.
The only claim against UAW is from Elon himself who seems to blame it for the downfall of the Detroit-based automakers without really substantiating his claims. And what does it matter that California has stringent laws? Tesla employees are still more likely to be injured than the industry average, despite Elon's claims to the contrary. The industry average is largely made up of UAW members as well so obviously the union can help lower injury rates by calling on Tesla to stop overworking their employees. Are you seriously suggesting that UAW is in the pockets of big combustible auto? That is again contrary to what Elon says, where he blames them for bankrupting the big 3.
In the official numbers Tesla is on par with the other automakers in safety. What you are saying is that they are faking their numbers. I'm saying it would be hard to fake numbers in California and if they were there would be a crackdown. Elon Musk claims that they abondoned the California factory in favor of their Detroit based factories. It is really not that unlikely that they would act in favor of whoever makes up the majority. Which definitely would not be Tesla. Also go Google UAW, they are currently undergoing a federal investigation for corruption and their vice president just had their home raided. It's not just Elon making claims against them.
Here's Tesla's rebuttal to the Reveal article: https://www.tesla.com/blog/not-so-revealing-story There are multiple damning articles about the UAW with a simple google search of UAW and NUMMI. Here are a few. https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2010/02/numm-f06.html http://laborpains.org/2018/03/30/nummi-anniversary-puts-spotlight-on-uaw-woes/ http://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/nummi-workers-upset-uaw/ This American Life also did a whole episode on the UAW and NUMMI, which is eye opening: https://www.thisamericanlife.org/403/nummi The idea that unions are automatically good is flawed today. The reality is union membership has been decreasing because most employers have the proper safety checks, healthcare, and their employees well being in mind from the get go. There's little need for a middle man and the UAW knows this, which is why they've been scrambling to unionize any major car factory for the past few years.
So if this was not elon Musk but somebody else. And you would read the tweets again. Is everybody still salty?
I'm too stupid to understand why what he said was bad or wrong. I think some others in here are the same but like to act like they know what's what and all that. If he sat down and had a conversation with someone about this I'm sure it'd come across better than he presents himself on Twitter.
So you don't understand why what he said was wrong and stupid, but you still feel that he's probably right on the issue and just was misunderstood? That's an interesting take, but I guess it speaks about the fact that your belief in the man, at least in this instance, is not really rooted in facts.
Where did I say he's probably right or that I believe in him and he's misunderstood? Your powers of assumption could take us to Mars before he does.
"If he sat down and had a conversation with someone about this I'm sure it'd come across better than he presents himself on Twitter". Which is an interesting thing to say, if you are, in fact, don't understand what wrong with what he said on Twitter.
What I said is true of just about every person who uses Twitter to discuss things that have any semblance of nuance.
Oh so you were just making a general comment about the nature of discourse on twitter, unrelated to Elon Musk? Cool, and FWIW, I generally tend to agree that twitter is trash.
Does somebody actually believe this? Is there anyone on this thread that actually is in a workplace as described on this fantasy?
I've seen more than one Twitter tirade lead to a podcast where the person came across much more coherent and convincing than I would have initially assumed they were capable of, and seeing this just reminded me of that. I have no idea if he'd come across better or not, just know I've had my mind changed in the past after assuming the worst of someone based on how they used Twitter.
I dated a girl who was crazy about him. She read the Elon Musk articles on Wait But Why and I guess she bought into the hype. I mean, on a surface level he seems passionate and has some interesting ideas on how to radically progress our technology, but on the other hand he's a fuck and lots of his ideas are unrealistic.
1st, since the post you're referencing is talking about me you could as well mention me so I could answer instead of being a coward and avoid involving me directly. Rest assured, I'm not a 'paid shill', and I don't see how I should justify the fact that I like something you don't, hence I supposedly can't be in good faith... You're just acting like irrational conspiracy theorists, scrutinizing and condemning the fact that I dare post about things I like and research in-depth more than other topics. Attacking the people instead of providing facts and arguments. There's a cult here on ERA, a cult of irrationality, conspiracy and ignorance and it's the anti-musk cult. If you want to know why I comment a lot on these topics, it's really simple: I'm a lurker here and one of the things that pushes me to intervene is when a topic becomes an anti musk circle jerk based on absolutely nothing factual. It's clearly a lost cause, and reality will speak for itself, but I'm human and no ones likes it when something they like and know about deeply gets unfairly trash talked with ignorance and irrationality. This is what's happening a lot with Elon and his companies. So yeah, rest assured I'll continue being 'a paid shill' and 'defending a billionaire' when I want to. Please leave me alone and argue with arguments instead of post-history bullying me. Cheers.
Also one more thing: the whole 'Tesla hires people to sway opinions on the internet' is beyond silly, it's the essence on how wrong many people on this forum are on Tesla and anything musk by buying into a ignorant narrative that has no foundations in reality. If you had even a little bit of knowledge about what you're talking about you would know that those PR jobs, which btw aren't a practice exclusive to Telsa, are intended to scout Tesla forums and people's queries on social media to offer them customer support and report user discovered issues to the management... Turning that into 'Tesla hires people to sway opinions on the internet' is laughable, dishonest and well... good for you if you buy into this.
sounds exactly like what a paid shill would say there is no anti-musk cult here, only the cult that sees light shine from every orifice and will gladly eat a plate of shit if dear leader said to. astroturfing is a real thing dude. you know that right? muskrat because his a disgusting capitalist rat.
if he were an anthropomorphic character in an animal cartoon would he be Elon Musk-Ox, or Elon Muskrat?
Hilarious you think it’s an actual argument about anything, or anything remotely serious in reply to what also isn’t a serious actual question But you do you.
Yeah ok. You prove my point that people here aren't even worth discussing with. Tesla doesn't need 'astroturfing', and you have no evidence to back your accusations of them doing it. That Job listing posted on the other thread isn't for 'astroturfing' and anyone that follows Tesla knows how proactive they are on forums and social media and how they have dedicated personnel to address user issues. The intent is exactly that: to address and identity user issues, not to post misinformation. You don't have anything to support what you say, thus you're just mounting conspiracies and baseless propaganda.
Well I mean you clearly worship him. You have to know that this billionaire worship isn’t healthy or rational right?
Clearly! I really couldn’t ask for a better way to prove my point. This kind of irrationality is par for the course with you folks. Every time.
What irrationality? The blind worship of a capitalist is more irrational than anything I’ve ever said.
There's nothing you can do, they're exactly what they project on others: irrational followers of a cult that see no value in facts and reality. It's a lost cause. Because people actually like their products. Also it's not just a matter of not 'needing' it, but mostly a matter of avoiding this kind of practices. They don't even advertise on TV/magazines...
It’s amazingly consistent. Anyone rejecting or questioning any portion of any criticism leveled toward Musk or his companies is immediately dismissed because clearly (clearly!) they worship at his alter and lol what a weirdo so we can ignore you and everything you say. Oh and if they accidentally let it slip that they simply hate capitalism and must necessarily hate anyone working within that system regardless of whether the arguments are good or not it’ll just be a joke and why so serious??
Doesn't matter if you believe it or not, it's a fact. Unions are becoming less relevant over time. https://www.npr.org/sections/money/...ears-of-shrinking-union-membership-in-one-map
the generation that their products (especially the model 3) are aimed at right now are the tech savvy kind of people who dont read magazines (lol who the fuck still buys magazines) or watches/has tv to see commercials. easier and cheaper to buy online ads/astroturf on social media and get people caught up in the hype to do your work for you than normal ad buys. and if you think they don't do any of that then I have a bridge in london to sell you.
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