This morning at 6:30am, there was a knock on the door. I was just about to start pouring Toast's second cup of coffee before sending him off to work. I thought it was odd that someone would be knocking on the door that early. I figured it was DJ Ear or maybe maintenance or something. So I open the front door and at least 6 FBI agents pointed Glocks in my face! They yelled that they had a federal search warrant and dragged me and Toast out of the house, handcuffed us and then went in to get our other two roommates.
This was an FBI raid! There were about a dozen FBI and a couple of state police and Homeland Security agents! After searching the house for weapons (???) they brought us back in and questioned us for nearly three hours.
Get this... they thought RGS was a child porn studio! They'd apparently been watching the house for quite a while and finally obtained a federal search warrant to bust in and take down our child porn manufacturing studio! :>
Well, they looked at all the contents of the computers we have. Then just kind of went, "Oh.... have a nice day!" ...and out they went without another word.
They didn't trash the house and they were as polite as I suppose they could be. But one thing they did take was one of each copy of my DVDs. Hope you enjoy them, fuckers!
Naw, the FBI wouldn't arrange an all out raid on someone's place just based on a false phone call. Honestly, the best I can figure is that someone in our apartment complex has been breaking into our wireless router and downloading child porn.
With a few Linux penetration testing tools, trust me, it's trivial to sniff out someone's MAC address. And, setting your router to non-broadcast is about as useless thanks to Kismet.
That's why one should not think, that there is a single thing, that makes WiFi secure.
Security is always made up of layers, each function adds another layer an attacker has to go through.
Therefore use everything the router offers.
Luckily, kiddie porn collectors usually aren't the brightest knives in the drawer.
Two examples: One was arrested after making his stash visible on a public hotel network while staying there,
hotel employees found out and called the cops.
Another one was caught while enjoying the stuff while sitting in a public cafe. Other guests called the cops.
Oh, and remember to turn OFF WPS (WiFi Protected Setup). It's a big security hole in most routers, Especially on 'WiFi Certified' units. Use a long WPA2-Key instead. (WPA2-AES)
More here: http://sviehb.wordpress.com/2011/12.....vulnerability/
Well, it actually did happen. We'll be talking more about it on the next 2 Sense. I'll show off the warrant. :) Our router IS password protected, but that doesn't stop people from breaking in if they know how.
Brute force hacking is one way. The power available in the new GPUs is truly astounding and they're being pressed into service for trying all combinations of passwords to find a match to the hash. The other technique is to use a Rainbow Table, a precompiled list of passwords and their hashes. In this case, the hacker scans the table for a hash that matches the hashed password. It doesn't even have to be the right password: just so long as it generates the same hash code. Another method, of course, is user generated through the use of weak pre-shared keys, which should be a minimum of 25 random characters.
So all it really amounts to is bruting, which the use of rainbow tables is mathematically equivalent to. And weak keys aren't another method - just something that makes bruting easier.
I should have been more clear. Not exactly "SWATting" in your case, since it involved a different agency, but sounds like the same sort of scenario with someone reporting you for something you didn't do. The question is, in whose cornflakes did you take a whiz in order to garner such an attack? Or, perhaps, it's a rabid fan who wanted you for himself and is jealous of your engagement to Toast? Then again, it could have been an attempt to force you out to get rid of that vegan cooking smell. The mind reels...
Actually yes, they might, if the person kept feeding them false information.
A furry acquaintance of mine actually had his roommate feed the FBI lots of false information claiming he had child porn on his computer (based solely on the fact he's a babyfur). They tapped the ISP feed and couldn't really find anything, so the roomie said he'd had evidence that the guy had fucked his underage cousin. That's when they actually showed up with warrants, seized and searched the computer, and were actively joking about not finding anything, making remarks like "I don't know Joe, does that cartoon fox look underage to you?" That's when they turned on the roommate, who kept changing his story, and he'd cost the FBI several thousands of bucks all to serve a personal vendetta and "troll" a babyfur. Some people...
one good reason why i ban ALL wireless connections at my place... i dont fancy dealing with the french militairy police as they can really be a bunch of *bip*
Might I suggest setting the wifi password to a random hash? (ie: 9591b5f2e5d0583db9e5d75c6853d6ac) Software like KeePass makes this super easy, and you can share the database file, so you don't have to read it off to your roommates. I actually do this for all my passwords, online and offline. Since you can load the whole program onto a flash drive (if need be), I'm not really that concerned about losing my passwords.
a friend of mine went through the exact same thing. told me that it took him a while to get his stuff working again after what the fbi did and that it made him fell very insecure.
those bastards!
also side note, was nice meeting you briefly at AC, really late, but whatever : D hope you have a nice day with no more forced entry into your house
OMG! I'm sorry, but that is just funny to picture in my head, watching that happen and then them walking off with some of your DVDs like that was their goal in the first place.
Hmmm... I wonder if it was the powdered baby show of 2 Sense that got their attention? ...Well never know... the FBI fuckers.
Secret furry fans of yours within Homeland Security and FBI aye? I'm sure they'll enjoy your DVDs for sure, well after they finished going "The fuck....?" haha.
In Canada we ride to work on Moose, live in Iglu's, cut firewood with out bare hands, drink TimHortons all day, and cross-country ski through the streets of our Downtown core. Very eventful daily life.
It's more of an issue of freedom of speech than anything. You said "that kind of thing never happens here in Canada" (namely implying your police don't abuse authority or trample people's rights) and I countered that. Here in the U.S. the thinking is that freedom isn't real if it doesn't apply to everyone, even shitheads like Fred Phelps and the KKK, because the minute you censor them you open the door to censor ANY expression that's unpopular.
While you do have a point - our RCMP do occasionally abuse authority and trump people's rights - it's actually been my opinion that in Canada, we don't have "free Speech". What we have is the right to say what we wish until it threatens others or could cause/lead to injury of other people, or incites hate. And then we'll mostly be all over a person for that.
That's why Fred Phelps et Al can't step a foot into Canada, they'd be arrested on the spot and probably why his son now lives in Canada since he can be free of his old man for good. And there's a regional story from some years back about the KKK trying to set up shop in a town in my area, but they were kicked out when the residents heard they were gonna try to show up.
We don't censor unpopular opinions - they're still expressed and quite often - but we will deal with speech that incites hate or violence.
And honestly that's just the way I like it.
That said, 2, WTF dude? Did they ask for an autograph? Cause if not then that was just rude all around. :P
At least you flat out admit there's no freedom of speech in Canada. That took some cajones.
As for the "hate speech" laws that goes directly to my point. The people jailed for denying the Holocaust claim they're being oppressed by the government for having beliefs. And guess what? They are! Jailed for years, even decades at a time for having a bullshit opinion. That's only making them into martyrs for their cause. It's also why Neo-Nazism is "fashionable" among teenagers in Germany. Outlawing things makes them cool.
Here they're laughed at, treated with disdain, certainly WATCHED by the government, but otherwise ignored by the general populace, and I think that's a better approach. Do they occasionally incite violence and hateful behavior? Sure. But authorities deal with that if/when it happens, we don't censor people in the first place. Freedom of speech includes freedom not to listen.
Believe me I feel filthy even defending these people's rights, but that's because I believe in the 1st amendment and what it was intended to protect. Not too long ago the very things that started this country (namely, the Age of Reason, rationalism, etc.) would've been considered radical thinking. The passionate speeches of charismatic leaders like Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and John Lennon were considered riotous, inciting violence, etc. and even the U.S. government scrambled to find an excuse to jail or even deport Lennon or kill MLK. If someone like MLK had been in Canada, by your own logic, I'm sure he'd be jailed for that.
To sum up my whole "argument" (I really was humbly debating but if you want to degrade it to that, fine) I quote Voltaire "I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend, to the death, your right to say it."
I don't consider limiting freedom a warped idea, and I'm sorry you feel that way, and believe that it's at all reasonable to limit freedom like that. "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably." The first time any man's freedom is trodden on we're all damaged.
You can just go ahead and forcefully insert your first amendment rights up your ass; because when the white supremacists, that you didn't lock away, come knocking on your door, that's sure as hell what they'll be doing.
You don't know much about living in Canada - We have total freedom of speech, we just don't tolerate ignorance or hate. And, not to speak on behalf of my entire country, but we're certainly not fooled by the veil that is cast over your country and labeled "freedom"
Quite likely both Lennon and MLK would have been arrested...
Except the fact that I think they would have been allowed to speak more-so.
See, we're a weird place up here. Even if we do limit speech, the hated stuff still gets said, sometimes very publicly. Once said you can't take it back, but by that time your career is usually ruined. The RCMP will investigate you and if you're not a threat, they'll just keep you on a watch list. You might have court, fees, but generally you're not put in jail for hate speech.
So I think, if MLK or Lennon were to have made their speeches like they did, as much as it did incite violence, they were also about freedoms and liberty for all, which is different from denying a provable thing (Holocaust) happened, or saying "These people should die because they're ______".
Totally different situations, and they'd be handled totally different.
Yes, I agree with this! Let us all note, that I have never heard of someone being arrested for denying the holocaust. Sure, it may be deemed "illegal" that doesn't mean it's enforced. It will however, be enforced if you start openly spreading hate and what not.
Wow, ad hominems, holy shit. And I'm the one being a dick here? You're clearly beyond intelligent debate now. So you know what? I'll use the abusive language too, since you decided to take a nice, logical, intelligent debate and devolve it to a flamewar, fucking up 2's journal with this strawman fallacy bullshit. And here I thought Canadians pride themselves on politeness?
I'm not fooled by the punishment of "thoughtcrime" you call freedom. Read 1984 by George Orwell and tell me again how it's okay to legislate morality, how people feel about one another, or what they think of things.
As for white supremacists, I live in the South, asshole, I've had KKK try to set up shop at my fucking high school. Guess what? We told them to get fucked, and they still stood outside handing out literature. That is, unfortunately, their right, and I would personally kick the ass of any cop that told them or me or anyone that they're not allowed to fucking hate someone. CRIMINALIZING PERSONAL OPINION is fascism.
Oh wow, a list too. Too bad this list missed the guy in Canada a few years back, might've helped my case.
Feb. 27, 1998 Roger Garaudy France imprisonment (suspended), ₣240,000 fine[54]
Jul. 21, 1998 Jürgen Graf Switzerland 15 months imprisonment (fled Switzerland to avoid sentence)[55]
Jul. 21, 1998 Gerhard Förster Switzerland 12 months imprisonment, disgorgement[56]
May 27, 1999 Jean Plantin France 6 months imprisonment (suspended), fine, damages[57]
Apr. 11, 2000 Gaston-Armand Amaudruz Switzerland 1 year imprisonment, damages[58]
Feb. 20, 2006 David Irving Austria 1 year imprisonment[59]
Mar. 15, 2006 Germar Rudolf Germany 2½ years imprisonment[60]
Oct. 3, 2006 Robert Faurisson France €7,500 fine, 3 months probation[61]
Feb. 15, 2007 Ernst Zündel Germany 5 years imprisonment[62]
Jan. 14, 2008 Wolfgang Fröhlich Austria 6 years imprisonment (third offence)[63]
Jan. 15, 2008 Sylvia Stolz Germany 3½ years imprisonment[64]
Mar. 11, 2009 Horst Mahler Germany 5 years imprisonment[65]
Oct. 23, 2009 Dirk Zimmerman Germany 9 months imprisonment[66]
Oct. 27, 2009 Richard Williamson Germany €12,000 fine[67]
Didn't read your comment. but I'll just say, this was never an "intelligent debate" I was making a less-than-serious comment to 2 and you took it too far.
Didn't read your comment. but I'll just say, this was never an "intelligent debate" I was making a less-than-serious comment to 2 and you took it too far.
Totally different situations? Not entirely. Lennon and MLK both had seriously left-wing leanings and were considered communist, our government REALLY doesn't like that. Canada has less of a problem, but my whole point was that you're only as free as the government lets you be unless that government has it in their constitution that you have a RIGHT to that freedom.
Do people abuse the First Amendment here? All the fucking time. Does that mean we should repeal it? Hell no, it's already been quashed enough in the past as it is. Flag-burning laws, "free speech zones", the PATRIOT Act, you name it. But I wouldn't want to live in a country without free expression either.
What's funny about you gand Sepiaa saying I'm being a "typical ignorant U.S. nationalist" and "bashing Canada" though is I actually really like Canada and would happily marry a Canadian citizen boyfriend of mine in order to live there. Socially and politically you guys are leaps and bounds beyond the U.S. right now. It's just silly stuff like the speech limitations that irks me, and perhaps it was rather shitty of me to jump him out of nowhere with that line. I just don't like anybody making a statement saying their country is incapable of fucking up, because no one's living in paradise.
I still think it'd be two different situations. You brought up the idea that if they were here they'd be jailed for their speeches based on what I said. The reason I said it'd be different situations is because despite their "communist, left leaning" ideals, to us they weren't that radical really if you sat and thought about it. So while they might be arrested... it was likelier they wouldn't be, because what they were talking about wasn't that drastic to us.
I never said you were a typical ignorant US nationalist or that you were bashing Canada. I wouldn't because some of what you said is true. Canada does have it's issues to be sure, and maybe the limited free speech is one of them, but I think that's more opinion really and a US. vs. Can thing. Just like the health care and how our taxes are much higher. My ex - an American - could not get the idea of paying so much taxes and some of them going to health care, because "I don't want to pay for something I won't need, and I don't want to pay for someone else." It's just a difference in social views really.
Heh, funny thing is I have the opposite opinion on taxing. I keep hearing about all the awesome job protections you guys have -- huge amounts of vacation time compared to the U.S., personal days, mandatory unemployment insurance (here the employers can and WILL fight to deny it to you as hard as possible and they often get away with it), etc. etc. and it makes me damned jealous. I wouldn't mind paying extra taxes for all of that because unlike the U.S. if you lose your job in Canada you can still get help so I'd be paying for something I COULD need, not something I "wouldn't use". But that's also because (unlike say, the Tea Party) I acknowledge I'm sharing this planet with 6 billion+ other people and the world doesn't revolve around me.
What's funny to me is I know people here who NEEDED universal healthcare, didn't have it, racked up thousands in medical bills, lived in abject poverty scrimping and saving, leeching off friends and relatives, etc. just to pay off hospitals and doctors, and STILL oppose universal healthcare. It confuses the shit out of me. Meanwhile I've got over $1000 in medical debt for a cut finger that needed 6 stitches, that's it, and it's helped fully ruin my credit, which of course makes job prospects even worse since everyone runs background checks now (I've heard Canada has at least SOME privacy laws keeping employers from discriminating against you based on your background).
But yeah, socially you guys are way ahead of us. Lower crime, less pollution, etc. though yeah okay maybe the baby seal clubbing thing sucks.
Quite frankly I think Canada could do with fewer people like you. The fact of the matter is that the Holocaust *did* happen, there's boatloads of evidence it did, and the people you linked to are akin to people that go on news shows and claim autism is caused by vaccinations when all the research is to the contrary. We protect our people from hate, and that means we have to punish people who make it a show of spreading hate. They try to put their hate-speech as fact, but when you look at their evidence it begins with 'it's my opinion that...'. It would be the same if someone went on TV and used their influence to tell people that sexual diseases are 100% definitely the result of god punishing us because of gay people, or black people are definitely the source of all crime.
And this is also the worst place to start a Holocaust Denial argument.
So arguing in favor of someone's freedom is completely the same thing as touting their beliefs, even when I'm overwhelmingly opposed to those beliefs and think those people are scum of the earth. Gotcha. I even congratulated the UK and Canada on keeping Phelps out, which proves there's no reading comprehension at all here and that once again you Canadians take yourselves far too seriously.
Also, some light reading, just to shed more light on what I was getting at. I consider freedom far broader than you, and I respect your right to a differing opinion, but calling me a Neo-nazi and saying Canada could do without me just because I have ONE tiny issue with your country (and believe me, I only even brought it up because the guy made a purely jingoistic comment about how "perfect" Canada is and I was taking him down a notch for fuck's sake): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil%27s_Advocate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech
Because it's played out, I'll drop the Holocaust crap. I'll use reductio ad absurdum instead.
W.C. Fields was famously quoted as saying "Any man who hates kids and dogs can't be all bad!", a very amusing witticism. However, one could say that was openly advocating hate and violence towards children and animals, and thus immediately have him censored and thrown in jail for hate speech and inciting riots. "Oh no way, that's totally different", you might say. What if he'd based half or all of his entire stand-up act on annoying kid and dog jokes? Then you could say he'd outlined a PLAN for violence and had methods of execution, and that no way should his speech be protected.
We've got comedians making rape jokes now, even to audience members (the recent Daniel Tosh incident that's all over Twitter). Was it in terrible taste? Yes. Was he an asshole for doing it? Arguably, yes. But should he be jailed? Hell no, and the Supreme Court would agree. While you might say Tosh would get away with this kind of low-brown humor just fine in the EU and Canada, I'm not so sure.
That's where I'm getting at, the slippery slope I'm seeing. Either speech is completely free or it's in danger of being even more limited. I've pretty much beaten a dead horse at this point and there's nothing to be gained for rehashing now.
Same difference, now days all government entities with such powers operate along the lines of military code of organization or often have the ability to work hand in hand with them :P point is still valid, to believe the fbi is intelligent as an entity is like saying over-reaction to the slightest potential threat isn't something that could be easily labeled as symptom of paranoia.
good lord.
id have made a huge stink about that, for no reason the break in your place then take your merchandise when they FOUND nothing.
thats like they bent you over and raped your ass without warning and look you in the face afterwards and say "..i know you didnt want it..but your welcome" and just leaves you there
Actually, I'm not going to complain. Compared to other's I've seen, this was the kindest, gentlest FBI raid I've ever seen, if there is such a thing. They *could* have seized all of our computers and whatever else they wanted and told us to just eat shit. But they were actually very professional and polite and tried their best not to cause us undue stress. I'm not sure why they were here in the first place, but it could have gone much MUCH worse.
they broke into your place and ripped you from your home based off of practicaly nothing. to have such a huge and agressively manned raid, for nothing seems unwarranted.
i would want some hardcore evidince before giving a warrant to bust in some persons home.
did you ever find out what it was that made them think you ran a cub-porn studio?
They did take the dvd's? Was it part of the search warrant? If not you can complain, and by law they have to return them to you, or eventually. Sounds like someone didn't do their research right, and as a police fur, those agents need to think before acting.
Because none of those people would ever set up a legitimate business that sends out DVDs to hide the distribution of child porn DVDs. That's just crazy talk.
"Hey George, you can stop investigating those guys. You see, I looked at their website, and it doesn't say 'CHILD PORN' on the main page."
Thats not what I meant. I figured it would be for a first step. Taken with a grain of salt, and gone from there. I mean, what would make them think child porn? There would have to be something that made them think that child porn was being made.
That's a very creative way to get a free copy of your DVDs, posing as FBI agents and staging a raid. I suppose it's flattering that they'd go through all that trouble. They must be really huge fans. ^^
While picturing this, I could only imagine you holding a glass of cheap wine from a box, and throughout this entire event, you keep thinking to yourself, "I knew I should have went with the Zinfandel today..".
Probably not. Apologizing admits fault, which can get you sued. It's also why hidden camera/prank shows never apologize, but just say "You guys are all good sports, thanks".
That said, when you sue the U.S. government, you actually have to get federal permission first. Dunno if that applies to the FBI but I think it does.
Anyone who's been sued for damages because they said "I'm sorry" when someone else totalled their car and put them in the hospital would disagree with you.
No! In fact, they thought they had a great bust! I mean... here we are, grown adults with plushie toys, cute animal suits and cartoon pictures. And in the garage is a make-shift TV studio! We must have red flagged the hell out of them!
I have to wonder...could it have been that community maintenance worker who wrote you up for not being able to park a car in your garage? Sounds like someone might have an axe to grind... o.o
That is definitely another thought that has crossed my mind. If I find out someone reported us for some stupid shit, someone has got a kick in the balls coming.
If you find out someone reported you for some stupid shit, contact the FBI guys via an attorney and watch the fun as the probably 20 thousand dollars in assets they used here get charged to the guy who called them in on you. Not to mention a couple felonies.
Actually there is no law against recording fed agents in public or in your home beyond basic privacy laws, IE can't upload their face and voice to YouTube without permission but you can take stills and record for evidentiary purposes, ESPECIALLY in your own home.
Time to start a wall of random 'gift' objects to display in the 2 Sense show background, and I expect that warrant to be framed and hanging in the center. LOL
I hate to ask but do you have any legal weapons in the house? I've seen your chocolate bunny death video so hopefully they didn't fuck with that. Thankfully though they didn't find the snacking babies in the fridge.
Child porn. Seriously? O_O
*laughs my fluffy Persian tail off at the rest of the journal*
Yup, this is a gold mind of material for your soon to be upcoming stage performance.
"But one thing they did take was one of each copy of my DVDs. Hope you enjoy them, fuckers!"
Brilliant! *keeps laughing* Just brilliant!
This may make you more popular than you were before if the FBI has their hands on your work now.
The bird is the word and the word is spreading.
I was there, I am one of the roommates and I can tell you, nothing wakes you up faster than an FBI Agent waving a gun screaming at you telling you to put your hands up. This was not one of the experiences I ever expected to have in this life....
XD What in the world? Where did they get the idea that a harmless Studio for random studio work was a front for Child Porn? That's what I want to know XD That's just...I can't find the words for the laughability of the raid...If you use it is a bit on Stage for one of your acts, someone better film it to share with the rest of us XDD
That. Is. Epic. I wonder where they got their "evidence" necessary to obtain a warrant. I suppose the presence of plushies, fursuits, and film equipment does look suspicious, but who the hell tipped them off? xD
Okay, this is the fun part. Apparently, what tipped them off was the streaming we did for the 2 Sense Show. They thought we might be Anonymous or someone running hacks or DDOSs on other sites. So they started watching us. It's all the fault of 2 Sense!
I Friggin' LOVE your 2 Sense netstreams. That just made me love it even more, if the government thinks that it's a digital attack... I'd say more of a psychological one... each to their own.
See what happens when you put on an anonymous mask and stream it online! The FBI bumps you up the most wanted list. LOL Wow...and these are the people supposedly keeping us safe.
So... they saw massive amounts of upload bandwidth usage, which led them to think you're hackers, and upon further investigation somehow concluded that you were filming child pornography? HELLO I AM AMERICA. WHAT IS LOGIC.
It's the new & improved All-In-One-Criminal: Hacker, terrorist, murderer, rapist & child porn distributor. Their evil scheme is to DDoS the police and government agencies with fake evidence against Furries, so that they can then abduct, rape & murder children undisturbed. Then they send out letter bombs disguised as child porn DVDs disguised as furry comedy DVDs.
They are also all muslim communist nazis.
As funny as this is, keep in mind FBI raids require a lot of manhours, equipment, surveillance, and most of all, paperwork. This costs a small fortune, so they don't really do this without SOME justification. I can tell you with some certainty there's some major chewing out going on for the investigators responsible, and now that this has given 2 and Toast FBI files, they're subject to future surveillance.
As someone who's had their phones tapped and mail opened over dramatic "Columbine copycat" bullshit myself, I can sympathize. They didn't find anything on me either of course, but they sure scared the shit out of me for a month.
This is one I have not tried on my boss. "Sorry I'm late. I was handcuffed. By the FBI. For making child porn." Not sure if I wish I had been visiting or am glad I was not. Hm. I wonder if my work laptop would have been covered by the search warrant. That would be a boring read.
Where did they get the idea RGS was doing child porn? Certainly not from anything I have seen broadcast on RGS's Ustream or You Tube accounts. I wonder if it was a "tip" from some jack ass trying to cause trouble for you.
Anyone that tipped them off better have covered their asses, because the FBI does not take bullshitters that waste their time and money lightly. We're talking thousands in fines and jail time for false reports.
Perhaps you should consider the DVD's a tip for them not tearing the house apart looking for CP and/or keeping your computers and equipment, since like you said that's in their power. Maybe they'll enjoy the comedy and attend one of your shows!
Sue them? For what? They didn't break anything. No one was hurt. They didn't cause any damage or real trouble with the exception of 3 hours of boredom (hell, I think they were bored too). There's nothing we could really sue them over.
Emotional distress of having 6 Glocks pointed at you? Return of the evidence they removed from you home? If they are taking anything, you should demand it back. Never let them get away with things like this. it impies your freedom and encourages them to do it to others.
Let's not go jumping the "sue them!" gun. That is a really quic k ay to piss of the wrong people. There are proper channels and more civil ways of ensuring that loose enda get tied up.
Hmmm, Now that is what i call an eventful day. I feel your pain. That happened to me on the state lvl. Look on the bright side you now have new material. Just hope they don't come back after u for the Title Three Cheese Baby.
1. i am glad you and your crew are ok
2. Yay free stage material!
really... sorry to hear that as they really had the wrong people and all that.
but if you will indulge me, its 'kinda' good they are taking a tough look at these things and in a way cracking down on those kind of criminals?
I mean fucked up scenario and sorry you had to go through it! =(
Holy shit 2 do you know what this means!?! The president Sent the fucking FBI to go get your DVDS so he can watch them!!! Obama care HA more like Obama dont care about shit.
Oh this made me laugh pretty darn good xD Also made me glad Im not living in a country where such insane stuff isnt done by the government. We do have the occacional neighbour vigilante though =P
That's kinda funny, I know a bunch of Feds who LISTEN to 2 sense at work lol. On a more serious note, were you present when they searched the computers? Did they have local PD with them, because it sounds more like they were fishing for stuff if they did it based on your net traffic from 2 sense.
If you weren't there when they searched your computers please note me. Dead serious. Otherwise, you might wanna talk to a lawyer about this warrant "the bureau" isn't exactly known for their good faith warrants these days, and speaking professionally this is really suspect.
Well, at least they didn't cause any damage. Over here the police will just smash a door down THEN worry about showing a warrant.
My uncle had it happen to him, they were looking for drugs in his case. Found nothing, and left him with half a door hanging on a hinge, trashed furnishings and a brand new sense of paranoia.
No compensation, they had reasonable cause. Except that it was actually his NEIGHBOR that was dealing... Didn't matter that they got it wrong, he was left to pay for all repairs himself.
His NEW door (which he had to buy himself) was a steel plate with wood laminated over it, with six double length bankvault style pins that went through the doorframe and into cement and steel slots. Cost a fortune, but it meant that the next time the police got a false report of drug dealing from his address, they had to give up battering, and actually talk to him before being allowed to do a search.
Bearing in mind he lived on the top floor of a block of flats with no fire escape. He wasn't likely to launch himself out a window to evade justice even if he WAS guilty of something.
Ugh, normal people. Why they gotta cause so much drama? They must be jealous of how chill furries are. They're trying to get in on that serenity, right? :P
Oh wow! I hope we're lucky enough to hear the whole story at MidFur! :D
I wish I could have seen your face when you opened the door, I really can't imagine what a surprised Gryphon looks like, or a surprised Toast for that matter X3
wow... I'd say "only in America" but I'm sure someone higher up the comment tree has already said it, hahaha. well at least you fella's didn't spend that question time in a cold stone room on an uncomfortable chair .. yeah I watch alot of Law & Order. *chuckles*
Ah well, chalk it up as another event you can tell during your shows, and over a few months watch as it changes slowly.. as it's passed around the fandom until it'd rumored that they had M16's, an APC and were there on strict instructions from the president to stop the spread of furry culture at it's core.
Jeezus birdy you always seem to get yourself into the most interesting of situations. This is almost better then the triple jesus for your stage collection, however... that brings me to a second point. How are you? And also, congratulations!
It's a small comfort that the raid was so restrained & professional. If they were worried about naughty data, then it might make sense to look at random samples of your DVDs. They might expect that files could be courier-distributed on DVDs rather than sent on the internet. (They will probably looking for coded messages from the secret bases in Antarctica.)
Calling 'cp' is the best way to get a warrant to check a publisher out. And some administrators are just interested in having an excuse to practice with full kit on some 'safe' practice runs.
It becomes interesting if they are actually more concerned with someone buying equipment, and setting up what could be a non-mainstream information source -- your own potential netcasting system. That's more difficult for the authorities to control, compared to a network TV station; like owning your own printing press 60 years ago....
So I knew a zine publisher, who in 1966, wanted to move up from printing his hobby-zine on an office copier. He bought a tiny, used offset litho-printer from a printing equipment broker. Two days after he set up the printing machine at his home, two men in dark suits, (with hats!) knocked on his door, and politely asked to come in and talk. The showed their badges; they were US Treasury Agents. They sat in his living room, and spent 30 minutes politely & very carefully summarizing the US counterfeiting laws, and the penalties attached. They thanked the zine fan, got up, and left, and he never heard from them again. The zine fan said that he figured they monitored the sale of any used printing equipment that could possibly be used for counterfeiting bills, and went and gave their little orientation talk to each new owner.
Wai-wai-wai-wai-wait a bunny-eatin' minute here... You mean to tell me if I so much as burn 5 minutes of a DVD off the internet, the FBI can show up at my house and put Uncle Sam's boot unceremoniously up my structurally incompatible posterior, yet THEY on the other hand can waltz in by force and just take actual DVD's?
That joke aside, I'm not at all surprised to find another reason to lower my already waning faith in our government offices, and to be perfectly honest, I'm not sure I even want to bother living in this country, or for that matter, on this planet anymore...
Guess it's time to call Virgin Galactic and just put a down payment on the first available ticket off this rock.
That's super funny but super shitty.... All they had to do was look at your website and ask other furs in the area.....apparently the US government has nothing better to do that try to arrest a stand-up comic...
You know, I remember way back in season one or two of 2 sense, you mentioning you had a file with the FBI, possibly for being linked with rant radio. Sounds like they finally decided to do something about it. I agree with a few others though, next show, we want to see the warrant! I'm sure the agents in the raid will be watching as well, you could give them a shout out.
That happened to me before my family and I lived in a house address 908 2nd st and a small house address 908 1/2 2nd st. I was watching tv when someone knocking on the door. My mother opens it and 8 FBI, DEA, and Border Patrol guns drawn. Mother was cuffed and four kids. Found out the house behind us was a meth lab and we had to keep looking out for when the people returned. Good thing they were never home. Also have help set up raids in a trailer court the sniper was a nice guy let me hold his gun when I was eight years old.
You should probably contact a lawyer and file a freedom of information act request to find out on what basis they have you under surveillance and what information they had collected on you.
I think it's funny that, even though you trash people who make frivolous lawsuits all the time, half the comments here are encouraging you to sue them! From what I hear, they gave you the kid gloves treatment.
Well, I'm still in the thought stage of this. Suing a McDonald's because your coffee was hot is a frivolous lawsuit. Suing the government because Federal Agents raided my house, aimed loaded guns at me and my fiancee and potentially violated our 4th amendment rights as American citizens *for no reason*... I'm not certain that's so frivolous. But like I said, I'm still thinking about it. I can't tell if this really pisses me off or if it was just funny. :)
Good point. I mean, I wasn't there; you're the one who has to make that call. But from what you said, it sounds like these guys were pretty professional and well behaved. If they'd knocked you around and/or trashed the place, that would be different.
But yeah, clearly not comparable to a case of too hot coffee.
The important thing is that you guys are safe and sound.
Its not so much the guys who showed up at the house, they're usually acting on info from the higher ups and just executing the warrant based on what they were told.
Its more the "Special Agent In Charge" (yes, the leadership for most DHS offices are called "SAICS" and its pronounced exactly like yam-bag), or whoever sought the warrant.
Look I get pissed all the time at things that get thrown out because of supposed violations of 4th Amendment, but I(and everyone involved there that was carrying a badge) took an oath to the Constitution of the United States of America, of which the 4th Amendment is a very important part. Myself, and my direct coworkers, and I'd like to believe the agents involved here, believe that the right of an American to sue if they feel their rights were violated, even if they obviously(to us), were not, and the courts tossing out legit(to us) cases on the base of the 4th, is what makes America a great nation and countries like the former Soviet Onion and Red China terrible places. We are accountable and if we fuck up, it takes a "Lawsuit" to show it. It doesn't mean "Sue the government for a million bajillion fafillion dollars" any time you take the Federal Gov't to court its a "Lawsuit". If the agents were acting in good faith, but did violate your rights, nothing bad will happen to them, it will simply become legal precedent. If it is discovered that they acted with some mal intent, then yes, they will lose their jobs and possibly go to jail and in that case they SHOULD.
If the citizens don't keep up honest, we really will become Jackbooted thugs tromping up stairs to piano music and rounding up "undesireables" just like in Schindler's List. Its not that we're good people, or terrible people, its human nature that power corrupts, and the all mighty pimp slap of the circuit courts is the only thing that keeps us reminded and focused on being the good guys.
You know, I find something odd. And bear with me here...
There were no news cameras. This is LA, and there were no news cameras. For a strike force as serious as the one that raided us, they must have thought there was an international weapon trading ring, a meth lab, huge drug stash or something totally major going on in our house. But if they did, why were there no news cameras? They love to get shit like that on TV.
The only thing I'm figuring is that there was no news because they were never informed. And maybe they were never informed because the FBI knew they weren't going to find anything. And that thought, for several reasons, both bothers me and gives me a little bit of a boner. :)
Its possible, they usually call the cameras AFTER they enter, it makes for really bad press to have video of an FBI agent getting shot, even if its just a vest getting ruined.
Oh god could you imagine though, instant jump to conclusion of "Local's raided on SUSPICION of CHILD PORN ring in this area. turns out these people were a part of a social group called FURRIES" And then they pack up and leave and even after every ones cleared and fine the damage is already done. I think it is a fucking miracle that the news crews were not there. Cause Ive seen shit like that in news before where they will point the finger while investigation is going on and later you here nothing cause I only assume nothing was found.
2 You've been begging them to raid your place for years and they finally did. This just proves one thing. They are listening to you 2. They. Are. Listening.
Well, I'm sure you'll be adding that to your list of "What the fucking hell!?" moments; which I'd wager is now the length of an Airbus A380's wingspan.
Hey, I was a cop. One of my roommate was in corrections and has a cop family. We know what to do when agents raid your house... we just think it's hilarious that they raided ours!
Oh, I remember! Just that, somehow, I pictured you being VERY calm and collected with the agents is all. "Hi, uhh... I just put a pot of coffee on... would you like me to carve off a piece for you?"
That has to be one of the biggest WTF moments in history! I bet some jerk said something false just to brighten your day.
Makes me wonder why people are so stupid these days. I'd be yelling or beating the crap out of someone if that happened to me.
I highly suspect this had nothing to do with child porn, and a lot more to do about anti-american activities. You're fairly outspoken when it comes to the US Government Two, and worse yet you've got a webcast that reaches multiple thousands of people all over the US.
The fact that you were immediately greeted by federal agents, with guns drawn. And how they were looking for weapons first and foremost after the house was cleared. They were far more interested in terrorist/guerilla/bomb making activities then they were child porn.
I might be wrong about this, but I'm rather sure that child porn activities are handled on a state/local level first, and are only bumped up to a federal level if it's found that there's large amounts of distributing. The fact that it was immediately federal agents with guns drawn, tells me that they were very much expecting a militant Gryphon dressed in cammies to answer the door with a semi auto rifle.
I don't think this was a spectacular cockup on their part at all. I'm quite certain this is system backlash from all the years of your rants and broadcasts stating: THIS COUNTRY IS FU'D YALL. This is why you're so confused about just what happened. Child porn was not the primary reason you were being investigated/searched. Only a cover story to allow them to search your property.
They've done far worse, to people for far less, for example: Dana Simpson (formerly David Simpson, the artist behind ozzy and millie) ran a political webcomic... Nothing inflammatory - just insightful thought provoking cartooning. Just for that endevour, They're now on the US no-fly list.
Well, in defense of the Agents involved, and this is the only small part where I'll do that. Once they initiated the "Knock and talk" and he answered the door, guns drawn wasn't necessarily the way to be. I its traditionally more like " knock, no answer, draw, take down door", however, after that, it _IS_ procedure to sweep the house for weapons and or(but especially AND) additional persons. Executing a Warrant for X can quickly turn to shit if the resident forgot to tell you he has a paranoid schizophrenic roommate who's off their meds and also collects AK-47's. Shit like that actually HAPPENS, also its amazing how often the reporting party in a domestic violence case can suddenly turn violent towards the responding police.
Rule #1 of law enforcement, is "Thou shalt go home to thy family at the end of thy shift".
That being said, the idea of 2 answering the door in Cammie Jammies is awesome, someone needs to buy him a set.
I understand the point of being super careful in the case of the unknown. However, logically following the sequence of events, and with the knowledge of every other child porn news report I've ever heard, follow my thinking here.
-First, the 'knock and talk' (with guns already drawn???)
-Second, after clearing the house of residents whom are all taken outside, the house is now clear. (They then check the house for weapons, when there's no one in side that could use them??? wasn't this about child porn?)
-Third, they take the people back in the house, then start looking around for more incriminating evidence. (um, this is the FBI here, why wasn't there a van outside that you keep the potential offenders in while the house is investigated. For all they know there's a voice activated bomb in the ceiling. Point is, you do not reintroduce one unknown with a other potential unknown and expect to be safe within it's walls.)
-Forth, They grilled them for 3 hours, took some of his DVD's, then left. (What the fuck, in every child porn case I've ever heard of, the computers are always confiscated. And they took DVD's that are easily acquired through any online source? Wouldn't this have been done in the investigation process leading up to acquiring the warrant? It's like trying to saddle the horse after it's left the stable. Second, as much as we would like to think that there is some supermegapowerful epic device that government investigators attach to your computer and suddenly it makes a complete copy of your harddrive, immediately cracking all passwords and drive encryption. No. They take the computers with them )
This is the FBI we're talking about here. They are supposed to be the pinnacle of investigative departments. A cockup as spectacular as this tells me that either A) the real reason they where there is not why they said they were there. (more likely) or B) the bureau has been so mired in stupidity from the endless amounts of witch-hunts they've been sent on (TERRORISTSTS EVERYWARE!) that we're seeing a small example of it here.
I can answer a lot of the procedural stuff really, but to the house search, there may (and have been in the past) armed assailants hiding in the house, they're checking for both people and weapons, it's an officer safety issue and has stood up to many supreme court tests.
I'm not of the opinion that this entire situation was handled or investigated well, i think realistically it could have been resolved without the theatricality. Possibly with just a little research.
That's as far as I'm willing to go at this juncture.
This was probably some neighbour of 2 and Toast that saw them carting in boatloads of AV, camera, lighting, and sound equipment into a tiny, new rented house, picked up on the fact they are in there a LOT doing something with the cameras, and lots of people come and go. They probably assumed the worst and maybe they figured, hell, if it's not child porn, we'll find SOMETHING in there.
And they didn't. And the world goes on.
The cops are known for doing that here in BC, raiding suspicious houses that draw too much power or have a young group with lots of equipment move in suddenly out of nowhere. They're usually looking for Pot growing operations though.
Dude,
All I have to say is Holy shit.
You should definitely scan then photo shop the hell out of the warrant for a CD/DVD cover or something. While I suppose you are right. It could have gone much worse than it did. I guess when it comes down to it, you should have asked their names so you could mention agents Smith, Smith, And Jones during your act. Then Sent them a copy of the DVD. "Since you have the other copies"
Hell send it to your local office care of (who ever the issuing officer is on the warrant) for friggin christmas.
And here I thought my day at 6 am started off interesting with having to stop my puppy from eating rocks. Bright side to all this. You are right, they just dropped solid gold in your lap.
So they took a few DVDs for analysis and/or screening I take it?
On the bright side, I guess they'll have great fun at the office going through your stuff. Perhaps you might even make a few more fans of the show. ;)
Oh, and I hope you frame that warrant and put it in the studio.
You know, I don't have much faith in the government, or people in general, but that's really hard to believe. The 'I', in 'FBI', is supposed to stand for investigation? If I may pretend I'm a government researcher for a sec:
*Ahem* "Okay, we got this thing, 'RGSTV'. They're grown men with plushies and filming equipment, and we have reason to believe that they may be involved in child pornography. To google! R-G-S-T-V... Enter."
Now this would lead me to a webshow, and information on the people. 2 gryphon, Toast, Jibba, Firechild, DJ ear, etcetera, etcetera. Which would in turn lead me to their many collective works, the furry fandom, the shows archives, paypal accounts, and no child porn throughout their entire years of said activities. Double back. Check the math between the known bandwidth usage and the amount of bandwidth their know works would have needed to have been released within a certain time period. Add some give 'n' pull for general living usage of said bandwidth. Givin' everything checks out, that would lead me to believe that the suspects are weird, no doubt, but let alone normal civilians going about their daily lives as comedians, artists, musicians, etcetera, etcetara...
Did I just blow every government agents mind? Seriously, we know your watching. ;)
Do they really deserve the investigation part, when I just did their work for them using Google!? How much money did they spend on this operation!? Seriously though, I'm at least glad they where civil about it. It could have gone a lot worse. Hope you can save some material for 2 sense though, I'd hate to miss out on the stories.
As for weapons...I'm glad they didn't find any neon pink colored pencils laying around, or you'd be in some serious trouble for possession of an unlicensed weapon! :o
And I can't believe the guys had the nerve to handcuff you and not make it worth your while. Is it too much to ask for the FBI to at least give you a handjob while you're all cuffed up?
That said, what happens when there's an FBI raid and someone's already cuffed to their bed because they were in the middle of something? Does the FBI uncuff them to move them, or do they just cover up the person with a blanket to make it decent and proceed to question him there?
Rhetorical questions, I really don't want any serious answers to that.
Awww. They were just fans of the show! The government wouldn't be caught PAYING for something. So what's the best way to get it, rather then an actual raid!
On a serious note.. I woke up to read this..Gave me a good chuckle.
I think the only reason they were so polite about the raid is because these things have been happening far too often lately. There was a SWAT raid because they traces death threats to someone's unsecured Wifi and they broke in tear gas and flash bangs on an 18 year old girl watching reality TV, which is a crime in itself, but not one you can be arrested for.
Lol, crazy! All I can think of is how odd the phone call to Toast's job must have been, "Hey, sorry but I might be late for work. Yeah, the FBI is here investigating my household for child porn."
I wonder if this is related to your apartment rep getting all pissy at you having a studio in your garage and bringing up the "You must be able to fit a car in here rule". You showed them up by shifting the studio around and still getting a car in. It's the kind of thing an interfering "Jobs-worth" would do:
"Damn, I thought they'd have to take the studio down...made me look stupid...now how do I get them to comply with my rules....Oooo I know!!"
RING RING
"Hello FBI, I'd like to report a CHILD PORN STUDIO in an apartment, there's all kinds of sick stuff going on, guys with bunny ear on their hats, women with huge pink mohicans, girls wearing lederhosen and waving gears around and this bald dude that runs the entire thing...he never takes his sunglasses off. It's sick I tell you sick!"
Glad I finished my tea earlier, or it would be all over the screen that I've already had to wipe clean once during this thread. *snerk* I like yer brain. >^__^<
First of all 6 fucking glocks and a search for weapons cause they suspect child porn!? WHAT!?
Do people like that constantly go wielding guns around? I'm not defending it or anything I'm saying kinda fucking extreme. I think this was a big middle finger at you Two for the stuff you say. Some kinda warning.
sadly the FBI whenever they conduct searches it is standard protocol to have their weapons drawn and search for weapons reguardles what they are supposed to be looking for. They do it purely as a level of safety and security for their team, military search teams go through the same training and procedures.
And I was prior military so I'm aware with safety in a search but that's like police officer readying his gun cause you ran a red light.
This whole child porn thing, Bad yes. But is it very likely for such perpetrators to be taking up arms. I don't think Ive heard of a single pedophilia scandal ever involving a gun. But that's just what Ive seen in news I've come across, I could be wrong. It just sound excessive and over blown. Then again two can exaggerate at times its the comedians job
I can definitely agree with the excessive part but in this day and age who's to know who does and doesn't have a gun in their house on on their person.
I can hardly wait to see what 2 does on his show reflecting this situation though.
Agreed and too cant wait. But in defense too I once had a cop approach me with his hand ready on his gun. Why? Cause I was wearing a mask and he thought I was gonna rob the store. This idea of caution is broken when you relies its only taken on those who meet the qualification of "Suspicious" and that average Joe in jeans and t-shirt is just as likely to flip balls and pull a gun shooting off at random people. But now I think its getting far from the point at the start, I'm sorry. Which was "Fuck em up Two"
I know the feeling. I got pulled over for doing 5 mph over the limit back in 98' and the cop pulled his gun when I went to get the registration out of my glove box. And no need to apologize, comments in this journal are going haywire lol.
Heheh, when I got rammed by the stolen mercury, I was SO out of it when the cop arrived, I drew MY weapon and proceeded to help him clear my own car! Once I realized it was mine and told him, he asked if I hit my head and I responded "I dunno bro, probably, I spun around a lot of times!
In my defense, he was so high on adrenaline from the car chase it didn't occur to him to ask why another armed LEO was just kind of wandering around the crashed van going "aww shit..."
I guess this is what happens when you live in a false-positive society. We would rather Burst in to 100 homes and ruin 100 breakfasts and have them be innocent then to not burst into one and have them get away with child porn.
Kudos on having absolutely nothing that got you in trouble with the feds in your house. I know that even if the warrant was for something very specific, they can charge you with anything hey happen to find. Whether their initial suspicions were correct or not.
....me personaly, id have raised holly hell myself...then sued for damages, the likelihood of me getting anything would be slim to none sure, but its the principle of the fucking thing...heres the serious thing though...in order to get that warrant they needed enough apparently valid evidence to convince a judge to issue it....so....yeah...so that's the first thing id ask, where is this suposed evidence they had to base a search of your studio off of?
Hey 2 did you forget who you are????? Your the boss of the furry mafia you can get back at them for not giving you $20.00 bucks of the tax payers money. I know you can get it out of them get to it.
If the FBI got their search warrant because somebody was downloading child porn back from your IP, then they would have taken your wireless router to check if it had interesting logs. I can't imagine what evidence they had to justify a search warrant, or why they let you off so easy.
i had a run in with the FBI too two years ago and a bunch of guys dressed in military OD green combat gear for being at the wrong place and at the wrong time. the whole thing was over the Hutaree militia raid near Ann arbor Michigan. i got involved with them for going to these meetings in the town of dexter and saw the guys in that group there quite often.
one day i was talking to the ring leader of the group, got a cell phone call saying one of the member's had died. be here for this wake, turns out it was a setup as the news reported, first thing that happens i pull up to this warehouse in saline, see this Ryder truck parked in the back 40' and all these guys with m16's or whatever and im looking at my GPS thinking i was somewhere i shouldn't be. they surrounded my car before i know it. the door flys open and they have their guns pointed "get out off the car, get out of the car!" i was in a catatonic brain fart mode at that point. i go limp on the ground, hands zip tied instantly, carried away to the doors of the warehouse and two FBI agents come walking out after i was searched and patted down. they help me up and took me inside. i was detained for an hour, they asked me how do i know Mark Koernke, David Brain Stone and the others. i told them it was just a Christan church thing deal. ya some of us had firearms nothing illeagl, i told them i didn't own any just borrowed them for target practice, which we did a lot. i was shaking like a leaf the whole time as one would get up and leave and one would stay and ask me something else, the other one did the same, i could hear the voice's of other people i knew in the distance. they let me go after and hour and they said just go straight home don't call anyone, but before i got inside my car the fbi agent asked me to point at a bumper sticker on my car, i saw a flash and he must of tooken a picture. it was some sticker that said "just say no to the new world order." i get home call my my mom and her bf talked and said just relax, told you this day would happen but you wouldn't listen. yada yada. i called Edward Koernke, the liberty tree radio station that hosts the intelligence report that mark Koernke has been doing for the last 20 years, called little after ten pm, told them the situation report that this militia group was under attack, turns out mark was one of the guys they where looking for too but as i know it he was at a safe hide away location and protected not at home in Dexter. i get off the phone with Edward Koernke and Steven Oterro the ran the station for Republic Broadcasting International, big time website for all those right wing talk radio show hosts talking about black helicopter conspiracy theories and all that. i threw up and passed out. month later i go back to mark's house, no one there at his militia meeting of course after the big controlled press and media drama scared everyone away, found out the others in the group that where detained and never charged with anything all had the same "gut feeling" on there way there like i did.
All in all i haven't been back to mark's place and keeping my nose clean. I feel i can share my story as they have all been acquitted and the serious charges against them have been dropped after the trail. So 2, you got your fbi cherry popped like i did :P
Probably just by sheer happenstance. But still! WOW.
My question is this: Did they show up in like a fleet of black Chevy Suburbans? :P
Also, in relation to a comment up above, you said "Compared to other's I've seen, this was the kindest, gentlest FBI raid I've ever seen" The thought of a gentle FBI raid is like saying there was a very soft and subtle plane crash this morning. Can't wait to hear more about this at MFF/whenever you decide to use it on stage.
Out of all that that happened that morning, should
have bid them a 'Good Morning' in return
Maaannn.....That is cold Meanwhile, the culprits
got away and has commondeered another local wireless
access.
That's our public servants at work for ya'
Just heard this on FurCast earlier today. HO-LY SCHNEIKIES! What does scare me is that they probably were shadowing your internet usage for some time and all for naught. Unless they're worried about the number of gun owning furs becoming splinter cells and need ur comedic genius/mind to help them craft a furry spy.
