Elon Musk on Twitter: Sorry, we’ve put pretty extreme rules in place for paint & quality in general. If need be, we’re repainting/replacing entire sections of car or building whole new cars. Got to be done.
My model 3 is a May production. I just shared my paint defects on TMC. I’ve got serious issues with cracks all over the vehicle. When they get wet they bleed what looks like rusty water.
Love the car but makes me a bit sad. Tesla has fixed some but I keep finding more randomly.
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/attachments/d0e0642b-383e-4e5f-9892-efda7d1b7f6f-png.330227/
https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/attachments/91867bfc-2d68-4523-a1db-997e98ea32c6-png.330230/
It’s on the trunk, where the top of the license plate meets the lip of the trunk. Only see it when you open the trunk but makes me sad. Had some other issues that were eventually fixed after two weeks of my car in the shop in other various areas. I’m hoping additional cracks don’t appear...
That’s terrible! That’ll be rusted out in a year tops.
Yeah, these areas are bleeding rusty water when they get wet. I’m not sure if the trunk is aluminum or steel. All other issues seem fixed at this point except for the trunk, which needs to go in for ADDITIONAL correction.
I would be suprised if it was steel, typical cars with aluminium/steel hybrid bodies have steel frames with aluminium panels.
I still don't understand what I am looking at in your pictures --- I just walked out to mine, popped the trunk and looked at the top of the license plate and I could not find anything that looked like what I see in your pictures (with or without cracks).
Can you take another picture a from a little further back to show the context of where this is?
Edit: I also have a May production Model 3
Those cracks are horrendous. I would be so sad if that was my car. Honestly, it’s really concerning me. I want to keep my car for decades. Having severe paint defects like that would put a huge damper on keeping a car for a long time. I take care of my stuff. I expect my purchase to come with a level of quality deserving of the price point.
If there’s anything that would cause me to refuse delivery and cancel my order all together, it’s this. I’ll wait several more years until they get their quality under control.
For what it’s worth, they are taking care of the issues when I find them and bring them to their attention. I knew what I was signing up for being an early adopter. I trust them to make everything right. It’s just the short term pain of being without my car for a few weeks at a time. They have been giving me a Model S loaner so I can’t really complain. TBH, the model 3 is much more enjoyable than the model S though.
I hope so. I would be afraid they wouldn’t be able to fix it properly and then in 5-10 years, things start to get worse.
Honestly the only reason i placed an order bow was for the tax credit. I may not get my car until November. If I have to refuse delivery, than that may be push me outside the full tax credit window. At that point, I’ll just cancel my order and come back in 2-3 years.
It would be super sad, because I want to support Tesla, but I also want a product with a finish that will last as long as I take care of it. If I can’t get that now, I’ll instead put the money into Tesla stock for a few years and hold onto my beloved 04’ 6-speed TL a little longer.
That's just it, you aren't an early adopter. Us model s owners were supposed to be so you wouldn't have to.
I really don’t get how the Model 3 could possibly be more enjoyable than Tesla’s flagship car. ELI5.
The Porsche Cayman, when it was released, was more fun to drive than the base 911..
For what it's worth, those are not paint defects. What's cracking is the body mastic, that's underneath the paint. That's why both photos are where two sections of structure or panels come together, which is where that material is used.
I'm not saying it's not an issue, it just isn't a paint defect. If you're up for it, you can probably close them up yourself using automotive sealant. However, it's good to know they're taking care of them.
Yeah, it’s like an issue with the seams of the body. Is that what you’re getting at? It looks like whatever they used to fill in the seams is shrinking/cracking and destroying the paint and clear coat with it. Makes me really nervous.
Kind of. It's not destroying the paint, really. It's a crack in the mastic - the paint is splitting because the material underneath it is shifting or shrinking.
In other words, you could not do anything different with the paint and expect a different outcome. Thus, it is not a paint defect. That's all I'm trying to get across.
The issue is with the body mastic. Fix that and there's no problem at all.
The question I have at this point then is will the cars that are going in for this now have problems again down the line? This is not the sort of finish you'd expect on a $500 bicycle, never mind a $50,000 car.
Correct. However, in the context of this conversation, it is unique to cars. The mastic used in this versus other applications is a specifically formulated product. That said, the applications may be similar (filling and sealing joints).
That entire car needs to be repurchased by Tesla. Patching the cracks one by one isn't addressing the real problems underneath. You need to push for a buyback/replacement
I think You You Xue (Sp?) had that same issue. They ended up fixing it.
Do you have a link? I’m not sure if these keep popping up or if they were there all along and I’m just noticing them now. I did do a detailed walkthrough of the car after I got it back from Tesla and noticed a few more areas of concern that need correcting. I guess if more pop up over the next couple weeks I’ll know....
Remember the lemon laws if they keep popping up. I'd use the option if it keeps happening. That said, my car's paint was flawless. For all the trolls getting giddy or the good natured having doubts, ALL car companies have lemons, and anecdotal evidence online is NOT indicative of a systemic problem. Most learn this in school but never take it to heart.
Holy crap yours look way worst than mine. I caught mine early on and it’s getting repainted now but I think mine would’ve looked like yours over time. I’ve only had my car for 2 months
They get 3 tries to fix it and if it is still a problem lemon law comes into play. Hopefully it doesn't come to that, but keep it in mind. If you could somehow reach someone important at Tesla they will probably take care of you with a new car or something... Maybe try emailing Elon?
Depends on your state. Most states require that the car has to be at the dealer at least 30 days in the first year. (I assume that Tesla counts as the dealer, but I wouldn’t be shocked if many states lemon laws had not been updated to deal with direct sales)
Although they've been making cars since 2008, caring about paint quality is one of those updates they just made in August 2018. Previous cars cannot get this update OTA.
FWIW I took delivery on my Deep Blue Metallic P3D+ today and I was worried about paint quality. The detailer who will be applying a PPF wrap offered to come to the delivery and inspect the paint quality so I could address any issues before getting it wrapped. He brought a micrometer and some other tools and did an incredibly thorough evaluation. The result? Basically perfect, “the best Tesla he’s ever seen” he said. VIN 72xxx with a August manufacture date. So they aren’t all bad :)
I don't know why people use all these acronyms. I like the quote from Elon Musk to spacex personel "The key test for an acronym is to ask whether it helps or hurts communication".
Very common acronym on TMC. Since Tesla managed to make both “Premium Upgrade Package” (PUP) and “Performance Upgrade Package” (PUP), and since the TMC folks needed a way to disambiguate the Performance option from the Performance option with the Performance Upgrade, they evolved P- and P+ to distinguish.
If you’re in the midst of those discussions, yes, it does help.
FWD typically refers to "Front Wheel Drive". OP may have meant "Falcon Wing Doors". OP, please use the term FW Door(s) if needed here to avoid confusion. Please let the Mods know if I need an adjustment, I'm not perfect.
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Performance Upgrade Package available only with the P3D. Either you get it or you get stock aero wheels.
my vin is 54xxx August build and the blue is very good. got a few ultrasonic sensor points pushed in too much but everything else buffed out (RWD)
sorry for what must seem like a tedious neophyte question but you're just abbreviating your VIN, right? or is it literally only 5 digits long
This website will help you decode VINs: https://www.autocheck.com/vehiclehistory/autocheck/en/vinbasics
There's a 6-digit serial at the end of the VIN that roughly correlates with production date. When people here post their VINs they are only posting the serial number to indicate roughly when the car was built.
I've certainly seen a few people report similar issues on other makes and models. Despite all of the safeguards, it does seem to happen from time to time.
That said, just from what I've read and seen, this does seem to happen more with body shop resprays. It almost makes me wonder if when people see this, if it was a body shop repair that the customer was unaware of before delivery.
It's not Elon's real hair so you might be cloning some random person
Understandably. First, I don't see a reason why the VIN would have to be unmatched to repaint the car. Just repaint the car and deliver it. Probably it is something more and "paint" is just an excuse.
Secondly, if "repaint" excuse is actually true, that just means less Model 3s will be produced, because Tesla's paint shop has a very limited capacity and a permit for just 5k cars/week.
Unmatching the VIN allows them to try and deliver the car somewhere else and hope that the customer accepts delivery. Which would lower their costs and increase revenue.
Tesla stopped delivery not the customer, so the greedy corporation angle doesn't make sense here.
No. A delivery center did. You’re assuming they all have the same eyeballs which they don’t.
The idea is instead of having to fix the original car for the original customer, they can try to pawn it off on a customer with lower standards and make a flawless one for the original customer. That way they don't have to spend any money fixing the original mistake and still get to sell the car.
No idea if it's true or not, but I can see how someone really picky would refuse delivery based on paint defects that I would never notice. I'd be just as happy with a car that the original buyer would refuse. It actually kinda makes sense.
Alternatively they would prefer a flexible schedule to deal with the car in question so it is just faster for everyone to deliver another one.
You missed the whole point of who you replied to. This was not a case of a picky customer, it was caught by Tesla QC.
You're right. I did misread the specific circumstances, but my point still stands; it does seem that Tesla is trying to match the quality of certain cars to the expectations of certain buyers. I don't really have a problem with it as long as everyone ends up happy.
You realized you are wrong and double down? Why would Tesla inform the customer of an issue and then try and force that issue on another customer? Just force it on the first customer, if that was the plan.
Reality is more likely that they pull the VIN entirely to determine what the fix needs to be and then match the customer with a new VIN.
You're right, my comment does not apply to the situations where Tesla diverts the delivery before the customer sees the cars. However, there are instances where a customer refuses a car at delivery. At that point Tesla can either pay to have it fixed or sell it as-is to another buyer. If the issue is very minor (light scratches, door alignment, panel gap), it makes financial sense to try to sell that car to someone who won't notice.
He mentioned paint and quality. It's possible they discovered a different quality issue with that car and issued the person a new build.
Is that true? Doesn't the s3x all share the same paint shop? They're over 7k/week already
Yeah Elon said the paint shop is the only place in the production line where 3 and S/X meet
I just had to turn my down my model x due to paint issues. I am a Tesla Long holder and big proponent. I stopped counting at 7 fixes, some of which had bubbles under the paint and some had paint that was already broken off. and I’m still heart broken. Now we’re waiting for a new build. I hope it’s good. If they had offered a loaner to us to make us feel less bad about leaving them with a 20k down payment it would have soothed the burn a lot. But alas we got nothing unless we committed to taking it after “fixes”
5k a week is false. It’s based on pollution not car count and can go over 7000 a week.
They did this for me too. Said it was faster to locate a new car than wait for my car to get paint issues fixed. And it was. Still don’t have the car because on delivery day two days ago they found a defect with the C pillar that needs to be fixed.
Why do you think they assign a VIN of an already completed car before they inspect the car for problems?
I think the factory focuses more on car performance and major cosmetic issues, and the delivery center focuses on the fine details. I think the reason for that is because cars regularly get small dings and nicks in transport and it’s not uncommon to need touch up and detailing at the dealership (or in tesla’s case, delivery center). When you talk to people, it sounds like 30% or cars at traditional dealerships need some type of work before they are on the lot due to small defects. Due to how Tesla’s sales model works (direct sales), we (the consumer) are getting exposed to all these issues that the dealer would previously have to deal with before it even went on the lot.
Just my 2 cents.
There is a huge difference in having defects leave the factory VS. typical. shipping damage.
There is difference with Tesla VS a company like GM. GM would rather pay their factory employees VS dealerships with markup.
Yea, I had panel gaps on mine and I complained. The manager just said they are within “Tesla spec” I had already had my delivery rescheduled twice so I took the car...telling a customer spending $65k on a car that a door sticking out 1/8 is within spec is bullshit...
Anytime I pointed out something minor upon delivery of mine, they used this term "Tesla Brand" quality. I wanted to punch the person in the face.
Tampa. Funny part was, they just kept repeating it. Like if I noticed a mark on the wheels, they'd say it, and then the mark would wipe away. Wasn't a very good approach to get the customer to accept things. Just felt like I was being forced out.
I don’t get it. Defects are Tesla brand? Or what are they trying to say?
They are trying to say that the defects you see are within allowable limits. If there's a paint chip, they'll say it's within acceptable limits. If there's a gap in the door your not happy about, it's within acceptable limits. Worried about a mark on your headliner, it's within acceptable limits.
I mean, I love the car, but when someone who isn’t crazy about Tesla buys one this won’t be okay at all...
I would have taken my phone out and started recording this smug bullshit.
My front bumper on the driver side was sticking out past the fender at delivery. The specialist walked over to another 3 and pointed out, “That’s how they’re built.”
Same doesn’t mean correct.
If thats within spec maybe they should hire spec designers who aren't legally blind....
I need to go to the SC and show them the missing paint on my bumper. I had many issues... wonder if there will be a real policy sent out or if SC is going to do business as usual. I’d feel like an ass if I had to be like “look at Elon’s tweet!”
Make an appointment online. Take pictures. My local service department reached out to me for pictures so they can order the parts before my appointment.
If you have more than one nearby, try another. Find the best people. They’re replacing my bumper because during a completely different repair, they noticed the white was a bit off. I had no idea. Keep trying...Tesla service can be amazing.
Seriously, do Toyota and BMW repaint lots of cars? How about figure out why they need repainting and fix that.
Had an Audi with a paint defect, the panel was repainted. So yes.
Wait, what? Everything in modern manufacturing isn’t perfect the first time? I’m out. Time to brush off the horse and buggy.
You may want to look at the Toyota Production System. They will go to great lengths to have close to 100 percent perfection out of the factory.
Guess what? All manufactures try. And all fail.
Look into they way they do their assembly line. If an error is spotted, the whole darn line is stopped and everyone goes to help fix that one error, diagnose what went wrong and find out how to prevent it from ever happening again. It’s pretty cool.
My grand Cherokee has misaligned panels and window trim. Most cars do; some are just less noticeable.
Well, FCA were never really known for their exemplar quality control...
Jeep is one of the worst manufacturers from a quality standpoint. They are not in the same league as Toyota.
my pony had a scar on its left flank from a piece of barbed wire during birth, had to shoot it.
I mean by bayesian estimation, if the number of cars is large and you find a paint defect in your sample size of one out of many then you can automatically make the statement that its probable that many other cars also have defects. This is the technical version of "where there's smoke there's fire".
By baysean estimation, if the number of people is large and you hit the lottery one day, then you can automatically make the statement that many people hit the lottery that day.
In other news, anecdote online is still not evidence of anything, regardless of Bayesian estimation.
I imagine they are doing both ...
i hope, but they've been at it for a long time now, and still making the same mistakes it seems. They still can't align the hood consistently. My VIN is 42090 and the hood is aligned way worse than cars made 3-4 months earlier. But in my case, they say it's "in spec" and won't do anything about it. :(
I bought a Lexus where I flew in because they had the color I wanted. Terrible swirl marks. I was kinda pissed but took the car anyway. My 3 is flawless. Paint looks perfect.
I'll bet the swirls were installed by the dealership.
Had a certified pre-owned bmw and they repainted a front fender when I saw little bubbles. Also replaced my outer door when I found a giant hole in the side jamb. Took a while to get back and i remember hearing they had to paint the entire door to match.
CPO could have been crappy body shop work.
A friend of mine does minor bodywork to spruce up CPO cars for dealerships.
Yes they do, but it happens pre-sale. It’s interesting to me how Tesla has completely changed the landscape of the car sale. The other day I saw a man/woman post on here saying that they took delivery of their model 3 and there “were no issues!” For Tesla that’s a surprise, for every other car manufacturer that’s an expectation.
My sister in law had a 10 year old Mercedes with lots of rust bubbles all over the body. Shouldn't be there even after 10 years, especially since it's a Mercedes, right?
We learn, that even very experienced car makers can have issues with the painting.
No, a lot of times they send them out that way and just let the dealer deal with it (no pun intended). I've read of customers complaining about stuff like hair in the clearcoat on a brand new Subaru, etc. It's by no means only Tesla.
It does raise questions about their paint and QC, however the fact that they stopped it before delivery is at least a bit of good news. At least they're not trying to pass it off (which they could have, and occasionally do).
edit: whoever downvoted this - would you prefer that they deliver cars with significant enough defects like this? It's undoubtedly not convenient in the least, but it'd be much worse if you deliver it and expect the customer to spot and address each issue rather than the manufacturer taking ownership. Plus, if it makes the wait long enough, they've stated that they're willing to make it right and replace it, if needed. That seems like doing the reasonable thing in a bad situation. It's not an excuse, they do need to improve QC enough to prevent situations like this, but it's better to hold it back than deliver it that way.
I took my Model 3 in for paint correction and they said the paint job was awful. Will Tesla reimburse me for the paint correction?
After informing you of your bad paint job, did they offer a special '499$' correction package because they liked you?
Haha. No. They did add XPEL and ceramic coating to the car.
Well after the paint from the factory had issues Tesla took it to a certified body shop who made it worse and painted the fender the wrong color of red. It took a month to get it right and when I took it for XPEL they showed me the issues with the paint. Hell the Tesla body shop even scratched my wiper with their buffing machine. I’m no expert so maybe it wasn’t that bad, but the car looks great now.
Ceramic coating is fucking snake oil. It’s just a sealant. Please do not waste your fucking money. Buy a $20 bottle of Klasse.
I took my Model 3 in for paint correction and they said the paint job was awful.
They provide a paid service for paint correction. I'm not sure I'd expect them to be one hundred percent impartial. It's in their interest to tell you that, whether it's true or not.
Paint correction prior to PPF is standard on all cars, new or not. You're locking the paint under your protection for 10 years for thousands of dollars, no shop worth it's salt would recommend that without paint correction.
July production AWD. I suspect this is why my delivery was delayed twice. But no issues once delivered, thank God.
July build also! A few minor issues they are correcting now but I do have my IR coating on the rear glass so I've got that going for me!
This isn't true in all cases. Just read a post (with pictures) with a pretty terrible paint job and Tesla tried to get the owner to take it, as it was "within limits". At least 4-5 paint issues and panel / door alignment problems.
Tesla's got to get this stuff under control. They need to seriously look at improved communications throughout their entire company.
I am hoping these strict requirements are a recent change. I saw a new OBM delivery (vin 71xxxx) yesterday at service where the guy had a ton of tape on his car to show all the defects. I first thought he was being overly picky, but after a closer look the issues were super bad with many defects in the base coat.
Given mine is supposed to be Late September... give it to me in November and take your time. Seriously Tesla. Do it right if need be.
Mine was perfect, two others I saw were perfect too, I wouldn't worry. Anecdote online is NOT evidence of a systemic problem. See the post a few weeks back showing actual data about who reported various quality problems at different months of production. The number currently having problems is quite small, and this data was collected online in a way that still likely overrepresents those with problems (who are motivated to volunteer for the survey).
I've been seeing a lot of complaints about dirt in the clear coat.
Well if Tesla's own forums weren't absolute garbage I could have easily searched it for you, but feel free to be a dick about it. Oh here's your link.
https://forums.tesla.com/forum/forums/super-bummed-had-reject-my-car-paint-defects-there-were-other-fixable-problems-too (and a downvote too)
No you were going out of your way to be a dick. You could have just politely asked for a link.
It's well known there are various delivery issues, accusing every poster of lying is just stupid.
I'm loving my car, but not the roughly 125 exterior issues I found on it. The vast majority are dust or bubbles in the clear coat, but there's also a scratch that I didn't notice between the hood and fender and the black plastic triangle above the passenger mirror is starting to peel off.
Was told by my detailer that with ANY manufacturer (named Audi, Lexus, BMW, even McLarens) there are paint defects from the factory. The problem is that their detailing/prep teams end up making a bigger mess trying to fix these things (buffer trails, scratches from washing, etc). He recommends to all his customers to ask that the car not be detailed or washed from the company if the customer is bringing the car to him right away.
No, it’s pretty standard advice to not let the $9.50/hour kid at the dealership wash your car.
He already has my business, he's saying this will keep things from being more expensive.
If there are factory issues, you’re sending the car back until they give you the car you paid for.
The idea of pricing in detailing on a new car is literally lighting money in fire.
Tesla certainly has a weakness in paint. I'm surprised the S and X don't considering it's the same paint shop.
I'd heard that Tesla has had to go to extreme lengths to meet CA environmental laws that other car companies don't that causes them to use cleaner but less effective prep chemicals.
I don't know for sure if that's true.
Paint process is very different for aluminum vs steel.
X+S are all aluminum, so Tesla has years of getting that right.
Model 3 surfaces are mixed, so I think they have a tougher job and less experience figuring it out, and trying to do a fast ramp and straight to finished product shipping.
I just had to turn down my model x due to paint issues. I’m super sad because it was supposed to be a birthday present for my wife. Hopefully they’ll build us one with love this next time. But the previous one; whatever epoxy or glue was used to bind body parts; the excess wasn’t wiped away and it wasn’t cured before paint. Some of the other issues were bubbled paint patches, a couple thick lines of paint runoff that had extruded itself.
That sux, and for the next person who gets your rejected one.
Nah, it’s probably fixable. They’re just going to need to put in some elbow grease. Frankly I’d be fine with a reworked one if it showed up perfect/close to perfect. I wasn’t given that guarantee and I’m not going to gamble on a $125k car.
That's really rough. Sorry to hear it went like that.
Lol, check out his profile. A post whining about being banned from Facebook for hate speech, a couple posts on Real Tesla about "why would anyone even want an EV?" and "fire Musk!" that got literally no replies, and then some paranoid stuff about how Facebook is in league with California liberals and the government to spy on you through the microphone of your phone. A true Alex Jones disciple here.
Hey "Elon," is that you or is that the Ambien? By the way, fanboy sucker, it ain't a paranoid fantasy about the microphones.
I understand his frustration of having his order pushed back, but when the other option is getting a vehicle with a horribly botched paint job, can you really be mad that they're redo'ing it?
His wording could be interpreted as being a new phenomenon. In other words: July and early August builds may be bad, but September and on builds might be significantly better. Interested to see the September deliveries.
General quality? They haven't been able to get chrome trim lined up for 5 years.....
So is this good or bad? I know the spin will be negative for sure, but Elon always talks in extremes.
Tesla is lacking in the quality department. More quality checks are a good thing in my opinion.
More quality checks are good. Building "a whole new car" as per Elon Musk? That's a fucking waste of money. If the quality is so bad that the entire car needs to be replaced?
They're making rulers based on Tesla's tolerances by now, I'm told. I hope this doesn't mean my ruler is wrong.
In my opinion the only reason you would scrap a whole car is because you're giving it to QA to break down and find the issues in the process, down to the frame.
Normally I'd agree but does Tesla even have a functioning QA department?
Jokes aside, I actually do agree with that but to be honest the way Musk words it it sounds like it's happening regularly. Regular enough that he decided to mention it rather than just leave it out entirely. If it was only 1 or 2 I feel as if he wouldn't mention that part, because it's inconsequential.
Obviously entirely speculation, but if it turned out those were customer rejects, I wouldn't say I'd be surprised.
I can't wait to get my model 3 when it arrives in Europe. I really hope all these problems will be solved by then.
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread:
| Fewer Letters | More Letters |
|---|---|
| AWD | All-Wheel Drive |
| CPO | Certified Pre-Owned |
| EPA | (US) Environmental Protection Agency |
| FUD | Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt |
| FW | Firmware |
| FWD | Front Wheel Drive |
| Falcon Wing Doors | |
| OTA | Over-The-Air software delivery |
| PUP | Premium Upgrade Package |
| RWD | Rear-Wheel Drive |
| SC | Supercharger (Tesla-proprietary fast-charge network) |
| Service Center | |
| Solar City, Tesla subsidiary | |
| TMC | Tesla Motors Club forum |
11 acronyms in this thread; the most compressed thread commented on ^today has 16 acronyms.
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