Armenia Papers?

[Orgoglio italianO]

Anyone try these? Are they pretty good? Or should i just stay with Japanese Shoyeido Incenses

[cacio]

There are a few brands. In general, I like them a lot, but to perfume drawers rather than to burn. I've never really burnt them, so I cannot compare.

The standard ones are based on benzoin, which is a sweetish amber. I like the Santa maria novella, though they are expensive. In France, one can find very inexpensive ones in drugstores (simply called papier d'armenie), which cost a couple of euros per booklet. They're lighter but still good.

Francis Kurkdjian has made a couple in his collection, not based on the standard recipe but with some of his own perfumes. If I remember correctly, one is based on Lumiere noire - I own this - and one on Aqua universalis (though I could be wrong on the second). As with all Kurkdjian brand stuff, they are expensive too.

cacio

[tsuzumi]

Yes, I have the SMN Carta d'Armenia. Very rich. Even the unopened box is noticeable. The fragrance lingers for a while after burning. Using them in drawers or clothing storage would work very well also, I think. They are kinda pricey here, so I am using them sparingly.

[gido]

if burning resin isn't your thing, why don't you get some 'pourable' benzoin oil, smear out a drop over a strip of paper, and burn that?

you'll get great quality, it's fresh, and i won't be very expensive either.

i did the comparison with the original papier d'armenie, and my method smells so much better..

i've got my benzoin from hekserij.nl. they sell good stuff at a good price.

[socalwoman]

I use the less expensive variety. http://www.papierdarmenie.fr/FR/

I bought more than I needed a few years ago, and over time, noticed the scent is less noticeable from the package, but when burnt, it's still the same as when it was new. They scented everything else I had in that drawer too.

Beauty Habit sells them in the US but I got them from an international eBay seller to save a few pennies.

Now I want to try Gido's method. I wonder if simply heating the oil, instead of burning it on paper, produces similar results?

[gido]

Now I want to try Gido's method. I wonder if simply heating the oil, instead of burning it on paper, produces similar results?

most likely, yes. i could even smell more beautiful and you will enjoy it longer. but the stuff might leave some nasty hard/sticky residue on your burner.

i'll give it a try.

when you order the stuff, get the pour-able one, because the pure stuff is rather hard to handle, being semi-solid and sticky. it's so sticky, you could use it as glue. the stuff is hydrophobic, too. the best way to dose it is probably a pipette. the plastic ones cost virtually nothing, they're disposable, but you can re-use them. companies that deal in perfumers supplies (like hekserij.nl) sell these, too.

[gido]

first impressions:

it's probably even better to further dissolve the pour-able benzoin, say 50% or even less in alcohol. even the pour-able stuff is very hard to get into the water in small amounts. (but don't ever put a large amount of pure alcohol mixture into a hot burner! just drop by drop, and only when it's filled with water)

don't make the mistake to get your pipette into the water. all the benzoin will stick to it, and it will be tough (near impossible) to get it back into the water, once it's clung onto the outside of the pipette. i just did this.. only thing i could do, was to smear it to the dry side of the cup from the burner, and then add more water.

one more thing, this procedure might work less good for exterminating other smells. the actual burning/smoke does a lot in this aspect. even lighted a match in the toilette after you've used it?

[gido]

from my inbox:

I'm looking to find a good online place preferably in the U.S.A to find the best quality Benzoin (pourable) can u point me in the rite direction. And what kind of paper should I use to make my own Benzoin paper armenie thingys. Thanks

i've decided to answer you in public, because the answer might be useful to others as well.

for a list of mostly reasonable good suppliers (warning! most others aren't trustworthy! don't go there.) check the sticky on our diy forum.

the best option of these is probably the benzoin siam from white lotus. the indonesian benzoin from liberty natural should be good too. but they both have a minimum order, i think 50$. benzoin keeps well, though. it's an anti-oxidant and a fixative! you could buy a lot and be sorted for a long, long time. and maybe there's some other stuff you want to try. these two are both part of the very best suppliers on the list.

eden botanical has an great reputation, too, but they don't seem to have benzoin. same with perfumer's apprentice.

the good scents company is great as well, but they are notoriously slow and their lack of communication is infamous. (other than that, bill's a very nice guy and his site is a great resource for diy perfumers)

some pointers if you shop elsewhere, the benzoin siam (mainly thailand, also laos, maybe others) is the best and most expensive. other that that, the benzoin sumatra (mainly from sumatra and malaysia) is the second type, less good and less expensive, but still good in better grades. if you buy the stuff from a non-reputable supplier, changes are very large you'll pay for a benzoin siam, but get a cheap and adulterated (cinnamic alcohol,etc) sumatra grade. adulteration is very common. it's a jungle outthere. my advice is to stick with the list.

for the paper, shouldn't be difficult. any piece of paper that's a little thicker than conventional A4, non-coated and absorbent should do. what matters is the burning rate, you can easily test this. should go slow, but should no go out. if there's no paper store in your area, you could even use (non-coated) take-away menus, flyers, or something similar (if you don't mind burning the ink, i wouldn't). some things are better than others, but in the end it doesn't matter that much. even conventional A4 will do.

[Orgoglio italianO]

Thanks Gido :-)

[gido]

you will need some more than just the benzoin for good results and convenience.

• alcohol - the highest grades of everclear will do, or anything you buy from the suppliers on the list. the higher the proof the better. low proof or regular wodka won't do. too much water!
• a bottle - you can get it from the suppliers. purchase one about 10x as large (in volume) as the amount of benzoin you are going to get. you can also recycle something, but you want a very clean (no soap residue) glass bottle that closes very tight.
• a pipette - you can get a disposable one. they're very cheap and you can use them again. suppliers of perfume materials sells these.

more later.

[gido]

here are the directions to make your own papier d'armenie:

pour the content of the benzoin bottle over into the larger container. there's going to be quite some benzoin left in the bottle, it needs some persuasion to move, so fill it with the alcohol, close it and shake. let it sit for a while, maybe shake it up again. let the remains of the benzoin dissolve. then pour it into the larger bottle. start with a 50/50 solution, pour-able benzoin is already diluted, and it depends on several factors what the ideal ratio is, which is probably quite a bit less. i am working with a light 10% solution (1 part benzoin, 9 parts alcohol.) you can always add more alcohol (smell is too strong, solution is not fluid enough) but you can't take it out.

make notes of the ratios if you want to be able to repeat this, without the trouble of finding the right ratios again. you can do this by volume or by weight.

wait a while (preferably a couple of days) before you make some strips and let the rest of the benzoin/alcohol age. store it in a dark place, away from heat, like you would do with perfume.

find some paper that burns not too fast but does not go out, and it should preferably not have too much of a smell. (i just figured that less paper works than i had thought, but i'm sure you can figure it out, just test it with a lighter)

use the pipette to gently smear out a drop or so of the stuff over a small strip of the paper. you can make a batch at once. it's best to keep your room ventilated while doing this. let them dry completely before use.

[CX827]

Thanks orgoglio for staring this thread and gido for the info.

Have seen there couples for sale on Amazon and it is kind of expensive for such a low-end product but now i will definitely try to make some papier d'armenie. Regrading the paper materiel, i think those recycle bags from grocery store may be a good idea.

[gido]

the paper part is harder than i had thought, i guess i was lucky having the right stuff laying around. you don't burn papier d'armenie with a flame, you blow the flame out immediately, and let it smolder. but most paper tends to go out soon.

does the brown paper bag work?

[socalwoman]

I wonder if some kind of cigarette rolling paper would work? Maybe something raw, unbleached, and extra thick?

Also, this is from Papier d'Armenie's website:

"The absorbent paper used to make Papier d’Arménie comes from natural fibre. Its mahogany colour comes from the bath where the sheets soak up the complex fragrance of Papier d’Arménie." and.. "Making Papier d'Arménie requires a completely natural ingredient, benzoin, absorbent paper - salinised so that it burns more slowly - and a blend of aromatics in which the paper is soaked."

I added the italics.

http://www.papierdarmenie.fr/EN/index.php?P=3&PP=2

[gido]

"The absorbent paper used to make Papier d’Arménie comes from natural fibre. Its mahogany colour comes from the bath where the sheets soak up the complex fragrance of Papier d’Arménie." and.. "Making Papier d'Arménie requires a completely natural ingredient, benzoin, absorbent paper - salinised so that it burns more slowly - and a blend of aromatics in which the paper is soaked."I added the italics.

interesting.

i had figured that they added aromachemicals, too. because it doesn't solemnly smell like benzoin, but like a partially chemically reproduced and modified benzoin. from what i can recall it's a bit more woody, and dryer, like cedar. and less full and sweet. it think less balsamic, too, but i am writing from distant memory here.

what is also really nice, is to simply enhance the original cheap strips with just a little bit of good quality benzoin. i've tried this, and it works surprisingly good. it makes them smile. :)

[socalwoman]

what is also really nice, is to simply enhance the original cheap strips with just a little bit of good quality benzoin. i've tried this, and it works surprisingly good. it makes them smile.

I'm going to try this as soon as I get some good benzoin.

Yesterday I was so inspired by this thread I burned through about a dozen papier strips. I burned them over a smoldering piece of gaiac wood I had placed just behind a large fan that I had tilted toward the ceiling. The fan sort of pulled the smoke from both sources, mixed them and scented the entire apartment.

[Orgoglio italianO]

Hello my friends :-) is anyone aware of any other Burning paper brands,other than Santa Maria Novella,Papier d'Armenie and Maison Francis Kurkdjian papers? By the way how are the MFK papers? And what's the best paper qualities out of those three? please chime in :-) thanks everyone for also giving input. And Gido thanks for helping us understand more about DiY paper.

[Silk]

I like the SMN and the MFK both really well, but I prefer the MFK ones because I love their scents and they burn easier.

[Orgoglio italianO]

I like the SMN and the MFK both really well, but I prefer the MFK ones because I love their scents and they burn easier.

SMN -&- MFK papers seem pretty potent and lasting. Probably potent enough for a small room,office etc ? Would you say?

[Starlet fume]

Thank you Gido