Author Topic: Frank J. Tipler's Omega Point  (Read 7683 times)

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Offline boxbrown

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Frank J. Tipler's Omega Point
« on: February 17, 2010, 06:36:07 PM »
Hi All, I don't post here much but I am a big fan of the show.  I wonder if anyone is familiar with Dr. Tiplers' theory of the Omega Point.  It's been dubbed a kind of scientific explanation of heaven. 

I am currently in the process of creating a graphic novel about the mythology of religion, in so far as it's all myth.  Anyway, I want to include this in the part about "heaven" but I want to include the criticism of the theory but I'm not a scientist.  It seems preposterous and definitely gets my skeptic red flags out but I'd like to hear what's wrong with the equation/theory in question. 

Offline Moloch

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Re: Frank J. Tipler's Omega Point
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2010, 09:14:22 PM »
Michael Shermer dedicated a chapter to dealing with Dr. Tipler's Omega Point in why people believe weird things. I'll briefly summarize some of his main criticisms  (in my own words):

1) Tipler claims that Omega Point Theory is a 'testable physical theory for an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent God" and that "if any reader has lost a loved one ... modern physics says you and they shall live again." Tipler nevers does provide any evidence for his so called testable theory and throughout the book relies on what sounds nice and what gives people hope. Nothing resembling an actual scientific hypothesis or theory is presented.

2) Tipler argues away most major hurdles and criticisms with "science will find a way". He claims that humans with not only colonize some galaxies but all galaxies using technologies he assumes will arrive because of his faith in science. Skeptics are often accused of having faith in science, Dr. Tipler demonstrates what that really looks like. He waves away all scientific hurdles including faster than light travel with unscientific wishful thinking.

3) Dr. Tipler's theory seems to be based on nothing short of what he personally wants to happen, though he proposes it likes it's destiny. From his and our limited perspective the concept of accurately predicted the history of the human race until the end of this universe is ludicrous. To demonstrate how improbable his ideas are Micheal Shermer sets up a brief casual link that would need to be followed:

"if the density parameter is greater than 1 and thus the universe is closed and will collapse; if the Bekenstein bound is correct; if the Higgs boson is 220 20 Gev; if humans do not cause their own extinction before developed technology to leave the planet; if humans leave the planet; if human develop the technology to travel interstellar distances at required speeds; if humans find other habitable planets; if humans develop technology to slow down the collapse of the universe; if humans do not enoucnter forms of life hostile to their goals; if humans build a computer that approaches omniscience and omnipotence at the end of time; if this God wants to ressurect all previous life; if if if if!"

So many of these steps might be wrong and there are so many others in between that this theory is nothing more than a highly flawed thought exercise in special pleading.

4) Tipler is manufacturing his ideas in the exact way as to validate his interpretation of Judeo-Christian philosophy. He is creating his own connections between physics and religion by re-defining both.

5) As memory is a product of neuronal connections how will the Omega/God reconstruct something that does not exist. The information within a human brain is truly lost at death, bringing them back is not a technological limitation. Tipler could then argue that the Omega recreates existence from the start using it's apparently infinite energy and recreates all life through causality. The problem also exists of which memories will the Omega recreate and from what point in our lifes? It couldn't truly be a continuation of my consciousness if the memories didn't lead up to my death.

All in all there is no real science in Dr. Tipler's theory. It is best described as an enormous case of special pleading. Here is a man who has stretched the limits of his reasoning to accommodate his own speculative belief system. For a more in-depth look grab "Why People Believe Weird Thing" by Micheal Shermer.

Offline boxbrown

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Re: Frank J. Tipler's Omega Point
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2010, 09:26:02 PM »
thanks so much, that was an unbelievable help!

Offline spiney

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Re: Frank J. Tipler's Omega Point
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2010, 01:23:53 PM »
It's simply a secularised version of De Chardin's Noosphere ...........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noosphere

Offline Beleth

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Re: Frank J. Tipler's Omega Point
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2010, 02:46:21 PM »
I am currently in the process of creating a graphic novel about the mythology of religion, in so far as it's all myth.

Not to derail, but you should read Joseph Campbell's The Hero with a Thousand Faces if you haven't already.  His conclusion is also that it's all myth, and he has great examples to demonstrate it.
I expect to pass through this world but once;
any good thing therefore that I can do, or any kindness that I can show to any fellow creature, let me do it now;
let me not defer or neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again.
-- Stephan Grellet

Offline Moloch

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Re: Frank J. Tipler's Omega Point
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2010, 08:55:55 PM »
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It's simply a secularised version of De Chardin's Noosphere .........
Huh, I'd never read about that noosphere but I had about this one:
Quote
In the 2009 40k novel Mechanicum, the noosphere is an experimental electronic operating system that empowers the user by harnessing the power of the collective mind.
:P

Offline spiney

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Re: Frank J. Tipler's Omega Point
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2010, 07:33:49 AM »
.............. it's also an extension of the group mind concept .............

http://www.stanmcdaniel.com/pubs/development/groupmind.pdf

Offline boxbrown

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Re: Frank J. Tipler's Omega Point
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2010, 01:00:06 PM »
I am currently in the process of creating a graphic novel about the mythology of religion, in so far as it's all myth.

Not to derail, but you should read Joseph Campbell's The Hero with a Thousand Faces if you haven't already.  His conclusion is also that it's all myth, and he has great examples to demonstrate it.

I haven't read that yet, but I have watched a number of Joseph Campbell docs.  He definitely deserves a lot of the credit for getting my brain ready to make this comic.  I will check it out.

Offline 2112

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Re: Frank J. Tipler's Omega Point
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2010, 03:44:43 PM »
Wasn't the Omega Point theory based on the fact that the universe had enough mass that it would eventually collapse in on itself. The discovery of Dark Energy and the fact that the expansion of the universe is actually accelerating pretty much destroys it.
Science probes, it does not prove.
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Offline Moloch

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Re: Frank J. Tipler's Omega Point
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2010, 03:53:48 AM »
Icing on the cake really...  ;D

Offline James Redford

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Re: Frank J. Tipler's Omega Point
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2010, 02:42:33 AM »
Hi All, I don't post here much but I am a big fan of the show.  I wonder if anyone is familiar with Dr. Tiplers' theory of the Omega Point.  It's been dubbed a kind of scientific explanation of heaven. 

I am currently in the process of creating a graphic novel about the mythology of religion, in so far as it's all myth.  Anyway, I want to include this in the part about "heaven" but I want to include the criticism of the theory but I'm not a scientist.  It seems preposterous and definitely gets my skeptic red flags out but I'd like to hear what's wrong with the equation/theory in question.

Hi, boxbrown. Yes, I'm familiar with Prof. Frank J. Tipler's Omega Point Theory.

As far as anyone knows, the Omega Point Theory is correct. To date no refutation of it has appeared in the peer-reviewed scientific literature, or anywhere else for that matter.

For much more on the Omega Point Theory, see Prof. Tipler's below paper, which among other things demonstrates that the known laws of physics (i.e., the Second Law of Thermodynamics, general relativity, quantum mechanics, and the Standard Model of particle physics) require that the universe end in the Omega Point (the final cosmological singularity and state of infinite informational capacity identified as being God):

F. J. Tipler, "The structure of the world from pure numbers," Reports on Progress in Physics, Vol. 68, No. 4 (April 2005), pp. 897-964. http://math.tulane.edu/~tipler/theoryofeverything.pdf Also released as "Feynman-Weinberg Quantum Gravity and the Extended Standard Model as a Theory of Everything," arXiv:0704.3276, April 24, 2007. http://arxiv.org/abs/0704.3276

Out of 50 articles, Prof. Tipler's above paper was selected as one of 12 for the "Highlights of 2005" accolade as "the very best articles published in Reports on Progress in Physics in 2005 [Vol. 68]. Articles were selected by the Editorial Board for their outstanding reviews of the field. They all received the highest praise from our international referees and a high number of downloads from the journal Website." (See Richard Palmer, Publisher, "Highlights of 2005," Reports on Progress in Physics. http://www.iop.org/EJ/journal/-page=extra.highlights/0034-4885 )

Reports on Progress in Physics is the leading journal of the Institute of Physics, Britain's main professional body for physicists. Further, Reports on Progress in Physics has a higher impact factor (according to Journal Citation Reports) than Physical Review Letters, which is the most prestigious American physics journal (one, incidently, which Prof. Tipler has been published in more than once). A journal's impact factor reflects the importance the science community places in that journal in the sense of actually citing its papers in their own papers. (And just to point out, Tipler's 2005 Reports on Progress in Physics paper could not have been published in Physical Review Letters since said paper is nearly book-length, and hence not a "letter" as defined by the latter journal.)

See also the below resource for further information on the Omega Point Theory:

Theophysics: God Is the Ultimate Physicist http://theophysics.chimehost.net , http://theophysics.host56.com

Tipler is Professor of Mathematics and Physics (joint appointment) at Tulane University. His Ph.D. is in the field of global general relativity (the same rarefied field that Profs. Roger Penrose and Stephen Hawking developed), and he is also an expert in particle physics and computer science. His Omega Point Theory has been published in a number of prestigious peer-reviewed physics and science journals in addition to Reports on Progress in Physics, such as Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society (one of the world's leading astrophysics journals), Physics Letters B, the International Journal of Theoretical Physics, etc.

Prof. John A. Wheeler (the father of most relativity research in the U.S.) wrote that "Frank Tipler is widely known for important concepts and theorems in general relativity and gravitation physics" on pg. viii in the "Foreword" to The Anthropic Cosmological Principle (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1986) by cosmologist Prof. John D. Barrow and Tipler, which was the first book wherein Tipler's Omega Point Theory was described. On pg. ix of said book, Prof. Wheeler wrote that Chapter 10 of the book, which concerns the Omega Point Theory, "rivals in thought-provoking power any of the [other chapters]."

The leading quantum physicist in the world, Prof. David Deutsch (inventor of the quantum computer, being the first person to mathematically describe the workings of such a device, and winner of the Institute of Physics' 1998 Paul Dirac Medal and Prize for his work), endorses the physics of the Omega Point Theory in his book The Fabric of Reality (1997). For that, see:

David Deutsch, extracts from Chapter 14: "The Ends of the Universe" of The Fabric of Reality: The Science of Parallel Universes--and Its Implications (London: Allen Lane The Penguin Press, 1997); with additional comments by Frank J. Tipler. http://theophysics.chimehost.net/deutsch-ends-of-the-universe.html

The only way to avoid the Omega Point cosmology is to resort to physical theories which have no experimental support and which violate the known laws of physics, such as with Prof. Stephen Hawking's paper on the black hole information issue which is dependent on the conjectured string theory-based anti-de Sitter space/conformal field theory correspondence (AdS/CFT correspondence). See S. W. Hawking, "Information loss in black holes," Physical Review D, Vol. 72, No. 8, 084013 (October 2005); also at arXiv:hep-th/0507171, July 18, 2005. http://arxiv.org/abs/hep-th/0507171

That is, Prof. Hawking's paper is based upon empirically unconfirmed physics which violate the known laws of physics. It's an impressive testament to the Omega Point Theory's correctness, as Hawking implicitly confirms that the known laws of physics require the universe to collapse in finite time. Hawking realizes that the black hole information issue must be resolved without violating unitarity, yet he's forced to abandon the known laws of physics in order to avoid unitarity violation without the universe collapsing.

Some have suggested that the universe's current acceleration of its expansion obviates the universe collapsing (and therefore obviates the Omega Point). But as Profs. Lawrence M. Krauss and Michael S. Turner point out in "Geometry and Destiny" (General Relativity and Gravitation, Vol. 31, No. 10 [October 1999], pp. 1453-1459; also at arXiv:astro-ph/9904020, April 1, 1999 http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/9904020 ), there is no set of cosmological observations which can tell us whether the universe will expand forever or eventually collapse.

There's a very good reason for that, because that is dependant on the actions of intelligent life. The known laws of physics provide the mechanism for the universe's collapse. As required by the Standard Model, the net baryon number was created in the early universe by baryogenesis via electroweak quantum tunneling. This necessarily forces the Higgs field to be in a vacuum state that is not its absolute vacuum, which is the cause of the positive cosmological constant. But if the baryons in the universe were to be annihilated by the inverse of baryogenesis, again via electroweak quantum tunneling (which is allowed in the Standard Model, as baryon number minus lepton number [B - L] is conserved), then this would force the Higgs field toward its absolute vacuum, cancelling the positive cosmological constant and thereby forcing the universe to collapse. Moreover, this process would provide the ideal form of energy resource and rocket propulsion during the colonization phase of the universe.

Prof. Tipler's above 2005 Reports on Progress in Physics paper also demonstrates that the correct quantum gravity theory has existed since 1962, first discovered by Richard Feynman in that year, and independently discovered by Steven Weinberg and Bryce DeWitt, among others. But because these physicists were looking for equations with a finite number of terms (i.e., derivatives no higher than second order), they abandoned this qualitatively unique quantum gravity theory since in order for it to be consistent it requires an arbitrarily higher number of terms. Further, they didn't realize that this proper theory of quantum gravity is consistent only with a certain set of boundary conditions imposed (which includes the initial Big Bang, and the final Omega Point, cosmological singularities). The equations for this theory of quantum gravity are term-by-term finite, but the same mechanism that forces each term in the series to be finite also forces the entire series to be infinite (i.e., infinities that would otherwise occur in spacetime, consequently destabilizing it, are transferred to the cosmological singularities, thereby preventing the universe from immediately collapsing into nonexistence). As Tipler notes in his book The Physics of Christianity (New York: Doubleday, 2007), pp. 49 and 279, "It is a fundamental mathematical fact that this [infinite series] is the best that we can do. ... This is somewhat analogous to Liouville's theorem in complex analysis, which says that all analytic functions other than constants have singularities either a finite distance from the origin of coordinates or at infinity."

When combined with the Standard Model, the result is the Theory of Everything (TOE) correctly describing and unifying all the forces in physics.
Author of "Jesus Is an Anarchist", Social Science Research Network (SSRN), 2011-12-4 (orig. pub. 2001-12-19) http://ssrn.com/abstract=1337761

Theophysics: God Is the Ultimate Physicist (Prof. Frank J. Tipler's Omega Point Theory and the quantum gravity TOE) http://theophysics.host56.com

Offline James Redford

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Re: Frank J. Tipler's Omega Point
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2010, 02:56:30 AM »
Michael Shermer dedicated a chapter to dealing with Dr. Tipler's Omega Point in why people believe weird things. I'll briefly summarize some of his main criticisms  (in my own words):

1) Tipler claims that Omega Point Theory is a 'testable physical theory for an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent God" and that "if any reader has lost a loved one ... modern physics says you and they shall live again." Tipler nevers does provide any evidence for his so called testable theory and throughout the book relies on what sounds nice and what gives people hope. Nothing resembling an actual scientific hypothesis or theory is presented.

The evidence that Prof. Frank J. Tipler provided for the existence of the Omega Point in his book The Physics of Immortality: Modern Cosmology, God and the Resurrection of the Dead (New York: Doubleday, 1994) was the laws of physics themselves: i.e., that the known laws of physics allow for the Omega Point to exist.

What Prof. Tipler said in his 1994 book is that he didn't have any experimental confirmation that the Omega Point Theory was correct. Hence, he said that he still regarded himself as an atheist, and that he would continue to regard himself as an atheist until the Omega Point Theory is confirmed. The Omega Point Theory has advanced since that time. Since that time it's been shown that the only way to avoid the Omega Point cosmology is to violate the known laws of physics (i.e., the Second Law of Thermodynamics, general relativity, quantum mechanics, and the Standard Model of particle physics), of which have been confirmed by every experiment to date.

In the same book, Prof. Tipler correctly predicted the mass of the top quark, which contradicted the mass predicted by the European Center for Nuclear Research (CERN). Indeed, a paper Tipler sent to Physical Review Letters in 1992 correctly predicting the mass of the top quark was turned down with the explanation from one referee that it was "clearly refuted by experiment. The estimate from CERN indicates it is going to be 150." And so Europe's (and indeed the world's) most influential particle physicists were wrong and Prof. Tipler was right.

Quote
2) Tipler argues away most major hurdles and criticisms with "science will find a way". He claims that humans with not only colonize some galaxies but all galaxies using technologies he assumes will arrive because of his faith in science. Skeptics are often accused of having faith in science, Dr. Tipler demonstrates what that really looks like. He waves away all scientific hurdles including faster than light travel with unscientific wishful thinking.

The quotation you provide of "science will find a way" comes not from Prof. Tipler, but from Michael Shermer in his book Why People Believe Weird Things (A. W. H. Freeman/Owl Book, 2002). Nor have I seen where Shermer has accused Tipler of supporting the idea of faster than lightspeed travel. Tipler has never endorsed such an idea. Tipler accepts all known physical laws. Indeed, Tipler, in addition to being a mathematician, is also a global general relativist (the same rarefied field of Profs. Steven Hawking and Roger Penrose).

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3) Dr. Tipler's theory seems to be based on nothing short of what he personally wants to happen, though he proposes it likes it's destiny. From his and our limited perspective the concept of accurately predicted the history of the human race until the end of this universe is ludicrous. To demonstrate how improbable his ideas are Micheal Shermer sets up a brief casual link that would need to be followed:

"if the density parameter is greater than 1 and thus the universe is closed and will collapse; if the Bekenstein bound is correct; if the Higgs boson is 220 20 Gev; if humans do not cause their own extinction before developed technology to leave the planet; if humans leave the planet; if human develop the technology to travel interstellar distances at required speeds; if humans find other habitable planets; if humans develop technology to slow down the collapse of the universe; if humans do not enoucnter forms of life hostile to their goals; if humans build a computer that approaches omniscience and omnipotence at the end of time; if this God wants to ressurect all previous life; if if if if!"

So many of these steps might be wrong and there are so many others in between that this theory is nothing more than a highly flawed thought exercise in special pleading.

The Omega Point Theory has advanced since the publication of Prof. Tipler's 1994 book. Since that time it's been shown that the only way to avoid the Omega Point Cosmology is to violate the known laws of physics (i.e., the Second Law of Thermodynamics, general relativity, quantum mechanics, and the Standard Model of particle physics), of which have been confirmed by every experiment to date.

Quote
4) Tipler is manufacturing his ideas in the exact way as to validate his interpretation of Judeo-Christian philosophy. He is creating his own connections between physics and religion by re-defining both.

Prof. Tipler didn't set out to physically prove the existence of God. Tipler had been an atheist since the age of 16, yet only circa 1998 did he again become a theist due to advancements in the Omega Point Theory which occured after the publication of his 1994 book The Physics of Immortality (and Tipler even mentions in said book [pg. 305] that he is still an atheist because he didn't at the time have confirmation for the Omega Point Theory).

Tipler's first paper on the Omega Point Theory was in 1986 (Frank J. Tipler, "Cosmological Limits on Computation," International Journal of Theoretical Physics, Vol. 25, No. 6 [June 1986], pp. 617-661). What motivated Tipler's investigation as to how long life could go on was not religion (indeed, Tipler didn't even set out to find God), but Prof. Freeman J. Dyson's paper "Time without end: Physics and biology in an open universe" (Reviews of Modern Physics, Vol. 51, Issue 3 [July 1979], pp. 447-460 http://www.aleph.se/Trans/Global/Omega/dyson.txt ).

Further, in a section entitled "Why I Am Not a Christian" in The Physics of Immortality (pg. 310), Tipler wrote, "However, I emphasize again that I do not think Jesus really rose from the dead. I think his body rotted in some grave." This book was written before Tipler realized what the resurrection mechanism is that Jesus could have used without violating any known laws of physics (and without existing on an emulated level of implementation--in that case the resurrection mechanism would be trivially easy to perform for the society running the emulation).

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5) As memory is a product of neuronal connections how will the Omega/God reconstruct something that does not exist. The information within a human brain is truly lost at death, bringing them back is not a technological limitation. Tipler could then argue that the Omega recreates existence from the start using it's apparently infinite energy and recreates all life through causality. The problem also exists of which memories will the Omega recreate and from what point in our lifes? It couldn't truly be a continuation of my consciousness if the memories didn't lead up to my death.

The foregoing comment contradicts the laws of physics, particularly quantum mechanics and thermodynamics, which require that quantum indistinguishability be true, i.e., that identical quantum states are in every way indistinguishable, even in principle. (For more on this, see The Physics of Immortality [New York: Doubleday, 1994], Chapter IX: "The Physics of Resurrection of the Dead to Eternal Life," Section: "Quantum Mechanics Supports the Pattern Identity Theory," pp. 230-233, and Appendix D: "The Law of Mass Action Requires Quantum Indistinguishability," pp. 412-416.)

It also contradicts mathematics and logic, since a bit sequence that is exactly identical to another is tautologically identical. Mathematics, logic and computing wouldn't be possible if this were not true.

Further, it asserts something that no one actually believes, i.e., as it pertains to situations that people actually have firsthand practical experience with. When someone loses an important computer file, we all realize that if they have a bit-identical copy of the file that it is in every way identical to the one they lost.

Let's contemplate the absurdity that would arise if someone believed contrarily. Take the example of a man who comes home to find that his hard drive has crashed, irretrievably corrupting all his files. The man is an author, and his hard drive contained all of the chapters to his forthcoming thousand-page magnum opus which he had spent many years of painstaking labor on. He becomes distraught upon realizing that all his years of diligent effort have been wiped out. Whereupon his wife informs him that she made a bit-identical backup copy of the entire hard drive earlier that day. The husband, hearing this, responds thusly:

""
O', my pulchritudinous wife, you have brought me very low--lower than before! For in this, my great moment of need, you, rather than provide me succor, instead have chosen to mock me with your offer of an ersatz simulacrum of my œuvre. Forsooth, what Fate hath wrought asunder upon the Plutonian shore cannot be undone by means of a spurious effigy.

O', why must you mock me so, thou taunting temptress?! Depart from my presence so that I can mourn alone, and take with you that counterfeit mimature of my opus! I must resign myself to the fact that my great work is forever lost!
""

Anyone knowledgeable with computers would realize that this husband has a fundamental misunderstanding of the situation: that two bit-identical files aren't merely an imitation of each other, but that they are mathematically, logically, and computationally exactly identical in every way, even in principle. They aren't merely very similar: they are indeed exactly the same file.

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All in all there is no real science in Dr. Tipler's theory. It is best described as an enormous case of special pleading. Here is a man who has stretched the limits of his reasoning to accommodate his own speculative belief system. For a more in-depth look grab "Why People Believe Weird Thing" by Micheal Shermer.

Michael Shermer isn't a mathematician or a physicist, unlike Prof. Tipler (who holds a joint professorship appointment in both the departments of Mathematics and of Physics); nor has Shermer ever published his criticisms of Tipler's Omega Point Theory in any peer-reviewed science journal (let alone physics journal), which is the standard process of the scientific method.

Whereas Prof. Tipler's Omega Point Theory has been published in a number of the world's leading peer-reviewed physics and science journals.[1] Even NASA itself has peer-reviewed his Omega Point Theory and found it correct according to the known laws of physics (see below). No refutation of it exists within the peer-reviewed scientific literature, or anywhere else for that matter.

Below are some of the peer-reviewed science and physics journals in which Prof. Tipler's Omega Point Theory has been published:

- Frank J. Tipler, "Cosmological Limits on Computation," International Journal of Theoretical Physics, Vol. 25, No. 6 (June 1986), pp. 617-661; doi:10.1007/BF00670475. (First paper on the Omega Point Theory.)

- Frank J. Tipler, "The Omega Point as Eschaton: Answers to Pannenberg's Questions for Scientists," Zygon: Journal of Religion & Science, Vol. 24, Issue 2 (June 1989), pp. 217-253; doi:10.1111/j.1467-9744.1989.tb01112.x. http://www.webcitation.org/5nY0aytpz , http://www.gazup.com/FLQT0-tipler-omega-point-as-eschaton.pdf-download-mirrors Republished as Chapter 7: "The Omega Point as Eschaton: Answers to Pannenberg's Questions to Scientists" in Beginning with the End: God, Science, and Wolfhart Pannenberg, edited by Carol Rausch Albright and Joel Haugen (Chicago, Ill.: Open Court Publishing Company, 1997), ISBN: 0812693256, pp. 156-194.

- Frank J. Tipler, "The ultimate fate of life in universes which undergo inflation," Physics Letters B, Vol. 286, Issues 1-2 (July 23, 1992), pp. 36-43; doi:10.1016/0370-2693(92)90155-W.

- Frank J. Tipler, "Ultrarelativistic Rockets and the Ultimate Future of the Universe," NASA Breakthrough Propulsion Physics Workshop Proceedings, National Aeronautics and Space Administration, January 1999, pp. 111-119; an invited paper in the proceedings of a conference held at and sponsored by NASA Lewis Research Center, Cleveland, Ohio, August 12-14, 1998; doi:2060/19990023204. Document ID: 19990023204. Report Number: E-11429; NAS 1.55:208694; NASA/CP-1999-208694. http://www.webcitation.org/5nY13xRip See also: http://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?Ntk=DocumentID&Ntt=19990023204 , http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19990023204_1999021520.pdf

- Frank J. Tipler, "The Ultimate Future of the Universe, Black Hole Event Horizon Topologies, Holography, and the Value of the Cosmological Constant," arXiv:astro-ph/0104011, April 1, 2001. http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0104011 Published in Relativistic Astrophysics: 20th Texas Symposium, Austin, TX, 10-15 December 2000, edited by J. Craig Wheeler and Hugo Martel (Melville, N.Y.: American Institute of Physics, 2001), ISBN: 0735400261, which is AIP Conference Proceedings, Vol. 586 (October 15, 2001), pp. 769-772; doi:10.1063/1.1419654.

- Frank J. Tipler, "Intelligent life in cosmology," International Journal of Astrobiology, Vol. 2, Issue 2 (April 2003), pp. 141-148; doi:10.1017/S1473550403001526. http://theophysics.110mb.com/pdf/tipler-intelligent-life-in-cosmology.pdf Also at arXiv:0704.0058, March 31, 2007. http://arxiv.org/abs/0704.0058

- Frank J. Tipler, Jessica Graber, Matthew McGinley, Joshua Nichols-Barrer and Christopher Staecker, "Closed Universes With Black Holes But No Event Horizons As a Solution to the Black Hole Information Problem," arXiv:gr-qc/0003082, March 20, 2000. http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0003082 Published in Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society, Vol. 379, Issue 2 (August 2007), pp. 629-640; doi:10.1111/j.1365-2966.2007.11895.x.

- F. J. Tipler, "The structure of the world from pure numbers," Reports on Progress in Physics, Vol. 68, No. 4 (April 2005), pp. 897-964; doi:10.1088/0034-4885/68/4/R04. http://math.tulane.edu/~tipler/theoryofeverything.pdf Also released as "Feynman-Weinberg Quantum Gravity and the Extended Standard Model as a Theory of Everything," arXiv:0704.3276, April 24, 2007. http://arxiv.org/abs/0704.3276

Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society, in which the above August 2007 paper was published, is one of the world's leading peer-reviewed astrophysics journals.

Prof. Tipler's paper "Ultrarelativistic Rockets and the Ultimate Future of the Universe" was an invited paper for a conference held at and sponsored by NASA Lewis Research Center, so NASA itself has peer-reviewed Tipler's Omega Point Theory (peer-review is a standard process for published proceedings papers; and again, Tipler's said paper was an *invited* paper by NASA, as opposed to what are called "poster papers").

Zygon is the world's leading peer-reviewed academic journal on science and religion.

Out of 50 articles, Prof. Tipler's 2005 Reports in Progress in Physics paper--which presents the Feynman-Weinberg quantum gravity/Standard Model Theory of Everything (TOE)--was selected as one of 12 for the "Highlights of 2005" accolade as "the very best articles published in Reports on Progress in Physics in 2005 [Vol. 68]. Articles were selected by the Editorial Board for their outstanding reviews of the field. They all received the highest praise from our international referees and a high number of downloads from the journal Website." (See Richard Palmer, Publisher, "Highlights of 2005," Reports on Progress in Physics. http://www.iop.org/EJ/journal/-page=extra.highlights/0034-4885 )

Reports on Progress in Physics is the leading journal of the Institute of Physics, Britain's main professional body for physicists. Further, Reports on Progress in Physics has a higher impact factor (according to Journal Citation Reports) than Physical Review Letters, which is the most prestigious American physics journal (one, incidently, which Prof. Tipler has been published in more than once). A journal's impact factor reflects the importance the science community places in that journal in the sense of actually citing its papers in their own papers. (And just to point out, Tipler's 2005 Reports on Progress in Physics paper could not have been published in Physical Review Letters since said paper is nearly book-length, and hence not a "letter" as defined by the latter journal.)

For much more on these matters, particularly see Prof. Tipler's above 2005 Reports on Progress in Physics paper in addition to the following resource:

Theophysics: God Is the Ultimate Physicist http://theophysics.ifastnet.com , http://theophysics.110mb.com

The only way to avoid the conclusion that the Omega Point exists is to reject the known laws of physics (i.e., the Second Law of Thermodynamics, general relativity, quantum mechanics, and the Standard Model of particle physics), and hence to reject empirical science: as these physical laws have been confirmed by every experiment to date. That is, there exists no rational reason for thinking that the Omega Point Theory is incorrect, and indeed, one must engage in extreme irrationality in order to argue against the Omega Point cosmology.

Additionally, we now have the quantum gravity Theory of Everything (TOE) correctly describing and unifying all the forces in physics: of which inherently produces the Omega Point cosmology. So here we have an additional high degree of assurance that the Omega Point cosmology is correct.

-----

Note:

1. While there is a lot that gets published in physics journals that is anti-reality and non-physical (such as string theory, which violates the known laws of physics and has no experimental support whatsoever), the reason such things are allowed to pass the peer-review process is because the paradigm of assumptions which such papers are speaking to has been made known, and within their operating paradigm none of the referees could find anything wrong with said papers. That is, the paradigm itself may have nothing to do with reality, but the peer-reviewers could find nothing wrong with such papers within the operating assumptions of that paradigm. Whereas, e.g., the operating paradigm of Prof. Tipler's 2005 Reports on Progress in Physics paper is the known laws of physics, i.e., our actual physical reality which has been repeatedly confirmed by every experiment conducted to date. So the professional physicists charged with refereeing this paper could find nothing wrong with it within its operating paradigm, i.e., the known laws of physics.
Author of "Jesus Is an Anarchist", Social Science Research Network (SSRN), 2011-12-4 (orig. pub. 2001-12-19) http://ssrn.com/abstract=1337761

Theophysics: God Is the Ultimate Physicist (Prof. Frank J. Tipler's Omega Point Theory and the quantum gravity TOE) http://theophysics.host56.com

Offline spiney

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Re: Frank J. Tipler's Omega Point
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2010, 12:37:20 PM »
Sorry, but no !

Me Redford's extremely impressive knowledge of this area - with amazing links - does not change the crappiness of the whole idea.

The theory is, NOT that a particular TOE may be correct - with implications for how the universe ends - but that inside a quantum computer, "sentients" will live for an infinite proper time, despite the universe in fact ending.

This isn't metaphysics, not even sci fi, just pure fantasy.

The Omega Point was invented by a theologian, as I pointed out above, and Tipler's is just a fantasy secular version.




Offline James Redford

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Re: Frank J. Tipler's Omega Point
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2010, 11:57:17 PM »
Sorry, but no !

Me Redford's extremely impressive knowledge of this area - with amazing links - does not change the crappiness of the whole idea.

The theory is, NOT that a particular TOE may be correct - with implications for how the universe ends - but that inside a quantum computer, "sentients" will live for an infinite proper time, despite the universe in fact ending.

This isn't metaphysics, not even sci fi, just pure fantasy.

The Omega Point was invented by a theologian, as I pointed out above, and Tipler's is just a fantasy secular version.

The universe's computational capacity diverges to infinity as it approaches the final singularity (i.e., the Omega Point), becoming infinite at the Omega Point.

The distance traversed in order for a signal (such as from a photon) to make a complete transition across the universe continuously gets shorter and shorter as the universe collapses into the final singularity. In other words, the universe's processor speed diverges towards infinitely fast as the universe collapses into the singularity, as the amount of time it takes to send a signal across the universe is continuously getting shorter. A light ray thereby traverses an infinite number of times across the entire universe before the final singularity, allowing an infinite number of computer clock cycles before the end of proper time. Hence, experiential time lasts forever, i.e., the number of thoughts that occur is infinite.

At the same time, the universe's entropy (i.e., informational complexity) diverges to infinity. In other words, the universe's memory space diverges to infinity at the same time that the universe's processor speed is diverging to infinity, with both becoming infinite at the final singularity (i.e., infinite processor speed and infinite memory space at the final singularity).

The term "omega point" was originally used by Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, but as used by Prof. Frank J. Tipler it means "end point," with "point" being a literal geometric point of zero distance measure, i.e., a physical singularity. Teilhard's and Prof. Tipler's omega point concepts are different ideas: one being a philosophical idea by a philosopher, the other being a physics theory by a physicist and mathematician.

Prof. Tipler didn't set out to physically prove the existence of God. Tipler had been an atheist since the age of 16, yet only circa 1998 did he again become a theist due to advancements in the Omega Point Theory which occured after the publication of his 1994 book The Physics of Immortality (and Tipler even mentions in said book [pg. 305] that he is still an atheist because he didn't at the time have confirmation for the Omega Point Theory).

Tipler's first paper on the Omega Point Theory was in 1986 (Frank J. Tipler, "Cosmological Limits on Computation," International Journal of Theoretical Physics, Vol. 25, No. 6 [June 1986], pp. 617-661). What motivated Tipler's investigation as to how long life could go on was not religion (indeed, Tipler didn't even set out to find God), but Prof. Freeman J. Dyson's paper "Time without end: Physics and biology in an open universe" (Reviews of Modern Physics, Vol. 51, Issue 3 [July 1979], pp. 447-460 http://www.aleph.se/Trans/Global/Omega/dyson.txt ).

Further, in a section entitled "Why I Am Not a Christian" in The Physics of Immortality (pg. 310), Tipler wrote, "However, I emphasize again that I do not think Jesus really rose from the dead. I think his body rotted in some grave." This book was written before Tipler realized what the resurrection mechanism is that Jesus could have used without violating any known laws of physics (and without existing on an emulated level of implementation--in that case the resurrection mechanism would be trivially easy to perform for the society running the emulation).

The only way to avoid the conclusion that the Omega Point exists is to reject the known laws of physics (i.e., the Second Law of Thermodynamics, general relativity, quantum mechanics, and the Standard Model of particle physics), and hence to reject empirical science: as these physical laws have been confirmed by every experiment to date. That is, there exists no rational reason for thinking that the Omega Point Theory is incorrect, and indeed, one must engage in extreme irrationality in order to argue against the Omega Point cosmology.

Additionally, we now have the quantum gravity Theory of Everything (TOE) correctly describing and unifying all the forces in physics: of which inherently produces the Omega Point cosmology. So here we have an additional high degree of assurance that the Omega Point cosmology is correct.

Bear in mind that Prof. Frank J. Tipler's Omega Point Theory has been published in a number of the world's leading peer-reviewed physics journals.[1] Even NASA itself has peer-reviewed his Omega Point Theory and found it correct according to the known laws of physics (see below). No refutation of it exists within the peer-reviewed scientific literature, or anywhere else for that matter.

Below are some of the peer-reviewed science and physics journals in which Prof. Tipler's Omega Point Theory has been published:

- Frank J. Tipler, "Cosmological Limits on Computation," International Journal of Theoretical Physics, Vol. 25, No. 6 (June 1986), pp. 617-661; doi:10.1007/BF00670475. (First paper on the Omega Point Theory.)

- Frank J. Tipler, "The Omega Point as Eschaton: Answers to Pannenberg's Questions for Scientists," Zygon: Journal of Religion & Science, Vol. 24, Issue 2 (June 1989), pp. 217-253; doi:10.1111/j.1467-9744.1989.tb01112.x. http://theophysics.110mb.com/pdf/tipler-omega-point-as-eschaton.pdf , http://www.gazup.com/FLQT0-tipler-omega-point-as-eschaton.pdf-download-mirrors Republished as Chapter 7: "The Omega Point as Eschaton: Answers to Pannenberg's Questions to Scientists" in Beginning with the End: God, Science, and Wolfhart Pannenberg, edited by Carol Rausch Albright and Joel Haugen (Chicago, Ill.: Open Court Publishing Company, 1997), ISBN: 0812693256, pp. 156-194.

- Frank J. Tipler, "The ultimate fate of life in universes which undergo inflation," Physics Letters B, Vol. 286, Issues 1-2 (July 23, 1992), pp. 36-43; doi:10.1016/0370-2693(92)90155-W.

- Frank J. Tipler, "Ultrarelativistic Rockets and the Ultimate Future of the Universe," NASA Breakthrough Propulsion Physics Workshop Proceedings, National Aeronautics and Space Administration, January 1999, pp. 111-119; an invited paper in the proceedings of a conference held at and sponsored by NASA Lewis Research Center, Cleveland, Ohio, August 12-14, 1998; doi:2060/19990023204. Document ID: 19990023204. Report Number: E-11429; NAS 1.55:208694; NASA/CP-1999-208694. http://theophysics.110mb.com/pdf/tipler-ultrarelativistic-rockets.pdf See also: http://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?Ntk=DocumentID&Ntt=19990023204 , http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19990023204_1999021520.pdf

- Frank J. Tipler, "The Ultimate Future of the Universe, Black Hole Event Horizon Topologies, Holography, and the Value of the Cosmological Constant," arXiv:astro-ph/0104011, April 1, 2001. http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0104011 Published in Relativistic Astrophysics: 20th Texas Symposium, Austin, TX, 10-15 December 2000, edited by J. Craig Wheeler and Hugo Martel (Melville, N.Y.: American Institute of Physics, 2001), ISBN: 0735400261, which is AIP Conference Proceedings, Vol. 586 (October 15, 2001), pp. 769-772; doi:10.1063/1.1419654.

- Frank J. Tipler, "Intelligent life in cosmology," International Journal of Astrobiology, Vol. 2, Issue 2 (April 2003), pp. 141-148; doi:10.1017/S1473550403001526. http://theophysics.110mb.com/pdf/tipler-intelligent-life-in-cosmology.pdf Also at arXiv:0704.0058, March 31, 2007. http://arxiv.org/abs/0704.0058

- Frank J. Tipler, Jessica Graber, Matthew McGinley, Joshua Nichols-Barrer and Christopher Staecker, "Closed Universes With Black Holes But No Event Horizons As a Solution to the Black Hole Information Problem," arXiv:gr-qc/0003082, March 20, 2000. http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0003082 Published in Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society, Vol. 379, Issue 2 (August 2007), pp. 629-640; doi:10.1111/j.1365-2966.2007.11895.x.

- F. J. Tipler, "The structure of the world from pure numbers," Reports on Progress in Physics, Vol. 68, No. 4 (April 2005), pp. 897-964; doi:10.1088/0034-4885/68/4/R04. http://math.tulane.edu/~tipler/theoryofeverything.pdf Also released as "Feynman-Weinberg Quantum Gravity and the Extended Standard Model as a Theory of Everything," arXiv:0704.3276, April 24, 2007. http://arxiv.org/abs/0704.3276

Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society, in which the above August 2007 paper was published, is one of the world's leading peer-reviewed astrophysics journals.

Prof. Tipler's paper "Ultrarelativistic Rockets and the Ultimate Future of the Universe" was an invited paper for a conference held at and sponsored by NASA Lewis Research Center, so NASA itself has peer-reviewed Tipler's Omega Point Theory (peer-review is a standard process for published proceedings papers; and again, Tipler's said paper was an *invited* paper by NASA, as opposed to what are called "poster papers").

Zygon is the world's leading peer-reviewed academic journal on science and religion.

Out of 50 articles, Prof. Tipler's 2005 Reports in Progress in Physics paper--which presents the Feynman-Weinberg quantum gravity/Standard Model Theory of Everything (TOE)--was selected as one of 12 for the "Highlights of 2005" accolade as "the very best articles published in Reports on Progress in Physics in 2005 [Vol. 68]. Articles were selected by the Editorial Board for their outstanding reviews of the field. They all received the highest praise from our international referees and a high number of downloads from the journal Website." (See Richard Palmer, Publisher, "Highlights of 2005," Reports on Progress in Physics. http://www.iop.org/EJ/journal/-page=extra.highlights/0034-4885 )

Reports on Progress in Physics is the leading journal of the Institute of Physics, Britain's main professional body for physicists. Further, Reports on Progress in Physics has a higher impact factor (according to Journal Citation Reports) than Physical Review Letters, which is the most prestigious American physics journal (one, incidently, which Prof. Tipler has been published in more than once). A journal's impact factor reflects the importance the science community places in that journal in the sense of actually citing its papers in their own papers. (And just to point out, Tipler's 2005 Reports on Progress in Physics paper could not have been published in Physical Review Letters since said paper is nearly book-length, and hence not a "letter" as defined by the latter journal.)

For much more on these matters, particularly see Prof. Tipler's above 2005 Reports on Progress in Physics paper in addition to the following resource:

Theophysics: God Is the Ultimate Physicist http://theophysics.ifastnet.com , http://theophysics.110mb.com

-----

Note:

1. While there is a lot that gets published in physics journals that is anti-reality and non-physical (such as string theory, which violates the known laws of physics and has no experimental support whatsoever), the reason such things are allowed to pass the peer-review process is because the paradigm of assumptions which such papers are speaking to has been made known, and within their operating paradigm none of the referees could find anything wrong with said papers. That is, the paradigm itself may have nothing to do with reality, but the peer-reviewers could find nothing wrong with such papers within the operating assumptions of that paradigm. Whereas, e.g., the operating paradigm of Prof. Tipler's 2005 Reports on Progress in Physics paper is the known laws of physics, i.e., our actual physical reality which has been repeatedly confirmed by every experiment conducted to date. So the professional physicists charged with refereeing this paper could find nothing wrong with it within its operating paradigm, i.e., the known laws of physics.
Author of "Jesus Is an Anarchist", Social Science Research Network (SSRN), 2011-12-4 (orig. pub. 2001-12-19) http://ssrn.com/abstract=1337761

Theophysics: God Is the Ultimate Physicist (Prof. Frank J. Tipler's Omega Point Theory and the quantum gravity TOE) http://theophysics.host56.com

Offline spiney

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Re: Frank J. Tipler's Omega Point
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2010, 07:15:12 AM »
Mr Redford says: "Teilhard's and Prof. Tipler's omega point concepts are different ideas:"

I'm not disputing the physics, which - for all I know - may well be correct. I'm disputing the fantasy element .............

"Tipler have come under a lot of attack for his theories, not entirely undeserved. Applying theology to physics (or the reverse) have long been a taboo, and he boldly breaks it. Whether this is a good or bad thing is hard to tell; there is enormous potential for misunderstanding, confusion and pure pseudoscience, but at the same time it might force some fresh air into the stale dialogue between faith and science. As I see it, Tipler has made several quite audacious claims which probably don't hold water, but many of his ideas and lines of reasoning are probably sound, and might one day be used for other purposes than to prove the existence of the personal God Tipler seeks. ...........

........... The Eternal Life Postulate claims that life will exist forever. If one accept it, Tipler claims one have to accept the Omega Point since it provides the only possible way to bring this about (I would rather say it provides the only known or conjectured way to do this, there might be others). Since life in general seems to evolve towards increased changes of survival in any given environment, one could argue that evolution will favour this Postulate, even if it is not a ontological truth. However, we should always remember that evolution is blind, and many species or groups of organisms have become trapped in blind alleys (like the insects, whose size cannot increase due to their tracheatic system). It is possible that life (and intelligent thought) may become trapped in such a way as to make eternal life impossible. However, the postulate is just one of the reasons Tipler accepts Omega as inevitable."

http://www.aleph.se/Trans/Global/Omega/tipler_page.html

Here's a less kind review:

http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/tipler.html

......... and it gets worse .............

"How can the three persons of the Trinity be one God?

    The Cosmological Singularity consists of three Hypostases: the Final Singularity, the All-Presents Singularity, and the Initial Singularity. These can be distinguished by using Cauchy sequences of different sorts of person, so in the Cauchy completion, they become three distinct Persons. But still, the three Hypostases of the Singularity are just one Singularity. The Trinity, in other words, consists of three Persons but only one God. (pp. 269–270.) .............

(Spiney comment: In other words, the early Christians were experts at Complex Analysis ......... !)
     
............... How did Jesus walk on water?

    For example, walking on water could be accomplished by directing a neutrino beam created just below Jesus' feet downward. If we ourselves knew how to do this, we would have the perfect rocket! (p. 200) ..............

(Spiney comment: Dr Who only has a sonic screwdriver, and Tardis, but after all this is Jesus!)

.......... How can long-dead saints intercede in the lives of people who pray to them?

    According to the Universal Resurrection theory, everyone, in particular the long-dead saints, will be brought back into existence as computer emulations in the far future, near the Final Singularity, also called God the Father. … Future-to-past causation is usual with the Cosmological Singularity. A prayer made today can be transferred by the Singularity to a resurrected saint—the Virgin Mary, say—after the Universal Resurrection. The saint can then reflect on the prayer and, by means of the Son Singularity acting through the multiverse, reply. The reply, via future-to-past causation, is heard before it is made. It is heard billions of years before it is made. (p. 235)".

No Comment!

http://www.fourmilab.ch/fourmilog/archives/2007-06/000851.html
« Last Edit: February 28, 2010, 07:36:53 AM by spiney »

 

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