Ron or Hermione?: Harry's Truest Friend

[blaqlives]

Discussion of the editorial Ron or Hermione?: Harry's Truest Friend by hpboy13.

Read more by hpboy13 here.

[MintorateOishii]

I really like the idea of analyzing how Harry's friendships evolved throughout the books. However, I think your approach of comparing who's the better friend is not the way of going about it. Many of the examples were a bit unfair. Such as in the fifth book when Hermione is organizing the DA and the interview and such. Hermione is definitely smarter than Ron, but that doesn't make Ron less valuable as a friend. To give an analogy, if someone were having hard times financially, and they had one rich friend and one poor friend, just because the rich friend might be able to help this person out more than the poor friend doesn't mean the rich one is a better friend. Friendship is about more than what a person can do for you.

I do agree that Hermione has a better understanding of friendship than Ron does and that she is a lot more mature. This makes her easier to be friends with, for sure. But friends do make mistakes, and Ron made a big one based on his own immaturity, insecurities and lack of strength. But he realizes he makes a mistake and he comes back. I find it interesting that you don't go any further into Deathly Hallows beyond Ron trying in his inexperienced way to get back into Hermione's favor. I haven't read the book since it came out, but I think there is plenty to redeem Ron.

I think JKR really understands friendship and she depicts it very well in the books. And one thing she understands (that you don't seem to, going from your article) friendship isn't like a reality show where you get one chance and if you mess up, you're gone. Also, you don't have the same liability and it's not a competition. People don't want to lose friends and they don't want drama, so forgiveness and growth are a big part of it. You can forgive your friends when they make mistakes because the good outweighs the bad. Both Harry and Hermione love Ron (albeit in different ways) for whatever good qualities he brings to their lives, so they're willing to forgive his shortcomings. But yes, there can be a limit, so it's not like Ron can just go about not apologizing (by the way, you say that Ron didn't apologize enough, but his sucking up to Hermione is in a way apologizing) and taking advantage of the forgiveness part of friendship, and he doesn't. He doesn't do mean things to his friends knowing that they'll just forgive him anyway. If he did, then he would be a bad friend. Instead, he had a real lapse in judgment, but by realizing his mistake and coming back, Hermione and Harry are able to forgive him.

So, overall, I'm afraid I was a bit disappointed at this article. Though it is interesting to see how Harry and Hermione's friendship did get stronger overtime, I think there was a bit too little insight into friendships in general for the comparison between Ron and Hermione to work.

[member_of_SPEW]

I disagree with the basic premise of this article; measuring friendship by what a person does for another person is an intrinsically flawed concept. You can't judge who was a better friend by who had talents that happened to help Harry more!

Later, Hermione is also the only one to accompany Harry during the climax because Ron broke his leg. And this is where Hermione is able to gain ground as Harry's friend.

Chance that made Ron unconscious during the Time Turner (and by the way, it was more Harry accompanying Hermione, I think) hardly makes him any less a friend.

When he’s in the hospital wing at the end of the book, he believes Cedric’s death is his fault (typical Harry, blaming everything on himself). When he’s about to start crying (He could feel a burning, prickling feeling at the inner corners of his eyes.), He wished Ron would look away. (pg. 714). He’s more comfortable crying in front of Hermione, yet not in front of Ron, his usually preferred friend.

I think that's more a social thing - culturally, crying is more acceptable for girls than for guys. :/ Harry didn't want to show his weakness to a guy, even to a best friend. Ron and Hermione are both Harry's best friends in different ways, but this doesn't make one better than the other.

(the entire OotP discussion)

Again, measuring the trio's friendship by what each could do for the other in any particular instance is hardly fair. The situations they were in in OotP - practically organized rebellion - played to Hermione's strengths as a thinker and planner. Ron wouldn't have been able to come up with the story about the weapon - he's not as quick-thinking as Hermione. This hardly makes her more worthy of Harry's friendship.

It's chance that she but not Ron can go to visit Gwarp, insignificant that Ron ends up telling Umbridge about Peeves (I think this is just as dangerous; it would be obvious to Umbridge that he was in on the plot), and chance that when the group splits up, she and not Ron is with Harry.

This shows Harry’s friendship with Hermione at this point is at least as strong as his friendship with Ron, if not more so.

Sure, they are equally his friends, although in different ways. Recognizing that one's friend is being a total git (as Ron himself would say) hardly means one is growing apart.

This book presents the final showdown between Ron and Hermione for the position of Harry’s best friend.

Friendship is not a contest!

All in all, I’d say Hermione’s sacrifice counts for more in this case.

Friendship is not a contest! Besides, again it's only chance that their plans end up this way. Hermione needed to do this to protect her parents, while Ron didn't. It would hardly be a mark of Ron's friendship for him to force his family - who can play a real role in the war against Voldemort - abroad unnecessarily.

Ron saved Harry’s life, which earns him brownie points, but I’m still shocked at how quickly Harry forgave him. Fortunately, Hermione is not like that, and will give Ron what he had coming.

I disagree. Sure, he runs out on the quest, but you notice - he comes back. I believe Harry gives a quote somewhat like this about the Deluminator, that it was most important that he returned. And I thought that, while Hermione was justifiably angry (I certainly don't blame her), the better friend to Ron in this instance was Harry, who forgave Ron as soon as the opportunity came. Holding grudges and giving "what one has coming" isn't the right thing to do; Harry tried that in GoF (as you pointed out) and hurt himself as much as he hurt Ron. "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind." A burn for a burn leaves the whole world friendless.

Harry liked Hermione very much, but she just wasn’t the same as Ron. There was much less laughter and a lot more hanging around in the library when Hermione was your best friend.
(pp. 316-317)
This little excerpt says it all.

It certainly does - everything you don't understand about the trio's friendship. It isn't defined by what each does for each other - that would make friendship a mere bartering system. It's defined by an emotional/spiritual side beyond jealousy or judgement.

Friendship is not a contest.

[inkling7]

I agree with Member of Spew - friendship is not a contest and you can have several different kinds of friends as well. It just so happens that Harry preferred the comfortable easy going friendship he had with Ron to the practical useful friendship he had with Hermione. Harry loved them both in different ways and Hermione was more like an older sister to him. Remember he also had a great friendship with Ginny too which also happened to be romantic. But remember it was Ginny who took his hand and led him away from Albus' body in HBP and not Ron or Hermione or Hagrid (another close friend). It was Ginny who was the only one who could comfort him then. Harry had several close friends it seems and all for different reasons which is why they all meant a lot to him but not one of them was better than the other. As has been pointed out - friendship is not a contest - and never should be.

[mugglepants]

Someone is obviously not a Ron fan girl. While you obviously did your research before writing your editorial, I felt as though it wasn't really fair. Yeah, Hermione is helpful and useful, but just because she is a bit more clever doesn't mean she's better than Ron. And I don't see how being unconsicious in the hospital wing with a broken leg and therefore not able to save Sirius makes Ron any less of a friend. As for Ron's jealousy towards Harry in Goblet of Fire, the reasons behind it go much deaper than pure "Oh, he's famous I'm not." It's the fact that Ron is constantly living in the shadows of others. He is being constantly overshadowed by his five older brothers. So it doesn't help that once again, he is being overshadowed by his best friend. Its tough on him. Finally, It's not entirely fair to judge Ron's loyalty to Harry based on him leaving in Deathly Hallows. You sort of downplayed the influence of the Locket. Yeah, Harry and Hermione both wore it to. But while they only felt kind of gloomy and unhappy, Ron was completely tormented. The things he saw in the Locket when it was finally destroyed were playing through his head for those few hours when he had it on. Imagine having a voice buffet you for five hours, telling you that your friends don't like you and your parents hate you. It got to him, like it would get to any reasonable person. And why were you shocked that Harry forgave him? I mean, Ron had just saved Harry's life. If I was in a fight with a friend, but then they apologized and saved me from being strangled, I would forgive him. Anyways, both Ron and Hermione are loyal, true friends of Harry's. The story would be incomplete without both, so neither is less important or less loyal.

[_magic_freak_]

I have to admit I was disappointed with this editorial. Although I completely agree that Hermione's friendship with Harry did grow throughout the books, Ron will always be Harry's best friend. And I disagree with you saying that he doesn't deserve to be. I just have some comments on statements you made throughout the editorial. Some of these were said by others, but I spent forever typing this and I don't want to delete some of it now, so bear with me.

Sure, Ron envies Harry – who wouldn’t? But honestly, to just abandon him when he’s facing a potentially lethal tournament is not something a true friend does....Ron's [reaction] is quite the opposite of Hermione’s reaction, which is much calmer and rational.

Everyone has their flaws, and jealousy is Ron's biggest. He is poor, Harry is rich. Ron is overshadowed by his older brothers, while Harry is always the center of attention. Yes, he does have a family, he isn't destined to fight Voldemort like Harry is, but with Harry having all of these things that Ron wants so badly, its amazing that Ron made it this long without a major explosion towards Harry. This was what Ron needed in order to become more mature and I believe it actually made their friendship stronger. Knowing that they could work through major conflicts in their relationship gave them more strength as best friends. It is also important to note that while Ron didn't make any effort toward reconciling with Harry, Harry made no effort either. They both missed each other, but their pride prevented them from admitting it. As for Hermione's reaction, of course it was more calm and collected! Typically, Hermione is way more rational, especially compared to Ron's (and Harry's) impulsive nature and short fuse.

Ron displays his insensitivity toward Hermione, and then is extremely insensitive toward Padma at the ball because he’s busy being jealous of Viktor Krum. Again with the jealousy! And yet, at this point Harry still sides with Ron, albeit passively.

Ron is fourteen and has a major crush that he doesn't know what to do about. Boys at that age are not known for their sensitivity (Harry wasn't exactly a fabulous date either) and we as readers are already very familiar with Ron's issue with jealousy. The two combined explain Ron's behavior. Harry is able to stay on Ron's side because he empathizes with Ron - Harry knows what Ron is dealing with because of how he feels about Cho. Ron's major flaw adds to his behavior, but again, no character in the series is perfect - that's the beauty of the books! Harry's major flaw (his hero complex) has gotten him into worse trouble (Sirius) than Ron's insensitivity.

When he’s in the hospital wing at the end of the book, he believes Cedric’s death is his fault (typical Harry, blaming everything on himself). When he’s about to start crying (He could feel a burning, prickling feeling at the inner corners of his eyes.), He wished Ron would look away. (pg. 714). He’s more comfortable crying in front of Hermione, yet not in front of Ron, his usually preferred friend.

Very simple explanation for this - Ron is a guy. Hermione is a girl. I am a girl, and guy friends (who are not romantically interested in me) would rather cry in front of me than their guy friends. Guys as a general rule (and remember I am not a guy, so this is just my experience with them) want to be manly in front of their friends. Even their best friends. Harry is fourteen, dealing with first crushes and other things that happen at that age and doesn't want to feel like less of a man - he's already insecure enough! He's not a child anymore, and he's at that age when he thinks that grown men don't cry. If this situation happened in later books, he probably wouldn't have felt that way. As for Hermione, she is a girl and girls are usually much better with emotions than guys. Its important that Harry doesn't have any romantic feelings towards Hermione because if he did, the same desire to prove that he was man enough for her would apply. Since he doesn't, he is much more comfortable with Hermione there than Ron.

And Hermione, seemingly more than Ron, understands how Harry is feeling.

Hermione is much more emotionally inclined. That is to be expected.

Also, Hermione shows she’s not afraid of Harry’s temper, while Ron cowers whenever Harry starts yelling.

Ron loves Harry and wants to be friends. Although we never find out how he felt while he and Harry were fighting, it was probably similar to Harry's feelings at the time. That is still fresh in his mind and he does not want to repeat it.

And, Hermione catches on to Harry’s feelings for Cho much faster than Ron does.

Not to stereotype my gender, but, again, Hermione is a girl. Girls catch on to stuff like that faster than boys do.

After Harry kisses Cho, Hermione is the one who stands up for him when Ron starts to question Harry’s kissing ability. (pg. 458) This shows she actually cares about Harry’s feelings and realizes he’s probably not feeling very comfortable with the whole situation, while Ron just makes jokes at his expense.

Ron is joking, not realizing that Harry is uncomfortable because he is a guy and is not as tuned to emotions as Hermione. Since Ron and Harry both are more sarcastic, goofy people, Ron's reaction isn't as rude as it sounds in the editorial.

Hermione continues to excel as a friend, and gets Harry’s story to the public via The Quibbler. Ron, meanwhile, does precious little that is praise-worthy. It is Hermione who accompanies Harry when they are introduced to Grawp, which solidifies Hermione’s role as Harry’s sidekick.

It is no secret that Hermione is much cleverer than Harry or Ron, so that is why she comes up with the Quibbler idea. Being smarter doesn't make her a better friend. As for Grawp, Ron was playing Quidditch. He would've come if he could've.

"The Cruciatus Curse ought to loosen your tongue," said Umbridge quietly.
"No!" shrieked Hermione. "Professor Umbridge — it’s illegal!" […] "The minister wouldn’t want you to break the law, Professor Umbridge!" cried Hermione.
(pg. 746)
Hermione does everything in her power to dissuade Umbridge from torturing Harry. What does Ron do? Absolutely nothing. But when Umbridge won’t be dissuaded, Hermione is the one who ultimately saves Harry. She feeds Umbridge a cock-and-bull story about the weapon they made for Dumbledore, and then Harry and Hermione head off to the forest with Umbridge close behind. Hermione uses her ingenuity to get Umbridge carried off by centaurs, and they meet up with the rest of the gang.

This is a case of a passage being taken out of context. If you look a few pages earlier, on page 742, it says:
"There was a commotion outside and several large Slytherins entered, each gripping Ron, Ginny, Luna, and -- to Harry's bewilderment -- Neville, who was trapped in a stranglehold by Crabbe and looked in imminent danger of suffocation. All four of them had been gagged." (Emphasis mine)
How could protest? How could he help? He was trapped, presumably wandless, and unlike Hermione, was unable to speak. Even if he hadn't been gagged, he probably wouldn't have come up with such a clever plan (since, as I have already established, he is not as bright as Hermione), but he certainly would have protested the Cruciatus Curse and would've gone along with Hermione's plan.

Instead of just being on Ron’s side, Harry realizes he’s being immature, mean, and downright pathetic in his behavior towards Hermione.

Again, and I feel like a broken record here, but Ron is jealous! He has had a crush on the same girl for YEARS, and has not seen any evidence (in his mind - Hermione probably thinks she's dropped plenty of hints!) that she likes him back. So he goes for the one girl in his life that has paid him any obvious romantic attention. When Hermione starts acting jealous, Ron feels that she deserves to feel a bit of what he felt at the Yule Ball, and in his immaturity, he goes too far. This is a case of teenage love gone wrong. Ron is miserable the entire time. And, Hermione also goes with Cormac to Slughorn's party to make Ron jealous. So she isn't above these tactics either. Harry realizes that Ron has gone too far and knows that Hermione needs him more than Ron. That is not a sign that Hermione is a better friend, only that Harry knows how to choose which friend to be with at what time.

So let’s see how the sacrifices of Ron and Hermione compare with each other. Hermione has made her parents forget that she ever existed so she can go with Harry on his journey. Ron cooked up a comfortable plan with his family that will have the ghoul pretend to be him with spattergroit. All in all, I’d say Hermione’s sacrifice counts for more in this case.

Yes, Hermione did sacrifice more than Ron, but not because Ron wasn't willing to sacrifice more! His family lives in the wizarding world - they have jobs there (several in the Ministry where they were already being watched for their associations with Harry) and Ginny needs to be at school. Someone would notice if the entire Weasley family vanished and would be looked for. By comparison, Hermione's parents are Muggles. No one in the wizarding world would've noticed their disappearance. Also, Hermione's parents, being Muggles, have no way of defending themselves against wizards. The Weasleys are all magical and capable of defending themselves against Death Eaters if need be.

Hermione holds up reasonably well under the conditions, especially since she’s a girl and not really used to roughing it out. Ron, instead, acts like a spoiled brat. Ron and his family may be poor, but in many ways he is far better off than Harry and much more spoiled. He has been loved and sheltered all his life. He’s lived in a comfortable, if not extravagant, home.

Yes, but again, we have one of Ron's many faults - his temper and his immaturity. He is more volatile than Hermione ever was. Harry used to be like him, but has since matured. Ron has not had the big event needed to make him fully grow up. There is no denying he was the last of the trio to mature completely. His more pampered sheltered life meant that he did not have to mature as quickly as Harry, and as for Hermione, it is a commonly accepted fact that girls mature faster than guys. Hermione, being the type of girl she is, probably matured even faster than most girls.

This is a blanket statement for all comments about Ron's behavior prior to and after leaving Harry and Hermione during DH.
RON IS IMMATURE AND HAS A SHORT FUSE!!!! Harry has outgrown this by now so the horcrux doesn't affect him like it does Ron. Ron's jealousy drives him out because the woman he loves (yes, he really, truly LOVES her at this point) has made what he perceives (under the influence of the horcrux and its after-effects) as a choice for the person who has always beaten him and got everything he wanted. Ron is jealous, which is intensified by the horcrux and the strain of their situation. When he saves Harry after coming back, the event that he has needed to completely mature him has finally occurred. He has faced his worst fears: Harry, who has almost always gotten what Ron wanted (attention, girls, popularity), finally takes the one thing Ron does have: his mother’s love. Harry, who has almost always gotten what Ron wanted, takes Hermione, the girl he has loved for years. These are not lowly fears! These fears are close to Ron’s heart and he has always struggled with them. This editorial suggests that these fears are stupid, that they don’t matter, and that they are unreasonable. But aren’t many fears unreasonable? Cockroaches? Heights? Spiders? The dark? Most of these aren’t reasonable fears. What will the average cockroach do to you? Sitting in a window seat on a plane isn’t any more dangerous than driving on the highway. But Ron fears the loss of two people that he loves deeply to the man who has been his best friend for many years. While this may be unreasonable to us, to Ron, who is constantly bested by Harry, it is a completely reasonable fear. The fact that he finally conquers it matures him. In this moment, he realizes that his fears have been based on nothing, that he is worth something, and that he was wrong. Ron finally matures, getting over most of his jealousy and his temper.

But when I read one sentence, I just felt my jaw drop: Harry was glad that Ron was fighting back. I couldn’t believe this! After everything was said and done, after Ron betrayed him and Hermione stuck by him, after the incident at Godric’s Hollow, after six and a half years of unwavering loyalty and support from Hermione, Harry still sided with Ron.

This part is very simple – Harry saw what Ron faced. He saw what Ron did. I don’t think Harry ever realized the extent of Ron’s fears until that moment. And seeing that and seeing him best that made Harry realize why Ron did what he did. The important thing throughout DH is that RON CAME BACK!!!!! That took more strength than anyone could imagine. And that is why Harry forgave him and wanted him to fight back. He knew how much Ron wanted Hermione and knew that he had to fight to get back on her good side.

So now that the trio is reunited, let’s take a look at what Ron’s priorities are. No, they’re not helping his best friend stay alive, or vanquishing the ultimate evil in the world (Lord Voldemort, for those who haven’t been paying attention). It’s sucking up to Hermione so as to get back in his crush’s good books.

He works to get back in Hermione’s good graces by agreeing with everything she says. He makes himself look stupid, but just because he has finally matured completely doesn’t mean he understands women. And her ideas aren’t bad ones – so it isn’t a bad thing that he agrees with her. That doesn’t change his priorities, however when something on the path to defeating Voldemort can also help him get back in Hermione’s “good books” then he takes that opportunity. Like I said, he doesn’t agree with any bad ideas.

And so, our reflection on the friendships between Harry and his two best friends ends. I could delve further into Ron’s character to show just why I lost faith in him, but I think the dynamics between the trio say all there is to say. However, we must then ask ourselves why Harry still considers Ron his best friend, above Hermione? I think the answer is perfectly clear: they’re both guys, and are both less serious than Hermione. So Ron ends up being Harry’s best friend, despite everything.

That is exactly it. Hermione may be cleverer and more emotionally tuned than Ron, but Ron and Harry have more in common. And even though Hermione is smarter doesn’t mean she’s a better friend. She doesn’t hang out with Harry like Ron does, she doesn’t goof off with Harry like Ron does, and she doesn’t play Quidditch like Ron does. Ron and Harry have a lot in common, that is why they are friends.

I think that this editorial made a very good argument as to why Hermione is smarter and more mature than Ron. But we all knew that already. That does not make her a better best friend to Harry than Ron Weasley.

[cgold]

As someone said, Friendship is not a contest. A lot of people in Harry Potter fandom have never gotten that and I've given up trying to explain a concept that you have to live to understand. I've felt from book 1-6 that Ron was the truer friend although Hermione's friendship was very deep and sincere. However, after Deathly Hallows, I think their friendship is on the same level.

Ron and Hermione are equally as true to Harry in my opinion. Ron was always insecure and susceptible to stuff like the locket so I don't think of that but Hermione really stepped up in Deathly Hallows to prove herself where she hadn't really before. She's never given the impression that she would die for Harry which I think has always held me back from thinking of her as a true a friend as Ron. Since book 1 Ron has shown his willingness to die for Harry. Hermione showed that a lot in Book 7 so she's definitely on equal footing now, in my opinion.

Cheers

[bigbirdbanana]

Originally Posted by mugglepants

As for Ron's jealousy towards Harry in Goblet of Fire, the reasons behind it go much deaper than pure "Oh, he's famous I'm not." It's the fact that Ron is constantly living in the shadows of others. He is being constantly overshadowed by his five older brothers. So it doesn't help that once again, he is being overshadowed by his best friend. Its tough on him. Finally, It's not entirely fair to judge Ron's loyalty to Harry based on him leaving in Deathly Hallows. You sort of downplayed the influence of the Locket. Yeah, Harry and Hermione both wore it to. But while they only felt kind of gloomy and unhappy, Ron was completely tormented. The things he saw in the Locket when it was finally destroyed were playing through his head for those few hours when he had it on. Imagine having a voice buffet you for five hours, telling you that your friends don't like you and your parents hate you.

Think about it. 2 of his older brothers had been Headboy, another one had been Quidditch Captain and the other 2 had a successful business. Then there was his younger sister who was very popular. And beyond his family there was Harry who always got everything and he feared that his parents prefered Harry as a son to himself. Then his other best friend (and love interest) Hermione, always outshone him in everything academic or to do with quick-thinking.

All in all i think that everything was summed up very well by _magic_freak_ and i completely agree with him/her. Friendship is not necessarily based on what a person can do for you or even how loyal they are to you - it is based on common interests.

[Mad_Druid]

I think that this Editorial is very biased. The author seeemed to relish the chance to bash Ron at every opportunity.
I agree with everything that _magic_freak_ said.

[hpboy13]

Oy vey! Looks like I got in over my head going against Ron, who I know is a very popular character (where are you, Harmony and Dramione shippers?! I need you!). Anyway, let me say this now before I get any more similar comments: I KNOW FRIENDSHIP ISN'T A CONTEST. Did I ever say it was? I'm analyzing from afar and looking at who appears ot be the better friend, I said nothing to suggest they should compete for Harry's friendship. Member_of_SPEW, I fully realize that the Trio's friendship isn't a bartering system. But I see nothing wrong with analyzing the individual friendships between members and how they compare with each other. And Mad_Druid, yes this editorial is biased. I think we're all well aware of that.

Okay, first off, to all the people who are exclaiming as to how I say Hermioen accompanies Harry during so-and-so while Ron's injured/playing Quidditch/etc. I never said Ron sould have accompanied Harry. I am using these examples to point out Harry and Hermione's friendship, Ron for ht emoment is out fo the picture. Believe it or not, this editorial isn't all about Ron-bashing (though I was tempted).

Second, all the excuses being made for Ron that he's a guy and immature/not in tune with his emotions/etc. Let me just say that I'm a 15-year-old guy, so frankly, I don't sympathize. I had one close guy friend, and I had no problem crying in front of him. And Harry has never exactly striven to be macho-macho-man. I don't mock my friends after they've had a confusing romantic experience. And guys, however clueless, shoudl notice their best friend's obsessive crush of two years.

Yes, Ron is less smart. Yes, he has limited resources. But the fact remains that Hermione does infinitely more for Harry during OotP than Ron does. I'm nto condemnign Ron in these instances, I'm merely pointing out the difference. And yes he's jealous. He has good reason to be. That's why I continued to like him after GoF (believe it or not, Ron was one of my fave characters until DH). But to let his jealousy get the better of him like he did in DH, to abandon his friends in their darkest hour, that is not so easily forgiven. If I was on the run in a desperate attempt to survive and my best friend decided to up and leave (and try to take my other best friend with her), I wouldn't forgive her that easily.

Well, it's clear that my editorial had the misfortune of running into Ron fangirls. I am truly sorry if you were disappointed, since editorials are as rare as good HP movies on Mugglenet now and this is the first new one in exactly a month and only like the 8th one since DH came out. However, I'll keep writing them, and boycott if you wish. Right-o, now where's my backup of Harmony and Dramione shippers?

[Mad_Druid]

Originally Posted by hpboy13

And Mad_Druid, yes this editorial is biased. I think we're all well aware of that.

I just happen to consider a well written editorial one that is unbiased.

[inkling7]

I think I'm a little old to be a Ron fangirl but being mature think I can see Ron in an unbiased way and I do remember knowing lots of young teenagers rather like Ron and Harry as the other posters seem to have done. So please don't label us all as Ron fangirls an accept any criticism with grace. Your editorial was well-researched but you lost the plot a little with your defining of the friendships Harry had with Ron and Hermione. They were different types of friendships.

Ron might have had to compete with accomplished siblings and friends but did have his talents too. Think the chess game in book one, think opening the Chamber by speaking parsletongue in book seven and other heroic deeds in between. He was as essential to the trio as Harry and Hermoine were - they were a team but Ron had the misfortune to feel the most insecure of the trio. Anyone would be with the middle name of Bilius - think bilious - poor sod.

As I said before you can have different types of close friends without one being less important than the other. It just so happens that Harry thought Ron was his best friend most of the time and that his his prerogative.

[MintorateOishii]

This has nothing to do with being a Ron fangirl. You simply overlooked a lot about friendship and people in general. Try re-reading some of the criticisms of your argument and really think about them some.

You say you don't think friendship is a contest, but the very topic of the editorial and your tone throughout it all but state that idea.

You don't find Ron's leaving them forgivable? That probably has a lot to do with the fact that you aren't his friend (so you don't see the benefit of forgiving him), and I'm guessing you've never been in a real situation where a friend has hurt you and apologized. Or even better yet, you've never hurt a friend. Ron made a mistake, and he owned up to it. If he hadn't come back, it would have been unforgivable. But he did come back. Why would Harry and Hermione want to end their friendship with him when he's apologized (in both actions -i.e. coming back - and literal words)? If your close friend let you down, but then realized his mistake, would you just end that friendship? If a person feels bad about it and learned their lesson, why add salt to the wound and lose a friend completely?

The fact that you can cry in front of guy friends has nothing to do with Harry and Ron's friendship. Lots of guys do have this hang-up, maybe not out of machoness, but just out of a lack of sentimentality. Neither Ron nor Harry (at this point) are very emotionally mature, either, so of course Harry would be embarrassed to show feelings of that kind in front of Ron (and vice versa). This doesn't mean they're not best friends. It might mean just the opposite.

Also, just because you don't joke with your friends about romantic mishaps doesn't mean people who do are bad. I personally thought that scene was rather funny and true-to-life. Of course Ron will joke. As we have seen from that quote about laughing less when Hermione is your best friend, that's something that Harry values in Ron.

Finally, like I said, this has nothing to do with Ron fangirls, and I find it a bit insulting that you would toss people's thought-out critiques of your editorial as being nothing more than crazy fangirl loyalty. In fact, I didn't get the vibe of Ron fangirlishness from any of the replies. They pointed out legitimate flaws in your argument and your lack of understanding (as shown in the article) of the characters and the nature friendship.

[wandlessmagic]

Being a solid friend, or loyal, doesn't make someone a best friend. It's more about how the two characters are able to relate, how they spend time together and how much they depend on each other.

Ron is Harry's best friend because they can relate in ways that Harry and Hermione will never be able to. It was shown in Book4 and Book7 that when Harry and Hermione only have each others company things are very boring, tense and Harry gets frustrated with Hermione.

Harry even tells Ron how important he is, and how miserable Harry and Hermione have been without him.

Ron is the ever-important glue that sticks the trio together, that makes things fun and makes tough times more bearable. Without Ron their Horcrux Hunt stopped.

So yes, maybe Hermione has been a more stable and reliable friend to Harry, but that by no means makes her a closer friend to Harry. Ron has plenty of other qualities that make Harry and Ron best friends.

Ron is someone Harry generally has felt more comfortable to confide in, and being guys they have spent some good times together that Hermione could never share. Hermione tends to look down onto them and criticise, and is a lot like a mother. Harry feels that Ron is more on his level.

I really don't think that there should really be an argument about this. Ron is Harry's best friend, and that's the way things have always been. Just because Hermione may have certain qualities that Ron lacks doesn't mean she will ever be able to take Ron's place.

[Liselle]

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Please keep criticisms constructive everyone

[Oceania]

I think it was a good, well researched editorial, though I was less impressed with the passive-aggressive tendencies of obvious dislike towards Ron. I think you may have lessened the validity of your editorial by leaning on Ron so heavily. I'm not a Ron fangirl myself---my faves are Dumbledore, Snape, and Hermione actually. I think it may have been a mistake to label those who disagreed with you as "Ron fangirls". We all respond to criticism differently, and while some of the replies may have indeed been made by Ron "fangirls/boys", I am sure that most were not. I think readers just may have been turned off by the way you presented the friendship---as a series of deeds stacking up to which friend did "more". Of course, friendship doesn't work that way, so I am thinking many readers thought it was an unfair comparison.

HOWEVER---editorials are biased. That's what editorials are; they are opinions. And even though the way you presented the piece wasn't liked by all, you did an efficient job in comparing Ron and Hermione...even if it was mostly on deeds. I absolutely agree with you that Hermione was the "better" friend in Deathly Hallows. She was better prepared for their journey, and abandoning Harry never crossed her mind, no matter how tired, terrified, or frustrated she got. When Ron abandoned them, it was a total act of betrayal. A forgiveable act (especially considering he came back and saved Harry's life), but an act of betrayal nonetheless. I too, thought Harry forgave him too quickly and easily to be realistic. However, in such dire circumstances, I think forgiveness and unity are the way to go. I think Harry realized this, too. When you get in a situation where one or all of you could concievably die at any moment, holding grudges and hatred is never a smart idea. And I do believe the friendships balanced out. Throughout the series, Hermione was helpeful, resourceful, brilliant, sensitive and caring. Ron was fun, brave, fierce, passionate, fiery, exciting and very loyal...not because of his jealousy and betrayals...but IN SPITE of them.

In the end, they are equal. And love was all that mattered. I did quite enjoy your editorial though. I really did.

[Taure]

I just happen to consider a well written editorial one that is unbiased.

An unbiased editorial wouldn't be an editorial at all: it'd be a list of facts. As soon as you state an opinion or cast a judgement, you have become biased.

That's just what this editorial does: it states an opinion - that Ron is a worse friend than Hermione - and backs it up by bringing to the readers attention all the situations where Ron has failed Harry.

To those saying that "friendship isn't a contest" and that friendship isn't about "what you can do for people": I don't think you have a very good idea about what friendship is.

If a person consistently betrays you, argues with you, chooses others over you, does not take you seriously, hampers your personal development, mocks you, does not support you when you're down, is jealous of you, and exists solely to provide occasional comedic relief, then this person is not a friend.

This is what Ron does.

[Strider62442]

I agree that most in the editorial is true to what happened in the books, but I've got to say that this aspect of the books was something that was most disapointing to me. I think JKR got a little unoriginal in HBP and DH falling back on the Ron flaws. I think she established Hermione's flaws in PoA and OotP but only subtly and and she never really laid them on the table for a moment when Hermione would get a really shameful moment.

In prisoner of Azkaban we see Hermione deal with her perfectionist instincts, a problem that really only lasts through that book. Once she drops a couple of classes and gives up on the time turner, she seems to have come to terms with not having to be perfect. But another theme is also introduced in that book through the introduction of professor trelawney; the conflict between reason and the mystical. In PoA Hermione and grounding in reason get the clear upper hand. Trelawney is an old fraud. But there is one part where it is clear that Hermione was sceptical, logical and still wrong- the prophecy trelawney gave in front of Harry during his final exam. She scoffs at this too, into the next book, but we know and Harry knows that there is no logical explanation for it.

This theme doesnt come back until OotP. I dont agree with the golden assesment given of Hermione in OotP in this editorial. Sure, she demonstrates loyalty, sacrifice etc. But it was also again hinted that Hermione is in her own way closed minded, this time through the introduction of Luna. Once again, while most of what Luna comes out with is absurd, Luna demonstrates a certain wisdom that Hermione could never when Harry talks to her about death at the end of the book. Hermione's insistent, even hysterical, "there is no in there!" about the veil is a pointed moment. My reaction to that was "thats what voldemort would say too.". How could a person who is trained in MAGIC shut themselves out to such things as the possibility that some magic can't be seen or proven?

Hermione's closed mindedness doesnt surface again until the second half of DH when they go to Lovegood's house and learn of the Deathly Hallows. Hermione's insistance, almost contemptuous insistence that a resurection stone "cant possibly be real" is very simalar to her reaction to the veil. When Dumbledore explains how he wanted Harry to possess the hallows safely and that he was counting on Hermione to slow him up, he's not necessarily saying anything kindly about Hermione. Remember, we discovered the minipulative side of Dumbledore in this book. I see more like him knowing her closed mindedness and banking on her to react so violently to the possibility of the Hallows. He didnt necessarily see her as a voice of wisdom, he was using her. He gave out the things in his will based on what he knew about the person. He knew Ron and his flaws and gave him a way to come back (he knew ron would have the strenth to come back in the end ) if those flaws led him astray. So he knew Hermione's strength in that he knew she would stop at nothing to decipher the meaning hidden in the book, and also that her closed mindedness would lead her to dismiss that meaning as rediculous and slow Harry down.

This is a very subtly done slap to Hermione by JKR. It comes to its final culmination when Harry's unravelling of Dumbledore's eventual intentions early on prove to be accurate later on. That Stone was real. But Harry never gets an "I told you so" moment like is gleefully described when Hermione beats up Ron when he comes back. I suppose you could consider all the events of the last 75 or so pages of the book to be Harry's revenge on all the charecters of little faith. How the final battle went down struck me as a vindication of all of Harry's core values and proof that other worthy and supposedly wise people, did not have the same strength. Lupin was annoying to the point of being pathetic with his "dont use expellarmus!" tirade. Hermione was the same with her demonstrations of her unique form of being closed minded.

So when it comes to Harry's friends I'd say that there is a subtle rebuke of Hermione that if seen is just as important as the ones dealt to Ron. I think it was too subtle and that few have realized its there and that the imbalance is one of the only flaws in the series. I don't believe that it was JKR's intention to give Hermione any kind of edge. I think DH itself is somewhat balanced in its treatment of Harry's friends. Peoples flaws are a key aspect of the that book. Dumbledore, Lupin, Ron, Hermione, Xeno Lovegood, Snape. She was trying to show that people are a composite of things. With Ron and Hermione she was I think just too overt with Ron's flaws and too subtle with Hermione's.

[Aldawen]

A discussion of the Trio's relationships -- Harry and Ron, Harry and Hermione, Ron and Hermione -- is definitely interesting, but I feel like this editorial has leeched the depth and color out of them. All three of them have their failings, and they all do things that jeopardize their friendship, but the important part is that they always come around in the end. A more effective analysis would have moved away from the "who's better" line and focused instead on the group dynamic -- let's not forget that Harry is a part of the Trio as well. Friendship isn't always about being nice and making sacrifices for each other. Realistically, the best of friends fight and do hurtful things to one another, but they love each other enough to get through it. That's exactly what the Trio illustrates. The editorial neglects to mention the fact that, despite Ron's being a "spoiled brat" and an all-around terrible friend (according to this piece), Hermione marries him, and he an Harry remain best friends -- brothers, really -- for the rest of their lives. Ron and Hermione are both willing to follow their friend to the end, and Harry would certainly do the same for them if their roles were reversed. Whoever wrote this seems to have quite a lot of anti-Ron sentiment to the point that he/she doesn't really analyze his and Hermione's behavior (or Harry's to provoke it) and instead simply lists the negative aspects of Ron's character. The writer even makes fun of some of the possible reasons for Ron's actions:

Basically, Ron’s afraid that his mother loves Harry better than him. (For Merlin’s sake, this is Molly Weasley! There’s enough love to go around!).

This is extremely counter-productive, IMO. To make such claims, one really must back them up with some thorough analysis.

In response to Strider62442's comment on Hermione's flaws, I disagree that Jo was very subtle about them. Afterall, she is introduced as a terribly bossy and irritating character, and though we see her mature in SS and beyond, she retains some of these characteristics that were so off-putting in the beginning. She's an extremely loyal friend, but she is close-minded. She's brilliant, but she can't see what's right in front of her face. Her relationship with Harry was never as volatile as hers with Ron, so we don't see as much tension between the two of them, but I found it really telling in DH that she refused to even consider the possibility of the Deathly Hallows, despite the fact that she held the clues in her hands. She can be very judgmental; look at how she treats Luna, Fleur, Trelawney, Xenophilius, and many others. She (and Ron) both thought they knew better than Harry in HBP, but Malfoy led Death Eaters into Hogwarts and Dumbledore got killed. I think Hermione is much more open with her flaws than Ron is, at least in the way that Harry perceives them. Hermione's failings are readily visible from the very beginning, but Ron keeps so much bottled it that when he breaks, it's in a big way. Don't get me wrong, I adore the both of them. My point is that they are well balanced in terms of strengths and weaknesses.

[mir]

The editorial was interesting but it will be unfair to decide who's Harry's truest friend. Both, Ron and Hermione, had their faults but both helped Harry the same. And most importantly, Harry trusted them both.