Quoting AR385 (Reply 99): Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 98): And put it under 64 year old sugar daddy? Don´t flatter yourself.

64 is the new 44.  

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 13): Same as North Carolina?

They brought that one themselves but continuing to park in his sport, I don't see religion as a motivating factor in this incident, they could have been of any religion and they would still be dead.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 101):

First i was not referring to any religion, but to isolated incident.
Second you keep on saying it was the murderer parking spot, how do you know that?

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 102): Second you keep on saying it was the murderer parking spot, how do you know that?

My understanding is that it was about the visitor parking spot(s).

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 101):

According to the circumstances surrounding this case and the information given out so far, definitely sounds like an issue related to religion. Neither of us can say for sure though until there is further investigation.

2 men have been arrested and initially remanded for 10 days, charged with providing the weapons and shelter to the 22-year old alleged assailant.

It's also been revealed that the alleged assailant was released from jail on January 30, having served out a sentence for stabbing another person on a commuter train.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 88): yes they belong wherever they wish to belong.

When in Rome do as the Romans do. If they truly wish to belong here they should show some respect to our traditions and culture. If I went to almost any Muslim country and drunk alcohol publicly, smoked cigarettes and criticized Islam I surely wouldn't be a free man for long.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 74): CNN just reported that flowers are being left at the site of the shooting death of the gunman.

Do you have a link?

Possibly mis-reporting? Flowers most certainly laid at site of cafe shooting and synagogue, as reported by most media.

Now there's a new book about to be released by a Danish author describing the prophets' sex life and his alcohol habits.

http://nyhederne.tv2.dk/2015-02-16-m...bog-terrorhandlinger-aendrer-intet

Hmm...

Quoting pvjin (Reply 106): If I went to almost any Muslim country and drunk alcohol publicly, smoked cigarettes

Some Muslim countries do allow drinking, Dubai, Egypt, Syria, Malaysia Etc.....
Smoking? Really? News to me, never heard it is forbidden unless it's during the fasting time in Ramadan.

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 108): Now there's a new book about to be released by a Danish author describing the prophets' sex life and his alcohol habits.

I am sure he has excellent sources   
Anyhow the article is in Danish.

[Edited 2015-02-16 05:32:20]

Quoting ElanusNotatus (Reply 83): But what people in the West insist on being freedom of speech is not simple paintings or murals showing, for example, the Messenger seated and talking to his circle, or on al-Buraq making the journey to al-Quds. No, what they insist on is their right to publish deliberately insulting material, for example depicting the Messenger as a porn star. Now, that does not justify anyone being killed but I do wonder why so many people believe that the essential criterion for a civilised society is the right to go out of one's way to deliberately and generally insult others. What is lacking in the lives of people who demand the right to abuse others? Everyone can be critical of Islam or any other belief system but why is it necessary to resort to schoolboy crudities whose main purpose is not to educate but to offend? Is it because of a weak intellect and an inability to present a coherent argument?

Of course when we're talking about freedom of speech, we're not thinking about people discussing the weather, although that too is covered.

The Catholic church was part of the French state for millenia, until it wasn't. That didn't come without lots of caricatures, for example :



Other actions included having banquets on Good Friday to eat all that is banned by the church.

When you don't do that, the result is evident : in Germany dance clubs are closed on Good Friday, by law.

If you let religion dictate what is offensive, soon enough any criticism of religion is offensive. Then children are brought up without knowing that not being religious is an option. I'd say the US is a pretty good example of that phenomenon, much more religious than it should be, because most people don't dare criticize religion.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 92): Tall, curly hair usually, and a particular tan to the skin.

Perfectly describes my best friend, whose father is French (and grandparents, etc.) and mother Brazilian. In fact many French, Italian, Spaniards, Portuguese, etc., would fit that description, with no modern link to anything "Arab".

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 92): Maybe normal europeans need to be armed themselves. Gun control laws in europe?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 94): But wait a minute. Most European nations have very strict gun control. Therefore they have nothing to worry about...

You can have that debate elsewhere, in Europe we don't think more guns will help, unless they're in the hands of police and military that is. As far as I know you regularly have lone wolf gunmen attacks in the US, and it rarely ends with only one dead (two if you count the attacker).

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 102): Second you keep on saying it was the murderer parking spot, how do you know that?

Because the reports which aren't blowing up the muslim angle are pointing to what I think is the real reason, these people kept on parking in the wrong space, which ended up costing them their lives.

Quoting SFBdude (Reply 104): According to the circumstances surrounding this case and the information given out so far, definitely sounds like an issue related to religion.

It makes for a much more interesting story if religion is the cause, rather than a mundane shooting over a parking space.

At least the Danes did the right thing and shot the guy, unlike in Norway where we have to put up with weekly news stories about ABB.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 110): You can have that debate elsewhere, in Europe we don't think more guns will help, unless they're in the hands of police and military that is. As far as I know you regularly have lone wolf gunmen attacks in the US, and it rarely ends with only one dead (two if you count the attacker).

Plus illegal guns are readily available for those with connections to the criminal underworld (as the killers in both Paris and Copenhagen had).

I think that maybe it would make sense to isolate imprisoned Islamists from other convicts, so that they can't use the prison to spread their messages.

Jan

Quoting pvjin (Reply 106): If I went to almost any Muslim country and drunk alcohol publicly, smoked cigarettes and criticized Islam I surely wouldn't be a free man for long.

Smoking - it's almost compulsory in most Middle East countries.

Drink - in reality, there are only a handful of 'Muslim countries' where it's not possible to get a drink. I've lived and worked all over the ME and North Africa, the only places where I haven't been able to openly buy a drink were Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. In Bahrain, Qatar, UAE, Oman, Lybia and Algeria, I never had a problem getting a drink. Indeed, many 'Muslim countries' produce their own beer and wine.

Criticising Islam - well, that wouldn't be too smart in most places. I don't condone or defend it, but sometimes you just have to accept that you are the visitor.

Quoting md11engineer (Reply 112): I think that maybe it would make sense to isolate imprisoned Islamists from other convicts, so that they can't use the prison to spread their messages.

It would, but I wouldn't be surprised if that infringed their human rights.   

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 63): Must liberals I know feel that one of the reasons that there is militant Islam is because of the long history of Western meddling with that part of the world. I would ask those liberals to consider that the Muslim Dark Ages pre-date Western meddling.

Wow, we are agreeing on too much. It's disturbing.

Meanwhile in Germany...

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ny-canceled-terror-threat-28979787

Police in the German city of Braunschweig cancelled a popular Carnival street parade on Sunday because of fears of an imminent Islamist terror attack... Geese said the parade was canceled less than 90 minutes before its scheduled start and that "many people arriving at the train station from out of town were already dressed up and very disappointed -- but we didn't want to take any risks." Braunschweig's Carnival parade is the biggest one in northern Germany and draws around 250,000 visitors each year.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 114): Wow, we are agreeing on too much. It's disturbing.

You guys should buy each other drinks.  

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 114): Police in the German city of Braunschweig cancelled a popular Carnival street parade on Sunday because of fears of an imminent Islamist terror attack... Geese said the parade was canceled less than 90 minutes before its scheduled start and that "many people arriving at the train station from out of town were already dressed up and very disappointed -- but we didn't want to take any risks." Braunschweig's Carnival parade is the biggest one in northern Germany and draws around 250,000 visitors each year.

Really sad.
A friend of mine in Germany was telling me that she was looking forward to going to this event 2 weeks ago.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 113): Quoting md11engineer (Reply 112): I think that maybe it would make sense to isolate imprisoned Islamists from other convicts, so that they can't use the prison to spread their messages. It would, but I wouldn't be surprised if that infringed their human rights.

Well, we kept the communist terrorists isolated from the rest of the prison population for a large part of the 1970s, I think you did the same with the captured Irish terrorists (both Provos and Prods).
Of course, it played a bit into their hand, as they always wanted to be considered prisoners of war and not ordinary criminals.

As for the parade in Braunschweig, while I understand that the mayor and the police don't want a massacre on their watch, I think it sent the wrong signal. The response should have been a two fingered inverted victory salute (the Brits here will understand) and a "Jetzt erst recht!". This way it looks as if we are giving in to threats.

Jan

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 114): Police in the German city of Braunschweig cancelled a popular Carnival street parade on Sunday because of fears of an imminent Islamist terror attack... Geese said the parade was canceled less than 90 minutes before its scheduled start and that "many people arriving at the train station from out of town were already dressed up and very disappointed -- but we didn't want to take any risks." Braunschweig's Carnival parade is the biggest one in northern Germany and draws around 250,000 visitors each year.

Sad, when you start doing crap like this they win, I would have gone ahead with the parade and damn the consequences, chances are nothing was going to happen anyway.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 107): Do you have a link? Possibly mis-reporting? Flowers most certainly laid at site of cafe shooting and synagogue, as reported by most media.

Sadly it wasn't misreporting. A few misguided individuals put flowers and candles at the site where the culprit met his end. Not for long though; leading Muslim 'officials' went to the area and removed the flowers and candles, saying it that a) placing flowers at the site of the death of a Muslim is not done and b) celebrating a killer in this way is against Islamic teachings.

Here's the link:

http://ekstrabladet.dk/112/kaempe-dr...il-terrormistaenkt-fjernet/5445518

Also provides you with an opportunity to brush up on your Danish.

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 108): Now there's a new book about to be released by a Danish author describing the prophets' sex life and his alcohol habits. http://nyhederne.tv2.dk/2015-02-16-m...bog-terrorhandlinger-aendrer-intet Hmm...

I think we should just flood the media with these depictions until these attacks stop. We have artists depicting urination against Christian objects here and nobody is getting killed because of it.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 109): Smoking? Really? News to me, never heard it is forbidden unless it's during the fasting time in Ramadan.

Coming soon to your country. ISIS has banned smoking in their caliphate and recently publicized the beheading of one of their own because of it.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 119): Coming soon to your country

Thank you for your early warning, but it will not happen, unless you care to tell us if you know something the rest of the world doesn't, and your sources.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 114): Wow, we are agreeing on too much. It's disturbing.

I don't like it. It makes me feel funny. I'm going to tell my mommy that you're making me feel funny.  

Quoting mham001 (Reply 119): ISIS has banned smoking in their caliphate and recently publicized the beheading of one of their own because of it.

That's odd, but confirmed.

http://www.ibtimes.com/isis-beheads-...-slow-suicide-under-sharia-1815192

As for the carnival parades in Germany (especially in the Catholic regions), they have always been the opportunity to lampoon the authorities, politicians and religions.
Both in Düsseldorf and Cologne there were floats relating to freedom of speech and one float in Düsseldorf made a direct reference to the Charlie Hebdo attacks.

As for Braunschweig, I think, while it would have taken away a bit of the fun by having e.g. a battalion of police with submachine guns standing ready in the crowd, it would have sent a strong signal the we won't be intimidated.

Jan

Edit:
The parades also included floats making fun of the bad state of the German military and our minister of defence, Ms. von der Leyen, as well as the hypocrisy of the Catholic church in sexual matters.

[Edited 2015-02-16 10:15:46]

[Edited 2015-02-16 10:16:27]

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 117):

Bingo! You can't stop living because some nut jobs want you to live in fear.

Besides, these sickos would probably rather blow up a hospital full of babies than do something at a parade.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 119): ISIS has banned smoking in their caliphate

The silver lining to the ISIS dark cloud.

From Emmanuel Chaunu of newspaper Ouest France:



[Edited 2015-02-16 13:04:33]

Quoting DDR (Reply 124):

I think we should just get rid of the nutjobs and have both freedom and peace. We should treat all radical Muslims like terrorists.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 127):

All radical Muslims are terrorists. If not today, tomorrow.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 90):

That is my point, security there and he walks up to where he can blast off multiple shots into the building and then walks or runs away to shoot and kill again. Bum security to me. Where were the snipers?

Quoting scbriml (Reply 107):

That may have been an error in reporting, or heaven forbid, my error.   

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 129): That is my point, security there and he walks up to where he can blast off multiple shots into the building and then walks or runs away to shoot and kill again. Bum security to me. Where were the snipers?

I can't answer why he got away but he was not able to reach his target. Security did their job. Snipers in Copenhagen for a low-key cafe appearance?

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 129): Where were the snipers?

I think that's a little over the top don't you.

And is simply not feasible to have snipers stationed everywhere, can you imagine the man power involved and the cost.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 129): Bum security to me.

Nothing is perfect in life.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 131): Snipers in Copenhagen for a low-key cafe appearance?

Agree, its just not possible to cover everything all the time. Banks dont have snipers stationed outside, and they get held up every day of the week, so do money transferring trucks.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 131): I can't answer why he got away but he was not able to reach his target.

Probably the same way the guys in Paris got away. Cause enough mayhem and pandemonium and its easy to slip away in the ensuing chaos.

Maybe this link can bring this thread back on topic and away from funny guessing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Copenhagen_shootings

And yes, I know it is Wiki, but I have checked it - it is 100% correct.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 106): If I went to almost any Muslim country and drunk alcohol publicly, smoked cigarettes

I have drunk wine and spirits in Malaysia, Morocco, Egypt, Jordan, Turkey and the UAE in public. The wine that I drank in Jordan was a rather pleasant local product and some of the Turkish spirits have a punch. Even in countries where Muslims are "not allowed" to drink expatriates and visitors are often accommodated. For example, Yemen allows foreigners to bring in two bottles of alcohol for private consumption.

As to smoking, well ... Turkey and some other predominantly Muslim regions have been producing tobacco for decades. I haven't noticed that the hookah or shisha has disappeared in the Middle East, nor rolled or manufactured cigarettes. In some parts of the Middle East smoking in public places is banned, not on religious grounds but on health grounds, just like here in Perth.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 127): I think we should just get rid of the nutjobs and have both freedom and peace. We should treat all radical Muslims like terrorists.

Who defines "nutjobs" and what is meant by "radical"? Is "radical" synonymous with "advocating violence"? If so, is all violence "radical" and, by extension, "terrorist"? Is expressing an opinion considered "free speech" if it only coincides with mainstream views and that a "nutjob" is a "terrorist" simply because, according to some, he is "radical". And if you permit crminalising "all radical Muslims", where do you draw the line when it comes to radical views expressed by other groups. Bear in mind that at point point, views such as votes for women, same-sex marriage, an end to disability discrimination were all considered "radical".

We already have enough laws to permit observation and tracking of criminal suspects. The police have powers to arrest those who are planning to carry out, or have carried out, criminal offences. There will be times that it is not possible to, prevent a crime being committed, just like you can't prevent every single murder that is not terrorist related. But our response should not be to criminalise an entire community simply because we don't like what some of that community says.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 130): Quoting scbriml (Reply 107): That may have been an error in reporting, or heaven forbid, my error.

No WarRI1, your quote of CNN reporting was correct. CNN was correct, you were correct.

Quoting ElanusNotatus (Reply 134): We already have enough laws to permit observation and tracking of criminal suspects. The police have powers to arrest those who are planning to carry out, or have carried out, criminal offences. There will be times that it is not possible to, prevent a crime being committed, just like you can't prevent every single murder that is not terrorist related. But our response should not be to criminalise an entire community simply because we don't like what some of that community says.

Only way to effectively fight against this problem are restricting immigration from poor Muslim countries & making life as difficult as possible for radicals. Radicalization is a direct result of Europe's failed immigration policies, there are simply way too many unemployed, badly educated Muslims with little connection to mainstream population and culture. And who is a Muslim radical? Well, someone who thinks his religion should be exempt from criticism and mockery, someone who wants sharia to Europe, someone who hates Jews and approves terrorism. Of course radicals with other ideological backgrounds should be treated the same if they too promote violence, hate and intolerance.

Currently we are simply fighting against the symptom, radicalization, not against the actual cause behind the radicalization. That cause is a long history of failed immigration policy.

So, restrict immigration from troublesome countries so that only those who have something to offer (higher education for example) are let in. Ship illegals straight back to their country of origin when caught. Make it easier to deport immigrants and revoke their nationality if they have been found guilty of serious crimes.

Until we do this the comedy will continue, every time a terrorist attack occurs toothless Europeans will say some strong words against the attack, perhaps march for freedom of speech, the media will make good money from sensational articles and then continue as if everything is fine. Only in Europe.

[Edited 2015-02-17 01:55:17]

Quoting pvjin (Reply 136): restricting immigration from poor Muslim countries

Good luck being able to draft an immigration policy based on that, especially within the European Union. The UK, a country not even in the Schengen zone, can't deport some violent and known terrorists due to human rights laws.

Quoting elite (Reply 137): Good luck being able to draft an immigration policy based on that, especially within the European Union. The UK, a country not even in the Schengen zone, can't deport some violent and known terrorists due to human rights laws.

Yes, of course it will never happen as long as Europe is ruled by degenerates and their voters who are more concerned of terrorist's human rights than the future of their countries. If members of single religious group caused so many issues anywhere else in the world they would soon be driven elsewhere no matter what. But not here, we have become too accustomed to peace, we tolerate the intolerant.

Personally I predict that terrorism will continue to get worse and worse, attacks like we have seen this year will be an everyday stuff. Eventually the terrorists will win when people get afraid and the media starts censoring any anti-Islam articles to avoid getting targeted by terrorists. Then finally laws will be changed to prohibit any criticism of Islam and a gradual Islamization of Europe will follow. Hopefully it will be serve as an example to China, the US and other less pathetic parts of the world.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 138): Personally I predict that terrorism will continue to get worse and worse, attacks like we have seen this year will be an everyday stuff. Eventually the terrorists will win when people get afraid and the media starts censoring any anti-Islam articles to avoid getting targeted by terrorists. Then finally laws will be changed to prohibit any criticism of Islam and a gradual Islamization of Europe will follow.

100% in agreement with you here, we should all be looking at the mess in Sweden, its a chilling portent of what is to come.

Quoting elite (Reply 137): The UK, a country not even in the Schengen zone, can't deport some violent and known terrorists due to human rights laws.

We have one in Norway to, what's really pathetic is the govt has tried to expel him to Iraq but lefty human rights lawyers keep on blocking his deportation. So we're stuck with a hard core terrorist and mass murderer, which we can't even keep locked up.

Quoting elite (Reply 137): Good luck being able to draft an immigration policy based on that, especially within the European Union. The UK, a country not even in the Schengen zone, can't deport some violent and known terrorists due to human rights laws.

That's a common UKIP fallacy. The UK government has no balls, in part because they only cared about IRA for decades. Nothing the ECHR mandates prevents the deportation of these people. France regularly does it. Besides, plenty of countries are members of the ECHR while having crappy human rights records, it's pretty toothless.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 131): can't answer why he got away but he was not able to reach his target. Security did their job. Snipers in Copenhagen for a low-key cafe appearance?

Obviously not as low key as thought. My point once again, they did not assess the threat accurately, or he would not have been able to escape and kill again.

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 132): And is simply not feasible to have snipers stationed everywhere, can you imagine the man power involved and the cost.

All it takes is one or two strategically placed snipers. I'll bet they wish they had them there now. This speaker should have raised a large red flag.

[Edited 2015-02-17 17:38:18]

[Edited 2015-02-17 17:40:19]

[Edited 2015-02-17 17:41:25]

[Edited 2015-02-17 18:18:12]

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 135): No WarRI1, your quote of CNN reporting was correct. CNN was correct, you were correct.

I appreciate the information. Thanks.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 131): Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 129):That is my point, security there and he walks up to where he can blast off multiple shots into the building and then walks or runs away to shoot and kill again. Bum security to me. Where were the snipers? I can't answer why he got away but he was not able to reach his target. Security did their job. Snipers in Copenhagen for a low-key cafe appearance?

Yeah, right mham001, snipers on the roofs have never been our lifestyle.

Last time I have heard about snipers in Copenhagen (heard about it, didn't see myself) was back in 1997 when some certain Mr. William Jefferson Clinton visited our Queen and addressed a crowd of a few dozen thousands Copenhageners under blue sky at the square inside the royal palace.

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 144): Yeah, right mham001, snipers on the roofs have never been our lifestyle. I agree, but it may be from now on. Last time I have heard about snipers in Copenhagen (heard about it, didn't see myself) was back in 1997 when some certain Mr. William Jefferson Clinton visited our Queen and addressed a crowd of a few dozen thousands Copenhageners under blue sky at the square inside the royal palace.

We see danger everywhere now, such as the case with Presidents Kennedy and Reagan to name a couple who were still victims with all the protection, never mind without. Our SS calls the shots, no pun intended.

[Edited 2015-02-17 19:03:25]

[Edited 2015-02-17 19:04:41]

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 145): Our SS calls the shots, not to make a pun.

I'm not sure you even see the pun that many others notice.

Quoting tailskid (Reply 146): I'm not sure you even see the pun that many others notice.

You have me there. In using the SS, I meant Secret Service, not the Nazi SS. ( A disclaimer)  

[Edited 2015-02-17 19:46:15]