Details are sketchy at the moment, but during a discussion on blasphemy in Copenhagen shots where fired at Danish cartoonist Lars Vilks and three police officers. The French ambassador to Denmark was also present. It seems there where two gunmen, neither of whom have yet been captured.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31472423
http://nyhederne.tv2.dk/2015-02-14-l...d-tegner-tre-betjente-ramt-af-skud

When is this craziness going to stop?

Lars Vilks is Swedish.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 1): When is this craziness going to stop?

To be honest? After the Islamic world goes through its own Reformation. Certain Islamic leaders have started calling for such a reformation, which would turn Islam into a proper religion and remove the political, military, economic and legal aspects of Islam. The whole world will be better off for it.

But this will be extremely difficult to accomplish when the political, military, economic and legal mandates in Islam are written right in the Quran and the book is considered to be the perfect word of God. Christianity never had that problem (The Bible was written by humans, so it is easy to consider that it is subject to error or omission), but still we fought long and hard over it. But we eventually got over it.

40 shots fired ? Wow this could have been real ugly...

Well it's already turned ugly. Three police officers wounded and one person killed.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 1): When is this craziness going to stop?

When countries like yours stop violently prosecuting blasphemy, for starters. When that little feature is removed from all Islamic culture, as it was from Western culture, then it will stop.

Right now, your brethren are starting to beg for the rest of the world to commit genocide. And that will be truly awful.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3): To be honest? After the Islamic world goes through its own Reformation. Certain Islamic leaders have started calling for such a reformation, which would turn Islam into a proper religion and remove the political, military, economic and legal aspects of Islam. The whole world will be better off for it.

Wow, we agree on something. Mark it on the calendar.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3): But this will be extremely difficult to accomplish when the political, military, economic and legal mandates in Islam are written right in the Quran and the book is considered to be the perfect word of God.

And here we disagree. The Bible is even more violent and restrictive than the Q'uran and yet somehow the West got around it, in spited of repeated pressure from some corners to bring back "Biblical" law.

Don't blame on the book what should rightly be blamed on the people using that book as a weapon.

And while I know that the Bible was written by humans, it itself (at least OT) claims to be the word of God directly dictated to Moses. The Gospels are the work of men, but divinely inspired by their direct time as apostles of the Son of God. Many Christian groups claim Biblical infallibility. Again, it's not about the book. It's about the people using it to oppress.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3): But this will be extremely difficult to accomplish when the political, military, economic and legal mandates in Islam are written right in the Quran and the book is considered to be the perfect word of God. Christianity never had that problem (The Bible was written by humans, so it is easy to consider that it is subject to error or omission), but still we fought long and hard over it. But we eventually got over it.

I generally agree with what you are saying. Although, Christianity went through its own dark ages, and the Crusades were a result of that. However, now, Islam is in the heat of their dark ages, and will be for a while. The best way to combat this is education, and removal of the top religious extremists and leaders (with drone strikes).

It shows that security can make a difference, even if there was still one killed.

Quoting 29erUSA187 (Reply 7): The best way to combat this is education, and removal of the top religious extremists and leaders (with drone strikes).

I disagree. That just makes martyrs. Look at how well the Romans did at eradicating Christianity by crucifying their leader.

Education is the key, but also so is establishing secular democracies. And we should absolutely make that a firm requirement for any military assistance.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 9): Look at how well the Romans did at eradicating Christianity by crucifying their leader.

Actually, it was the Sanhedrin (Jewish high priests) that had Jesus executed. Pontius Pilate only had it carried out to prevent an uprising by them in an interesting political move. There isn't any historical mention of a "Christianity" movement until 50 years after Jesus died. In fact, the only historical mention of a man called Jesus is from the Bible. There are no contemporary sources of his existence or his execution, which means that if he did live and die in Roman Judea, he really wasn't a concern to the Romans.

Quoting 29erUSA187 (Reply 7): The best way to combat this is education, and removal of the top religious extremists and leaders

We killed the guy who did that. Saddam's Iraq wasn't exactly a bastion of human rights, but he kept the extremists in check. The rise of ISIS is the direct result of the 2003 invasion of Iraq.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6): And while I know that the Bible was written by humans, it itself (at least OT) claims to be the word of God directly dictated to Moses.

I was educated by Jesuits, and we were taught that the only part of the bible that is said to be directly the word of God (although even that is debatable due to the hand-me-down nature of the Old Testemant and subsequent translations) are the 10 Commandments. And notice that nowhere do the 10 commandments dictate a punishment. Nowhere does it say, "Break the 2nd commandment and the penalty is death". That is the biggest problem I have with Islam - it gives the power of lethal religious judgement to people. Such as apostasy - we dopey people are supposed to kill our neighbor or our family member if he rejects Islam. I think that is evil.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 9): I disagree. That just makes martyrs. Look at how well the Romans did at eradicating Christianity by crucifying their leader.

There is that argument, but at the same time, history has shown that militant Islam does go back into its hole for a genration or more if you kick it in the teeth hard enough. Tours, Cabra, Vienna, the Barbary Wars, etc. Sometimes, when you are dealing with religious fanatics, the only way to stop them is to convince them that perhaps God is NOT on their side, if He allows them to get their asses kicked so bad.

Let me guess, another isolated incident?

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 12): Let me guess, another isolated incident?

Same as North Carolina?

The part that surprises me is a sense of reality should have warned Denmark that this was likely to happen. They seemed ill prepared for the reality. To let one gunman get that close and then escape is not good police work. In fact it is shoddy and seems that a sense of unreality is afoot in Denmark. It does not happen here, well it just did. A report is in there is another shooting that has taken place. One person shot.

[Edited 2015-02-14 17:03:40]

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 14): The part that surprises me is a sense of reality should have warned Denmark that this was likely to happen. They seemed ill prepared for the reality. To let one gunman get that close and then escape is not good police work. In fact it is shoddy and seems that a sense of unreality is afoot in Denmark. It does not happen here, well it just did. A report is in there is another shooting that has taken place. One person shot.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/02...-where-freedom-speech-meeting-was/

Surely just random violence.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31475803

Now it just keeps getting worse...

Quoting alberchico (Reply 16):

Reality, it just keeps on hitting until you grasp it. It is real folks, terror has arrived on the scene, no matter how much it is denied. The number of countries will continue to grow. Non-believers beware, they do not like us, in fact they hate us.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARCvo9Y73Mg#t=32

this is the audio from inside the room when the shots rang out..

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 15): http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/02...-where-freedom-speech-meeting-was/ Surely just random violence.

an athletic build with an Arabic appearance."
What the heck is Arab appearance, is it a Saudi Arab, Syrian, Egyptian or Algerian, there is a lot of differences between those. In the picture i could only see a face of a white Caucasian.
You can always count on Fox news to give you a biased point of view when it comes to Islam.
I will use your same words, catch him/them and throw the book on them.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 19): You can always count on Fox news to give you a biased point of view when it comes to Islam.

They were quoting the police:
"Copenhagen Police released a blurry photo of the suspect. They described him as 25-30, 6-feet-tall, "an athletic build with an Arabic appearance.""

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 14): The part that surprises me is a sense of reality should have warned Denmark that this was likely to happen. They seemed ill prepared for the reality. To let one gunman get that close and then escape is not good police work. In fact it is shoddy and seems that a sense of unreality is afoot in Denmark.

I'm not sure how appropriate that comment is. Did any Danes talk about "shoddy police work" following 9/11? I think not.

At least you do not agree with the French ambassador Mr. Francois Zimeray, who was attending the meeting. He praised the police for preventing the gunman to make it into the building, thereby likely saving his life and preventing a Charlie Hebdo massacre or worse.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 20): They described him as 25-30, 6-feet-tall, "an athletic build with an Arabic appearance.""

My question still stand, what is an Arabic appearance?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31475803
It mentioned
Police released photographs showing the alleged attacker apparently wearing a purple balaclava and thick puffer jacket.
Nothing about Arabic appearance and i trust the BBC news more than Fox lies.
The associated press
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-02-14-21-27-15
They described him as 25 to 30 years old with an athletic build and carrying a black automatic weapon. They released a blurred photograph of the suspect wearing dark clothes and a scarf covering part of his face.

[Edited 2015-02-14 19:14:01]

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 19):

Nah, it's not really Fox News. People are just getting fed up with Islamic terrorist. It keeps happening and no Muslims will come out in large numbers and denounce it.

Sorry if this offends any Muslims but this has to stop one way or another. Pretty soon non-Muslims are going to start fighting back.

It seems Fox News' article was more accurate than the BBC, which has been scrubbing non-PC language of late.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/w...enhagen-cafe-shots-fired/23408677/

The Danish Security and Intelligence Service described the gunman, who was carrying a black machine gun, as tall, with an athletic build. It said he had an "Arabic appearance, but with lighter skin than normal and black straight hair."

http://www.france24.com/en/20150214-...y-debate-copenhagen-vilks-zimeray/

A police statement described the suspect as "male, 25-30 years of age, height approximately 185 cm, athletic build, Arabic appearance (but with lighter than normal skin), and black straight hair".

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20150214/1018277206.html

He was described as a 25-20 years old man, about 180 centimeters tall, athletic with Arabic appearance, but with lighter skin.

http://descrier.co.uk/news/world/eur...speech-debate-shooting-copenhagen/

Police described the gunman as “male, 25-30 years old, around 185cm tall, athletic build with an Arabic appearance but with lighter skin than normal and with black, slick hair”.

Quoting DDR (Reply 23): People are just getting fed up with Islamic terrorist

Do you think that the majority of Muslims are not also fed up from these terrorist acts?
How many Muslim countries have joined the Alliance in the fight against ISIS?

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 25):

How many Muslims were in the streets cheering when 9/11 happened? I saw it on tv. There were thousands.

Uh-Oh... Another attack.. Just 10 hours after the first, another one has occurred in Copenhagen.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/02/14/europe/denmark-shooting/index.html

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 25): Do you think that the majority of Muslims are not also fed up from these terrorist acts? How many Muslim countries have joined the Alliance in the fight against ISIS?

I am very happy to see Jordan get as angry as they did and start hitting hard recently. I just hope they get the support they need (their air force is inadequate for a long campaign). I don't expect Obama to be particularly helpful.

But apart from recent action by Jordan, the rest of the Muslim world has been conspicuous by its lack of commitment to defeating Radical Islamists, whether it is the Taliban, Al-Qaeda, ISIS or whatever. I understand that the Saudi Royal family has a long-standing agreement with the Wahabis dating back to the establishment of the House of Saud, and that taking a more active role might upset them, but one of these days that agreement will be accurately seen as a deal with the devil.

Dread, I agree with you 100%. This fight against Islamic terrorist can't be won unless other Muslim countries join in the fight. I don't know if they are scared or if they secretly support the terrorists, but until they stand up and fight, the violence will continue.

Quoting DDR (Reply 26): How many Muslims were in the streets cheering when 9/11 happened? I saw it on tv. There were thousands.

Thousands from 1.7 Billion.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 28): the rest of the Muslim world has been conspicuous by its lack of commitment to defeating Radical Islamists,

Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Iraq, Qatar and United Arab Emirates are also involved in the fight against ISIS.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 30):

Thousands of people cheering the killings was chilling enough. I'm sure there were others cheering in secret.

If other Muslim countries are fighting terrorist, then good for them. I would respect them.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 19): an athletic build with an Arabic appearance." What the heck is Arab appearance, is it a Saudi Arab, Syrian, Egyptian or Algerian, there is a lot of differences between those. In the picture i could only see a face of a white Caucasian. You can always count on Fox news to give you a biased point of view when it comes to Islam.

Don't blame Fox this time. They quoted police, who quoted whitneses, who saw him race away in a car.

Unfortunately the pictures show practically nothing but his clothes. Police is of course working on minimizing blurry and getting the exposure right. The pavement seems overexposed to me.

The whitneses may be right or wrong. Sure most Danes will have difficulty identifying a Caucasian since there are at least 10,000 times more Arab refugees and other immigrants in this country, not so much from Egypt and Algeria.

Quoting DDR (Reply 23): Pretty soon non-Muslims are going to start fighting back.

And that feeds the cycle that organized extremists want to start. The same technique used by "revolutionaries."

The best strategy to defeat this, is competent police work along with addressing real grievances that may exist between groups of people. This holds true for the macro as well as the micro.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 30): Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Iraq, Qatar and United Arab Emirates are also involved in the fight against ISIS.

Let's skip Iraq, they have no choice. I looked at that list and realized that really only represents a few wealthy families in the Middle East. Monarchies/dictators, all of them, not Muslim society, so we really don't know what Muslim society thinks by actions of those dictators. The royal families are more interested in their hides than their people, what few they have and the real irony is that they crowd funded the same groups. But that's another conversation about another Muslim war, not the Muslim war on western society that Copenhagen is waging today.

Looks like it happened right outside the great synagogue.

http://www.algemeiner.com/2015/02/14...in-attack-on-copenhagen-synagogue/

Quoting tailskid (Reply 33): And that feeds the cycle that organized extremists want to start. The same technique used by "revolutionaries." The best strategy to defeat this, is competent police work along with addressing real grievances that may exist between groups of people. This holds true for the macro as well as the micro.

  

Yes, because these idiots also see themselves as "fighting back." Trust me, there are plenty of douche bicycles with one functioning brain cell around on all sides of every ideological conflict who can make it so the whole world is at war if we let them.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 12): Let me guess, another isolated incident?

If it happened in the US, the current President would downplay it as 'workplace violence'.

Quoting WarRI1 (Reply 17): Reality, it just keeps on hitting until you grasp it. It is real folks, terror has arrived on the scene, no matter how much it is denied. The number of countries will continue to grow. Non-believers beware, they do not like us, in fact they hate us.

  
It's time to fight back against these bloodthirsty Islamic terrorist an their left-wing apologist that pretend it's not problem.

Quoting DDR (Reply 31): If other Muslim countries are fighting terrorist, then good for them. I would respect them.

Anti-ISIS protests in the streets of Amman, Jordan, after the burning of the Jordanian pilot - more photos in the this link:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...rning-of-caged-pilot-10029408.html



Killing the pilot, and in such a manner, may have been a serious tactical mistake by Daesh/ISIS. They had expected to divide Jordanian opinion, but it had exactly the opposite effect.

mariner

[Edited 2015-02-14 21:57:34]

Don't forget that there still exists the Al Nusra Front, with their ideological sponsor Al Qaeda. The Al Qaeda leadership and the ISIS leadership might be at odds about the tactics used, but their final aim is the same: A worldwide Caliphate.
And at ground level the diffences are minimal, witrh fighters moving from one movement to the other at will (often determined who pays more, ISIS, due to their access to oil wells, is relatively well off and can pay more).

Jan

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 12): Let me guess, another isolated incident?

No. Definitely not. As we know there are approximately 65, 000 Muslims in Portugal and similar events are a daily occurance in that country. No wonder the rest of the population is too frightened to leave their homes as 65, 000 marauding Muslims slaughter every one they encounter.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, such incidents are a problem that need to be addressed. You will not solve the problem and eliminate such outrages by seeking to demonise or criminalise entire communities. It is not right to claim that these events are mandated by Islam and that Islam in isolation is the cause. If that were the case we would expect to see a far higher level of violence.

So why is it that some young men and women choose to follow a path of violence? Saying Islam doesn't answer the question. What else might it be? A sense of alienation from family and community, dissatisfaction with life, rejection by a part of society, peer pressure, a lust for excitement, a longing for a sense of worth and achievement ready to be exploited by those thirsting for power? Perhaps some of the same things that motivated radicalised youth of earlier generations giving us the dubious benefits of communism, facism, nationalism and other products of civilised and Christian Europe.

In the short term enhanced vigilance and security is necessary. Over the longer term policies that involve the Muslim community in projects to identify potential risk persons and steer them in more positive and socially productive directions need to be established or reinforced where they exist. Demonising Muslims will not achieve that and will only exacerbate the problem.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 37): If it happened in the US, the current President would downplay it as 'workplace violence'.

Never let an opportunity pass.

[Edited 2015-02-14 22:20:03]

Quoting mariner (Reply 38): Killing the pilot, and in such a manner, may have been a serious tactical mistake by Daesh/ISIS. They had expected to divide Jordanian opinion, but it had exactly the opposite effect.

Jordania has maybe the best disciplined and trained military in the region, the successors of the old British trained Royal Arab Legion. These mostly bedouin forces are fiercely loyal to the king.
And, unlike most other Middle Eastern rulers, the Jodainan king can actually claim some historic legitimacy, as being a direct descendant of the Prophet's family.

Jan

Quoting ElanusNotatus (Reply 40): So why is it that some young men and women choose to follow a path of violence? Saying Islam doesn't answer the question.

That's a bold statement.

Islamic doctrine and ideology is what motivates these terrorists (so they usually say themselves).
So it's very naive to postulate Islamism does not play the biggest role in this behavior.

I'm not saying all muslims are like this, but all Germans werent's nazis either, and look how that ended up.
The story is the same. Too many people take a bad ideology too serious.

One cannot condone the terrorism violence done 'in the name of the religion' whether it is by persons of Islamic, Christian, Jewish, Hindu or any other faith. Don't forget too the acts of violence in the US recently of 2 Muslim women killed 'over a parking space' in North Carolina or the arson attack the other night of a Islamic school in Houston, Texas with in part likely religiously inspired reasoning.

The drawings that have offended persons of the Islamic faith, with a few driven to do violent acts of revenge, isn't just about religious teachings, but that it is seen as deliberate insult to persons who are not of the home culture and to be a nasty put down, intimidation to keep them out of their country, or made to live in certain areas, limited in educational, employment, political and economic opportunity. The drawings have also been vile in using stereotype depictions such as big noses, looking dirty, or connecting with or condoning terrorism in the Western world.

While one can be constructively critical of any faith or the behaviors of believers due to their religious beliefs, deliberately provoking with insults like depictions of The Prophet Mohammad is just being deliberately and unnecessarily provocative. I would also like to see insulted groups take peaceful protests, encourage boycotts of advertisers and publishers who do such acts to make them use better editorial control for their own economic well being.

Insulting acts just make the divides even worse, the last thing we need we need in this world.

Quoting ElanusNotatus (Reply 40): Perhaps some of the same things that motivated radicalised youth of earlier generations giving us the dubious benefits of communism, facism, nationalism and other products of civilised and Christian Europe.

Thanks for at least admitting that islam is just as totalitarian and just as dangerous ideology as nazism and communism.

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 44): Quoting ElanusNotatus (Reply 40): Perhaps some of the same things that motivated radicalised youth of earlier generations giving us the dubious benefits of communism, facism, nationalism and other products of civilised and Christian Europe. Thanks for at least admitting that islam is just as totalitarian and just as dangerous ideology as nazism and communism.

Correction: Certain branches of Islam. THE ISLAM doesn't exist. The religion is more fragmented than Evangelical Christians and there exists no central authority. Any fool can build a building, declare it to be a mosque, call himself Imam and preach nonsense.

Jan

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 43): depictions of The Prophet Mohammad is just being deliberately and unnecessarily provocative.

I'd argue that these kinds of depictions are necessarily provocative. Deliberately having to avoid insulting any group out of fear of shootings or bombs means that that group is a problem.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 43): Insulting acts just make the divides even worse, the last thing we need we need in this world.

They don't make the divides worse in any way, they highlight the divides that currently exist. Treading lightly out of fear for your life is not what western society is about and it should not be tolerated by anyone, Muslims included.

If I draw a picture of Buddhists depicting them as a bunch of twisted animals then a Buddhist will tell me that the greatest wisdom is seeing through appearances.

If I draw a picture of Christians depicting them as bunch of twisted animals then I might get a picket by the Westboro Babtist Church with signs reading "Polaks Are Fags!" & "All Polish Are Going To Hell"

If I draw a picture of Jews depicting them as bunch of twisted animals then I will get called an Anti-Semite, then some Jew will buy the picture and hang it in a Museum of Intolerance and I would be forced to make a public apology admitting my art was made under the influence of alcohol and I really did not mean what I drew.

If I do the same depicting Muslims I might be gunned down, blown up, stabbed or beaten to death.

The divide is already there and it needs to be dealt with from the inside. Muslim leaders need to stand up against this and condemn violence of any kind, but under no circumstance should someone be afraid for their life for drawing something.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 43):

People who can't stand their religion getting insulted simply don't belong to a modern western society, it's as simple as that.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 30): Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Iraq, Qatar and United Arab Emirates are also involved in the fight against ISIS.

But bring almost nothing to the fight.
Jordan brings 20+ F16's Saudi 4, Qatar 2. Like i said before, jets your flag on wiki but not much else.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 37): It's time to fight back against these bloodthirsty Islamic terrorist an their left-wing apologist that pretend it's not problem.

You know what I still cant comprehend is the soft spot liberals have for Militant Islam. These people would be the first to be executed or thrown off of buildings under Islamic rule yet they have a constant hardon for it. It makes me cringe, laugh and bang my head against the wall all at the same time. Cretins.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 47): People who can't stand their religion getting insulted simply don't belong to a modern western society, it's as simple as that.

Exactly, Not only that. I question the sanity of a well educated adult in the year 2015 that still believes in invisible sky fairies. It is a ridiculous concept never mind killing in the name of it.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 43): While one can be constructively critical of any faith or the behaviors of believers due to their religious beliefs, deliberately provoking with insults like depictions of The Prophet Mohammad is just being deliberately and unnecessarily provocative.

There would be no humour left in the world if sensitive little babies with that kind of view got their way. Religion is a belief, It isnt a reality. Where do you draw the line in being offended or provoked? No jokes about nationalities? Weight? Sex? Income? A sane grown adult should be able to go about the day without rage filled intentions of killing people who draw cartoons about mystical beings.