154
155

"Alt right tweenagers" or "racist/homophobic/xenophobic children"? /r/livestreamfail struggles with self-definition, sex work, and cultural v. legal norms. (self.SubredditDrama)

FoucaultMeMichel が 投稿

Yesterday we saw some drama revolving around "real-life" livestreamer Ice Poseidon and his fans' various understandings of feminism. That conversation continues today, but with a twist.

Background: Ice Poseidon is livestreaming his adventures in Europe. He first stopped in England, and has now moved on to the Netherlands. Apparently he was trying to livestream in Amsterdam's red light district, and apparently any kind of videography and photography near the brothels is verboden. He was confronted by a womanwomen who asked him to stop streaming, and a link to the clip was posted on LSF with the title: "Another feminist strikes Ice poseidon" [For what it's worth, the LSF mods have flared the title as clickbait]

The top comment in the thread from Danny777v asserts that "this sub is filled with alt right tweenagers." There's a fair amount of back and forth about feminism there, but most of the drama concerning the alt-right and tweenagers can be found below this heavily downvoted comment.

A second top-level comment notes that "a large chunk of [Ice Poseidon's] fans seem to be racist/homophobic/xenophobic children?" with drama to follow.

There's a lot of other dramatic happenings in the thread. Here's a selection:

全 132 件のコメント
並べ替え:
ベスト
トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]ZekeCool505Smuggest SRDine Alien Ghost Sorceror 100 ポイント101 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Oh man it's my favorite defense: "It's technically legal so it's right!"

[–]jerkstorefranchisee 57 ポイント58 ポイント  (1子コメント)

It’s such a ridiculous leap from “he didn’t break a law” to “he did nothing wrong.”

[–]ZekeCool505Smuggest SRDine Alien Ghost Sorceror 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

And yet a leap that sooooo many people are willing to make with both feet.

[–]cantCmeThe blind stares of a million pairs of eyes 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hahaha, try pulling a weapon on a bouncer there. They pretty much all work together and I've seen them come from everywhere over much less.

And I doubt the legal system will help you here if you say you did nothing illegal and you acted in self defense. Bouncer will get a slap on the wrist and you'd be worse off. Probably.

[–]MadKingNoOneTrying hard not to fuck up 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

People use that excuse for that one video of the guy openly filming a girl's croch while she stretches for ballet. It shows up on r/cringe a lot and without fail people throw up excuses for his creepyness

[–]tommy2014015i'd tongue fuck pycelle's asshole if it saved my family 73 ポイント74 ポイント  (5子コメント)

／r/livestreamfail was a mistake

[–]Aetolthings should work the way I misunderstand the rest of the world 62 ポイント63 ポイント  (2子コメント)

／

The fuck is that

[–]tommy2014015i'd tongue fuck pycelle's asshole if it saved my family 52 ポイント53 ポイント  (1子コメント)

its a chinese / i was shitposting on weibo

[–]kyoujikishinEnhancing the weeb 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The redundancy is uncalled for

[–]buddhasupe 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

There is some really great stuff that gets posted there, which makes it all the more worse when way more than half is stupid posts about ice Poseidon or Greek. There is so much garbage I have to filter there to find the entertaining clips.

[–]SECRETLY_BEHIND_YOU 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I used to love that subreddit when it was just people fucking up in a game, or other generally silly mistakes but it's been ruined by the addition of IRL streams. And I'm someone who loved the idea of IRL streams when it was announced, having been a fan of classic streaming sites, but it's just become the trashy section of Twitch (not including streamers who only stream IRL occasionally or before a gaming stream)

Now one half of that subreddit is "LUL another totally unintentional dumb thing that happened to [male IRL steamer]!" While other half is "IRL cam girl is ruining Twitch by begging for attention!" And it's like that everyday.

[–]FoucaultMeMichel[S] 56 ポイント57 ポイント  (8子コメント)

It's worth noting that when I wrote this, the top comment about the alt-right was at 649 upvotes. The third-highest upvoted top comment (at 465) says: "lmao, what a dumb bitch." There's a fair bit of drama in that thread too, a lot of it revolving around prostitution as a vocation, lifestyle, and "lifestyle choice."

I actually think that contrast explains a lot of the demographic dynamics of livestreamfail.

[–]tommy2014015i'd tongue fuck pycelle's asshole if it saved my family 82 ポイント83 ポイント  (7子コメント)

that sub is 100% filled with alt-right teenagers

[–]FoucaultMeMichel[S] 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I mean there are definitely a lot of them there, to the point that I don't think it's worth debating the claim. But, like the "6ft+ black tax paying liberal" UntouchableC, I do think there's some diversity.

[–]BlutigeBaumwollebrogressive SJW 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hey, I post there too. #notalllivestreamfailcommentersjustmostofthem

[–]ig86 54 ポイント55 ポイント  (3子コメント)

This dude is gonna get fucking clocked one of these days.

[–]BonyIver 35 ポイント36 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Can't come soon enough.

[–]waiv 56 ポイント57 ポイント  (8子コメント)

Streamers seem to be huge factories of drama.

[–]FoucaultMeMichel[S] 32 ポイント33 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Yeah, that's absolutely true. I think a lot of it stems from the fact that everyday life is incredibly boring, and for IRL streamers, that's the totality of their content. If I had to generate a code for content analysis, I would say that most IRL streamers tend to realy on four interest generating techniques: humor, sex, drama, and grotesquerie. Humor is hard to pull off consistently, men would have a hard time trying to sell sex to a large livestream audience, and grotesquerie is personally taxing, although it's not that uncommon. Drama is easy to manufacture, and because it's so controversial, fans can very easily feel like they're participating in the stream itself as they "debate."

IRL streaming has the potential to showcase a lot of other content, from on-the-job streams (there's a semi-popular garbage man on Twitch, and a policeman), to travel streams (cf. Cjayride's streams in Taiwan and South East Asia), to creative streams, but those are hard to break into and probably not very lucrative.

[–]jerkstorefranchisee 36 ポイント37 ポイント  (5子コメント)

I could absolutely see the appeal in watching someone wander around a cool foreign country, or doing an interesting job. I will never understand why anyone would want to watch some who is Famous From Video Games eat a meal

[–]tdogg8Folks, the CTR shill meeting was moved to next week. 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yeah there's a pretty big difference between An Idiot Abroad and IP.

[–]jerkstorefranchisee 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (1子コメント)

That might be my favorite tv show of all time, and a big part of that is the host. Between his dumbfuck mind journeys and the cycle of reluctance and acceptance, he makes for a very relatable and very likable character. He almost always ends up finding something to like or some little kernel of understanding. Even if it’s not what we would traditionally consider to be “the point,” he walks away with something, that’s a good way to travel and a good way to live.

And then we’ve got this asshole trying to see if he can get his viewers to see a boob

[–]IAmTheSheeple 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Also an idiot abroad is a tv show and not a livestream so they cut the boring parts out. Streamers feel the need to entertain every minute so they end up doing dumb stuf.

[–]Raentwo -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm confused because a lot of people in this thread are being pretty negative towards anyone who watches ice, and yet he's doing exactly what you're saying - wandering around a foreign country. Sure his subreddit is shit and a lot of his viewers are alt right morons but it's pretty entertaining to watch him stumbling around doing stupid stuff the same way its funny to watch Jackass people doing stupid stuff. He probably should've stopped filming, but that woman getting aggressive and demanding he turn off his camera was pretty impolite and honestly that would've annoyed me that she acted that way.

[–]freefrogs 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's a little hard not to consider his viewers as complicit in the nonsense he (and by extension his community) gets up to. To some people it's like saying "I only read Breitbart for the comics", it can be difficult to separate the people watching from what they've chosen to watch.

[–]cptal 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's people pandering to the lowest common denominator - they want the most viewers and revenue and resort to trashbait because that's what sells when you're too uncreative to do anything else.

All the techniques you state also end up devolving in racist, mysogynistic drama because humor and sex and grotesquerie can end up in the same place, if you're not careful and end up pandering to the low-hanging fruit.

[–]LinkBalls 145 ポイント146 ポイント  (19子コメント)

ice poseidon's community is basically the gaming t_d. you can't even say they're the 15 year old version because that's what t_d is. such a constant sad display of racism, transphobia, misogyny and general bigotry. a lot of gaming communities are eh to bad, but good lord this guy's is another level.

i swear they're going to do something like dox someone soon and get the whole sub banned.

[–]CodenameMolotov 68 ポイント69 ポイント  (14子コメント)

I see that sub show up on /r/all sometimes and it's so fucking confusing to me. Why do people watch this guy do boring shit like go to restaurants? Why do they care about who he hangs out with or dates? This is like some kind of fucked up Truman Show.

[–]jerkstorefranchisee 55 ポイント56 ポイント  (1子コメント)

My theory is that it’s like a cool older friend/brother simulator. Unlikeable indoor kids need somebody to look up to, can’t find one, and settle for a really sad approximation. Plus he goes outside so you don’t have to

[–]therealslimjimboHumor is for the weak, like me 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Besides, you don't have to be let down or taken advantage of by one.

[–]LinkBalls 83 ポイント84 ポイント  (9子コメント)

someone on this sub said it best about some older drama: he's reality tv for edgy teens who say they hate reality tv.

[–]Tiredofnotbeingright 44 ポイント45 ポイント  (8子コメント)

That's all Youtube is for people who watch vloggers as far as I can tell. I used to call them boyfriend/girlfriend stand-in's but I'm starting to think you (and the person you quoted)'s more tabloid definition is right.

People who watch these asshats on either live streaming or recording their bullshit really believe that they're somehow better than someone who watches Keeping Up with the Kardashians for some bewildering reason.

I mean, I'm here, so I know I'm not any better. But I KNOW I'm not any better.

...which makes us better.

[–]PlayMp1when did globalism and open borders become liberal principles 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's what I've determined as well. Vloggers are reality TV by another name. I guess it has the benefit of being edited by the subjects rather than by faceless producers but it's still the same concepts and presentation.

[–]JohnTDouche 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (4子コメント)

It's the same for all these people watching twitch. They're alone in their room but in the company of their "buddy" playing a game. It's the next step of reality TV, surrogate friends/siblings/acquaintances/social groups. Like fuck they'd ever admit it though.

[–]foxdye22 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'll totally admit it. I watch twitch pretty regularly and I don't have a lot of friends. I'm not very close to people in general and I'm extremely introverted and basically all my friends have moved to different cities (also, my girlfriend is a few states away for a few months). As a result, I have a lot of free time, and not much casual social interaction. Twitch and even Youtube games series to some extent do give you some sense of closeness to someone and social interaction while you get to watch them do something you enjoy. Also, I'm super broke and it keeps me from having to blow all my money on video games.

If someone wants to look down on me for something that makes me happy, I don't really care.

[–]tehlemmings 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I just really like esports and roleplaying shows done by professional entertainers :\

There's no where else to watch that kinda stuff.

Although, admittedly I did really enjoy watching dodger play anime bullshit visual novels that i'd never play myself. The co-ops were the best for the reactions and humor. It's a not-really-guilty pleasure.

[–]Tiredofnotbeingright 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I only really ever loved watching Starcraft II and years later some hearthstone to figure out how to build my own deck. Some streamers in both communities legitimately didn't play it like that. Yes, they were entertainers, but they made it clear at every step that this is a persona, I'm here to entertain you and play a game and make money at the same time, etc.

My favorite being Day9 who frankly, any community would be lucky to have him make content for them is my feeling.

These "TwitchIRL" guys are taking what is supposed to be a nice idea--letting steamers who have followings just hang out with them when they don't want to game--and fucking ruining it by pretending they're the real ones.

I agree with everything you said. That's why it pisses me off. Because there's nothing wrong with feeling lonely, wanting to live a little bit vicariously through someone else, etc. And admitting that is the first step to maybe soothing those doubts, insecurities and unpleasantries with better source material.

[–]FoximusMaximuswhile(true) std::cout<<"Cuck"; 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Still waiting for Day9 to just drop the pretense and explicitly make it a show about cats.

[–]seshfan 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The fact that reddit always decries celebrity worship yet makes these subs that are shrines to two-bit youtube/twitch stars will always be funny to me.

[–]Spaceman_JalegoWhen fascism comes to America, it will come smothered in butter 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is like some kind of fucked up Truman Show.

That's why it's fun, though. I'd never participate in the community, or watch more than a few minutes of the stream, but I get the appeal. You're watching someone live their entire life right in front of you. You can even fuck with him by harassing the places he goes. It's real-time interactive entertainment, and the shittier of a person you are, the more fun you can have, hence why it makes the communities such utter trash.

[–]tdogg8Folks, the CTR shill meeting was moved to next week. 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Its the internet version of reality TV.

[–]tommy2014015i'd tongue fuck pycelle's asshole if it saved my family 35 ポイント36 ポイント  (0子コメント)

i kinda wanna bait them into doxxing me just to get rid of that shithole

[–]ParamoreFanClubGiving u the helicopter dick 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The Donald aren't mostly teens sadly I gaurentee you that. The a,pint of edgy 30 year old men is crazy there are even older woman on the Donald.

[–]BloomEPUShe doesn't even have tits, lol. 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

They're just trash, really disgusting trash.

[–]TTVRaptor [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Someone from their subreddit already tried "doxing" me (They just posted my public Linked In and name. Their mods haven't removed any links to it, so we'll see what happens. I grew up on chan culture though so I could care less, but would suck to happen to someone who isn't use to this type of stuff.

[–]Not_A_Doctor__I've always had an inkling dwarves are underestimated in combat 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (32子コメント)

I do believe and actually am aware of certain instances where employees at Twitch, and YouTube, are actively trying to impede Ice Poseidon's progress as a content creator, while staying within their employer's boundaries.

Huh? Is this true? If it is true, how and why?

[–]tommy2014015i'd tongue fuck pycelle's asshole if it saved my family 110 ポイント111 ポイント  (31子コメント)

Ice Poseidon's viewer demographic is literally racist teenagers who grew up playing runescape. The paranoia and conspiracy theories stems from that.

[–]khanfusionJust a stupid diversionist tactic to diminish feminism 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Well, I guess that explains the dumbass name of "Ice Poseidon." Sounds like something a kid playing an RPG from the mid 00s would come up with.

[–]tommy2014015i'd tongue fuck pycelle's asshole if it saved my family 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I think my first WoW character was a NE Druid called LeCrae, named after the Christian rapper, Ice Poseidon really isnt that bad

[–]yonicthehedgehogideological catgirl 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

the most shameful thing about your comment is that i knew exactly who you were talking about

[–]PlayMp1when did globalism and open borders become liberal principles 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Without the context it sounds fine. Ice Poseidon sounds lame no matter the context.

[–]HastingsHolyHundred -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This Lecrae? I haven't heard more of him than his Anomaly album, but that wasn't a bad album.

[–]knvf 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I mean, it's pretty normal for people whose fame stems from a video game to more or less go professionally by their username, whether that fame is a stream, a professional esports career, or the like. And usernames are normally pretty silly.

EDIT: It's actually weird when the username is too close to their real name, becaue of the practice of refering to people as firstname "nickname" surname. The League of Legend team Phoenix 1 has players like Alex "Xspecial" Chu , Derek "Zig" Shao, and their new recruit Mike "MikeYeoung" Yeoung... aka Mike "Don't call me 'Mike "MikeYeoung" Yeoung'" Yeoung.

[–]grafton29 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (19子コメント)

That's oddly specific.

[–]tommy2014015i'd tongue fuck pycelle's asshole if it saved my family 48 ポイント49 ポイント  (18子コメント)

if u find me one ice poseidon fan who is not a teenager who plays runescape i will stream myself playing 2007scape naked and role play an insecure teenager for five hours

[–]tommy2014015i'd tongue fuck pycelle's asshole if it saved my family 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (0子コメント)

plz find one id love to do that

[–]Calcifer87 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (15子コメント)

Why runescape though?

[–]tommy2014015i'd tongue fuck pycelle's asshole if it saved my family 57 ポイント58 ポイント  (14子コメント)

Imagine the worst possible online community you can think of. Imagine /pol/ had a sick lovechild with the Donald. Now imagine that child grew up locked in an attic getting fed morsels of spoilt atlantic salmon not fit for feline consumption. Attic walls covered in non-ironic Creed posters, Nickelback playing loudly in the background. Now imagine that child one day discovered the internet. This child would play runescape while resting from masturbation and 9gag perusal (these activities were not mutually exclusive). That child is still two degrees of decency better than the average runescape player in its heyday.

Oh and their attracted to Ice Poseidon because he goes outside and they live vicariously through him in between masturbation, 9gag usage and runescape.

[–]Mr_OneHitWonderEvery new fetish is merely an erection validated. 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Harsh but fair.

[–]istealroadsigns/r/316cats /r/kevbo /r/corgibebop 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You've painted quite the vivid picture here, friendo.

[–]yzlautum 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Hahahaha good lord. I don't even know what runescape is but this is great.

[–]SoullessSingularityputting the ill in shill 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (6子コメント)

It's a mmorpg where you cut grind at everything including cutting down trees, cooking, smelting, fishing and mining, a variety of weapons, with its own kinda messed up economy and rare arbitrary items, and regions where you can kill other players who wander around. In a game with shit all graphics where all you do is the above things.

[–]cptal 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (5子コメント)

It was free/cheap which is why people play it. It was the poor mans WoW for people with a computer and nothing else. You didn't even need a decent internet connection cause it had shit graphics and if you logged out, you were mindlessly grinding so you'd just pick up where you left off.

[–]Statoke 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Hate the community but theres no need to be mean to Runescape. A poor mans WoW is just completely wrong, its nothing like WoW.

[–]Admiralbiatch2 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you for that description. I could almost smell the bottles of piss that have gathered due to staying on the computer too long waft through the air.

[–]Calcifer87 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Good lordly fuck! And here I thought League of Legends players had a bad reputation. Sometimes being oblivious can be nice.

[–]Statoke -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Stop being mean to Runescape :(

[–]TekharthaZenyatta 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

They're being mean to the fanbase, not the game.

[–]OrginalCanadian [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I will become an ice posidon fan just to make you do such a thing.

[–]Not_A_Doctor__I've always had an inkling dwarves are underestimated in combat 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Okay. So at Twitch or youtube they would not want IP to be considered a representative figure to advertisers?

[–]tommy2014015i'd tongue fuck pycelle's asshole if it saved my family 27 ポイント28 ポイント  (3子コメント)

IP is an acronym for Ice Poseidon? Than yes. Because the fanbases of streamers like that tends to cause more trouble than their worth. Also this whole idea of Youtube attacking streamers comes from this deep inferiority complex in regards to streaming and "new age media" or whatever. There was some WSJ drama a while ago that alleged that they were writing unfounded hitpieces to damage PewDiePies channel or something and it was just complete bullshit. Like I honestly don't care what you view for entertainment but the fans of these streamers and "new media" are so deeply insecure that they harass anything they see to be a thread to it.

[–]BloomEPUShe doesn't even have tits, lol. 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (2子コメント)

New media/gaming fans are so insecure. Remember gamergate?

[–]MysteryMachinationsThey didnt shoot down any airliners during the Revolutionary War 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I like when people complain and talk about "popular feminists" represent the movement because they are popular. Then they hold up Anita Sarkeesian(sp?) as an example, when she's only 'popular' because of gamergate. And I'd argue that she's only really popular among gamergaters. The average person will have no idea who she is.

[–]Demopublican 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

a women

[–]Admiralbiatch2 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

We're just going to have to install a drama hotline to that sub at this point.

[–]Felinomancy 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That guy is lucky. Pull that shit in Bangkok's red light district and the viewers will be treated to a snuff stream.

[–]AvengerMKII 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't see the problem with the woman saying to stop filming. If it's already an established rule to not film or take pictures, then obey it. It's that simple. I'm assuming the woman has lived in Amsterdam for a long time to learn the rules and probably have told people to not film.

For a person who travels and livestreams, Ice needs to do his research and not try to be sneaky about because that woman was not fucking around lol.

[–]seshfan 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I was about to post something about how she seems like a cunt and whatnot but you actually make a good point. I didn't realize he was in that district or really any context as to what was going no.

This is probably the most reddit comment ever. "I didn't know any of the context or whatever, but I knew I should call her a cunt!"

[–]UnerhoertesHaupt 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Of course, 'FoucaultMeMichel' can't resist writing about cultural and legal norms. How about the knowledge created by a streamer's power through interaction with his community?

[–]SnapshillBotShilling for Big Archive™ 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

#BotsLivesMatter

Snapshots:

  1. This Post - archive.org, megalodon.jp*, snew.github.io, archive.is

  2. we saw some drama - archive.org, megalodon.jp*, snew.github.io, archive.is

  3. verboden - archive.org, megalodon.jp*, archive.is

  4. "Another feminist strikes Ice posei... - archive.org, megalodon.jp*, archive.is

  5. top comment - archive.org, megalodon.jp*, snew.github.io, archive.is

  6. below this heavily downvoted commen... - archive.org, megalodon.jp*, snew.github.io, archive.is

  7. A second top-level comment - archive.org, megalodon.jp*, snew.github.io, archive.is

  8. A debate over the ethics of filming... - archive.org, megalodon.jp*, snew.github.io, archive.is

  9. A partially deleted debate over the... - archive.org, megalodon.jp*, snew.github.io, archive.is

I am a bot. (Info / Contact)

[–]chaobreakerFirst you get the money, then the power, and then communism. 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm not even remotely surprised to find out hat Ice Poseidon's fanbase is full of edgy teenagers.

[–]Carosello 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Okay completely off-topic but this is the third time in 24 hrs I've seen someone write "women" when they mean "woman" and it's driving me nuts.

[–]goodcleanchristianfuKnows the entire wikipedia list of logical phalluses 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm just upset no one has used the term fasclets.

[–]OrginalCanadian [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The sub used to be pretty good.

Then ice's fans took over the place.

Now its trash.