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[–]optimalgChairman of the European Union of Soviet Socialist Republics[M] [スコア非表示] stickied comment (1子コメント)

So apparently this thread has been linked by /r/SargonofAkkad now. I will not lock this as usually done when a thread is linked (we had some issues with brigades and threads being used as ideological battlegrounds before), in order to make sure people can still comment on this unusually high-effort post. I will be on the lookout for slapfights, though.

[–]ostrich_semen 127 ポイント128 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Why I Rarely Criticize The Right

"So I can low-key bat for them while telling people I'm "left-of-center""

[–]DaJalster28 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

7:50- on EDL "We are trying to protect the English intellectual tradition and culture cus its better, we aren't fascist" Someone give Sargon a history book, Ethno-nationalism and exceptionalism is to Fascism what worker co-ops is to Socialism.

[–]FormerlyPrettyNeat 49 ポイント50 ポイント  (23子コメント)

A minor note, perhaps, but an important one: r/badphilosophy is a no learns zone.

[–]mikiboss[S] 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Ah, fair point. I guess they really are S P O O K E D.

[–]PM_ME_YOUR_MARXAnarcho-Leninist 48 ポイント49 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Also they have a current hiatus on all political philosophy.

[–]OPCHACMO 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (0子コメント)

And thank God for that; it's an oasis in the desert.

[–]optimalgChairman of the European Union of Soviet Socialist Republics 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Man, I really wanted someplace to shitpost about John Rawls. :(

[–]mikiboss[S] 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Ah right, that I didn't know. I gues with the flood of constant flood of 'Sam Harris' posts, something should have been done. I think I was just confused by this post made a long time ago.

[–]PM_ME_YOUR_MARXAnarcho-Leninist 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh I'm sure they will be fine with posts about Ben Stiller. But the ideology subreddit wars were beginning to spill into that sub and I think everyone was alright with nipping that in the bud. It is only for 30 days though.

[–]hazardous_football 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (16子コメント)

What do you mean?

[–]FormerlyPrettyNeat 42 ポイント43 ポイント  (15子コメント)

Ah, sorry. r/badphilosophy is just a spot for venting and snark. If folks want to engage, we point them to r/askphilosophy. Half the mod team is the same in both places, and there's a lot of crossover in the userbase, too, but yeah, unlike a lot of other BadX subs, we just use it as a place to roll our eyes at the bad philosophy on Reddit.

[–]hazardous_football 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (14子コメント)

Thanks for the answer. Is there any reason for that ?

[–]Hulkkicker30 29 ポイント30 ポイント  (13子コメント)

Theres quite a few subs dedicated specifically to learning philosophy where the mods already are, and usually the people who come to ask for lrns in badphil don't want learns they just want you to waste time writing a nice detailed response for them to just go but no you're wrong.

[–]100dylan99The name of this ideology is trash can 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (12子コメント)

this makes me sad because I've learned so much from badx subs and I'm so ignorant in philosophy I wouldn't even know what to ask

[–]Hulkkicker30 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (8子コメント)

Usually if its an honest question the mods or someone just says hey look there are threads such as (insert link here) and (insert link here) that deal with this so look here first. If you still don't know then ask on askphilosophy.

Philosophy has the problem of being one of those things were we thing of it as like this everyone is subjective and noone is right thing, which then invades peoples interpretations and so on.

[–]100dylan99The name of this ideology is trash can 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (7子コメント)

I got banned for asking what the red fox reference was to

[–]Hulkkicker30 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (6子コメント)

No fucking learns guy you earned that one

[–]100dylan99The name of this ideology is trash can 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (3子コメント)

So much for the tolerant left

[–]NikolajuDanish Fascist-Socialist Polit Bureau Junta 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I got banned for being boring but I still like the sub :(

[–]throwawaypopartagain 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

If you want to learn about philosophy you can ask for some good introductory texts on /r/askphilosophy. Consider what interests you in philosophy: is it morality? The nature of science? The nature of knowledge? Politics?

[–]100dylan99The name of this ideology is trash can 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah, I have books at home that are on my reading list but I'm going into college soon and can't read more than a hundred pages of old dry text unless somebody forces me so I'm just waiting until then. Reddit comments are just more succinct and engaging and the complexities are often explained through reddit contrarianism and after the subject is discussed enough you start to have a rudimentary understanding.

[–]throwawaypopartagain 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

A good introductory text shouldn't spend more than 10 pages at a time on any one subject, and there are plenty of textbooks and similar secondary sources that - depending on your learning style - would be a lot better to investigate than "a hundred pages of old dry text", and /r/askphil should be able to help you with those.

[–]SnapshillBotSuch Dialectics! 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Wow, that's a lot of links! The snapshots can be found here.

I am a bot. (Info / Contact)

[–]mikiboss[S] 35 ポイント36 ポイント  (1子コメント)

You're not wrong Bot. After watching so many goddamn links my YouTube recommendation page is completely ruined.

[–]WontonCarter 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Might wanna clear up your YouTube watch history

[–]IronedSandwichhttp://i.imgur.com/84Ft3bf.png 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (1子コメント)

great job. have you considered becoming a video essayist?

[–]mikiboss[S] 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wow, high flattery. In reality, I don't have nearly enough time for such a thing however, which is a shame, there is some responses or critiques I would like to make. I just got a little annoyance in my head for this write up, which lead to the post you read above, and I don't know if I could sustain doing such content a repeated amount of time.

[–]TristanJeremiahNeoConservative Communist 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This post got linked in r/SargonOfAkkad and one of the comments was this

It's amazing how many people just completely fail to get the idea that it's possible to not be partisan for one particular political team. If you are not wholeheartedly on their team, the only possible interpretation for them is that you are on the enemy's team. It's pure retardation.

Theres a fine line between being nonpartisan and choosing to self identify as an ideology you don't believe in or supporting a party that goes completely against the views you claim to hold.

There are also people saying this post has no argument, even though the post is chock full of arguments. I don't get the obsession with claiming dissenters have no argument or evidence and are just reactionaries in political circles like these. They almost never provide their own evidence as to why they're wrong. This whole post is one very long argument

[–]panameboss 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Great post! I'm just wondering why you call The Guardian 'not the best source'? Obviously they're not a peer-reviewed journal but otherwise I would say they are quite reliable.

[–]mikiboss[S] 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fair point, but for most of the other sources I wanted to try and use sources which either only vaguely endorsed a candidate or endorsed a candidate other to Corbyn in this case. The Guardian in of itself isn't a terrible source, but one would be remiss of calling it more Bias than other online journalism.

[–]NikolajuDanish Fascist-Socialist Polit Bureau Junta 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The Guardian is basically a tabloid at this point.

[–]Psydonk 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (1子コメント)

as Venezuela’s economy issues were mostly down to over-nationalization of businesses creating an unstable economy

This part I disagree with.

Venezuelas economic issues are complicated and are actually a lot of things brought together to create a massive shitstorm.

Largely the biggest impact is the collapse in oil prices along with the Global Financial Crisis crashing and burning the attempt in the 2000s to Diversify the economy. This lead to classic Dutch Disease, amplified by the fact that Venezuelas economy was massive import based.

But it isn't the nationalization, though poor nationalization has taken a toll. It's the clusterfuck of monetary policy that has really lead to the current crisis. Along with the PSUV being paralyzed by the political situation in the country.

https://www.counterpunch.org/2016/05/25/does-venezuelas-crisis-prove-socialism-doesnt-work/

Very indepth article on the whole range of economic and political issues the PSUV has found itself in.

On Sargon, the dude is just a reactionary hiding behind "i'm really center-left guys!". Fascists have always been incredibly slippery with rhetoric and anything concretely ideological. Take his actions, not his words to show what he really supports. Would a "classical liberal" really support hard-right authoritarian politicians and parties? Of course not.

[–]mikiboss[S] 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You do make a very good point actually, and brought some things about Venezuela to my attention. Honestly it seems more like analysing Venezuela is like an episode of 'Air Crash Disasters', with everything going wrong and people trying to find what tipped the economy over. Whether it was an over reliance on oil, 'The Crash', over nationalization, less trade, inflation, inflation and the pathetic planners in the Venezuelan government, they all likely played varying parts in the current situation, and people mainly focus on one to further their ideological agenda. I mostly focused on the Nationalization aspect because that was what i believe Sargon was trying to (and failed to) address in relation to Corbyn's labour, although those were some excellent points you raised.

And thanks for seeing through Sargon's 'Center-Left' facade as well. While I don't necessarily think that he is a fascist or anything even close to that extreme. I just think that he someone who's entire political values are vouched in an opposition to 'Social Justice', which is fine, but don't piss on my leg and tell me it's 'Classic Liberalism', just wish Sargon come out and admit his agenda and didn't talk about topics he clearly has very little understanding of.

[–]Power_Wrist 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (3子コメント)

First of all, thank you for your service. I did have one niggling question though - why?

Assuming he has an ounce of self-reflection and knows what he's doing (big assumption) why would he only support the parties that would dismantle what he values? Is it just a rhetorical flourish to lure in liberals?

The little conspiracy guy in my head is yelling about rubles in his wall safe, but that's just a sign of the times.

[–]mikiboss[S] 44 ポイント45 ポイント  (1子コメント)

My theory, as I hinted in the conclusion is that he is basicly a person who claims to be a liberal and bolster support for non-establishment candidates to boost his popularity. This is likely for him to gain support from the right and the SJW hating cenerists for his patreon and ad revenue. It doesn't matter what he personally believes in this situation, as he doesn't care either, he just seems to display flexible values. This Would be comparable to someone like Glenn Beck on TV, a moderate conservative who later admitted that much of his extreme views presented in his show were not his beliefs. This is the best situation for Sargon's outlook, as if he does actually believe these statements, then he is an individual with no principle and little understand of politics beyond headlines.

[–]VirusnzzSoviet socialism is the only socialism -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Possibly. I wouldn't take such a negative view of him, since we don't really know him and what he's about internally. I'd say that, like a lot of people, he's just a guy who has has kneejerk political opinions and has the vocabulary to justify them retroactively on a surface level, as opposed to beginning with a set of principles and building a set of policy positions based on them. A lot of people do this, but those people don't also happen to be keen amateur political commentators who enjoy making videos on the subject.

I don't watch him or know much about his videos except seeing a couple of snippets, but if I had to guess based on what you've said (assuming you've accurately described him), I'd say he's got deeper tendencies he's not vocalising accurately that are underlying his preferences, but he still does in fact value liberal tenets, even if he is not willing to see them to their logical conclusion in most contexts because of another underlying value or bias.

As for his followers, they're probably not to dissimilar to him in their tendencies, probably young (maybe 18-26) and just starting to form a political conscience of their own. At that point, it's pretty hard to properly vet what someone is saying, and someone with an established community who speaks clearly with points that have superficial appeal and align with your own instinctive reactions most of the time is a tempting person to follow. When describing his popularity, the deeper cogency of his arguments is going to be at best a minor benefit, if not a harm when a point takes serious careful explanation.

[–]leisuresandwhich 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I sometimes wondered if he is a storm front stooge trying to sell conservative views to a left leaning liberal audience. Like a Richard Spencer-lite. Mostly due to him spouting re purposed Nazi propaganda like cultural marxism, only associating with fascists and open support for Trump.

But having seen him in debates he seems fairly honest and it just seems like he is intellectually lazy (even by Internet standards). He is just a not particularly bright person who lacks self awareness and is blessed with a non-working class british accent. Eventually slipped into a far-right echo chamber due to his anti-fem stance and everyone on the (actual) left thinking he is a joke and has been there since.

Also yt reactionaries make a loads of money for doing nothing.

[–]ThatGreekLadyMakes Hitler look like an anarchist 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I am ashamed that I used to like Sargon. I thought he seriously jumped the shark after he seemed to support Le Pen over Macron, which is astonishing considering Sargon's supposedly liberal views.

[–]mikiboss[S] 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Don't be so ashamed, I think all of us went through out 'Rational' or 'Skeptic' phase. But the best way to approach it is to just look back and laugh, realising you are so much more informed now. And after spending so much time on this post, I can only look longingly at the young audience he has gathered and think, that they too will eventually abandon their Sargon.

[–]CapitalismAndFreedom 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I know this is necro-posting. But I wanted to say that I like the way you are going about this. As an ex-fan of sargon myself (And I am still sympathetic a bit to Sargon the person, but his politics are just silly) you are being decently respectful of a guy whose opinions are frankly not so respectful. Good on you. A lot of people take to name calling very quickly, which does not persuade people into ditching their Sargon. Again good job.

[–]mikiboss[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Awww, Thanks man! The way I see it, regardless of your personal view of a person, name calling may get you more attention, but it certainty doesn't help your case. I could insult Sargon for the time he couldn't get the type of Flag right, or the times that he actually used Cultural Marxism as a serious point of contention, but I don't think that really helps my case. After all, I think we all know what it's like to create a response and to be met with someone yelling "Not an argument". So in by best attempt to educate and inform people who may be fans, I decided not to directly insult in, and just provide some, of the many, many reasons on why he is a useless commentator. Finally, if I boiled my argument down to name calling, I think people would either say that I didn't provide an argument, or was trying to advocate for a political opinion, and by approaching it in a formal and rational (heh) manor, then It would be entertaining and effective as possible.

[–]CapitalismAndFreedom 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exactly, persuasion in politics is like a lost art nowadays. It's posts like yours that made me see that sargon, while talking a big game about using classic political philosophers, has a woeful misunderstanding of them at best. I emphasize with sargon, because I like reading classics too and I think if I didn't get moderated out of it then I would've wound up like him.

[–]DanFortesqueII 30 ポイント31 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I like this post. I Need to copy paste this as an answer when someone asks me why I call Sargon a C**T ...

[–]mikiboss[S] 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks, after searching for some political videos and repeatedly having his videos filling up my recommendations tab, I had enough and just sorta obsessed over mocking and berating him. I hope you liked the included quotes as well, as i just wanted to add a little humor and substance to the post. And after how much time I spend watching and writing this up, feel free to use it as liberally as you wish!

[–]FuckTripleH 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Can someone please explain why he named himself after Sargon? Like is it related to his views somehow or is just a fan of ancient Mesopotamia or what?

Seems like an oddly obscure historical figure to pick.

[–]mikiboss[S] 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (1子コメント)

This is the closest thing I can find about him talking about the actual Sargon. For my knowledge, he was just a cool historical figure who he considered a badass and did a lot of things which he saw as admirable. No real connection beyond that. I just pity the young student who is instructed into covering the Akkadian empire and types in the name 'Sargon' into Google and is flooded with this guy and his not even half baked political ideas.

[–]video_descriptionbot 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

SECTION CONTENT
Title Heroes of History: Sargon of Akkad, the First Emperor
Description Who was Sargon of Akkad and why was he such a raging badass?
Length 0:34:10

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[–]IronedSandwichhttp://i.imgur.com/84Ft3bf.png 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

completely write off*

[–]GentlemanJimothySo you're basically Hitler 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Man, that was a long read, but interesting and well structured. Great job!

[–]AjaxSuited 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

One question, new here, what is so bad about the Political Compass or 8 Values test?

[–]PlowbeastKeeper of the 35th Edition of the Politically Correct Code 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I can't speak to either one specifically but others like this seem to be more personality tests or clumsy attempts at some grand unified demographics theory that aren't particularly helpful for analysis. Even the axis method is kind of iffy depending on the situation and generally considered only an initial step for political science research. (See all of our posts mocking different axes marked "Chart")

Check out this study of the five different types of Trump voter for instance

While I'm sure it has flaws, it has a specific methodology for drilling down cohorts that takes into account habits, previous demographic data, and a more fine-tuned look at issues. Image of cohort polling here

The results offer a pretty good look at a voter coalition and their sometimes divergent goals that those two tests would gloss over.

If you prefer just a straight up across the board political values test or database, I highly recommend the World Values Survey which attempts to group political beliefs from people across dozens of countries going back to the 1980's.

[–]TristanJeremiahNeoConservative Communist 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Have you heard of the ISideWith test? How accurate would you say it is? Is there an alternative that also assesses stances of specific candidates?

[–]Lunarsunset0 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I found your analysis of Sargon to be pretty spot on. I've watched Sargon's videos for the past 3 years. During that time I found him to be someone who criticized both the right and left with some biases to one side yet remained fair. To be honest I found him to be an asshole at first. After watching my first video of his trying to expose the guys at "Extra Credits" for hypocrisy I really disliked the guy, but he pulled me in somehow and I've watch a lot of his videos since then.

Though in the past year he went down a hole that he seems to continue to fall down. Criticizing the left seems to be his only goal, not taking the time of day to make some real criticisms of Trump or those on the right-wing. I've lately been turned off by his videos but will still watch them periodically, but a lot of his videos are beginning to feel like the same boring talking points of his old videos. I really missed when he had videos all about history or just talked history but he just stopped on those videos, and seems interested only in discussing politics and ideologies.

[–]mikiboss[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The fact is that that is what gives him views. Regardless of if you lobe or loath his content, he has to get paid at the end of the day. I guarantee if he had these private views and produced videos about history or other topics, he would even make a half of what he makes on patreon. I wouldn't be surprised if many of his views are fabricated or exaggerated for to the amount of contradictions he makes, as those views make money and get him popular.