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Trinity clarifying her comments. (twitter.com)

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トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]AnthoZeroTrinity Taylor 581 ポイント582 ポイント  (103子コメント)

Wait, people actually think bio queens should be allowed on the show? Cmon people, let the gay men and trans women have something. You can be inclusive and an ally in so many different ways but you seriously don't need to have everything.

[–]nonailsnodragTrinity Taylor 116 ポイント117 ポイント  (5子コメント)

this. I think if they wanted to do like a spin off show with Bio queens I would definitely watch it. But they don't need to be on drag race

[–]trevor5everAssociate Justice Neil Gorsuch 68 ポイント69 ポイント  (4子コメント)

They did. It was called Drag U.

[–]an-actual-squidsanta claus is comin to snatch ur fuckin weave u shook ass bitch 40 ポイント41 ポイント  (1子コメント)

gurl it was really a rough spot

[–]COOLMOMSTERTRUCKSasha Velour 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

it changed peoples lives

[–]TheThirdSleeperNina Bo'Nina Shoulda Won Season 9 Brown 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Or more seriously Skin Wars/Face Off.

[–]nonailsnodragTrinity Taylor 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Competent professional Bio queens.

[–]ShadowPaintedRoseSasha Velour 98 ポイント99 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I agree with all of this except the idea that bioqueens are inherently just allies. There are plenty of bioqueens who are bi or lesbian, not to mention people who identify as nonbinary women. Bioqueen does not always equal cis and straight.

[–]mirrordonutValentina 56 ポイント57 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Right, all the bioqueens I know/know of are queer.

I'm not sure that bioqueens are right for RPDR but I disagree with the premise that women/AFABs can't use drag to rebel against gender norms or otherwise fuck around with the idea of gender.

[–]ShadowPaintedRoseSasha Velour 30 ポイント31 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I have no issue with RPDR not including bioqueens, but I've always felt there's a difference between "It's okay that RPDR doesn't have bioqueens" and "fuck bioqueens, having them would ruin RPDR." The former is totally okay and that's pretty much where I stand. The latter is borderline misogynistic and kind of degrading to other kinds of drag.

Regardless, Trinity seems to be in the first category of people, so I don't really know what the big deal is. People are seriously overreacting; it's not like she's attacking the validity of bioqueens!

At the end of the day, it's Ru's show, and I'll be okay whether she ever includes bioqueens or not. I think it would be a cool addition, as long as they are held to the same standards, but I'm not going to riot if it never happens.

[–]mirrordonutValentina 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well said, I agree on every point.

[–]promking6969انت خنيث[S] 162 ポイント163 ポイント  (34子コメント)

Welcome to the PC era of Drag Race <3

[–]AnthoZeroTrinity Taylor 151 ポイント152 ポイント  (27子コメント)

I'm a raging liberal but I think people really need to realize that drag was built on the foundation to MAKE FUN OF PEOPLE. Seriously getting out of hand, unless someone is genuinely being a racist/bigoted asshole and is putting others down, there's no reason to cause a hissy fit. Focus on the LARGE aspects of societal bigotry, not on what a drag queen says as a joke. Yes, there's a time and a place to address bigotry, but it's not ALWAYS the time to cry over it.

[–]promking6969انت خنيث[S] 90 ポイント91 ポイント  (14子コメント)

Have you seen the reactions drag race girls are getting if they even try and be negative? Shea was DRAGGED and everyone was "dissapointed" because she pulled the receipts at the reunion. It's sad what this fanbase has become. Luckily Ru isn't here for bio queens so SJW's can go back to their holes.

[–]AnthoZeroTrinity Taylor 60 ポイント61 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I think it's mostly the straight teenaged girls and the teen gay boys that are causing all of this. Please, realize that everything is meant to be for you, and respecting people even if they don't respect others is key.

[–]Fatty_Patty_Ratty 31 ポイント32 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Trust and believe as a teenager I completely understand why having bioqueens would ruin the sanctity of the show

[–]kodakbringback 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (2子コメント)

ew why would a teen gay guy want bioqueens we want more milks and Sasha belles

[–]slashflingingslasher 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Only girls who done did crack the code

[–]Electra_Storm#BringBackMillennialCarCrash 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Gurrl, did you just forget to include daddy Malaysian Cartwheel?

[–]whatwhatboatSasha Velour 35 ポイント36 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I know a lot of SJWs that wouldn't stand for this shit, don't get it twisted that letting straight people take spots on shows for queer people as something SJWs are super into

[–]DaphneTuringSasha Velour -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I don't undestand the presumption that Bio-queens are straight women....Most of the ones I know are queer or gender non-binary, or even ftm trans-men. Pretty asshole assumption for you to members of our community (Its LGBT REMEMBER?)

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    コメントをもっと表示する (12 返事)

      [–]iminfwanceValentina 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      we have gone mainstream now so it was bound to happen.

      [–]burntfishnchipsAja 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      And Ru thought drag wouldn't go mainstream. Well, here we are.

      [–]MaidenOfBlackWaterAll you ladies pop yo pussy like Dis 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      To a certain extent this isn't true. Its the show that has gotten very popular, not drag itself.

      [–]burntfishnchipsAja 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      True that. There are still people who would rather spend hundreds to see a Ru girl than $10 to support a local Queen that pisses me off.

      [–]nivoragrandma's vag 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Sasha's impact

      [–]Lola_flowers✨Generic fan fav flair✨👑〰👁👄 27 ポイント28 ポイント  (22子コメント)

      What about gay women and trans men?

      [–]AnthoZeroTrinity Taylor 103 ポイント104 ポイント  (17子コメント)

      Gay women being drag queens is still bioqueens and it's not really breaking societies gender norms, and I'm not sure if there is such thing is trans men being drag queens. If there are, then I guess I wouldn't be super opposed to it, but cis women shouldn't really be able to be on the show.

      Anyone can do drag, but not everyone should be able to do drag race.

      [–]DaphneTuringSasha Velour 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      How does it not break gender norms? Its become a norm that only gay men can portray women in the over-the-top way that drag queens do, so allowing cis-women to do that breaks that trend.

      Also lest we forget, Lady Gaga is basically a fucking Bio-Queen and is worshiped by a sect of the LGBT community.

      [–]maskedbanditoftruth 29 ポイント30 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I mean, I know more than one transman who does drag. And it's incredibly powerful and confronting for them because it's taking on the imagery of the gender they were forced to perform for so long. It's almost always amazing.

      [–]SidanArchion 63 ポイント64 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      I also think we can't forget that Drag Kings are very much a thing. I've always wanted a side season of Drag Race with that focus. Imagine a snatch game with a bunch of lesbians and trans men doing Sinatra and Kanye. I would gag!

      [–]Oh1samaJaymes Mansfield 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      and someone can do Michelle Visage!

      [–]BabybearbearI will subpoena Nina 30 ポイント31 ポイント  (7子コメント)

      There are definitely FTM drag queens - Luka Ghost and Zoe Loft are just two that I am personally friends with but there are many more.

      [–]AnthoZeroTrinity Taylor 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (4子コメント)

      I'm not really against FTM people on the show, because they are men. This might sound a little bit rude but I can see cis women saying they're trans to get on the show.

      [–]BabybearbearI will subpoena Nina 46 ポイント47 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      And therein lies the issue with gender policing. Now transwomen basically have to wait to fully transition until after the show, or at least that seems to be what some people are suggesting. It's tricky for sure.

      [–]ljb9I'M LJB9 AND I'M HERE TO MAKE IT CLEAR 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      This might sound a little bit rude but I can see cis women saying they're trans to get on the show.

      I'm sorry but it just sounded like this:

      This might sound a little bit rude but I can see men saying they're trans to get in the women's bathroom.

      (in short, gender policing is real.)

      [–]1317093 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Not to sound rude, but how would that be judged? You can't really judge a person's gender apart from what they tell you... would the guy have to have a diagnosis/be on hrt/transition to be considered eligible?

      [–]bl_isaSasha Velour 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      this is the dangerous territory it gets into imo...when you start having to "test" trans people to decide if it's ok for them to drag. It often becomes rhetoric about how trans women who don't pass can do drag, but trans women who are too feminine or too passing can't because it's "unfair." Or if you start trying to decide who's "trans enough" to be on the show. Like, can a femme non-binary person be on the show? Are they trans enough?

      That's why, imo, if we're going to be destroying gender tropes/codified gender norms then it's best to not, ya know, exclude based on gender. Cuz there's no telling where that ends. And who gets to be the judge of who's ____ enough.

      [–]baixiaolangShea Couleé 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      I love Luka!

      [–]BabybearbearI will subpoena Nina 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Luka is amaaaaazing 😍

      [–]Lola_flowers✨Generic fan fav flair✨👑〰👁👄 27 ポイント28 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      It's not really breaking societies gender norms

      Well, that's your opinion, I think they can satirize gender norms too. And my comment was about the "let us have something" part, I think there're more people who should have their something too

      [–]bl_isaSasha Velour 35 ポイント36 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      tbh this sub is incredible cis gay male-centric. I keep seeing people posting about "cis women in gay spaces" around here, like did yall forget lesbians and queer and bi women exist?

      [–]Lola_flowers✨Generic fan fav flair✨👑〰👁👄 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Probably, the majority of this sub are cis gay male. People tends to be egocentric, so I'm not surprised

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        [–]GottbackAja 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (29子コメント)

        Is that fair? Bc a lot of bio queens are also queer...and in the LGBT etc scene, queer women are pretty underrepresented.

        [–]Gamer10123Shea Couleé 128 ポイント129 ポイント  (7子コメント)

        The thing is, Drag Race isn't "problematic" for not allowing every single kind of queer person on the show... It's not meant to be discriminatory, it's just there are so many different kinds of queer people to the point it would be hard to make the competition and narrative fit everyone. The show's humor is very "gay", and a lot of the show's narrative has involved queens telling the struggles of being a gay (or possibly bi) male in society and turning to drag to express themselves. The show has now officially opened itself up to trans women, which is great because it tells the story of how one can discover and embrace their trans identity through drag while doing drag and being trans are still two separate things, and they still fit in just fine with the show's challenges and narrative. It's different than a cis woman being on Drag Race because being openly trans in and of itself is challenging the norms and ideas society in general has about gender.

        I'm sure there are fierce, talented bio queens out there, but they aren't challenging gender norms in the same way, and it would just be too many narratives happening at once for one show to the point the show could get a bit all over the place. I don't really know if they'd be able to connect with the show's humor as naturally either. It's not Drag Race's responsibility to represent every queer person out there, and it would be quite hard to do so. It seems like since it's one of the few shows that celebrates a certain part of queer culture so much, some people have this idea that the show has a duty to showcase everyone. Blame the mainstream media in general for the lack of visible queer women, not Drag Race.

        [–]PerslaysaKayAre We Still Talking About Beavers...? 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        It's not Drag Race's responsibility to represent every queer person out there

        THIS IS THE T. this sentence is the gem buried inside a lot of other insightful sentences here. When Ru himself explains why he doesn't plan on having drag kings or bio queens on RPDR, THIS is why.

        [–]ljb9I'M LJB9 AND I'M HERE TO MAKE IT CLEAR 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        I think this should have been the tuck's answer

        [–]comfortablejoe#WaterOffADucksBack 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

        They can be drag kings! And they are!

        [–]Gamer10123Shea Couleé 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        Even though drag kings are also doing a form of drag, I feel like it's still a very different art form that just wouldn't fit on the show. It would require its own show IMO. How would drag kings fit in in a challenge like Kardashian--The Musical or 9021-HO where all the characters they have to portray are female? Also, I feel like it would oftentimes be hard to compare a drag king runway look to a drag queen runway look during judging.

        [–]comfortablejoe#WaterOffADucksBack 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Oh yeah, it would have to totally be a different show.

        [–]syntheticromanceSasha Velour 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Lesbian bio queen here. I never wanted to be a drag king because it took the colorful and "femme" parts of makeup out of drag for me. I'm a feminine person and also have a short, fat, feminine body so being a king really isn't an option for me.

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          [–]BoBoPasteles 56 ポイント57 ポイント  (12子コメント)

          Great, but they should have their own platform and not hijack another one. Drag queen culture was mainly being participated in by gay men and transgender women, during an era were you could be legally be persecuted for wearing feminine clothing. The idea of drag is to mock gender expectations and the unrealistic goals women often were require to do. It isn't adding to the already obvious statement of makeup and being femme.

          We have queer women in the sense of drag kings, but nobody cares about them, because it doesn't mean putting up ton of femme makeup to enhances was already there. So bio queens are more exciting and revolutionizing /s

          If anything, I would prefer to have drag kings on Drag Race, because it at least matches up to a stunning and considerable transformation.

          [–]AnthoZeroTrinity Taylor 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (6子コメント)

          I don't know how we'll drag kings will translate into the format of drag race. I'm not sure if there's a lot of fashion options for men's clothing (unfortunately it's usually stagnant), but other aspects might work. I just think it'd be weird to see them in suits every episode idk.

          [–]fullmoonhermit 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          I would love it there was a drag king show that incorporated lesbian and butch culture and trends. I think it could be extremely fun. Maybe start off as a YouTube series ala Dragula.

          [–]BoBoPasteles 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (3子コメント)

          I think if they have the creative input and can see beyond common fashion trends, Drag Kings can come up with exciting outfits instead of the common suit. Also, many Drag Queens wear the common gown, so this argument falls a bit flat.

          To be fair, there's a lot of potential in the Drag King art form. I'm excited to see how much it can expand and evolve. At least is more interesting than Bio Queens.

          [–]AnthoZeroTrinity Taylor 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          If they're going to do a drag king show, I want it to last. I don't want them to be thrown under the bus and be fucked over ala DragU

          [–]pxlarisingAja 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          i'd love to see a format involving drag kings. there's a lot more to it than just taping the girls down and painting on a beard.

          i'd also love to see something that's not even gendered. like, for a show so focused on gender fuckery, i wish we could see the drag that lies somewhere in the middle. not too common, but it could be interesting for a challenge. some kind of androgynous look, similar to how milk did boy ru on the runway.

          [–]SidanArchion 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Seconded!

          [–]injaeia#DragKingsForSashaVelour 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          I'm a king and I wear a lot of various kinds of clothing! It's a lot tougher to create interesting looks on the spot like queens can, so sewing challenges might not really work for kings (let's be real - if needed a queen could drape strips of chiffon over her shoulders and then belt them into a petal dress, but a king can't really do anything like that). But with some creativity you can definitely get outside of traditional menswear looks for runway. I only own, I think, 4 suits?

          コメントをもっと表示する (5 返事)

            [–]j_hennyShea Couleé 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (1子コメント)

            I def agree. Where I'm from there's a lot of queens who are bio or non binary and their drag is amazing

            [–]GottbackAja 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Yeah, I'm from Chicago and it's all over, but Chicago is relatively open and warm and accepting and not super gender inclusive.

            [–]derickjlPeppermint 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Is there a long history of queer cis women doing feminine drag though? (Honest question here)

            The art form of drag has played an important role in the gay and trans communities for decades, so it makes sense (to me, at least) to restrict the limited spots on RPDR to members of these two communities.

            This debate makes me think about voguing. As a white person, I would feel uncomfortable requesting to walk a ball. It's one thing to learn how to vogue and gag over the sickening dance moves; it's another thing to think I deserve a coveted spot on an international platform over someone from the black/latinx community.

            [–]promking6969انت خنيث[S] 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            You've watched the show, you've supported the show. Looks like you think it's fair. Also, the show is meant to showcase Gay men who have been ridculed and more in a positive light, that's a big component. You know, GENTLEMEN start your engines...

            [–]AnthoZeroTrinity Taylor 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (2子コメント)

            Personally I don't think queer women/ cis women are oppressed and misrepresented the way gay/trans women are. Sure we can go on and fight about who's "less privilaged", but it doesn't really matter, because if Ru wants a bio queen on the show she'll add one, and I don't think she will.

            [–]HerbingtonWrexKatya Zamolodchikova 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Except we are expected to pretend transwomen are the SAME as bio women 99% of the time. It's offensive to misgender. It's offensive to say in any way that a transwoman isn't a woman. It's ILLEGAL to imply that a transwoman is anything other than a woman in many jurisdictions now.

            But apparently, on drag race, transwomen are suddenly not actually women just like biowomen. Suddenly, it's fine to admit that this is actually a man who has transitioned his gender expression. Suddenly, it's all well and good. Suddenly there's an undeniable DIFFERENCE.

            It's sexist as shit. You can co-opt women's gender to suit yourself, but when you want to get on reality tv, oh, suddenly you're not exactly the same anymore.

            Uh, okay. Sure.

            [–]iminfwanceValentina 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            THIS (clap) RIGHT (clap) HERE (clap)

            [–]montenigerSasha Velour 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Completely agree. I'm j the other hand I would love to see a drag king show of sorts

            [–]123barTrinity Taylor 113 ポイント114 ポイント  (5子コメント)

            Trinity said Bio Queens shouldn't be on drag race because drag race is about the transformation of gay men to women.

            She also did say that there should be a show that's all inclusive and which can include bio queens. Trinity just doesn't think Bio Queens belong on drag race, which I agree with. She never discredited them.. just said they don't belong on RPDR.

            ++ on another note, Rupauls drag race is a show about DRAG QUEENS.

            It's like wondering why Honey BooBoo can't be in Keeping Up With The Kardashians. If drag kings and bio queens want to be included in this reality tv mess, they can get their own show for it. And I'd gladly watch it and stan for them.

            [–]clearlyclassySasha Velour 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (4子コメント)

            I've been thinking about how a show like that would work. What if instead of a contest, they fashioned it after an old-school variety show? I think if the point of it is to showcase with as much inclusiveness as possible, making it a competition is practically worthless because it would be impossible to compare such wildly different acts. I feel like variety shows were a staple of television we're missing now, and it would be so cool to incorporate queer and retro kitsch into it.

            [–]blipq✨ magical bitch ✨ 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (2子コメント)

            I think it would be interesting to have a youtube-based series ala dragula that could incorporate queens who are women/nb, drag kings, and performers of all genders whose drag is more androgynous/genderfuck, competing in a structure that is more self-directed with prompts and challenges that are open to diverse interpretation. I think it would be interesting to get the performers to collaborate on group challenges to see how they could adapt each others' styles (and maybe encourage some drag siblinghood? ha)

            [–]clearlyclassySasha Velour 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

            Is it wishy-washy yet still self-congratulatory of me to say I love both these ideas?

            [–]blipq✨ magical bitch ✨ 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            I already typed the phrase "I think it would be interesting" twice in my own post so it's whatever

            [–]SonjaVanDuzerTrinity Taylor 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            These people just want a piece of the cake too. Contestants go from kinda known/heard about to FAMOUS the moment the cast is announced for every season. Young fanbase (13-23) is going to be the demise of the show....

            [–]appakardashianTrinity Taylor 60 ポイント61 ポイント  (2子コメント)

            I really wish all these people who are so fed up with what these drag queens do/say/think would actually put all that effort into trying to change our current political climate rather than just rant on twitter about gay men in wigs. Let's focus on the orange man in a wig how about that?

            [–]MaidenOfBlackWaterAll you ladies pop yo pussy like Dis 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Don't do Coco like that.

            [–]slashflingingslasher 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            That's the beauty of Twitter, theres only people who love to talk yet do nothing.

            [–]sneaselKimora Blac 55 ポイント56 ポイント  (4子コメント)

            Are y'all willfully ignorant of the political, social, historical, and so on differences between trans women and cis women? They are both equally women but there's an obvious reason TRANS and CIS are before women. Peppermint is 100% a woman but she is also a TRANS woman in all of her beauty. There are specific laws and policies instated and trying to be instated to get trans women the rights, health care, and so on that they deserve and especially when it comes to health care these aren't the same things cis women need. My point is, Trans women and cis women are different and both still women 100%. They hold different positions and spaces in society. That's why trans women doing drag and being on drag race is rightfully completely different than the notion Bioqueens "deserve" or should have the "right" to be on drag race lol..

            [–]sylviaplinth 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            They hold different positions and spaces in society.

            exactly, it basically comes down to the fact that trans womens experiences led to them having a founding role in drag and shaping its attitudes to gender

            a cis womans perspective on subverting social attitudes about gender identity isn't as valuable as a trans womans and cis women have their own spaces to discuss their gender without invading those of gay men and trans women

            [–]Annoying_DetailsNina Bo'nina Brown 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            YES! Exactly.

            Even I, a queer cis woman recognize that as hard as I have it with gender norms/expectations, any non-cis woman has it at least 900 times worse.

            Trans women especially have to present more feminine just to be recognized as human in some parts of the world - it's a case of moving goalposts and never being good enough that I only know a fraction of.

            We face similar issues and we are sisters - but they have it worse.

            So if I wanted to do drag, while it may be satire for me, it's SUBVERSIVE for her. And for any man (cis or otherwise).

            Both valid artforms/drag, but very different in their source and social/historical context.

            コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

              [–]infinitynow27Leigh Bowery abstract entity 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              i think the other point we are missing is that trinity's clarification is a screencap from this reddit sub. she's reading us! or at least u/clearlyclassy

              [–]clearlyclassySasha Velour 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              I seriously just lost my mind a little bit.

              [–]cucuqweenShea Couleé 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (4子コメント)

              Thank you. Just another reason to love Trinity. I get it, bio queens are very talented in their craft but RPDR isn't their show.

              [–]losthedgehog 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (3子コメント)

              And excluding them from this format in drag race doesn't mean excluding them from the community or gigs.

              [–]cucuqweenShea Couleé 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

              I may be too high but I just thought of this- If you're going to a party and you've been told to pick up chips. So, you're in the chip aisle and see brownies. You know you like brownies but you know they aren't really needed at the party. If that makes sense which it probably doesn't.

              [–]LanaDeliTraymuenster in ur closet 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              i think a better example is comparing Drag Race to American Idol--popular show, showcases lots of talents, but you aren't gonna see ALL types of music represented, because that's not what American Idol was intended for. it's a show to find a new hit pop/rock/sometimes country singer; you aren't gonna find America's Next Metal Band Frontman on there.

              [–]losthedgehog 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              That makes sense but you also definitely have the munchies!

              [–]Pink_Flash 120 ポイント121 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              Because it's our show, and not yours.

              [–]nonailsnodragTrinity Taylor 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhuhhhhhhhhhhhh

              [–]reaperdausy 49 ポイント50 ポイント  (6子コメント)

              I think we've come to a point where the show and a portion of the fans or the public in general are taking it all just a little bit too seriously. Drag race started out so tongue in cheek, parodying it's predecessors like ANTM (which also jumped the shark incredibly when it went pc and said okay time to make everyone in the world happy) and it's gotten to a point where every single thing a queen or the show says or does is taken out of context, or its taken offensively, or just plain dragged through the mud. It's out of control. The fact is, Trinity is being dragged for an opinion, the outcome of which, frankly is out of her hands because as someone said before, if Ru wants bioqueens she's gonna cast them. Drag U has proven that Mama Ru has nothing against a good faux queen, so one never knows. The construct of the show would change greatly with that, she isn't wrong. It's an inevitability.

              TL;DR : Shit is taken too seriously and change is inevitable. in my best Chris Crocker voice Leave Trinity Alone

              [–]mattatvtEureka O'Hara 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (5子コメント)

              I realized fully how ridiculous people have become when Courtney got dragged for making a harmless joke about wanting to have sex with one of the Jedward twins, literally having tons of people saying she was offensive and inappropriate for the most vanilla joke i have ever heard

              [–]valiyumMagnesium Crawfish for AS3 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              To be fair it was the Jedward fans who were offended not the drag race fans. Jedward fans are even more insane apparently.

              [–]HoydenCaulfieldSasha Velour 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Jedward fans are almost as extra as Jedward themselves, which is a whole lot of extra

              [–]WWSJPDWhitney Houston was my David Bowie 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

              Which twin?

              [–]GrotesquetteSasha Velour 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              The white one.

              [–]iminfwanceValentina 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              latrice laugh

              [–]alexthenotadragqueenSasha Velour 95 ポイント96 ポイント  (2子コメント)

              I'm PC and leftist as shit but this pisses me off. Not every space is meant for everyone. This is like cishet straight girls insisting they should be allowed in gay clubs because "we feel unsafe at straight clubs too!" 1. if you want Drag Race to continue to be a good show, it can't try to represent all drag it doesn't even represent all forms of drag queens. 2. LET GAY PEOPLE HAVE A PLATFORM THAT SHOWCASES THEM AND ONLY THEM. I mean sure as a queer woman I'd love to see more representation of queer women on TV, but it's better to create a new platform for that than trying to shoe all queer representation into one show

              [–]dsaitkenJaymes Mansfield 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              I don't bother going to my local gay nightclub anymore because it is literally 75% straight women. It might as well just be a drag cabaret now and not call itself a gay nightclub

              [–]reaperdausy 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Yes this!

              [–]RosaPalmsTired-Ass Showgirl 52 ポイント53 ポイント  (2子コメント)

              RuPaul's AMAB Race (Start your engines) RuPaul's AMAB Race (May the best gay man, trans woman, or non-binary XY chromosomatic human wi-i-in)

              [–]pxlarisingAja 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              i'm late to the drama but this is difficult, because trinity is dealing with twitter fans who differ vastly to others in demographics and shit. not saying they're bad people, but it's a difficult issue to address without causing problems to one group or another.

              personally, i'd love to see a format involving drag kings. there's a lot more to it than just taping the girls down and painting on a beard. i'd also love to see something that's not even gendered. like, for a show so focused on gender fuckery, i wish we could see the drag that lies somewhere in the middle. not too common, but it could be interesting for a challenge. some kind of androgynous look, similar to how milk did boy ru on the runway.

              i love bio queens but i don't think drag race is for them. even if they are queer or non-binary or something, lesbians and gay men have their own separate brands of humour and in-jokes, and there's less 'gender rule-breaking' when it's a cis woman becoming a costume-y cis woman, admittedly. but i do understand where people are coming from with the argument about 'cis women not being allowed on when trans women are means that you don't see the latter as real women'. the difference is that trans women have faced a lot more just to exist as women, whereas cis women (like myself) have not. sure, there's still problems with sexism, but trans women have helped to shape the lgbt community and i think it's unfair to assume that they will/are always equal. unfortunately we are not. we are equal in that, yes, we are women whether biologically or otherwise, but i have not had to 'prove' myself as a woman nor have i ever faced serious threats due to that.

              the best thing you could do is support local drag artists who aren't traditional drag queens, i.e. kings and bio queens and just any performance artists that mess with gender in some way. drag race is mostly about exposure now, and those artists - as great as it would be to give them said exposure - mostly just need a platform to showcase their work since anyone who isn't 'cis man in wig' is usually unheard of. they aren't any less valid because they haven't been on a reality tv show. but they still need that support.

              [–]snatchedgames✨Id like to keep it on please✨ 37 ポイント38 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Agreed drag race isn't meant for bio queens

              [–]alexthenotadragqueenSasha Velour 27 ポイント28 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              I love Trinity but sometimes I swear she needs to stop responding to people on Twitter and giving them attention when they pull shit like this.

              [–]gymtwink 116 ポイント117 ポイント  (15子コメント)

              We already have enough forced white mediocrity no need to add cis white females. "Becky what would you say to your 5yr old self?" "Life was so hard before i learned about trixie and katya on tumblr!! Stay strong Betty Sue JoAnne!"

              [–]PipotchiPeppermint 30 ポイント31 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Becky Sue JoAnne got to the top 3 and eliminated trixie chi chi and trinity in as5 i could not believe it

              [–]losthedgehog 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              I wonder if these same fans realize their fav, Katya, has said the same thing as Trinity.

              At the Roscoes q&a she said bioqueens are great but it's a different show... where was the outrage there?

              [–]elusive-chanteuseTrinity Taylor 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Frame this.

              [–]oath2order🐍JUSTICE FOR TEDSMITTS🐍 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              I love you omg

              コメントをもっと表示する (11 返事)

                [–]deanevangeliouShea Couleé 41 ポイント42 ポイント  (18子コメント)

                tbh people who get offended that bioqueens aren't on the show are the same people who say the A in LGBTQA+ stands for "ally". this show is for queer people. letting in bioqueens and/or straight people infiltrates the safe space that the show has created for our queer community.

                [–]NorthernMunkey8 47 ポイント48 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Not every gay girl that wants to do drag wants to be a drag king. Plenty of bio-queens are gay too.

                I don't think bio-queens should be on the show, but ffs I'm fed up of people on this sub acting like gay women don't exist.

                [–]hutch991Trinity Taylor 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                I am a strong gay womaaaan

                [–]AnthoZeroTrinity Taylor 42 ポイント43 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                Why do people WANT to be queer? Like I'm getting the feeling a lot of people think it's trendy and they just act queer for the Tumblr privilege

                [–]deanevangeliouShea Couleé 47 ポイント48 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                In my mind, I sometimes see it as a form of queer appropriation. I'm very proud to identify as a gay man, but I have overcome a lot to accept my identity and get trough shit that straight people will never have to or understand. so when straight people want to take part in a queer show that IS HONESTLY LIKE THE ONLY FUCKING THING WE HAVE, it pisses me off because the rest of the world is made for them. Let us have this. Theyre jealous because they want to be a part of a culture that basically creates every pop culture reference around them, but don't want to participate in the struggle that comes with identifying as queer.

                [–]PeppermussyI'm a magical bitch, darling. 👑✨ 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Preach

                [–]nivoragrandma's vag 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                oh it's very that, queer and breaking the gender binary is all the rage despite being a very serious though thing

                [–]alexthenotadragqueenSasha Velour 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                you can choose to respond if you want, but genuine question. I'm early 20s and was told that the A has historically stood for ally to cover for closeted people (like you tell your parents "I'm going to the Gays and Allies event! But don't worry I'm going as an ally!" when you're really going because you're gay) but i also see it standing for ace and i'm just confused as shit

                [–]agayghostShea Couleé 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Historically the A stood for allies for the reason you listed. There's this ahistorical idea that it "always stood for asexual" but asexual as an identity is very new (not to say that people who were what we would consider ace these days haven't existed forever, just that as an identity with a word and a community it's a very recent development)

                [–]alexthenotadragqueenSasha Velour 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Thank you! I appreciate your answer

                [–]deanevangeliouShea Couleé 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                That's super interesting I had no idea! I see where that comes from if that's the case, historically. But nowadays it's definitely been interpreted as like a straight person who knows gay people lol, as in the "ally" part.

                コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                  コメントをもっと表示する (6 返事)

                    [–]Unnie55Valentina 37 ポイント38 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    I don't buy into the tumblr cries for "inclusivity". Some things are just not for you, and that's fine. It's downright narcissistic to feel like you need to be included in every space. As a bio woman, I do not think bio queens belong on this show and I don't see how this is a blasphemous thing. I see females represented damn near everywhere, I am not itching to see us represented on a show about drag queens.

                    I am annoyed that Trinity even felt the need to clarify her statements.

                    [–]Ryo_RThat Phi Phi Stan You Knew I Was + Dela 32 ポイント33 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                    PC culture is ruining Darg Race, color me shook.

                    [–]JamesTheGentFarrah Moan 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                    er mer darg

                    [–]Ryo_RThat Phi Phi Stan You Knew I Was + Dela 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    they take muh daaarg

                    [–]AzoolahSasha Velour 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    My only problem with this is the assumption that bioqueens are all straight/cis.... like how are you going to say they don't fuck with gendernorms and society's expectations?

                    [–]GeosaysbyeAja 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                    I really like the idea of hyper/bio queens and drag kings on Dragula

                    [–]longcrimsonlocksDon't joke about that 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    Yeah I totally feel like the format for Dragula can be way more fluid and accepting of those kinds of drag

                    [–]cucuqweenShea Couleé 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                    As long as they can pull out the drag,filth, horror and glamour of Dragula.

                    [–]Henny_Or_Herpes 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    ONG I NEVER REALISED THAT SPELLS OUT DFHG /s

                    [–]sluttynipplePeppermint 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                    I think people are pushing this agenda more because of multiple reasons. The switch to VH1 has forced to show to appeal to straights, this season had the least gay references/challenges compared to past seasons. Another reason would be that queens getting plastic surgery is very common, it's not much of a transformation if you get your face/body feminized.

                    [–]sephra_raeI am the Nancy Drew of Drag 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    Maybe not bio queens on drag race but open the door for some drag kings? Gender non conforming queens/kings people I would love to see that, but I wouldn't mind a spin off with bio queens.

                    [–]fullmoonhermit 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                    As a career drag queen and gay man, she shouldn't have to clarify this for fuck's sake.

                    [–]burntfishnchipsAja 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    No, she shouldn't, but sadly Dragrace has become more mainstream, drawing in tons of young, straight people who want to push their agenda in the gay safe spaces.

                    [–]maskedbanditoftruth 27 ポイント28 ポイント  (18子コメント)

                    Okay, I am bracing for the downvotes here but my name is not Jasmine Masters and I have something to say.

                    Two somethings actually.

                    So that whole bit at the end about how a cis woman competing on drag race could never say she was defying societal norms of gender the way a gay man does...it rubs me the wrong way.

                    Because while you can say the transformation wouldn't be as intense, the fact is I can't imagine a woman in the real world acting the way the queens do on the show and not getting ostracized or torn to shreds. No cis women I know could get away with shouting about feeling like pussy feeling like cunt and praising themselves up and down or even talking with the frequency, slang, and volume the girls on the show do. The reaction a cis woman gets for that behavior is usually disgust and horror. Even mild expressions of desire are met with disapproval. And women who dress and do their makeup like drag queens get called shallow, stupid, vain, the works.

                    Privilege is intersectional, and men's voices, even in the queer community, still ring out louder and prouder than women's.

                    There would be a defiance of gender norms because women are profoundly discouraged from behaving with the confidence, sexual charge, and bravado of men. That is not something that is included in traditional femininity. One of the things I love about the show is it's the only place on TV where I can see girls acting like I and my friends do with each other and cannot do in the outside world without a lot of risk.

                    And what if the bioqueen is a lesbian or bisexual? Drag flies in the face of stereotypes about drab, masculine lesbians who only love Home Depot. Is that not interesting at all?

                    Which brings me to the second something. Because I feel like the inclusion of Peppermint but steadfast exclusion of fauxqueens puts a huge lie to the notion that RPDR accepts transwomen as women. If they believed that transwomen are and have always been women, then any woman should be allowed on the show. By saying Peppermint is but others aren't, they're saying she's different, and the ugly implication has always felt to me like: she's still kind of sort of a man so it's okay for her to be on the show

                    Which I don't believe at all and I don't think most in our community do. But to yell GENDER IS OVER and then snicker YEAH EXCEPT FOR NO GIRLS IN THE CLUB BECAUSE EW and then rush to add in BUT TRANSWOMEN ARE FINE seems to imply they're fine because someone up top doesn't see them as girls in some essential way. Peppermint is a woman. She is into men. She is a straight woman, unless she's bi and I just haven't heard about it. If that's true, and she could do so well, why wouldn't other women be allowed to even audition? Well, because I don't think everyone involved with the show does think it's true.

                    And that makes me so uncomfortable and I never see anyone talking about it. Everyone is happy for the inclusion but the implication...is not superb.

                    I'm not even saying I think faux queens should be on the show. I'm just saying...if gender is over why couldn't a genderfluid lesbian be on just because she happens to have a vagina?

                    [–]sleepingqueenTrinity Taylor 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (7子コメント)

                    I agree with what you are saying about how women are socialized to act in public and how bio women could absolutely shake up gender norms. As a queer woman, this is something that I think about a lot bc of Drag Race. How is that gay men have more space to be free as women than cis women do? That feels fucking weird. However, I don't think cis women should be on Drag Race because it feels like it would be two different shows. I'd be interested in watching something with bio queens or drag kings though! Would love to hear their side stories and get that reflection we get from the gay male perspective.

                    [–]JoshuaEadsBrown 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (6子コメント)

                    I am in no way opposed to having bio queens on the show because I've always been super into bio drag ... but my vote would be to have a full spinoff series that celebrates the nuances of bio drag, hosted by Michelle. I think it could explore the things that are unique to bio queen culture such as origins, drive, scene and struggles in an environment where they would be judged fairly. Just my two cents.

                    [–]pm_me_ur_throbbing_D 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    I'd watch the hell out of that show, I'd love to be informed more on the history of bioqueens and get more of Michelle's reads in my life.

                    [–]sleepingqueenTrinity Taylor 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                    That would be incredible! Kindra Meyer and Cherdonna Shinatra would need to be on that show!

                    [–]injaeia#DragKingsForSashaVelour 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                    I think Cherdonna is a great example of a ladyqueen parodying gender in an extremely pointed and exaggerated way. She plays up exactly what women are often stereotyped as: loud, shrill, annoying, pushy, and extra. She does it in a VERY funny way, but it is still an extreme caricature of what a "bad" woman is (as opposed to "demure, coy, petite, reserved, etc", which is what a "good" woman is). Anybody that wonders what statements on gender a ladyqueen could possibly make has clearly not seen a queen like Cherdonna.

                    I have no particularly strong opinions as to whether ladyqueens or drag kings should be on drag race (except to say that if they did allow these forms of drag, especially kings, the producers should take care to do it right because the unwitting artists that get tangled up in a poorly executed mess wouldn't deserve it), but I support the hell out of anything that makes a point to represent lesser-known styles of drag - if one style of drag (traditional queening) gets that representation, the others should get something as well, lest we inadvertently discredit and/or invalidate the other styles.

                    We already see a lot of, "well that's not real drag" sentiment out there, solely because it doesn't match what's shown on drag race, and like, seriously fuck the people that think that - but at the same time it's comforting to see yourself represented and validated alongside your peers. I'd like to see more awareness and/or representation of a lot of the different kinds of drag that are out there.

                    [–]sleepingqueenTrinity Taylor 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    I like you - thank you for writing this. I totally agree!

                    コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

                      [–]longcrimsonlocksDon't joke about that 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      Thank you so much for putting that first part into words. This idea that bioqueens could do their drag 24/7 and be totally accepted for it sounds like it comes from some weird alternate reality that we don't actually live in. Like are we just going to ignore the fact that cis women are constantly under pressure to wear makeup while simultaneously shamed for doing it?

                      I'm a cis woman who doesn't do drag but in the last year or so has gotten really passionate about makeup (partly because of drag). I love being adventurous and colorful with it but there is not a single time where I go out wearing makeup without feeling this intense anxiety that people are judging me for it. The fact is women are forced to act more reserved and I imagine that's a lot of the reason bioqueens are even a thing.

                      If bioqueens are never allowed on drag race I'm fine with that but this idea that bioqueens on the show would be invasive and take too much of the spotlight away from gay men is gross and I'm not here for it.

                      [–]DaphneTuringSasha Velour 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      I agree with most of what you said with the exception of the bit about Transness.

                      The difference between Trans Women and Cis Women is that Cis were assigned female at birth and were able to live their truth as women and did not have to find their feminine identity in the same way that Trans women struggle to do and are persecuted for.

                      There is a history of Trans women finding this female identity through drag, and simultaneously shape the world of drag as they do it. Cis-women have much less of a history of this.

                      [–]PinkGoldJigglypuffSasha Velour -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                      Trans women were pivotal in the invention/emergence of drag while cis women had nothing to do with it.

                      コメントをもっと表示する (5 返事)

                        [–]NuWaveSpecial 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        True drag should be left to the cis male professionals like Serena ChaCha and Penny Tration.

                        [–]burntfishnchipsAja 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        It pisses me off that people are being rude to Trinity on her twitter about this issue. Drag race was never meant for bio queens. That could be a whole 'nother show entirely, but drag race is for men and transwoman. It's a very good outlet to express themselves and show others they aren't alone. That kind of discrimination doesn't really happen for a cis woman putting on a dress and makeup the same way it does for a gay man or transwoman. Come on now.

                        [–]fxvcsSasha Velour 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Shut up and drive. I mean like gurl, no need to throw a fit on everything. Done with this new fanbase. 🙄

                        [–]kristiangurl💖Fire💖 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Makes sense.

                        [–]ekay213 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Straight, white, bio-female here. Why the fuck would anyone want straight bio-females on drag race. That's what makes drag race, drag race. The transformation. The fact that it's FOR the LGBT community. Ugh, we ruin everything, I'm so sorry.

                        [–]milleribsenNina Flowers 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                        It would be really nice if for once straight people didn't want to insert themselves into LGBTQ+ spaces.

                        [–]the_greatnatsbySasha Velour 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                        This just in, gay women suddenly don't exist.

                        [–]123barTrinity Taylor 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        This just in: Rupauls drag race is a show about gay men and trans women (to an extent so far) doing drag!

                        コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                          [–]GuySimileSasha Velour 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (6子コメント)

                          I really don't like anything about exclusivity; especially the idea of trying to exclude people based on their gender.

                          I just can't really see why gender should be a criterion for anything in professional life (or entertainment).

                          [–]SpinaBifidaOcculta 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                          because of history and society. Drag Race casts gay drag queens not all performers who do drag

                          [–]GuySimileSasha Velour 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                          Do people find drag sexual or something

                          [–]JustD42 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                          It's because for the most part drag queens tend to be (key word TEND for any SJWs ready to jump at me) gay men who dress as women. Since the show began it's had a lot of gay tongue-in-cheek humor and a lot of serious moments such as coming out and of course talk about queer culture . Well it sort of loses that when you start casting straight people because they don't go through the same struggles as LGBT people. It just wouldn't be the same show.

                          [–]GuySimileSasha Velour 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          Maybe you're right.

                          [–]Henny_Or_Herpes 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                          Bebe is straight, isnt she? (Technically so are the trans queens but thats a whole nother can o beans)

                          [–]JustD42 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          Hmm Idk I never watched season 1 (can barely find it anywhere) so I wasn't aware of Bebe's sexuality and yes the transwomen would technically be straight but they still fall under the LGBT acronym. But like other people said, drag kings and faux queens Would be nice to see. But on another show.

                          [–]jgroove_LAValentina 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          Not wrong.

                          [–]jgroove_LAValentina 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          Not wrong.

                          [–]nemaaren 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          Alright I'm not usually one to comment on a social issue but I feel as though people on social media especially twitter/Facebook like to pretend that harassing people about subjects they know little about will give them the self confidence they are lacking in their real life.

                          In this case I agree with Trinity. Drag race is not for bio-queens because it is one of the only outlets that showcases completely queer talent. This is a show for young queer people to discover role models in an art from that has been apart of the LGBT for a very long time. And for people in our community to bond and share this experience like cisgendered straight people get to do with almost every reality show ever.

                          Not only that, but I understand Trinity's argument about the showcase of starting from a plain, androgens look like Peppermint did in her confessionals to the dragged out fabulous queen that she is. This doesn't change her gender identity or how people in the show treated her, it was just a way of making the transformation more dramatic.

                          Now the most ridiculous argument is about bio-queens being allowed in because trans queens are. Drag has been spearheaded by not only gay men but trans people for, forever. Yes they are women, but many of them discovered who they truly were through this art form, they fought for it, protested for it and worked their asses off so people at home gay or straight could watch them be the fierce bitches that they are. To leave that I unacknowledged is to disrespect the trans community who have made it possible to have this show exist in the first place. That is the difference between them and bio-queens. That is why they are not the same in this regard.

                          Sorry for the novel it's real late and I was feeling my oats as a started to comment.

                          [–]LadySpectreXYour Ex 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                          I'll gladly take my down votes on a topic like this.. Because as an openly trans woman since my mid-teens, now in my late 20's, I am so unbelievably SICK of people wanting there to be gender exclusives based on whatever definition of "gender" they want to follow.

                          If you're a fierce performer who does drag that aligns with the style and theme of the show, then you should be eligible to be on it. Period. It shouldn't matter what genitalia you have or had. The fact that RuPaul himself has said the only qualification for entry is "being fierce" should shut this narrow minded view down, but it doesn't. Which only goes to show me how pervasive closed-minded change-resistant attitudes are even in the LGBT community.

                          Perhaps the only halfway decent argument here is that this is a queer platform. So what do we do about "bio" queens who are members of the LGBT community? Exclude them too because of their birth genitals? Seems like most people here would be okay with this. "But bio queens can just pretend to be queer to get cast" sounds an awful lot like "But men can just pretend to be trans to use the women's bathroom".

                          Given that not even six months ago anyone who said they thought openly trans women should be allowed on this show were downvoted to filth, leads me to believe that this is less of a problem of people caring about the queer space this show is and more of a bunch of messy gays that are only looking for contestants they can get boners to out of drag.

                          But whatever, that's my opinion. Regardless of how unpopular it is. Bring on the down votes and nasty comments hennies. I just hope you'll all be eating it if we get a fierce bioqueen next season.

                          [–]SpinaBifidaOcculta 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          It's about featuring a specific segment of society. I don't think drag race is about all performers who do drag, but about the community immediately around gay drag queens which also includes trans drag queens. Drag is a performance art but drag race is about a segment of the general population and their trials and tribulations, not "America's Got Drag Talent". I for one hope that next season goes overboard on the gayness to show the fans what's what (but it won't)

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                            [–]traggot 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            this is the girl who coined "astigmatism". ima give her a hard pass for not putting her beliefs into the right words, it's really nbd.

                            [–]dsaitkenJaymes Mansfield 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            NO BIO QUEENS

                            EVER.

                            [–]Lu-den🎶 Sasha Velour relies on b̶r̶a̶i̶n̶s Shea 🎶 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            Trinity was right and everyone who disagrees with her is an imbecile bye 👋👋👋👋

                            [–]aeroballisticValentina -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (6子コメント)

                            i feel like saying bio queens aren't allowed on drag race devalidates the identity of trans women, like "it's okay bc they were a man before" ... peppermint is just as much a woman in my eyes as say someone like creme fatale, so where is the line drawn of how the performer identifies? drag at least to me is about subverting pop culture and making of light of media or politics and many naturally born women out there (ex: rosiefaux, cremefatale, laceymcfadyen) contribute just as much to the growing culture of drag as other performers do and equally deserve a showcase of their art, since they ➡️➡️➡️do drag. when rpdr becomes "rupaul's man in a dress race" then sure don't let bio queens on, but the definition of drag isn't rigid and has been growing exponentially.

                            [–]PipotchiPeppermint 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            im sure most of us fully accept peppermint as a woman. the whole point is that society does not accept the validity of trans people. i think drag race is a show about celebrating those people that are brave enough to bend those gender norms put in place by society, and exploring femininity. none of these people are accepted as real women by society.

                            [–]pittywhiteShea Couleé 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            In a perfect world sure, trans and cis women should be treated equally, but we both know that's not the case. I'm well aware bio queens can be amazing, and I do believe they are challenging gender norms in a way, but to say they contribute to drag just as much as trans and gay queens is honestly the BIGGEST reach I've seen in this sub. Trans built drag, cis got into it after it wasn't a crime and became relatively "cool".

                            [–]traggot 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            i get what ur saying here but drag historically belongs to trans women in a way that cis women don't own. trans women are women obvi but we're women with a specific history and somewhat of a culture.

                            [–]NPBFAG_saved_my_life 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            As a drag fan, I literally never gag at any bio queen. They may look polished or interesting, but they will never grasp the ballsyness it takes to dress up as the opposite BIOLOGIC sex you were born with. It is about identity, but a bio queen's identity is not the same as a transwoman's identity. They just don't have the same life experiences and history.

                            And you're right, Peppermint is as much of a woman as those bio queens, but Peppermint had to challenge so much more to get there. That's what I'm interested in as a drag fan. Otherwise I would just go to a Katy Perry show.

                            [–]CelestialBlueSasha Velour 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            Also the same courtesy would clearly not be given to trans non-binary females nor are drag kings ever going to get any kind of feature on the show, even in a challenge, and their art form is sorely under rated. People can make this out to be about straight/cis women invading a space as much as they want but the show also insists that trans women who come on stop or don't begin transitioning. There's obviously a prejudice of where drag should come from and what it should look like. It doesn't need to be fixed tomorrow, but everyone can just stop pretending like the motives behind limiting contestants is completely pure.

                            [–]pale_sketches 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            Trans is a journey. Just because you can identity with a gender now, doesn't mean it didn't take a lot of hard work to get to that point. Saying you see Peppermint as much as a woman as any other woman is an insult to everything she did to get there. Being a trans woman is so much more than being born a woman.

                            [–]fassypanosSasha Velour 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            This is so on point, come thru Trinity's ghost writer! (I said JK ((but did I mean it?)) )

                            [–]BillyKonstantineThis is just too fucking MUCH 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            My friend says if you ain’t tucking your dick, it ain’t Drag

                            [–]ladymaladyShea Couleé 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            Feel free to drag me, but the thing with bio queens (and I say this as a straight/white/cis/definitely-the-oppressor woman) is they already have that space. Bio women can dress however they want, wear whatever makeup they want, no matter what space they're in, and the worst thing that happens is they're over dressed.* They shouldn't be on drag race, not because they're not artists, but because they're not accessing the same subversive parts of culture that gay men and trans women are.

                            I get loving drag race to the point where you want to be a part of it, but there are so many other ways to participate in the community of drag fans that aren't appropriation.

                            *There are tons of way worse things that can happen to women with their style of dress used as justification, but you feel me, right?

                            [–]CelestialBlueSasha Velour -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (9子コメント)

                            How is a trans woman transcending gender norms if she's a woman?

                            Edit: I knew I was going to have to fucking edit this after how oblivious the rest of this thread seemed. You seem to be reading it as transcending in general. "transcending gender norms" makes it sound like trans women are doing something novel and surrealist just by being woman. It's patronizing. Drag is a performance being trans is an identity.

                            [–]NPBFAG_saved_my_life 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (6子コメント)

                            A trans woman had to fight to get there. They earned it.

                            [–]CelestialBlueSasha Velour 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                            I don't know what you mean by that. "Transcending gender norms" in the context of the op made it sound like trans women are doing something novel and surrealist just by being woman in the same way cis men are when the characterize being a woman as a performance. It's patronizing. Drag is a performance being trans is an identity.

                            [–]NPBFAG_saved_my_life 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                            You're the one assuming trans people just identifies as women and live happy ever after. Trans people transcend gender norms by not following the typical rules of gender, which is perfectly fine. But they have a different baggage compared to regular ass bio women.

                            [–]CelestialBlueSasha Velour 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                            You're the one assuming trans people just identifies as women and live happy ever after.

                            ???????????? Tell me when I said this. How did you get that from anything I said. I would love to hear this reach. I also love that I'm someone who isn't cis being being lectured on how to interpret "transcending gender norms".

                            [–]luisgermanotta_Trinity Taylor 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            Ask Sasha

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                              [–]notits_mcgeeTeutonic Bisexual -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (7子コメント)

                              I call bullshit actually, at least on the last bit. I don't give a shit if they never let bio-women on the show, but I still think this comment is bullshit. Honestly, if the same people that say women shouldn't be allowed on the show, everyone else is, including straight men (because women can't defy gender roles etc.) then they should also be ok with gay men and trans women be excluded from shows because "well gay men/trans women can't really do X" then sure, but I doubt that's the case. I'm quite sure that these same people would get their panties in the twist of the century.

                              My point is, if it's ok to exclude a group of people built on some subjective argument then it's ok to do it to everyone else too. It's either all ok, or none of it's ok.

                              [–]PipotchiPeppermint 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (6子コメント)

                              do you really think that doesnt happen already to gay and trans people

                              [–]sylviaplinth 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                              excuse me sweaty but there have been like two movies made since cameras were invented about trans people played by cis people?? we basically owe drag race to cishet people for their magnanimity

                              [–]notits_mcgeeTeutonic Bisexual 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                              I didn't say it didn't, and that's bullshit. It shouldn't be that way, and it shouldn't be that way to anyone. Trans and gay people being excluded from whatever, insert anything here is wrong. IMO going "No men", or "No trans people", or "No arabs" etc. is fucked up.

                              [–]Pixel-SharkFarrah Moan 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                              what about drag kings? as they're still bending gender norms do you guys think they should be allowed on drag race? personally, i think it would be really cool to see a drag king on rpdr.

                              [–]BluewhalebonerShea Couleé 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              There are some amazing kings out there but they would fit into the show even worse than bioqueens would girl

                              There are so many common challenges and runway categories that you can't really build in a masculine equivalent to, which would be necessary if you're tryin to have queens and kings competing for the same win

                              [–]PipotchiPeppermint 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              i dont think drag kings should be on drag race because it doesnt fit the format and its not really about their stories. showing femininity as a man or trans woman is potentially lethal and showing masculinity as a cis woman is just not a similar thing. ill support any lgbt performance but i dont see why it needs to be on drag race

                              [–]injaeia#DragKingsForSashaVelour 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              I'm a professional king, and I don't think kings should be on the race. Not as it is now, and not without a lot of care taken in the implementation. To throw a king or kings into the current format would be unfair to the king(s), and would do a disservice to our art - when most people don't know you exist, or have a very limited scope of what you do, first impressions are everything. Kings, as it stands right now, have very little to gain and a whole lot to lose.

                              Let's say the sewing challenge is "red carpet eleganza". The king will, point blank, either look a mess compared to the queens or fail the challenge entirely. Formal menswear takes a LONG time to construct, is a lot less flexible in terms of style and design, and overall is just not terribly suited (pun halfway intended) to a fast-paced sewing challenge. The best the king could hope for is to get funky with it and try and sell the judges on a "red carpet ready" tunic look or a fantasy piece or something - but given the unpredictable response the judges and the audience have had to unusual style choices, this is risky at best.

                              If the producers are willing to restructure the show in a way that makes it a bit more equitable, and are able to pull it off well, then yes, great, have kings on! But as-is? No.

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