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There is psychological evidence to suggest that Trans and non binary are a mental illness. (self.conspiracy)

Nihlismtrialism が 投稿

Allow me to elaborate, i have studied psychology more specifically Behaviour, When psychologists decide if someone may have a mental illness, they will look at their behaviour and lifestyle of 'being able to function adequately' etc. Many of these suggestions as to what ideal mental health is, suggest that those that are trans may have an mental illness, for instance one factor they take into account is the reality that which one lives in, some could say that 'oh but they really feel like the opposite gender' but someone with schizophrenia will feel like a clock is talking to them, by denying your biological body you are in turn not grounded in reality, secondly 'ability to function adequately' requires those to be able to deal with the everyday demands of everyday life and be able to deal with stress. Many trans go through intense stress due the belief that they are another gender. They will also struggle with doing 'traditional gender activities'. Im explaining this horribly but if you want you can look up the widely used books that psychologists use all over the world to diagnose someone with a mental illness or not DSM-5. by no means am i trying to offend its just a scientific conclusion i have come to, the mental illness section within this book suggests that many of transgender individuals do not have the ideal mental health.

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[–]TARDISinScarlet 27 ポイント28 ポイント  (1子コメント)

as a transgender person, i thought it was common knowledge that being transgender was the result of a mental illness? its called gender dysphoria, and its been known about and documented for years.

[–]NotAnotherDownvote 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This knowledge is being rapidly unwritten to appease political correctness. At least the situation for those with this mental illness seems to be improving. Thanks for your candor.

[–]Hamsterarcher 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (8子コメント)

i work in a mental health ward so Ive seen the worst more visible kinds and the totally invisible kinds. If a patient said to the doctor, I feel like im not right inside, im a snail in a human body so i feel like i should cut my legs and arms off. they say the patient has some sort personality disorder where they've disassociated themselves from "Usual thinking patterns and behaviour". I dont understand how the trans movement isnt thought of the same, These people in most cases believe their in the wrong body or that they're way of thinking/being doesnt fit the "norms" of that gender. isnt this just the same thing?? especially when it comes to removal of the genitals to feel "normal". thats not a healthy trail of thought atall. a member of my family is transgender, i fully support her, but after seeing similar things being said at work i quietly think theres more going on in the brain region that were not being told about.

Dont forget about the high suicide rates after sex change opperations too.

[–]mconeone 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Well it's way more understandable since the same zygote turns into both males and females. They don't turn into snails (except Gail.)

Any source for the last sentence? Never heard that before.

[–]Hamsterarcher 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

understandable compared to the snail example but what i was getting at was the disassociation that their body isn't correct. Only a few years back we were telling people to feel good in their bodies, The huge push in anti-fat shaming and glamorizing it on media. Now their saying the opposite.

also https://www.theguardian.com/society/2004/jul/30/health.mentalhealth

seen one in WPost too, Google suicide rates after sex change operation, full of em

[–]GerkDentley 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

except Gail

What kind of a person salts another human being? There's no joy in salting someone. Everyone loses.

[–]PonyExpressYourself 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Also don't forget how glyphosate has cause massive hermaphroditism in frogs. We are all poisoned by roundup.

[–]WeAreTheSheeple 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (41子コメント)

What about homosexuality? And those with fetishes? Would you consider those a mental illness?

[–]Putin_loves_cats 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Perversions and mental disorders, yes.

[–]pby1000 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Dolphins have sex with dead fish. They are lucky because other dolphins do not judge them.

[–]Mickybagabeers 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Exactly why I left out the fact I identify as a dolphin on my coroner's office application.

[–]Nihlismtrialism[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (34子コメント)

with homosexuality, i look at it very objectively, a reminder the the DSM-5 is based on western culture for what we deem as a society as 'ideal mental health', some psychologists actually believe that mental illness isnt a thing but they are just different. However getting back to the question, there is one truth in the universe and that is procreation, it happens with all animals, all cells so if someone cannot procreate because of loss of genitalia or something like erectile dysfunction etc it is seen as a 'biological disorder' because biologically something is wrong with their body, so if someone is biologically sound but they cannot procreate naturally it is because of a cognitive disorder as mentally they wont want to have sex with the gender needed to procreate, therefore i also homosexuality as a mental disorder, however that doesnt mean they have to be cured or less then human because they are not. I dont think someone can objectively say that 1.6% percentage of the population is 'normal' or that it isnt a disorder- i wish there was a better word to use than 'normal'.

[–]cally1789 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (30子コメント)

You have no idea what you are talking about. They've done brain scans and autopsies of trans brains and they are almost identical to the gender they are not the sex on the outside. Most likely it's caused by hormones in the womb. In some it is genetic because they have extra chromosomes​. Like xxy. You don't think there is a difference between sex and gender because you have the same type of sex and gender identity. I however did not grow up with that luxury. It is nothing like feeling like your a snail or other stupid arguments people like you try to make up. That doesn't even make sense. You do know there are male and female brains and there are hermaphrodites in nature so it's only natural that they're would be intersexed conditions where it's the brain that's opposite from it's body sex. And the suicide rates are high before treatment. I'm not sure about older transitioners but there isn't a high suicide rate among young transitioners. They also took trans people out of the mental illness books do quit trying to put us back in it with your ignorant statements. I don't understand why you would even have this in the conspiracy section nobody made me trans i felt this way my whole like. I also am not dillusional i know perfectly how my body looked no hallucinations or anything like your picturing. I just know my brain and body didn't sync up right. It's like i was using the wrong kind of gas and oil and when i got on hormones everything just clicked and worked better cuz i got the premium gas and oil now. So no it's not a mental illness stop wasting your time worrying about trans people we don't harm you by getting treatment.

[–]sillybillyohwell 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (8子コメント)

i love this, someone calls someone childish names brings little factual evidence without a source, gets upvoted, someone puts up factual evidence as to how you professionally diagnose someone using a book called DSM-5 and gets downvoted, reddit never change.

[–]cally1789 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

What evidence they took trans people out of the book your talking about it's a recognized medical condition not a mental illness. You keep saying you have real evidence you do not.

[–]cally1789 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Your using faulty logic to harm a group that people are finally recognizing as real people and not some weird fetish. or freaks of course your going to get downvoted. Then you just keep spewing the same shit and whine your right.

[–]Nihlismtrialism[S] 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

real people

so you're saying anyone with a mental illness isnt a real person?

[–]cally1789 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

When the hell did I say that I was saying how's people viewed trans people as freaks and not like valid people what is with your claiming I'm against mentally Ill people I never once said anythinging against them

[–]cally1789 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It seems like you have a strange desire to call trans people mentally ill and why are you comparing me to a schitso none of us hallucinate or anything like that. If they do it's not cuz they are trans.

[–]Nihlismtrialism[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

faulty logic? lets compare, my belief stems from the attributes as to what classify's as a mental illness from the dsm-5, thats my whole point so of course im going to be mentioning it alot because it is my source of info. Your logic is 'i dont feel insane' therefore am not. Ask someone with schizophrenia who hasnt yet been diagnosed if they feel insane, they are going to say the same thing you did. It's my normal i dont feel insane. No one is saying they aren't real people. Yet you say i provide no evidence, i have a book to quote, you are giving out experiments with no source, how does anyone know if you are making them up to support your claim?

[–]cally1789 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I read from the same book and addressed it being trans is not in there. In the old version any trans person was Diagnosed with gid gender identity disorder. In the new version it's now called gender dysphoria and in it's own separate category and not all trans people have gender dysphoria. Go on Google you can find plenty of studies just look at the pictures of the brain scans.

[–]cally1789 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

And again when did I say mentally ill people aren't real I think you may be mentally ill and that's why your so sensitive to my statements and obviously not understanding me. I have no ill will toward mentally ill people I just was trying to explain not all trans people have mental illness. My comment about real people was that most people think of drag queens and transvestites or a weird porn fetish like thing. By real I mean people are seeing regular people like me that transition and live normal lives and see that were not what they saw in the media in the past. It was never once said against mentally ill people so if you bring it up again then you'd just be trolling me at that point if you aren't already. And again can you explain why this is a conspiracy? I really would like to know where your going with any of this.

[–]Nihlismtrialism[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (20子コメント)

Deviation from Social Norms

Only 1.6% are gay within the UK.

Failure to Function Adequately

irrational behaviour, Maladaptiveness, Personal Suffering & Distress

• Ideal Mental Health

Positive Attitude: in touch with own feelings and identity,Have an accurate perception of reality. Resistant to stress.

it can be argued that a trans individual shows traits of abnormal behaviour and mental illness from the above. Thats not even all of the types of analysing mental health, but the ones i can remember the easiest. . GID was reclassified to gender dysphoria by the DSM-5,Gender dysphoria is classified as a disorder under dual role transvestism in the 2017 ICD-10 CM. Wiki thats how easy that info was to get. So im sure i can apply these to gender dysphoria- which is a mental illness, so yes it is in the books.

[–]cally1789 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (9子コメント)

You are applying it using your own twisted logic it's not in the books. And transgender people are not transvestites. Your obviously just trying to justify your bigotry​ against trans people asshole

[–]cally1789 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (6子コメント)

I also function just fine. I am not mentally ill and you can go fuck yourself.

[–]cally1789 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

By the way your saying this in a conspiracy subreddit, so you have trouble following social norms also apparently. Otherwise you wouldn't be here where we question the official narrative of society.

[–]Nihlismtrialism[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

holy fuck someone is a little offended, ability to function is only just one form of analysing mental health, one individual does not speak for a whole group of people. Many trans cannot function adequately according to the DSM-5. Irrational behaviour such as cutting off genitals, maladaptive and suffer personal distress and self hatred. This if you like it or not would class many trans individuals as mentally ill. Thats not to say im a bigot be trans whatever you do you, but i think we have to recognise it for what it is. That is just a snippet of how to diagnose someone, there are about 4 others ways with factors that many trans individuals would be classified as a disorder. Science hasn't got an agenda.

[–]cally1789 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

You just seem to really wanna push the mentally ill point with no evidence for what you're saying and I did give you facts you are just cherry picking definitions to suit your needs.

[–]cally1789 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Also I don't know what the hell this has to do with a conspiracy.

[–]cally1789 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Also I just looked at the dsrm Again trans people do not automatically have gender dysphoria. The gender dysphoria diagnosis is only used if it causes the individual great distress. You can be trans and be phycologically healthy or screwed up and trans just like anyone. It happens more often with trans people then it should because we haven't been accepted and are forced to play a role we don't feel is compatible with our true selves. Also using abnormal behavior if your gender as a diagnosis of mental illness is wrong. If that's the case then tom boys who like to do guy stuff and Boys that like more feminine activities must be mentally ill as well in your mind. Who defines what are normal behavior anyway certainly not you. I also don't know why your putting homosexuality as a mental illness it was taken out long ago.

[–]Nihlismtrialism[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

you really don't know any science behind what you are saying because of have obviously just generalised mental ill people as 'insane' which is just ignorant, others who have disagreed with me, have made actual factual arguments please do the same, before you go label someone that has a different opinion than you.

[–]Nihlismtrialism[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Look at DSM-5 it mentions gender dysphoria as a disorder/illness. Like do a google search before you write something, the book all psychologists refer to when diagnosing a patient states that it is a disorder.

[–]cally1789 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

And I never said mentally ill means crazy your the one who said it not me.

[–]cally1789 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (9子コメント)

Also trans people are not automatically gay. Some are some aren't same as cisgender people. So I don't know why your telling us gay percentages, gender and sexuality are totally seperate things.

[–]Nihlismtrialism[S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

i couldnt find the statistic for trans in the uk although im guessing its much lower then the percentage of gays, just used as a measuring stick.

[–]cally1789 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well you cant just lump gay and trans people together we are not the same people. So why use there stats it's not a sustitute. Everything about your statements is wrong. That'd be like using Latino data in exchange for asian people data cuz they are both minorites.

[–]rocktogether -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Isn't the singer from Against me still with her wife. I guess that means she was not gay.

Some people just want everything to be black and white. They don't want to understand that not everything is binary.

[–]cally1789 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (5子コメント)

I don't know against me I'm not sure what kind of group that is I'm American by the way you mentioned uk so I guess they are from there. I guess what you are saying is she was mtf and the wife stayed. Well no that means she is gay she always was a lesbian just perceived as male before. Sexual orientation is definitely confusing for trans people and tho we might say it changed after transitioning it's more like it's revealed because most of us repress our true selves. That did a study recently on women where it was discovered all women are at least a little bi or fully gay. They all got turned on by women but the lesbians did not get turned on by men.There is no such thing as a 100 prevent hetero woman according to the study. So it stands to reason the wife either knew she was bi or discovered it and they stayed together. I'm not sure what your point is.

[–]rocktogether 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Also trans people are not automatically gay.

  1. I was agreeing with you. :)

  2. Against Me is a Punk band from the Gainesville area of Florida. Their singer very publicly transitioned from male to female. There was even a TV miniseries about her, and they had an album called "Transgender Dysphoria Blues." She and her wife are still together even after transitioning.

My point is that contrary to what many people are saying in this thread, male, female, gay, straight are not cut and dry things, and many people are somewhere in between, both and neither.

[–]cally1789 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Ya I actually thought u where the op didn't look at your screen name sorry

[–]Nihlismtrialism[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

all you did there was prove how hypocritical you are, you disagree with something a particular individual says then say sorry when you find it was not the particular individual, disagreeing because of a certain individual is just petty.

[–]WeAreTheSheeple 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Thanks for the response. Was what I was thinking. In a family with two gay sisters and I have fetishes (and don't want to procreate) so always been curious if I didn't have what I have, could there have been a chance I could've been gay? You don't need to attempt to answer my hypothetical question but I'm starting to have a theory that fetishes, homosexuality, trans etc could all be tied to mental health in the family genes.

[–]Guano- 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I wouldn't go to say family genes, but we tend to be a product of our environment.

A lot of chemicals, new and old materials, ect are around us everyday. So the speculation I'm trying to make is that we may not be aware of what harmful products could be shaping us in our environment.

ADHD medications gave boys boobs, others have cause physiologic problems, it's not far off to say certain chemicals could be changing us physically and/or mentally.

[–]TokyoVardy -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Majority of gays experienced separation separation anxiety as a kid, compared to normal population.

There is certainly a psychological element in homosexuality

[–]mconeone 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (11子コメント)

My dad is trans. She is not crazy and holds a 6-figure job. While I don't disregard the talk about people being coerced into changing their gender, I also take it with a grain of salt. Not everyone fits the mold.

[–]Nihlismtrialism[S] 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Mental illness doesnt mean crazy, you can have bipolar and still hold down a 6 figure job of course it wouldn't be as likely, but 'ability to function adequately' is only one form of analysing a mental illness, some mental illness can be horrible on everyday life such as depression, some not so much, someone with depression would however be said to be more grounded in reality then someone who is transgender, all the more power to you're dad though.

[–]swampbear 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Yeah, no. Dysphoria is not a delusion. Trans people are well aware of the bodies they're in. You need to study a lot more. How well do you think you'd function if your body felt wrong and everyone misgendered you all the time?

[–]Natums87 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

But gender is SOCIALLY constructed and NOT grounded in biology. We conflate the two, that's what makes this debate so difficult to have, everyone is using differently defined terms.

[–]PLLPLLPLL 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Gender roles are socially constructed. Gender identity is not.

[–]Natums87 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Can you explain how they make sense? One seems to follow the other...

[–]PLLPLLPLL 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Gender roles (or gender stereotypes) are socially constructed because society tends to dictate what the majority sees as masculine or feminine. Your gender identity is how you identify yourself based on your relation to the ideas of masculinity and femininity, which is internally derived. Society can influence how you outwardly choose express yourself, but it can't change what's at your core. That would just be the person conforming to gender roles to fit a stereotype because they don't feel comfortable identifying as who they really are.

[–]Ilikekittensyay 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Being mentally ill doesn't mean you can't hold a successful career.

[–]Jabiluka 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Something something politics.

[–]lagnaippe 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think you are right.

[–]TokyoVardy -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Kim?

[–]apkm4 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fact

[–]Cureem 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (6子コメント)

I agree that it is a mental illness, but not like the traditional mental illnesses we see such as depression and anxiety. Depression, for example, is a mental illness that you can get throughout your lifetime. Nobody is born depressed, and nobody chooses to be. But it can be cured because it is chemical and when different parts of the brain are altered, a human can go back to their natural state - without depression. But for transgenderism, it's not something that hits you out of nowhere, nor is it something you develop. It is something you are born with whether you realise it or not. It is also not something that you can cure. The only actual cure for transgenderism is for the transgender individual to undergo physical transition to create the biological impression of the gender and sex they identify with. This is the only way they can live with a happy mindset. I'm sure there's still much more about transgenderism and gender dysphoria that we don't know about.

[–]rocktogether 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Nobody is born depressed

I would disagree. I am one of those people who is lucky enough to be able to remember being very young. I know I have struggled with depression since at least 3 years old.

[–]Cureem 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

But can you fix it?

[–]rocktogether 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

You can lessen it, but not fix it.

[–]Cureem 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Do you agree that depression and gender dysphoria should fall under the same category?

[–]cally1789 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I don't agree with calling it a mental illness but I see the way you put it at least makes sense. I honestly think it should be recognized as a intersexed condition. Or just called a transgender brain. We think and act like our gender. I would say not being allowed to be ourselves is what causes any mental illness and like you said depression and anxiety can be fixed which are the most common suffered by trans people.

[–]Cureem 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The thing with transgenderism is that it is not some kind of illusion. It's not like a boy believes he's a boy but then has this thing where he thinks he's a girl. The way transgender individuals describe it is that they've never felt like their biological sex. It's not an illusion that can be fixed and they can go back to identifying with their biological sex, it's much more ingrained in them than that. Does that make sense? I think what would help us understand this more is talking to doctors who confirm whether you are really transgender or not before giving you hormone treatments and the like.

[–]StrizzMatik 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Correct. The high numbers of suicides (over 40% of transpeople have suicidal thoughts) don't lie.

[–]hoipalloi52 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ya think?

[–]eggs_of_liberty 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

There is nothing normal about wanting to have properly functioning body parts removed. It's a free country and you can live however you want, but if the presence of a healthy, necessary organ is causing you anxiety and distress, yes, that's clearly a problem.

[–]BrandonMarlowe 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (4子コメント)

, i have studied psychology

So you flunked out of a community college Psychology class, right?

Many of these suggestions as to what ideal mental health is, suggest that those that are trans may have an mental illness,

Hahah! SUGGESTIONS/! Quit huffing the glue, baby. you are making an ass of yourself.

by no means am i trying to offend

Oh I know you are. All of this comical "sophisticated scientist" posturing isn't helping. The DSM-V list Gender Dysphoria as a mental illness. i.e the discomfort of gender mismatch is the "illness" and SRS is the "cure". In no sense is this supposed to indicate delusional thinking. Post your sources or STFU.

[–]Nihlismtrialism[S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Im no scientist but what from what you wrote it sounds as though you are little offended and you are trying to get a rise out of me So you flunked out of a community college Psychology class, right? I mean if you are just going to attack me instead of my points. did you even read my post? My points are based on the DSM-5, read it maybe? i suggested that the traits that defer from ideal mental health from the DSM-5 are traits present in many trans individuals, its called an observation. Perhaps my title is misleading but i used the term 'evidence' because of a lack of a better word. Oh I know you are. All of this comical "sophisticated scientist"- im literally trying not to offend anyone, its called making a civil discussion without trying to be a dick like you. If you're not going to make any actual points then its you making an ass out of yourself.

[–]BrandonMarlowe 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

My points are based on the DSM-5, read it maybe?

Buddy I asked you a direct question about it. You understanding of why Gender Dysphoria is considered a mental illness in DSM-V is laughable. I'm not the one making and ass of myself. You mentioned the DSM to sound erudite. Now lets see some quotes. Or else, fuck off.

You are just slagging off a group of people by calling them insane while completely misrepresenting the science in the matter. The DSM-V says nothing about trans and non-binary people, so please curb your pretentious blather.

[–]Nihlismtrialism[S] 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

  1. Deviation from Social Norms

Only 1.6% are gay within the UK.

  1. Failure to Function Adequately

irrational behaviour, Maladaptiveness, Personal Suffering & Distress

• Ideal Mental Health

Positive Attitude: in touch with own feelings and identity,Have an accurate perception of reality. Resistant to stress.

it can be argued that a trans individual shows traits of abnormal behaviour and mental illness from the above. Thats not even all of the types of analysing mental health, but the ones i can remember the easiest.

DSM-V says nothing about trans and non-binary people. GID was reclassified to gender dysphoria by the DSM-5,Gender dysphoria is classified as a disorder under dual role transvestism in the 2017 ICD-10 CM. Wiki thats how easy that info was to get. So im sure i can apply these to gender dysphoria- which is a mental illness.

[–]Nihlismtrialism[S] 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

really 'buddy' the second i give the science and explanation you stop replying?

[–]slanaiya 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (23子コメント)

for instance one factor they take into account is the reality that which one lives in, some could say that 'oh but they really feel like the opposite gender'

No, they don't feel like the opposite gender. They feel like their own gender which is different to their sex. You do know the difference don't you?

[–]TheHighBlatman 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (4子コメント)

gender which is different to their sex. You do know the difference don't you?

No. Just no. Both are the same. Its a biological tag. If you associate certain characteristic or personality traits as Male or Female then you are just being tricked by societal norms.

Like when gay dudes say"I wanna wear make up and put on a dress." go ahead and do it. It doesn't make you a woman.it makes you have a dress and make up on. In fact they may be a biggot for saying this is woman trait exclusively. You know what I'm saying?

[–]slanaiya 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Both are the same.

No, they're not. Why should they be?

Its a biological tag.

Biology is mechanical not magical. Gender has causes and since causes can vary outcomes can vary.

If you associate certain characteristic or personality traits as Male or Female then you are just being tricked by societal norms.

Honestly I don't think you have a clue what you are talking about. Societal norms are not tricks. They're part of human culture which is part of our evolutionary survival suite. It's part of who we are.

[–]TheHighBlatman 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

They are the same. You die the gender/sex you are born. Look, I'm not some ignoramus and I don't think you are either but just look at it from a 100% scientific point. Biologically, homosexuality and transsexuality are gigantic failures as far as species goes, simply because it violates the one rule of survival, reproduction. It is technically a mental illness. The same way I have a mental illness that I like to titty-fuck girls. It serves no biological purpose. That doesn't make it 'wrong' because we determine what wrong is, as a society. The same society that made the totally bogus pants/skirts thing. Anyway, I forgot what I was getting at, but take it easy, I love you whoever you are, and pizzagate is real.

[–]swampbear 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Homosexuals and trans* people can and do reproduce. You are wholly unaware of how complex and multifaceted sex and gender are.

[–]TheHighBlatman 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

With the opposite sex. Remember were talking biology. Homosexuals cannot reproduce with one another. Biology.

[–]WeAreTheSheeple 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (5子コメント)

What is feeling male and what is feeling female though?

[–]slanaiya 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (4子コメント)

You mean feeling like a boy/man or girl/woman (male and female refer to sex not gender)?

Don't you know? Can't you tell which you are?

[–]WeAreTheSheeple 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yes that is what I mean. What is 'feeling' like a boy / man or a girl / woman?

I feel like me and think I would regardless of my gender.

[–]slanaiya 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes that is what I mean. What is 'feeling' like a boy / man or a girl / woman?

What does feeling like you feel like?

[–]779939977 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah I don't get this either, I just feel like me. I don't feel particularly attached to my gender at all, nor do I feel like my gender really has anything to do with my personality.

I genuinely think that gender norms are learned. They're societal. They change over time. Men used to wear make up, pink used to be considered a masculine colour. It's all made up. If you raised children outside of society, I don't think they'd have much concept of gender outside of the obvious physical traits.

[–]Nihlismtrialism[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

yes male and female refer to sex but gender refers to how we treat those two. There are biological differences between a boy to a girl, its also pretty personality based, hence why i disagree with more than two genders, one gender is someone who can only have sex with someone once they love them or something similar to that, to me thats just someone's personality. But i might have understood your question wrong so forgive me.

[–]Ballsdeepinreality 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (11子コメント)

That's kinda cherry picking. Johns Hopkins even agrees that gender identity and so on are mental disorders.

[–]slanaiya 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (6子コメント)

That's kinda cherry picking.

No, no it isn't. We don't approach someone feeling like they need to hide away because of the scar on their face the same way when they have such a scar as when they don't. That's why the OP started with that aspect. It's not cherry picking; it's removing the entire foundation of their argument.

Johns Hopkins even agrees that gender identity and so on are mental disorders.

Er, nearly everyone has gender identity.

[–]Ballsdeepinreality 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Whole wall of text and you've picked out the one thing that is relative to each individual to, "critique".

Gender identity disorder, it's a thing.

[–]White_Males 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think you missed the point of this post. No one is denying how anyone feels or suggesting trans people need to get their rights taken away, the premise of this post is simply that those feelings may originate from somewhere psychological. Many respected psychologists suggest that it is something along the lines of extreme body dysmorphia, but they still find the best cure is letting the person live as the gender they identify as.

[–]slanaiya 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

What are you talking about?

No one is denying how anyone feels or suggesting trans people need to get their rights taken away,

How does relate to what I said?

[–]GodlyUnderdog 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't believe so. In fact, I think the where this discussion is hitting major roadblocks in everyone's definition of gender.

Gender is like an identity umbrella for a lot of people and that's inaccurate. It stems from an old French word that just means "to bring forth". Or possibly from another French word gendre, or genre, which has quite the same definition as most would expect:

c. 1300, "kind, sort, class, a class or kind of persons or things sharing certain traits," from Old French gendre, genre "kind, species; character; gender" (12c., Modern French genre), from stem of Latin genus (genitive generis) "race, stock, family; kind, rank, order; species," also "(male or female) sex," from PIE root *gene- "give birth, beget," with derivatives referring to procreation and familial and tribal groups.

It wasn't until the 20th century that gender began to replace the term sex as sex had become a very erotic term.

It wasn't until the 21st century that definitions were thrown out the window and simple understanding of biology was lost in the general public. It should still mean "sex" in the scientific term. Male, Female, Hermaphrodyte, Ambigious, and Hidden. All based off of physical observations, not how someone "feels".

Which then brings me to what everyone is really using for the definition of gender, gender identity. Gender Identity would accurately describe the entire phenomena that is being discussed in this thread.

Gender identity is one's personal experience of one's own gender. This is generally described as one's private sense of being a man or a woman, consisting primarily of the acceptance of membership into a category of people: male or female. All societies have a set of gender categories that can serve as the basis of the formation of a social identity in relation to other members of society. ~Wikipedia

:  a person's internal sense of being male, female, some combination of male and female, or neither male nor female ~~Webster

and last but not least

Medical Definitions of Gender Identity

Soooo, hopefully this will help out with lack of understanding in different directions. These are important to discuss because it helps to distinguish this:

Transvestite is a Gender Identity term, not a Gender. Transgender is a Gender Identity term, not a Gender Non-binary is a Gender Identity term, not a Gender.

None of these terms describe what is being argued about however. Which is; are Transgender and Non-binary gender mental illnesses?

I would argue no, because it is a description of self identification or physical change attributes. Non-binary should be removed as Transgender is actually an umbrella term for anyone who identifies as anything other than their biological gender. The argument would actually be what causes someone to self identify transgender?

This is where the discussion should begin to spread out into a web of studies on individual basis, but that's a lot of work and almost all of the ones I have read where not actual test studies. They were testimony and affirmation. So instead, I've posted my train of thought on this subject leading to my conclusion of:

Gender Identity out of the norm is not a mental illness. Rather there is a miscommunication on perception of Gender Role. I personally would attribute high post-op suicide to flawed logic because of Gender Role perception and confusion with Gender and Gender Identity.

Are there cases of mental illness related to Gender Identity and Gender Role perception issues? Yes, but I believe it is a correlation not causation.

[–]JackSpratCould 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Pedantic

[–]mconeone 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think they mean semantics. While they have different definitions, many use both terms interchangeably (much to the ire of SJWs.)

[–]BrandonMarlowe -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Complete nonsense. Cite your sources.

[–]Ballsdeepinreality 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Johns+Hopkins+gender+identity

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/johns-hopkins-psychiatrist-transgender-mental-disorder-sex-change

Total and utter nonsense, you are totally right. /s

[–]BrandonMarlowe 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Boy, aren't you clever. So by "Johns Hopkins even agrees" you mean ONE RETIRED GUY OPINED TO A NEWS SOURCE. Hahahaha. Thanks for googling it for me. That would have been a waste of my precious time.

[–]swampbear 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hopkins has reinstated their treatment program and denounced McHugh.

[–]Smoothtank 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, of course it's a mental illness. What the fuck else could it be? The proof is in the pudding, as they say. Unless you're a female to male, then you can't make pudding.

It's a mental illness just like homosexuality. It doesn't work, so it's defective.

[–]aztechnically 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

genders are groups that we divide society into, and your gender is determined by the role you play in society. it's performative, not based on your biological sex. you can transition to a different gender just because you want to, but usually to get medical help (hormones/surgery) you have to prove to various professionals that you have "gender dysphoria," which is discomfort and psychological problems related to living as part of your current gender.

[–]Dysnomi 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

"ideal mental health"

please define

[–]Nihlismtrialism[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

the DSM-5 section of ideal mental health is based around a high number of categories, there is a good amount of arguments against the dsm-5 definition of ideal mental health such as how many boxes within the checklist do we need to have missing for someone to be classified as mentally ill.

[–]Dysnomi 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That was almost informative.

[–]Bobbafeck -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

There is also a lot of evidence to suggest that Conservatism is a mental illness.

[–]pby1000 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I once read that it is a mix up during fetus development. The wrong hormone system gets paired with the other body type. Any truth to that?

I mean, you get a male body with a female hormone system, or vice versa, so something does not "feel" right.

[–]Guano- 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That almost sounds like made up science to justify homosexuality or transgenderism.

But I'll wait for a source.

[–]Ballsdeepinreality 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'd have to see evidence of that.

There is evidence it's a mental disorder as the definition of a disorder fits the characteristics of most transgender people.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_disorder

[–]pby1000 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sure. I did a search to see if I could find the article I am thinking about, and posted a few below. I distinctly remember them discussing that certain things happen with the hormone system at a certain stage of the pregnancy, and sometimes a mix up occurs.

I am hoping people consider this information when discussing this issue. I think it does not solve this issue completely, but it offers some insight into what is going on and why each generation of heterosexual parents produce homosexual children.

I found these:

Homosexuality May Start in the Womb:

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2012/12/homosexuality-may-start-womb

Explainer: Sometimes the body mixes up male and female:

https://www.sciencenewsforstudents.org/article/explainer-sometimes-body-mixes-male-and-female

Prenatal hormones and sexual orientation:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenatal_hormones_and_sexual_orientation

Has anyone here had a shot of testosterone? I have, and it really changes your mental outlook. Certain things no longer seem like a problem. For example, I did not have time to go hike a certain remote trail I like because I was so busy with work. You know something? Fuck it. I'll just go at night with a headlamp. Why the fuck not? Never mind it is December and cold as shit. It is not a problem that I have no time during the day. I'll just fucking go at night. I don't see a problem. Do YOU see a problem? I want to get something done, SO IT WILL FUCKING GET DONE. Period.

[–]HelperBot_ 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Non-Mobile link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_disorder

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[–]PacoRamirez1966 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Of course its a mental illness. You are either male or female. You wanna play dress up as the other gender? Sure go for it! Who cares. But thinking you are a female when you have a dick is straight fucking nuts.

[–]LunchNap -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Is this a SJW honeypot thread?