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Karmafan posted 6/28/2017 08:34 AM

Dear SI friends, I am losing the plot and I need you to talk some sense into me please?

I have been with SO three months now and, despite some teething problems, things are going really well. He is, on paper, everything I am looking for in a man and more. I enjoy his company, look forward to seeing him and his texts never fail to put a smile on my face. We have meaningful conversations and we laugh like kids. I don't love him, but I like him a lot...and some!

Now to my problem. Beginning of the year, I met and dated a man, let's call him D, who showed me the true meaning of romance. He did things for me that no one had ever done before. He gave me the fairy-tale and, despite him being so far remote from my ideal man, I fell badly. The passion was unbelievable, the wait between meetings excruciating, the sex the best I have ever had. But after two months, the spell was broken and he decided to take time on us, saying he was going through a rough patch and he needed some time alone (ex was not allowing him to see the kids). Mini-heartbreak ensued.

A few months later, I met my current SO and I managed to forget all about D…or so I thought. Until last weekend, when I find a missed call from D. I sent him a text asking why he was calling me and he replied, simply: 'I am just making sure you are ok and happy'. He didn't suggest a meeting and neither did I although, if I am honest with myself, I'd give anything to see him again.

Since then, I have been in a state of turmoil. Cause, surely, if I was truly happy with my SO, a blast from the past wouldn't make such a dent? On a rational level, I know that there could be no future with the other one, as we are very different people from very different backgrounds, but boy, how alive did I feel when I was with him! I know it was all an illusion but it was good, for once, to be swept off my feet. My current relationship is very balanced and not entirely devoid of passion, and I wouldn’t do anything to jeopardise it. But I know, in my heart of hearts, that, if D wanted another go, I would find it very very hard to resist.

Please help me put things in perspective, lovely SI folks. I am acting like a bloody teenager and I feel like a complete fool!

h0peless posted 6/28/2017 09:10 AM

Cause, surely, if I was truly happy with my SO, a blast from the past wouldn't make such a dent?

That's how cheaters think. There will always be other people who are attractive. They aren't attractive because there is anything wrong with your primary relationship. Perhaps some IC and even time on your own is in order. If I were dating you, I'd want you to have these things sorted out.

TrustGone posted 6/28/2017 09:30 AM

First off you say this other guy is a very different and you don't see a future with him. That should tell you that you need to let him go unless you just want a FWB's type thing. The passion is there, but where is his commitment to the relationship. He was fishing and he was trying to lure you back in with his text. Passion does not a relationship make.

The new guy will have a hard time ever living up to the love bombing passionate guy who doesn't meet your needs in all departments like the new guy. I tend to now look at everything before I decided to give my SO a chance. He has lived up to everything I have asked of him.

XWH#2 was like the old guy. We had a whirlwind romance and the whole fairytale marriage. That was until the new wore off and he started looking for another princess. I guess I will take stability over the passion now because the passion doesn't last forever.

I guess it depends on whether you want a short term relationship or if you want one that will last.

devotedman posted 6/28/2017 10:02 AM

As always, take what you need and leave the rest. I am, most likely, plenty sensitive to this sort of thing three years after JFO.

Gently I swing the 2x4 of Hard Truth as DM Sees It:

Re-read what you wrote. Personally, I think that your committed SO deserves more than "if D wanted another go, I would find it very very hard to resist".

I have the advantage of knowing men a bit since I are one. The OM, D, is fishing. He broke it off with you and now he's deciding to give you another go and he's fishing.

You took the bait and replied. You've been with SO for three months and alone for "a few" before that and after other guy D. Your lives were, I assume, completely separated, and then you get fished. The bait, it tasted good, eh? Yummy bait.

Another comment: of course you don't love SO - you've only been together for three months. Plenty of time for infatuation to develop, to commit to exclusivity to see where it is going, but not nearly long enough (IMHO) to be able to make a clear, rational decision about a lifetime together.

Were I dating you and you were open with me and said about D "The passion was unbelievable, the wait between meetings excruciating, the sex the best I have ever had" _and_ that "after two months, the spell was broken and he decided to take time on us, saying he was going through a rough patch and he needed some time alone" I would give you a pat on the butt (assuming that we were that intimate, sounds like you are), and a "have a good life" and tell you to go be with D.

Because I'd deserve more. I do not expect that any woman that I date will -never- -ever- find another man attractive. That level of expectation is, frankly, unrealistic. What I would stridently object to is her mooning over an ex while I'm her exclusive SO. Just, no.

You say "D, who showed me the true meaning of romance". I say, crap. He showed you the true allure of dopamine and oxytocin and why Waywards become addicted to them. You two dated two months and then he broke up with you because his old meanie ex wouldn't allow him to see the kids? That's crap. That's what lawyers are for. He doesn't need to break up because his ex violates visitation, he needs to set boundaries with her.

"(D) didn't suggest a meeting and neither did I although, if I am honest with myself, I'd give anything to see him again"

Give anything? Go for it. The "anything" is your integrity and self-worth.

IfYouCanDream posted 6/28/2017 10:19 AM

It's very easy to let the temporary ego-boost of an old flame out on a fishing expedition go to one's head. You need to delete/block this guy, he is bad news and pursuing more will only end in heartache for you. Things ended for a reason, and now he's looking for kibbles from you. I 100% agree with DM's assessment of this guy's intentions.

At 3m into a new relationship, it's still early enough to not know someone enough to be "in love" and such. Continue dating to see where things progress. But you do need to be honest with him that the old flame contacted you. I might not share ALL your thoughts on the matter, but if you truly want to have a future with him then you need to end things completely with D, including blocking his number.

Forged1 posted 6/28/2017 10:40 AM

What I would stridently object to is her mooning over an ex while I'm her exclusive SO

This. In spades.

As DM has posted, Dude One is fishing. And you bit.

You just got hoovered. Dude Two doesn't deserve to be in the middle of this nonsense.

If you're "not over" Dude One, then be a big girl and let Dude Two know that. If you want to allow Dude One to continue to have access to you, let Dude Two know that.

Ever see a dog trying to chase two rabbits? The dog typically doesn't catch either of them.

Karmafan posted 6/28/2017 10:43 AM

DM, I'll take that pat in the butt! you are 100 % right on everything. I am just not acting rationally, and I bloody well know it. I can't even explain what came over me, and why I was so affected by D coming back from the dead.

I wouldn't dream of cheating on anyone, let alone someone as nice as my SO, and that is why these...feelings have upset me so much. I need to sober up, and quick

And I agree that three months are not enough to fall in love with someone but enough to know if there is potential, and I can honestly say that there is potential aplenty here!

Thank you folks, I knew you would knock some sense into me

PlanC posted 6/28/2017 10:45 AM

One sees this stereotypical dilemma faced by young women. As I have aged enough to witness the late-thirties and forties divorced set, it is interesting to find it still in play.

I think that women have core biological programming that causes this tension--one program that looks for a stable nest provider to raise young (the nice guy) and another that looks for the best gene combinations (the hot guy) and unless a woman manages to find both combined in one (which is statistically unlikely) she's doomed to have regrets of one flavor or another (unless she is a cake-eating wayward with no principles).

If I were a woman, I would view your situation as follows. I would consider where I was in life. If I was in a period where I was figuring myself out, I might take chances. But if I were in middle age, I would choose the stable companion. Because I would recognize that looks begin to fade, and that my long-term interest would be best served by using my looks and youth to find a man who would be there for me when I had neither.

devotedman posted 6/28/2017 10:58 AM

Throwing in one more comment before I go to meetings:

Karmafan, you say that the passion is less in your current relationship? Well, girl, step it up! You are responsible for your half of the relationship and if you see a lack then address it and see if your SO steps up to the plate or runs for mommy because things got exciting.

I've been - lightly chastised but not breaking Guidelines - for being TMI regarding exactly _what_ to do to increase passion. I think that it is safe to say that doing something - unexpected - is what is going to increase passion.

Read some books/articles/Cosmopolitan/whatever on things to try. Figure out some surprising or new things to try.

On a less physical front, try suggesting or planning a few weekend day trips. Do a few things like visiting museums and also a few things like going out to a music festival in another town. Try a dinner mystery thing. Shared experiences are what build passion and shared experiences (especially challenges) increase bonding.

Good luck, off to meetings now.

StrongHeart posted 6/28/2017 11:34 AM

I'm really torn about this Karma. On the one hand, I agree with DM and the other posters that your current SO deserves to be your first choice, but on the other hand I identify with you so much think, it's not your fault you still have feelings for him.

As you know, I struggle with the same thing. As you also know, logic (knowing that it may have been lacking and/or missing some important relationship necessities) does not negate our feelings that were stirred because of it. I can read all about how limerance can be unhealthy. I can think about how he got angry with me when I would try to express my fears and concerns to him...yet, I cannot forget the way I felt. I've never felt that before.

I don't think it's fair for me to date others when I still feel that way about ex, BUT, I also don't think (logically) that it would be wise to feel that way about someone else. I want to, but think it's unhealthy. So, here I am stuck where I so strongly want that passion and desire, but think that stability is the better choice. So, I push myself to try to love despite that lack of deep desire/passion. I try to be happy with stability, safety, kindness. I try to want it as badly as I want those feelings of desire and passion. I don't though. Truth be told, I want both, but I don't know if I believe that exists. Or if it does, I think I should feel it towards the stable, safe, soft-hearted guy and I just don't...so the problem lies with me.

Ah, the old heart not aligning with head debacle.

Should we beat our heads against a wall until those feelings about our ex goes away? Should we not date until they do? What if they never do?

GabyBaby posted 6/28/2017 11:43 AM

Feelings are feelings but your actions (despite the feelings) shows character.
Waywards often use the "I just fell for someone else" line to justify bad behavior. We all understand that feelings don't justify jack.

If Mr. Passion is who you want- fine. But please have some integrity and break things off with Mr. Stable before you dip your toes into Cheater Creek.

FWIW, passion in and of itself is a very shaky thing on which to build a relationship.

[This message edited by GabyBaby at 1:33 PM, June 28th (Wednesday)]

IfYouCanDream posted 6/28/2017 11:45 AM

StrongHeart - having fond feelings, or being able to look back at time with Ex and think "wowza"/whatever is different than actively pining away for someone, and certainly far different than texting/communicating with the ex. There can be a normal level nostalgia type thoughts that are not indicative of a problem.

IMO where things went sideways here, is a) communicating with ex, and b) indicating she'd give anything for another try with him. That, to me, is more than just a fleeting trip down memory lane.

Finally, it's very, VERY easy to paint with the fantasy brush about how things "were/could be" and to fall into the trap of imagining things that never were or will be. I hate to see someone give up a good relationship to be ego kibbles for someone they are romanticizing and not seeing realistically.

Jls0320 posted 6/28/2017 11:47 AM

I can definitely relate. I've been a my SO for 9 months, we have a great time, get along well, he's good to me and my kids, I can see a stable future with him. At times though I wonder if I'm settling though, or if it's just I'm so much more guarded and rational now when it comes to relationships and love. Ive had the steamy relationships and they ended in a ball of flames, but I sometimes think about those men, I wouldn't go there again though because I know now it wouldn't be long term. I also have a friend that I had a fling with over a year ago, I wanted more but he didn't, I even ended my current relationship because of him a few months ago. I quickly realized I made a mistake after SO asked to meet with me after the breakup and we chose to give it another go, after hashing out our issues. I'm 36 with two kids, I've done the wild and fun, now I'm choosing stability and comfort

SoHappyNow posted 6/28/2017 15:31 PM

Er.....ummm......(raising my hand)?

It IS possible to have the stability and deep friendship plus steamy.

Just something to think about here.

LilBlackCat posted 6/28/2017 15:50 PM

Another prime example of how women will likely consider dumping a nice guy for no real valid reason...

Forged1 posted 6/28/2017 17:00 PM

Another prime example of how women will likely consider dumping a nice guy for no real valid reason...

Let's not generalize, shall we? That doesn't help anyone.

And - to be fair - are you prepared to tell us all that you've never once considered dumping somebody for something that others might consider "not a valid reason".

There was an enormous [non-infidelity] red flag raised last year in the thing I recently called time on. For many people, that single incident would have been cause enough to walk right then and there. And, indeed, that was my initial instinct - "That's not acceptable, I'm out - call me when you have your shit together". For other people, that might not have been such a big deal.

Anyway, an explanation - not, I stress, an excuse - was provided. A chance was requested. Unsolicited corrective action was taken and remedial efforts were made. So, a chance was given. And it was given willingly and without reserve. I don't believe in setting somebody up to fail, or making them feel like nothing they do is even good enough because you're sitting there with a metaphorical airstrike on call if they so much as breathe incorrectly. That's just a crappy situation, and I don't see how it benefits anyone.

Unfortunately, this red flag saw the raising of other red flags a few months down the road. And this time, I wasn't prepared to be in the thing while more poor choices were made, compounding the damage. So I left. I don't have hard feelings about it, I don't go around trash talking the person - we were together for a while, had a good time until we didn't and we have fundamentally different ideas about what's okay and how to "do life". That's called "being incompatible". It doesn't mean that she's some sort of demon spawn that needs to be nuked out of existence. She's a fundamentally lovely person who loved me and who I cared quite a lot about, but who has not got a grip on and resolved stuff that she needs to straighten out. She's also gorgeous. I hope she sorts herself out and deals with the stuff that tripped her up here and in her marriage (she was a BS) before getting into something else. A pattern will most definitely be repeated if she doesn't.

It's not entirely unlike things with XW. Four years before D-Day, there was an exasperating period of stupid, immature behavior involving an unhealthy female friend of hers and far too much alcohol. I say "far too much alcohol" because XW was trying to keep pace with her friend, who would drink a platoon of Marines under the table at her ease. That was a red flag. Stuff got sorted out, she came to her senses and things were okay until the summer before DDay when that behavior started again. Now, my instinct said "Get the hell out", but I was married, was buried at work with serious criminal cases etc. and I basically left it at "Sort out your nonsense or I'm going to want a divorce - I didn't move over here to put up with this shit" and I pulled what was essentially a 180 (although I didn't realize that's what I was doing). Stuff came right a few months after that, probably thought she'd successfully hidden the affair only she'd managed to get herself pregnant and it all came out in a very tragic and painful way.

People are human and people mess up. It's how they handle the aftermath of the ball being dropped that matters.

Or, as a very smart person once said, "It's not the crime; it's the cover-up".

Karmafan had a thing with a guy that "made her feel" all the stuff that she's written about. That thing ended. Now, a person takes as long as they take to get over somebody. That stuff isn't linear, and there is nothing objectively "wrong" with thinking about how something might have worked out. The real trouble starts when the past doesn't stay in the past, and if you invite it into the present - particularly if you're in something with somebody else. Bringing "the one that got away" into "your new beginning" because you haven't resolved whatever it is you haven't resolved is only going to end up in chaos, drama, badly hurt feelings and quite possibly gunplay.

Finish one thing before starting something else. And if this hoover that Dude One has just pulled is THAT strong and the OP wants to go for it with Dude One that badly , then at least let her have the common courtesy to at least let Dude Two know what time it is. An ex is usually an ex for a bloody good reason or reasons, and fifteen minutes with the reality of Dude One would have the OP realizing that she's being a bit dim.

I also want to make it clear that no judgment is being passed by myself on the OP. I don't get the sense that she's going to do anything inappropriate here, and I think the fact that she came to SI and posted what she did speaks to her integrity etc. That said, if she's "not actually over" Dude One, then that's not exactly fair to Dude Two. I think most people would agree that they would prefer to be by themselves rather than with somebody who isn't committed to making whatever they have going on the main focus of things.

TL/DR Version - Sort your head out. Just don't be sneaky about stuff. That's not cool.

[This message edited by Forged1 at 5:35 PM, June 28th (Wednesday)]

PastAndFuture posted 6/28/2017 18:44 PM

Stability.

Although I agree that stepping up the passion in the stable relationship would be nice anyway.

truthsetmefree posted 6/28/2017 18:45 PM

SO = everything you are looking for in a man, enjoy his company, look forward to seeing him, texts that always make you smile, meaningful conversations, and laughter like kids (all your words)....along with totally helping you to forget all about "D".

D = Whirlwind romance, personal problems, needs "some time alone" when challenges arise, broke your heart, shows back up with no real attempt to commit to a relationship/fishing

Girl...this isn't about D...or your SO...or even passion or stability. This is about YOU.

I would strongly suspect that there are parallels in D to your past relationships - probably all the way back to early childhood relationships. I don't mean to get all psyche on you but I think you've got some baggage yet to still unpack. I'll continue out on this limb and ask - who else in your life have you felt was unavailable to you? I'd encourage you to explore this further if the answer is not readily apparent.

It IS possible to have the stability and deep friendship plus steamy.

This. It is the pillars for real intimacy. It's just sometimes our own instrument needs recalibration because we don't understand what supports true intimacy. We settle instead for drama because it feels so damn familiar.

lieshurt posted 6/28/2017 20:52 PM

LilBlackCat, making generalizations is not allowed. Thank you.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 8:52 PM, June 28th (Wednesday)]

Karmafan posted 6/29/2017 00:47 AM

Let's make something clear: I have done nothing wrong! I did not cheat, nor did I think of cheating. I only had a moment of madness when someone who I used to like A LOT got back in touch....Unfortunately I can't control the way I feel about people (I am only human, after all) but I can certainly control the way I act upon those feelings.

Nothing is going to happen with D. I am happy with where I am right now and want to give this relationship a damn good go. I am not exactly proud of myself for entertaining those thoughts, but at the same time I didn't do it intentionally to hurt or disrespect my SO

Forged1, thank you very much for seeing that, if I had had any intention to cheat, I certainly wouldn't have disclosed it on here. My post was more about being vulnerable at times, exposed to temptations and needing some advice on how to deal with that. And advice I got . With a few scoldings

Thank you everyone for your comments

[This message edited by Karmafan at 7:11 AM, June 29th (Thursday)]