Home › Forums › MGTOW Central › Might not be MGTOW anymore
This topic contains 120 replies, has 67 voices, and was last updated by Gargamel 6 hours, 17 minutes ago.
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Hello,
Some of you may remember me. I used to post a lot. If I don’t anymore, it’s not because I’ve become tired of the community; it’s simply because I now have a full-time job and have very little free time now.
When I was unemployed (and had time to browse these forums), I was, like you, frustrated about women, about how they treated me, and the like. I limited my interactions with them, thinking that it wasn’t worth it, that I had more important s~~~ to worry about, and focused on myself, my hobbies, and finding employment.
Now I have a job I really like that pays me well, a mere six months of going to the gym regularly has done wonders to my health, my appearance, my physique, my strength, my mood, I feel that my life is really good and I have a lot to look forward to. The only thing that I feel is missing is that there is/are no woman/women in my life.
I suppose I’ve always cared, but in the past I’ve found it not worth the effort and was too upset and bitter about how women in the past have treated me. But I think it’s come to the point in my life where biology has won over, and I really do desire sex, companionship, intimacy, etc., so much so that I have to do something about it.
Because I my social circles have no women (for good reason), I’ve implemented a simple habit: I go up to at least one girl a day, and tell her that she’s cute and I want to meet her.
Everyone, both men and women, has his defenses up, and for good reason: there are a lot of horrible people who will use your vulnerability to take advantage of you. But, deep down, we all want to bond with other human beings, and you can bond only when both people are vulnerable to each other. But if we keep our defenses up all the time, we can’t bond. No one wants to be the first to be vulnerable, because it’s terrifying! I’m hoping that if I express my vulnerability to women, in the long run, I’ll eventually find a few who want to drop their defenses with me when they see I’m dropping my defenses with them.
I used to hate the idea of approaching random women and hitting on them; I knew they get an ego boost from it, and I didn’t want to give them my attention if I wasn’t getting laid from it. But I realized: I want to find someone, so I must take the initiative. What do I care if some b~~~~es I’m incompatible with get an ego boost or find me creepy? Since when do I care what women think of me?
You might be saying that showing direct interest in a woman is not a good strategy, that women want men who mistreat them and ignore them. That may be true, it might even be true for most women, but I’m not looking to attract most women; that would be unrealistic and a waste of time and effort. I’m trying to find just a few I’m compatible with—and I’m sure they exist, just because there are 3.6 billion of them or so. Women who get off on guys ignoring them and treating them like crap deserve to end up with guys that ignore them and treat them like crap. I have no interest in that drama.
You might also say that you shouldn’t give your attention until a woman has earned it i.e., treat your attention the way women treat sex. To that I respond: you, out of all people, should know that women take the initiative in absolutely f~~~ing nothing (with the exception of divorce and child support). If men didn’t do everything, nothing would happen. If I want women in my life, I need to take the initiative, because women sure as s~~~ aren’t going to.
At first it was terrifying. I still get anxiety doing it, but it’s been getting easier and easier. I’m on day five or six now (no lays, but this is a long-term game after all; most men are not going to be compatible with most women, so it’s expected you’ll get rejected by most), and here’s what been happening:
1. I’ve grown way more confident. Once you realize that the vast majority of woman, even if they’re not interested, respond positively when you authentically hit on them in a non-threatening way, you realize that there was absolutely nothing to be afraid of.
2. I’ve realized that the fear of rejection is 100% irrational (yet I still feel it; weird!). Who cares if she rejects you? You’ll never run out of women! I don’t know where it (the fear) comes from, but I suspect it’s biologically ingrained: my theory is that it’s left over from the time when humans lived in small tribal communities, and if one woman found you repulsive, she’d poison the well, and because women are herd creatures, they all reject you, and you’ve permanently lost the opportunity to pa~~ on your genes.
3. I’m a hell of a lot less needy now. Before I used to angst over s~~~ like “did I send the right text? Did I text too soon? Did I text too late? Did I text too much? What’s she thinking?” and all that bulls~~~. Now I’m free to be myself, do what I want, and who cares if a woman rejects me? There’s no shortage of them!
4. I feel that I’m taking back control of my sex and love life. Before, a prospect would pop up three times a year if I was lucky. Now I always have prospects. Beautiful women are absolutely everywhere; they’re not a scarce resource, and I have the power and initiative to introduce myself to every single one, and even probably get a phone number. It’s a really empowering, wonderful feeling.
5. I’ve gotten a lot more physical in my interactions with women now. Before, I used to hide my sexuality, fearing that I’d come across as creepy, that she’d be turned off, etc.; but now, who cares if a woman is turned off by my sexuality, since there are so many of them? I have yet to achieve the “unapologetically sexual” mindset completely (like the sluts in SlutWalks, except less obnoxious), but I definitely feel I’m getting there, and I’m happy with how I’m changing.
6. Creepiness has absolutely nothing to do with a man’s behavior. If the exact same man approaches ten different women, does/says the exact same thing, expresses his sexuality in a non-threatening way, nine of them will find it charming and flattering (and will perhaps even be aroused), while one will find it creepy. Creepiness has nothing to do with behavior and everything to do with how a woman chooses to perceive it. Now I no longer worry about being perceived as creepy.
I’m of the opinion that women are like drugs: they can be very dangerous, and they have destroyed (and are destroying) many men who mess with them; but if you’re careful, know the risks, and use them in moderation, you can have a positive, healthy experience. I still think cohabitation, marriage, and parenthood are losing deals. I don’t believe in the concept of a “soul mate,” nor do I believe in lasting, unconditional love; but I do believe you can have positive experiences with women, and I’m taking the steps to try to have them.
What do you think? Does my desire for women, my initiative to satisfy that desire, my optimism in the outcome, and my belief I can eventually find a woman/women whose values and desires align with mine, and that we can enrich each other’s lives, mean I’m not MGTOW anymore?
". . . elle, suivant l’usage des femmes et des chats qui ne viennent pas quand on les appelle et qui viennent quand on ne les appelle pas, s’arrêta devant moi et m’adressa la parole"—Prosper Mérimée
Do whatever makes you feel alive. To be honest with you you can shoot heroin and have less of an addiction
My son Arnold said you all were okay but then again sometimes he fibs. Not everybody is going to get it but that's okay
I have the same thoughts and told a brother on here yesterday that I have no woman friends.
Maybe that’s part of the reason you feel so refreshed? As well as having your affairs in order, you don’t have them venting to you and never being around when you need to talk or myriads of other totally time wasting favors.
I wish you the best but just want to warn you as a brother to tread carefully and watch your neck as you play the most dangerous game.
Chase a check, never chase a chick...
too upset and bitter about how women in the past have treated me.
It’s your box of grenades, have fun.
Justice is in the eyes of the beholder, not in a court of law. Justice is now selfserve, choose wisly.
You can always just pump and dump. Level 1 MGTOW
Fuck bitches... literally and metaphorically
too upset and bitter about how women in the past have treated me.
It’s your box of grenades, have fun.
It’s the summer solstice longest day of the year or so and we lose a lot of men around this time of year testosterone is peaking and everybody is looking at all they’re short shorts.
Think about the ramifications of this kind of a jaunt into disreality.
I need to have female friends to have their validation
Bollocks
My son Arnold said you all were okay but then again sometimes he fibs. Not everybody is going to get it but that's okay
I think the only single thing that all here would agree that makes one MGTOW is avoiding marriage at all costs. So, until then, I suppose anyone can be MGTOW to varying degrees as long as they do not get married.
Don’t f~~~ing get married…
I would also add, do not let a woman dictate your life/choices in any way.
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." - Jiddu Krishnamurti
Who am I to judge you?
Do and be as you desire, best wishes to you brother.
EnjoyThere was a time in my life when I gave a fuck. Now you have to pay ME for it
Never forget about what brought you here in the first place.
If it has tits or tires, you know you're going to have problems.
Maybe that’s part of the reason you feel so refreshed? As well as having your affairs in order, you don’t have them venting to you and never being around when you need to talk or myriads of other totally time wasting favors.
I’ve never had female friends. Maybe once, briefly, in high school, but they were hardly friends.
It’s your box of grenades, have fun.
I believe that to get most things you want in life, it requires risk. Meeting and bonding with a woman requires you to be vulnerable.
Perhaps you believe that the benefits of a woman’s company outweighs the potential costs, risks, and effort. And that’s fine. There’s no right answer; every man has to decide for himself what effort he’s going to put in, if at all.
But I can tell you for certain that I believe my biology has won me over, and I don’t see it going away any time soon.
You can always just pump and dump.
If I pump and dump, it’s not because I get off on it, it’s because a woman has offered me nothing but sex. I don’t want that to be the case, but it’s a very realistic possibility.
Don’t f~~~ing get married…
I’ve seen too many men’s lives and happiness ruined by marriage and family to want one myself.
Families are not supposed to be good for you. They exist because they pa~~ on your genes. Your happiness isn’t important. But I have one life, I want to take it easy, and live it for me, not for my genes.
". . . elle, suivant l’usage des femmes et des chats qui ne viennent pas quand on les appelle et qui viennent quand on ne les appelle pas, s’arrêta devant moi et m’adressa la parole"—Prosper Mérimée
Hey brother,
First things first… A mind that can entertain two contradictory ideologies is an intelligent and mature mind.
I have enjoyed your posts in past and if I am not mistaken you also play piano. You shared a video with us once. Was nice.
I’m hoping that if I express my vulnerability to women, in the long run, I’ll eventually find a few who want to drop their defenses with me when they see I’m dropping my defenses with them
You are dead wrong.
Read this and you’re welcome. Consider it as a gift as you take a detour via plantation.
You will be back. Swallow your pride and let brothers here tell you ‘I told you so.’
I’m of the opinion that women are like drugs: they can be very dangerous, and they have destroyed (and are destroying) many men who mess with them; but if you’re careful, know the risks, and use them in moderation, you can have a positive, healthy experience.
The proposition is why perform a task that demands your careful behavior?
I am not against mitigating risks but a stronger approach and admittedly extremely hard one is to accept the longing for a female and intimacy without actively pursuing it every waking moment of life.
I firmly believe MGTOW and a zen/monk lifestyle are complimentary to each other.
Wish you all the success and happiness brother. Seek what your heart desires. But don’t let your ego get in the way of admitting that men here were right all along.
Awareness
I’m so glad you dropped by, because I have been silently wondering about you – as recent as just yesterday. Good to see you.
Might not be MGTOW anymore
Let’s drop the 5-letter label and forget about that for a moment.
If I want women in my life, I need to take the initiative, because women sure as s~~~ aren’t going to.
Well doesn’t that say everything right there.
When I need to sharpen my sword, I have to take it over to that big grinding wheel with a pedal, and if I pump my foot hard enough, I may even see SPARKS!!! But the moment I release the effort, nothing happens… and it just kinda sits there useless in the corner, and gets rusty.
Anyone can see the metaphor in that.
(approaching women) At first it was terrifying.
Why?
She’s just a woman. Not a dentist’s chair.
I still get anxiety doing it, but it’s been getting easier and easier.
Here’s a nickel’s worth of free advice . . . .
You don’t know her yet.
Therefore she doesn’t MEAN anything to you, yet.
And since she doesn’t MEAN anything to you . . .
Her “rejection” can’t possibly mean anything to you either.Congratulations. You’re cured of all “approach anxiety”.
Thank me another time.If female rejection isn’t hilarious to you yet, you’re not ready.
You need to be amused by it, and think she’s got lousy taste.
Then no amount of rejection will matter a damn.find a woman/women whose values and desires align with mine, and that we can enrich each other’s lives, mean I’m not MGTOW anymore?
Sharing your life with your beloved wife is the very antithesis of MGTOW.
But who cares. First and foremost, you’re a “MAN”, man.
“Am I Rock-man-enough” is the only question you need to ask yourself.You’re in your early 20s. HAVE FUN. And make your mistakes. That’s what your 20s are for. Your 30s are to pay for those mistakes. And your 40s are to pay for the drinks.
If you keep doing what you've always done... you're gonna keep getting what you always got.What do you think? Does my desire for women, my initiative to satisfy that desire, my optimism in the outcome, and my belief I can eventually find a woman/women whose values and desires align with mine, and that we can enrich each other’s lives, mean I’m not MGTOW anymore?
You’re still a MGTOW because you’re living your life on your own terms.
Like too many sadly, you have confused MGTOW and being a man going his own way with only being a celibate hermit or monk.
I have an active social life, a social life which includes women. I engage with that social life and with those women on my own terms. There are no claims or responsibilities except for those which I freely accept.
There are women in my life who enrich my life. They do so, however, on my terms.
There are women in my who I see socially. They do so, however, on my terms.
There are even women in my life with whom I have sex. Again, that occurs on my terms.
MGTOW is not an “all or nothing” proposition. MGTOW is all about risk management and mitigation. Some risks are best avoided entirely, others can be managed to some extent or another. Just which risk is which will depend on the man in question.
We are all individuals. That means each of our journeys are individual ones.
You are aware of the risks. You are managing those risks. You are going your own way.
You are a MGTOW.
Do not date. Do not impregnate. Do not co-habitate. And, above all, do not marry. Reclaim and never again surrender your personal sovereignty.
You’ve only your life to lose.
So many men are affected by Stockholm Syndrome even if only by osmosis.
That’s the tattoo Dave quote of the day by the way and don’t be gay. Seriously dude you have to get some help going back to the plantation will make you very sad it will make you wish for the days that you were free..
40 years ago I made just such a stupid decision don’t let your alleged biology map your life. are you a man or a mouseMy son Arnold said you all were okay but then again sometimes he fibs. Not everybody is going to get it but that's okay
You are one of those true forced loneliness MGTOW that went MGTOW as a defense mechanism to not getting laid.
Your view of MGTOW was distorted in the first place, lots of MGTOW, usually the rich and/or attractive ones, have women in their lives. I used to get into casual relationships as a MGTOW but it was a phase for me that pa~~ed.
IF you want to f~~~ some women, then go for it. But remember that MGTOW knowledge comes from experience with women not lack there of. If you start getting feels for women and get into a serious relationship then you wont get my support.
Doesn’t anybody just get dogs anymore???
She will trap you into the plantation, soft and slow.
“Playing unicorn” as a chameleon.
You don’t end a relationship with a borderline, you survive it.
80 percent of women have that…
And 99 percent are smartphone addicted and…
Do whatever you want…
We have opted out for a reason.
As we all agree, Women are now:
:::::: The wall gets them all ::::::You are dead wrong.
Read this and you’re welcome. Consider it as a gift as you take a detour via plantation.
Surrender
Rollo Toma~~i is using the word “vulnerability” differently than I mean it. He defines vulnerability as “the kind that opens you up to life-destroying consequences” (taken from that article). He also says: ” The Blue Pill conditions men to believe that crying, or being more emotionally sensitive, or really anything that makes him identify with the feminine in his personal character is a form of this endearing vulnerability that women can (by appealing to equalist reason) be expected to respect in a man. ”
From this definition, he is correct that “vulnerability” is the same as weakness and unattractive. But that’s not what I mean when I say “vulnerability.”
When I say, “I want to make myself vulnerable to a woman” that does not mean “I want to put myself in a position to get f~~~ed in the a~~.” It means that I want to find a woman with whom I can express myself truly, and make my desires known, to open myself up to rejection.
If you have to always “game” someone, you can never really bond with her. Being vulnerable means expressing yourself and your desires, i.e., “This is who I am, this is what I think, this is what I want. Think what you want.”—that is vulnerability.
The proposition is why perform a task that demands your careful behavior?
Because I think that I can have a positive experience. Skydiving and driving also require careful behavior; but, if you do it properly, they are beneficial experiences.
You don’t know her yet.
Therefore she doesn’t MEAN anything to you, yet.
And since she doesn’t MEAN anything to you . . .
Her “rejection” can’t possibly mean anytime to you either.Hey Key, so glad you chimed in. I made a point to keep updated with each one of your posts; but I’ve gotten so busy, have so little time, and you post so much, that I’ve fallen way behind, and the website interface doesn’t make it so easy to navigate previous posts (it did at one point; you could edit the URL and go back 100 or so pages worth or so of posts, but now all you can do is click “load more replies” and that’s very time consuming). But don’t think that I haven’t learned anything, or have taken nothing away.
Regarding your comment, I’m with you 100%, and I understand that completely. But, as I said, the fear of rejection is irrational. I, rationally, understand that there’s no reason to fear it, but for some reason it still exists (though it’s slowly going away through desensitization).
Doesn’t anybody just get dogs anymore???
No, they’re too high maintenance and they poop everywhere. I hate poop.
". . . elle, suivant l’usage des femmes et des chats qui ne viennent pas quand on les appelle et qui viennent quand on ne les appelle pas, s’arrêta devant moi et m’adressa la parole"—Prosper Mérimée
80 percent of women have that…
Gar,
All your bashing of borderlines is very stigmatizing. Its not like they will all stab you in the back.
(Some will stab you in the eye)
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MGTOW | Men Going Their Own Way.