全 15 件のコメント

[–]dgerard 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (2子コメント)

1)Who is jihan and why does this sub love him so much

Runs most of the bitcoin mining and litecoin mining. I think we just delight in the way he pisses off the ideologues and holders, 'cos he's just straightforwardly in it for the money and isn't fucking delusional. Which is comparatively refreshing.

2)What is segwit and why do big blockers hate it

6) is segwit2x a compromise or just a excuse to make blocks bigger

8) What is the difference from segwit and bigger blocks

All of these are because bitcoin reached capacity (of what could fit in a 1MB block) in mid-2015, everything is fucked now, and it basically can't be fixed. The fixes are:

  1. bigger blocks - this is only a stopgap, 'cos going by the 2013-2015 trend we'd be running about 1.6MB a block now. Will centralise Bitcoin more, though that ship really sailed in 2013.
  2. work around it by bolting an altcoin on the side and doing all the real transactions there. (sidechains, which are vaporware)
  3. work around it by bolting a new network on the side and doing all the real transactions there. (Lightning Network, which is vaporware)
  4. switch to an altcoin that isn't full yet. This appears to be the solution the consumer end use case, i.e. druggies, are exploring.

In the meantime they all blame each other and call each other evil.

4)What is going to happen after bitcoin hardforks

Comedy gold. If they're really pigheaded about it, they can re-enact what happened to Ethereum vs Ethereum Classic, i.e. replay attacks against the other blockchain.

5) why would anyone want high fees (and low transactions processed)

Because everything in Bitcoin is so fucked up that even stupid ideas seem more attractive than saying "you know what, Mike Hearn was right, bitcoin's buggered."

7) whats with the beef between /r/btc and /r/bitcoin

When shit is melting down, shitheads turn on each other, to the hilarity of horrible sneer culturists like us.

"the spectacle of an entire community in a prisoner’s dilemma scenario mashing the Betray button as hard and as fast as possible over and over" - QuarkJets on YOSPOS re: bitcoiners

[–]dgerard 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

oh, I forgot to say what segwit is. Well. Bitcoin has things called transaction IDs. Now, you might think you could use these as, say transaction IDs. But welcome to Bitcoin. They can be messed with in transit. Segwit (Segregated Witness) fixes this.

[I think. Correction on this welcomed.]

Why is this controversial? Because (IIRC) they need it to make the Lightning Network (planned vaporware) work. And this means segwit must be evil if you don't like the LN plan.

yeah, that's why an obvious change to fix something really stupid about Bitcoin is a rallying cry for people who don't understand it.

[–]jstolfi 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

SegWit does fix that bug and it probably works as intended.

There is one technical objection to it, even if not overriding: it is not a clean solution, but a "clever" (read: ugly and convoluted) "hack", way more complicated than it should be. It makes the protocol itself a bit more complicated -- hence a bit more difficult to learn, maintain, and work with. For one thing, the hack lets old clients think that some coins can be spent without signatures, whereas clients who have upgraded to SegWit know that the signature requirement is in an "extension record" appended to the transaction record (and to each block), which older clients do not see.

The reason why Core chose this complicated solution is that they wanted to avoid a hard fork at all costs.

And the reason why Core hates hard forks is that, if they were to allow one, there would be no excuse to not lift the bock size limit at the same time (basically 2 lines of code).

And the reason why Core absolutely wants to keep the 1 MB limit is that Greg still hopes to see his "fee market" stabilize, and raising the limit would postpone that goal by years. (The "fee market" still gives no signs of stabilizing, even after 18 months. Those who understand the basics of network theory, like Mike Hearn, tried to explain why it can't ever stabilize; but Greg won't listen..)

Another technical objection is that, because of the large number of lines of code that it affects (in the Core client and in all software out there), it creates a non-trivial risk of bugs. It has been extensively tested, but one never knows.

An economic objection is that it changes the way transaction size is measured: data in that extension record are counted at 1/4 of its true size. Thus, a transaction with 200 bytes of normal data and 200 bytes of extension data is considered to have only 250 bytes of "pseudo-size" . This change affects both (a) the packing of transaction into blocks (since it will be the sum of pseudo-sizes that cannot exceed 1 MB) and (b) the transaction fees (since the transactions will be ordered by fee divided by pseudo-size, rather than size, when assembling a block).

This change affects the "consensus rules" that say when a block is valid, but in a way that still makes the change a soft fork rather than a hard fork. Because of (a), miners will have to use the pseud-size when deciding how many transactions they can put into a block. But then (b) is practically mandatory, because it maximizes their expected fee revenue from the next block.

There is no technical or economic justification for this size-counting change. Apparently Core added it to SegWit in order to provide an incentive for for people to actually adopt SegWit -- that is, to actually issue transactions with signatures segregated as it allows. For miners and relays, the extension records costs pretty much the same as the normal part. The extension part must be handled, checked, transmitted and stored by all miners and relay nodes, except by simple clients who do not want to verify other peopl's signatures in the blockchain.

The main objection to SegWit is political. Core tries to claim that, with the new way of counting sizes, SegWit will let ~70% more transactions fit into the 1 MB limit. Therefore, Core argues, there is no need to even discuss a real block size increase until SegWit is activated and is being used by everybody. Which of course is unacceptable to the big-blockers, who want a real increase so that the network becomes uncongested again -- or, at least, requires much lower fees.

Thus, I would guess that Core is dead set on SegWit (even at the cost of magnifyig the Size War) because it is a way to block any real size limit increase, that could postpone the dreamed-of success of the "fee market". And many big-blockians oppose it for that reason too.

Another objection that can be made against SegWit is that is is not really necessary, and does not deserve the priority that it got from Core (to the point of being included in the Core release in a short time, in spite of all the controversy around it). A transaction can be "malleated" by a hostile agent only after it has been broadcast or shared with someone else, and before it is included in the blockchain. Many applications that need to worry about such attacks can easily prevent it by using some other method to identify unconfirmed transactions.

The bug is worrisome mainly for chained unconfirmed transactions: if client C2 issues T2 that spends the output of T1 before T1 is confirmed, it could happen that a malicious agent malleates T1 into T1m, and T1m gets confirmed instead of T1. Then T2 would fail, and the client C2 would have to issue it again. But such chains are problematic anyway, because the client C1 who issued T1 himself could issue a double-spend T1d, which could get confirmed instead of T1.

Fixing the malleability bug is said to be essential for the LN. Yet that is not clear; I have seen claims to the contrary. Anyway the LN has not reached the vaporware stage yet, so that cannot be an excuse to push SegWit with such urgency. And the bug could be fixed in a much simpler way with a hard fork...

[–]jstolfi 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

  1. Jihan is the guy who takes the most money from stupid butters, by selling them 70% of all miners and 20% of all new coins. We love him because of that, and because he induces the stupidest butters to do really fun things, like offering money for his assassination.

  2. I will not tell you what segwit is because it is fun to watch the Butters fighting about it without the foggiest idea of what it is. Big blockers hate it because they suspect it is some subtle way to call them "dimwits".

  3. I can't answer that question either because you forgot to ask it. (Did you know that it is not rude to use the middle finger for counting?)

  4. If all goes well, after the hard fork there will be two bitcoins, and thus twice the comedy gold, plus the fun of watching the two sides throwing stuff at each other like monkeys at the zoo. Also Coinbase will again bungle it and lose tons of money, as they did at the mEthereum Classic/Punk fork.

  5. Freud may explain why Greg wants high fees. I can't.

  6. SegWit2x is four times halfwit. It will let bitcoin evolve in the same direction it is evolving now, but at the same speed.

  7. The butters in /r/btc hate the butters in /r/bitcoin, whereas those in /r/bitcoin hate those in /r/btc. That is pretty much the only significant difference.

  8. SegWit is like McDonalds putting one extra slice of pickles in their sandwiches to keep their customers from switching to Burger King; 2 MB blocks is like their customers demanding TWO extra slices of pickles.

[–]devliegende 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

1 The guy that said "fuck you motherfuckers fuck'

4 Go to the many moons of Jupiter.

5 Because that's how to buy a space shuttle

6 Its an excuse to make segwit bigger.

7 Segwit has bigger blocks but not bigger enough for the bigger blocks crowd.

8 A guy named Thermos.

[–]gerradp 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

He actually said "Fuck your mother if you want fuck," which I will never forget because it is a watershed comedy gold milestone

[–]geriksonI'm only in it for the lols 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Wow answering that sounds like way more effort than trolling for comedy gold :(

[–]nissnpig5[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yeah I understand that it seems effort to awnser I just want to know becouase I don't understand what is going apart from fees being to high

[–]geriksonI'm only in it for the lols 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I lost track about half a year ago, now I'm waiting for the UASF debacle to happen so I can reset.

[–]nissnpig5[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

What is USAF?

[–]geriksonI'm only in it for the lols 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

UASF = User Activated Soft Fork, basically a way for people without hashpower to "force" a softfork to enable SegWit etc.

[–]potato-in-your-anus 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Get a "New Shill Introduction Booklet" from Nancy on the second floor.

[–]biglambdaI AM VERY SMART! -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

1)Who is jihan and why does this sub love him so much

He runs Bitmain which has the largest mining operation and also manufactures and sells mining ASICs. He is probably the most powerful individual currently in Bitcoin but that will likely change soon.

2)What is segwit and why do big blockers hate it

Segwit segregates the witness data. What that means is that each transaction has two parts the description of what the transaction does and the signatures that "witness" that the transaction is valid. Segwit moves the signature part of the transaction into a separate data file. This allows several bug fixes, additional features that will enable many of the scaling solutions that are planned for bitcoin. A beneficial side effect is that since the 1MB block limit now only affects the descriptions of the transactions more transactions can fit into the block. I think big blockers hate it because they think it's not as effective as just raising the size limit. They also seem to believe a lot of complete nonsense about the Bitcoin core developers.

The reason Jihan Wu hates segwit is because his company has a way of gaining an advantage in mining called covert ASICBOOST. ASICBOOST makes Jihan's mining operation more efficient. Segwit disables this advantage so Jihan has an interest in delaying its deployment for as long as he can.

4)What is going to happen after bitcoin hardforks

That depends on a lot of things. If only Bitmain participates in the hardfork then they will just be mining an invalid chain which they will likely try to sell as bitcoin. They will either fail and give up or succeed at creating an alt-coin. If it's the latter than people holding bitcoin will hold the same amount of each token.

5) why would anyone want high fees (and low transactions processed)

Some fees are necessary to distinguish transactions that are important to people from unimportant spam. However very high fees are not good but they may be inevitable. The reason people want to cap the block size is because letting it be unlimited is likely to have negative consequences for the health of the network.

6) is segwit2x a compromise or just a excuse to make blocks bigger

Basically it appears that some parts of the community are trying to force the 2MB blocks by holding back Segwit. They are basically conflating two things that aren't really connected.

7) whats with the beef between /r/btc and /r/bitcoin

/u/Theymos the moderator of /r/bitcoin made what I consider to be a mistake, he censored big blockers on that subreddit. /r/btc became the place where people with that goal could speak freely. Unfortunately it's kind of a cesspool of conspiracy theories. So is /r/buttcoin frankly.

8) What is the difference from segwit and bigger blocks

Based on my description above, bigger blocks would increase the size of the main data record for each block which is currently capped.