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The dream lives on and will prevail (i.redd.it)

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トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]rmvaandr 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (6子コメント)

I really like Ross's LinkedIn description that he wrote before creating the Silk Road:

Now, my goals have shifted. I want to use economic theory as a means to abolish the use of coercion and agression amongst mankind. Just as slavery has been abolished most everywhere, I believe violence, coercion and all forms of force by one person over another can come to an end. The most widespread and systemic use of force is amongst institutions and governments, so this is my current point of effort. The best way to change a government is to change the minds of the governed, however. To that end, I am creating an economic simulation to give people a first-hand experience of what it would be like to live in a world without the systemic use of force.

It is still there btw: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rossulbricht/

[–]m3rl0credditor for 3 months 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (3子コメント)

It's a bit condecending considering he quite literally ordered hitmen, lol.

[–]Coolsource -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Lol how do you know he wrote it before creating Silkroad? He is a hypocrite

[–]Ludachris9000 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

So Monero?

[–]BitcoinParanoid 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (9子コメント)

. . . and have people killed.

Ross Ulbricht

EDIT: I apologise for this cheap shot. Here's a copy of one of my replies from below:

While I don't agree that the evidence of that is available to us for the attempted murders is "extremely flimsy" (this article seems pretty reasonable: https://www.dailydot.com/crime/silk-road-murder-charges-ross-ulbricht/) I do agree that you're right about my comment being a cheap shot. I apologise for that and my only excuse is that I'm annoyed that a person who's admitted to enabling and profiting from the supply of heroin, crack and meth can be hero worshipped by so many.

[–]lightcoin 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

He has never been found guilty of that, and the evidence was extremely flimsy. The messages weren't PGP signed, and they were stored on a server that was controlled by corrupt FBI agents for extended periods of time. Not saying it didn't happen, but that I haven't been shown evidence that convinces me "beyond a reasonable doubt." I think rather than take opportunities like this to make cheap shots at Ross, that you should respect his right to remain innocent until proven guilty.

[–]BitcoinParanoid 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

While I don't agree that the evidence of that is available to us for the attempted murders is "extremely flimsy" (this article seems pretty reasonable: https://www.dailydot.com/crime/silk-road-murder-charges-ross-ulbricht/) I do agree that you're right about my comment being a cheap shot. I apologise for that and my only excuse is that I'm annoyed that a person who's admitted to enabling and profiting from the supply of heroin, crack and meth can be hero worshipped by so many.

I'll edit my original comment to reflect this.

[–]3domfighter 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (6子コメント)

How does that big government cock taste? You'll just believe anything on the internet, won't you?

[–]BitcoinParanoid 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Here's a copy of a post I made awhile ago. Feel free to fill me in if I've missed anything important.

There was no shortage of evidence for the drug charges and he's even admitted that he created the site. I think the chats for the fake assassinations were over a significant amount of time, there's a lot of unnecessary risk involved if they wanted to fake it. Apparently there's evidence that some chats were deleted from the database, but that's very different from inserting records into a database. You'd have to be a semi proficient database professional to be able to insert records without it showing up under a forensic investigation. He wasn't charged with being a "website administrator" he was charged facilitating the sale of an unprecedented amount of hard drugs, and taking his cut as well. It's more likely that the Bitcoin transactions do match up with whatever records the undercover agent kept and that's why there's no mention of it. You'd think the undercover agent would have reports to their superiors to fall back on as well. I don't think Ross's defence is saying the chat logs are fake, I think Ross claims that it wasn't him operating the DPR account at the time, it was someone else. If he can't come up with evidence of that then it's asking too much for anyone to believe that he started as DPR and finished as DPR but it wasn't really him in the middle.

[–]3domfighter 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I'm not necessarily saying the logs are fake, simply that even a cursory glance at the facts offers up alternative theories. And, having a bit of firsthand knowledge about how these people operate, I simply don't buy it. It's all to convenient, and they don't go around NOT prosecuting murder-for-hire schemes when they purportedly have the goddam transcripts to prove it. The fact that those charges were never prosecuted speaks volumes. Also, since you mention forensic investigation of the logs, a) to my knowledge that was never conducted, and b) maybe it was and is part of the reason he wasn't charged. Either way, no one died and he wasn't charged, yet he's "known" by some as "that murdery drug lord guy." These fucks are sure good at what they do.

[–]BitcoinParanoid 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

We don't have direct access to all the evidence so both of us are just speculating. My problem with you and other Ulbricht supporters is that your belief in his innocence (and the Christ-like, hero worship) is unreasonable on the information available.

Without knowing for sure, it's pretty likely that he wasn't prosecuted for the fake assassinations because the agents involved in setting those up were themselves arrested and jailed.

If you believe it's a conspiracy, then it's a pretty shitty conspiracy. They couldn't even keep the corrupt agents from being arrested, prosecuted and jailed. All done, by the way, by the very same "big government" you accuse of framing Ulbricht.

Finally, if you think enabling the supply of herion and meth is a victimless crime then we'll never be able agree on anything.

[–]3domfighter 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

You're right, we don't definitively know what happened. We particularly don't KNOW that he tried to have anyone killed because the government didn't even attempt to prove it. Even with a 93% conviction rate, no charge for the most heinous of all accusations against him. Innocent til proven guilty is still something I adhere to. And as for "enabling the supply of herion [sic] and meth," are you implying that those things aren't at hand for any high school kid that wants them? More than one academic study determined that the Silk Road was an effective agent of harm reduction with respect to drug use.

[–]Throwaway01847redditor for 1 week 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

And also that those murder for hire charges were mentioned at first to label him a danger to society and deny him bond.

[–]thread314 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fucking hell, settle down.

[–]thread314 -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (13子コメント)

He paid to have people murdered. I really do not understand the hero worship for this guy.

[–]3domfighter 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (12子コメント)

And I can't believe how willing you are to believe a horseshit smear campaign by the state.

A) No one died.

B) He wasn't even charged with those "crimes." They were used to smear him because a lot of people these days support a different tack regarding the drug war. Facilitating drug sales wasn't enough hype to vilify and make an example of him to the government's satisfaction.

[–]thread314 -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (9子コメント)

Correct, no one died, but he did not know this. He believed people were being killed and was paying for this to be done. That is not something you can handwave away.

Have you read the transcript? It's chilling how casual he was with it.

[–]freedombit 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Agreed. It's also chilling how casually at least two government agents, people that are entrusted with huge amounts of power, abused it in ways that hurt people.

[–]thread314 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

What do you mean by this?

[–]freedombit 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

https://www.google.com/search?q=two+federal+agents+stealing+Bitcoin&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

The theft of that Bitcoin hurt people. There are still 650k Bitcoin missing from MtGox, and it is known that one of these agents attempted to "collaborate" with MtGox, probably trying to access the systems there. Supposedly these two agents were not working together, despite that they had previous contact and evidence showing that there was at least a third agent involved. Regardless, the Bitcoin that they stole hurt the people that owned the Bitcoin before it was stolen. But that's not the real damage. The real damage is the increasing lack of trust that the general public has for their government when corruption happens and the sentences are less forceful than they are for non-government people.

[–]thread314 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I was not aware of that, thanks for sharing.

[–]freedombit [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

n/p - I lost a life changing amount of Bitcoin at MtGox, and Bitcoin doesn't just disappear. As of now, there are only a handful of people that have access to the last known addresses, and those have not been released to the public despite many outcries for that to happen. I am convinced that this is an international dispute in which two different governments/societies see this situation differently. There were a number of big "hits" on Bitcoin that all seem related. I have done a couple write ups on this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MtGox/comments/2s96f0/bitcoin_heists_charted/

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=871094.0;topicseen

[–]3domfighter 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (2子コメント)

You have two separate feds who had access to those logs, both of whom are now doing time for various misconduct during the investigation, and you believe the logs are accurate?

[–]Sugar_Daddy_Peter 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, yes. The corrupted investigation said so.

[–]DesignerAccount 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes.

[–]jaimewarlock 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

How do you know he truly believed that? Maybe he was just trying to signal a false intention. He may have known the whole payout was a scam, but if other people believed that he was willing to commit murder to protect himself, then they would be less willing to extort him. Nobody really knows what was going on in his head.

[–]senselessgambleredditor for 5 weeks -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

He wasn't even charged with those "crimes."

So we hate the "system" but worship it if it suits our purposes.

cmon... just because they dont charge people has nothing to do with whether or not it happened. It just means that it didnt fit their agenda or the "system" rules which you anyway think is broken.

[–]thread314 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

So true. A lot of confirmation bias in action here.