| 00:06 | gribble | {"ticker":{"high":1.701,"low":1.5211,"vol":15075,"buy":1.5564,"sell":1.595,"last":1.595}} |
| 00:06 | JFK911 | ;;bc,mtgox |
| 00:06 | JFK911 | ;;bc,stats |
| 00:06 | gribble | Current Blocks: 120210 | Current Difficulty: 92347.59095209 | Next Difficulty At Block: 120959 | Next Difficulty In: 749 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 12 hours, 23 minutes, and 49 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 104784.37005952 |
| 00:09 | CIA-89 | bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * rfbad645b4bd7 gentoo/dev-libs/jansson/ (.git-info Manifest jansson-1.3.ebuild): Import dev-libs/jansson-1.3 from "nikai" overlay http://tinyurl.com/5spvsz3 |
| 00:10 | luke-jr | ;;later tell jgarzik for some reason, pushpool only links if -lmysqlclient is listed on the command line AFTER db-mysql.o |
| 00:10 | gribble | The operation succeeded. |
| 00:14 | EPiSKiNG | ;;bc,calc 1036000 |
| 00:14 | gribble | The average time to generate a block at 1036000 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 4 days, 10 hours, 20 minutes, and 47 seconds |
| 00:14 | EPiSKiNG | ;;bc,est 1036000 |
| 00:14 | gribble | Error: "bc,est" is not a valid command. |
| 00:14 | EPiSKiNG | ;;bc,estimate 1036000 |
| 00:14 | gribble | 104784.37005952 |
| 00:14 | EPiSKiNG | ;;bc,gen 1036000 |
| 00:14 | gribble | The expected generation output, at 1036000 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 11.2838699044 BTC per day and 0.470161246016 BTC per hour. |
| 00:15 | EPiSKiNG | ;;bc,gend 1036000 104784.37005952 |
| 00:15 | gribble | The expected generation output, at 1036000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 104784.37005952, is 9.94459576069 BTC per day and 0.414358156696 BTC per hour. |
| 00:16 | programe | ;;bc,gen 750000 |
| 00:16 | gribble | The expected generation output, at 750000 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 8.16882473773 BTC per day and 0.340367697405 BTC per hour. |
| 00:17 | programe | ;;bc,gen 120000 |
| 00:17 | gribble | The expected generation output, at 120000 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 1.30701195804 BTC per day and 0.0544588315849 BTC per hour. |
| 00:19 | CIA-89 | bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r8a79b9003b5f gentoo/net-p2p/pushpool/ (Manifest pushpool-9999.ebuild): net-p2p/pushpool: Initial import of live-git http://tinyurl.com/5vp4z9e |
| 00:29 | CIA-89 | bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * rede72535995f gentoo/net-p2p/pushpool/ (Manifest pushpool-0.3.ebuild): net-p2p/pushpool: 0.3 http://tinyurl.com/4y9lv53 |
| 01:01 | programe | CPU :: Ufasoft's SSE2 miner would work with pushpool? |
| 01:22 | programe | im getting upstream RPC error |
| 01:22 | programe | does anyone know what it means? |
| 01:25 | B0g4r7 | It means about what you'd think. |
| 01:28 | programe | B0g4r7 what? |
| 01:28 | EPiSKiNG | anyone else notice an issue with teh new Phoenix miner not getting the correct MH/s? |
| 01:29 | EPiSKiNG | I ran mine for a like an hour, and the MH/s show better than poclbm, but when I check deepbit's reports, it shows a substantial decrease |
| 01:30 | fabianhjr | I have been searching for a while and I am 95% sure there was a Pledge for a MyBitcoin FOSS alternative. :/ |
| 01:31 | dust1 | EPiSKiNG: sample size? |
| 01:34 | Kiba | so, what happens to your magainze, fabianhjr |
| 01:35 | fabianhjr | Not much, that really happened. After we parted blogs poped up and there was no writing taking place. So now I am back to coding, graphics, and security. |
| 01:35 | Kiba | don't you have this thing called the bitcoin times when I briefly help run it |
| 01:35 | Kiba | so you gave up |
| 01:35 | fabianhjr | Kiba: yes, I still have the files if you want them. |
| 01:36 | Kiba | nothing interesting I already extracted, plus I do only public domain |
| 01:36 | fabianhjr | Kiba: I moved to another marketplace. I made my profits in the journalism area. |
| 01:36 | Kiba | where do you make your bitcoin now? |
| 01:36 | fabianhjr | Kiba: yes, I know. Though, I offered because maybe you would want a copy with the other articles. |
| 01:36 | EPiSKiNG | dust1: phoenix -u http://user:[email protected]:8332/;askrate=15 -k poclbm DEVICE=2 VECTORS AGGRESSION=10 -v FASTLOOP BFI_INT |
| 01:37 | fabianhjr | Kiba: doing a Bitcoin class in PHP then moving to do a MyBitcoin alternative, FOSS. |
| 01:37 | dust1 | EPiSKing: I mean what sample size are you basing your conclusion on. |
| 01:37 | Kiba | persistance* |
| 01:37 | fabianhjr | Kiba: you aren't profiting from your Weekly. You still haven't won the fight. :P |
| 01:38 | Kiba | but I got more traffics |
| 01:38 | fabianhjr | Have you surpassed your 1K Bitcoin wish? I remember 3-5 months ago you were bragging about getting your hand to all the bitcoins you could. |
| 01:38 | fabianhjr | :D |
| 01:38 | EPiSKiNG | 1 hr |
| 01:38 | Kiba | fabianhjr: not really |
| 01:39 | dust1 | Episking: probably not signifigant |
| 01:39 | Kiba | but my revenues better now |
| 01:39 | Kiba | .11 BTC a day |
| 01:39 | fabianhjr | LOL, ok, that was the biggest impression I got from you when I met you. |
| 01:39 | fabianhjr | s/met/meet/ |
| 01:39 | Kiba | fabianhjr: anyway, I have 445 BTC |
| 01:39 | Kiba | and I still do scrap for bitcoin |
| 01:40 | fabianhjr | LOL, at least you didn't follow genjix path of saling himself. |
| 01:42 | Kiba | apperantly, I made a profit of 320% at witcoin |
| 01:43 | fabianhjr | Kiba: congratz! You deserve it for your journalism! |
| 01:44 | hello_ | Hey guys, I have a quick question. |
| 01:44 | programe | which year it will be 1 block = 25 btc ? right now its 1 block = 50 btc.... when it will happen to be 1 block = 25 btc? |
| 01:44 | B0g4r7 | At block 210000. |
| 01:44 | shazow | programe: in 2 years i believe |
| 01:44 | programe | shazow: 2014 ? |
| 01:45 | hello_ | I made 5 successive payments of .2 btn to a gambling website about 40 minutes ago but they are all still unconfirmed :( |
| 01:45 | hello_ | Does anyone know why? |
| 01:45 | shazow | programe: i think so (don't quite one m on that) |
| 01:45 | hello_ | All my other transactions are getting confirmations. |
| 01:45 | shazow | programe: 2013 i think |
| 01:45 | programe | shazow: and when that happens it will be required to have the double processing power to earn 50 btc in the same amount of time that we do now? |
| 01:45 | B0g4r7 | Maybe you're unlucky and the block producers decided not to include your transactions. |
| 01:45 | B0g4r7 | Wait more. |
| 01:46 | B0g4r7 | Or include a tx fee. |
| 01:46 | shazow | programe: no, since the rate is scaled by the processing power, if everyone doubles it then it will remain the same |
| 01:46 | B0g4r7 | Roughly scaled. |
| 01:46 | shazow | programe: you'll require double relative to everyone else's staying the same |
| 01:46 | hello_ | B0g4r7, how often does that happen? And about how long should I wait? |
| 01:46 | B0g4r7 | A block is generated about every 10 minutes. |
| 01:46 | programe | shazow: so basically if my 6990 card now does 50btc each 6 days, how much it will do in year 2014 or so ? |
| 01:47 | programe | 25 btc? |
| 01:47 | B0g4r7 | Every time that happens, the block producer has an opportunity to add your transactions to the chain. |
| 01:47 | shazow | programe: that all depends on how many people are mining, if you assume the same compute power exists in the total mining pool, then you'll get 25 btc in 6 days |
| 01:47 | B0g4r7 | Depends on difficulty. |
| 01:47 | programe | i see |
| 01:48 | hello_ | I've been waiting for 40 minutes, so it seems like I missed out on 4 opportunities to have my transactions added to the chain :( |
| 01:48 | B0g4r7 | Did you include a transaction fee? |
| 01:48 | B0g4r7 | Also make sure you're connected to peers and see the block count advancing. |
| 01:50 | hello_ | 34 connections. Did not include a fee as I didn't see an option for it when I sent payments to PROBIWON through the default Bitcoin client. |
| 01:50 | hello_ | Actually the block count isn't advancing, weird... |
| 01:50 | hello_ | Although I have 35 connections. |
| 01:50 | retinal | ;;bc,blocks |
| 01:50 | gribble | 120227 |
| 01:51 | hello_ | Yep, 120227 |
| 01:51 | retinal | are you on the current one? |
| 01:51 | hello_ | Yep |
| 01:51 | retinal | it's a waiting game, then |
| 01:52 | hello_ | 120228! :P |
| 01:52 | retinal | ;;bc,blocks |
| 01:52 | gribble | 120228 |
| 01:52 | retinal | :o |
| 01:52 | hello_ | :o |
| 01:53 | B0g4r7 | http://blockexplorer.com/b/120228 |
| 01:53 | B0g4r7 | You can see if you see your transaction in the block. |
| 01:53 | B0g4r7 | I see a couple payments of 2 btc. |
| 01:54 | hello_ | Confirmed ;) Wow that took forever. |
| 01:55 | B0g4r7 | Now you get to wait some more, for 6 confirmations, assuming that's the requirement. |
| 01:56 | hello_ | Just one confirmation :) |
| 01:56 | hello_ | So how come the block count was going up so rapidly today? |
| 01:56 | B0g4r7 | 1 confirmation per block. |
| 01:56 | hello_ | And now it's slower. |
| 01:56 | B0g4r7 | Maybe someone switched off some miners. |
| 01:56 | hello_ | Please tell them to turn it back on <3 |
| 01:57 | B0g4r7 | Or if you just started your client and it was behind it had to catch up. |
| 01:57 | hello_ | I think IBM should get in on this mining. |
| 01:57 | hello_ | Get those blocks up faster. |
| 01:57 | B0g4r7 | The network will readjust no matter how muchy compute power is brought to bear. |
| 01:57 | B0g4r7 | To achieve a constant rate of 1 block per 10 minutes (or so) |
| 01:57 | hello_ | So the number of blocks always increases at the same rate? |
| 01:57 | hello_ | Ah, I see. |
| 01:57 | B0g4r7 | However... |
| 01:57 | retinal | but ... then the difficulty will adjust accordingly to average one block every ten minu... what B0g4r7 said |
| 01:58 | B0g4r7 | Difficulty readjustent only occurs once per 2016 blocks. |
| 01:58 | B0g4r7 | So you could gain a temporary boost. |
| 01:58 | hello_ | Yeah. |
| 01:59 | B0g4r7 | If someone wanted to hose the network, they could bring in massive power, wait for the readjustment, and then drop off. |
| 01:59 | B0g4r7 | Drop the block rate to one per 120 minutes or something. |
| 02:00 | B0g4r7 | Then it would be forever until the next readjustment. |
| 02:00 | B0g4r7 | Then they could pull the same thing again. |
| 02:00 | B0g4r7 | Even worse, bring in massive power, but encode no transactions in any blocks solved. |
| 02:00 | hello_ | Jeez. |
| 02:00 | hello_ | What safeproofs are there against that? |
| 02:01 | B0g4r7 | Lots of grassroots power...? |
| 02:01 | programe | YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH |
| 02:01 | programe | I GOT PUSHPOOL WORKING |
| 02:01 | programe | HAHA |
| 02:01 | programe | IT TAKED ME 4 DAYS |
| 02:01 | programe | full working days |
| 02:01 | B0g4r7 | I don't know what that is, but right on. |
| 02:01 | hello_ | Pushpool? |
| 02:02 | programe | https://github.com/jgarzik/pushpool |
| 02:02 | programe | yeah its a polling software |
| 02:02 | programe | to create pools |
| 02:02 | programe | polls |
| 02:03 | programe | mining pools |
| 02:03 | B0g4r7 | Push notification of a new block? |
| 02:03 | programe | yes, and share earnings between miners etc |
| 02:40 | programe | jgarzik |
| 02:41 | Kiba | I argued with a bitcoin user on twitter who argued that the exchanges are already decentralized |
| 02:41 | jrabbit | lol. |
| 02:42 | Kiba | mtgox got a big fat bank account painted on it |
| 02:42 | Kiba | tell me that's not centralized |
| 02:42 | Kiba | it's a big fat choke point |
| 02:43 | programe | jgarzik: pushpool isnt registering the shares for some reason, do you have idea why? i need to wait until the miners solve one whole block for anything to be registered? |
| 02:53 | programe | weird |
| 02:53 | Kiba | jgarzik: so, will pastecoin get back? |
| 02:55 | programe | jgarzik isnt answering :/ |
| 02:56 | programe | weird |
| 02:56 | programe | when he will be back |
| 02:56 | ersi | lol |
| 02:56 | programe | weird |
| 02:56 | programe | i didnt know |
| 02:57 | jgarzik | learn some IRC etiquette, people |
| 02:57 | programe | sorry |
| 02:57 | programe | jgarzik: can you help me to answer some questions regarding pushpool? |
| 02:58 | jgarzik | as long as it's not fscking beep beep beep with each message. damn. |
| 02:58 | jgarzik | highlight I can deal with. |
| 02:58 | ersi | programe: How about taking a hint |
| 02:58 | programe | jgarzik: one thing to note is that blkmond crashes every 10 min or so |
| 02:59 | programe | jgarzik: probably because my bitcoin server client is newer than the protocol it supports? |
| 03:00 | programe | jgarzik: minerd works okay with the pushpool setup i have made using json-http interface however CPU :: Ufasoft's SSE2 miner doesnt work ? |
| 03:00 | programe | jgarzik: i see minerd to hash and show MHash/s etc however i dont see any shares beign recordered on the db |
| 03:00 | programe | jgarzik: those are all the questions :) |
| 03:01 | ersi | (??????) |
| 03:03 | programe | jgarzik ? |
| 03:03 | ersi | I hope he did put you on ignore, 'cause you sure are annoying |
| 03:04 | programe | i tought this channel is to discuss dev stuff |
| 03:04 | programe | im joining his project to solve bugs |
| 03:04 | programe | and review the code |
| 03:04 | programe | and implement new features |
| 03:04 | programe | and he is not going to help me to join |
| 03:04 | programe | ? |
| 03:04 | ersi | then go and review the code |
| 03:04 | programe | i tought open source developers were more open |
| 03:04 | programe | and friendly |
| 03:04 | davex__ | hmm... wonder how phoenix miner could possibly run the gpu cooler but get better mh/s than other miners |
| 03:05 | jgarzik | open source means you are free to read the code and figure out problems youself. |
| 03:05 | ersi | Well, you can't just expect to get support just cause something is open. |
| 03:05 | jgarzik | Free support is ----> that way |
| 03:05 | programe | jgarzik: i can pay |
| 03:05 | programe | jgarzik: if thats what you want |
| 03:06 | ersi | Oh man, exactly what I'd wish for when on vacation! Work! :) |
| 03:06 | jgarzik | yeah really |
| 03:06 | programe | however my idea was to join and help on the project and work togheter in team |
| 03:06 | programe | i just have those questions and nothing more |
| 03:07 | jgarzik | might have to cut vacation short to deal with daughter's croup, even :/ We'll see in the morning. |
| 03:07 | nanotube | programe: it seems jg has other things on his mind atm... so just save your inquiries for a bit later. |
| 03:07 | programe | okay |
| 03:07 | ersi | jgarzik: Croup? :o |
| 03:07 | programe | no problem |
| 03:07 | programe | ill research the code myself |
| 03:08 | programe | however im a bit dissapointed |
| 03:08 | ersi | jgarzik: Ouch, that does not seem nice. Hope she'll get better man |
| 03:08 | nanotube | jgarzik: haha i was going to ask if your daughter is a horse... then used the dict to figure out it has alternate meaning :) |
| 03:08 | nanotube | best wishes on your daughter's health. |
| 03:08 | programe | jgarzik: best whishes |
| 03:09 | programe | jgarzik: hopefully we can work togheter in a future |
| 03:09 | programe | meanwhile ill have to review the code and anser the questions myself :P |
| 03:09 | programe | *answer |
| 03:09 | Androgynous | hey... |
| 03:09 | Androgynous | can anyone here maybe possibly help me with my bitcoin.conf for namecoin? |
| 03:10 | Androgynous | i'm getting an error saying that i need to set my rpcpassword |
| 03:10 | Androgynous | but i made the file |
| 03:10 | programe | whats namecoin |
| 03:10 | programe | i see distributed name system.. |
| 03:10 | Androgynous | chain seperate from bitcoin |
| 03:11 | Androgynous | yeah, it involved domains and names |
| 03:11 | Androgynous | but to run namecoind |
| 03:11 | Androgynous | i need a bitcoin.conf |
| 03:11 | programe | Diablo-D3: does diablo miner supports http-json requests? |
| 03:11 | Androgynous | C:UsersUserAppDataRoamingNamecoin |
| 03:11 | Androgynous | i have it saves there |
| 03:12 | Androgynous | where it tells me to save it |
| 03:12 | Androgynous | as owner-readable-only |
| 03:13 | Androgynous | perhaps i'm going about setting it as "owner-readable-only" |
| 03:14 | Androgynous | wrong |
| 03:14 | Androgynous | ping me if anyone thinks they can help |
| 04:02 | bk128 | anyone know the name of the site that shows a moving chart of all the transactions by size? |
| 04:18 | midnightmagic | bitcoin watch? |
| 04:19 | midnightmagic | nope.. |
| 04:20 | Diablo-D3 | [01:11:45] <programe> Diablo-D3: does diablo miner supports http-json requests? |
| 04:20 | Diablo-D3 | how else would it work? |
| 04:25 | luke-jr | does anyone know DataSurfer? is he on IRC? |
| 04:25 | luke-jr | Diablo-D3: all the other pools have or are moving to push-based mining |
| 04:28 | Diablo-D3 | luke-jr: yes, which is kind of nuts when they're all going to have to convert to mine. |
| 04:53 | chmod755 | http://random.witcoin.com/p/1302/OperationTop10 |
| 05:31 | genjix | tcatm: britcoin has been up and functioning but disappeared from bitcoinwatch since yesterday |
| 05:32 | genjix | appears on bitcoincharts though |
| 05:45 | midnightmagic | bitcoinmonitor.com is the one.. |
| 05:46 | genjix | bitcoinmonitor isnt for currencies |
| 05:52 | ersi | Holy fuck, people trading 1 BTC for 1.5 USD o_o |
| 05:56 | midnightmagic | ;;bc,stats |
| 05:56 | gribble | Current Blocks: 120263 | Current Difficulty: 92347.59095209 | Next Difficulty At Block: 120959 | Next Difficulty In: 696 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 1 hour, 3 minutes, and 12 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 105916.19630086 |
| 05:56 | midnightmagic | bk128 was asking for moving chart of transactions by size. |
| 05:57 | gribble | (105,916.19630086 - 92,347.59095209) / 92,347.59095209 = 0.146929716 |
| 05:57 | midnightmagic | ;;calc (105916.19630086-92347.59095209)/92347.59095209 |
| 05:57 | cosurgi | ArtForz: what is the endianness of time in "DATA : 000002800000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000080000000_nonce__~target~==time==_merkle_" ? |
| 05:57 | midnightmagic | 14.7% increase. |
| 05:58 | midnightmagic | that's.. a bit high. |
| 05:58 | cosurgi | ArtForz: I am looking at 'time' from different blocks and only the high bits are changing, not low bits. |
| 05:59 | lfm | cosurgi: you mean like the "data" in getwork? |
| 06:01 | lfm | cosurgi: the "data" in getwork is 32 bit big endian |
| 06:02 | lfm | they byteswap it as an optimization for the sha256 routine |
| 06:02 | Compgenius | hey guys, how would I clear my transaction list in bitcoin? |
| 06:03 | cosurgi | lfm: yep, I just reversed the bytes, and I got a correct time. |
| 06:03 | Compgenius | atm my bitcoin "all transactions" is flooded with my bitcoin winnings and sendings |
| 06:04 | CFSworks | Compgenius: Create a new wallet, send all your BTC there, delete the old one? |
| 06:04 | lfm | Compgenius: you cant |
| 06:04 | ersi | Modify the client :) |
| 06:05 | CFSworks | Moving all your Bitcoins into a new wallet would work... You lose your old addresses though. :( |
| 06:05 | Compgenius | not necessarily a good idea to lose all my address... |
| 06:06 | Compgenius | I'll just leave them for now |
| 06:06 | ersi | So keep your old wallet around |
| 06:07 | Compgenius | just to show you... http://cg999.ath.cx/imgs/lolcoin.png damn thats going to be annoying... |
| 06:08 | retinal | pshaw, that's not even 100 transactions |
| 06:09 | CFSworks | I have 113 and it's not so bad as long as I don't stare at the scrollbar. |
| 06:09 | ersi | That's why one usually has a 'internal balance' on sites and then either deposit or withdraw |
| 06:09 | CFSworks | It's like fear of heights: Don't look at how bad it is and you won't get sick to your stomach. |
| 06:10 | Compgenius | counted em, 63. |
| 06:10 | CFSworks | That's odd. The lower-right corner says 67. |
| 06:10 | Compgenius | meh, might have skipped a few numbers |
| 06:11 | CFSworks | With so many similar transactions I'd get lose count too. |
| 06:11 | Compgenius | sometimes i accidently skip from say 45 to 50 >_> |
| 06:11 | Compgenius | btw CFSworks, those transactions were all done within the space of a day |
| 06:12 | CFSworks | Wow. Are all of them small trades too? |
| 06:12 | Compgenius | yeah |
| 06:12 | Compgenius | 0.01-0.02 |
| 06:13 | Compgenius | there's only one transaction that wasn't on the 25th |
| 06:13 | CFSworks | I can see what you mean. That would give me a headache. |
| 06:13 | ersi | sounds like a lottery or some other small-change game |
| 06:13 | Compgenius | and that was on the 14th, when i got my 0.05 from the faucet |
| 06:13 | Compgenius | CFSworks, bitcoin darts |
| 06:13 | Compgenius | really needs some sort-of on site wallet |
| 06:13 | Compgenius | >_> |
| 06:13 | CFSworks | Hmm... |
| 06:13 | ersi | I agree :) |
| 06:13 | Compgenius | new address to send to every time you bet |
| 06:14 | CFSworks | Hmm... |
| 06:14 | ersi | Seems like you've done +- 0 :) |
| 06:14 | Compgenius | ersi, it's more or less -0.10 |
| 06:15 | CFSworks | What Bitcoin needs is a "hide old transactions" option that hides anything older than X transactions. |
| 06:15 | Compgenius | since i got 0.10 off of a friend to bring it to 0.15 |
| 06:17 | CFSworks | To any core Bitcoin developers online right now: What do you think about a "Show only last [ ] transactions in the main window." textbox to be added to the GUI preferences? |
| 06:18 | Compgenius | CFSworks, i'm surprised there's not a remove transaction option |
| 06:18 | Compgenius | to get rid of a transaction, or atleast a deleted transaction tab |
| 06:18 | Compgenius | >_> |
| 06:19 | CFSworks | "Removing" a transaction isn't in the design of Bitcoin, since it's stored permanently in the block chain. |
| 06:19 | CFSworks | "Hide" would be a little less misleading. |
| 06:21 | retinal | request: filter by address |
| 06:22 | retinal | actually, scratch that; it'd be impractical after a couple months of intense usage |
| 06:22 | retinal | (??????) |
| 06:22 | CFSworks | Compgenius, did you develop the darts game? |
| 06:28 | Compgenius | CFSworks, nope |
| 06:29 | Compgenius | retinal, it really would be useless, since a lot of sites generate a random address for every transaction you make to them |
| 06:30 | ersi | filter by label, then. |
| 06:33 | Compgenius | actually yeah.. that makes more sense ersi |
| 06:40 | genjix | thing i dont get is why so many boost::asio examples use threads when they suck and a reactor pattern means you don't have to use them. |
| 06:52 | doublec | probably to take advantage of multiple cores |
| 07:20 | RenaKunisaki | https://verydemotivational.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/58349704-6eab-4b4f-bf4e-358a7235b75c.jpg there's a Bitcoin joke in here somewhere... |
| 07:31 | sipa | ;;bc,blocks |
| 07:31 | gribble | 120278 |
| 07:31 | gribble | 0.729372504234 |
| 07:31 | sipa | ;;bc,prob 1200000 5d |
| 07:41 | gribble | Error: float division |
| 07:41 | RenaKunisaki | ;;bc,gen 0 |
| 07:41 | lfm | ;;bc,gen 0.001 |
| 07:41 | gribble | The expected generation output, at 0.001 Khps, given current difficulty of 92347.59095209 , is 1.0891766317e-08 BTC per day and 4.53823596541e-10 BTC per hour. |
| 07:59 | CIA-89 | bitcoin: genjix * rcc5ed7a95ba9 intersango/util.php: added ignore status. http://tinyurl.com/6k5feth |
| 08:11 | omglolbbq | guys is there a windows desktop gadget to monitor mtgox? |
| 08:26 | toffoo | omglolbbq: i think so .. but looks like he's trying to sell it for 1BTC: http://www.reddit.com/r/BitMarket/comments/g94bq/bitcoin_widget_for_windows_for_sale_1_bitcoin/ |
| 08:33 | xelister | hi, when starting new bitcoin node |
| 08:33 | xelister | how to copy chain files, which ones exactly are needed to not redownload |
| 08:42 | omglolbbq | tnx toffoo |
| 08:43 | eps | ;;bc,stats |
| 08:43 | gribble | Current Blocks: 120288 | Current Difficulty: 92347.59095209 | Next Difficulty At Block: 120959 | Next Difficulty In: 671 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 21 hours, 11 minutes, and 40 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 106298.92485892 |
| 08:43 | eps | woah quite a jump there |
| 08:44 | eps | it seems like the value rallys are pushing up the difficulty, which seems backwards to me |
| 08:48 | Diablo-D3 | eps: people are mining harder |
| 08:48 | Diablo-D3 | to get the money |
| 08:49 | eps | yeah, i guess it makes sense |
| 08:50 | eps | i think what bitcoin really needs to take off though is some stability |
| 08:51 | eps | even if it is stable at low dollar price |
| 08:51 | eps | cos at least then people can plan more effectively |
| 09:05 | manveru | eps: it won't get stable if people aren't using it |
| 09:06 | manveru | mtgox finally seems to be picking up in volume |
| 09:07 | manveru | but it's still just a few people compared to common exchanges... |
| 09:10 | Compgenius | eps, probably due to all the pools |
| 09:46 | xelister | eps: yea |
| 09:46 | xelister | fuck 110k diff |
| 09:47 | eps | manveru: if it is never stable then it is unlikely to take off in a big way |
| 09:47 | eps | and by stable i don't mean static |
| 09:48 | eps | but an increase or drop of more than 20% (compared to the dollar or whatever) within a few days will make bitcoins difficult to use for legitimate business |
| 10:08 | TD | eps: yes indeed but there's not much anyone can do about that except get more real traders and merchants into the economy |
| 10:08 | TD | right now there's lots of speculation and the economy is very small, so the price is driven heavily by press attention |
| 10:10 | sipa | ;;bc,calc 92000 1 |
| 10:10 | gribble | Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1) |
| 10:10 | gribble | The average time to generate a block at 92000 Khps, given the supplied difficulty of 1, is 46 seconds |
| 10:10 | sipa | ;;bc,calcd 92000 1 |
| 10:10 | eps | yeah, it is a tricky problem to solve |
| 10:13 | anarchyx | eps: more volatility will drive in more speculators and increase the amount of traders, market will regulate itself |
| 10:17 | TD | hmm, faucet is getting low |
| 10:24 | mele | shares are distributed when a block is solved in a pool? |
| 10:24 | BlueMatt | mele: depends on the pool, but yes |
| 10:25 | mele | BlueMat: ok |
| 10:25 | sipa | mele: you can use [Tab] to complete the nickname of someobe |
| 10:25 | sipa | someone |
| 10:38 | BurtyB | just plugged another 5870 in - my UPS isn't too happy lol |
| 11:07 | xelister | BurtyB: does you UPS actually hold computer with even one 5980 |
| 11:07 | xelister | 5870 |
| 12:14 | luke-jr | hmm, another bubble? |
| 12:16 | ArtForz | looks more like a single 2kbtc buy |
| 12:16 | Kiba | Tyler Cowen is very critical of bitcoin |
| 12:16 | ArtForz | err, 4kbtc |
| 12:16 | Kiba | hopefully we will succeed and make him look like a fool |
| 12:16 | ArtForz | Tyler who? |
| 12:17 | Kiba | sweet revenge |
| 12:17 | Kiba | dude at Marginal Revolution |
| 12:17 | ArtForz | still not ringing a bell.. *crawls back under rock* |
| 12:19 | CIA-89 | bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r0b4cd41b6a5f gentoo/net-p2p/pushpool/ (Manifest pushpool-0.3.ebuild): net-p2p/pushpool-0.3: latest git eclass is picky http://tinyurl.com/3vlq8zv |
| 12:21 | BurtyB | xelister yeah, it was doing 2xserver (one with 2x5870) a desktop/2xrouter/switch |
| 12:29 | CIA-89 | bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r051b33f5c79d gentoo/net-p2p/pushpool/ (Manifest pushpool-0.3.ebuild): net-p2p/pushpool-0.3: apparently I must not have tested :/ http://tinyurl.com/656hpon |
| 12:29 | CIA-89 | bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * r844d965662df gentoo/net-p2p/pushpool/ (Manifest pushpool-0.3.ebuild pushpool-9999.ebuild): net-p2p/pushpool: missing DEPEND: dev-libs/libmemcached http://tinyurl.com/6zge35c |
| 12:45 | BlueMatt | sipa: cpu required? |
| 12:45 | sipa | i'll benchmark it soon, but i don't expect it to be much more expensive (per key tried) than verification |
| 12:46 | BlueMatt | sipa: so it would require x2 cpu time (assuming which key works is specified) to verify a tx? |
| 12:47 | sipa | no, you don't need to verify it anymore |
| 12:47 | BlueMatt | ah, ok cool then |
| 12:47 | sipa | if you recover a key, and its hash matches an address, it is certainly a valid signature |
| 12:47 | BlueMatt | ah, good point that makes sense |
| 12:48 | BlueMatt | is it possible to specify which key out of the options will be the correct one (ie only one key recovery required) |
| 12:49 | BlueMatt | I havent really been paying attention |
| 12:49 | sipa | yes |
| 12:49 | sipa | there are at most 4 possible keys |
| 12:49 | sipa | and you can easily specify which one to try |
| 12:50 | BlueMatt | Id assume we dont want to try any keys other than the one specified |
| 12:50 | sipa | exactly |
| 12:50 | BlueMatt | there would be no use |
| 12:51 | sipa | so i will propose to use a bitcoin-specific 65-byte signature encoding, which contains exactly the same information as the 72-byte signature + 65-byte pubkey now |
| 12:52 | BlueMatt | sipa: cool, Im assuming we dont have to kill backward compatibility if we use reserved opcodes? |
| 12:53 | BlueMatt | ie old nodes just reject all txes |
| 12:54 | sipa | http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=6430.msg94738#msg94738 |
| 12:54 | sipa | that proposal means we switch (at some point in the past) to new scriptPubKeys which require new scriptSigs |
| 12:54 | sipa | *future |
| 12:56 | sipa | i believe it would be possible (using yet another opcode...) to use a "compact signature" for an old scriptPubKey as well |
| 12:57 | BlueMatt | is the destination address specified not a hash of the current scriptPubKey... |
| 12:58 | sipa | no |
| 12:58 | sipa | an address is a hash of a pubkey |
| 12:58 | BlueMatt | sorry, yes of course |
| 12:58 | sipa | the scriptPubKey (which typically contains a pubkey or an address) is the thing in a txout which determines who is allowed to spend |
| 12:59 | sipa | and scriptSig (which typically contains a signature and sometimes a pubkey) is the thing in a txin which proves you had the right to spend |
| 13:00 | BlueMatt | if we change the format of scriptPubKeys, Im assuming we sign with old format to spend old coins and require new format for spends thereafter? |
| 13:00 | sipa | there are two ways, i believe |
| 13:01 | sipa | either add a new opcode to be used in scriptPubKey, which only requires a sig + 2-bit code in scriptSig - so old coins will be signed using the old way, and new coins with the new way |
| 13:02 | sipa | or add a compatibility opcode to be used in scriptSig, which takes a scriptSig + 2-bit code, and converts it into a scriptSig + pubkey, to be fed to an old scriptPubKey |
| 13:05 | BlueMatt | Either way old nodes will flat out reject all new signs |
| 13:05 | BlueMatt | I prefer #1 as IMHO its nicer |
| 13:08 | BlueMatt | though the results would effectively be the same either way |
| 13:09 | sipa | #1 allows simpler scriptPubKeys as well, but the effect is very small |
| 13:09 | sipa | #2 allows small sigs also for old coins |
| 13:10 | jgarzik | Has bitcoin ever introduced a new feature that made it impossible for older clients to verify a block? |
| 13:10 | BlueMatt | I dont see sigs for old coins to be really any advantage |
| 13:10 | jgarzik | sendmany, for example, could be verified by ancient clients, if a sendmany TX makes it into a block. |
| 13:11 | BlueMatt | IMHO the feature should be added, but the clients shouldnt sign that way by default until it is strictly necessary due to network load |
| 13:11 | BlueMatt | we cant never add new opcodes just because it breaks compatibility |
| 13:11 | BlueMatt | though we shouldnt use them by default |
| 13:12 | ISA_ | Hello |
| 13:14 | BlueMatt | ISA_: hi |
| 13:16 | sipa | for a 2-txin-2-txout transaction, it would allow a more than 33% reduction in tx size |
| 13:16 | devrandom | hi BlueMatt |
| 13:16 | sipa | 438 -> 290 bytes |
| 13:16 | BlueMatt | hi |
| 13:17 | sipa | somehow that seems worth it to me, but obviously not immediately |
| 13:17 | BlueMatt | sipa: I agree, but IMHO it shouldnt be turned on by default for quite a while |
| 13:17 | sipa | something like "if (nBestheight > 200000) fUseCompactSigs=true;" :) |
| 13:18 | BlueMatt | sipa: I disagree |
| 13:18 | devrandom | so nightlies are built in a VM... I wonder if there's a solution to that |
| 13:18 | prax_ | anyone got a suggestion for domain name registrar? |
| 13:18 | BlueMatt | It should be off until absolutely required |
| 13:19 | devrandom | what kind of VM are you using? |
| 13:19 | BlueMatt | devrandom: I dont know, depends on the virtualization method |
| 13:19 | BlueMatt | devrandom: sadly, the proc its on doesnt support hardward virt so its a vmware server |
| 13:19 | BlueMatt | kvm wont run there |
| 13:19 | BlueMatt | virtualbox might but vmware definitely wont |
| 13:20 | devrandom | I wonder if non-kvm qemu would run and if it would be too slow... |
| 13:20 | BlueMatt | does qemu do soft virt? |
| 13:21 | BlueMatt | looks light it might |
| 13:21 | devrandom | yeah |
| 13:21 | BlueMatt | still dont know if it will boot inside of vmware, but I suppose its worth a shot |
| 13:24 | devrandom | http://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20589&start=15 |
| 13:24 | devrandom | someone got qemu running under vbox |
| 13:24 | BlueMatt | worth a shot then |
| 13:25 | BurtyB | prax_ depending on tld I do registrations |
| 13:25 | BlueMatt | probably still needlessly slow... |
| 13:25 | BlueMatt | IMHO its not really worth signing nightlies |
| 13:26 | prax_ | hmm well why should I use you? (probably just a .com for now though) |
| 13:26 | BlueMatt | devrandom: signing is important for distributions, but for nightlies...well, its not that important really |
| 13:27 | devrandom | it would simplify your life if you didn't have to do the releases differently |
| 13:27 | BurtyB | prax_ icann accredited registrar (not a reseller) for one :) |
| 13:28 | BlueMatt | devrandom: true, but Ive already got the nigtlies set up (really not hard) and building releases isnt bad with your scripts |
| 13:28 | devrandom | ok |
| 13:28 | prax_ | was reading some stuff about how godaddy is a pain to transfer |
| 13:28 | prax_ | you got info on a website? |
| 13:28 | prax_ | I'm looking for private registration too |
| 13:28 | BlueMatt | devrandom: In any case, I think this kind of trust is important for releases |
| 13:29 | devrandom | BlueMatt - so sounds like the two of us can build releases and that's all we need? gavinandresen? |
| 13:29 | B0g4r7 | godaddy huh. |
| 13:29 | BurtyB | prax_ http://www.othellonames.net/ no restrictions (other than the tld operators) on transfering out you can just request an EPP via the control panel |
| 13:29 | BlueMatt | devrandom: it would be nice to get as many as possible |
| 13:29 | gavinandresen | Y'all going to take over building releases? Wahoo! |
| 13:29 | BlueMatt | devrandom: jgarzik, gavinandresen etc |
| 13:29 | B0g4r7 | I've used them for my domains for many yrs now. |
| 13:29 | BlueMatt | gavinandresen: I would, but Id rather let people trust you/jgarzik |
| 13:29 | B0g4r7 | Never had any real problems, other than a kind of "spammy feel" from them. |
| 13:30 | devrandom | I think gavin builds on ec2? |
| 13:30 | BlueMatt | gavinandresen: mac building probably not possible though (unless you know of a xcompiler from linux-> mac) |
| 13:30 | BlueMatt | devrandom: yes he does |
| 13:30 | gavinandresen | yup. |
| 13:31 | devrandom | I don't yet have a solution for that, although I can envision using the API |
| 13:31 | prax_ | BurtyB I'll check it out and maybe talk to you later, still confused what I am really doing too =) |
| 13:32 | BlueMatt | devrandom: I suppose we can go build 0.3.21 now and get some sigs out if gavin wants to distribute that instead |
| 13:32 | BlueMatt | get the system started now |
| 13:32 | BlueMatt | its a good opportunity |
| 13:32 | BurtyB | prax_ np, let me know if you have any Qs |
| 13:32 | gavinandresen | How about for the 0.4 release we plan on having the builds done using gitian? I can get a cheap linux netbook to run VMs to build... |
| 13:32 | BlueMatt | gavinandresen: its up to you |
| 13:32 | BlueMatt | then the next version is 0.4? |
| 13:33 | gavinandresen | I'd like the next version to be 0.4 with jgarzik's encrypt-private-keys incorporated |
| 13:33 | BlueMatt | and autotools, Im assuming? |
| 13:33 | gavinandresen | (next version after stamping 0.3.21 final today or tomorrow) |
| 13:33 | CrazyThinker | Is the From and Message data encrypted? |
| 13:33 | gavinandresen | Yeah, and autotools. And some source re-org, I think |
| 13:33 | BlueMatt | nice |
| 13:33 | jgarzik | jaromil's autotools work is quickly overtaking my branch, as the preferred autotools junk station |
| 13:34 | jgarzik | (with my blessing) |
| 13:34 | BlueMatt | would like to see bitcoin: uris as well |
| 13:34 | jgarzik | I like it when people do my work for me :) |
| 13:34 | BlueMatt | and his should support xcompile soon as well :) |
| 13:34 | sipa | CrazyThinker: bitcoin does not use any encryption at all |
| 13:34 | CrazyThinker | sipa, so the messages are visible to everyone on the network? |
| 13:34 | sipa | all transactions are public, as everyone must be able to verify their integrity |
| 13:34 | devrandom | we can always re-release the 0.3.21 binary if we are impatient |
| 13:35 | devrandom | hm... there's this: http://www.phenona.com/blog/using-lxc-linux-containers-in-amazon-ec2/ |
| 13:35 | sipa | CrazyThinker: that does however not mean that everyone knows which addresses belong to who |
| 13:35 | BlueMatt | devrandom: We can release it of course, and probably should |
| 13:35 | gavinandresen | What exactly does the gitian build/verify? Just the executables, yes? |
| 13:35 | CrazyThinker | yeah, but are those visible to everyone? |
| 13:35 | sipa | jgarzik: seen my comment in your encrypt-private-keys thread? |
| 13:35 | sipa | some time ago already |
| 13:35 | BlueMatt | devrandom: that way we can get it out there and tested |
| 13:35 | BlueMatt | devrandom: until it actually gets used |
| 13:36 | jgarzik | sipa: I was hoping someone would answer your question :) http://www.bitcoin.org/smf/index.php?topic=4983.msg85445#msg85445 |
| 13:36 | jgarzik | sipa: the main remaining issue seems to be IV |
| 13:36 | devrandom | gavinandresen - it can have arbitrary output. Right now I think I copy the source to the output and include that in the signature. |
| 13:37 | noagendamarket | http://twitter.com/#!/MemoryDealers is now accepting bitcoins |
| 13:37 | sipa | CrazyThinker: there is no identity info in the bitcoin network |
| 13:37 | devrandom | BlueMatt - ok |
| 13:38 | jgarzik | anyway... |
| 13:38 | sipa | CrazyThinker: and bitcoin continuously creates new addresses to send change transactions to, in order to hide which is change and which is payment |
| 13:38 | jaromil | jgarzik: thanks. i needed autotools myself. BTW i need rebase that branch and provide some documentation for mingw32 compiling |
| 13:38 | CrazyThinker | sipa but if I mention the email address and other details in the message sent using Bitcoin client, can people read this information? |
| 13:38 | sipa | there is no message |
| 13:38 | TD | good day everyone |
| 13:39 | BlueMatt | TD: good day |
| 13:39 | gavinandresen | Wow, the gang's all here.... |
| 13:39 | TD | gavinandresen: could you maybe include the "if (!fTestNet)" conditions on the tx replacement and other disabled features before 0.3.21? |
| 13:39 | TD | so everything that is currently disabled for safety can be played with on the testnet .... |
| 13:39 | luke-jr | gavinandresen: jgarzik just left. he isn't part of the gang? :P |
| 13:39 | CrazyThinker | sipa, In the bitcoin client it shows message and From text boxes |
| 13:39 | sipa | CrazyThinker: that's only for the outdated send-to-IP feature |
| 13:39 | gavinandresen | TD: I'd rather not-- I want to get 0.3.21 out the door |
| 13:39 | sipa | CrazyThinker: the bitcoin network doesn't use them |
| 13:39 | TD | fair enough |
| 13:40 | CrazyThinker | sipa, okay |
| 13:40 | B0g4r7 | TD: Verying behavior based on whether or not "test mode" is being used sounds like a bad idea to me. |
| 13:40 | gavinandresen | TD: It'll be top of the list for 0.4 (assuming somebody submits a PULL or I remember) |
| 13:40 | devrandom | jgarzik - are you interested in joining the gitian builders? |
| 13:40 | TD | great. |
| 13:40 | B0g4r7 | varying |
| 13:40 | luke-jr | & |
| 13:40 | gavinandresen | jgarzik just left |
| 13:40 | BlueMatt | devrandom: hes off |
| 13:40 | sipa | TD: by the way, i have an openssl-based ecdsa key recovery working |
| 13:41 | TD | B0g4r7: it's already done. they are separate networks |
| 13:41 | TD | sipa: nice! |
| 13:41 | devrandom | ok |
| 13:41 | B0g4r7 | mmm...well...yes. |
| 13:41 | gavinandresen | sipa: but... why? |
| 13:41 | gavinandresen | (bottleneck is already CPU, why make it worse?) |
| 13:41 | gavinandresen | ("because I can" is a valid response, by the way) |
| 13:41 | sipa | gavinandresen: i haven't benchmarked it, but key recovery shouldn't be slower than verification, actually |
| 13:42 | BlueMatt | gavinandresen: probably no worse for cpu |
| 13:42 | sipa | obviously, i still need to do benchmarks |
| 13:42 | gavinandresen | But you have to recover the CPU AND THEN STILL check the signature, right? |
| 13:42 | sipa | no |
| 13:42 | gavinandresen | (err, recover the key) |
| 13:42 | BlueMatt | gavinandresen: theoretically you dont have to check the sig |
| 13:42 | sipa | if you recover a key, and that key's hash matches your address, you're done |
| 13:42 | sipa | the algorithm will only produce keys for which that sig is a valid sig |
| 13:43 | TD | bottleneck is CPU today. in future it might move to become the RAM required to store the block chain (assuming that big miners have many cores) |
| 13:43 | TD | so shrinking the block chain is still useful. but the change isn't backwards compatible. |
| 13:44 | TD | if it's included today, perhaps in a year or two years if miners start complaining that the storage overheads are getting too heavy, it could be activated |
| 13:44 | TD | as by that point hopefully everyone is upgraded |
| 13:44 | TD | ie - kept around in our back pocket in case it's needed |
| 13:44 | sipa | for a typical 2-txin-to-2-txout transaction, the size (of the whole tx) would go from 438 to 290 bytes |
| 13:44 | BlueMatt | TD: that is what I was saying |
| 13:44 | TD | ah, sorry for duplicating :) i wasn't watching irc before |
| 13:44 | BlueMatt | keep it off until strictly necessary |
| 13:45 | BlueMatt | TD: never a problem, I do that all the time |
| 13:45 | sipa | it does put stronger constraints on alternative implementations |
| 13:45 | luke-jr | ;;later tell jgarzik is there a reason pushpool uses sbin instead of bin? |
| 13:45 | gribble | The operation succeeded. |
| 13:45 | TD | sipa: how so? |
| 13:45 | sipa | TD: as they would also need to implement the additional opcodes, obviousl |
| 13:46 | TD | afaik the only alternative implementation today that tries to verify txns is bitdollar and it doesn't even run scripts |
| 13:46 | BlueMatt | just more stuff to implement |
| 13:46 | BlueMatt | assuming you want to verify txes yourself |
| 13:46 | TD | right, but as no such implementation exists today, it's not a big deal to give them even more work :-) |
| 13:46 | BlueMatt | true |
| 13:46 | gavinandresen | sipa: ok. carry on then. But a factor of less-than-two storage savings... at the cost of an incompatible addition to Script.cpp ... I'm not enthused. |
| 13:46 | TD | actually i'm wrong ... i'd have to support it too |
| 13:47 | luke-jr | TD: but nothing could stop a rogue miner from using it in blocks early, and forking the chain |
| 13:47 | devrandom | the miner would not get their blocks accepted, wasting gpus |
| 13:47 | sipa | a rogue miner who starts to use it before the official "introduction time", would just be ignored by others |
| 13:47 | TD | as even thin clients need to understand how to extract the relevant addresses/pubkeys from scripts |
| 13:47 | TD | even though they don't run them |
| 13:47 | BlueMatt | luke-jr: could be disabled till block x |
| 13:47 | luke-jr | BlueMatt: that would do it I guess |
| 13:48 | devrandom | I like the enable after block x solution for upgrades... maybe should also have an alert system for "your version is considered obsolete by n peers" |
| 13:48 | luke-jr | devrandom: there is such an alert system already |
| 13:49 | luke-jr | devrandom: except it's monarchial |
| 13:49 | BlueMatt | Kiba: potato chip seems kinda random there, just one? |
| 13:49 | CIA-89 | bitcoin: Luke Dashjr * rdf81e33c4c2f gentoo/net-p2p/pushpool/ (Manifest pushpool-0.3.ebuild pushpool-9999.ebuild): net-p2p/pushpool: oh yeah, I forgot about econf... http://tinyurl.com/42t3axq |
| 13:49 | devrandom | luke-jr - the satoshi alert? |
| 13:49 | luke-jr | yeah |
| 13:49 | Kiba | BlueMatt: naw, vingear and salt chips, my favorite |
| 13:50 | luke-jr | gavinandresen: what would you think of modifying the alert to relay signed-by-other-key messages on the same terms as a free txn? |
| 13:50 | BlueMatt | gavinandresen: can we get you to add a new alert key for yourself...or get satoshi to give you his? |
| 13:50 | devrandom | I'm thinking about something that encourages people to upgrade if their version is obsolete. based on security upgrades or upcoming breaking changes |
| 13:50 | luke-jr | gavinandresen: so, for example, other clients can broadcast alerts only to their client users |
| 13:51 | gavinandresen | luke-jr: interesting idea |
| 13:52 | gavinandresen | BlueMatt: interesting you should mention that, Satoshi sent me the alert key this morning. |
| 13:52 | BlueMatt | gavinandresen: ah, good then |
| 13:52 | Kiba | will satoshi come back, gavinandresen? |
| 13:52 | BlueMatt | Kiba: last I heard, he had "moved on to other projects" |
| 13:53 | BlueMatt | and that bitcoin is "in good hands" |
| 13:53 | Kiba | totally inaccurate rumor methink |
| 13:53 | BlueMatt | Kiba: that is what TD told me satoshi said in an email |
| 13:53 | Kiba | gavinandresen: so...what's official statement |
| 13:53 | gavinandresen | Kiba: I don't know, he says he's moving on to other things, so expect him to fade away even more. |
| 13:53 | eps | is that possible? |
| 13:53 | Kiba | so we will never knows the true identity of the project? |
| 13:53 | Kiba | err |
| 13:53 | noagendamarket | :( |
| 13:53 | Kiba | founder |
| 13:53 | TD | yeah, i asked him that and he gave me the answer BlueMatt said. he's gone for good, but still answers questions from time to time |
| 13:54 | Kiba | so. we will |
| 13:54 | TD | some of them at least .... if they don't involve him doing much work :-) i asked him if he'd be willing to review a wiki page and he ignored that part of my mail, heh |
| 13:54 | Kiba | never know how the true origin of bitcoin..how its inventor come up with a system |
| 13:54 | eps | well the cryptocurrency is not a new idea |
| 13:54 | BlueMatt | Kiba: if it catches on, someone will do the research |
| 13:55 | eps | but the execution of bitcoin is very impressive |
| 13:55 | Kiba | satoshi is a true hero in any case |
| 13:55 | BlueMatt | eps: no, but satoshi was one of the first to come up with the idea of proof of work |
| 13:55 | Kiba | no |
| 13:55 | BlueMatt | he wasnt the first |
| 13:55 | Kiba | he just integrate other people's idea |
| 13:55 | BlueMatt | but the first to implement it very well afaik |
| 13:55 | xxxxxxx | BlueMatt, implementing proof of work is ez as shit |
| 13:55 | eps | i always say execution beats ideas |
| 13:55 | TD | using partial pre-images of zero as a proof of work is from Dr Adam Back |
| 13:56 | eps | i have ideas |
| 13:56 | TD | the block chain is (afaik) a new algorithm |
| 13:56 | BlueMatt | xxxxxxx: never said it was hard, but bitcoin is done VERY well |
| 13:56 | xxxxxxx | u might be confusing i w the block chain |
| 13:56 | eps | but i don't necessarily execute them very well |
| 13:56 | Kiba | satoshi will remain...a legend |
| 13:56 | MacRohard | bootstrapping the currency by allowing everyone to mine coins might be a satoshi inention |
| 13:56 | MacRohard | invention |
| 13:56 | Kiba | his invention is ingenuiously puting together all the ideas |
| 13:56 | DingoRabiit | BlueMatt: Hey man you active? i lost your Repay address, Could you please send me it ina PM? It's JackRabiit. |
| 13:56 | xxxxxxx | BlueMatt, proof of work is like a few lines of code and was implemented multiple times to prevent spam a long time ago |
| 13:57 | Kiba | satoshi might come up with a new project under a different name in a few years |
| 13:57 | gavinandresen | We'll know it's him by all the pszStrings in the code.... |
| 13:57 | eps | heh |
| 13:57 | Kiba | lol |
| 13:57 | BlueMatt | xxxxxxx: but using it in a currency like satoshi and his clear talent in the code... |
| 13:58 | xxxxxxx | BlueMatt, im not saying anyhting about satoshi or bitcoin, just proof o work |
| 13:58 | eps | there is nothing new under the sun |
| 13:58 | BlueMatt | Kiba: I have a feeling satoshi will come back to bitcoin under a different name if it catches on |
| 13:58 | BlueMatt | xxxxxxx: what eps said |
| 13:58 | eps | everything is built on existing ideas |
| 13:58 | TD | he may well end up as a regular user of it |
| 13:59 | BlueMatt | there hasnt been anything big new in comp sci that is big in a long time |
| 13:59 | TD | whether he takes part in the community beyond that is something we'll never know. personally i doubt it. |
| 13:59 | TD | he was working on it for nearly 4 years now. i know from past experience that after 4 years of a project you do want to move on |
| 13:59 | Kiba | we will never figure out |
| 13:59 | Kiba | and even if he told us |
| 13:59 | Kiba | we would never believe him :) |
| 13:59 | BlueMatt | TD: I agree |
| 14:00 | devrandom | Kiba - he has a pubkey, so he can prove his identity if he wants |
| 14:00 | BlueMatt | devrandom: I doubt he would |
| 14:00 | devrandom | right |
| 14:00 | BlueMatt | the mystery is great |
| 14:01 | Blitzboom | im wondering if he will ever sell his coins |
| 14:01 | Kiba | probably won't |
| 14:01 | Kiba | for a long time |
| 14:01 | Blitzboom | or wait until he can purchase whatever he wants with them |
| 14:02 | Kiba | and nobody will be able to know that he's the world's richest man by that point |
| 14:02 | devrandom | were the genesis coins ever spent? I guess I can easily check that in blockexplorer |
| 14:02 | BlueMatt | he wont sell the ones from the first blocks that we know are his |
| 14:02 | BlueMatt | devrandom: no, and I highly doubt satoshi will ever spend those |
| 14:02 | eps | can you choose which bitcoins to spend? |
| 14:02 | BlueMatt | if he still has the keys to them |
| 14:02 | BlueMatt | eps: not in the current client |
| 14:03 | eps | i guess you could put them in different wallets |
| 14:03 | BlueMatt | but satoshi easily could |
| 14:03 | BlueMatt | he knows the software pretty well ;) |
| 14:03 | Kiba | he can launder his money |
| 14:03 | TD | i think we should open bets on which "who is satoshi" conspiracy theory becomes the most popular |
| 14:03 | xelister | gavinandresen: yeah, how could you type all this hungarian notation :< |
| 14:03 | Blitzboom | i hope satoshi hasnt lost his keys :D |
| 14:03 | xelister | TD: I know |
| 14:03 | BlueMatt | TD: Its gavin ;) |
| 14:03 | TD | my bet is on gavin too :-) |
| 14:03 | eps | some say he started writing code at the age of 2 |
| 14:04 | Kiba | lol |
| 14:04 | xelister | information on who is Satoshi (except speculation about gavinandresen) |
| 14:04 | xelister | for 10 BTC |
| 14:04 | xelister | or next higher better =) (that can choose to get it in private) |
| 14:04 | eps | some say he is descended from adam smith |
| 14:04 | TD | haha |
| 14:04 | TD | chuck norris has nothing on satoshi |
| 14:04 | eps | all we know is... his name is satoshi, seriously, that is all we know |
| 14:05 | xelister | more exactly, I found a (fictional) charactere that closelly reassembles Satoshi AND is quite known |
| 14:05 | BlueMatt | some say he is a russian coder who has spent his entire life as an orphan in a code house (apparently they have those in russia) |
| 14:05 | xelister | guys? |
| 14:05 | xelister | *** I found a (fictional) charactere that closelly reassembles Satoshi AND is quite known **** |
| 14:05 | BlueMatt | who? |
| 14:05 | xelister | more then 1:1,000,000 close match |
| 14:06 | gavinandresen | Satoshi did suggest this morning that I (we) should try to de-emphasize the whole "mysterious founder" thing when talking publically about Bitcoin. It plays into the "bitcoin is pirate money" meme. |
| 14:06 | xelister | it will cost to find out, starting price 10 btc =) |
| 14:06 | xelister | gavinandresen: I thought only americafags use that |
| 14:06 | TD | yeah |
| 14:06 | xelister | war on children - think about the pirates |
| 14:06 | xelister | no wait, or viceversa |
| 14:06 | BlueMatt | gavinandresen: true, for common people its probably best not to, but it will catch on eventually (if bitcoin catches on) |
| 14:06 | TD | between the anonymous founder and the underground black markets there is enough already .... |
| 14:07 | gavinandresen | The press loves a mystery-- gives them a good hook for interesting stories. |
| 14:07 | devrandom | first used key is in block 9.... http://blockexplorer.com/a/fuWLnx1cN |
| 14:07 | eps | anyone who understands what open source is won't be bothered by satoshi's secret identity |
| 14:07 | Kiba | we know next to nothing about satoshi |
| 14:07 | eps | but it will probably take a while for the average joe to get to that point |
| 14:07 | xelister | jp male |
| 14:07 | xelister | coder |
| 14:08 | Blitzboom | i dont want to. satoshis anonymity is a necessity to protect him |
| 14:08 | xelister | hacker |
| 14:08 | xelister | realted to economy |
| 14:08 | MacRohard | maybe bitcoin was setup by the narcocartels as a way to modernize their distribution system |
| 14:08 | xelister | related to programming |
| 14:08 | gavinandresen | He also suggested that I give you'all more credit-- and I agree, you'all deserve more credit.... |
| 14:08 | xelister | will be made RICH slowly if his idea works out |
| 14:08 | Kiba | bitcoin is skynet and we are its machine |
| 14:08 | xelister | and his program has a theme of micro payments, and ~0.01 payments |
| 14:08 | BlueMatt | gavinandresen: the problem is there are many of us, and one of him so more credit to us still means he gets the most ;) |
| 14:08 | xelister | I FOUND A CHARACTER MATCHING ALL ABOVE CRITERIA :) |
| 14:09 | Kiba | Is it L? |
| 14:09 | xelister | no |
| 14:09 | Kiba | japanaese male. world's best detective. Half british. |
| 14:09 | Kiba | love sugar and candy |
| 14:09 | xelister | Satosi is not a fucking detective |
| 14:09 | Kiba | lol |
| 14:10 | xelister | he is a hacker if at all |
| 14:10 | BlueMatt | so...japanese sherlock? |
| 14:10 | xelister | and a bit of revolutionist |
| 14:10 | gavinandresen | no, he's a rogue british secret agent.... |
| 14:10 | xelister | and I found person matching the above :) |
| 14:10 | gavinandresen | (damn it, I just did it again.... too much fun speculating....) |
| 14:10 | xelister | gavinandresen: 1000 BTC to know what the person is? Surly its change money for you ;) |
| 14:10 | Kiba | no |
| 14:10 | Blitzboom | satoshi = secret military project |
| 14:10 | Kiba | Satoshi is a half Japanese hacker girl pretending to be a male |
| 14:11 | midnightmagic | i understand what open source is, and satoshi's identity is irrelevant. what's more important is knowing more about the rationale behind the design, and that i don't see. |
| 14:11 | BlueMatt | I thought someone did an analysis of post times and determined hes probably american? |
| 14:11 | Kiba | American or British |
| 14:11 | midnightmagic | might just be in the U.S. |
| 14:11 | BlueMatt | Kiba: very, very different time zones |
| 14:12 | TD | midnightmagic: i agree, that's why i've been drilling satoshi with questions for the past months. i'm sure gavin has been doing the same |
| 14:12 | midnightmagic | does he answer you? |
| 14:12 | TD | parts of the design are definitely clearer in my mind now. it's unfortunate that nearly nothing about bitcoin was documented. |
| 14:12 | TD | beyond the paper |
| 14:12 | TD | yes he does answer me, though sometimes it takes a few days |
| 14:13 | midnightmagic | are you writing this stuff down somewhere? |
| 14:13 | devrandom | TD - what remains unclear? economic dynamics? |
| 14:13 | TD | the emails come in at basically random times. he uses outlook express on a mac, i suspect he artificially delays responses to make it harder to figure out where he is :-) |
| 14:13 | TD | no, some details of how best to use the more obscure features |
| 14:13 | xelister | SATOSHI |
| 14:13 | xelister | USES |
| 14:13 | xelister | OUTLOOK EXPRESS |
| 14:13 | xelister | ???????????????????????????????????????? |
| 14:13 | xelister | what the fuck |
| 14:13 | luke-jr | lol |
| 14:13 | xelister | what the fuck the fuck. |
| 14:13 | luke-jr | that explains a bit |
| 14:13 | xelister | only retard use OE |
| 14:13 | BlueMatt | probably faking th headers |
| 14:13 | xelister | *retards |
| 14:13 | luke-jr | OE isn't all that bad |
| 14:13 | luke-jr | but it IS Windows |
| 14:14 | luke-jr | xelister: he probably emails from a library |
| 14:14 | TD | he didn't comment when i asked him about the dynamics of mining in a fully fee based system. but i already decided it won't likely be an issue so i'm not too worried about that ;-) |
| 14:14 | devrandom | TD - curious to hear which ones? |
| 14:14 | B0g4r7 | It would be good to preserve those emails. |
| 14:14 | xelister | well |
| 14:14 | TD | i've been asking mostly about things like sequence numbers, nLockTime, designing distributed contracts and some details of how he imagined thin clients to work. |
| 14:14 | gavinandresen | TD: actually, I haven't been grilling him-- I've been too busy with other stuff to dive deep into the code. You should definitely write up what you've learned. |
| 14:15 | xelister | I know a personal that matches Satoshi as closelly as 1 in 10 milion or so =) |
| 14:15 | TD | yeah. i'm going to write up a wiki page on the distributed contracts stuff |
| 14:15 | TD | like i said, i asked if he'd review that but he ignored that part of my mail. i think he wants to stay as hands off as possible now. |
| 14:15 | Kiba | distributed contracts |
| 14:15 | TD | i'll write up what i've learned when i feel i understand it a bit better |
| 14:15 | midnightmagic | TD: can i request that you write these things down somewhere so it's not just stuck in the half-life of someone's brain? :( |
| 14:16 | midnightmagic | are you barred from posting his discussion with you? |
| 14:16 | BlueMatt | TD: does he still use the @gmx.com email? |
| 14:16 | BlueMatt | midnightmagic: you think TD throws away emails, he uses gmail, wasnt that the whole point google pushed when they started gmail? |
| 14:16 | BurtyB | oi xelister I wouldnt class myself as a retarded OE user :p |
| 14:17 | luke-jr | BlueMatt: so Google throws away emails for you? |
| 14:17 | BlueMatt | luke-jr: point was they dont |
| 14:17 | BlueMatt | ie gmail was designed so that you never delete email |
| 14:17 | phantomcircuit | there's a thunderbird extension that forges headers, it defaults to outlook express |
| 14:17 | midnightmagic | BlueMatt: first off, i didn't know that. secondly, it doesn't matter: if TD gets hit by a bus, all that conversation "goes away". |
| 14:18 | BlueMatt | midnightmagic: it was mostly sarcastic to point out google's odd habits as a company |
| 14:18 | midnightmagic | more sarcasm, doh. of course. it's BM. |
| 14:18 | midnightmagic | my mistake |
| 14:18 | TD | i keep all the mail, obviously |
| 14:19 | BlueMatt | yep, sorry...I really need to stop doing that online |
| 14:19 | TD | and he still responds to me on the gmx.com address. but i don't know if he replies to everyone. i think justmoon contacted him asking about official approval for the video and didn't get a response. |
| 14:19 | midnightmagic | BlueMatt: I don't think so, i say keep it up, it's more interesting that way |
| 14:19 | TD | my impression is he's willing to discuss the technical details, perhaps with a few people, but otherwise doesn't want to be involved with the project any more. which makes sense. |
| 14:20 | BlueMatt | midnightmagic: :) |
| 14:20 | genjix | TD: do you use sync threads or async reactors? |
| 14:21 | TD | genjix: i'm lacking context. use in what ? |
| 14:21 | TD | bitcoinj? gmail? |
| 14:21 | genjix | for connections in bitcoinj |
| 14:21 | devrandom | BlueMatt - is autotools going into .21? |
| 14:21 | genjix | i think you use threads |
| 14:21 | TD | threads |
| 14:21 | genjix | kk |
| 14:21 | BlueMatt | devrandom: no, just 0.4 |
| 14:21 | TD | by the way, satoshi anticipated the rise of GPU mining right from the start |
| 14:21 | devrandom | ok |
| 14:21 | genjix | ohh interesting |
| 14:39 | kile | BlueMatt: when i mine using a pooler my miner sends hashes to the pool right? |
| 14:40 | lfm | kile: not really, you send the block headers with nonces which produce the hashes wanted |
| 14:41 | kile | lfm: im trying to understand how poolers create shares |
| 14:41 | lfm | kile: well first do you understand how solo mining works? |
| 14:42 | kile | lfm: yes can you explain me a bit? |
| 14:42 | kile | lfm: i dont understand very good how blocks are passed away and stuff |
| 14:42 | kile | lfm: i think each bitcoin client gets a few blocks to solve ( calculate a valid hash for the block ) |
| 14:42 | kile | thats all i understand |
| 14:43 | xelister | kile: you get milions of milions hashes to solve, one of them will get you a 50 btc rewar |
| 14:43 | xelister | reward |
| 14:43 | lfm | ok, you're trying to find the 80 byte block headers that produce the hashes which pass the target constraints(difficulty) |
| 14:43 | xelister | depending on luck it can take weeks or months |
| 14:43 | kile | xelister: i see so my bitcoin client gets millions of millons of hashes to solve or blocks? |
| 14:43 | kile | xlister: i think my bitcoin client gets blocks and is asked to hash them, right ? |
| 14:44 | lfm | solving isnt really what your doing. it more like searching |
| 14:44 | xelister | kile: find N so that sha256( sha256( data + N ) ) < target. So your comkputer tries milions of N and if he finds the 'correct' one it gets a bonus |
| 14:44 | xxxxxxx | kile, you try to find a random string which hashes to a value less than X, say X is 10, which is really hard to do, when u coop mine, you send the mine pool any value that is less than 100 instead of 10,which is easier to do, and not small enough to solve a block, but small enuf to prove to them you are in fact mining |
| 14:45 | xelister | I even have a pool that mathematicall calculates |
| 14:45 | xelister | if you should be solo mining or not |
| 14:45 | xxxxxxx | so they know what % of hashpower ur contributing to the pool |
| 14:45 | xelister | it consist just few simple questions |
| 14:45 | xelister | actually it is a really easy questionnare to determin if you should solo mine |
| 14:46 | kile | xxxxxxx: why would a pool want the value that be less than 100 ? if it only needs the one thats less than 10 ? |
| 14:46 | xxxxxxx | kile, to prove to them ur actually trying to mien stuff |
| 14:46 | kile | i think the pool would discard those >10 |
| 14:46 | xxxxxxx | well, to prove what speed ur hasing at |
| 14:46 | lfm | kila just so it can tell you are trying |
| 14:46 | xxxxxxx | yea it discards them, but this way it knows how much to pay who when someone finally solves a block |
| 14:47 | xxxxxxx | so if i send in hashes < 100 at a rate of 1 per hour and you send tem in at 2 per hour |
| 14:47 | xxxxxxx | ur doing twice as much work as me |
| 14:48 | xelister | well just do the questionnare |
| 14:48 | kile | xxxxxxx: what if everyone on the pool ( all the miners ) just send values that are 80<x<90 ? they will still get shares? and what if there is only one guy that sends the < 10 hash ? |
| 14:48 | lfm | the two numbers are actually more like 2^32 and (2^32 * 100000) |
| 14:48 | xxxxxxx | kile, yea they will |
| 14:48 | kile | it takes the same speed to calculate a <10 hash that to calculate a 80 hash right? |
| 14:48 | xxxxxxx | kile, and the guy that acutally solves the hash will only get whatever his contribution was, he doesnt get anyhting special for finding it |
| 14:57 | kile | xxxxxxx: and if some other pool solved the block first? |
| 14:57 | xxxxxxx | kile, thats documented somewhere |
| 14:57 | kile | what happens? the block gets orphan and all the miners wont earn anything? |
| 14:57 | xxxxxxx | u get a split chain until teh next block |
| 14:57 | xxxxxxx | or something |
