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Original Paths of Civilization

Discussion in 'Quests' started by Academia Nut, Feb 27, 2017.

  1. Threadmarks: Beginnings
    The world is out of order. No one knows why, what spirits or ancestors have been angered, but the land is shifting in ways that bring tremendous hardship to the people. Landmarks known for generations are no longer corresponding to what they should be. The elders remember the course of rivers and the boundaries of forests and being different, and speak of their elders worrying over these shifts as well. Every season the hunting grows harder and the plants that feed your people grow increasingly scarce. The future feels dangerous and uncertain, and as the tribe gathers for the summer meet there is a palpable feeling that something must change, that life will go on, but perhaps not as before.

    After the initial round of standard calls to the spirits and ancestors to watch over them and initial airing of grievances among the tribe, one of the younger men takes up the speaking stick and says, "Brothers, elders, and young mothers, I come before you to speak of the people of the river valley. Tales tell of how poor the region is and has been, and yet my clan peers down on them from our lands and sees that their numbers grow greater each year even as I see fewer young mothers inducted in place of passing elders each time we meet like this. I have watched them, and how they scatter seeds to the mud left by spring flooding and then collect a tremendous bounty of food come the autumn chills. I and members of my clan have gone seeking food in hard times, and they dare to call us lazy and greedy and only begrudgingly share their plenty when we are hungry, or even refuse to altogether."

    At this there is general harrumphing from the council, and the young man says, "These people, they refuse to help, and so they will slowly strangle us. As of yet their numbers are small, but they grow quickly, and worse yet they have started to attack game not because they are hungry or to honour the ancestors, but because the animals are eating the plants they grow. They are a wicked lot, and must be dealt with quickly and decisively, lest they drive away all the game and leave us to starve while gorging themselves."

    "You propose to attack as one, to drive these people off?" One of the elders asks with skepticism and the faint air of disgust.

    "Yes. As one the tribe is still greater than them, we have the numbers to put an end to their wickedness before they grow too numerous and we grow too weak," the man explains, his face hardening at that.

    "Pfah! No wonder your neighbours do not wish to extend charity to you!" The elder proclaims, waving at him dismissively. One of the other elders gestures to have the speaking stick, and the bellicose man hands it to her.

    "I too have seen these people, and while I agree with my nephew's assessment in part, that we cannot simply let the situation continue without action, I disagree on what that action should be. The people of the river valley do not simply sit back and amass food at little effort, they put considerable work caring to the grasses they grow, watching over them as a mother tends to a child. Of course they do not wish to simply share their efforts with anyone who asks. However, I remember stories of older times, of when things were better, of men who would walk long paths across the seasons, gathering little themselves but carrying with them fine items from distant lands that they could exchange for food. They no longer walk the paths to our lands, there being little here for them anymore, but perhaps if we had things that the people of the rivers wanted we could simply exchange for food," the old woman explained, to general vocal disagreement until by holding up the speaking stick long enough she managed to shame them back into general decorum.

    She said, "If nothing else, we will need to travel further with the seasons as the valley people disrupt the herds with their habits. We may as well find ways to bring in more food for our efforts."

    Handing the stick over to an older man not quite to the full greyness of a proper elder, he says, "I hear the others speak and know from my own experiences, and I know that only uncertainty lies before us. Fundamentally though, I think we are confronted with the question of 'do we move, or do we move the valley people'? Any other answer is unacceptable, we cannot continue like this. Posed in such a way, we must consider a simpler and yet perhaps more disquieting way of addressing the issue: we leave these lands for ones where prospects are better."

    At that there is another explosion of shouting and protest, but the most white haired elders had already anticipated it this time and formed up a unified front of disapproving faces to glare down the more red faced members of the tribe, despite their own obvious displeasure with the proposal. Some things were sacred, including allowing the one with the speaking stick to give his or her peace, even if the words flirted with the profane. Waiting for silence to die down properly again, the man said, "I know it would be abandoning the lands of our ancestors, but if there is not enough food here, do we have any choice but to seek out better elsewhere, if we are not to stain these lands with the murder of our neighbours?"

    At this, one of the younger men raises a hand to have a turn to speak, and the man who proposed the tribe move to better grounds gave it over to him. "Older brother of the tribe, I think that your proposal has merit, but surely the best hunting grounds are guarded by other tribes who feel threatened? If the people of this valley can learn to turn mud and grass to a bounty of food, can we not do the same? Could we not find another valley shunned for its floods that we might spread seed as our neighbours do? Would not the numbers that could let us take the land of our neighbours today protect us even as we reverse our fortunes?"

    This of course kicks off an even bigger argument at the proposal of abandoning not just land but ways as well. It is at this point that those overseeing the argument simply give up on simple one-at-a-time measures and call for organized debate and organization.

    Choose a path for the people...
    [] Path of War
    [] Path of Trade
    [] Path of Wanderers
    [] Path of Settlers

    AN: A curious idea, I wanted to do a civilization type game, but move away from a lot of the micromanaging type details and more towards something a bit more general. This is not about optimizing minutiae, but about choosing the structures and ideals of a people, culture, and civilization over time as various challenges rear their head.
     
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  2. Threadmarks: Civilization Sheet
    Ymaryn "The People"

    Civilization Stats

    General
    Diplomacy 12 [+4]
    Economy 9 (+1) [-1+4]
    Econ Expansion 9 [+1-4]
    Martial 10 {13}

    Stability
    Stability 0 (neutral)
    Legitimacy 3 (max)

    Organizational
    Centralization 4
    Hierarchy 6
    Religious Authority 2

    Cultural
    Art 4
    Mysticism 9 [+1]
    Prestige 20

    Statuses
    Baby Boom: +4 Econ, -4 Econ Expansion per turn while active

    Trade Status
    ResourceStatusRivals
    Luxuries  
    AmberKnown only 
    Fine PotteryMinorXohyssiri
    Fine DyeDominatingHathatyn, Trelli
    Fine TextilesNoneXohyssiri, Swamp Folk, Trelli
    FursKnown only 
    GlassMarginalXohyssiri
    GoldLesser tradingHathatyn, Metal Workers, Trelli
    SilverLeadingHath, MW, Xoh, Trelli
    SaltDominatingNone, Trelli
    SpicesNoneTrelli
    WineLeadingHath, Trelli
    Strategic  
    CopperSignificantHath, Highlanders, Thunder Horse, MW, Trelli
    BronzeNoneTrelli
    TinNoneMW (in), TH (in), Hath (in), HK (in), Trelli
    IronNon-traded dominantNone
    Cultural  
    PilgrimageSignificantThunder Speakers, Xoh

    Periphery States (4/4+2)
    Stallion Tribes (March) - Eliminates raids from the north and mitigates raids from the east, can provide military advances and supports the Western Wall
    Western Wall (Colony) - Expands to produce new provinces and find new resources, and can take be brought into wars to the north and west
    Hatriver (March) - Eliminates raids from the south-east, can provide military advances
    Greenshore Trading Post (Trading Post) - Increases trade power for all Metal Worker products, provides a market for an extra saltern

    Social Values (3/3)
    Divine Stewards
    Through the blessings of the spirits and the efforts of the People, the land is reshaped, and its management and protection is a good above all others. No effort is to great when it comes to the stewardship of the land.
    Pros: Bonuses to all actions relating to land management, bonuses when fighting on own terrain, additional Econ and Stability whenever completing a land management type Megaproject, may spend Stability to double the effort of megaprojects and in defensive wars
    Cons: Additional strife caused by deliberate environmental disruption unless it is for the long term betterment of the land, or loss of territory to others

    Greater Justice
    Justice exists for the good of all, protecting the community from the depravity of those who would do it damage.
    Pros: Justice is a community objective that can be served through the careful application of punishment
    Cons: The needs of the many can outweigh the needs of the few

    Cosmopolitan Acceptance
    The People see not outsiders but fellow humans in need of assistance, and are always willing to offer aid, knowing that even when friendship is uncertain the act of offering is a cleansing one.
    Pros: Enhanced absorption of new ideas, +1 social value from current or historical neighbours, whenever a neighbour suffers a stability drop have the option to also suffer a stability drop in exchange for a large boost to Econ and technological and social advancement by absorbing especially large numbers of people, the first Econ boost a turn only has a chance of causing a stability drop rather than a guaranteed drop
    Cons: Many think you weak, no longer have the option to turn away the needy, sometimes you get values you didn't expect

    Centre of Trade (CA Linked)
    By controlling access to resources you can get other people to come to you with their resources, enriching you.
    Pros: Gain bonus Diplomacy a turn for dominating certain forms of trade, early access to more advanced mechanics
    Cons: Others entering your markets prompts anger and strife

    Spiritual Values (3/3)
    Symphony
    All have their part to play in this world, be it their interaction with each other or with the spirits. When all the parts of a group are moving in accord, the result is greater than the sum of the parts.
    Pros: Bonus to collective action, spiritually and ecologically harmonious actions, and to concerted efforts
    Cons: Disharmony is to be corrected, require casus belli to declare war

    Honourable Death (Spiritual/Honour)
    Death in service to the People and the spirits is the best death of all, removing the fear of death from the truly honourable.
    Pros: Warriors fight harder, losses in battle are less disruptive
    Cons: Seeking a good death, and the means to achieve it, becomes desirable

    Love of Wisdom (Maxed development)
    The People have learned not just to be aware of the world around them and to follow the patterns they see, but to also carefully test the patterns to see if they are actual patterns or just coincidence.
    Pros: Significantly improved use of study actions and innovation rolls
    Cons: Can question social foundations

    Honour Code (3/3)
    We Have Reserves
    The People are well served by having a large contingent of warriors, although these warriors are also drawn in part from the labouring classes, such that losses can negatively affect productivity
    Pros: Gain +1/3 of Econ as bonus Martial, chance of negating Martial (and thus Econ) damage dependent upon Econ strength
    Cons: Damage to Martial can carry over to Econ (additional damage from Honour of Elites does not count)

    Honour of Elites
    The perfection of a skill in service to others, particularly martial skill, is among the highest achievements a person can have. Of course, who can afford to achieve perfection is not always even...
    Pros: Increase Martial gain from raising elite units
    Cons: Increased potential Martial loss in fighting, increased social stratification

    Lord's Loyalty
    The ties between the People bind tight, and while this increases the obligations of the superior, it also makes the subordinate more likely to listen.
    Pros: +1 Subordinate States, subordinate states less likely to break away
    Cons: Minimum force commitment in defence of subordinates and allies increased one step, worse consequences for failure to assist

    Legacies
    +2 Centralization Tolerance
    +1 Hierarchy Tolerance
    Rush Builders: Extended projects cost more per turn but complete faster
    Rage Against the Steppes - Always have a casus belli with Subdue Tribe or Humiliate War Goal against steppe nomads
    Early Iron Bringers: Materials advancement always a possibility during Golden Ages, regardless of available excesses
    Iron Blooded: Expand Econ actions produce an extra +1 Econ
    Protected Core: +1 March slot
    One of Each (Three): +1 Periphery State

    Government Type
    Oligarchic Ancient Kingdom
    A king holds chief executive power, but is primarily drawn from and voted in by a limited set of families backed by economic might and military elites.
    Pros: Good mix of central authority and provincial autonomy
    Cons: Beware competing ambitions...

    Debilitating Belief
    N/A

    Administration
    Basic Administrative Math
    Chariot Couriers
    Memory
    Early Writing (Mixed Logo-/Phonographic)
    Non-Local Authority
    Early Indexing
    Written Laws

    Construction
    Arch
    Wood
    Masonry
    Early City Walls

    Energy Production
    Muscle Power
    Animal Power

    Food Production
    Chinampas
    Fishing
    Horse Milling
    Mollusc Cultivation
    Orchards
    Ox-pulled plough
    Step Farming
    Terra Preta

    Materials
    Well Dressed Stone
    Ash glazed pottery
    Bronze
    Early iron bloomeries
    Primitive glass

    Medicine
    Acupuncture/pressure
    Ancient human anatomy
    Empirical primitive sanitary theory
    Herbalism
    Hospice care
    Oral rehydration therapy
    Primitive insect repellents
    Ritual cowpox inoculation
    Spiritualism

    Science
    Ancestral Heroes
    Polytheism
    Astrology
    Tested Observation

    Transportation
    Animal Husbandry
    Gravel Roads
    Spoked Wheel Vehicles

    Watercraft
    Great Canoes
    Major docks
    Portagable Sailboats
    Artistry
    Political Art
    Sacred Art
    Specialists
    Mural
    Sculpture

    Authority
    Directed Political Violence
    Law Itself
    Non-familial Patronage
    Occupational Association
    Tradition

    Administrators
    Primarily hereditary elites
    Specialist advisors

    Entertainers
    Amateur group activity
    Non-caste semi-specialists

    Intellectuals
    Priests
    Shamans

    Leadership
    Mostly hereditary elites

    Merchants
    Hereditary family

    Metal Working
    Lined tailings pits
    Specialist miners
    Specialist smelters

    Property
    Communal land
    Association equipment

    Warriors
    Hereditary elites
    Semi-hereditary specialist
    Spiritually trained elites
    Yeomanry
    Armour
    Leather
    Quilted cloth
    Wicker

    Cavalry
    Chariot Archer Elites
    Spoked chariots

    Melee
    Close formation
    Daggers
    Maces
    Light Shields
    Spears
    Two-Handed Clubs

    Ranged
    Composite Bows
    Massed fire
    Slings
    Spear Throwers
    Sacred Forest
    While the forests stand and the people care for them, the forests shall care for them. As long as the Sacred Forest is intact, all forests under the control of the People are considered managed, and gain the new action Expand Forest.

    Stone Age Canal
    The People cut an artificial river in the hills without the use of metal. Not only does this improve the internal economy and trade, but as long as its memory remains it will be a source of pride in collective labour. Whenever the People complete a major engineering project, they also gain Art and Mysticism.

    Sacred Warding
    While the sacred herds exist and are cared for by the People, the herds in turn shall offer their strength and protection to the People. The effects of epidemic smallpox are severely blunted, and pandemic smallpox is entirely prevented. While this does not extend to other epidemic diseases, the actions do help, providing a bonus to all disease challenges and Study Health actions. Additionally, any time a new settlement is founded with a Main action, a new holy site is produced for free, granting +1 Mysticism.

    Written Code of Laws (Copper Age)
    Bold, early innovators, the People have established an early written code of laws. While it will undoubtedly change over the centuries, this early establishment of what the rules definitely are with clear guidelines for punishment will serve as an important cornerstone for maintaining stability and clarity of order. Upgrades Enforce Authority to Enforce Law, doubles the strength of one Policy action per turn, and allows for the 'Megaproject support' Policy.

    Ancient Saltern
    Gives an initial bonus to Econ, +1 Diplomacy every turn until the invention of currency, grants access to the Salt Gift action, and the Saltern extended project action, when acceptable sites for construction or expansion can be found

    The Garden
    Through the careful channeling of water, the People have created a garden within a city, a well watered domain of pleasant shade and efficient sewage disposal. Unlocks the aqueduct extended project, provides an aqueduct for the city (increasing available living space). Opens up the True City status

    Grand Temple
    A place for universal praise and worship of gods and spirits, the grand temple acts as a centre for the faithful and a training place for priests and shamans. Opens up new social concepts, alters actions, and provides +1 Mysticism a turn until either destroyed or rendered obsolete by more sophisticated theology

    The Library
    A fantastical collection of scrolls and tablets, this preserves the wisdom of the ages and ensures that not all things must be relearned by each new generation. Whenever spending mysticism, gain +1 mysticism the next turn. Can now build libraries as extended actions.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2017 at 12:45 AM
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  3. UbeOne

    UbeOne Crescent Rose is Best Weapon

    Location:
    Philippines
    [x] Path of Settlers

    Civilization starts with this.
     
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  4. Kingofbooks

    Kingofbooks

    Location:
    Virginia
    [X] Path of Trade
     
  5. StellarMonarch

    StellarMonarch I AM THE HIGH AMBASSADOR

    Location:
    Nouvelle-France
    I think an analysis of the most successful or interesting ancient polities of the world is in order. Lemme do some research before casting my vote.

    Anyhow, I adore the idea.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2017
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  6. Glint

    Glint [Verified Waifu]

    Location:
    Beacon Academy
    [X] Path of Settlers

    What? You're related to them? How bout them? THEM TOO? And those people? WHAT THEY'RE YOUR THIRD COUSINS? And that country? WHAT THAT'S YOUR NIECE THAT'S QUEEN?!
     
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  7. Dormin

    Dormin

    Location:
    USA
    [X] Path of Wanderers
     
  8. Tealg

    Tealg Steward of The Holy Tome

    [X] Path of Trade

    Going path of war and murdering out neighbors will only close doors into future profit, wandering nomads always get repressed by more established cultures, and literally everyone else is doing the settle thing. This gives us the best options for growth and profit.
     
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  9. StellarMonarch

    StellarMonarch I AM THE HIGH AMBASSADOR

    Location:
    Nouvelle-France
    Path of War is self evident. Here, we have the foundation of a warrior culture. Not my cup of tea, and tends towards alienation and waste of manpower. Could work, maybe lead to something like the Iroquois or Japan.

    Path of Trade is a mixed one. Wealthy nations can merc spam like no other, and wealth is nice, but we're easily crippled if trade doesn't come in for any reason. Could arguably lead to an Arab or Viking like culture. Certainly most successful.

    Path of Wanderers is icky to me. Nomads aren't likely to survive as a culture, much less a civilization. There were some significant developments from that though, such as the Mongols and the immigration from Siberia to America.

    Path of Settlers? Not... speaking to me, but high pop is sweet. Kind of on the less interesting side, though. Practically guarantees our survival.

    All of these could lead somewhere good... I'll keep digging. No Wanderer though.
     
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  10. [X] Path of Trade
     
  11. Shard

    Shard I am who I am, no more and no less.

    Location:
    Malaysia
    [X] Path of Wanderers

    Who needs civilization?
     
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  12. StellarMonarch

    StellarMonarch I AM THE HIGH AMBASSADOR

    Location:
    Nouvelle-France
    You, you foul savage troglodyte.
     
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  13. AZATHOTHoth

    AZATHOTHoth ༼つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

    [X] Path of Trade
     
  14. [X] Path of War

    If my study of human history has taught me anything it is that victory generally goes to the civilization most capable of killing.
     
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  15. StellarMonarch

    StellarMonarch I AM THE HIGH AMBASSADOR

    Location:
    Nouvelle-France
    Leaning towards Settlers, but Traders looks alright. Still debating with myself.

    Greeks were quite territorially prolific, Egypt had their lifeblood in the Nile, India had their fertile lands, China had pop...

    Victory, but not survival.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2017
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  16. [X] Path of War
     
  17. [X] Path of Settlers
     
  18. [X] Path of Trade
     
  19. Powerofmind

    Powerofmind Firebrand Explorer

    Location:
    United States
    [x] Path of Settlers

    We'll find our own land, with blackjack and hookers!
     
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  20. StellarMonarch

    StellarMonarch I AM THE HIGH AMBASSADOR

    Location:
    Nouvelle-France
    [X] Path of Settlers

    Success, more options for the future and moar population.
     
  21. Marlin

    Marlin

    Location:
    Somewhere
    [X] Path of Settlers
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2017
  22. Ghostdevil

    Ghostdevil Boo Motherfuckers >:)

    Location:
    United States
    [X] Path of Settlers
     
  23. redzonejoe

    redzonejoe Vaguely Pastafarian

    Location:
    Canada
    I'm convinced.

    [x] Path of Settlers
     
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  24. Ghostdevil

    Ghostdevil Boo Motherfuckers >:)

    Location:
    United States
    We need to expand, and in least we magic it hard, probably take slaves like all successful societies. So for that we must go far and wide, Manifest Destiny. Taking land is our right, taking wealth is our duty, and taking lives is our necessity! :p
     
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