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Earthstrike
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(Today, 05:06 AM)
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As we all know, various art forms have what they consider to be their canon. If we accept video games as an art, then it too should have its own canon.

I submit undertale as canonical.

For one thing, its genre is incredibly unique. It contains aspects of rpgs, but it also feels like the successful integration of shoot-em-up with puzzle. It's a remarkable achievement. Most people would not interpret undertale as a shoot-em-up, yet the majority of it's actual gameplay elements that require skill are just in that category. The clever twist is that you can use positional manipulation of the projectiles flying towards you in unique ways not conceived of before.

Toby Fox figured out that every enemy and boss can feel like their own unique puzzle. The gameplay has a unique, standout feel reminiscent of portal, in that your brain is offered an assortment of puzzles that is offered within the confines of an common set of surprisingly simple rules.

Another thing that is fairly unique is the very successful use of new game plus within undertale. While a game like Chrono Trigger made you want to play through a couple more times, Undertale made you feel like the additional playthrough was part of the playthrough.. This is again, a unique experience not found in many other games.

This game feels like it has its own unique stylization. In the same ways Basquiat, Pollock, and Salvado Dali had their own unique stylizations, undertale carves out its own niche with the context of unique gameplay configurations.

I know it's a bit early to bring up undertale in the context of great games, and also in the context of canonical greats, but it's hard for me to not look at this game as not offering a unique niche in the same way games like symphony of the night, Portal, and Shadow of the Colossus, each had a unique approach to a genre that gave you this delicious sampling of the qualia of an art form. What makes this all the more impressive is that it was pushed out almost entirely by a single individual. This game did make me laugh. It made me feel sad at times, it made me think at times. It has an amazing sound track, and hearing it now generates this pleasureful nostalgia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2-6GFkMpdM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNN0HyO3rM4

I can't help but feel that history will be kind to this game. It really highlights the ability of individuals who are truly talented to still be able to enter the industry, in spite of market oversaturation. I hold out for more games like undertale to come, and for individuals to never give up on their dreams.
DNAbro
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(Today, 05:11 AM)
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It certainly stands out among many other games and I feel like will be regarded as a classic in the future.
Fat4all
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(Today, 05:11 AM)
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canonical to what? to itself?

are you using the right word?
DJ88
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(Today, 05:12 AM)
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Originally Posted by Fat4all

canonical to what? to itself?

are you using the right word?

The canon of video games.
BlackProdigy
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(Today, 05:12 AM)
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Originally Posted by Fat4all

canonical to what? to itself?

are you using the right word?


lmao im so confused also
SolicitorPirate
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(Today, 05:12 AM)
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No arguments here. One of these days, I'd like to outline my thoughts on Undertale in a longform format, but for now, I'll just say that it would be a very good thing for the industry and the community if Undertale informs and inspires gamers and developers for years to come.
Admiral Woofington
m'Souls, m'lady
(Today, 05:13 AM)
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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means
Marmaladefire
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(Today, 05:13 AM)
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This thread is why people groan when they hear "Undertale"
How About No
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(Today, 05:13 AM)
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Originally Posted by Fat4all

canonical to what? to itself?

are you using the right word?

Canonical to the Earthbound Halloween Hack

But yeah I can agree with everything you said, OP
Nose Master
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(Today, 05:13 AM)
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not 100% you know what canonical is
Kayhan
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(Today, 05:13 AM)
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That word, canonical, I don't think it means what you think it means.
Isotropy
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(Today, 05:13 AM)
Canonical to... what, exactly? Itself? Of course.

Videogames as an artform? Perhaps.

The canon of Western culture? Probably not...
Zubz
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(Today, 05:13 AM)
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Originally Posted by Fat4all

canonical to what? to itself?

are you using the right word?

Yeah. It's being used in the stylistic sense instead of the lore sense.

I feel like there're other games that touched on a lot of its themes prior, but Undertale's the one that did them all together. I'll have to agree w/ Earthstrike on this one.
Fat4all
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(Today, 05:13 AM)
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Originally Posted by DJ88

The canon of video games.

arent all video games?
L Thammy
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(Today, 05:13 AM)
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Originally Posted by Fat4all

canonical to what? to itself?

are you using the right word?

Maybe? I feel like in order to say that the game is influential on culture, though, we have to wait for it to influence culture.
dragonlife
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(Today, 05:14 AM)
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Originally Posted by Fat4all

canonical to what? to itself?

are you using the right word?

Yeah, I'm confused.
RedBoot
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(Today, 05:14 AM)
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Originally Posted by Fat4all

canonical to what? to itself?

are you using the right word?

Think of it as saying if we wanted a museum exhibit that displayed the most notable and unique works of video games, the ones that illustrated what the medium was truly capable of, then Undertale would be in that exhibit.

And then the Annoying Dog would steal it.
Permanently A
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(Today, 05:14 AM)
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I guess OP is basically just asking for Undertale to be added to the list of timeless "greats" of video games. Which I would agree to.
JaffeLion
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(Today, 05:14 AM)
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its ok.
ForsakenLotus
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(Today, 05:15 AM)
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princessbride.jpeg
Fat4all
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(Today, 05:15 AM)
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Originally Posted by L Thammy

Maybe? I feel like in order to say that the game is influential on culture, though, we have to wait for it to influence culture.

huh, i only really interpreted the word 'canon' in the pop culture sense i guess
Renegade Frost
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(Today, 05:15 AM)
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Originally Posted by Admiral Woofington

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means

He's talking about the canon of video games.

Read up m8/

Jeez, its kind of sad that y'all dont know what a canon is. There's no need to try and make the OP feel bad lol.
nded
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(Today, 05:15 AM)
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Canon: "the list of works considered to be permanently established as being of the highest quality."
WrenchNinja
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(Today, 05:16 AM)
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Forgot the game existed.
Oxymoron
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(Today, 05:16 AM)
Guys,

can·on1
ˈkanən/Submit
the list of works considered to be permanently established as being of the highest quality.
"Hopkins was firmly established in the canon of English poetry"
sueil
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(Today, 05:16 AM)
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Pope Francis canonized it.
TheXbox
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(Today, 05:16 AM)
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I've heard 'canon' used in this sense before, OP's not high.
Chobel
I shouldn't make bets because every time I do my tag gets worse
(Today, 05:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by nded

Canon: "the list of works considered to be permanently established as being of the highest quality."

TIL

If so yes, Undertale 110% deserves to join this "canon"
Fury451
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(Today, 05:17 AM)
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I get what you're saying, but I think referring to it as a staple, iconic, or legendary would cause far less confusion. Canon has a very specific meaning these days and usually pertains to a series, but it's an appropriate word here as well.
L Thammy
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(Today, 05:17 AM)
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sonto340
(Today, 05:17 AM)
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lol at the people trying to call out the op for not knowing what canon means not knowing what canon means
Renegade Frost
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(Today, 05:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by WrenchNinja

Forgot the game existed.

F O U L ! ! !

Wait so how does the port work? Undertale shuts your PC off midgame for shenanigans (like that one gamecube game by dennis dyack who's name escapes me right now)

Originally Posted by Fury451

I get what you're saying, but I think referring to it as a staple, iconic, or legendary would cause far less confusion. Canon has a very specific meaning these days and usually pertains to a series, but it's an appropriate word here as well.

OP is not responsible for people's ignorance. Nor would I be surprised at people here complaining about the "hyperbole" of such a statement and making jokes about Ubisoft and Watch Dogs if he used the word iconic.
WhiteRabbitEXE
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(Today, 05:18 AM)
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The folks in this thread saying OP doesn't know what "canonical" means are killing me.

Reminds me of people who think "memes" are strictly JPEGs of cats with extra bold text on top.
Fat4all
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(Today, 05:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by L Thammy

BARKLY: Shut Up and Jam Gaiden is canon and canon.
etrain911
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(Today, 05:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by Marmaladefire

This thread is why people groan when they hear "Undertale"

This 100%. It is a very unique game, and maybe some day it will achieve that classic status, but until this announcement dropped, the game has not been talked about at all this year. The initial reception was immense, a dude even gave it to the fucking pope, but it died down significantly very quickly.
UserDoesNotExist
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(Today, 05:18 AM)
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UNDERTALE'S CANON, RIGHT?!?!
* Undertale is canon
* Undertale is not canon <3
Jtwo
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(Today, 05:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by WhiteRabbitEXE

The folks in this thread saying OP doesn't know what "canonical" means are killing me.

I know!!!!!
How About No
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(Today, 05:18 AM)
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This thread is a baka gaiden spinoff
BigDes
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(Today, 05:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by Renegade Frost

F O U L ! ! !

Wait so how does the port work? Undertale shuts your PC off midgame for shenanigans (like that one gamecube game by dennis dyack who's name escapes me right now)

Eternal darkness?
TheSporkWithin
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(Today, 05:18 AM)
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It's like nobody read the first post and they're responding based on their flawed understanding of what "canon" means while only understanding one definition (whether something is accepted as part of a work's "factual" or "verified" background).

For things that would be in the hypothetical video game canon, it goes beyond the "list of great video games," they have to be foundational works that others built upon or were influenced by.

Yoshi's Island is a fantastic game, one of the best on the SNES, but it's not canonical. Super Mario World might not even be, considering so much of its ground was laid in Super Mario Bros. 3 (which absolutely would be canonical).
CambriaRising
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(Today, 05:19 AM)
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Originally Posted by L Thammy

This is the screen when I knew Barkley Shut up and Jam Gaiden was special.
Admiral Woofington
m'Souls, m'lady
(Today, 05:19 AM)
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Originally Posted by sonto340

lol at the people trying to call out the op for not knowing what canon means not knowing what canon means

Apparently I do not think it means what I think it means.
Ruff
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(Today, 05:19 AM)
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This thread sure got derailed by people desperate to make OP feel dumb haha.


I agree with adding this game to the best examples of vidya though.
yanipheonu
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(Today, 05:19 AM)
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To be fair, canon is rarely used to describe the "best of video games." It's more of an art and literature thing.

Given the use of canon as "something canonical to the overall plot", "canonical" might be more confusing than helpful when describing the best of video games.

It's a correct use of the word, but it's an inelegant way to use it.
Last edited by yanipheonu; Today at 05:23 AM.
dragonlife
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(Today, 05:20 AM)
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Originally Posted by Oxymoron

Guys,

can·on1
ˈkanən/Submit
the list of works considered to be permanently established as being of the highest quality.
"Hopkins was firmly established in the canon of English poetry"

Originally Posted by Chobel

TIL

.
Nose Master
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(Today, 05:20 AM)
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In that case: UT is pretty good. Impressive that it's done by one guy. It's a handful of cool gimmicks that the internet latched on to like it was the advent of 3D. The fanbase is reaching sonic levels, though. It's not revolutionary.
MrCunningham
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(Today, 05:20 AM)
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Originally Posted by Fat4all

canonical to what? to itself?

are you using the right word?

It's canonical to EarthBound/ Mother 2 and Touhou Project. Don't ask me how... it just is.


Originally Posted by CambriaRising

This is the screen when I knew Barkley Shut up and Jam Gaiden was special.

It is a sequel to this game:
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
(Today, 05:20 AM)
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I see what the OP means. It's like when they say Shakespeare is a part of the western canon.

Ok OP Undertale can join the canon, but just so you know, I'm also nominating DOA Beach Velleyball.
WhiteRabbitEXE
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(Today, 05:21 AM)
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Originally Posted by yanipheonu

To be fair, canon is rarely used to describe the "best of video games." It's more of an art and literature thing.

Given the use of canon as "something canonical to the overall plot", canonical might be more confusing than helpful when describing video games.

Hence literally the first line of the OP:

"As we all know, various art forms have what they consider to be their canon. If we accept video games as an art, then it too should have its own canon."
DataGhost
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(Today, 05:21 AM)
I think its okay. Not something worthy of being canonical