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Dell no longer accepting Bitcoin as payment? Sad..(Screenshot from 6/8/17 chat) (i.redd.it)

AndreLinoge55redditor for 6 weeks が 投稿

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[–]sreaka 69 ポイント70 ポイント  (77子コメント)

Man, it's a bummer, we are seeing more and more of this, it's not a good sign, took years to get some of these vendors on board.

[–]bjman22 45 ポイント46 ポイント  (67子コメント)

There's no way that a development like this can be spun as being good for bitcoin. This is NOT good for bitcoin and I fear we will see more and more of this.

[–]sreaka 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I agree, it took a long time to get some of these companies to accept Bitcoin, but fees have negated all of those accomplishments. I'm not sure what the answer is, but it sucks.

[–]terr547 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (32子コメント)

Until UASF and SegWit get started, it will become increasingly difficult for large vendors to use bitcoin as currency.

The miners and whales are being incredibly shortsighted in making this so difficult.

[–]bjman22 29 ポイント30 ポイント  (31子コメント)

I support segwit. UASF, however, is a misguided attempt by a minority to force a change that will end only in forking themselves off the network.

It will NOT result in the activation of segwit. An extremely small (though very loud) minority of users with essentially zero hashpower CANNOT force a change onto the bitcoin network.

[–]utu_ [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

you realize if we keep the blocksize small it will cost people hundreds of dollars to open a lightning channel in the very near future right?

we're all going to be forced onto centralized lightning network hubs with segwit.

[–]dellintelbitcoin -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (25子コメント)

In the future everyone will realise this WAS good for bitcoin. Using the blockchain for consumer purchases is wrong in the long run.

[–]jChristopherj 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (20子コメント)

"A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments [of more than $1,000] to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution. [For smaller purchases, one must simply pay a one-time-but-high transaction fee in order to get into a payment channel. Once there they can then get free transactions.]" -Satoshi

[–]urbutt_redditor for 2 weeks 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

-Satoshi

pbuh

[–]dellintelbitcoin 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (11子コメント)

Why do you link this? It seems to back my argument

[–]jChristopherj 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (6子コメント)

The original vision for bitcoin is a lot different than yours.

[–]dellintelbitcoin -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Do you not agree that blockchain is a bad match for consumer payments?

[–]jChristopherj 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

For something as expensive as a computer, hell no.

[–]dellintelbitcoin -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Allright so in 10 years time everyone should be verifying your PC purchase? does not seem legit. Anyway, this is pointless to argue about. Bitcoin is what it is.

[–]jChristopherj 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

All miners should yes. There is no point in running a non mining full node unless you are a business.

"It is possible to verify payments without running a full network node. A user only needs to keep a copy of the block headers of the longest proof-of-work chain, which he can get by querying network nodes until he's convinced he has the longest chain, and obtain the Merkle branch linking the transaction to the block it's timestamped in."

"As such, the verification is reliable as long as honest nodes control the network, but is more vulnerable if the network is overpowered by an attacker. While network nodes can verify transactions for themselves, the simplified method can be fooled by an attacker's fabricated transactions for as long as the attacker can continue to overpower the network."

"Businesses that receive frequent payments will probably still want to run their own nodes for more independent security and quicker verification."

[–]--_-_o_-_-- [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Do you not agree that bitcoin is a superior payment method?

[–]dellintelbitcoin [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Who in their right mind would agree to that?

IM SERIOUS

10 minute confirmation time. clunky adresses, fees go up and down. The transaction system is incredibly crude.

Second layers will make things easier.

[–]alwaysAn0n -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Hey dipshit. Go read the fucking whitepaper right now and don't make another comment about Bitcoin's future until you have done so.

[–]dellintelbitcoin 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

You morons last resort is talking about the whitepaper. I dont even.

[–]ForkiusAurelius [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

So you haven't read the white paper?

Because if you haven't, your opinion is worth nothing.

[–]DesertOTReal 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Source? I don't believe Satoshi ever said that.

[–]jChristopherj 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Lol he didn't, what I added is in brackets. Everything else is the first sentence of the whitepaper.

[–]poorbrokebastard [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

THIS IS NOT IN THE WHITEPAPER

[–]MetaSikander -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Would it be possible that satoshi didn't really understand what he was making? And that we still don't really know what bitcoin is? In the real world?

[–]toddgak 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If the choice was Satoshi's vision or the vision of any of these other clowns, I'd take Satoshi any day.

When you look at the development progress since Satoshi it has all been iterative. Some good iterations mind you, but nothing transformative. A lot of talk mind you, but nothing substantive.

Pls Satoshi come back.

[–]n0mdep 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Just like the white paper says!

[–]Jusdem [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

If you had said that ~4 yrs ago, ppl would have outcasted you for being 'against' bitcoins overall development.

Interesting how times change things.

[–]dellintelbitcoin [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I bet i can find a post from when i first joined reddit where i was saying the same thing as i do now i remember having the conversation. It will take alot of time tho and not really worth it. So yea.

[–]Jusdem [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Well back then when vendors started accepting Bitcoin, it was great for the community, the project, and the market. Nowadays were moving backwards, undoing all that great groundwork.

[–]CONTROLurKEYS 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It was never ready

[–]jmw74 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (6子コメント)

It doesn't really make sense for people to spend bitcoin at places like Dell, when there's no discount compared to using credit cards. Why would you use an irreversible payment when they accept reversible ones (unless that's all you have)?

It's not the least bit surprising that no one is flocking to spend bitcoin at these sites. That'll remain the case until these companies actually view bitcoin as something they want for themselves.

[–]bit79 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Something they want for themselves... For what if there's no practical use?

[–]jmw74 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Why would you assume there's no practical use? Maybe they have some employees who'd very much like to be paid in bitcoin. Maybe they could offer services to their customers who get infected with ransomware. And maybe they can profit simply by holding it.

[–]aaaaaaaarrrrrgh [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

No issues with chargebacks, stolen cards, lower fees on their side.

This is balanced by the relatively high cost to integrate Bitcoin payments (the absolute cost may not be too terrible, but given that very few people use it, the cost per customer is pretty high). Due to this, Bitcoin usually doesn't make sense for merchants unless they're targeting a demographic that doesn't have access to credit cards/really really doesn't want to use credit cards or they're hoping that Bitcoin fanatics will buy from them just because they accept Bitcoin (which happens often enough).

As pointed out, it's pointless for buyers unless there is a discout or they want the (limited) anonymity Bitcoin provides, especially since with all other payment methods the merchant usually pays all fees while with Bitcoin, the buyer usually has to pay at least his own tx fee (and with many payment providers, often a currency conversion premium + a second tx fee to cover the cost). Bitcoin fans who are willing to pay a premium just for the privilege of being able to pay with Bitcoin is what kept this system afloat, and at the same time kept average people from using it.

[–]flyingfences 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's not about getting a discount; it's about building an economy, an ecosystem in which a person can exist and live his life without being subjugated to the legacy financial system.

[–]n0mdep 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Fair analysis. Take the air miles/reward points for now.

For something like Steam, where kids might not have access to credit or debit cards, or cards in certain countries might not be accepted, Bitcoin has a genuine use case.

[–]jmw74 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, I could see those people being willing to pay with no discount, because they really have no alternative.

[–]bbelev [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yes. We need big blocks now. I paid $12 fee the day before, how can you expect merchants to work with bitcoin

[–]jjjuuuslklklk 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (5子コメント)

I think they still want to accept it. They just have a huuuge disconnect between customer service and who ever is in charge of bitcoin implementation.

I ordered a monitor from them, paid in bitcoin, and it turned out they didn't actually have them in stock. I got the email notification, and called the customer service dept (obviously somewhere in India) and they had no idea WTF was going on, they kept asking for the credit card I paid with, and didn't know what credit card bitcoin was.

Went up the chain of command, and even the supervisor's supervisor did not know WTF was going on. They wound up having to send me a check.

So I think until they can fix that disconnect, and be able to implement bitcoin refunds (I think bitpay makes it easy now), then bitcoin is out for dell. WHATEVS DELL, I'll just spend my bitcoin elsewhere until you get your shit together (I still love you, you make the best laptops IMO, please fix this)

[–]fpgaminer 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Honestly, I did not have a good experience setting up BitPay. Their test servers were very unreliable; I never got them to work once during the week or so I attempted integrating with BitPay. Their customer service wasn't too bad; they got back to me within ~24hrs each time I had to contact them. But I never did successfully integrate BitPay into my site. Now with rumors of them being owned by Bitmain/Jihan ... I'm not too keen to try again any time soon.

I haven't tried integrating Coinbase yet. As a user I've never had a good experience paying at a site that offered Coinbase. Coinbase always wanted me to login for some reason. Maybe that's a configuration option and every site that offered Bitcoin payment through Coinbase had it on, but ... it kind of makes offering Bitcoin payment pointless.

The other alternatives I'm aware of, for Bitcoin payment processors, are Braintree and Stripe. It seems like you can enable Bitcoin as option for either of them. That seems pretty nice, since it would also allow a merchant to accept credit cards, so they only have to use one payment processor for everything. I haven't tried to set up either yet. AFAIK Bitcoin is a bit of an experimental feature on both platforms. I'll probably try Stripe next, since I was able to find better information on them accepting Bitcoin and Braintree is owned by PayPal.

Just figured I'd bring this up, because when people complain about companies dropping support for Bitcoin payments or not adding support ... well, the ecosystem is hardly there.

EDIT: I should note that, supposing Stripe's Bitcoin option works well, it actually seems fairly nice. Again, it makes it easier to have one payment processor for both CC and BTC. But on top of that, Stripe at least only charges a 0.8% fee on BTC transactions ($5 max). Compared to, I think it was ~3% + some cents for CC. And no chargebacks, obviously. That's a pretty good incentive for merchants to offer it. So the landscape is perhaps not all doom and gloom. I just wish BitPay hadn't shit the bed.

[–]marijnfs [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yes seams that the payment processor space needs some more competition and time to develop but as you say, the incentives can be very clear (when we fix the fee problems)

[–]greencoinman 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Reminds me of a few years back when this pizza place near me started "accepting" Bitcoin. They even had a "We Accept Bitcoin" sticker on the front door.

First time I went, the waitress told me that "Bitcoin was down at the moment." after asking her co-workers about it.

The second time I went, the waiter just straight up said he didn't know what I was talking about and needed to use cash or card.

After a month they took their sticker down and the owner, who was actually there the third time, said he stopped because "No one was even paying in Bitcoin."

[–]ICheckedOutredditor for 3 months [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

They probably heard that Pizzas were going for 2 for 10,000 Bitcoins... When they found out that they only got a fraction of a bitcoin every now and then, is it worth it?

[–]CONTROLurKEYS 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Surely not many people used it to justify support expenses because you know bitcoiners are the most heavy touch customers to support.

[–]gibson_ 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Why would they at this point? The fees are higher than visa, the wait times are higher than visa, and the customer support is definitely more complicated than visa.

Scaling is THE issue, and all of the pathetic goalpost moving I have seen in this sub over the last few years is just giving up on what Bitcoin can be.

[–]BigBlackHungGuy 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (6子コメント)

I'm sure the usage didnt justify the support cost.

But, Gyft and Egifter both sell Dell giftcards. Egifter gives 2% back in points.

[–]mferslostmymoneyredditor for 3 months 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Fuck Gyft. They make you be a registered Coinbase user in order to buy anything from them.

Egifter seems better, although for some reason you can't use Bitcoin to buy ebay gift cards, or at least doesn't work for me.

[–]fpgaminer -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm pretty sure Egifter started requiring coinbase ... at least I recall getting an email about it some time ago.

[–]mferslostmymoneyredditor for 3 months 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/5ysfus/egifter_has_reversed_their_decision_to_use/

[–]mferslostmymoneyredditor for 3 months 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not as of yesterday. I bought a couple of gcs on there and didn't use Coinbase. I just can't get it to show any way to buy ebay gcs with btc.

[–]MaxTG 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

The nice thing about paying direct is getting the amount just-right. Buying a gift card requires some amount of pre-planning and pre-commitment. Maybe you change your mind, end up spending less, computed the shipping/tax incorrectly.. some of the gift cards can also take up to a day to arrive, so you miss out on sale/coupon deals.

It is definitely easier to pay direct, so I'm sorry to see this option go from yet another merchant.

This same forum celebrated each new addition to mainstream buying once. I miss those days.

[–]chrisrico 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Egifter, at least for the merchants I've used, allows you to buy gift cards in any denomination.

[–]Kinitex 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The domino's are falling

[–]Aussiehash 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

www.dell.com/bitcoin has been removed.

[–]surge3d 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

At boostedboards.com bitcoin has been removed too.

[–]biladelph 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Dell typically abandons any ship they don't understand, mp3 players, phones, tablet/laptop combos so not surprised they got rid of the bitcoin option.

Source: used to work for dell

[–]chalbersma 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The expected effect of killing off Bitcoin as P2P cash in favor of Bitcoin as a "settlement" only network.

[–]mferslostmymoneyredditor for 3 months 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's just not worth the trouble for them when like 0.0001% of their customers use it.

[–]Bitcoin_Bugredditor for 3 days 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Dell can make some headlines again when they restart accepting bitcoin. Win/Win.

[–]baguette_french 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's a shame, I miss overclockers.co.uk the most, but scan is fine for now.

[–]firstfoundation 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (7子コメント)

They're actually helping you not cash out. Hodl.

[–]CONTROLurKEYS 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Well the idea is you spend and rebuy immediately

[–]jmw74 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (5子コメント)

We have no incentive to do that whatsoever.

Just leave your bitcoin where it is, buy computers with your debit/credit card. At least that way, if there's some dispute you have a chance to reverse the charge. With bitcoin you can't. If dell doesn't offer discounts, keep your bitcoin where it is.

Vendors still don't "get" bitcoin. They don't want it. As long as that's the case there will be basically no deal between them and bitcoin holders.

[–]chrisrico 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Just leave your bitcoin where it is, buy computers with your debit/credit card

Some people don't have debit or credit cards, or available balances on them.

[–]jmw74 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I'm sure. But apparently there's not enough of them for these merchants to maintain the infrastructure.

[–]chrisrico 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Ok, but that has nothing to do with your quoted statement.

[–]jmw74 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I should have qualified it, "if you have a debit/credit card" - which I believe the vast majority of the intersection between bitcoin holders and dell customers do.

[–]flyingfences 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Currently the vast majority do.

[–]bajanboost 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Overstock.com and Microsoft.com still accepts Bitcoin

[–]mferslostmymoneyredditor for 3 months 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

That's 2 better than 0 but still a joke.

[–]reddit-is-censoredredditor for 2 weeks 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's a bigger joke when you consider Microsoft only accepts it for "select digital items".

[–]gibson_ 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

And newegg

[–]reddit-is-censoredredditor for 2 weeks 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Actually newegg.ca stopped accepting bitcoin for what it's worth.

[–]zoopz [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I stopped paying with Bitcoin a long time ago. Too slow and too expensive. The few places that still accept are probably not getting any business.

[–]bitillionsredditor for 6 weeks 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

People sending to Bitpay and Coinbase were paying low fees, sounds like, and confusion was the rule of the day. Mr. Todd's clever little fuck-you tool probably played a role. For a payment option that was probably used so rarely, one or two bad apples would definitely have spoiled the batch.

[–]Paulthebitcoinerrredditor for 0 hours -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yeah so did Newegg, I think the problem with the software is the "miner fee's"

[–]fpgaminer 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

AFAIK only Newegg Canada stopped accepting Bitcoin. Newegg.com still is.

[–]chrisrico 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

No, neither Dell or Newegg ever touched bitcoin themselves, they used Bitpay or Coinbase as a payment processor.

[–]bitsteiner 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I just bought something there, not true.

[–]soluvauxhall -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Do you need uncensorable payments to Dell? Didn't think so.

Bitcoin is digital gold, for hodling, not for spending.

[–]flyingfences 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Bitcoin is a currency with aim of supplanting the legacy financial system. The bitcoin community was built out of communities of cypherpunks and cryptoanarchists. If merchants do not accept bitcoin then it fails that goal.

[–]vdogg89 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

What's the point of bitcoin if it has no use? If nobody uses Bitcoin to transact then why have any?

[–]jmw74 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Dell might want uncensorable payments though - no chance of being reversed. But they're not willing to pay for it (offering a discount). So no deal.

[–]sQtWLgK -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

All Bitcoin merchants are scammers

[–]lagofjosephredditor for 3 months -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Boom. Never understood those spenders.

[–]Profetu 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Do you know the meme with Leo? That in the future there will be no need to get out of Bitcoin? How do you want to get there?

[–]SkillPlotredditor for 1 week -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is not a surprise. Everyone has been suggested not to transact BTC until after Aug 1. (or otherwise)

[–]sunshinerag -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Fee market .. Fee Market ..

Digital Gold.. Digital Gold

Cheaper transactions with bitcoin 2.0 ... upgrade now.

[–]budroski -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

No big dam deal! UASF will be like a dam breaking = everything will change, so these things are only temporary. Unless you support Jihan = you see the results and are happier every day that Segwit is delayed!