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US Army whistleblower Chelsea Manning believed she had 'responsibility to the public' when she leaked classified documents (belfasttelegraph.co.uk)

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[–]Lmsaylor 166 ポイント167 ポイント  (36子コメント)

So she did a giant data dump of classified military documents, not even bothering to make sure she didn't release any potentially compromising information? And then bragged about it online to someone she had never met before? Please.

[–]GTFErinyes 57 ポイント58 ポイント  (10子コメント)

THIS!

There was nothing "responsible" to the public about dumping a mass of classified information - much of which was irrelevant to the public interest, mind you (and indeed, potentially harmful).

[–]ChristopherPoontang 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I think it boils down to how much/little you value government transparency. The idea used to be government by the people for the people, but bureaucracies grew and multiplied, and now there is an extreme culture of secrecy within our public institutions. I think she was wrong dump it wholesale without vetting it to protect human lives, but I have to say these leaks have opened many people's eyes to some little-known aspects of our government.

[–]Wonderfart11 -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Yeah she should have given it to the proper authorities so they had time to cover up anything incriminating. Proper channels and so on and so forth right?

[–]superfootbal 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (3子コメント)

When you take a job with a security clearance you agree to not leak information and sign non disclosure agreements. It does not matter if you disagree with something. You can request for documents to become unclassified or go through other channels if you believe something is unconstitutional. Your job is not to be the judge of what is moral or immoral, you work with the documents or information and do not disclose it. If you have a problem with that, then do not get a job with a security clearance. Also if someone does leak something, read through everything and ensure nobody will get harmed when leaking it. Even if you are 100 percent certain something is illegal there are proper channels.

[–]wearywarrior -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Your job is not to be the judge of what is moral or immoral, you work with the documents or information and do not disclose it. If you have a problem with that, then do not get a job with a security clearance.

Be a good dog. Bark when you're told. Sit. Roll over. Good boy!

[–]__jupiter__ [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

You're missing the point. Don't want to be a dog? Don't become one then.

You don't get to complain about legality after signing a non-disclosure agreement.

[–]kamxnaj -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Given what to the authorities? She wasn't leaking something specific.

[–]shitlord-alpha [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

It seemed like she copied everything she could and just gave it to wikileaks. Do you expect people in her position to sift through everything? I feel like this was done in a hurry to get the info out before getting caught. Taking months to read every document is what she relied on wikileaks to do. Of course ideally it wound have been best to leak only the incriminating war crimes and not the tactical or personnel info.

[–]Lmsaylor [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yes I expect people to sift through everything they hand over. If they don't have time, they should just hand over the stuff they consider alarming.

[–]Spectavi 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (13子コメント)

True, the intention may have been noble, but the execution leaves a lot to be desired even from a transparent government supporter like myself. I'm glad Manning is now free, but it upsets me that a much more responsible whistleblower like Snowden is still not free, well at least free on American soil.

Edit: On a related note, Trump had once tweeted that he thought Snowden should be flown back to the US and given a parade, or something to that effect. He has now completely and totally flipped on that, but that probably doesn't surprise anyone at this point.

[–]Roma_Victrix 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Precisely. I don't think either of them deserve the solitary confinement that Manning got for years until Obama had Chelsea moved to another prison, but I'm surprised he commuted her sentence further by having her released. What she (well, he at the time) did was divulge tons of classified info that was potentially harmful to the US and tangential to the stuff we the public really needed to know such as the careless collateral damage of civilians in Iraq.

Snowden, on the other hand, was very strategic and surgical about what he released, did so out of a sense of patriotism, yet here we are ensuring that he stays in Russia thanks to revoking his passport and threatening him with imprisonment. It's ass backwards. Obama should have pardoned Snowden and had Manning sit in jail.

[–]giftedspeaker 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Snowden attempt to barter US intelligence with China. He deserves whatever is coming to him when he is caught.

[–]Roma_Victrix [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I think that's a crock of shit without any evidence (and by that I don't mean someone's blog). I certainly think Manning should have served more time in jail, but Snowden was a genuine whistleblower. As far as I know he only divulged information to the press, NOT a foreign power, and made no attempt to do so either.

[–]GeneralRipper101 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Snowden, on the other hand, was very strategic and surgical about what he released, did so out of a sense of patriotism,

Not really, he has been caught BSing about the info he gave out.

[–]NoRedsAllowed 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Snowden is a straight, cis-white male! That is why.

[–]Non_fidgeter 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (5子コメント)

What does cis-white mean?

[–]Awayfone 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Cis is cisgender meaning your are normal , your gender matches your sex.

[–]Non_fidgeter 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yeah, I thought that was the case but didn't know how it applies to race. Like Rachel Dolezal?

[–]Awayfone 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

You see cis-het sometimes used for sone one who is both cis gender and heterosexual . Cis-white I would say is the same case.

I don't think people yet really see transracial as the same acceptable level as transgender. Some do

[–]browncoat_girl [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Trans racial is a legitimate thing and nothing new. It means someone who was adopted into a family of a different race.

[–]Lmsaylor 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes I agree with you. I'm usually on the side of government transparency, but it's not always that black and white. Information is classified for a reason and I have no respect for someone who releases so much of it without actually reading it. If Manning had limited the release to specific materials she thought deserved public attention (as Snowden did), it would be a whole different story.

I do place some blame on the Army though, for allowing a clearly mentally ill person who was pending discharge to retain their security clearance. She even bragged about how easy it was to access and transmit the data.

[–]Swellswill [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Snowden is living in Russia under Putin's protection. That looks like collusion to me.

[–]MartinTheMorjin 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm not hung up about the morality of it but the part that confuses me is why did she do it? All of the people who needed to know already did. She hung herself out to dry to feed information to people who can't make any actual use out of it.

[–]Rak187 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh, wikileaks got use of it. Their editing of "Collateral murder" is basically what made wikileaks a household name

[–]armo_man 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

My wife's squad leader in the Army said Manning was doing stuff deliberately to fucked shit up and that the data dump was her final hurrah. From how he described Manning, sounds like she is a total head case. How much of that is true or if it even is true I really don't know.

[–]Lmsaylor 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I believe it. Have you read the chat logs between Manning and Adrian Lamo (the guy who eventually ratted on him)? Total head case.

[–]armo_man [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

No I haven't read the logs but I wouldn't be surprised.

[–]captionquirk 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

She sent them to WaPo and NYT, I believe, first. They didn't believe her. And shouldn't Wikileaks share some of the blame for releasing all it unvetted?

[–]_Forgotten -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

and thank you!

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    [–]yupyepyupyep 60 ポイント61 ポイント  (11子コメント)

    I'm glad the court disagreed with Manning.

    [–]SHOW_ME_YOUR_UPDOOTS 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    The court disagreed because it's horseshit.

    [–]AnarchyInAmikkka -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Obama agreed with him. Four years of a thirty-five year sentence, then commuted. People wonder why the U.S. has so much info leaked while China and Russia disappears or executes anyone thinking of turning on their governmrnt.

    [–]OmegamattReally 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (11子コメント)

    Why is this "news?"

    [–]kamxnaj 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (10子コメント)

    She got released.

    [–]OmegamattReally 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (5子コメント)

    Like a month ago.

    [–]kamxnaj 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

    Yep, which is not a long time. And she just did her first interview. So there you go, mystery solved.

    [–]OmegamattReally 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    She shouldn't get attention on her at all. Where are the statements she made upon release that she just wanted to live her new life out of the public eye? This smacks of desperation for closure, like Orenthal with his "If I Did It" shit.

    [–]kamxnaj -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I'm really not interested in talking to you, I answered your question.

    [–]OmegamattReally 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    And yet you continue to do it!

    [–]FourteenFour [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    so when is the book deal?

    [–]Steelwolf73 44 ポイント45 ポイント  (5子コメント)

    "Responsibility to the public" makes sense. I too often feel the urge to leak the armor weaknesses of our tanks to the public....oh wait....no, no I don't. Cause that would be TRAITOROUS!

    [–]KimJongUns-Barber 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (4子コメント)

    Yeah, what Snowden did makes some sense but this is just stupid.

    [–]Steelwolf73 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Thing about Snowden is that, and this is giving him massive benefit of the doubt btw, is that it's almost like he sat down and thought about the worst, most suspicious, and illegal way to be a whistleblower, and then did it

    [–]thecarnivale 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    There is a reason why there are no whistleblower protections for government workers. Think about it. I agree there needs to be government transparency but there is no one doing it. So that begs the question whos supposed to tell us when the government is fucking us? I too have mixed feelings of the info dumps but answer this: Would you rather know you are getting fucked or not getting fucked? I would rather know when my rights are being circumvented.

    [–]Steelwolf73 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    So, there is protection in place, and it's been there since before Snowden did his jaunt to China and Russia. You just have to follow the procedures. He didn't, and divulged a lot of information, including sources inside terrorist organizations, probably getting them killed.

    [–]thecarnivale 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    You speculate a lot. The truth is the government would be all about telling us that he got someone killed and you come at this with "probably getting them killed." I call BS on that part. Oh and the second BS statement. "there are protections in place..." IF you think for a minute the government is going to tattle on themselves, then you forgot if it wasnt for Snowden, you wouldnt have the info or the "protections." The "protections" you speak of are for warm fuzzies. Since our government drug us into a war of WMD claims, spending trillions of wasted dollars, I dont trust them to keep my dog alive.

    [–]PM_ME_UR_NSFW_SELFIE 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    These comments are going to be a shit show...

    [–]louderstill 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    There is nothing responsible about a massive classified data dump with no vetting of its contents.

    [–]notevenapro 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    You did your time and got lucky with a pardon, now go away

    [–]Shrek_cultist 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Bullshit, she had no idea what she was even doing. She's no hero like Snowden (who genuinely deserves praise), just an idiot.

    [–]scubasteve0921 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    problem is they all think this. so they'll keep doing it unfortunately

    [–]Yo_mamas_dildo 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    He had no responsibility to anyone buy the US Army. If something egregious was happening then maybe he should have shared that limited information but not with an indiscriminate dump of classified documents.

    [–]fear254 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (54子コメント)

    A video that he leaked of a helicopter shooting civilians. https://youtu.be/5rXPrfnU3G0

    [–]SHOW_ME_YOUR_UPDOOTS 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (47子コメント)

    The context being the US personnel didn't realize they were civilians, and misidentified a camera as a weapon. The military shouldn't have tried to cover the incident up, but the men in the helicopter weren't out to murder a bunch of innocent people that day.

    [–]NoRedsAllowed 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (6子コメント)

    There were weapons there. Watch the video. AKs, RPGs and more in the video all carried by the "civilians"

    [–]cheerstocrime 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (7子コメント)

    That context doesn't exactly fill me with confidence in the people from the video.

    [–]SHOW_ME_YOUR_UPDOOTS 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (6子コメント)

    I mean, if you think you could do better, the military is always looking for competent people to shave their heads and joint he army or what have you.

    We go to war with the army we have. If you don't like that, don't vote for people who send the army to war over bullshit.

    [–]myrddyna -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    don't vote for people who send the army to war over bullshit.

    Bush sent us into Iraq because they wanted Kuwait's oil. Bush 2 sent us in over a fucking lie.

    People were clamoring for that fucking war in 2003 because if you were anti-war, you were pro terrorist. That admin pushed for that war so hard that they outright lied to the world, and changed the reason they were invading three fucking times before they went in.

    Then it was a money grab shit show. No one voted for that shit, it was thrust upon the world by men who had power, and there it remains, spilling out into the surrounding region, where it will eat away for the rest of our lives.

    [–]SHOW_ME_YOUR_UPDOOTS 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Congress gave Bush the authority to do what he did in Iraq. That's why Clinton's yes vote was more than just a "mistake" (her words).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Resolution

    [–]cheerstocrime -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    I don't vote for people who send the army to war over bullshit. At least not intentionally. I certainly don't think that I could do better than anyone in the military, but I definitely would not have tried to cover that shit up.

    Whether or not these guys didn't thoroughly identify their targets, or were given bad Intel from someone else responsible for that I don't know, but like I said the context doesn't fill me with confidence. I don't automatically hate them, though. I feel like that's pretty reasonable.

    [–]SHOW_ME_YOUR_UPDOOTS 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Eh, yeah. It was a fuckup.

    The coverup though, people should have gone to jail for that shit, IMHO.

    [–]Brucekillfist 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I was under the impression they were only in the air because a convoy had taken fire like an hour before. If this is the video I'm thinking of, at the time of watching it I was 100% confident that guy with the camera was holding an RPG tube.

    [–]fear254 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Shoot first ask questions later is what happend

    [–]SHOW_ME_YOUR_UPDOOTS 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Yeah, aircrews should wait to be fired at with what they believe to be an anti aircraft weapon, while in a war zone, just to be sure.

    [–]FrostBittenSalsa 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    That's where you're completely wrong kiddo

    [–]51Bootwearer 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    At 3:45 the people center screen are carrying automatic weapons and at least one as an RPG.

    The claimed camera men look like they actually are carrying cameras, but it's impossible to tell and they are in a crowd full of fighters.

    At the very least they were filming an attack on American service members while in the group that was attacking them.

    Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

    [–]Synteka [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    Civies sadly don't realize this. Any service member who has gone through any ground combat training instantly recognizes weapons in the video. I don't doubt that civilians were part of their group but hasn't it been confirmed that the group of armed insurgents were confirmed to having attacked that advancing group of US soldiers?

    [–]51Bootwearer [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    hasn't it been confirmed that the group of armed insurgents were confirmed to having attacked that advancing group of US soldiers?

    I honestly don't know.

    They could have been attacking, they could have been guards for the camera force, they could have just been dudes with guns following a group of people.

    That doesn't really matter.

    What matters is what they appeared to be, and they appeared to be insurgents. They had weapons, they pointed something that could have been a weapon towards a group of Americans in an active engagement, and they died for it.

    I think people get stuck in the mud on the details of their intent, when their intent doesn't fucking matter one bit.

    They did everything that looked like attacking, so they were attacked. That's it and story ends.

    Monday morning quarterback is second guessing decisions when you assume the active player has all of the information, it's been over a decade for this instance and we still only know at the very least that a bunch of people with weapons acted like attackers. Every time you look at this, it becomes clearer and clearer that the decision to shoot was the correct one.

    Anything after that isn't particularly important.

    [–]NoRedsAllowed 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Those were all terrorists. They had AKs and RPGs and were ready to ambush coalition forces.

    コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

      [–]Aquaman5000 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Reminds me of that old expression: the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

      Note: I'm not saying she's literally going to hell. It's just an expression.

      [–]Awayfone 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Manning won't say anything different than she thought that when he leaked data. Obviously

      [–]SlimmerChewbacca 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      A true American hero in a lot of people's eyes.

      [–]ClubsBabySeal 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Including the diplomatic emails? Fuck that asshole, diplomacy should not be fucked with.

      [–]wirbul [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

      Sure are a lot of shills on Reddit these days...

      [–]EmperorTree [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

      She just wanted some attention. I mean look at her! Who the fuck would fuck that thing?

      [–]311polo 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      What bull crap. The ends don't justify the means. What he did was completely illegal. Zero sympathy here.

      [–]Sarahneth -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (16子コメント)

      ITT a bunch of transphobes intentionally call Chelsea Manning a guy, even though she's a girl.

      [–]Txcook210 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (6子コメント)

      Caitlyn jenner didn't win Olympic medals. Bruce did. Chelsea manning didn't leak documents. Chelsea manning didn't dress/show up to the court martial. Chelsea didn't serve time at an all female prison..bradley stood in court, in male attire. Bradley was found guilty. Bradley spent time in an all male brig. Being transphobic mean someone is afraid of trans people. That's not the case here. We're just using the name of the individual who was found guilty of crimes, in this case.

      [–]illucide 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      It's a t_d brigade.

      Report the mods to the admins because they are refusing to enforce the posting rules.

      [–]JustGlassin -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (6子コメント)

      I'm glad her sentence was commuted.

      [–]work_q31 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (7子コメント)

      Bradley leaked the documents.

      [–]illucide 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (4子コメント)

      No one disputes that. She doesn't either.

      Clemency is not a pardon.

      [–]OmegamattReally 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

      I think OP was trying to say that the headline should read "Bradley Manning," since that was his name at the time. However, if the article is about something Chelsea has said recently, then it's more appropriate to use her current name.

      コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

        [–]larrymoencurly 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        But if you're in the military you can't be the one to decide what should and should not be released to the public. That's not to say that the military classifies way, way too much stuff.

        [–]Tepidme 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Brady was not fit to be around classified info at the time of the leaks, he was obviously to us now, dealing with personal issues. The release of the collateral damage video was not irresponsible though, the shit show that followed with the huge dump could have been done more responsibly though. I bet it was the biggest catalyst for the "ending " of the ground war though....

        [–]Trouble_Starter -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Fuck this dude, he is and will always be a a piece of shit......

        [–]ayang09 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        That guy is pretty smart to use the whole transgender thing to gather public support. Other people may still be rotting in jail for leaking classified info.

        [–]kbouser -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

        It is always a good society when individuals like her have the freedom to exercise their conscience. Right or wrong (courts ruled it as wrong in this case) is not up for debate.

        [–]Uncle_Reemus 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        If courts rule on an issue it most definitely is up for debate!!!

        [–]mattstervalster123 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        She should be punished accordingly.

        [–]Vahlir -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        compare this to the other asshole who changed her name to Reality Winner and this person who changed their sex and you have to wonder if they're doing things for attention or because they have identity crisis or something else going on in their past or their head. I imagine having a hard time feeling comfortable with my birth sex would be a source of constant frustration and even pain, I remember how much hormones fucked with me when I was a teen. Even so I wonder how much of it is for attention or other reasons.

        [–]Tank3875 -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        She did have that responsibility. She should have been more selective in what she released though, limiting it to the matters which were ethically wrong.

        [–]Acrimony01 -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Cluster B. That is all.

        コメントをもっと表示する (11 返事)