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Subreddit Meta[Meta] Overmoderation: Almost 60% of all submissions over the last 24 hours have been removed by the mods. (self.Competitiveoverwatch)

YearHandPia が 投稿

It's become apparent over the last few weeks that this sub is overmoderated, but I wasn't aware how overmoderated until tonight. Using mod's comment histories I was able to see how many posts they had each removed. Over the last 24 hours the mods have removed 55/102 posts... over half of all submissions.

Now I appreciate good moderation, but this is ridiculous. I won't call anyone out here, but there seems to be particular mods who delete far more posts than others. I think for the most part the mods do a good job, but it's clear that there is a disconnect between what the mods want this sub to be and what the users want this sub to be. It may be prudent to discuss this in some capacity.

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[–]SesorderehtMercy Flex[M] [スコア非表示] stickied comment (59子コメント)

Post is approved.

While we're here I'd like to also encourage users to review our rules for the subreddit and point out any of the rules that you feel like are a bit too vague or could simply use a bit more explanation so as to minimise the amount of misunderstandings between the users and moderators when a post is in violation.

Rules that you feel like could be interpreted in different ways, or if you've experienced having a post removed but felt like you were within limits, feel free to share your experiences so we might be able to iron these things out.

Hopefully we can get some quality discussion in this thread.

Cheers.

[–]Overswagulation 422 ポイント423 ポイント  (47子コメント)

Maybe they're just shitty threads? I know a ton of the deleted threads are just tilted idiots using this sub as their personal diary. No one gives a shit about trash posts like that.

[–]osuVocal 70 ポイント71 ポイント  (23子コメント)

Most of those probably were low effort shitposts and imo even those highlights are exactly that but the issue is how they're not consistent at all with what they're removing.

[–]LightNTheAddict 59 ポイント60 ポイント  (13子コメント)

That was my issue, they remove text posts often containing questions but all these pro highlights that offer absolutely nothing and generates zero valuable conversation other than generic versions of "nutty." What is there to learn from Haksal running out of a door and reflecting?

[–]HandsomeHodge 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (5子コメント)

What is there to learn from Haksal running out of a door and reflecting?

Ummm... don't throw piss jars into deflects unless you wanna get wiped? Thats all I got.

[–]PM_ME_CUTE_GIRLS_PLZ 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (3子コメント)

If you look closely, the piss jar wasn't deflected. It was a friendly piss jar.

[–]HandsomeHodge 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Why was that even clipped then? All he deflected was some lucio shots and a burst from soldier.

[–]PM_ME_CUTE_GIRLS_PLZ 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Hence the "what is to learn from hacksaw deflecting"

[–]HandsomeHodge 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

lol yea I got it the first time. Just made a joke about the only decent thing that happened, but apparently that wasn't even him.

[–]BattleBull 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Advice unclear, I throw my Jarate at an enemy Pyro and now I'm soaked. Send help.

[–]_Iroha 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Generally, /r/OverwatchUniversity is where more informational topics are

[–]LightNTheAddict 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I would expect more meta and game balance discussion here and more niche questions than "how do I raise my accuracy." When I hear /r/competitiveoverwatch I don't think of a first page filled with highlights that offer zero value to conversation or the subreddit.

[–]kanated -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

This sub is about competitive overwatch. Thats it. Highlights aren't against the rules. If you want purely educational posts go to /r/overwatchuniversity

[–]LightNTheAddict 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm well aware of that. I disagree with the subs purpose extending into shitty pro plays, that's just my opinion. I think they're a waste of space on the front page and provide zero value to anybody.

[–]SpriteGuy_000Numbers Dad[M] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

So do you want us to be a discussion-only subreddit, or do you think there's a happy medium somewhere?

[–]LightNTheAddict 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Definitely a happy-medium! I'm not trying to say that every professional clip doesn't provide information, but a lot of it is fragging. Personal anecdote aside even I've learned from some of the clips posted. Those clips I learn from are 99% of the time full point holds by a team and not just a frag clip. In particular, it was an impressive defensive dive hold on Hanamura most recently. I believe there is much to learn from pro clips, just not something that would belong in a frag compilation.

[–]SpriteGuy_000Numbers Dad[M] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (5子コメント)

You linked to a comment, but not an actual post. Do you have a link to the post in question?

[–]osuVocal 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I don't have a link to the post in question but I guess you could check haffi's post history.

[–]SpriteGuy_000Numbers Dad[M] 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Haffi has no submitted posts in his history; that's why I was curious if you knew.

u/hafficool, care to enlighten us?

[–]ncrazy235 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

The comment was on the clip of Soon flicking a pulse bomb onto an ulting soldier. Haffi was saying that the clip was good but he was confused why that clip was allowed and his clip of a 6k Dva bomb was removed by the mods.

[–]SpriteGuy_000Numbers Dad[M] 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yes, and I'm asking a link to the 6k DVa clip thread. I see no thread in his history, and no removal of it in our moderation log.

[–]hafficool 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I didn't post it myself i just know it got removed, I'll try to find it in my history

コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

    [–]Komatik 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    So the Mercy thread...?

    [–]iCOLORBLIND 53 ポイント54 ポイント  (19子コメント)

    My thread about mei's ult discharge when she dies vs. genjis ult discharge when he dies got deleted after being on front page with ~200 comments. And I don't think that discussion is shitty.

    edit: just found it . Check the stickied comment...

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/5ysgyy/genji_ults_1_sec_later_diesult_doesnt_go_off_has/

    [–]jnxu 98 ポイント99 ポイント  (6子コメント)

    Dude that title is aids no wonder it got removed.

    [–]GannonHJ 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    /r/titlegore

    [–]Argos_ow 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Indeed, I think that it may have been that alone that got the mods. And when did 108 comments become ~200? I mean, I round up to. But that's a bit much methinks.

    [–]jlobes 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Well that's why it got deleted, it had ~0 comments =P

    [–]shiftup72 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    is that enough to remove a post?

    [–]jnxu 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I'm not sure but if I saw it on my front page I'd probably just press hide

    [–]TimeWarden17 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (9子コメント)

    As the mod post said, it was removed for being a complaint post. You aren't discussing the meta game (at least as far as the title reads) of ults (cast vs. condition), but rather complaining about a specific case. Not only that, but a case that is not replicatable, as Mei is one of the few cast ults guaranteed to go off. If Mei is killed while casting her ult, she retains charge. If snowball lands, her out goes off. In fact, the only way to lose charge is if snowball is eaten by DVa or reflected onto your own team.

    [–]cool_ranch_fucker 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (8子コメント)

    actually there was (is?) a bug where mei loses all ult charge and the ult doesnt go off

    [–]TimeWarden17 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (7子コメント)

    Under what conditions?

    [–]cool_ranch_fucker 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (6子コメント)

    whoops forgot to mention the condition was that if you ulted and died soon after the ult would completely disappear. i dont know if it was fixed but it happened in season 4 i know.

    [–]HaMx_Platypus 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    They probably didnt even read the body and deleted based on the title

    [–]lamp4321unnecessarily long text that you dont need to read but you are 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I think you could have gone for a better title in all honesty

    [–]ace_of_sppades 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    If you check out /new you would see that that number of posts makes perfect sense.

    [–]ESLsucksMasters scrub 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I won't even lie my favorite past time is flaming idiots for tilting and posting dumb stuff. Lowkey makes me sad admins removed them

    [–]AlyoshaVdeserving of bronze 122 ポイント123 ポイント  (23子コメント)

    That doesn't mean it's overmoderated. All of those posts could be off-topic/rule violations.

    [–]YearHandPia[S] -45 ポイント-44 ポイント  (22子コメント)

    Yeah that's totally true, but like 40/55 removals were all from 2 people. We can't see what it is because it was removed, but I'm willing to bet not all of it had to be.

    [–]Yiskaout 61 ポイント62 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    You'd be surprised. I've seen threads pop up here and there where the OP decries this issue of overmoderation of their post on the main sub and without fail their content submissions are not only rule violations but inane drivel.

    [–]kanated 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    People always complain about overmoderation even when thats the only thing preventing a sub from turning into a shithole.

    [–]OMGitsLunaa 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I moderate for a (now fairly small) sub. About a year ago people were complaining about low quality posts, so us mods became more strict. Then every day for 2 weeks there were threads entitled "nazi mods are ruining this sub!!!". People were even sending some mods death threats. Then once we toned the moderation back again, people went right back to complaining about post quality.

    I think the same would happen to this sub. If they relaxed moderation, we would just be complaining about post quality, and this would turn into a 2nd r/overwatch

    [–]BattleBull 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I used to mod a regional tf2 subreddit, and the amount of racist, angry, off topic, even spam bot stuff you can get a day is intense.

    I imagine for a bigger sub like this 60% could be off rule, duplicate, or spam on a particular bad day no doubt.

    [–]zeflyingtoaster 37 ポイント38 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I don't get why this is a big deal. Were you expecting all the mods to have the same job? Maybe those two are the designated mod queue wranglers? If anything I think there are certain time periods with not enough moderation, where obvious shitposts complaining about ELO hell and DAE get bad teammates stay up for several hours.

    [–]OWSylvanPeak 4200; Support main 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    This, exactly. I've been on a few mod teams in my day (mostly discords/forums/whatever) and most of the time, you'll have a few people that are consistently on "active duty" -- removing posts, banning users, etc. -- and the rest who are on break/mostly do work behind the scenes. It's just more efficient than having eight people all watching the mod queue all the time, plus it allows people who've been doing that for a few weeks on end to safely break for a bit.

    Mods are people too, and they have real-life obligations outside of moderating. This is almost always a secondary job for them, and treating it as such is one of the best ways to run an efficient community.

    [–]tmtm123 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I scroll through the new posts or rising from time to time and a lot of it is people asking simple questions like "what setting is this?" or "how do you change crosshair?" or "what sens do I use?" Or it can be some obvious tips like "you can break mei ice wall!" or stuff like that.

    I'm guessing a lot of these get deleted.

    [–]SpriteGuy_000Numbers Dad[M] 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (9子コメント)

    but like 40/55 removals were all from 2 people.

    Why is this an issue for you?

    [–]greg19735 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (8子コメント)

    It does mean that a few things could be happening"

    1) those 2 more are more active. (at that time of day perhaps)

    2) those 2 more are more strict.

    3) The mods are not consistent in their application and/or understanding of the rules.

    [–]kigabit 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    1 could also be (like you imply) that the subreddit is more active at the same time those two are most active.

    [–]ReganDryke 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    The reason is most likely activity.

    For example /r/leagueoflegends top 5 most active mod generally represent between 55 and 70% of all the logged human mod action during a month (with a all time high of 85%)

    During the longest time and until recently the most active mod constantly used to hover around 25% of the total human mod actions. (All time high being 57.5% human mod actions).

    Considering this subreddit is much more smaller than /r/lol, in size, activity and mod team, it isn't surprising to see it go up to that extent.

    [–]TrumpsYugeBabyHands 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

    You fail to mention any possibility that the submitters didn't meet subreddit guidelines.

    [–]greg19735 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (4子コメント)

    no, that falls under 1) in which the mods are more active.

    I'm not saying ALL of those are happening. but one of them probably is.

    [–]ace_of_sppades 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Yeah that's totally true, but like 40/55 removals were all from 2 people.

    And days aren't exactly 24 hours long. That's not really relevant information.

    [–]IronCrown 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Seems like you never moderated something. If you want to keeps something (forum/subreddit/whatever) on topic and within rules, 90% of it's content has to be removed.

    [–]mikamitcha 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Ceddit uses Reddit's API to have an uncensored history of comments. It doesn't have every single deleted item, but it has a lot. If you want to make a case, that might be a good place to start.

    [–]Winterrrrr 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Who cares if 2 mods did most of the removing? Why exactly is that an issue?

    [–]somethingoddgoingon 62 ポイント63 ポイント  (20子コメント)

    The amount doesn't mean much if we don't know what type of posts were removed, that's all that matters imo.

    [–]mykeedee 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Depends, if they're Self posts we have no idea what was in them.

    コメントをもっと表示する (19 返事)

      [–]Sygmaelle 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      "insane this by ..." "insane that by" ... seriously. if people want a showroom, make a subreddit for it

      [–]Komatik 53 ポイント54 ポイント  (16子コメント)

      One thing I find gets deleted without fail because rules but would be good for the sub are conversation starters. I've seen several good threads that grew into lively, quality discussions binned because the OP wasn't a university thesis on something but was just a short observation on something that gave people a place to talk about something.

      Killing those threads is decidedly harmful to the community, IMO. Even if the OP wasn't "worthy", the thread was. Sometimes the main contribution that's needed is to set up a place to talk about something. People with opinions will take care of the rest.

      It's even worse when writing a long rant means diarrhea wells like the Mercy thread are allowed to stay. 80% of that thread was just pointless inane whining and people propping their own egos.

      [–]paulendri 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Basically this. We need the ability to have more open conversation starters and see where they go. Then /if/ they go off the rails they can get axed imo :/

      [–]Chawana64 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Agreed for the most part.

      I've seen some great threads that were deleted for low effort content simply because the OP didn't write a wall of text. This is probably the only place I can 100% say this sub is overmoderated.

      [–]SesorderehtMercy Flex[M] 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (9子コメント)

      I agree. The Weekly Discussion Megathread was supposed to be where any and all light, quick, or small topics for discussion could go should any user feel like it didn't quite deserve a whole submission. My thought was that it'd be something like a launching pad for discussion and anything that really picks up could be taken into a full submission.

      Unfortunately the Weekly Discussion Megathread saw pretty pitiful activity, at least compared to the Weekly Advice Megathread which pulled comments in the hundreds.

      Given that we've been planning on combining the two threads to create something like a catch all for topics that don't quite need a submission. Anyone with a quick question like schedules of tournaments or whatever happened to X pro player could fit in. On the frequency I don't know if Weekly is too long or Daily is too frequent.

      Thoughts on this would be appreciated!

      On a side note, one of the other subs I visit has a "Daily Question Megathread" which has different focuses of discussion on certain days but isn't limited to that. Another thing I've been mulling over.

      [–]Viridz 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Megathreads are terrible for discussion. Comments get hidden for being too deep into a conversation, and fewer perspectives get shown as a reply to a single top-level comment. Visibility of stickied posts is already poor compared to a regular submission.

      I'm all for the advice megathread because all it is is a good net for all the posts that really belong on /r/overwatchuniversity. But in-depth discussions are really the most valuable thing this subreddit offers to the community, and is really why I keep coming back. I certainly don't do it for the wannabe PotG highlights that came off some twitch channel. Why don't we have a megathread for that garbage instead?

      The great thing about discussion-based submissions is that even a really crappy OP can produce fantastic discussion simply because a lot more people read a submission than post a submission. The upvote and downvote buttons are also totally sufficient for filtering out discussions people don't want to be having.

      In my opinion, I'd rather see the rules on discussion posts be severely loosened as a test to see if the subreddit can handle a little self-moderation on it. Conversely the rules on highlights are far too lax.

      [–]Helmic 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Why don't we have a megathread for that garbage instead?

      Exactly. I get a lot more out of text posts that actually discuss the game in a competitive environment than I do seeing "/r/Overwatch but everyone's saying 'literally who'". I don't care if OP isn't famous, quality posts and discussions should stand on their own.

      The celebrity thing should only matter if the post would normally be too shit for our standards, and even then it's notable because of who's saying it rather than the content itself. We're not here to be anyone's PR team, they can share their clips on /r/Overwatch if they think it's so good.

      [–]Komatik 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Agreed wrt megathreads.

      [–]Fordeka 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I think megathreads like that only work when they are stickied. The Weekly Discussion Megathread doesn't even have a shortcut on the header- and you don't even see buttons on the header if you have the subreddit CSS disabled. There's no point posting discussion in a thread that has no visability.

      [–]AngelicMayhem 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (3子コメント)

      Weekly is too long in my opinion. As a mobile user mass threads like that become a chore to go through. I personally think a discussion tag should be introduced where people can make a small post on something asking for discussion about it. I would also include new rules about limiting the amount of these posts a week per user. 2 or so a week per user should be fine. I would also have rules limiting what can be discussed. You definitely dont want a discussion thread on whether genji or mercy have the best butt while ulting.

      [–]SpriteGuy_000Numbers Dad[M] 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      I would also include new rules about limiting the amount of these posts a week per user. 2 or so a week per user should be fine.

      There's no way to automate that process, and would manually require a extreme amount of extra work on the mod team.

      You definitely dont want a discussion thread on whether genji or mercy have the best butt while ulting.

      That's an excessive example, as posts like that would get removed already.

      [–]AngelicMayhem 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I know its an excessive example and its just a suggestion. I dont have any experience so I can only say what would feel right.

      Edit: Another suggestion that could help is to have a mod that overlooks the weekly discussion thread and posts links in the main post to comments that start specific discussion. This would make browsing those threads much better on mobile.

      [–]FulyBaked 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      If I remember correctly the globaloffensivetrade sub had it automated so that you could only post 2 trades a day, I dont know if that could work for this though

      [–]GannonHJ 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Megathreads are trash and are a poor excuse. It's the equivalent to having a trash cash labeled "complaints" and telling someone they can put their complaints in that box.

      Your post was deleted, post in the megathread.

      How long until we realize that no one uses these megathreads and they're trash for discussion?

      [–]RedThragtusk 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      This

      [–]Apes_Will_RiseGods marry me please 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      That's the third time in this topic I see someone referring to this Mercy post, got a link?

      [–]cool_ranch_fucker 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      i want more text posts and less twitch clip links. thats what makes /r/ssbm so good

      [–]rqr- 64 ポイント65 ポイント  (17子コメント)

      I've said it before and I'm gonna say it again: the whole rule on "witch hunting" is so subjective that it can't lead to consistent results in moderation.

      The Mendo vs ZP beef was deemed worthy of this sub because it added "constructive discussions" and shed light onto a situation very few were aware of before... Obviously, some people will agree with this, others will disagree. But the point is that...

      The thread about a pro (who it's still against the rules to name) throwing in his comp games was deleted for being witch hunting. I'd argue that the witch had successfully hunted itself there. This player brought it onto himself to throw so hard while streaming and he deserves to be exposed. People should know about his attitude and make an opinion for themselves whether they care about it or not.

      Some people think which hunting means looking very hard into any clues we have to expose someone about something they may or may not have done (Surefour accused of aimlocking was the epitome of that). Some others seem to believe it is just talking about someone displaying negative behavior. This, imo, has a place on this sub. If I'm to support a pro team, I'd like to know if one of their player is displaying negative behavior and I should be able to make up my own mind about him being a dirtbag or not.

      TLDR: mods, make up your goddamn mind about what "witch hunting" means and consistently moderate controversial threads instead of leaving it up to the first-mod-who-sees-the-thread's interpretation.

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            [–]InspireDespair 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            The stream title literally had the word "trolling" so it wasn't a matter of interpretation. The player himself knew what he was doing and didn't care about publicly displaying it and in fact decided to stream his POV.

            So if it's not up for interpretation that he is throwing and it's being made public by that player who thinks it's hilarious, why is it unable to be publicly discussed?

            [–]varateshh 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Iirc that thread slipped through because it had some discussion about roster changes.

            [–]ryuu_zer0 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            I agree with you completely. If a pro is publicly exhibiting bad behavior it definitely deserves a place here, even from a journalistic standpoint. Think about all the media coverage traditional athletes get when they do something questionable.

            Witchhunting is accusing someone of doing something with little to no conclusive evidence in an attempt to undermine their reputation. If the pro isn't even trying to hide that he's throwing matches, I don't see why we shouldn't be allowed to discuss that on this sub.

            [–][削除されました]  (3子コメント)

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              [–]chosenone1242 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

              The thread about a pro (who it's still against the rules to name) throwing in his comp games was deleted for being witch hunting.

              He mentions "witch hunting" 4 times in his comment. How can it not be clear?

              [–]SiKnSiN -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              I didn't see that. This post I replied to has been edited from the original, and just noticed the name of the pro being removed.

              [–]chosenone1242 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Oh ok, then I understand!

              [–]leoben1987 55 ポイント56 ポイント  (16子コメント)

              Overmoderated? If anything it's undermoderated. As another user wisely stated, the front page of the subreddit is essentially r/Overwatch but with Seagull clips instead of videos of Bronze randos. The quality of the content here is already quite low, it doesn't need to be degraded further by having even more relaxed posting standards.

              [–]I_GIVE_ROADHOG_TIPS[M] 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              I'd have to agree with this. We're having some internal discussion about Rule #8 right now. When we reach a decision, we'll have a big announcement about it. I think it will help make things a lot more transparent.

              [–]greg19735 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (12子コメント)

              I think it's more that it's not consistently moderated. WHich is possibly a misunderstanding of rules, possibly an overzealous mod or two, or perhaps just the more strict mods are more active

              [–]1245789012457890 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              Maybe having the community moderate the content may lead to better quality. Let the market decide.

              [–]leoben1987 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Remember 10 years ago, when we let the banks regulate themselves and they destroyed the global economy? Good times.

              [–]rikagwen 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              So today showed pretty clearly that the moderators in this sub don't know what a normal moderator actually does.

              A moderator tries to keep the discussion civil and enforce some basic rules. A moderator does not try to censor a certain topic because they don't like it.

              Even large subreddits like r/leagueoflegends allow these discussion and they have way more stuff to moderate. You should not censor discussions you should remove witchhunts, racism (etc) and low quality posts or posts that have nothing to do with competitive overwatch.

              Both posts your removed were not against the rules and you still removed them because you can? A lot of people disagreed with your first decision and you still removed the second thread too.

              You really need to tone it down or this subreddit is pointless in my opinion.

              [–]MangoMiasma 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              You obviously haven't spent much time on reddit if you think the majority of posts in any subreddit are worth reading

              [–]IronCrown 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Take a look over at /r/CompetitiveHS/ the % of post removed has been even higher in the past. If you want to keep a big sub (100k holy shit) on topic and within the given rules, you'll have to remove many posts. That some mods remove more post than other is given since they proably have diffrent priorities.

              [–]wotugondo 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              I think for the most part the mods do a good job, but it's clear that there is a disconnect between what the mods want this sub to be and what the users want this sub to be.

              I would disagree. The discontent is mostly because some people who have had their posts removed are publicly complaining about it. It's a minority of a minority. I'm on this subreddit a lot while at work and I often filter by new threads, and the majority I see are removed for good reason.

              The sub is what it is because we have stringent rules in place designed to prevent the posts of poor quality from flooding the sub. In order to ensure this remains an intersection for fans of competitive/professional OW as well as professional players and orgs, there have to be standards. In the long run, there will of course be inconsistency. If the standard we apply is quality, and moderators need to themselves determine what is and isn't a quality post/highlight intro/etc., there will necessarily be inconsistency.

              What we have is the best possible way of maintaining an open forum for discussion of high quality. Inconsistency is the price we pay for quality. Sometimes we have mod-approved threads where people discuss how much they hate Sinatraa without any evidence; sometimes we have mods delete threads with links to Gale's comments on women for witch-hunting.

              The best we can hope for is appealing on a case-by-case basis. But an overhaul of moderation style, or of the rules, is something I'm certainly against.

              [–]niboosmik 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              dear mods, thank you for the prompt shutdowns to all of my 5 word posts along the lines of "dang old gengu", "dang old team chat tf", "dang old elo hell." also I'm Boomhauer

              [–]cool_ranch_fucker 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              please dont c*ss on my website

              [–]kreedzsenpai 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              You say that like it's a bad thing

              [–]murtiC74 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              There has been an influx of low effort content recently, so I am glad that the mods take action and keep this place clean

              [–]SvPaass 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Its quite easy to get to that number. During the TakeTV event for example: Kaiser hit that nutty prediction charge and instantly 7 clips of it got posted. (Althought this didnt happen in the last 24 hours i assume you get the point) There also is a lot of low effort content being posted on this sub, last night for example someone posted a two month old tweet from Rogue that has nothing to do with current events. I look at the new page frequently and so far i havent seen a post get deleted that didnt deserve it

              [–]plspirit2855 peak 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (15子コメント)

              was it clips of pros? (basically the equivalent to potg clips of amateurs on /r/overwatch)

              [–]slowmosloth 27 ポイント28 ポイント  (8子コメント)

              The front page of this sub has been quite cluttered with highlight clips recently. I'm not sure of your guys' opinions are on this, but I wouldn't want this subreddit to become like the main one where it's just highlight clips, and the only difference is that the person playing is a pro.

              [–]Jawoll[M,🍰] 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              The recent influx of highlight clips is most likely due to Overwatch Contenders season 0 where hundreds of teams played simultaneously and many of the players had their own streams going.

              Highlight posts are usually posted during/after tournaments and we certainly encourage people to make them. The unusual amount that we saw last weekend (and probably this weekend as well) should be an exception.

              [–]Reddit-Pro 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              I agree. I would only accept highlight clips that teach some interesting strats and techniques I didn't know about and maybe some very impactful and hype tournament plays.

              The clips I've been seeing recently have just been pros being pros. They can be impressive plays sure, but when the frontpage is starting to look like /r/overwatch, it's time to stop.

              [–]ace_of_sppades 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              I think clips from tournaments should be straight up allowed but there should be more strict ruling on clips from streams.

              [–]osuVocal 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              The issue with that is the inconsistency they have when moderating.

              [–]plspirit2855 peak 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              me neither

              [–]QueenOfStarsVarda 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              K really dknt give a shit about clips, I wish the mods did more about that or just have a thread spwcifically for those

              [–]zelnoth 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              Well there's some difference in the quality of the POTG as well. A lot of the plays on /r/overwatch are just variations of "I got a 4k with my ulti vs bronze players"

              But I completely agree that most of the front page should not be highlight clips from pro games or streams.

              [–]OWTalvi 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              And the pro ones are "I got a team wipe with my smurf" against a bunch of Plats. AKA Drafran smurfing, wrecking someone 1v1, and recording it so he can laugh hysterically at it. Ho ho funny.

              [–]OWTalvi 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (5子コメント)

              So maybe we need a 'pro clips' weekly thread and they can all be pushed into there? I do enjoy watching some of them. Mostly the tournament and not the streamer stuff.

              [–]SesorderehtMercy Flex[M] 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              This isn't a bad idea, we'd also maybe be able to relax the rules a little bit since there wouldn't be much worry for clutter on the front page.

              [–]zelnoth 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              Could also be restricted to only tournament play instead of including pro streams.

              [–]leoben1987 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              I'd love it if this became the rule. After all, this is the competitive subreddit, so highlight clips should be from professional Overwatch, not from Seagull streaming matchmaking. This would instantly cut the number of low quality posts by a huge amount.

              [–]clickrush 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              I agree with this. Anything that makes this sub less like /r/overwatch is welcome.

              [–]zeflyingtoaster 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              I've always wanted those tournament clips to be pushed into their match threads, not just to declutter the front page but also to help me find them all later. Though it would be awkward for someone who wants to post a clip after a day or two.

              [–]allbluesanji 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Good, too many shit quality posts

              [–]Ricky-V 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              I lurk the new posts a lot in several subreddits.

              There's a lot of thrash here that gets removed and then I see the very common witchhunt threads that last for some time and then get removed. That's good moderation.

              The reason why most of us visit this subreddit is because it's not r/Overwatch and the content actually gets moderated.

              I blocked the highlights and humor flairs from there when it became bad and it's still awful. I'm not a regular poster but I love to see that someone pays attention to trash here and that's the reason why I come to this sub instead.

              [–]Phlosky 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              I think there are a lot of problems with the rules.

              One problem is hackusations. I get why witch hunting isn't allowed, but if a pro player has a fishy looking clip out there, I see no reason in not discussing it.

              But the rule that gets me is that low effort/repetitive content isn't allowed. I think content that is truly low effort/ repetitive should be removed.

              I am on mobile and for whatever reason, removed posts often show up for me. A large portion of such posts are discussing hero balance. And most of them are about mercy. The mercy discussion doesn't go away. And sure they feel repetitive, but most of them have their own ideas for a solution, and time and time again, they get removed by mods. I'm tired of the mercy discussion too mods, but I think it needs to be around until the problems are fixed.

              [–]Boostflow 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Thank you mods for all the hard work. I really appreciate it. Keep it up !

              [–]dafinsrock 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              This post would be much more persuasive if you gave specific examples of threads that were removed which you believe should not have been because they were quality posts which would add something of value to the sub. Just citing numbers doesn't mean anything. For all you know, the mods removed over half of all posts because they were shitposts.

              [–]ekauqhtrae 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              A useful yet insufficient comparison is the hearthstone community, specifically /r/hearthstone and /r/ competitivehs. Competitivehs is heavily moderated and often slow, yet is focused on in-depth content. Overwatch is a different game, and has less room for real analysis, but I believe heavy moderation should be promoted for a subreddit like this. If the comments section can only really contain things like "harb is sooooooo funny" or "dafran's tracking is godlike" then it belongs in /r/overwatch. In my opinion, the success that a post would predictably get in /r/overwatch is a fair evaluation of whether a post fits here, thousands of upvotes on a play usually fits on /r/overwatch. That said, I have little complaint with current moderation, especially since it's a growing esport and can use some fun in the competitive community.

              [–]peetnguin 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              It's not overmoderated. If you're on at odd hours, some of the threads are really really low quality. I like that mods are responding to reports so quickly.

              [–]-NoNotion 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              I don't really think there is an overmoderation.
              This sub is about competitive Overwatch.
              If they wouldn't delete so many submissions we'd be fully spammed by casual and non competitive stuff.

              [–]gnarlylex 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              I'd guess a lot of QQ threads from people upset by road hog nerfs were removed. And that's fine with me.

              [–]SolarSurfer0 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              Stop posting shitty threads, this is a comp overwatch board...

              [–]Mikka567 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              The moderation on this sub is excellent. It's nice not having reams of balance or SR system posts clogging up the page. The moderation is what stops it turning to trash like the main Overwatch Reddit imo.

              [–]Fordeka 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Don't you think you should look at what they are removing before making accusations?

              [–]Etahel 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              That's sign of good moderation. People post tons of shit content.

              [–]lysergicals 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Make better posts?

              [–]Dilocroc 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (7子コメント)

              Whether you like a subreddit shouldn't be based on whether you like the topic that it surrounds, but whether or not you like the editorializing that the mod team offers. For instance, I like Overwatch, but am not a big fan of /r/overwatch.

              -Straight from the mouth of one of the newer mods

              The moderation here has honestly completely turned me off of this sub. The only reason to even bother coming here anymore is to check out match discussion, since the front page has turned into /r/Overwatch but with only seagull clips instead.

              [–]doqswol -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (6子コメント)

              that mod in particular has such a power complex

              [–]GannonHJ 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Their comment history in this sub is a goldmine of cringe

              [–]ace_of_sppades 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              He doesn't lie about how moderation creates a subreddit.

              [–]The_Entire_EurozoneYou Guys Get Paid For This? 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

              Yeah, have a real complex over the moderate-sized community that I help moderate.

              [–]doqswol 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

              Sure act like it

              [–]The_Entire_EurozoneYou Guys Get Paid For This? -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              Give me your expert psycho-analysis then.

              [–]GannonHJ 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              You're awful at this whole PR thing buddy

              [–]Supreme__Verdict 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              I respectfully disagree. I think the reason this sub can feel hit or miss on content is simply because of the specificity of the topic here. Because this sub is dedicated to the competitive scene of Overwatch, it's a reflection of that scene in a way. And, as we all know, there just isn't much happening in the scene right now.

              There are bound to be lulls in content quality just like there are lulls in content for us to share and discuss. The occasional clip gets through if it garners discussion (some may argue those belong in r/overwatch ), and the same goes for educational posts or Vod review requests (some may argue these belong in the r/OverwatchUniversity sub), but for the most part I think the mods do a great job here.

              When the scene picks up, OWL starts gathering steam, World Cup gets closer, Contenders continues, etc., we'll have more to discuss and the community here will benefit from it for sure. But until then, I'm glad the mods are stopping this from becoming the Elo hell diary of angry players on losing streaks.

              [–]doreato 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              I mean I sometimes go check new and man there are some garbage posts. Some guy recently suggested making mccrees crits void of fall off damage, like please delete those posts.

              [–]ace_of_sppades 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Using mod's comment histories I was able to see how many posts they had each removed. Over the last 24 hours the mods have removed 55/102 posts... over half of all submissions.

              Do you think terrible submissions should go through just because of volume.

              [–]GannonHJ 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (21子コメント)

              Focus on esports & competitive play

              Pretty sure the mods here couldn't care less for any posts on competitive play and if it's not clearly for esports or already has a ton of traction, it's going down.

              I've had countless frustrations with posts being removed here discussing competitive play and strategy. This seems more like a gosugamers subreddit than it does a competitive overwatch sub.

              If you don't have breaking news about an esports team/player, then fuck off your post is deleted. If you have a gimmicky POTG from a pro player? It's welcome. Just don't you dare talk about competitive/hero strategy.

              [–]The_Entire_EurozoneYou Guys Get Paid For This? 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (20子コメント)

              We allow plenty of discussion about hero strategy/competitive strategy. You just had a bunch of posts asking for advice outside our advice megathread.

              [–]GannonHJ 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (19子コメント)

              You guys don't allow discussion about hero strategy or competitive. You may say you do and want to believe that, but it's not true

              [–]The_Entire_EurozoneYou Guys Get Paid For This? 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (18子コメント)

              It's on the subreddit all the time. You're demonstrating willful ignorance here.

              [–]So_average 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Your ignorance of what low effort is, is the problem.

              [–]GannonHJ 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (16子コメント)

              Sure it's on the subreddit, in rare cases. It's the exception though. Maybe you guys like a thread every now and then but it's pretty clear by the responses here that you're quite outnumbered in that opinion.

              I think this sub is going to die due to uptight and strict moderation, and that's a shame.

              [–]The_Entire_EurozoneYou Guys Get Paid For This? 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (15子コメント)

              We keep growing and getting bigger numbers, it's nothing like dying. Let's not be dramatic here.

              [–]GannonHJ 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (14子コメント)

              Man you guys are awful at taking user feedback.

              Hey, people are voicing complaints! Instead of taking them to heart, we should just flood every comment with defensive replies and make them feel ridiculous!

              [–]The_Entire_EurozoneYou Guys Get Paid For This? 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (13子コメント)

              Us not necessarily taking your suggestion is not the same as being awful at taking feedback. You're not the only user we try to appeal to on the subreddit.

              We allow balancing posts if they meet our minimum effort rules, and we in fact allow many. They just tend to get downvoted heavily. Advice posts also tend to not get a lot of upvotes. That's subreddit opinion, if anything.

              [–]GannonHJ 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (12子コメント)

              If you don't value my feedback, then move on. Why invest all of this time to try to be defensive and make me feel stupid/ridiculous? What did you expect in this thread?

              You're not the only user we try to appeal to on the subreddit

              Let's not be dramatic here

              You're demonstrating willful ignorance here

              You just had a bunch of posts...

              Notice how all of these are You statements. How would you feel if you voiced a complaint to an organization and their way of responding was just to point the finger back at you?

              [–]The_Entire_EurozoneYou Guys Get Paid For This? 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (11子コメント)

              If those users kept badgering us and accusing us of running a bad ship? A lot of the complaints in this thread have been made in ways that you wouldn't refer to people IRL and expect them to listen to you. I don't see why you would expect anything else here.

              [–]Whales96 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Well yeah, if it isn't directly related to an esports player, then this isn't the place for it. Mods have been pretty clear on that.

              [–]donaldblarmf -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (3子コメント)

              /u/Sesordereht in particular is removing all posts that cast a bad light on his friends. there was a huge thread with proof of dafran throwing and breaking blizzards ToS and being a general ass, but he deleted it. i think the mods on this subreddit cant be trusted, not only is this subreddit overmoderated, they abuse their mod privileges to delete threads they dont like and enforce the rules only in particular instances so they can cover up information that the public has a right to know.

              [–]The_Entire_EurozoneYou Guys Get Paid For This? 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

              Sesor doesn't even know Dafran, as far as I know.

              [–]Fordeka 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              According to the reasoning here if you make a thread and people criticize a pro in it that is a valid reason to remove it? That doesn't make sense... Witch hunting implies no proof and incitement to harass- not criticism of something that happened. Very unusual deletion (it already had 155 upvotes and 85% upvoted) and I don't really buy the given reason. This thread I posted is similar but nobody decided to remove it. I know mods are obviously going to have different interpretations but it just seems weird.

              [–]The_Entire_EurozoneYou Guys Get Paid For This? 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              No, it has to be relevant enough to matter. Poor performance matters. Drama in matchmaking doesn't.

              [–]CCtenor 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

              I’d kind of like to see more discussions about improving in competitive overwatch, as well as breakdowns of how pros play etc, along with advice to help people improve (that isn’t obvious stuff).

              There doesn’t seem to be a place to talk about general improvement in either this sub, or the Overwatch sub.

              Just my 2 cents.

              [–]GannonHJ 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

              Makes a thread voicing concerns of the sub

              Every comment is downvoted and responded to by mods, mostly denying everything

              Well this is healthy for the community

              [–]freelance_fox -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

              I honestly don't have the time or energy to write a good top level reply after I've attempted to bring this issue up many times before, but the NUMEROUS times this has come up in the past the mods have done the EXACT same thing. They remove or ignore complaints like it's their job.

              The only reason I come here at all is because it's better than nothing. It would take hours of work for me to find all the prescient examples to prove to the people defending the mods here how wrong they are, principally because so many of the threads are from months ago and/or were deleted.

              [–]GannonHJ -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              There's really just one mod who sticks out and I'm not sure how the other mods haven't cracked down on him/her. I'm also not entirely sure why they value the community so little and think this should be run like a newspaper, where we submit the stories and they pick the best ones.

              That's what upvoting is for. Not deletion. Some of the best threads I've found for learning are those with 2 upvotes but 30 comments. And those get deleted. Wtf

              [–]freelance_fox -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              The responses to this thread should explain perfectly how this all happened: there's a loud but oblivious cheerleader section who encourage the mods by saying we have undermoderation or that they like not having to see "shitty" threads, but those people belong on ANOTHER WEBSITE besides Reddit. You're 100% right that what's happening here is that deletion is being substituted for downvotes, and the results are disasterous but in such a subtle way that an entire portion of the population, including apparently the whole moderation team, don't even see it as bad. The mods think their job is curation rather than moderation.

              [–]RandomUpAndDown 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              My personal impression is that the sub is under moderated, not over. /r/Overwatch is leaking, we have weird videos and high lights showing up in here, much worse lately. I come here for information, not entertaintment.

              [–]Winterrrrr 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Mods removing 55/102 posts means absolutely nothing, those 55 could have been pure shit posts, what is ridiculous about that?

              I trust the work that the mods are doing, and to be honest if you want to move this sub towards more what users want it to be...... well prepare for a lot of complaints/jokes and other crap content.

              Strong moderation to ensure post quality stays high is what will keep this sub alive and healthy.... and i'm all for it.

              [–]oskar669 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              It's the same problem all over reddit, but you won't really know it unless you're the one who posts or the one who gets banned. In general reddit needs no moderation. A shitpost won't get upvoted, so no need to delete it. The only threads that moderators should delete are obvious spam and highly inappropriate material. Anything that is safe to view should be left for the users to decide. I've had submissions deleted for no reason, and I've been lifetime banned from /r/starcraft for no reason and it took me getting on ventrillo with another mod to get it removed.
              It makes sense when you think of the type of person who would want to be a mod in the first place. The people who want to have mod status are usually the last people you would want to receive mod status.

              [–]getsmoked69 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              here's a thought, maybe this subreddit is an inconsistent highlight mess because the users here suck, not the mods :thinking:

              [–]MilkHS -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

              $20 says this gets removed by one of the new mods.

              [–]SesorderehtMercy Flex[M] 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              You're on.

              [–]Rabical -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              I had a post deleted because it was speculation... then I was told not to post here anymore if I plan to post speculation. A good deal of the posts here are speculation, so it seams a bit arbitrary.

              It was a bit abrasive, however I don't mind the over modding cause I know what I'm gonna get when I come to this sub.

              More conversation on the game would be preferred as I prefer this community's thoughts over others. It's kinda a fine line to walk and for the most part, it's more oppressive than not, but still consistentish.

              I wouldn't trade the lack of karma whoring for lesser post restrictions, so I say leave it as is.

              [–]FlimtotheFlam -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (3子コメント)

              Honestly this sub just feels like /r/ProOverwatch now. Like 90% of posts revolve around the pro scene. Well I don't care about the pro scene very much. I like discussing high level competitive Overwatch. I honestly go to /r/OverwatchUniversity/ more now because at least there you can discuss tactics in playing the game while here it just gets deleted. I think it became clear when their was no threads when Season 5 started to talk about placements

              [–]nopeoz 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

              Well I don't care about the pro scene very much. I like discussing high level competitive Overwatch.

              The pro scene is high level competitive Overwatch. There is nothing else to 'high level competitive'.

              [–]GannonHJ 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              No, the pro scene is the pro scene (where professionals make money and play in tournaments with teams) and high level competitive is Masters+ or whatever you consider "high level" (for some people, it's diamond).

              The pro scene is high level comp, but high level comp isn't just the pro scene...

              [–]nopeoz 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              apparently i play in high level comp lul

              take it from me, it's not high level

              [–]purplespengler -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              This thread is weapons grade stupid. Glad to see that the majority of top voted comments are pointing out that most posts period, everywhere, are garbage, and the importance of moderation.

              [–]hereweg420kush -8 ポイント-7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              I've had a post with like 95% upvoted deleted within an hour because of some bullshit rule. I wanted to know if there were any top500 stats released on S4 like %dps/healer/tank and whatnot. Many more people wanted to know and I felt if it was kept up it could've motivated someone to make stats or someone else would link stats already available. Instead it was deleted because you can't ask for stats and the mod claimed to know with certainty these stats didn't exist..

              I thought it was bullshit

              [–]SpriteGuy_000Numbers Dad[M] 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Your post was a quick question and a mod answered it for you.

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