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Can my husband create a post-nuptial agreement saying I waive all rights to his pre-marital assets and to our car? (self.legaladvice)

ThrowAwaySpouse77 が 投稿

We're located in Canada.

My husband and I have been married for two years (no kids) and are having marital difficulties. As part of our plan to work on our issues, we've agreed to go to marital counselling together and do a few other things as well.

He says he wants a post nuptial agreement.

I'm a mature student while he's a business professional. I have no income though I've been applying left and right for jobs over the summer break. He has significant cash assets in his private accounts from the sale of his house he bought before we met (which he sold after we were married) and he says he now wants me to sign a post nuptial agreement waiving any rights to those assets in the event of a divorce (we're currently renting with the plan of buying something within the year). He also wants me to sign our car (we're a one car family) over into his name only (it's currently only in mine).

I don't care about the money. It's not why I'm with him, though he seems paranoid that it is. I don't even know for sure how much he has (we have completely separate accounts) and I'm not about to ruin his life in the event of a divorce. However, my family thinks I'm crazy to even think about signing and there is some question about whether it would even be enforceable.

Is this even a thing people do? Beyond not getting any of the assets (which I don't want anyway), would I be exposing myself to additional risk I haven't even thought of? Why wouldn't it stand up in court?

Thanks!

EDIT: I sponsored him with immigration (to Canada from an industrialized European country) to get his permanent residency. If I'm starting to suspect he may have used me to get into the country, does that change my legal standing? What about his?

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[–]gabbeyabbey 133 ポイント134 ポイント  (0子コメント)

People do create post-nuptial agreements, but you absolutely, 100% need to hire your own attorney to look over any agreement he wants you to sign. This is very important since you will be signing away claims to property and money. While it may not seem like a big deal now, if it comes to divorce you could find yourself regretting your decision. So hire your own attorney to look over any agreement and listen to their advice.

[–]letmeassyouaquestion 152 ポイント153 ポイント  (13子コメント)

Now is not the time to negotiate. If the relationship gets better then fine otherwise negotiate on the way out. There's nothing in it for you and he's got an exit plan. Don't make it easy for him.

[–]ThrowAwaySpouse77[S] 31 ポイント32 ポイント  (12子コメント)

Do you think I have grounds to negotiate something on my own behalf? I don't have any assets beyond the car which is considered marital property anyway.

[–]letmeassyouaquestion 126 ポイント127 ポイント  (9子コメント)

He's not asking you to sign away rights to something you're not entitled to. Look at it this way: entering in to marriage is entering into a lifetime contract. All contracts have pentalies for breaking them. A lifetime contract would have obviously large penalties. You don't just have the car you have interest in all marital property.

You both signed the contract and now he wants to change the terms to more favorable ones before he breaks it. No one here is going to advice you to do that. It's just not in your best interest. Go speak to an attorney and prepare to protect yourself. Marriage doesn't always work out but that doesn't make you a bad person. I'm sorry this has gone sideways but take what you're entitled to on the way out.

[–]gabbeyabbey 107 ポイント108 ポイント  (8子コメント)

This. Even if you're not in it for the money, don't screw yourself over to the point you have nothing--not even a car or money to buy a new car--if the marriage is dissolved.

OP, you may not be in this for or expect any money, but it seems like your husband is working on getting all the assets to himself if it does come to divorce. He's trying to protect himself and you need to do the same.

[–]ThrowAwaySpouse77[S] 32 ポイント33 ポイント  (7子コメント)

I really appreciate your framing it this way. That makes a lot of sense.

Wouldn't it be seen as making a claim on assets that aren't mine though? Is it still considered protecting myself if all the assets aside from my personal effects are because of the money he has brought into the relationship?

[–]AirAdmiral 76 ポイント77 ポイント  (4子コメント)

My mother was a housewife for much of their married life. If they had divorced without her having a job in 20 years, she isn't entitled to nothing because she didn't work. Assumedly, you contributed to the household in many ways and if he left you would be in a world of hurt for a time at least because the support he gave his wife is suddenly gone. When you end a marriage, you are entitled to some of the marital assets because you both agreed that legally you're bound together in a bunch of ways. If he decides to leave, you are entitled to some assets to start making your life work again. Don't give up those assets. You can choose to be as generous as you want in the divorce, but you don't deserve to be left suddenly jobless, carless and homeless because he divorces you and that is kind of what he is proposing. It might not be malicous, but it isn't beneficial to you in any way.

[–]ThrowAwaySpouse77[S] 49 ポイント50 ポイント  (3子コメント)

"Jobless, carless, and homeless"

Wow. I never thought of it that way. That's very sobering. Thank you.

[–]toomanyrougneds 30 ポイント31 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Call a lawyer Monday. If you don't know one, call the Law Society in your province and ask for a referral to a barrister and solicitor specializing in international family law.

This is absolutely essential.

[–]ThrowAwaySpouse77[S] 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (1子コメント)

This is very useful advice! Thank you. I never would have thought of looking for someone who specializes specifically in international family law.

Do you know if the specifics would differ greatly from a regular case where he's a permanent resident who was sponsored by his spouse rather than an ordinary citizen?

[–]destiny_acct 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

His immigration problems are his own issues. The primary concern for you is that he has access to open accounts in a foreign country, where Canadian courts won't have direct jurisdiction. A lawyer familiar with the international agreements regarding spousal support and other claims is going to know how to get access, even if he tries to hide assets in his country of citizenship. It's probable that he already has a retirement fund internationally, for instance.

Even if they can't be recovered, knowing their details will help build a case the judge will be able to use in your favor, and grant you more assets that are domestically stored.

[–]gabbeyabbey 59 ポイント60 ポイント  (0子コメント)

By virtue of marriage at least some of the assets are yours. Just because you didn't hold them before the marriage doesn't mean you don't have a claim to them. No court will see you protecting yourself as you trying to hoard things that aren't yours.

Please don't let your husband bully you into signing something especially without having it reviewed by your independent counsel who has no connection to your husband or convince you that you're being greedy and trying to take things that aren't yours. These are things he should have thought about before the marriage and your main focus needs to be on you and what is best for you only.

[–]GorgonZolla 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Also keep in mind that if immigration gets involved with this it's going to be a lot messier than your hypothesized "we both go our own separate ways". You'll want to ensure you have financial support if you have to defend your marriage to the government.

[–]gyaradostwister 44 ポイント45 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You don't even know what assets (or claims to assets) you have. You need a lawyer.

For what it matters, this is what Elon Musk's "starter wife" claims he did to her to eliminate her rights to all his money. Don't do this without a lawyer.

[–]OTL_OTL_OTL 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've heard about people putting clauses into their prenups, like if one spouse was caught cheating then the prenup was nullified(?). Maybe you can put a clause in like that, or a clause where if there is reasonable suspicion that the marriage failed because he was using you for immigration purposes, the postnup is nullified. Pre and post nups can be the cause of divorces, so maybe this is just one of those times...

[–]Constantlyevolving 29 ポイント30 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm sorry you're having marital problems. Please don't sign anything. I hate to assume the worst when you're going to counseling and trying to work things out, but this is just shady.

I wish you all the best.

[–]gyaradostwister 56 ポイント57 ポイント  (0子コメント)

He just generally thinks this is a good idea someday? (whatever, honey!) Or he lawyered up and has something you need to sign? If this is a real thing, you need your own lawyer before you even think about signing anything.

[–]vampirelord567 48 ポイント49 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Not legal, but life advice. Him asking you to sign this is basically his statement that the marriage is over. He is trying to use the illusion of wanting to improve it to get into a more favorable position before the end.

[–]ThrowAwaySpouse77[S] 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you. This is my fear as well. He felt so cold to me when he stipulated what he "needed" in order to give our marriage another try. On the personal level, sometimes it feels like I'm just in his way. I love him very much but the comments here make me wonder if I should.

[–]bug-hunterQuality Contributor 37 ポイント38 ポイント  (2子コメント)

A key part of any contract is consideration - you can't just give up rights to stuff for nothing. He's holding your marriage hostage for this contract, which judges frown on. That's one of the reasons it may not stand up in court.

[–]ThrowAwaySpouse77[S] 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Even though it's a relatively brief marriage so far? I've read court cases from my region where it was stated that if the marriage was under 5 years, the parties more or less left with what they came with. Would copies of our emails about this show in court that it was signed under duress if this all goes pear shaped?

[–]bug-hunterQuality Contributor 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (0子コメント)

My standard advice is to get an attorney's opinion before signing anything like this. That gives you time to delay, and him time to think "What sort of idiot am I that my wife needs to consult an attorney?"

[–]freestyler01 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I wouldn't. If you suspect he used you to immigrate into the country, then I wonder if he's setting you up to sign the post-nup, and then divorce you the first chance he gets. Or, maybe you can negotiate a post-nup agreement where if your marriage lasts X months/years, then you get a certain amount of money, and the longer the marriage lasts, the more money you get, therefor, he can't take advantage of you and he, hopefully, won't feel taken advantage of.

For example, if your marriage lasts 12 months then you're entitled to $15,000 upon divorce. if it last 15 months, then add another $5k. Two years of marriage, and it's $25k. These numbers are just examples to illustrate the kind of agreement I mean. You want to make it so that you get something out of the marriage in case he files for divorce as soon as he's able to stay in the country without being married to you. This is to protect yourself just in case you're right and he is only using you.

Get a lawyer that you pay for with your own money so that he represents your best interest only, and go over your options. Don't use hubby's lawyer and don't take his lawyer's advice. Have your lawyer and his lawyer try to draw up a fair agreement for you both, and warn your lawyer of your suspicions to see how you can protect yourself just in case. IANAL.

My idea probably has some flaws, but you get the point, I hope. Don't let him take advantage of you and use you by divorcing you in a year and you have nothing to show for it, but he now has permanent resident status thanks to you marrying him, and now he can divorce you and marry who he really wanted to marry in the first place.

[–]ThrowAwaySpouse77[S] 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Interesting. I didn't know this was something people did. So, in effect, I would be waiving my rights to some unknown amount of assets in court in favour of a set amount determined by time spent if we ended up divorcing? I could see how that might help assuage his fears about me being only with him for his money while also giving me some minimal protection should the worst happen. This is a great suggestion! Thank you.

[–]MMEnter 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You also need to keep in mind that you signed a undertaking that you would provide for him. I don't know how long that period is but I read 3 to 10 years.

If he would fail financially you would have to pay for him no matter what.

[–]ccfccc 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I am not sure how things work in Canada, but in many countries when you sponsor someone for immigration, there usually is a period where you have financial responsibility for them. So if the other party were to go on welfare you would be financially responsible. I would look into the exact details of what you signed with immigration. Before you consider signing away any assets, you should see what your possible future obligations are (if any).

[–]oldtownal 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You stood by him, don't minimize the positive effect that you had on his life. You deserve to walk away from the marriage with what the law allows. Don't look at the post-nuptial agreement as a possible way to save the marriage, it is not, regardless of what he says. Let him know that you can be reasonable if he is.

[–]Grimsterr 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Don't - sign - nothing.

[–]ThrowAwayAlphaDelta 35 ポイント36 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Don't - sign - nothing anything.

Really should avoid double negatives in giving legal advice.

[–]JewishHippyJesus 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Don't not sign nothing.

[–]backwardsdipthong 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (1子コメント)

don't ignore what this guy said ^

[–]Costco1L 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nor not ignore what he didn't say, no?

[–]h8speech 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

However, my family thinks I'm crazy to even think about signing

They're correct.

Although he might have significant assets compared to you, he has insignificant assets by the standards of other places. All he's saying here is that either he's mentally ill and paranoid, or he's done with being married to you. I'm sorry that you're having to go through this, but don't avoid it. Consult a lawyer and protect yourself. Don't let him make you sign anything.

[–]MTGS-Annorax 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sign nothing, give up nothing.

[–]Draqur 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Signing a post nuptial will not benefit you in any way.

[–]Marius_Eponine 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Do not sign anything

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