Passionately Promoting A More Perfect World

osberend:

sinesalvatorem:

First off, dating =/= going on a date with =/= having sex with. The form is for #2. I have done numbers 1 and 3 with men and had it go badly. I have never gone on a date with a man, because I’ve almost never gone on dates, for the reasons explained before.

I would not expect going on a date with a man to go wrong for me, because it would be the same as leaving home to hang out with a guy for a while (in a delightfully gendered setting). I would expect going on a date with me to not be fun for the guy in question, though, because friendzone right out the gate. It’s not progressing toward a dating relationship or sex, so what’s the point?

The reason the form has options for guys is for completeness reasons, though. It would be weird to have a form that didn’t have buttons for a man to press if he showed up. However, I don’t expect anyone to press them, because I don’t expect anyone of the relevant gender to want to. In the strange event that one wanted to take me out for no reason, you totally could.

I can easily see a reason, or rather, several.

The simplest (and one whose universal applicability I wish to emphasize, lest it be overwhelmed by the flood of text about more narrowly-applicable reasons below) is general enjoyment — why not arrange to spend a block of time interacting with someone you expect to (a) be at least somewhat physically attracted to and (b) find unusually conversationally stimulating in, as you put it, “a delightfully​ gendered setting.”

Which leads into reason number 2: Gender euphoria doesn’t just apply to trans people. There are an awful lot of cis dudes out there (and probably disproportionately many of them in the rationalist/adjacent community) who don’t get a lot of opportunities to consciously embody male gender roles in a meaningful and positive way. Having a girl say “Click here for a guaranteed chance to ‘treat me very female’ and have me be happy about it” is an opportunity not to be missed, especially given that …

Reason 3: It’s (almost) zero-risk practice/exposure therapy. A lot of guys with little history of romantic or sexual success are terrified of screwing up their One Chance at Happiness, and will as a result (a) just never ask a girl out, at all (either because they’re paralyzed by anxiety or because they need to craft the Perfect Proposal, that will have no possible chance of going wrong), (b) One Tree on the Hill their way into fucking things up far worse than they possibly could have if they hadn’t been freaking out over the possibility of fucking things up, and/or © just be incredibly, interest-killingly dull, because they’re afraid to say or do anything that might cause a negative reaction.

From this perspective, going on a date with a girl who they have zero chance of actually getting into bed and/or a relationship with, for about the most ego-preserving reason possible, is perfect. They don’t have to worry about blowing an opportunity that was never there to be blown.

(To the extent that part of the point of this exercise is to practice not making an ass of themselves (and thereby confirm to themselves that this is actually a thing that they can do, in a romantic context), the fact that you’re a black (assuming a non-black Interested Male, because rationalist demographics; delete if inapplicable), gay, trans, immigrant Jew (okay, so rationalist demographics make that last one less likely to be relevant, but still) is arguably a bonus: If they can manage to go on a date with you without devouring their own feet, well then! Surely going on a date with a cishet, native-born, same-race, gentile girl should be Easy Mode, right!?)

And the value of low-risk practice is likely to be further increased by …

Reason 4: Given your whole Moderate Social Competence thing, combined with general rationalist/adjacent social norms, there is a vastly increased chance that if they do something unusually good or notably bad, you’ll actually tell them, and thereby improve their ability to attract women who are interested in dating men.

So, Teal Deer: There are lots of excellent reasons for men to be interested in going on a date with Alison sinesalvatorem, including but not limited to the expected enjoyability of the experience.

@osberend​ makes a good point (or, well, several), so I suppose I’m now convinced that I’m not the only person who could benefit from potential hetero dates.

>Gender euphoria doesn’t just apply to trans people. There are an awful lot of cis dudes out there (and probably disproportionately many of them in the rationalist/adjacent community) who don’t get a lot of opportunities to consciously embody male gender roles in a meaningful and positive way.

I didn’t actually think about this, but it’s very true. Being nerdy or disabled (both common things around here) is unusually likely to get you degendered in the public sphere. So, for anyone who experiences gender euphoria, this would be as good an opportunity for them as for me.

(Or anyone who prefers being in dominant roles since, in the dating dance, “dominant role” and “masculine role” are (problematically) almost identical.)

((Or anyone who doesn’t care for either, but is for other reasons interested in doing things which correspond to that role, even if they don’t think about it explicitly. You don’t have to think about gender to open doors, pull out chairs, order on the other person’s behalf, pay the bill, etc.))

>It’s (almost) zero-risk practice/exposure therapy. A lot of guys with little history of romantic or sexual success are terrified of screwing up their One Chance at Happiness … From this perspective, going on a date with a girl who they have zero chance of actually getting into bed and/or a relationship with, for about the most ego-preserving reason possible, is perfect.

Heh, I’m happy to be a trial-run date, yes. Maybe I should charge for being a Dates 101 course :p

>Given your whole Moderate Social Competence thing, combined with general rationalist/adjacent social norms, there is a vastly increased chance that if they do something unusually good or notably bad, you’ll actually tell them, and thereby improve their ability to attract women who are interested in dating men.

Depends on what they ask for. I habitually complement people, so they’re sure to know what they do right, but most people feel bad when criticised, with the amount of bad feeling being proportional to how stressful and/or public the situation is. Going on a date when you’ve never done it before seems like a lot of both.

Which is to say that I’ll totally give them a running critique if they want me to. With the caveat that, while a lot of it is likely to be “This thing would annoy most people because X”, some of it will be “This thing annoys me and IDFK why dude”.

So, for anyone who agrees with @osberend, feel free to book a trial date here.