Genetic segregation
"The regional nature of selection was first made evident in a genomewide scan undertaken by Jonathan Pritchard, a population geneticist at the University of Chicago, in 2006. He looked for genes under selection in the three major races—Africans, East Asians and Europeans (or more exactly Caucasians, but European genetics are at present much better understood, so European populations are the usual subjects of study). Copious genetic data had been collected on each race as part of the HapMap, a project undertaken by the National Institutes of Health to explore the genetic roots of common disease. In each race Pritchard found about 200 genetic regions that showed a characteristic signature of having been under selection (206 in Africans, 185 in East Asians and 188 in Europeans). But in each race, a largely different set of genes was under selection, with only quite minor overlaps."
The primary theme of Nicholas Wade's A Troublesome Inheritance is repeated over and over by Wade in the early chapters like a drumbeat, as if he knows the critical reader is not going to read very far into the book and will misrepresent what Wade is asserting: human evolution has been recent, copious, and regional. It is also apparent that Wade knows why his words are likely to be twisted and attacked: "The fact that human evolution has been recent, copious and regional is not widely recognized, even though it has now been reported by many articles in the literature of genetics. The reason is in part that the knowledge is so new and in part because it raises awkward challenges to deeply held conventional wisdom."
Genetic science has already exploded most of the equalitarian mantras. We are not all the same under the skin. Race is not a social construct. Race is not only skin-deep. The content of your character can, on average, be estimated by, if not necessarily the color of your skin, the sum total of your superficial features. Human evolution did not stop at some point in the distant past. Civilization is not magically bestowed by geographic location. Education is not the answer.
The reason even professional biologists are afraid to discuss the current scientific evidence coming out of the genetic laboratories is because it leads to one inescapable conclusion: all of the social policies based upon the idea of basic human equality are doomed to failure. And worse, when combined with other evidence from other disciplines, it leads to a second conclusion: most of the social policies designed to improve the lot of the so-called disadvantaged are not merely doomed to failure, but are intrinsically dyscivic in nature and are more likely to drag the genetically advantaged populations down into semi-barbarism than to help the genetically disadvantaged populations become fully civilized on average.
Not all of the specifics of these known genetic differences are known, much less the full extent of their effects on human behavior. Some of them are, of course, trivial. But they are not all insignificant. Consider, for example, the example of the MAO-A gene, which is connected to the control of aggression.
"As it happens, the promoter for MAO-A is quite variable in the human population. People may have two, three, four or five copies of it, and the more copies they have, the more of the MAO-A enzyme their cells produce. What difference does this make to a person’s behavior? Quite a lot, it turns out. People with three, four or five copies of the MAO-A promoter are normal but those with only two copies have a much higher level of delinquency.... He and his colleagues looked at the MAO-A promoters in African Americans. The subjects were the same 2,524 American youths in the study by Shih mentioned above. Of the African American men in the sample, 5% carried two MAO-A promoters, the condition that Shih had found to be associated with higher levels of delinquency. Members of the two-promoter group were significantly more likely to have been arrested and imprisoned than African Americans who carried three or four promoters. The same comparison could not be made in white, or Caucasian, males, the researchers report, because only 0.1% carry the two-promoter allele."
Does this mean that all African-Americans are prone to violence? No, it proves the exact opposite. The vast majority are not. But it does mean that with regards to this single factor related to an individual's ability to control his own aggression, an African-American male is 50 times more likely to have a genetic handicap in comparison with a white male. Therefore, social policies that blithely assume that African-American males have the same intrinsic ability to control their aggression as white males are not only unscientific, but can be reliably predicted to fail. That is just one significant genetic distinction that has been discovered. There will be more. There will be many more.
Equality is not merely unscientific, at this point it is now objectively antiscientific. The undeniable fact of human genetic segregation does not intrinsically justify the eugenic excesses and ethnic cleansings of the past. But sooner or later, as the science advances, it will force the eventual discussion of whether the costs of playing equalitarian make-believe are too high for Western civilization, if that civilization wishes to survive.
The primary theme of Nicholas Wade's A Troublesome Inheritance is repeated over and over by Wade in the early chapters like a drumbeat, as if he knows the critical reader is not going to read very far into the book and will misrepresent what Wade is asserting: human evolution has been recent, copious, and regional. It is also apparent that Wade knows why his words are likely to be twisted and attacked: "The fact that human evolution has been recent, copious and regional is not widely recognized, even though it has now been reported by many articles in the literature of genetics. The reason is in part that the knowledge is so new and in part because it raises awkward challenges to deeply held conventional wisdom."
Genetic science has already exploded most of the equalitarian mantras. We are not all the same under the skin. Race is not a social construct. Race is not only skin-deep. The content of your character can, on average, be estimated by, if not necessarily the color of your skin, the sum total of your superficial features. Human evolution did not stop at some point in the distant past. Civilization is not magically bestowed by geographic location. Education is not the answer.
The reason even professional biologists are afraid to discuss the current scientific evidence coming out of the genetic laboratories is because it leads to one inescapable conclusion: all of the social policies based upon the idea of basic human equality are doomed to failure. And worse, when combined with other evidence from other disciplines, it leads to a second conclusion: most of the social policies designed to improve the lot of the so-called disadvantaged are not merely doomed to failure, but are intrinsically dyscivic in nature and are more likely to drag the genetically advantaged populations down into semi-barbarism than to help the genetically disadvantaged populations become fully civilized on average.
Not all of the specifics of these known genetic differences are known, much less the full extent of their effects on human behavior. Some of them are, of course, trivial. But they are not all insignificant. Consider, for example, the example of the MAO-A gene, which is connected to the control of aggression.
"As it happens, the promoter for MAO-A is quite variable in the human population. People may have two, three, four or five copies of it, and the more copies they have, the more of the MAO-A enzyme their cells produce. What difference does this make to a person’s behavior? Quite a lot, it turns out. People with three, four or five copies of the MAO-A promoter are normal but those with only two copies have a much higher level of delinquency.... He and his colleagues looked at the MAO-A promoters in African Americans. The subjects were the same 2,524 American youths in the study by Shih mentioned above. Of the African American men in the sample, 5% carried two MAO-A promoters, the condition that Shih had found to be associated with higher levels of delinquency. Members of the two-promoter group were significantly more likely to have been arrested and imprisoned than African Americans who carried three or four promoters. The same comparison could not be made in white, or Caucasian, males, the researchers report, because only 0.1% carry the two-promoter allele."
Does this mean that all African-Americans are prone to violence? No, it proves the exact opposite. The vast majority are not. But it does mean that with regards to this single factor related to an individual's ability to control his own aggression, an African-American male is 50 times more likely to have a genetic handicap in comparison with a white male. Therefore, social policies that blithely assume that African-American males have the same intrinsic ability to control their aggression as white males are not only unscientific, but can be reliably predicted to fail. That is just one significant genetic distinction that has been discovered. There will be more. There will be many more.
Equality is not merely unscientific, at this point it is now objectively antiscientific. The undeniable fact of human genetic segregation does not intrinsically justify the eugenic excesses and ethnic cleansings of the past. But sooner or later, as the science advances, it will force the eventual discussion of whether the costs of playing equalitarian make-believe are too high for Western civilization, if that civilization wishes to survive.
Labels: science, Vibrancy is our strength
234 Comments:
1 – 200 of 234 Newer› Newest»-
Laramie Hirsch
May 15, 2014 5:31 AM
-
-
Aphelion
May 15, 2014 5:46 AM
-
-
proofessor X
May 15, 2014 5:47 AM
-
-
Aphelion
May 15, 2014 5:48 AM
-
-
Doom
May 15, 2014 6:01 AM
-
-
MAO-A
May 15, 2014 6:39 AM
-
-
DT
May 15, 2014 6:52 AM
-
-
buzzardist
May 15, 2014 7:01 AM
-
-
YIH
May 15, 2014 7:02 AM
-
-
Wanderer
May 15, 2014 7:12 AM
-
-
Shimshon
May 15, 2014 7:16 AM
-
-
Maximo Macaroni
May 15, 2014 7:19 AM
-
-
kudzu bob
May 15, 2014 7:23 AM
-
-
simplytimothy
May 15, 2014 7:30 AM
-
-
Doom
May 15, 2014 7:35 AM
-
-
TontoBubbaGoldstein
May 15, 2014 7:36 AM
-
-
VD
May 15, 2014 7:38 AM
-
-
The Deuce
May 15, 2014 7:41 AM
-
-
YIH
May 15, 2014 7:48 AM
-
-
The Deuce
May 15, 2014 7:53 AM
-
-
IM2L844
May 15, 2014 8:07 AM
-
-
VD
May 15, 2014 8:15 AM
-
-
Wanderer
May 15, 2014 8:17 AM
-
-
FrankNorman
May 15, 2014 8:29 AM
-
-
PhillipGeorge(c)2014
May 15, 2014 8:29 AM
-
-
IM2L844
May 15, 2014 8:30 AM
-
-
Wanderer
May 15, 2014 8:33 AM
-
-
tz
May 15, 2014 8:36 AM
-
-
Tank
May 15, 2014 8:43 AM
-
-
PhillipGeorge(c)2014
May 15, 2014 8:52 AM
-
-
VD
May 15, 2014 8:59 AM
-
-
freeonus
May 15, 2014 8:59 AM
-
-
paradox
May 15, 2014 9:01 AM
-
-
Blastman
May 15, 2014 9:08 AM
-
-
bob k. mando
May 15, 2014 9:10 AM
-
-
Roundtine
May 15, 2014 9:14 AM
-
-
VD
May 15, 2014 9:17 AM
-
-
The Deuce
May 15, 2014 9:19 AM
-
-
IM2L844
May 15, 2014 9:33 AM
-
-
simplytimothy
May 15, 2014 9:54 AM
-
-
Stephen J.
May 15, 2014 9:57 AM
-
-
MontyDraxel
May 15, 2014 10:01 AM
-
-
Laguna Beach Fogey
May 15, 2014 10:20 AM
-
-
Laguna Beach Fogey
May 15, 2014 10:25 AM
-
-
simplytimothy
May 15, 2014 10:25 AM
-
-
Desiderius
May 15, 2014 10:27 AM
-
-
hardscrabble farmer
May 15, 2014 10:30 AM
-
-
freeonus
May 15, 2014 10:33 AM
-
-
Porky
May 15, 2014 10:37 AM
-
-
GG
May 15, 2014 10:39 AM
-
-
Doug Wardell
May 15, 2014 10:41 AM
-
-
Desiderius
May 15, 2014 10:46 AM
-
-
Desiderius
May 15, 2014 10:47 AM
-
-
VD
May 15, 2014 10:48 AM
-
-
Josh
May 15, 2014 10:53 AM
-
-
VD
May 15, 2014 10:58 AM
-
-
cailcorishev
May 15, 2014 11:03 AM
-
-
alphaisassumed
May 15, 2014 11:06 AM
-
-
Desiderius
May 15, 2014 11:07 AM
-
-
Porky
May 15, 2014 11:13 AM
-
-
Stephen J.
May 15, 2014 11:15 AM
-
-
JartStar
May 15, 2014 11:17 AM
-
-
Troll2
May 15, 2014 11:20 AM
-
-
bob k. mando
May 15, 2014 11:20 AM
-
-
Laguna Beach Fogey
May 15, 2014 11:37 AM
-
-
Blastman
May 15, 2014 11:41 AM
-
-
cailcorishev
May 15, 2014 11:54 AM
-
-
LogicPolice
May 15, 2014 11:56 AM
-
-
Josh
May 15, 2014 11:57 AM
-
-
LogicPolice
May 15, 2014 11:59 AM
-
-
cailcorishev
May 15, 2014 12:00 PM
-
-
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater
May 15, 2014 12:01 PM
-
-
bob k. mando
May 15, 2014 12:03 PM
-
-
Porky
May 15, 2014 12:05 PM
-
-
Pinky
May 15, 2014 12:06 PM
-
-
Blogmeister-T
May 15, 2014 12:08 PM
-
-
Desiderius
May 15, 2014 12:15 PM
-
-
Josh
May 15, 2014 12:15 PM
-
-
Laguna Beach Fogey
May 15, 2014 12:21 PM
-
-
Porky
May 15, 2014 12:24 PM
-
-
bob k. mando
May 15, 2014 12:25 PM
-
-
Nate
May 15, 2014 12:25 PM
-
-
Laguna Beach Fogey
May 15, 2014 12:26 PM
-
-
Hutu Farmer
May 15, 2014 12:28 PM
-
-
the bandit
May 15, 2014 12:28 PM
-
-
Roundtine
May 15, 2014 12:30 PM
-
-
A Plate of Shrimp
May 15, 2014 12:30 PM
-
-
Porky
May 15, 2014 12:37 PM
-
-
The Deuce
May 15, 2014 12:39 PM
-
-
bob k. mando
May 15, 2014 12:40 PM
-
-
Porky
May 15, 2014 12:41 PM
-
-
patrick kelly
May 15, 2014 12:42 PM
-
-
Pinky
May 15, 2014 12:46 PM
-
-
LogicPolice
May 15, 2014 12:48 PM
-
-
Laguna Beach Fogey
May 15, 2014 12:50 PM
-
-
VD
May 15, 2014 12:57 PM
-
-
Porky
May 15, 2014 1:02 PM
-
-
VD
May 15, 2014 1:05 PM
-
-
LogicPolice
May 15, 2014 1:05 PM
-
-
iwillbecalledtadforsomereason
May 15, 2014 1:05 PM
-
-
Rex Little
May 15, 2014 1:08 PM
-
-
anti-racist
May 15, 2014 1:10 PM
-
-
Porky
May 15, 2014 1:11 PM
-
-
Cis
May 15, 2014 1:19 PM
-
-
Stilicho
May 15, 2014 1:19 PM
-
-
The Aardvark
May 15, 2014 1:20 PM
-
-
Lud VanB
May 15, 2014 1:22 PM
-
-
alphaisassumed
May 15, 2014 1:27 PM
-
-
whoresoftheinternet
May 15, 2014 1:27 PM
-
-
JI
May 15, 2014 1:27 PM
-
-
Hereld
May 15, 2014 1:27 PM
-
-
Mr. Rational
May 15, 2014 1:29 PM
-
-
Jabrinpin
May 15, 2014 1:29 PM
-
-
Pinky
May 15, 2014 1:31 PM
-
-
Margo Sanger
May 15, 2014 1:31 PM
-
-
guest
May 15, 2014 1:32 PM
-
-
Enyo
May 15, 2014 1:43 PM
-
-
LogicPolice
May 15, 2014 1:43 PM
-
-
Harold Carper
May 15, 2014 1:47 PM
-
-
Doug Wardell
May 15, 2014 1:51 PM
-
-
Blogmeister-T
May 15, 2014 1:52 PM
-
-
Laguna Beach Fogey
May 15, 2014 1:53 PM
-
-
Hutu Farmer
May 15, 2014 1:56 PM
-
-
Tennesee
May 15, 2014 1:56 PM
-
-
RedJack
May 15, 2014 1:58 PM
-
-
Margo Sanger
May 15, 2014 2:01 PM
-
-
VD
May 15, 2014 2:09 PM
-
-
Cotes
May 15, 2014 2:11 PM
-
-
alphaisassumed
May 15, 2014 2:12 PM
-
-
Tennesee
May 15, 2014 2:14 PM
-
-
alphaisassumed
May 15, 2014 2:16 PM
-
-
bob k. mando
May 15, 2014 2:21 PM
-
-
Desiderius
May 15, 2014 2:23 PM
-
-
alphaisassumed
May 15, 2014 2:24 PM
-
-
LogicPolice
May 15, 2014 2:25 PM
-
-
Desiderius
May 15, 2014 2:31 PM
-
-
bob k. mando
May 15, 2014 2:32 PM
-
-
Porky
May 15, 2014 2:33 PM
-
-
scoobius dubious
May 15, 2014 2:34 PM
-
-
Desiderius
May 15, 2014 2:37 PM
-
-
Stating the obvious
May 15, 2014 2:38 PM
-
-
Rex Little
May 15, 2014 2:41 PM
-
-
VD
May 15, 2014 2:44 PM
-
-
VD
May 15, 2014 2:47 PM
-
-
simplytimothy
May 15, 2014 2:51 PM
-
-
simplytimothy
May 15, 2014 2:56 PM
-
-
simplytimothy
May 15, 2014 2:59 PM
-
-
RedJack
May 15, 2014 3:00 PM
-
-
Rex Little
May 15, 2014 3:04 PM
-
-
Doug Wardell
May 15, 2014 3:14 PM
-
-
scoobius dubious
May 15, 2014 3:14 PM
-
-
Laramie Hirsch
May 15, 2014 3:17 PM
-
-
scoobius dubious
May 15, 2014 3:27 PM
-
-
Laguna Beach Fogey
May 15, 2014 3:31 PM
-
-
Doom
May 15, 2014 3:32 PM
-
-
Porky
May 15, 2014 3:33 PM
-
-
alphaisassumed
May 15, 2014 3:36 PM
-
-
Nate
May 15, 2014 3:37 PM
-
-
Hutu Farmer
May 15, 2014 3:54 PM
-
-
Baloo
May 15, 2014 3:58 PM
-
-
emilio rodriguez
May 15, 2014 4:00 PM
-
-
Porky
May 15, 2014 4:18 PM
-
-
alphaisassumed
May 15, 2014 4:22 PM
-
-
Rex Little
May 15, 2014 4:22 PM
-
-
Obvious
May 15, 2014 4:45 PM
-
-
troll2
May 15, 2014 4:46 PM
-
-
Stilicho
May 15, 2014 4:52 PM
-
-
patrick kelly
May 15, 2014 4:57 PM
-
-
Gara
May 15, 2014 5:00 PM
-
-
Porky
May 15, 2014 5:05 PM
-
-
patrick kelly
May 15, 2014 5:09 PM
-
-
Laguna Beach Fogey
May 15, 2014 5:17 PM
-
-
Laguna Beach Fogey
May 15, 2014 5:23 PM
-
-
kh123
May 15, 2014 5:29 PM
-
-
kh123
May 15, 2014 5:37 PM
-
-
Jack Amok
May 15, 2014 5:49 PM
-
-
VD
May 15, 2014 6:10 PM
-
-
Rex Little
May 15, 2014 6:15 PM
-
-
patrick kelly
May 15, 2014 6:16 PM
-
-
patrick kelly
May 15, 2014 6:19 PM
-
-
emilio rodriguez
May 15, 2014 6:30 PM
-
-
Rolf
May 15, 2014 6:31 PM
-
-
Desiderius
May 15, 2014 6:54 PM
-
-
Desiderius
May 15, 2014 6:58 PM
-
-
Plethora
May 15, 2014 7:00 PM
-
-
Plethora
May 15, 2014 7:02 PM
-
-
John
May 15, 2014 7:09 PM
-
-
Desiderius
May 15, 2014 7:10 PM
-
-
Porky
May 15, 2014 7:40 PM
-
-
James Dixon
May 15, 2014 8:30 PM
-
-
Rex Little
May 15, 2014 8:39 PM
-
-
alphaisassumed
May 15, 2014 9:38 PM
-
-
Rolf
May 15, 2014 9:54 PM
-
-
Stilicho
May 15, 2014 10:09 PM
-
-
scoobius dubious
May 15, 2014 10:30 PM
-
-
Desiderius
May 15, 2014 10:50 PM
-
-
Desiderius
May 15, 2014 11:02 PM
-
-
Plethora
May 15, 2014 11:14 PM
-
-
IM2L844
May 15, 2014 11:57 PM
-
-
Rex Little
May 16, 2014 12:03 AM
-
1 – 200 of 234 Newer› Newest»I wouldn't even know what forum or community I could share this insight with. Such is the state of thought in Western society.
I find this to be fascinating. I can also see why Ward and anyone commenting positively on his work is going to be attacked. Of course the stupidity behind all of this is that we all know there are differences, otherwise the liberals would have no reason to celebrate diversity.
Perhaps the next time someone argues that all are equal, we should ask them why they reject diversity?
For decades I have opposed mass immigration, believing it is better to help the poor where they are than bringing them here and allowing immigrants to build foreign communities among us.
Niggas and science just dont mix. Ya heard?
That is Wade of course, not Ward...
That's all, nice, and stuff. But you are talking to people who already knew this. It is why so many of us want not just the right to congregate, but the congruent right to exclusion. Well, I won't say want as create the situation in which we can do so. All you are telling me is that academia is beginning to realize that they are the knuckle draggers, the numbskulls, the dolts.
Actually, I suspect they have always known. As with the Catholic church, back in the day, as you pondered in one of your books, the problem is... what to do about it. Actually, the church and academia came to the same conclusion. With the data they had, they couldn't be sure. So, by not being sure, they had to err on the side of equality. Of soul, or personhood, whatever you wish to call it. Since then it has been a lockstep advance into utter failure.
The reason academia is dragging it's feet, especially hard, at this point, is because, without God, and with dwindling resources per person, choices in the mid and longer range have to begin to be made. Who gets the lifeboats. Who... might even be... eliminated. The church had a great deal of problems with this issue. And, personally, I think they decided "yes" to souls because they didn't want to be responsible for wholesale slaughter. I'm not sure academia cares. It has no soul, and doesn't care about such consequences. Dry and dead. It could easily lead to the destruction of many people.
Then again, it's obvious, by what is happening in Africa, and being supported by the left, is, in essence, genocide. They have been doing it through "charities", government and trade impositions, and 'cultural exchanges', for a very long time. And, getting away with it, because of gold in the right hands, lib-speak (we are all equal, we love you, so... kill your peoples). Well, and they are playing chess with chimps, essentially. You can even put the one-child China policy in there with the genocide. That was a program created for China by the U.N. Such a gifting bureaucracy that one is.
Most of the lessors who make it anywhere close to a level of understanding, however, are bought and become Uncle Toms of the highest order. The Obamas, for example. Meh, it'll fix itself. Too many strings for even this convergence of realities and lies and mistakes to have been a mistake. But it does come down, as always, what to do about it.
whatchu sayin? WHATCHU SAYIN? motherfucker, i will beat you. Yeah, you know this man.
Science be rayciss!
most of the social policies designed to improve the lot of the so-called disadvantaged are not merely doomed to failure, but are intrinsically dyscivic in nature and are more likely to drag the genetically advantaged populations down into semi-barbarism than to help the genetically disadvantaged populations become fully civilized on average.
This statement needs to be taken farther. Such policies won't just drag advantaged, civilized populations back toward tribalism and barbarism; they will ensure that the disadvantaged populations become more so. A given population, over time, will either sink deeper into violence and barbarism until its destructive behaviors decimate, subjugate, or extinguish the population, or the population will steadily organize itself into a stable society that progresses toward civilization by giving advantage to those who don't wreak havoc and destruction. Our "help" to disadvantaged populations at home and abroad has the effect of allowing the impoverished and violent to thrive in ways that they normally would not.
It's not just that these liberal policies fail. It's not just that we end up hurting ourselves. We also effectively prevent those disadvantaged peoples from having any chance at civilizing themselves.
But it does mean that with regards to this single factor related to an individual's ability to control his own aggression, an African-American male is 50 times more likely to have a genetic handicap in comparison with a white male.
Don't we see this in football? It's why they do well on defense/WR/RB - those positions are where the higher aggression is useful.
Not so helpful at QB, we've all seen countless examples where either the protection breaks down or their primary receiver is too well covered (or both) and they pull the ball down and run.
Time and again we see where black QB's have a good first season and get mediocre after that. And considering what the Vikes drafted in the first round, we'll be seeing that again, won't we?
Since it is males who build civilization, if you have a population where a significant number of males cannot control their aggression, you will not be able to build civilization.
There also seems to be an implication that even a small number deviants (eg only 5% of blacks possess the two-or-less MAO-A promoters that is correlated with increased aggression) can significantly drive a dyscivic outcome among the vast majority of more peaceful-minded members of the tribe. At least when encouraged to do so by a host society that doesn't give a damn.
Laws requiring non-discrimination in housing and employment crash headlong into this science. The 50-times larger prevalence of unthinking criminals in Africans means that all Africans have a 50-times greater chance of being related to or acquainted with aggressively evil characters. When you hire a man or rent him a house, you don't just hire or rent to him. His entire family and circle of acquaintances become associated with your business or your neighborhood. Even if the African you hire is not in the 5% group, he is much more likely to have ties to someone, or many, who are. This has been proven in real life again and again. One seemingly quiet, civilized African family moves in to a nice white suburb and in a few years, you might as well live in Kinshasa.
@Doom
Then again, it's obvious, by what is happening in Africa, and being supported by the left, is, in essence, genocide.
You got it exactly backwards. The population in Africa is exploding, thanks to the massive amounts of food and medical aid provided by America and Europe. What's going on there is in no way genocide, it is pathological altruism. Psychologically, the Leftists responsible for this mad policy suffer from the same mental disease as animal hoarders do.
I find this to be fascinating. I can also see why Ward and anyone commenting positively on his work is going to be attacked.
The attackers are insufficiently evolved--make them live up to their own bumper-sticker--"evolve, already"
I have two quick questions if somebody cares to take the time.
1. What is the name for this sort of evolution? Is this the 'finch-beak' variety where the finch is still a finch but changing his beak for his environment? or "the other kind"
2. When you say this evolution is happening quickly, please define quickly. Since Tower of Babel quickly? or something else?
kudzu bob,
It is exploding, but not from a lack of effort to make sure as many die of starvation, war, and disease as possible. You, I think, are confusing the gifts that naturally come with, or did, an enriched world... that is, top to bottom, every body gets richer, with what policies are being implemented there.
In the long run, for example, teaching pubescents to be sexually exploratory, in nations rife with AIDS, will end badly. While the medications will keep them alive longer, it will also do two other things. It will guarantee smaller future generations and more disease. They are being used as guinea pigs, and encouraged in contracting the disease.
Two different causes and effects. Africans, for the most part, will die out, and quickly. Especially if there is an economic collapse. That, I think, is a built in default. Get them used to handouts so they will both never be free and, if something happens, they are guaranteed to die out en mass. The left isn't helping them, it is murdering them, and means to. I see they are finally, partially, sometimes, using DDT... but almost over the dead bodies of the lefties. Guinea pigs, trapped guinea pigs, that is the type of soul academia and the medical field has.
If any of the Ilk have not already, read Charles Murray's The Bell Curve.
1. What is the name for this sort of evolution? Is this the 'finch-beak' variety where the finch is still a finch but changing his beak for his environment? or "the other kind"
Microevolution. Yes, the former. Remember, evolution means "change". It does not always mean "Neo-Darwinian evolution by natural selection from one species into another"
I believe that genetic microevolution occurs within species. I am highly skeptical of TE(p)NSBMGDaGF.
2. When you say this evolution is happening quickly, please define quickly. Since Tower of Babel quickly? or something else?
As recently as the last 1,000 years. It is ongoing.
Leftists are able to deny the far more obvious and fundamental physical and psychological differences between men and women, so this won't make them skip a beat. The consequences of long-term reality-denial are catching up to them though.
Maximo Macaroni:
Laws requiring non-discrimination in housing and employment crash headlong into this science. The 50-times larger prevalence of unthinking criminals in Africans means that all Africans have a 50-times greater chance of being related to or acquainted with aggressively evil characters. When you hire a man or rent him a house, you don't just hire or rent to him. His entire family and circle of acquaintances become associated with your business or your neighborhood. Even if the African you hire is not in the 5% group, he is much more likely to have ties to someone, or many, who are. This has been proven in real life again and again. One seemingly quiet, civilized African family moves in to a nice white suburb and in a few years, you might as well live in Kinshasa.
Seen it repeatedly, black family moves in to White neighborhood. These ''pioneers'' are usually what get dubbed ''magic negros'', ''they're just like the Huxtables!'' then comes the Travon dropped off so he ''can turn his life around''. Later, you see they're having a fourth of July party. By 3pm the (c)rap and shit hop start booming. By 7pm the arguments start. By 9pm the fights/screaming starts, half an hour later the cops show up... For the first time. Half an hour later you start hearing bangs and think ''fireworks or firearms?'', and the cops are back.
Then the 'For Sale' and 'For Rent' signs start appearing. Next thing you know your formally nice neighborhood is now just ''the 'hood''.
Do that on a large enough scale and you have Detrafrica.
VD:
Remember, evolution means "change". It does not always mean "Neo-Darwinian evolution by natural selection from one species into another"
I'm also reminded of this: http://tofspot.blogspot.com/2014/01/post-darwinian-evolution.html
There's clearly a lot more going on in genetics and phenotypes than is acceptable to talk about within the "scientific materialist" view. I wonder how much or how little effect such things may be having on recent changes.
I don't know why this is new. When I was first taught the fundamentals of evolution in high school, I understood these implications were obvious and inescapable. No matter if you're talking about microevolution ( which I and most people readily accept) or macroevolution (something I consider dubious), this is how it would have to work. Natural selection and random mutations can't possibly happen simultaneously and homogenously across an entire species. And it doesn't make any sense to think brains are somehow exempt from this process. Some slight changes in the default neural pathways could reasonably cause obvious differences in predispositions that then become positively selected for. This is just common sense stuff. I don't see anything controversial about it.
It has been obvious all along to anyone who thinks logically and in terms of probability. That is a small fraction of the population. What has changed is that with the scientific evidence now in place, all the illogical and binary thinkers who can't deal with anything but being spoon-fed simple facts are forced to either accept the evidence or reject science altogether.
Philosophy > Science > Dogma.
"This is just common sense stuff. I don't see anything controversial about it."
I think the reaction in some quarters is: Let's hope it doesn't become generally known.
Doom May 15, 2014 7:35 AM
kudzu bob,
It is exploding, but not from a lack of effort to make sure as many die of starvation, war, and disease as possible. You, I think, are confusing the gifts that naturally come with, or did, an enriched world... that is, top to bottom, every body gets richer, with what policies are being implemented there.
In the long run, for example, teaching pubescents to be sexually exploratory, in nations rife with AIDS, will end badly. While the medications will keep them alive longer, it will also do two other things. It will guarantee smaller future generations and more disease. They are being used as guinea pigs, and encouraged in contracting the disease.
Two different causes and effects. Africans, for the most part, will die out, and quickly. Especially if there is an economic collapse. That, I think, is a built in default. Get them used to handouts so they will both never be free and, if something happens, they are guaranteed to die out en mass. The left isn't helping them, it is murdering them, and means to. I see they are finally, partially, sometimes, using DDT... but almost over the dead bodies of the lefties. Guinea pigs, trapped guinea pigs, that is the type of soul academia and the medical field has.
Add in another factor - when antibiotics stop working, due to bacteria becoming immune. The populations most hard-hit, will be the ones living in crowded conditions, and with poor nutrition.
When Leftist idiocy leads to economic collapse in the "donor" countries, then the hand-outs stop flowing to Africa.
Then you might see the hungry hordes on the rampage, looting everything they can grab. But in the long run, that won't enable them to survive.
Sometimes I wonder if I should be looking for somewhere off-the-main-road to move to. Join a small community out somewhere that can ride this out, because they're not on the map.
Or something.
VD, you might have heard the expression: "Genetics loads the gun it doesn't pull the trigger".
And over how many generation is this particular set of allele expected to carry? What will cause point variations, inversions, substitutions, deletions, or additions?
Not everyone gifted in violence will have a career in it.
It might just be your next viking doesn't intend to rape, pillage and murder. How disappointed their fathers will be,
Ie. What are the epigenetic triggers.
" Human evolution did not stop at some point in the distant past."
Human evolution didn not start at some point in the distant past. Thanks for the article but it is based on some very flawed premises
I think the reaction in some quarters is: Let's hope it doesn't become generally known.
Of course, you're right. I'm a little surprise, though, that I had those generally naïve thoughts some 40 years ago as a kid and scientists and scholars are just recently examining and fleshing out the details of those mechanisms. I've got to get Wade's book.
"What are the epigenetic triggers."
A statistic that seems to be true. 99% of people who mention epigenetic don't know what they are talking about.
"The content of your character can, on average, be estimated by, if not necessarily the color of your skin, the sum total of your superficial features."
Do white abortionists ow women seeking them differ genetically from pro-lifers?
Does faith in Christ and baptism and other sacraments change genetics?
Isn't aggression "alpha", hence more successful? Game is dyscivic.
1. Not mentioned above (I think) is the massive amounts of money spent by gov'ts trying to fix things that can't be fixed. Like spending almost $30K per student in DC only to score lowest on various tests (see Sailer today).
2. A fun aspect of this is the box it puts the so-called intelligent, anti anti science leftists who love to call conservatives unscientific.
99 % - impressive! Does that show up in "twin" studies on use of the word "epigentic"? like lexicographic topology?
Isn't aggression "alpha", hence more successful? Game is dyscivic.
You have it precisely backwards, tz. Game is obviously eucivic at its core because it allows the smarter and more civilized BETA males to emulate the behavior of sexually attractive ALPHA males. You are confusing the observable rules of attraction with Game.
I'm wondering if there are genetic factors that drive women to choose (or not choose) the sort of man that builds civilization. It seems that many women are driven to have children with men whom will obviously abandon them, yet other women will avoid those kinds of men and instead choose the sort that will protect and provide. Social programs give the former no incentive to make a different choice, but how about the women who make the civilization building choice in the first place?
Or, if the woman's choice is merely cultural/intellectual, in the past there was the knowledge that choosing the kind of man that will abandon you meant that you wouldn't survive. So, it seems that these abandoning traits would not have been dominate in the population. But now, here in the US, having children with these types of men means that you will get more welfare changing the survival incentive towards less civilization building mating choices. It would be interesting to know if the genetic trait distributions have changed over a few generations based on my assumptions here.
Race is not only skin-deep. The content of your character can, on average, be estimated by, if not necessarily the color of your skin, the sum total of your superficial features.
But... but... Glenn Beck, Rand and Ron Paul tell us that is collectivist think.
With the data they had, they couldn't be sure. So, by not being sure, they had to err on the side of equality. Of soul, or personhood, whatever you wish to call it. Since then it has been a lockstep advance into utter failure.
Declaring that all human beings have a God given eternal soul, and therefore that they have fundamental human rights from God, is hardly declaring that all human beings are equal in all respects.
Notwithstanding recent "Pope Francis" comments about equality, up until Vatican II the Catholic Church has been consistent in its teaching about the inequality of humans in their attributes, and how this is beneficial for society.
Leo XIII in his Encyclical Rerum novarum explains how inequality in levels is beneficial for society. Leo XIII teaches:
TIA …
“It must be first of all recognized that the condition of things inherent in human affairs must be borne with, for it is impossible to reduce civil society to one dead level. Socialists may in that intent do their utmost, but all striving against nature is in vain. There naturally exist among mankind manifold differences of the most important kind; people differ in capacity, skill, health, strength; and unequal fortune is a necessary result of unequal condition.
“Such inequality is far from being disadvantageous either to individuals or to the community. Social and public life can only be maintained by means of various kinds of capacity for business and the playing of many parts; and each man, as a rule, chooses the part which suits his own peculiar domestic condition. (RR § 17)
simplytimothy May 15, 2014 7:30 AM
When you say this evolution is happening quickly, please define quickly.
i've pointed this out before but it bears repeating:
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/03/taming-wild-animals/ratliff-text/1
note especially -
1 - domestication phenotype
2 - *NINE* generations
they are doing with foxes exactly what Vox has been talking about with his theory of civilizing human populations.
and it only took them 9 gens to produce notable behavioral differences AND the related changes in appearance.
extrapolate the principle:
a human gen is ~20 years.
someone with a deft touch at designing cultural mores that result in changes in breeding practices ( forced schooling, destruction of family, enhance female preference for Dark Triad traits, etc ) could expect to induce significant genetically driven shifts in population behavior in easily < 200 years.
The content of your character can, on average, be estimated by, if not necessarily the color of your skin, the sum total of your superficial features.
I was just explaining this to my Chinese friend and she said, oh, Chinese already have this. I just searched this term in Chinese and look at all the photos Google pulls up 面相
All of the points with writing are a different personality or reading. Some may have a superstitious component (such as wealth), but clearly there was something to their understanding.
someone with a deft touch at designing cultural mores that result in changes in breeding practices ( forced schooling, destruction of family, enhance female preference for Dark Triad traits, etc ) could expect to induce significant genetically driven shifts in population behavior in easily < 200 years.
And when you don't have as much control as a breeder, it will take at least 1,000 years. If it happens at all.
VD:
You have it precisely backwards, tz. Game is obviously eucivic at its core because it allows the smarter and more civilized BETA males to emulate the behavior of sexually attractive ALPHA males. You are confusing the observable rules of attraction with Game.
Besides that, it's not lack of male aggression which is necessary for civilization. It's controlled aggression. The attempts to neuter men of their masculinity altogether is harmful to civilization in the extreme.
What's clear to me is that the indefatigable champions of universal egality and equality must, of necessity, be crackpot evolution deniers. There's no way around it.
Bob and VD, thanks.
So, time-to-civilization ~= 1000 years is genetic change via "some 'domesticating' process".
I assume that time-to-barbarism and time-to-civilisation are not approximately the same. Heck, they cannot be the same...
1. civilized people will not tolerate barbarism and will remove themselves from the barbaric.
2. with no civilizing influence, the hapless child with civilisation in his genes will not thrive or survive.
...etc.
I have too much on my plate to give this more than cursory thought, but its nice to see the outline of these ideas.
Interesting stuff.
"The content of your character can, on average, be estimated by, if not necessarily the color of your skin, the sum total of your superficial features."
With the caveat that many of one's superficial features, in practice, are heavily affected by behaviour, both historical and current, rather than solely by genetics. Clothing, language and presentation, and entertainment choices are not conclusive proof of character, but they can be fairly reliable indicators depending on context.
And the trick is not just providing education. It's providing incentives. The problem is that in most situations there is already an entrenched structure of short-term but counterproductive incentives that takes a great deal of work to overcome -- and to be effective, that work may have to start earlier and use a stricter hand than is generally considered conscionable nowadays.
Remember to use the left's terms against them when pointing this all out: call them science deniers, and let them know the science is settled.
if that civilization wishes to survive
By all indications, it does not.
Since it is males who build civilization, if you have a population where a significant number of males cannot control their aggression, you will not be able to build civilization.
Similarly, if you have a population where a significant number of males cannot muster enough aggression (i.e., most White men), you will not be able to preserve civilization.
I have a suggestion for you that might also be able to help you ignore the evidence that equality under the law is essential
Barbarians do not think so and Islam scoffs at your assertion.
Have you always hated the uncivilized and their non-standards? or is just your latent privilege that blinds you to their choices?
Please reply using Eubonics.
L. Hirsch,
"I wouldn't even know what forum or community I could share this insight with. Such is the state of thought in Western society."
Multiculturalism creates an in, in that most of the world's cultures already take much of this as obvious. I wouldn't be surprised if this accounts for the popularity of multiculturalism among elite institutions that feel compelled to preach equalism while practicing the opposite.
Addio Africa.
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/africa-addio/
I defy anyone to watch this documentary in its entirety and then deny inherent racial distinctions.
By all indications, it does not.
I suspect that it's more of a problem of confusing causes with effects. For example, the western world in general thinks that education is a cause of civilization when in fact, education is an effect of civilization. It thinks that wealth is a cause of civilization (consider social welfare) when in fact, wealth is an effect of civilization. etc. etc. etc.
So does Jimmy The Greek get his job back now?
It's actually cruel, perhaps even racist, to create social justice programs that do not take genetics into account. That denial of difference at it's core seeks to destroy what it perceives as inferior. The fact that such differences are automatically perceived as inferior is actually quite racist. To deny the evidence of your own inherent racism, eventual annihilation is required, genocide. At the root of many of our social justice ideas, there is a rather fascinating kind of narcissism, that demands the entire world reflect one's own perceptions of one's own non-racism.
The science and psychology behind genetic differences is already well known in political circles, which is why the social justice movement was planted primarily in black churches. The final chapter involved triggering white guilt, pushing those narcissistic buttons, and manipulating the desired behavior.
I doubt we'll survive it all, but feel free to surprise me.
Vox, assuming you are right about all of the above, are there specific policies you would advocate based on this research? Or is the point just that we need to judge each individual on his own merits and not worry about things like trying to make sure prison populations are racially representative of the general population?
"I think the reaction in some quarters is: Let's hope it doesn't become generally known."
Oh, it's already generally known. It's just not (yet) generally known that it's generally known, so people play it safe and mouth the equalist platitudes, which perpetuates the ignorance.
Doug,
"Vox, assuming you are right about all of the above, are there specific policies you would advocate based on this research? Or is the point just that we need to judge each individual on his own merits and not worry about things like trying to make sure prison populations are racially representative of the general population?"
Yeah, the immediate payoff is the elimination of the disparate impact bullshit.
First, do no harm.
Vox, assuming you are right about all of the above, are there specific policies you would advocate based on this research? Or is the point just that we need to judge each individual on his own merits and not worry about things like trying to make sure prison populations are racially representative of the general population?
Yes, I will address these in a future post. No, that is most certainly not the point. In fact, it means we cannot simply judge the individual on his own merits across the board, so long as he remains connected to his population group.
The reason leftists do not want to talk about genetic differences is because they know what their answer will be. It will be massive programs to eliminate those they deem unfit. And it terrifies them that the eugenics monster lives within. Because they've already declared that IQ is the best way to assign worth to someone. And what do they, in the absence of a Christian tradition, do with unworthy lives? They exterminate them.
And what do they, in the absence of a Christian tradition, do with unworthy lives? They exterminate them.
Correct. Moreover, they cannot fathom that although we do not wish to live with the savage and half-savage among us, we do not hate them, we wish to help them, and we view them as our equals in the eyes of God.
But we cannot help them if we permit them to destroy us. We cannot provide them with civilizational aspirations if our civilization descends into barbarism. We cannot force them to behave like us, or even to want to behave like us. And we are sabotaging them by removing their best and their most civilized from their populations.
Desiderius, that's a good point. People do know this stuff; they just don't express it. Many probably don't even let themselves think it. But remove the taboo, let them realize that everyone else knows it too, and that'll change in a hurry.
I know we're all too good for TV here, especially reality TV. But back when I used to watch shows like Survivor and Big Brother, one really interesting thing was how often they would reinforce stereotypes. If there was a black person on Survivor, you could almost bet he or she couldn't swim and/or was none too bright. Gay men (and there was always at least one gay man, although lesbians weren't common) would generally turn out to be huge narcissists. Women would be overly emotional and irrational. And so on.
There were exceptions, of course. But it worked out that way often enough that liberal fans of the shows would actually accuse the producers of stacking the deck, as if Hollywood casting directors were going out specifically looking for lazy blacks and narcissistic gays. You know the truth was just the reverse, so it was all pretty funny from a meta-perspective.
"In fact, it means we cannot simply judge the individual on his own merits across the board, so long as he remains connected to his population group."
As individuals evaluating those with whom we associate, of course.
I'll concede that I haven't delved into the research enough to state that I definitely either oppose or support it. However, I do have questions as to it's overall importance.
By and large, I'm in agreement with most of the folks here politically. However, I've yet to come up with a single political policy that requires one to believe in HBD or any other form of race-based genetic determinism to support it. Nor can I think of one that requires we use such evidence to support such policies.
Whether immigration, criminal justice, opposition to social programs, freedom of association, or whatever else, I can't see how adopting such views would alter my beliefs in the slightest, nor can I see how convincing others to adopt them would make selling them any easier to the public at large.
So if anybody can convince me that it's somehow necessary to view us as members of our groups as opposed to individuals for my political opinions to improve, please do so. Obviously, there are times when we have to judge people based on their group associations (although I'm just as opposed to importing Swedish social democrats as Mexican migrant workers), for the most part, politically we CAN judge based on individual behavior.
If I'm wrong about that, please show me why.
--Martel
LBF,
"Similarly, if you have a population where a significant number of males cannot muster enough aggression (i.e., most White men), you will not be able to preserve civilization."
This (the aggression necessary to preserve and protect civilization) is what the best young women have been selecting for for at least the last twenty years, baffling pajama boys and feminists everywhere. That aggression is not so much controlled as calibrated and channeled in productive directions -> i.e. honor, glory, and virtue.
"It might just be your next viking doesn't intend to rape, pillage and murder. How disappointed their fathers will be"
That decision was not taken in a vacuum. I doubt very much that Leif Erickson would be disappointed to learn that his sons had built a longship that reached the moon. Imagine what they would make of a decent microbrewery.
More than conquerors, not less.
Deuce: "Besides that, it's not lack of male aggression which is necessary for civilization. It's controlled aggression."
Otherwise known as imperialism.
I love that the aggression gene is called MAO.
What do we call the gene that causes the propensity towards imperialism in civilized white males?
"But back when I used to watch shows like Survivor and Big Brother, one really interesting thing was how often they would reinforce stereotypes. ...There were exceptions, of course. But it worked out that way often enough that liberal fans of the shows would actually accuse the producers of stacking the deck, as if Hollywood casting directors were going out specifically looking..."
They were, although it wasn't for the purpose of reinforcing the stereotypes; it was for the purpose of finding individuals who they thought would be (a) entertaining to watch, at least for the assumed majority of the audience (media producers tend to have a very condescending opinion of their audiences), and (b) likely to provoke conflict with the other individuals of the group. Selecting people for common sense, high skill, and lack of interpersonal tension doesn't make for an entertaining show of that type.
(If you want to see reality shows where contestants *are* selected pretty much purely on talent and without interest in personal -- as opposed to technical -- conflict, check out shows like So You Think You Can Dance, Face Off or Jim Henson's Creature Shop Challenge. Those shows are much more about the art form than the personality clash, and are a very different representation of cross-group interaction.)
And what do they, in the absence of a Christian tradition, do with unworthy lives?
They are already doing it right now with abortion and many times ending their own genealogies in the process. It is insanity.
Hi Tad!
VD May 15, 2014 9:17 AM
And when you don't have as much control as a breeder, it will take at least 1,000 years.
that's my point.
use schooling to indoctrinate / amplify dysgenic preferences, especially among the females who have near total control of reproduction and child-rearing now.
you don't actually NEED externally directed breeding if you can induce the subject population to self-select to your desired criteria.
i haven't seen the original research documents but i've heard tell that in some of the low income areas of places like New Jersey, even the white children are testing well under 100iq.
think about it. what ARE U.S. public schools actually teaching successfully?
Pournelle begins every blog post with a quote from 1983. NINETEEN FRICKING EIGHTY-THREE.
"If a foreign government had imposed this system of education on the United States, we would rightfully consider it an act of war.
Glenn T. Seaborg, National Commission on Education, 1983 "
US education today is worse than they could even imagine in 83.
what, then, is US pub.ed. succeeding at?
all you have to do is ask any pub.ed. proponent, and you'll almost always get an answer something along the lines of, "I need for my child to be public schooled so that they will be properly socialized when they grow up."
and there's your answer, right there.
yes, completely undirected breeding probably does take ~1000 years to produce a significant behavioral shift towards or away from civilization.
my contention is that what we see today is NOT "undirected". it just doesn't amount to someone TELLING Mary Sue, "You're going to have 1 child by Billy Joe and 3 by Trayvonius and another 2 by Miguel."
when she chooses to do this out of her own 'free will' ... aided by 13 years of social indoctrination ... and copious .gov aid programs ...
Many probably don't even let themselves think it. But remove the taboo, let them realize that everyone else knows it too, and that'll change in a hurry.
Occasionally, after making a slightly politically incorrect remark to a liberal with whom I'm in conversation, I imagine I see this process in work by the confused look on the liberal's face. It's almost as if you can see the gears moving.
So many of these Bolshevik dolts simply haven't considered the alternative to their deeply-ingrained views, and when they encounter it in a well-reasoned and politely-expressed form it's hard for them to process it.
I suspect that it's more of a problem of confusing causes with effects. For example, the western world in general thinks that education is a cause of civilization when in fact, education is an effect of civilization. It thinks that wealth is a cause of civilization (consider social welfare) when in fact, wealth is an effect of civilization. etc. etc. etc.
Yes, it's typical thinking of liberals/feminists to get the causality backwards.
One of the themes being pushed by the leftist liberal establishment and feminists, is that more and higher education of women will lead a nation to higher prosperity. I've seen this theme repeated several times in the media and on forums. Oprah has even taken up funding schools in Africa for girls. Of course, this is likely based on some studies that show that the higher education of women is strongly correlated with higher prosperity in nations (particularly in Western nations).
This is so brain dead stupid it's out there in la la land. As usual, the liberals have the co-relation backwards. Prosperity leads to more and higher education opportunities for females -- not the other way around. Most of the nations of Africa have a completely substandard infrastructure of sewers, roads, bridges, running water, electricity, and housing if they have these modern amenities at all. Ya, so lets pour money into education for females so they can do what? Twiddle their thumbs with their degrees in psychology, sociology, feminist studies, arts, literature, and education -- where most of the females flock. Women with these types of qualifications are not going to build up a society that doesn't even have basic infrastructure to function at a modern level.
It was the build up of modern infrastructure largely by men, not women, that allowed prosperity in the West in the first place. Even the schools women attended were designed and built by men, not to mention the knowledge base of engineering, architecture, the trades, the sciences and arts that filled these schools that allowed education to even happen in the first place. Pushing higher education of women without even basic modern infrastructures in place is loony and will not lead to prosperity.
Stephen J., you're right, they select for drama on those shows. But they select the white people for that too. That doesn't account for the same stereotypes showing up over and over.
For instance, if the stereotype about blacks being bad swimmers were untrue, and they wanted some bad swimmers and some good swimmers for the purposes of drama, they could just as easily pick black good swimmers and white bad swimmers. But since their main concern is looks and personality conflict, other traits like swimming ability don't get as much attention and tend to reflect the groups.
Or take narcissism: most people who show up on reality TV probably have a decent helping of that. But the gay men nearly always stood out as having it to a diagnosable degree. One fun thing about discussing those shows online was seeing how liberal fans would love a gay man at the beginning of the season, and then partway through they'd realize he was actually a pretty nasty piece of work (especially toward women, usually), and they'd be like, "Who would have guessed?" Uh, I would have and did, and they would have too if they allowed themselves to notice such things.
"What does it matter if someone is a faggot or a commie? We can't just people based on how they act or what they do."
1) Faggotry and communism are actions, stupid. See, I am judging you on your actions, and my judgment is you are a stupid little queer.
2) There is science linking genetics to behaviour. Do you deny science?
Shut up tad
"'we cannot simply judge the individual on his own merits across the board, so long as he remains connected to his population group'
99% of blacks would AGREE with this statement. They judge the merits of whites all the time on skin colour. The difference is they want to judge without being judged.
And what do they, in the absence of a Christian tradition, do with unworthy lives?
That's it exactly. They assume that if I see a black man walking down the street, and I'm allowed to know that his IQ is probably below average and there's a good chance he's been convicted of a crime, that I will want to exterminate or enslave him. Because that's what they want to do with those they consider undesirable. They can't imagine a world where people recognize others as being higher and lower than themselves on various hierarchies and yet are able to live together peacefully without wanting to drag down the higher and kill or subjugate the lower.
And when you don't have as much control as a breeder, it will take at least 1,000 years. If it happens at all.
I would theorize that the culture has a whole lot more control as a breeder (by determining the tastes and mores, and the laws that get passed as a result) now than it did 200 years ago, let alone 1000 years ago. Kinda speaks to what Breitbart was talking about.
cailcorishev May 15, 2014 11:54 AM
and then partway through they'd realize he was actually a pretty nasty piece of work (especially toward women, usually)
yeah, that is pretty funny.
but the fag hags still love them. because Drama and Gossip. ooooooh, so exciting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpJAmlnBxoA
so, uh, what kind of character would you say that the Hutu have?
Gee, I don't suppose it has anything at all to do with civilized white european imperialists trying to exert power over a people and a land where they don't belong?
It's what you civilized jerks do every single time. "Hey, let's go screw with the savages and screw with their power structure and rape them for their natural resources". Then you express mock horror when the people you screwed over for generations start hacking away with machetes.
Screw you, Bob.
"99% of blacks would AGREE with this statement. They judge the merits of whites all the time on skin colour. The difference is they want to judge without being judged."
Is that so? I await the presentation of your data that leads to this very precise conclusion.
but the fag hags still love them. because Drama and Gossip. ooooooh, so exciting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpJAmlnBxoA
I love that song.
"I don't suppose it has anything at all to do with civilized white european imperialists trying to exert power over a people and a land where they don't belong?"
Solipsism.
"Then you express mock horror when the people you screwed over for generations start hacking away with machetes."
Start? Do you imagine this is novel behavior?
Um...porky...African tribea have been slaughtering each other for most of history...I'm not sure how Whitey bears the brunt of the blame.
start hacking away with machetes
More likely, with an iklwa.
Uh, Josh, HUMANS have been slaughtering each other for most of history.
I just think it's either ignorant or disingenuous to point a finger at the Hutu's without recognizing that they were pretty pissed off (and rightly so) at being ruled by an oppressive minority that had been backed by "civilized" white european interests for generations.
Pinky May 15, 2014 12:06 PM
Is that so? I await the presentation of your data that leads to this very precise conclusion.
data? when you've already denied the obvious science you claim you want data?
how bout Jesse Jackson? do you think he has bonafides?
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jesse_Jackson
"There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery. Then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved..."
Josh May 15, 2014 12:15 PM
Um...porky....
i actually think Porky is clowning us with that post.
"I just think it's either ignorant or disingenuous to point a finger at the Hutu's without recognizing that they were pretty pissed off (and rightly so) at being ruled by an oppressive minority that had been backed by "civilized" white european interests for generations."
Bah.
The Hutus are alive aren't they? They should be thankful that they simply weren't wiped off the face of the earth entirely.
African tribes have been slaughtering each other for most of history
Correct. Look at the history of the Bantu colonization of Africa, the ethnic cleansing of different tribes, the rise of the Zulu empire, Matabeleland massacres, Rwanda, etc.. The blacks were at each other's throat long before the Europeans set foot on the continent.
As anyone who has lived and travelled in Africa [which excludes most Negro-venerating White liberals] will know, Africans are spectacularly cruel to one another. The black is his own worst enemy.
although we do not wish to live with the savage and half-savage among us, we do not hate them, we wish to help them
Ooh, look honey. Whitey wants to help us!
...ruled by an oppressive minority that had been backed by "civilized" white european interests for generations.
So it's whitey's fault because they found one group of already oppressive/murderous Africans more willing to work with them than another?
"'we cannot simply judge the individual on his own merits across the board, so long as he remains connected to his population group'
There it is....Read this very closely and consider the implications.
You have utterly failed to do so. You not only draw a wild conclusion unsupported by the statement, but you do not even understand the meaning of the statement. Hint: Banana Oreos.
"Pushing higher education of women [in Africa] without even basic modern infrastructures in place is loony and will not lead to prosperity."
Maybe, but at least it would lead to lower birth rates, which would be part of a platform for prosperity in their context.
Africans are spectacularly cruel to one another.
Napalm, mustard gas, and atomic radiation.
The "cruelty-free"™ choice of the civilized whites everywhere.
Porky:
Otherwise known as imperialism.
Er, no, I just meant that *within a society*, to maintain civilization, men need to have self-control, but also not be patsies with no drive and no willingness to protect women and children.
Porky May 15, 2014 12:24 PM
they were pretty pissed off (and rightly so) at being ruled by an oppressive minority that had been backed by "civilized" white european interests for generations.
an 'oppressive minority' which had been ruling them from BEFORE the Euro nations took over?
an 'oppressive minority' who succeeded in putting an end to genocide and winning a civil war IN SPITE OF the fact that they had just had +500k of their already minority population murdered by the Hutu?
you think maybe the Tutsi are just a teensy bit more capable than the Hutu?
couldn't possibly have anything to do with them generally having lighter skin and somewhat less negroid features ....
i also like what set off the genocide. the Hutu president-for-life signs a treaty permitting Tutsi to hold .gov jobs for the first time in twenty years. and is almost immediately assassinated.
why would the Tutsi assassinate someone who had just liberalized the racialist laws IN THEIR FAVOR?
http://history1900s.about.com/od/rwandangenocide/a/Rwanda-Genocide.htm
So it's whitey's fault because they found one group of already oppressive/murderous Africans more willing to work with them than another?
No. Obviously the africans went to europe looking for an oppressive race of white imperialists to rule them, and after a series of intense, probing interviews decided to award the honor to the Germans, who grudgingly accepted it as their duty.
Don't you ever read wikipedia?
"start hacking away with machetes."
Yeah, they used sticks and stones before the evil white guys gave them better tools....guess the Hutus have some recent history to justify some self righteous pig indignation....but that is an exception to the rule........and what does it say about a group who take out their hatred for whitey on their darker skinned neighbors.....doesn' t help their case much....
"You have utterly failed to do so. You not only draw a wild conclusion unsupported by the statement, but you do not even understand the meaning of the statement. Hint: Banana Oreos."
I understand it perfectly and so do you. You just can't seem to bring yourself to accept the sinister nature of your this person you think so smart. And maybe he is. But so were many of those folks who advocated a similar type or reasoning and concluded the best policy was to ignore individual achievement and character and simply exterminate people based on their genetic or apparent genetic background.
"But so were many of those folks who advocated a similar type or reasoning and concluded the best policy was to ignore individual achievement and character and simply exterminate people based on their genetic or apparent genetic background."
Margaret Sanger? Planned Parenthood? Please elaborate....
With Africans, it's the casual, everyday nature of the cruelty that impresses observers.
Of course it's similar, in a way, to the cruelty expressed by Africans living in the African colonies that we call the "inner city" in the West.
To argue that there's something uniquely deficient about these beings, is I admit putting it mildly.
But so were many of those folks who advocated a similar type or reasoning and concluded the best policy was to ignore individual achievement and character and simply exterminate people based on their genetic or apparent genetic background.
You're missing the point, Pinky. You can no longer deny those differences. They are intrinsic. They are genetic. They are scientifically observed.
Whether you believe it or not, I do not wish to see a single African individual physically harmed. Not one. And whether you believe it or not, the great game of equalitarian make-believe of the last 50 years is very likely to lead to hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of deaths, around the world.
The coming racial and ethnic segregation is absolutely inevitable. The only question is whether it will be violent or non-violent. The only chance we have of avoiding WWII-level body counts is to provide positive incentives for peaceful and voluntary segregation. If we do not, the horrors will be dreadful... and the blood will be on the hands of those who insisted, contra all history and science, that all men are equal.
I am not a Hitler or a would-be Hitler. But I can see such men on the horizon if we do not act to render the attraction to them null and void.
an 'oppressive minority' which had been ruling them from BEFORE the Euro nations took over?
Tell us, Bob K. Neocon, what business did the Euro nations have in East Africa?
As much as Vox assures us that you civilized folks have no desire to live among the savages, history seems to bury this silly notion over and over and over again.
You bastards never could keep your civilization to yourself, and you never will. And when you wipe out all the savages of the world, you will simply begin killing those you deem to be less civilized than the "truly civilized™".
So if anybody can convince me that it's somehow necessary to view us as members of our groups as opposed to individuals for my political opinions to improve, please do so.
Reversion to the mean. Consider the "new black neighbor" example cited above. The new guy may be a prince of a man, the sort of eminently civilized neighbor you feel lucky to have. But the probability is very high that his relatives, friends, and children will not behave like he does.
For the purpose of correctly analyzing the effect of your new neighbor on your own house's value, you must judge him by his group, not by his individual merits.
"Whether you believe it or not, I do not wish to see a single African individual physically harmed. "
Wrong answer, VD. The True Non-Racist says "eliminate 50+% of blacks in the womb." That's what Warren Buffet does. That's what the Democratic Party is all about. Get with the program. Margaret Sanger had the solution years ago.
https://www.facebook.com/BM.WW.LOVE
When you say this evolution is happening quickly, please define quickly. Since Tower of Babel quickly? or something else?
As recently as the last 1,000 years. It is ongoing.
According to the Bible, the human race was reduced to one couple, their sons and daughters-in-law less than 5000 years ago (according to various sources I checked). Is it the belief of Christians that this was sufficient time for mankind to evolve all the different races we see today?
white people have low birth rates
white women are seeking Men of Color
whites are becoming a minority everywhere
soon whites will have no institutional power
"With Africans, it's the casual, everyday nature of the cruelty that impresses observers."
Casual like "walk to the corner clinic and get your baby vacuumed out" casual?
Or casual like "government sterilization of undesirables" casual?
Or casual like "let's test these deadly pathogens on black people" casual?
Help me out here...
Wow just wow. That is simplistic, linear and narrow way to perceive reality. Africans were a population that was disconnected from Eurasia, a place where human population boomed and the birth of trades and crafts took off, including weaponry...more population, richer and consistent land for farming, dairy animials...etc etc..
So Africans were living with their wits under a tropical environment with no access to the development that ASIA, ARABS and EUROPEANS exploited through the famous trade routes like the Silk Road.
EUROPEANS EXPLOITED MORE THAN THEY GAVE BACK! Self titled "King" Neopold alone killed an estimated 10 million Africans for his cocoa enterprise.
You build your perception not by asking yourself tough questions or opening your thoughts to another possibility.....but you reinforcing a narrow line of thought which is motivated by your need to make Europeans (yourself) look good under the historical circumstances.
AFRICANS LEARNED QUICKLY...THEY WERE DEALT THE SAME CRUELTY AS NATIVE INDIANS....THEY KEPT THEIR CONTINENT...
Porky, quit bitching and build a casino already
"Don't you ever read wikipedia?" -- Porky
Please...(wipes away tears)
Please tell me this was a joke!
"According to the Bible, the human race was reduced to one couple, their sons and daughters-in-law less than 5000 years ago (according to various sources I checked). Is it the belief of Christians that this was sufficient time for mankind to evolve all the different races we see today?"
never mind the human race...there are currently over 50 million genetically distinct species on earth...going from that to the most generous estimate of the numbers of animals that could be fitted on a boat 4600 years ago requires the DAILY appearance (not discovery...actual physical generation) of no less than 11 new species...think about that for a moment
@ VD: "For the purpose of correctly analyzing the effect of your new neighbor on your own house's value, you must judge him by his group, not by his individual merits."
LIke I said in my previous comment, I agree that sometimes as individuals we've got to judge based on group. Nevertheless, I've met numerous examples of black about whom I'd harbor no reservations whatsoever about having as neighbors. Deroy Murdock's relatives are probably better behaved than my own.
Still, my question was primarily in regards to changes in POLITICAL belief or policy. I can't think of a single alteration I would make to my political philosophy if I were to be convinced that our differences are primarily biological instead of cultural. Every policy related to race promoted by the left can easily be refuted without resorting to beliefs in HBD, nor are any references to race required rhetorically.
At least not that I can see thus far.
--Martel
Strangely, evangelical atheist kilo papa is silent here.
One often hears that African-Americans have a higher genetic pre-disposition toward heart disease than do Caucasians. This allele that leads to higher levels of aggression could be approached in the same manner, with it being viewed as simply another condition for which an individual (not a race) may have to seek treatment.
What you guys have failed to mention is that all the problems that people of African descent suffer are the direct fault of white men. Its hard to look good when you have destroyed a whole continent by subdividing it recklessly, introducing diseases such as AIDS, polio and others, introducing tribalism, impoverishing the young African governments with debt so as to control them etc etc
Ofcourse we white men will get away with all that because they control the cheese. ... for a while. What they wont be able to do is make the world forget.
Wade is not the first to write about this. Cochran and Harpending wrote all about differential selection of traits in "The Ten Thousand Year Explosion". TTTYE is accessible to the educated layman but is far longer and more dense than ATI (which is less than 300 pages).
Europeans and their Western allies created the AIDS virus in a lab. Biological warfare at its finest. Evil Europeans are worse than the worst terrorists.
" the great game of equalitarian make-believe of the last 50 years is very likely to lead to hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of deaths, around the world."
How? Come on....Stop talking in meaningless platitudes. I know you can do it. After all, you did come right out and say that the way a person acts and lives their lives is secondary at best in judging them to their ethnic background.
How will (what are you calling it? "Equalitarian"....god knows what you mean by that) it kill millions?
"Europeans and their Western allies created the AIDS virus in a lab."
It went from the lab to a monkey. Then a gay African fucked a monkey. Check-mate.
Some people on here make me sick because they don't like to talk about the bigger picture. They always just look at the immediate situation at hand and not the domino effect of historical events. You speak about black and white as if we aren't the same f*cking species. Black and white people are capable of the same level of intellect. Not everyone is born with the same level of opportunity. Human behaviour is a pattern and in extremely poor European countries you see behaviour that mirrors that off Africa. In Europe criminals poach farm animals to feed their family. When a man's family is starving because his economy is broken, culture and knowledge of the land erased, etc and he only knows hardship... How the h*ll do you expect him to act? Some people are so busy seeing colour and culture they forget the simple matter of cause and effect.
It's no suprise to hear white lies from white people the invaders and enslavers Black People.
This post is nothing but another white ignorant attempt to impose themselves on others so they can feel good and important, Africa never one day needed no help from outsiders untill white crusaders, exploiters,liars, cheats who came in various disguises as missionaries, explorers and european savages started coming around.
The truth is now out for all to see, Italians used chemical weapons on Africans while fighting to steal a part of Africa, Ethiopia.
The catholic church invented and promoted slavery from Rome, we Africans know how good Europeans are at lying, cheating, exploiting, manipulating, killing, lynching and how boldly they can turn around and blame their victims.
It's a big shame Europeans think they can get away with their ugliness.
Did you know that when you jump in front of a speeding locomotive, you'll walk away injury-free sometimes?
Excited to see guest and Pinky try this out. Go for it guys.You should't judge all trains, because I can find you a couple of cherry-picked examples where a person who walked in front of a train was not turned into a mangled corpse.
I see all the rainbow brainiacs are popping out of the woodwork, now.
VD May 15, 2014 10:48 AM
Yes, I will address these in a future post. No, that is most certainly not the point. In fact, it means we cannot simply judge the individual on his own merits across the board, so long as he remains connected to his population group.
Thanks for the answers, I look forward to reading the post. I agree with alphaisassumed in that, whether or not you are correct, I don't see any advantage to be gained in pursuing it.
VD May 15, 2014 10:58 AM
But we cannot help them if we permit them to destroy us. We cannot provide them with civilizational aspirations if our civilization descends into barbarism. We cannot force them to behave like us, or even to want to behave like us. And we are sabotaging them by removing their best and their most civilized from their populations.
I understand the concern here, but you lose me on the last sentence. It seems reasonable to assume some among the "best and most civilized" of the less civilized populations would naturally wish to join the more civilized populations and, as far as I'm aware, there's no reason they couldn't be worthy contributors to that group. Assuming you agree with that, would you deny an individual this opportunity based solely on the idea that they have some duty to the potential future propensity for civilization among their own ethnic group? If so, is there an ethical basis beyond naked utilitarianism?
It's no suprise to hear white lies from white people the invaders and enslavers Black People.
Direct question Enyo: What white person here is lying, and what were the lies?
"You speak about black and white as if we aren't the same f*cking species"
As I get older, I find I'm more inclined to consider that we aren't.
The Hutus are alive aren't they? They should be thankful that they simply weren't wiped off the face of the earth entirely.
By whom? Your civilized UN "peacekeepers" in their adorable baby blue helmets?
There is no evidence that black people are less responsible, less moral, or less upstanding in their dealings with America nor with themselves. But there is overwhelming evidence that America is irresponsible, immoral, and unconscionable in its dealings with black people and with itself. Urging African-Americans to become superhuman is great advice if you are concerned with creating extraordinary individuals. It is terrible advice if you are concerned with creating an equitable society. The black freedom struggle is not about raising a race of hyper-moral super-humans. It is about all people garnering the right to live like the normal humans they are.
Porky May 15, 2014 12:37 PM
Africans are spectacularly cruel to one another.
Napalm, mustard gas, and atomic radiation.
The "cruelty-free"™ choice of the civilized whites everywhere.
Look up Carnage and Culture by Victor Hanson. For many reasons, when the West decides to fight, and I mean REALLY fight, they go to war full tilt. Look at the peoples I am familiar with, the Plains Indians. War was almost a game till until the Europeans came. There were some deaths, but very minimal. Often one tribe would raid another, steal their women or (later) their horses, with little killing. It was a game. When they tried with with the pioneers, the first thing they noticed was that when they raided the homesteads, the settlers fought back. And then the settlers decided to make dang sure the Indian raiders never raided again.
This was not expected by the various tribes. See the Western peoples didn't view war the same way. Once aroused, they decided to finish it. The fact that the African nations haven't decided to go full tilt is a good thing, though that is changing. We have South Africans here who may be able to talk about Angola.
"It is about all people garnering the right to live like the normal humans they are. "
Except for the disgusting black little babies in their mamma's wombs. We will root them out and kill the little black fetuses wherever we can. Or at least 50% of them.
There is no evidence that black people are less responsible, less moral, or less upstanding in their dealings with America nor with themselves.
FBI Uniform Crime Report. Marriage rate. Illegitimacy rate. Savings rate. There is a vast quantity of evidence that black Americans are less responsible, less moral, and less upstanding.
You are either extraordinarily ignorant or exceptionally dishonest.
Black People saved the United States of America. They turned the tde during the civil was. They destoryed the Luftwaffe during WW2. They have stood to white terrorsits so that other People of Color could make America stronger.
@ VD: "FBI Uniform Crime Report. Marriage rate. Illegitimacy rate. Savings rate. There is a vast quantity of evidence that black Americans are less responsible, less moral, and less upstanding."
I suppose the difference would be that when whites are bad, it's just whites being whites. When blacks are bad, it has nothing to do with their own choices or culture, it's because whites are bad and make blacks feel so hopeless that they feel the need to lash out at their oppressors by breaking into Rosa Parks' home.
--Martel
"There is a vast quantity of evidence that black Americans are less responsible, less moral, and less upstanding."
...all a direct cause of institutionalized white supremacy.
I view white supremacy as one of the central organizing forces in American life, whose vestiges and practices afflicted black people in the past, continue to afflict black people today, and will likely afflict black people until this country passes into the dust.
Tennessee, thanks for providing an example so promptly.
--Martel
Porky May 15, 2014 1:02 PM
Tell us, Bob K. Neocon, what business did the Euro nations have in East Africa?
uh, i dunno. trying to put an end to the slave trade going towards India and the near East?
what business did the Huns have in raiding throughout Europe?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kalandozasok.jpg
now i'm a Neocon? sweet! do you guys issue a rubber Heeb nose or do i have to go in for plastic surgery?
and the most important question: now that i'm a Heeb, can i own the Clippers next?
Enyo May 15, 2014 1:43 PM
Africa never one day needed no help from outsiders untill white crusaders,
...
The catholic church invented and promoted slavery from Rome
wow. that's some fine Ebonics scholarship you got going on there.
slavery was invented by the Catholic church? you know, that's something that i had never thought to accuse them of.
i'll be sure to tell Hammurabi that he's Roman Catholic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_slavery
Porky,
"Casual like 'walk to the corner clinic and get your baby vacuumed out' casual?
Or casual like 'government sterilization of undesirables' casual?
Or casual like 'let's test these deadly pathogens on black people' casual?"
And who do you blame for that evil? The perpetrators, or some other group? Likewise with the Hutus.
Base human nature requires no God-like evil white boogeyman to explain it. Those who feel that need are the last remnants of white supremacism. Supremely evil is still supreme.
In regards to white supremacy being the reason for every contemporary black problem, in the 1920's whites were more racially-conscious than today, and blacks had more business than they do today. In the 1940's and 50's, we were much closer to the "legacy of slavery" than we are now, yet divorce and illegitimacy rates were often lower for blacks than for their white contemporaries.
So if racism and the "legacy of slavery" are the cause of all blacks' problems, why do their crime rates increase when whites are less racist, and why is it that the farther slavery recedes into the past, the more black families disintegrate?
--Martel
", and will likely afflict black people until this country passes into the dust. "
So in other words, in 20-30 years the issue solves itself? (cause the US will be dust)
Doug Wardell, alphaisassumed, et al,
"Thanks for the answers, I look forward to reading the post. I agree with alphaisassumed in that, whether or not you are correct, I don't see any advantage to be gained in pursuing it."
"FBI Uniform Crime Report. Marriage rate. Illegitimacy rate. Savings rate. There is a vast quantity of evidence that black Americans are less responsible, less moral, and less upstanding.
You are either extraordinarily ignorant or exceptionally dishonest."
By "you", VD could accurately be referring to the majority of those now turned out by our institutions of higher learning, due to the felt need on the part of those who maintain those institutions to keep up the equalist lie, if for no other reasons than that they, like you, see little benefit in challenging it.
Regrettably, that ignorance and dishonesty is not so readily confined to questions of race. It's the externalities that are killing us.
Cotes May 15, 2014 2:11 PM
They destoryed the Luftwaffe during WW2. They have stood to white terrorsits so that other People of Color could make America stronger.
total Luftwaffe fighters shot down by the Red Tails? 112. another 150 destroyed and 148 damaged on the ground.
total aircraft produced for the Luftwaffe? +119,000.
honky be so lame, losses of less than four thousandth of the force 'destoryed' their combat effectiveness.
Ebonics scholarship be without peer, yo.
@redjack: "For many reasons, when the West decides to fight, and I mean REALLY fight, they go to war full tilt."
Yup. For tribal conflicts, go get yourself some savages.
But for all-out-nuclear-mustard-gas-puking-scorched-earth-napalm agent-orange-fire-bombing-hellfire-droning devastation -
only a civilized man will do.
Boy oh boy, the stupid is strong on this thread. [MUNCHES CHIPS]
"But for all-out-nuclear-mustard-gas-puking-scorched-earth-napalm agent-orange-fire-bombing-hellfire-droning devastation -
only a civilized man will do."
Yep, and so those who remembered those horrors set about breeding out male aggression altogether.
Their daughters aren't cooperating.
All these sock puppets, somebody must be busy.
never mind the human race...there are currently over 50 million genetically distinct species on earth...going from that to the most generous estimate of the numbers of animals that could be fitted on a boat 4600 years ago requires the DAILY appearance (not discovery...actual physical generation) of no less than 11 new species...think about that for a moment
I'd rather not get into that issue, and just focus on the question I asked about human evolution. I'm not trying to refute the Bible; I'm an atheist, but not that sort of atheist. I'm genuinely curious about how Christians fit the whole picture together.
Regarding the animals, let's assume God worked some kind of four-dimensional magic on the Ark so that it was bigger on the inside than the outside, and could hold as many passengers as needed.
Regarding the animals, let's assume God worked some kind of four-dimensional magic on the Ark so that it was bigger on the inside than the outside, and could hold as many passengers as needed.
Rex, you are astonishingly off-topic here. This has literally nothing to do with the scientific evidence for human biodiversity or Wade's book.
All these sock puppets, somebody must be busy.
Hey, they drive up my pageviews. Perhaps we can hit one million here at VP alone this month. It's all good.
Thanks, Mr. Soros!
Please explain how my new great black neighbor, who has family 2000 miles away over there and 2000 miles away over there, will negatively effect the value of my home due to his family.
Not definitive, but intuitive.
http://www.trulia.com/home_prices Green areas have lower home property values.
I tested 2 known data points. Camden NJ/Philly and Tampa FL near USF, 41 , Ybor City and 301 (I used to live there)
Both are urban areas. Both are majority black. Both have lousy home values.
http://www.trulia.com/home_prices
Link fixed.
It is interesting that a search for that data pulls on the P.C. bullshit to the top of the search results.
I propose the term "Hernstein-Murray effect" for describing the phenomenon.
Heh, just did a cursory glance at Atlanta.
Porky, here is my point.
If the "White" Europeans (which now I guess includes the Irish) REALLY wanted to destroy the Africans, they would be gone. They wanted to end the AmeriIndians, and most of them are gone.
Rex, you are astonishingly off-topic here. This has literally nothing to do with the scientific evidence for human biodiversity or Wade's book.
I think my original question was at least tangential to the topic, as it did relate to human evolution and the amount of time it takes for populations to separate and diverge genetically. Lud's comment pushed it all the way off, and I was trying to move it back by disposing of his issue.
Desiderius May 15, 2014 2:31 PM
Doug Wardell, alphaisassumed, et al,
"Thanks for the answers, I look forward to reading the post. I agree with alphaisassumed in that, whether or not you are correct, I don't see any advantage to be gained in pursuing it." This was me
"FBI Uniform Crime Report. Marriage rate. Illegitimacy rate. Savings rate. There is a vast quantity of evidence that black Americans are less responsible, less moral, and less upstanding.
You are either extraordinarily ignorant or exceptionally dishonest." This was a response to something that had nothing to do with me nor my thoughts
By "you", VD could accurately be referring to the majority of those now turned out by our institutions of higher learning, due to the felt need on the part of those who maintain those institutions to keep up the equalist lie, if for no other reasons than that they, like you, see little benefit in challenging it.
Regrettably, that ignorance and dishonesty is not so readily confined to questions of race. It's the externalities that are killing us.
I'm fully in support of truth for truth's sake, but Vox said in his response to me that this should impact policy beyond just revoking affirmative action, etc. and that he will post them later, which is specifically what I was responding to. Insert the word "currently" into my response if you must. If Vox's eventual points have merit, then presumably they will show benefit enough for me to pursue it, but I can't consider the argument until someone actually makes it.
That being said, you seem to believe that there are specific benefits to be had by pursuing this idea. Can you enumerate them for me?
@Rex Little -- don't want to continue the derail, but very briefly: a lot of people think the Flood didn't destroy the whole world, just the regions Noah would have known about, a large but localized event (but "the world" to the people first receiving the Torah). If true, most of the world's biodiversity would have been preserved.
[i] The coming racial and ethnic segregation is absolutely inevitable. The only question is whether it will be violent or non-violent. The only chance we have of avoiding WWII-level body counts is to provide positive incentives for peaceful and voluntary segregation. If we do not, the horrors will be dreadful... [/i]
Vox, I cannot even imagine American society coming to grips with the basic axioms to lay out the arguments for this decision, let alone consciously and willingly making this decision.
The future as I see it is chaos, madness, and a herd of millions bumbling around with their lives not knowing where they are going.
"this should impact policy beyond just revoking affirmative action, etc."
It won't, though. The system is run by leftists, and leftists are never persuaded by facts, reasoning, or actual science. They will double down. Just look at this "white privilege" nonsense and "structural racism" nonsense. Translation: There is no longer any observable racism of any consequence (except against whites), but we are not going to give up our goodies, so we will invent endless piles of steaming bullshit to keep the gravy train rolling.
By the time whites realize they are being systematically plundered and get angry enough to actually do something about it, it will be too late: they will be hopelessly outnumbered. The leftists will continue gnawing away until the entire system comes crashing down. They don't know how to do anything else except destroy, and they'll never be persuaded to stop by a couple of papers in a bio-genetics journal. The only realistic hope for whites is secession.
With Africans, it's the casual, everyday nature of the cruelty that makes an impression on observers.
FrankNorman,
"Sometimes I wonder if I should be looking for somewhere off-the-main-road to move to."
I won't say that is the only reason, but that sounded reasonable to me half a decade ago. I'm not sure it's enough. It will have to do. The other option, to me, was to become a "citizen" to half a dozen different countries and never live as a citizen in whichever country I happened to be residing in. A Frenchman in Spain, A Brit in Brazil, wherever seemed more stable and whatever expats seemed more compatible. A perpetual foreigner.
My health doesn't support that, or I would become a world citizen non-citizen. When it breaks, nations are going to be brutal to their citizens first. Foreigners are, at least initially, or for the most part, going to be ignored. Assuming some governmental power remains, and it will to some extent. Of course, even then, a small town or village, with some local propriety and governance, is the best of bets. Especially if somewhat known when locally it hits. Don't think to do that after it hits.
So, if you are going to do that? The time is ripe. Even as a, mostly, cripple, I picked a place where they chose to get to know me. I am sure it wasn't all just... friendly, even if that is how it was presented. Making sure I wasn't trouble, as much as being neighborly. It just works that, with reasonable people, I am neighborly.
If the "White" Europeans (which now I guess includes the Irish) REALLY wanted to destroy the Africans, they would be gone. They wanted to end the AmeriIndians, and most of them are gone.
Umm, don't look now but they just became the most populous group in California.
@ Desiderus/Doug: Good point, Desiderus. Thus far, I've not been persuaded that my variation of "keep[ing] up the equalist lie" (if that's what I'm actually doing) in any way contributes to the degregation of our society. I oppose every leftist race-based program I can think of, yet I do so without having to refer to any sort of biological determinism whatsoever.
Vox says he'll make his case later, which is fine by me. Furthermore, before making his case he's refrained from calling me "ignorant" for asking a perfectly legitimate question. On the other hand, Desiderus seems to be implying that by advocating policies that reward individual merit and refrain from subsidizing bad behavior I'm somehow allied with Al Sharpton because I don't rely on biology to make my case.
So if you're not going to answer my question regarding how essential it is to view others through the prism of biologicaly-based racial theories, at the very least refrain from insulting evasions.
--Martel
"By whom? Your civilized UN "peacekeepers" in their adorable baby blue helmets?"
The British Empire son. The one that conquered the whole damned continent.
Yes, that's true.
We only chopped people to bits with machetes.
But the Brits - they chop their own babies into pieces and then burn them to heat their hospitals in the winter.
I wouldn't want to mess with anyone as civilized as that. White folk be crazy badass.
Again you're quibcagged.
Wading and Dancing with Darwin
Porky
Don't Look, but those californians are not amerindians, they are latinos, which are westerners, they are catholic and they hate the blacks.
If you look closely, the progressives are using the latinos as a weapon against the blacks (Have a black problem in a city? move latinos in, they will get rid of it), oh and those evil white imperialists in Europe and those poor african colonies? The new colony masters are the chinese, and I'm truly sorry for the africans, this new master is neither christian, nor do they have yellow guilt or yellow man's burden. The blacks only friend was the white man, they decided it was their enemy, now they have no allies. In America the latinos will push them away, and the only places where blacks will remain, are alabama and michigan, with small enclaves in some cities. And in africa? they will be enslaved by the chinese.
Don't Look, but those californians are not amerindians, they are latinos, which are westerners
Mestizo, actually. The descendants of ancient ameroindians and their european captors.
You civilized christian bastards conquered them, plundered them, then mated with them.
Is this that vaunted model of "civilization" that you are trying to preserve?
@ Porky: Believe it or not, what the Spanish did was a big step UP from what the Aztecs used to do to the people they conquered. Being enslaved is bad, having your heart ripped out when you're still alive is worse. And the Aztecs had plenty of slaves, too.
This notion that the world was some beautiful paradise until the evil Euros came has got to die.
--Martel
@scoobius: a lot of people think the Flood didn't destroy the whole world, just the regions Noah would have known about
Those who believe the Bible to be the infallible, unerring Word of God can't think that, as Genesis 7:23 says "Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; people and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds were wiped from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark." If there were people left alive that Noah didn't know about, then this passage is the word of Noah, not of God.
So, to clarify, my original question is directed to those who hold that belief about the Bible.
I gotta commend the blog owner for hitting in on all cylinders this week. First the misogynist piece, now the racist one. I'm sure he'll be thumbing his nose at the rabbits with a homophobic piece next.
Quality trolling, indeed
vs. the shitty daily trolling of Obvious.
Umm, don't look now but they just became the most populous group in California.
The Spaniards were just too tolerant. Build a casino, Porky. Get even.
@Rex Little: "So, to clarify, my original question is directed to those who hold that belief about the Bible"
You're the only one who brings this up. You are going to have a hard time finding anyone to defend the little box you've built for your straw "the infallible, unerring Word of God" man, my christian faith certainly doesn't care one bit about it.
You're just stirring up shit that has little to do with the topic of the thread to parade about your cute lil' "gotchas" for Christians. Why not at least wait for a thread that is somehow directly related to troll this crap.
Tiresome trolls are tiresome....
What does he say about the ideas of the "geography plays a huge role" camp, such as the ones presented by Jared Diamond (Guns Germs and Steel is probably the most popular example)
And what does Wade has to say about latinos? Are we screwed too?
what the Spanish did was a big step UP from what the Aztecs used to do to the people they conquered.
Lol!
So, you think it was like "Hey, Aztecs, you're doing it wrong."
And they were like "What do you mean, señor conquistador?"
And they were like "You should try burning at the stake, disemboweling, garroting, drawing and quartering, impaling."
And the Aztecs were like "Wow! Civilization sure is badass!"
Is that kind of how you envision the spread of Christianity was supposed to go?
"Is that kind of how you envision the spread of Christianity was supposed to go?"
If you send a conquistador to do it, yes.
Mestizo, actually. The descendants of ancient ameroindians and their european captors.
What's funny is that Latinas in California are notorious for their attraction to White guys.
ancient ameroindians and their european captors
Oh, I see. The so-called "ameroindians" are ancient, while the Europeans are just captors.
lulz
"MAO-A promoters"
Wouldn't it be ironic if this also promoted collectivist or materialist tendencies via agricultural and dietary choices.
...For some reason I can picture Markku reading the passage from, IIRC, Paul; "'Like brute beasts, fashioned for destruction....' Well, hello Genetic Science, welcome to the club. We've only been saying the same for the past few thousand years."
You have it precisely backwards, tz. Game is obviously eucivic at its core because it allows the smarter and more civilized BETA males to emulate the behavior of sexually attractive ALPHA males.
From a certain viewpoint, civilization is predicated on ensuring BETA males have children of their own that they raise in their own households. It broadens prosperity, increases standards of living, reduces civic violence, and promotes the formation of social capital.
What does he say about the ideas of the "geography plays a huge role" camp, such as the ones presented by Jared Diamond (Guns Germs and Steel is probably the most popular example)
He points out that Diamond is wrong and that Papua New Guineans are not, contra Diamond's assertion, smarter than Europeans. Geography does play a role, but only insofar as it affects the genetics.
@Patrick Kelly: You are going to have a hard time finding anyone to defend the little box you've built for your straw "the infallible, unerring Word of God" man
Oh? I've been reading comments on this blog for probably around ten years, and I've certainly gotten the impression that a great many Christians believe exactly that about the Bible. I could of course be wrong, but I'd guess that Vox himself does.
And my question is not intended as a gotcha. I would think it's something theologians considered quite seriously when they first discovered the existence of the Oriental race.
Geography plays a role in proximity to more civilizing influence from other cultures. This fits in with the time to civilization via encounters with civilization whatever state it is in at the time. It does beg some chicken or egg questions, but I can't completely dismiss geography as an important factor.
@Rex Little.
I'm not buying it. You're bringing it up doesn't pass my smell test as an authentic inquiry. WTF does it have to do with genetic segregation or inherent weaknesses and strengths of races?
Porky Im one of those mestizos, and yes the spanish conquista was an improvement on what the amerindians, they were stone age civilizations, that practiced ritual human sacrifice and the oh so beautiful Flower Wars (wars to kill and capture human sacrifices for the Southern Hummingbird). Whatever advancement the amerindians had, was nothing compared to what their descendants gained.
The smaller the genetic population, the faster the evolution, because there is a greater chance for any particular gene to be selected for and/or not diluted out. The gnu (wildebeest) population is pretty homogenous. The rat populations in the Amazon, cut and divided by many river channels that are hard to cross have much more rapidly divergent gene lines. Small human populations, where generations interbreed largely with first and second cousins, rapidly take on "distinctive regional characteristics," which sometimes doctors refer to as "FLK," for "funny-looking kids." Look at some small traditional coal-mining towns in west VA, for example. Tribal regions in the ME and Africa see this a lot - something like 1/3 of all high-needs kids (serious mental/physical defects) in the UK are from recent immigrants that represent only 1% of the population, and almost all have a family tradition of marrying "within the clan."
It always puzzles me why facts are so controversial - I can understand why the question of "what to do about them" is, but why are people so reluctant to face objective, measurable reality? I suppose it has to do with not having to wake up from Magical thinking, but don't people want to do something that actually WORKS, as opposed to doing something that is not only isn't likely to work, but may actively make a problem worse?
Patrick Kelly,
"I'm not buying it. You're bringing it up doesn't pass my smell test as an authentic inquiry. WTF does it have to do with genetic segregation or inherent weaknesses and strengths of races?"
Eh, give the guy a break - since Fred Phelps died, things just haven't been the same for poor Rex.
Likewise, Porky's nostalgia for white supremacism would be amusing if it weren't so dangerous. There's lots of corrupt money to be made fighting the Great White boogeyman.
“They are intrinsic. They are genetic. They are scientifically
observed.”
SOME are proven scientifically, yes. Others are decidedly under intense debate; only their acolytes pronounce them as “truth”.
“The coming racial and ethnic segregation is absolutely inevitable. The only question is whether it will be violent or non-violent.”
The conditions that you profess will exist is simply an estimate based on circumstances reflective of the time periods you use to make that determination. Considering within the past one hundred years the advances in technology and the interconnectivity and diversity that has been borne from that technology, predictions about future racial tranquility are logically based on these NEW patterns of human interaction, not antiquated notions.
“that all men are equal.”
Fundamentally. Under the law as determined by the citizens of country,
per the social contract.
“But the probability is very high that his relatives, friends, and children will not behave like he does.” “His wife and kids are the potential issue”.
Human behavior. Not race based.
“FBI Uniform Crime Report. Marriage rate. Illegitimacy rate. Savings rate. There is a vast quantity of evidence that black Americans are less responsible, less moral, and less upstanding.”
Human behavior. Not race based.
“They can't imagine a world where people recognize others as being higher and lower than themselves on various hierarchies and yet are able to live together peacefully without wanting to drag down the higher and kill or subjugate the lower.”
Son, you do realize that world does exist today, right?
"With Africans, it's the casual, everyday nature of the cruelty that makes an impression on observers."
"Banksters", not "Africans".
“they cannot fathom that although we do not wish to live with the savage and half-savage among us, we do not hate them, we wish to help them, and we view them as our equals in the eyes of God.”
Except the problem with this approach is that “barbarism”, “civilized”, “savage”, and “half-savage” are subjective in nature. Always has been, always will be. So this brand of racialism truly has no bearing on the MPAI crowd, who are generally content with either 1) already living in segregated neighborhoods and 2) prefer living amongst the “vibrants” in peace and harmony.
Because, invariably, when these racialist practices are justified by the elitists here to MPAI, the extermination trait inherent in all human beings come shining through in spades, regardless of assurances that “we” are here to “help” them, that “they” are equal in God’s eyes.
“But it worked out that way often enough that liberal fans of the shows would actually accuse the producers of stacking the deck.”
It is NOT an accusation, it is fact. Reality TV has a well-documented history of distorting human personality by putting people together in artificial situations to produce explosive social dynamics, and, when that failed, drastically edited scenes, dialogue, and situations to get the desired results. Producers of these shows routinely and purposely used psychological profiles to target individuals befitting of stereotypes for ratings.
“What do we call the gene that causes the propensity towards imperialism in civilized white males?”
a. Religion.
b. Christians.
c. Blue Sci-Fi authors.
d. All of the above.
“use schooling to indoctrinate / amplify dysgenic preferences, especially among the females who have near total control of reproduction and child-rearing now.”
Leftism, Christianity, conservatism, Marxism, etc. are ALL indoctrinations. Pick your poison.
“all you have to do is ask any pub.ed. proponent, and you'll almost always get an answer something along the lines of, "I need for my child to be public schooled so that they will be properly socialized when they grow up."
And all you have to do is ask any pub. ed opponent, and you’ll almost always get an answer something along the lines of, “I need my child to be homeschooled so that they will be properly socialized when they grow up.”
So, who’s right? No one really knows. It’s a crap-shoot.
drag the genetically advantaged populations down into semi-barbarism
Tangential point that the phrase genetically advantaged populations brought to mind. The term White Privilege should be rephrased as Genetic Privilege, just for the giggles.
Wardell/alphaisassumed,
"This was a response to something that had nothing to do with me nor my thoughts"
No, it was an answer to your question. You (both) had an opportunity to respond in good faith and found excuses not to do so. Can't say I'm surprised. If we've produced a dishonest and ignorant generation (care to argue that we have not?), then that's a problem, and a problem that flows directly from the necessity to defend the equalist lie in the face of overwhelming contrary evidence. When real contradicts ideal, the ideal changes or becomes corrupted.
The disingenuous passive/aggressive "I can't think of any reason to challenge the equalist lie, can you?" is par for the course for your average "conservative." Somehow your forefathers found reasons to grant truth (and Truth) her rightful due, both instrumental and intrinsic.
Why can't y'all seem to get it up?
Porky Im one of those mestizos...
emilio, I'm not suggesting that your amerindian ancestors weren't assholes.
I'm just dubious about anybody who thinks "civilized" people are somehow a better class of asshole.
Look at you. You are descended from two of the great asshole civilizations. In Vox's parlance you are now only about 1/3 savage.
Unfortunately you are 100% asshole by birth.
Personally, I'm about 97.5% savage, but I'm only 90% asshole, which entitles me to send a ship filled with savages to settle in your village and demand that you convert from catholicism.
> Considering within the past one hundred years the advances in technology and the interconnectivity and diversity that has been borne from that technology, predictions about future racial tranquility are logically based on these NEW patterns of human interaction, not antiquated notions.
As far as I can see, the interconnectivity and diversity you mention has only resulted in replicating existing patterns of behavior, not created new ones.
@Desiderius: since Fred Phelps died, things just haven't been the same for poor Rex.
Not sure what you meant by this. I had to Google Fred Phelps just now to find out who he was. If his death caused anything to change in my life, I haven't found out what it is.
@ Desiderus: "If we've produced a dishonest and ignorant generation (care to argue that we have not?), then that's a problem, and a problem that flows directly from the necessity to defend the equalist lie in the face of overwhelming contrary evidence.:
Yes, the current generation is ignorant, and regarding gender-equalist lies, I'm with you all the way.
However, a lot of the crap I see spewing from the left is rhetorically all about the races being equal but all about racial hierarchies in practice.
To the left, blacks as a race are uniquely absolved of all wrongdoing or responsibility for their own lives. All current social ills stem from either racism or the legacy of slavery. We've no right to expect Taniqua to not have three kids by her seventeenth birthday because of racism. Without affirmative action (help from whites), we won't have ANY blacks in our institutions of "higher learning". On one hand, they claim we're all equal, but on the other hand it's beyond ridiculous to expect kids in our inner cities to even learn how to read.
I advocate individual accountability and responsibility, which neither refutes nor supports racial equalism. I don't care whether blacks or Asians are naturally good at math and science. I merely believe that medical schools should admit whoever's demonstrated the most propensity to succeed in medicine. Perhaps this means there will be no blacks, perhaps not. That's not the point.
Maybe 9,999/10,000 blacks will never be able to learn their times tables, but that one who can should be allowed to use his brains as far as they will take him. If I have to judge people based on their ancestry, I might, but for the most part, I don't.
The "lie" upon which these beliefs is based is hardly the lie that's infesting our culture and educational system. I want individual accountability, they want favors and differing standards based on race. Not the same thing at all.
If anything, if we "prove" that blacks aren't as capable as whites, I can easily see the left twisting this to mean we "owe' them even more reparations or welfare. Today they claim Jamaal can't do it because of society, blaming biology tomorrow isn't that much of a stretch. Schools make a butt-ton of money for every kids they can claim to be 'learning disabled"; labeling an entire race as such wouldn't bother them in the slightest.
Yet my question remains unanswered: How would a greater emphasis on biology improve my political views? If I adopted and emphasized some form of HBD, how would that help me fight the likes of Al Sharpton in ways I can't do it now?
I've read about how "obvious" it is and how "ignorant" people like me are innumerable times, but I've yet to encounter a decent attempt to explain WHY it's obvious or exactly how blaming Jamaal's poor behavior on his biology (as opposed to racism) is going to improve much of anything for either him or me.
--Martel
Alphaisassumed said "Yet my question remains unanswered: How would a greater emphasis on biology improve my political views?"
Simple. If you recognize that there are some biological differences between people, then it follows that there will be different outcomes strictly because of biological differences. That means that you cannot simply assume that differential outcomes are the result of racism, prejudice, hatred, bigotry, or any other buzzword. It is then possible to set and use objective standards for ability and competence when hiring/firing, and let ability be promoted on the basis of merit, and not get all hung up on various head-counting metrics that try to equalize outcomes based on non-critical criteria, such as skin color. In other words, an explicit recognition of individuals as individuals helps move away from identity politics and group-think, and toward policy based on merit and actual effectiveness, not simply claimed intent.
Conversely, if you assume "we are all really the same," then if follows that differential outcomes must be because of something "social," such as racism or hatred. If you you focus on biology, and the particular individual, and say "It is your choice to do well, or not, and you are not going to be given an easy out by blaming others," then people have to (more) realistically asses their circumstances and choices. When people are constantly being handed excuses for their failures by the truckload, why should they change, and start making better choices, and calling our their peers for doing stupid stuff, too?
What is it they say as the first step in recovery programs? "Admit there is a problem," I think. In other words, recognize reality, and stop with the lame "blame everything and everyone else" excuses and take ownership of your choices.
“FBI Uniform Crime Report. Marriage rate. Illegitimacy rate. Savings rate. There is a vast quantity of evidence that black Americans are less responsible, less moral, and less upstanding.”
Human behavior. Not race based.
Hmmm...maybe the melanin made them do it. Yep, that must be it. .
Scooter, your Prius just doesn't have enough juice for this track. So, I'll put into the form of a Scooby Doo ending for you: you might have gotten away with it if it wasn't for those pesky facts!
"Those who believe the Bible to be the infallible, unerring Word of God can't think that,"
If you're going to keep clinging to this like a Rottweiler there's not a lot more anyone can help you with. You should ask a Torah scholar what they think -- unlike the New Testament, which is written in plain Greek and is straightforward, the Torah is written in Hebrew and is interpreted in scholarly, quasi-mystical ways. Even though the text may appear plain, it may be read in unexpected ways by a Torah scholar.
Put it this way. "The infallible Word of God" is one way to think about it. Another is, "What God said to Man that He wanted them to know, and how He thought they should know it." He was, after all, addressing a bunch of primitive escaped slaves in the middle of a desert, and His goal was to raise them into a priestly people. The Bible says a lot of things about morality, spirituality and society, but it doesn't say useful things like, oh, Wash your hands before delivering a baby, or The Americas exist. Why? Beats the hell out of me.
Ultimately, if you're not a believer, that's your business not mine. If you are a believer and these questions still bother you, you'll get a chance to ask God about it yourself eventually.
Rex,
"Not sure what you meant by this. I had to Google Fred Phelps just now to find out who he was. If his death caused anything to change in my life, I haven't found out what it is."
Rex, we are way off topic here, but you seem like a decent fellow, if a little lost.
If you're determined to try to make a doctrine of inerrancy work for you, here's your best bet.
"I've read about how "obvious" it is and how "ignorant" people like me are innumerable times, but I've yet to encounter a decent attempt to explain WHY it's obvious or exactly how blaming Jamaal's poor behavior on his biology (as opposed to racism) is going to improve much of anything for either him or me."
As I said, if you don't value truth - again, on grounds both instrumental and intrinsic - you're as much the problem as Jamaal. The specific policy doesn't matter. When authority embraces lies, or refuses to challenge them (cowardice will be assumed, whatever rationale you come up with to ease your conscience), that authority is undermined for all policies, especially those that involve the education and moral development of the young.
Other than that, I agree with all you've said, and Rolf gives you a good start on some low hanging fruit.
Both of your comments extraordinarily well-written.
I'll reiterate the point that Porky made for Sti(tches) and Delirious--I'm just dubious about anybody who thinks "civilized" people are somehow a better class of asshole.
Now, I'll reiterate my own point--Leftism, Christianity, conservatism, Marxism, etc. are ALL indoctrinations. Pick your poison.
"Civilized" people are a more efficient class regardless of their disposition. Maybe a case can be made that inefficient is "better", but it would need to be cogent to be compelling.
I don't think indoctrination means what you think it means, Plethora. Critical contra uncritical are important differentiating factors here. Leftism, with its inherent relativistic ambiguity, and conservatism, with its sometimes amorphous delineations, may occasionally qualify, but the other two don't.
Scoob, if most Christians don't think that Genesis is to be read as literal truth, then my original question is moot. I was under the impression that a majority, or at least a large minority, of Christians (the serious ones, not Unitarians or the like) did believe that. If I'm wrong about that, I'm happy to stand corrected; I don't care about it one way or the other.
My interest in Bible-related questions such as this is similar to a Trekkie's interest in Klingon history or language. I don't believe it's real, but I like finding out how the internal logic hangs together.
Post a Comment
Rules of the blog
Please do not comment as "Anonymous". Comments by "Anonymous" will be spammed.