上位 200 件のコメント全て表示する 305

[–]Geldeintreiber [スコア非表示]  (22子コメント)

OP usually posts a lot about coin mixing and monero and how to fund accounts on drug markets: https://www.reddit.com/r/AlphaBayMarket/comments/5k24l6/bitcoin_trail/dbkvp2n/. There are probably other reasons for this than the police states right now.

[–]Digi-Digi [スコア非表示]  (16子コメント)

+1 and LOL!!

OP is selling Xany bars, gets busted, and so flames out immigrants.... hillarious

[–]notyourbrah [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

how convenient to leave that out... this post is trash, "she" probably got caught selling

[–]goonsack [スコア非表示]  (10子コメント)

Xany bars

How is OP connected to this?

[–]Kaliko_Jak [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Xanax bars

[–]goonsack [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Ya I know but how is OP connected to them is what I was asking. I realize it wasn't clear now so edited my post above.

[–]Kaliko_Jak [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

My bad. Had a look through OPs history connecting to xanax exactly, just general drug use.

[–]blocknewbredditor for 2 weeks [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

explain to me how dodging taxes (which is essentially what we all do) is somehow less immoral or illegal than doing/selling drugs?

this whole concept makes no sense to me... get over yourselves

[–]ThomasVeil [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

explain to me how dodging taxes (which is essentially what we all do)

Really? How? Buying crypto is a legal investment. And if you tell the tax office when you sell it to Fiat, then it's not tax dodging. So far I hodl.

...is somehow less immoral or illegal than doing/selling drugs?

I would say so - pretty damn sure. And even so: The cops won't raid your place with 6 people if all they suspect you to do is dodge taxes for 12.000 bucks.

[–]Pink-Fish [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Are you trying to say the police are morally justified in what they're doing?

[–]Geldeintreiber [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

No. I am saying that people probably do not need to worry about the police if they are trading Bitcoin and crypto in Germany. Even in high volume. OP is spreading fud. Trading bitcoins is itself not illegal in Germany.

[–]SerhaTR16 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You do not get the point. The problem is not the currency itself. It is a money laundering prevention from the German finance authorities. Cashing out or trading with Monero with greater sums on exchanges which are based in Germany you would be fucked up, too.

[–]Elwar [スコア非表示]  (24子コメント)

Same thing happened to me last February. They took all of my computers and accused me of money laundering. I hired a lawyer and after a year they finally dropped the charges and gave me everything back. It is completely legal to own and sell bitcoins in Germany.

Now I am looking to sue Germany for the trouble. I wish I could take down the whole EU with it. PM me for more info. I took the strategy of not saying shit about it online so they could just sit there waiting for me to say something they could use against me.

[–]3_Thumbs_Up [スコア非表示]  (9子コメント)

This is the advice you should listen to OP. Don't say a word to the police except "I'm not going to talk to you without legal counseling".

If the payments happened this year you probably haven't done anything illegal. Buying and selling bitcoins is not illegal. If the payments happened last year you have likely broken some kind of tax law in Germany. Either way you want legal ciunseling (and if you can't afford a lawyer they will have to provide one for you or drop the charges).

[–]nikize [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

There are laws for how big amounts of money you are allowed to transfer between individuals, as in if you go over a certain limit you need to explain why, and you also need to know who the other party is and that there is no money laundering involved. Otherwise you can get charged with money laundering violations.

[–]3_Thumbs_Up [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

This wasn't between individuals though. It was from one of OP's account to another. Either way I'm not saying she should refuse to explain anything. I'm saying she should take legal counseling first.

[–]dlerium [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

In the US there are laws for gifting, yes, but large transactions happen regularly. Business transactions are easily over $10,000 and happen on a daily basis. It doesn't mean if you transfer $50,000, you are 100% required to explain what happened, but if law enforcement thinks you are doing something suspicious, they might contact you to explain yourself.

You can't simply be arrested for transferring the money unless they really have proof of you money laundering. Simply a dollar amount is insufficient evidence for anything.

Now what's more likely is OP's money was mixed with some illicit business. If they just busted a child porn ring (hypothetically) and they found 12,5000 EUR going to a Bitcoin address which then cashes out to fiat under your name, would you blame law enforcement from being a little suspicious?

[–]nikize [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

How is US law relevant to EU/German legislation?

It is unlikely that Bitcoin has anything to do with the case at all. If you do a transaction over 10000EUR you are obligated to know where the money comes from. For example if you try to deposit even 1000EUR in cash then The bank can deny and are even obligated to contact the Police if you can't explain where the money comes from. This is part of anti money laundering legislation. That's just facts.

[–]ThomasVeil [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Fully agree here. There are such laws - but they won't bust your door with 7 coppers just to ask you if you know where your money went. Something more nefarious must have been going on here.
(Most likely at least, also considering the context - and that in Germany the police is not as raid-happy as in the US. But sometimes the police gets a bit stupid too.)

[–]Elwar [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

This is the case. My bank did call me to inquire about the transfers but with not being able to speak German and not having my phone during work hours they finally gave up on me and just contacted the police after several bouts of phone tag.

[–]Insan2redditor for 3 months [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

Really worrying you don't even have the freedom of how you use or store your own money than?

Makes me think we need to protect our private keys on a better way if government can just seize all your funds even if you aren't doing anything illegal.

EU is getting pretty sick.

[–]bicyledayredditor for 3 months [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

EU is getting pretty sick.

Some time ago they laid charges on people here in Germany, just because they had a few million in Swiss bank accounts they never declared. Now this! Isn't one even allowed to evade taxes in peace anymore? Damn EU, this needs to stop!

On a more serious note: We are going to see more of this in the future, trust me. And not only in Europe! Governments will be suspicious of Bitcoin, naturally. But so far they haven't made it illegal anywhere, which I find quite surprising. Maybe Bitcoin isn't big enough yet. Gotta wait and see what becomes of it.

[–]Rdzavi [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

They can't make it illegal. It would be like if they make intetnet illegal, sure, then you could easily spread you propaganda but nation would be left behind on so many levels in grand scheme of things.

[–]drewshaver [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The best way you can protect your private keys against this (and a number of other scenarios) is to use a strong passphrase that isn't written down anywhere.

[–]Steve132 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Makes me think we need to protect our private keys on a better way if government can just seize all your funds even if you aren't doing anything illegal.

Make your 12-word HD-wallet seed offline on a raspberry pi from dice entropy. Memorize the key. Generate the epub for it and copy it back. Microwave the SD card.

[–]NeonDisease [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

They took all of my computers and accused me of money laundering. I hired a lawyer and after a year they finally dropped the charges and gave me everything back.

And just think of all the taxpayer resources that were wasted on this fishing expedition.

Burglary, assault, and rape victims are waiting for justice, meanwhile the cops are harassing people who have not broken any laws.

[–]nad49redditor for 6 weeks [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

do you have any legal advice we poor creatures living in mordor can read or there is no possible hope against the always vigilant EYE in the central mountains in the continent?

[–]EinsteinsHairStylistredditor for 3 weeks [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You could just say illuminati, or all seeing eye, or NSA surveillance systems :p

[–]Munchie_King [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Hope you're not using the same machine they handed back.

[–]Elwar [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I know better than that. I have 3 computers that are bricks right now and a cell phone that I will also never use.

I am in the process of gathering all essential data from them before I dump them. One computer had 1000 LTC on it. Didn't really secure them because...well, they're LTC. Was glad to find that wallet.

[–]MounumentOfPriapusredditor for 7 weeks [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I ran realsony through snoopsnoo.com. She is an admitted darkmarkets drug dealer. She is committing real serious crimes. I think that those 'crimes' should be legal, but the German government disagrees with me.

German police say that she is a money launderer and financing criminal enterprises? They are right.

I took the strategy of not saying shit about it online

How smart you are. How foolish realsony for posting this. I assume that the German police will be reading this thread.

My heart is with her. I hope she weathers this without going to prison. I wish she would wise up and stop incriminating herself on reddit.

[–]Elwar [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The reason they came was because of the bank transfers or deposits. For me they pointed out that I had deposited over 30,000 euro over the course of a year (not a big amount for me). And that I had done a lot of wire transfers to foreign countries (I used Bitcurex which was located in Poland).

The biggest problems with Bitcoin all exist in the fiat world.

Check out http://bitcoinspender.com to learn how to live 100% on bitcoin in Germany.

[–]BitcoinAuthority [スコア非表示]  (16子コメント)

As a German who has been using both Kraken and Fidor (the bank she implies she is using) for a somewhat higher trading volume regularly for years, I'm tending to call BS on this.

[–]poulpe [スコア非表示]  (13子コメント)

This sounds extremely fake. If anything OP's post history shows that she might not have used bitcoins for very legit reasons (drugs, darkmarkets), or it's just a post to eventually advertise monero.

[–]tmc_throwaway [スコア非表示]  (12子コメント)

Also, the refugees comment and ranty/preachy stuff makes me think BS with an agenda.

[–]poulpe [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Definitely sounded weird but then again there is a real overlap between the_donald users (and similar ideologies) and bitcoin/crypto currency users so although weirdly placed in that story, not improbable.

[–]readyou [スコア非表示]  (8子コメント)

What? I am German and can tell you we have really heavy issues with refugee crime in our city.

[–]Pink-Fish [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Why the government continues to let them in is beyond me.

[–]readyou [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I have no idea. Maybe it's cheap labour or I don't know... I start to get insane and think there is a bigger agenda than just helping.

To be honest, I wouldn't even care. I'd take hundreds of thousands Japenese, American, French, Britisch or [insert almost any nationality] fellows.... I really don't get why I never see these immigrants in masses.

In fact I would even like to socialize with people from different places and would welcome them here. But so far, all we get are people that exploit us, harrass us and so on. And if you call them out, like saying they are mostly arabic or muslim, you'll be called racist, nationalist. I start to stop caring... should they call me however they like... this doesn't frighten me and I will continue to mention my experience with the so called "cultural enrichement".

As much as I'd like to help refugees, it's really hard to do that when they create their own circles, don't speak or learn our language, create their gang structures and so on.

Our city has some old historical buildings... when I for example see Asian tourists, they approach you and smile, some do even ask questions in English or want to learn about the place... these people for example make you smile and make you become as curious about them, to the point that you start to ask them questions too, like where they are from and if they need any tips about our location and so.

I get there is a major difference between a tourist and a refugee, but I wonder if this difference really should be there?

Let's say my country is in civil war and I want to get out of here... I'd be glad if I am welcomed in another nation. I'd want to set a new home, learn about my new place, make friends, learn the language and hopefully get a job to contribute.

It's nuts. I will never understand how someone can enter another nation without accepting the values and laws there.

[–]TheMormonAthiest [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Guys, it's Merkle, the EU and Soros. It's the Elite Globalists. Vote their asses out of office for once and save your own country.

[–]TheMormonAthiest [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

So rapes of women are up hundreds of percents since taking on millions of Muslim refugees and you call BS when a German woman is angry that she can't go outside anymore without fear of getting attacked and the stupid EU won't even let he carry mace or a knife to protect herself (which is a real law).

Sounds like you are the one with the agenda. Or at the least seriously uninformed.

[–]jjjuuuslklklk [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Seems like fuddy BS to me too. I think a majority of the new influx in bitcoin interest is coming from the EU, and it looks more and more like the EU is going to become a failed experiment within the next couple years. The buying power of EU citizens savings in euros will go down if the EU starts to break up.

The people opposed bitcoin/financial freedom/privacy are trying everything they can to slow bitcoin's adoption. If this is truly fud, then they're getting super desperate, and it's sad and pathetic in a way. You got beat by computer geeks, face it.

[–]Pink-Fish [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I dunno. Others say its happened. Governments are not moral instruments.

[–]Jolu- [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Soooo WHAT THE FUCK???? In what place/world do I actually live? Not only that i cannot feel very safe in germany due to millions of new instrusive citizen(refugees) whoa lot just never learned minimum behaviour rules to women and I am not allowed to have a teaser or a knife or whatever.

What the fuck is that part about - are you serious? Looks like we live in totally different Germanys then.

[–]NotARealDeveloper [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Well that's a pretty shitty thing to say about refugees...

[–]coinx-ltc [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

You need to notify the Bundesbank if you receive / send transfers over 12,500€ from / to foreign accounts. It is only for statistical purposes. The IRS (Finanzamt) is not involved.

Not reporting is only a misdemeanor.

You should get a lawyer. There seems to be a overreach and obvious misconduct by the police.

Robberies and sexual crimes are increasing but the police goes after people failing to report for statistical purposes. Germany 2017...

[–]EinsteinsHairStylistredditor for 3 weeks [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm confused. Isn't the notifying/explain-yourself thing a part of the transfer itself, like your bank would require you to fill out forms for large amounts? Or maybe that's not the way in Europe.

[–]goocy [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

No, the police is not going after misdemeanors. OP is a drug dealer.

[–]nofoxweregiven [スコア非表示]  (45子コメント)

I will be speaking in german because its easier to explain for me. Use google translate if you need to know what I am talking about.

Du musst jede Transaktion über 10,000€ beim Finanzamt anmelden. Sei es Bargeld oder Überweisung Banken melden automatisch jede Transaktion über diesem Betrag beim Finanzamt. Diese haben dann wohl Bitcoin gesehen und direkt die Blauen alarmiert. Das ganze ist in der ganzen EU so um Geldwäsche entgegenzuwirken. Der PC kann übrigens sehr sehr lange einbehalten werden wenn die es wollen.

[–]nofoxweregiven [スコア非表示]  (9子コメント)

Übrigens müssen auf Bitcoins die über 1 Jahr in deinem Besitz sind keine Steuern abgegeben werden.

[–]realsony[S] [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

Wie will man das denn nachweisen? Das ist ja nicht wie bei Aktien mit festen Wertpapiernummern. Ich habe bisher immer BTC auf bitcoin.de gekauft, diese dann alle an Polo gesendet und auch dort vermehrt :) Dann ab und an wieder coins von Polo and bitcoin.de zurück. Das ich mal mit mehr als 12500 gehandelt habe kam die letzten 4 jahre vielleicht 4-5x vor...sonst viele kleine Trades wenn BTC mal wieder crashte. Ich mein ich habe ja keine 100.000 Euro oder so, bei weitem nicht. Wenn ich 2x für 12.500 kaufe und 2x für 12.5000 verkaufe, habe ich ja keine 50.000EUR. Aber genau so haben die Experten hier vorhin mit ihren Listen rumgefuchtelt. Die haben einfach das komplette Volumen genommen. So nach dem Motto "Sie haben 1x mehr als 12.500 gehandelt, deshalb haben wir das Recht alle Transaktionen zu bewerten" Naja, werde die Woche ein Termin beim Anwalt machen!

[–]TulipTrading [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Just to clarify: did you buy or sell >12.000 EUR amounts through bitcoin.de (from your bank account)? Or just moved that amounts from bitcoin.de to polo and back?

[–]realsony[S] [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

bought and sold AND moved

[–]logariya [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You really need to shut up now. If you're accused then everything you are saying can beheld against you. Even if you are innocent and say something the wrong way, you can be held on that. Just shut the fuck up and only talk to your lawyer until this ends. Good luck.

[–]BrushGuyThreepwood [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

delete your message. talk to a lawyer and you'll be alright.

[–]SerhaTR16 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Hast du denn je mehr als 10.000€ auf dein Bankkonto auszahlen lassen? Das wäre doch eine wichtige Tatsache, oder waren es nur die Trades?

[–]-yararedditor for 3 months [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

they probably have the right to investigate every transaction if one was over 12,500 eur.

and please delete your post history.

[–]BoozeItLikeBukowskiredditor for 2 weeks [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

That is not correct. For every financial gain from currencys you have to pay taxes (einkommenssteuer) be it a crypto currency, schweizer Franken or monopoly money. You buy it, you sell it for more you get taxed ( this is highly propable for bitcoin) Thats at least how it was some years ago

[–]3_Thumbs_Up [スコア非表示]  (19子コメント)

Can you please take that in English so us others can understand what happened.

Banks see a big transaction and report it to the tax office. So what? That shouldn't cause a problem until next year when you need to declare your profits no? Are you supposed to call the tax office and tell them you just made a big transaction? That's ridiculous. What kind of crime are you even suspected of before the point where you don't declare your profits?

[–]nofoxweregiven [スコア非表示]  (18子コメント)

I will be speaking in german because its easier to explain for me. Use google translate if you need to know what I am talking about.

In the EU every transaction over 10,000€ must be reported to your local tax office, be it if you are travelling with it at a airport - sending or receiving it or buying a car for that amount. Basic anti money laundering measure. I dont think its very effective but lets leave that out of here. Also banks have a autoreport for transactions that big, so the german IRS gets this info and decides what to do with it. Because this person maybe had something to do with not paying their taxes before or who knows what, they decided to contact police and then police decided to "raid" the place. (They knock with a few guys and you can get some witnesses and your lawyer and then they go in, if youre suspected to hide stuff while theyre outside you wont have time for this though) I dont know how they convinced a judge to grant the permission for this...

[–]3_Thumbs_Up [スコア非表示]  (10子コメント)

In the EU every transaction over 10,000€ must be reported to your local tax office, be it if you are travelling with it at a airport

Who needs to do the reporting and how are you supposed to do it? I understand that banks report it for anti money laundering purposes and so that tax authorities can take a closer look. But I can't see what obligation a regular citizen has except to declare his income on his taxes. What are you supposed to do, call the tax office and say, "hey I just made a transaction in excess of 10.000 EUR, it wasn't illegal or anything, I'm just obligated to tell you, so just so you know". That doesn't make much sense.

[–]bicyledayredditor for 3 months [スコア非表示]  (9子コメント)

His information isn't really correct. You don't report to the tax office, but to the BaFin (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Financial_Supervisory_Authority)

And not every transaction has to be reported, in many cases there is no need. I have no idea about bitcoin, though.

It's for anti money laundry purposes, not tax.

[–]3_Thumbs_Up [スコア非表示]  (8子コメント)

So it's not an EU rule then (that's a relief for me as I've made multiple transactions of over 10000 EUR this year).

I still don't understand why you need to report anything when the bank obviously can and will do it for you. And how do they want you to report it in the first place? By letter? Phone call? The only thing that makes sense to me is on your tax report, which would be next year.

[–]arienh4 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It is an EU rule. Specifically, this one. It's based on guidelines created by the FATF and ratified in all EU member states in laws governing financial transactions. As for the exact implementation in your state you should consult local lawyers.

[–]bicyledayredditor for 3 months [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

No, it's not a tax thing, like I said. This is separate!

It only concerns commercial transactions, to combat money laundering. Buying Bitcoin just for yourself should not fall under this, imo - but I'm not expert! Get in touch with the Bundesbank or BaFin to inquire.

Btw, you don't pay any tax on Bitcoin gains in Germany if you held them for more than 1 year.

[–]3_Thumbs_Up [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I get it. It's not a tax thing. I just don't see the logic in having to declare something that the bank already obviously knows about. It makes way more sense to just have the bank report it. Especially since the banks already do seem to report it, or the authorities wouldn't know about OP not reporting.

Oh well, just government things I guess.

[–]bicyledayredditor for 3 months [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The bank doesn't know the nature of your transaction. If it's non-commercial you generally don't have to report it, like transferring money to your own account abroad.

Oh well, just government things I guess.

Yeah, it's definitely a bit of that too ;)

[–]I-am-the-noob [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Btw, you don't pay any tax on Bitcoin gains in Germany if you held them for more than 1 year.

Yes you do: Einkommenssteuer

No Abgeltungssteuer, though.

[–]bicyledayredditor for 3 months [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Abgeltungssteuer replaced Einkommenssteuer for capital gains. Isn't this the case for Bitcoin too?

[–]I-am-the-noob [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Maybe you are correct. Not sure right now. I am the noob. Do you have a source for this? Thx

Found this article: https://www.welt.de/finanzen/geldanlage/article117493178/Bitcoin-Geschaefte-sind-nach-einem-Jahr-steuerfrei.html

But it says:

Bei einer Veräußerung nach mehr als zwölf Monaten Haltedauer fällt folglich ein Gewinn von über 7000 Euro an. Die Abgeltungsteuer würde hier mit 1750 Euro zuschlagen. Juristisch handelt es sich dabei um ein privates Veräußerungsgeschäft nach Paragraf 23 Absatz 1 Nummer 2 des Einkommensteuergesetzes.

So Abgeltungssteuer is not needed to be paid, but does the win not count as Einkommen after one year? Is it after one year really 100% without taxes?

[–]Insan2redditor for 3 months [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Whole EU? I'm from belgium so if I send money back from btc to euro in larger amounts than 10000 euro the same thing can happen here? And if you would split the transactions in like 8000 a month would you be safe than?

[–]dlerium [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Structuring is illegal too. Don't do it. If you need to send $20,000, just do it. Plenty of transactions happen. As long as you pay your taxes, you are fine. The government has no problem with that. What they do have a problem is if you try to dodge taxes.

It's a similar thing when we talk about customs. The US has a 1L duty-free limit for liquor that you can bring in. Most customs agents don't care if you bring 2 bottles of Whisk(e)y, or even 6 bottles. But if you try to hide it, that will get you in far more trouble.

[–]Middle0fNowhereredditor for 3 months [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Taxes and moneylaundering are two different things.

[–]taipalag [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm from Belgium too. The only legal EU requirement I know of is that you need to declare if you want to cross a country border with more than 10000€ in your POCKET.

If every bank transfer over 10000€ needed to be declared business would screech to a halt.

Now individual EU countries may have individual obligations for declaring tax gains, but that's another topic.

[–]bicyledayredditor for 3 months [スコア非表示]  (10子コメント)

Banken melden automatisch jede Transaktion über diesem Betrag beim Finanzamt

Das stimmt nicht, man muss es selbst melden. Und der Betrag ist heute bei 12.500€ glaube ich.

Außerdem gilt das nur für Zahlung and fremde Personen, nicht einfach Kontoüberträge auf eigene Konten. Ob Bitcoinkäufe meldepflichtig sind weiss ich nicht.

Edit: Lies übrigens das Post nochmal, glaube nicht das OP Deutsch kann. Was wahrscheinlich auch zu der Situation geführt hat, für die sie jetzt das Land verantwortlich macht.

[–]nofoxweregiven [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

Ja, die Meldung der Bank ersetzt natürlich nicht die eigene Meldepflicht

[–]bicyledayredditor for 3 months [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

Soweit ich weiß meldet die Bank gar nichts, man ist selbst dazu verpflichtet. 2 Meldungen würden doch keinen Sinn machen. Meine Bank weisst mich bei Überweisungen die den Betrag überschreiten immer auf die Meldepflicht hin. Allerdings sind eben nicht alle Transaktionen meldepflichtig.

[–]arienh4 [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

Not going to try responding in German, but banks do have a duty to report high-risk transactions. It'd be rather hard to enforce a law that requires you explain high transactions if you can just make one without anyone finding out. The current anti-laundering directive in the EU is here.

[–]3_Thumbs_Up [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

It'd be rather hard to enforce a law that requires you explain high transactions if you can just make one without anyone finding out

Yes, and this is why this law doesn't make much sense. Since they are obviously using the bank reports to find the people breaking the law, then they could just use the bank reports to find all legal transactions that they want to investigate closer as well.

[–]arienh4 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Yes and no. If someone reports it, that's additional information that feeds into the system so they can decide whether it needs to be followed up on or not. If it's not reported, it's a red flag and is immediately investigated.

There's not enough manpower in the world to process every suspicious transaction by hand, some shortcuts have to be taken.

[–]3_Thumbs_Up [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Yes and no. If someone reports it, that's additional information that feeds into the system so they can decide whether it needs to be followed up on or not. If it's not reported, it's a red flag and is immediately investigated.

That doesn't help as a terrorist could just lie in his report. They still need to investigate the reported transactions or you have a system that's extremely easy to abuse.

[–]arienh4 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Well, the whole thing's based on the concept that it's a lot harder to get away with a lie than tell the truth. It's a whole lot of risk management, game theory and big data analysis.

[–]bicyledayredditor for 3 months [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yeah, of course, that makes sense. I know banks are required to report high-risk transactions. And maybe any transfer to a known Bitcoin exchange gets reported.

As for regular "unsuspicious" transactions of a few thousand Euros here and there, I was under the impression that nothing gets reported, but that may be wrong. Either way one has to report it, or else see OPs post, lol

[–]pumpkin105 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Und damit ist dann alles ok? Wenn ich von einer Plattform à la Bitstamp über 12.500€ auf mein Konto auszahlen lasse, schreibe ich dann vorher einfach eine Email?

[–]bicyledayredditor for 3 months [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Ich bin kein Experte. Die Meldepflicht gilt für Auslandsüberweisungen. Ob Bitcoin darunter fällt weiß ich nicht, so viele Coins habe ich nicht. Frag doch selbst mal bei der BaFin nach, die haben doch Email und Telefon!

Eine Mail schreibst du denen nicht, dafür gibts natürlich ein Formular. Kann man aber glaube ich online machen. Aber erstmal rausfinden, was überhaupt meldepflichtig ist.

Und ja, mit der Meldung ist dann erstmal alles getan. Falls die Transaktion denen verdächtig vorkommt, fordern sie eben Belege und weitere Unterlagen an.

[–]_FreeThinker [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

English translation for people without internet:

You must register each transaction over 10,000 € with the tax office. Be it cash or bank transfer banks automatically report any transaction above this amount to the tax office. These have probably seen bitcoin and directly the blue alarm. The whole is in the whole EU so to counteract money laundering. The PC can by the way be retained very very long if they want.

[–]jeffjefferson3000 [スコア非表示]  (20子コメント)

Hey, could you please tell us where you bought / sold the coins? How police even know about it? Also live in Germany so I'm curious My understanding is u are allowed to transfer amounts smaller than 15k euros, no?

[–]realsony[S] [スコア非表示]  (19子コメント)

sure, bitcoin.de How they exactly know...i guess because bitcoin.de is owned by a registered bank in germany.

[–]jeffjefferson3000 [スコア非表示]  (18子コメント)

Shit, that Sucks. But I'm sure you get it back. Nothing illegal with using bitcoin.de. You don't even know the person you traded with. Have you bought coins from someone abroad? Or sold them

[–]realsony[S] [スコア非表示]  (16子コメント)

Only inside EU...but i dont know all the details i only know what i accused about

[–]StarfighterF104gv2 [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Your post history shows activity in subreddits related to darknet and drugs. Not that I want to accuse you of something but would it be possible that you got the attention of the police in this way? Or did you happen to facilitate trades for your boyfriend on bitcoin.de?

[–]jeffjefferson3000 [スコア非表示]  (10子コメント)

I think the bank told them that you make suspicious big amount transactions abroad. I mean like bringing money in another country. Don't even think bitcoin.de told them about it. Pls keep us updated! Stay strong!

[–]jeffjefferson3000 [スコア非表示]  (8子コメント)

Ab Beträgen von 12.500€ besteht jedoch weiterhin die Meldepflicht der Transaktion gegenüber der Deutschen Bundesbank laut Außenwirtschaftsgesetz.

So obviously anything over 12,5k will be reported to the officials. Not sure if it's money laundering though

[–]waxwing [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

And anything less is reported as "structuring" ...

[–]DarthRusty [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

In the US it's $10k but it's the same. Any deposits over that amount must be reported. Lots of deposits under that amount and you're busted for structuring. Have read about far too many small businesses who were robbed by the gov't for nothing more than depositing money.

[–]waxwing [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

It's basically thoughtcrime, and it's disgraceful. One of the main reasons Bitcoin even interests me. I don't have some fundamental objection to the concept of "the State" (you can argue all day about that) but its overreach in this area is a huge deal, especially when you consider the hideous levels of corruption we see in e.g. the 2008 incident.

[–]DarthRusty [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yep. Both the investment aspect and decentralization aspect of crypto are what bring me to it. I don't use it to hide income and have thus far recorded gains to report come tax time, but I like that crypto provides a safe space from gov't's grubby fingers. Something they can never touch.

[–]arienh4 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

So how would you propose fixing the rather big issue of money laundering, then?

[–]goonsack [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It's how they took down pedo politician Dennis Hastert too, structuring.

[–]Lite_Coin_Guy [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Aber dafür gibt es keine Hausdurchsuchung, zumindest nicht für solche Kleckerbeträge. Da wäre das FA und die Polizei ja nur damit beschäftigt.

[–]Gunni2000 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Das ist ja das seltsame. Die machen eine Hausdurchsuchung für ein paar Banküberweisungen ins Ausland?!

[–]Lite_Coin_Guy [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

if OP or her BF does this kind of stuff, you must do it a bit more clever than that sorry :-/

[–]kryptomancer [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

This is why we can't let Bitcoin become centralized into data centres, we need nodes run over VPNs and TOR.

Increasing the blocksize makes this exponential worse.

[–]Digi-Digi [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Do you have backups of your coins? like on paper? or in your email??

Much simpler moral of the story would just be to always back your coins up. Its basic shit honey.

I call bull-shit though actually. You seem more concerned with immigrants than recovering your money.

[–]TotesMessenger [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:

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[–]ABC_AlwaysBeCoding [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

"The Net interprets censorship* as damage and routes around it." - John Gilmore

* You can replace "censorship" with "over-regulation" or "DRM" or "guilty until proven innocent" in this case.

Since Bitcoin is Net-native, it is performing the same function, essentially.

I'm sick and tired of "good actors" having to endure this sort of shit. I had my own main bank account locked up for an entire month due to completely-legal Bitcoin dealings. Not everyone who plays with this stuff is a fucking drug dealer (not that there's anything wrong with that if you're Libertarian), douchebags

[–]RWBreddit [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Lots of people on here commenting that this story may be BS. Maybe, maybe not. I can tell you that I recently purchased BTC through CoinBase with a Bank of America business account (multiple transactions totaling just under $1k USD) and just last week I received documents from Bank of America basically interrogating me on the type of business that I'm running. Lots of questioning about crypto-currency and money laundering. It seems the banks are being pressured by governments to collect and report information on anyone making crypto-currency transactions. I've have this particular bank account for 12 years and now as soon as I make a BTC transaction my account is being investigated..?? That's just too coincidental. Something is going on in the big picture here.

[–]harpyeaglelove [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Anyone with half a brain will realize that bitcoin is going to become HIGHLY suspect in the future. ANY transactions in bitcoin will be a major problem for normal people. Just watch.

[–]Askalan [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

So...does having bitcoins has something to do with being an alt-right? Some of the comments here are racist as fuck. And Germany being a "nazi police state"? Seriously?

[–]Digi-Digi [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The Stephan Molyneux cult announced for its members to post and upvote this thread. Thats why its so weird, off topic, and unusual.

[–]TheMormonAthiest [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Given Germany purposely hides the identity of refugee criminals to keep people from knowing how many rapes and violence they commit and routinely raid homes of people who simply tweet that the refugees are not good for their country and want them to leave, I'd say Leftwing Nazism or Fascism is a pretty accurate statement when referring to Germany or Sweden.

[–]antonioarduini [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Governments are criminal gangs, and cryptocurrencies will disrupt them completely. The part of your wealth that is already in cryptocurrencies should never be converted to fiat currencies anymore. By doing it they can not do anything. Cryptos will continue to grow till the point they will dominate, during this period you can do 3 things: P2P trading between different cryptocurrencies(some of them will dominate). Holding. And buying goods and services directly in crypto, without any conversion to fiat, by P2P transactions using something like bitcoin OTC WOT.

[–]nikize [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Yes you are not allowed to transfer big sums of money without having a money transmitting license. Just keep under the limit, and if you want to transfer more contact a bank or at least take legal advice, this is something that everyone in EU should know about. (what I mean here is that there have been lots of changes in banks and "crackdown" on cash usage)

[–]fwaggle [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Just keep under the limit

FYI, careful with this line of advice. At least in the US (unsure about elsewhere), you are allowed to transfer large sums of money, you just have to file additional paperwork... and moreover structuring your transfers to stay under this limit and avoid said paperwork is in itself a crime.

[–]Deftin [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Government hates competition, especially when it offers a better product.

[–]john_x_cassidy [スコア非表示]  (72子コメント)

I was interested in reading your story until you brought up the issue of refugees. They have nothing to do with your problem and you just lost all sympathy from me because you instantly came across as a racist @sshole.

[–]Coinosphere [スコア非表示]  (12子コメント)

It's bigotry to call someone a racist for being against a behavior and not a specific race, bigot.

[–]john_x_cassidy [スコア非表示]  (11子コメント)

I think it's pretty racist to say "millions of new intrusive citizen (refugees)" That implies all of them are bad people. That is not the case and to suggest it is, is definitely racist.

[–]Coinosphere [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You're assuming refugees are all of the same race. That's like saying America is made up of only Muslims because today's refugees are mostly from areas of the world that had Muslims in them.

[–]HandcuffsOnYourMind [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

how should she rephrase it then to not sound racist in your opinion?

[–]asdasdadfsdfsdfs [スコア非表示]  (8子コメント)

How is it racist when she's not discussing a race? Also how are you such an expert on the issue?

[–]john_x_cassidy [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

You're right. I suppose the Jews were not a race either. If you're happy talking in semantics I'll leave you to it.

[–]db100p [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

People should just shut up and pay for this party right? /s

[–]realsony[S] [スコア非表示]  (10子コメント)

my 17 year old sister got sexual abused by a refugee and the last 3 years I had unfortunately very unpleasant expiriences with some of them. I said that I lost safety. And sorry if its a racist for you when I say I want to be save, then ok, i'm a racist.

If you can read german https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article163918666/Zahl-der-tatverdaechtigen-Zuwanderer-steigt-um-52-7-Prozent.html http://www.faz.net/aktuell/gesellschaft/kriminalitaet/mehr-sexualdelikte-durch-fluechtlinge-14993901.html

[–]NotMyMcChicken [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

You are not a racist for being concerned about the policies of your country. Please do not listen to these liberal cucks.

[–]santa_cruz_shredderredditor for 5 weeks [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Jesus go back to your deluded corner at t_d.

[–]john_x_cassidy [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

I'm not saying there is not a problem with refugees in Germany but what that has to do with the police hassling you about your bitcoins escapes me. Debate the refugee problem in another forum.

[–]Andhurati [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

The police are afraid of confronting refugees committing hurtful crimes in Germany, but are more than willing to steal from and intimidate a native German for buying some bitcoins.

[–]NotMyMcChicken [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

She is creating context for the situation in her country and how she feels about current policy. She illustrated a snowball effect of misfortune to position the reader into her situation and circumstance. There is nothing wrong with her explaining her story thoroughly.

[–]NotMyMcChicken [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

Right, because being opposed to opening the flood gates to refugees automatically makes you a racist.

[–]HandcuffsOnYourMind [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

refugees

*illegal immigrants

have you heard of relocation plans back to their home country when the war is over? no.

[–]askmike [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

It does if you bring it up randomly in the middle of a story about something completely unrelated.

[–]2cool2fish [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

She is saying she has lost all of her freedoms even to self defense. If you don't understand that those share the same root, you haven't fallen into the rabbit hole yet.

[–]askmike [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

self defense from prosecutors coming at you because you broke AML laws? This isn't MERICA where you can shoot people off your lawn.

[–]reddit_sucks3 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Not random in any way. Completely relevant because it clearly shows where the police resources are being allocated. This isn't politics where you will get to swim in an echo chamber of people who agree with you.

[–]askmike [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

There are laws, you break them and then you complain about police coming to your door? I thought the issues she was describing had to do with AML laws. Please explain to me what that has to do with immigrants.

[–]readyou [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Immigrants, especially Muslims seem to have a free pass in our country Germany... so yeah... you will read this more often that German citizens are upset and bring up these comparissons. Sorry.

[–]Elwar [スコア非表示]  (32子コメント)

Having lived in Germany their issue is not race but the huge amount of problems that the refugees are bringing with them (terrorism, so much raping, attacks on school girls for not covering up, etc). One of the big complaints is the amount of government aid being given to the refugees. More than is given to German citizens. I'm pro-open borders but the quick influx has caused a lot of problems.

[–]TheMormonAthiest [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The Native Americans were pro open borders too. Think about that for a second and how that worked out for them in the long run.

Also you should know that the refugees have 6-10+ children routinely and 40% of German children 5 and under are Muslim children. Unless German citizens wake the F up and get rid of Merkel and shut down the unlimited open borders, Germany will be a Muslim nation within 1 generation.

[–]TheMormonAthiest [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It's not racist nor wrong to fear being raped by Muslim immigrants when the simple facts are they rape non Muslim women routinely when they find them alone.

[–]Ungolive [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Soooo WHAT THE FUCK???? In what place/world do I actually live? Not only that i cannot feel very safe in germany due to millions of new instrusive citizen(refugees) whoa lot just never learned minimum behaviour rules to women and I am not allowed to have a teaser or a knife or whatever.

this is bullshit!

[–]SiriusCH [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I don' think this kind of stuff should come up in a thread about bitcoin: Not only that i cannot feel very safe in germany due to millions of new instrusive citizen(refugees) whoa lot just never learned minimum behaviour rules to women and I am not allowed to have a teaser or a knife or whatever."

[–]Digi-Digi [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

That stood out at me too.

I think it might be a troll post.

[–]Renben9 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

> Hey European countries! Join the EU, you'll have friction-less international money transfers, it's going to be awesome!

> creates friction

lmao, fuck the EU.

[–]EvanGRogers[🍰] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Leave the EU, abandon Germany, and come the US. It accepts Bitcoin...

... for now at least.

[–]optimists [スコア非表示]  (12子コメント)

Downvoted for the absolutely unnecessary and off-topic refugee bashing.

[–]hellypuppy888 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Insane fuuuuuuuuuuuck Germany and their rapey authoritarian police and migrants. Ugh

I'm so sorry this happened to you

[–]Epimenide [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

So the problem was about the amount of bitcoins you bought? (So you can't spend more than 12500 Euros to buy BTC?) O_O Can you let us know if you were trading on a specific exchange or what?

[–]gaugeprower [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I know they have your computers, but do you have a backup of your private key? (aka a paper wallet in a safe or a hardware wallet, etc?)

Couldn't you just boot up a linux machine on a public internet connection, dump your wallet into a tumbler and out to a new wallet? At this point at least you'll still have your funds, and they'll just have your computers.

[–]freedombit[🍰] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Join the club. When something as peaceful as sending money (which is nothing more than communication) is hampered by law, then you know that there is at the very least, the accidental enslavement of you and your time.

[–]Makinjo [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

That change from 12.5 to 12500 Euros jebaited me so hard :S

[–]endchat [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

open ban accounts offshore and use those to deposit/make purchases/trade ect

EU and all its member countries are a bunch of police states...

isn't democracy wonderful?

[–]CNCPinball [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Sorry to hear about your situation. Good luck. Be thankful you have a vote and can hopefully use it for change in your government and its sovereignty.

[–]CAPEREADER [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Sounds like another day in the E.U. Isn't this what German people want? To be told by globalists what to do? That your money is really their money? Why do you think Great Britain, Greece, France, Italy are all trying to get out of the E.U. as fast as possible? This is the future they have waiting for you!

[–]lambecolin [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

This is good reason to learn how to live a double life. One with banks, and one without. Tone Vays has lots of tips----the main one being never to trust a government, bank or BTC exchange, they can freeze your funds at any time. Learn the peer to peer way! Good luck!

[–]Petlor [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Crazy. Would it be legal in Germany to mine on service such as Nicehash to get bitcoins? I mean, if you report your earning nothing should happen, right?

[–]DrLanktonredditor for 3 months [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

OP's your typical heroin head that slipped and got ass fucked.

[–]mjasmjasredditor for 2 months [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

For people who don't know:

Germany is pretty much a police state now, you will be thrown in jail if you decide to speak out on subjects that you are not allowed to speak of.

Like:

http://www.dw.com/en/nazi-grandma-holocaust-denier-ursula-haverbeck-sentenced-to-jail/a-19522941

[–]Cryptocoin54 [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Just FYI, kraken has their german account at the same bank as bitcoin.de. I have my account there too for convenience (I live in germany). When selling bitcoins, I do not get the notification about informing the federal bank if I transact more than 12.5 k €. Last year I bought and sold my coins at anycoindirect in the netherlands and got this info every time I sold BTC for EUR.

[–]realsony[S] [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Uh, thats interesting. I also trade at kraken! My volume there is much bigger. Maybe I did bitcoin.de wrong and its kraken.

I have a trading volume > 500.000 but i only trade with less than 40.000 ... like 20 times sell and buy with 40k makes 500k. Moreover I trade since the middle of 2016...i still have more than 3 years to make by tax declaration so it cannot be a penalty due to taxes? And why should they come with the police. I am not an Uli Hoeneß, I am far far away from being rich or so. I have no clue about all that what happened today. Anyway, let's see what the lawyer says.

[–]Cryptocoin54 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Your trading volume is not important. You can do as much as you want. The only thing that interests the federal bank is what you get paid out (maybe also what you buy, but im not sure). Well, Im only a very small participant in the market, althought this might change soon...

[–]HawkEy3 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You mean the fidor bank? you don't get that warning because you only have to contact the federal bank if you transfer funds to an foreign account, like one in the netherlands.

[–]HawkEy3 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

No it's not a police state and it's not recent, this has been illegal since 1985.

If you don't like that law, try to get it changed.

[–]nibbl0r [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Well, most countries have limits to free speech - usually your freedom ends where other peoples freedom is violated by your speech.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial

[–]mjasmjasredditor for 2 months [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Well, most countries have limits to free speech

Most countries are sane enough to limit what is not allowed by free speech to direct encouragement of violence. You are obviously not allowed to say "go and kill that guy, I will pay the one who does it some sum of money"

peoples freedom is violated by your speech.

How does that work, how can I impede on ones freedom with speech?

That's scary Orwellian.

[–]Cannon-C [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Germany is a nazi police state. But many nations are also and others not far behind.

My advise: Encrypt all the things, back up everything and have offsite backups in locations that are not associated with you.

Encrypt your bitcoin and keep backups, do everything anonymously.

If your computer gets stolen you can use backup to access your bitcoin to move to a new wallet.

Do not disclose any of your activities or bitcoin balance to anyone outside of family. DONT talk to the police. And most of all, stand your ground in an honorable way. No matter how much you are persecuted, stand your ground.