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I will NOT sit down...not in the girls' room (self.GenderCritical)

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[–]thrwpllwI saw Goody Throwpillow TERFing with the devil! 50 ポイント51 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Trope: Women are emotional.

Evidence to support trope: Man having toddler tantrum when told he's wrong.

Yep, checks out...

[–]saladdressed 31 ポイント32 ポイント  (4子コメント)

To a man like that the facebook thread was a theoretical. He wanted to change the course of the argument and erase the extremely gendered nature of street harassment because in theory we are all equal so it's not fair when women talk about harassment we experience as women because we are women. It's a narscissistic hobby of his, to center himself in the trauma of women and girls. But for you it's not a theory or a game; it's your actual life. It's not a story you can opt into in the name of inclusivity or "equality." It's real life. It's something that literally kills women and girls. So yes, you get emotional about it. Everyone gets emotional when their lives are threatened. That's why humans have emotions-- for survival.

[–]butyoucantedithysterical 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

excellent remarks.

[–]Djazouli -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

As a man, this comment helps me so much to understand the problem. I was like "He is sharing his experience, I can not see the problem". And thanks to you, I now understand the problem, thanks a lot.

[–]yishengqingwa666FUCK YOUR PRONOUNS. 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

as a man as a man as a man

[–]Djazouli 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I just wanted to pinpoint that a problem I do not experience as much as women do, is for me, hard to understand. Have I been misunderstood, or is there a problem again ?

[–]butyoucantedithysterical 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Wow. I'm ~hysterical~ too because this is enraging enough to make you mad. Sounds like you handled this situation really well, to be honest. And it is completely understandable that the whole exchange would be very frustrating, but then this guy in particular appears to have lowered the bar so much he then had to crawl under it. He was an asshole to you and as usual his resorting to mean-spirited personal attacks indicates that he did not have an actual argument to make. I hope you can find some solace in that.

[–][deleted] 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Thank you! He also accused me and my friend of making ourselves victims. Um... how exactly does he do that?

My friend was honestly shocked that he was behaving like that, because he's gay, and they both support LGBT issues. After what I've learned here, I wasn't shocked at all.

[–]edie_carmhow do u know im not just a perfectly passing transwoman??? 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I hate when males say women/feminists are playing the victim. No, males are making us victims of crimes.

[–]butyoucantedithysterical 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sounds like he wants to pay lipservice to feminism/other fine 'causes' and decency but without actually committing to believing in systemic sexism or respecting women. How refreshing.

It's funny when somebody accuses somebody else of making themselves a victim. Like, that's actually really hard to do without somebody there to victimise you. That is simply another ad hom attack because he couldn't come up with an actual argument. It seems that he was in the minority and your position had some support in this discussion, so I guess well done for exposing somebody for what they really are.

[–]womenhaveovaries 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (2子コメント)

men like that are just nasty. He sounds completely oblivious.

It reminds me of this tactic my brother uses, basically saying if you get impassioned, you lose the argument.

Well sure, except the "argument" that men expect you to "calmly debate", involve whether or not it is safe to consider you human. As second class inferior goods constantly subject to what the Default Human Decides, we're not even allowed to get angry when men devalue us -- no matter how systematically this devaluation occurs. But notice how men usually forget to remain calm when I start seriously speculating for realz if they are subhuman cockroaches... I'll have to start telling them that their emotional response means "they've lost the debate"!

And of course, trans hear us say things like that, and immediately assume that the deconstruction applies to transgenderism -- ie that they are allowed to get emotional when people stereotype them. Oh wait oops. The deconstruction doesn't work for trans because the baseline isn't the same: our wanting other people to STOP treating us like a stereotype, is the exact opposite of nutcases who NEED other people to treat them like a stereotype.

[–]OhlinsTransgender = Eugenics Cult 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (1子コメント)

It reminds me of this tactic my brother uses, basically saying if you get impassioned, you lose the argument.

So infuriating. I've had this stupidity used against me before. "Are you mad? You need to calm down! You're being too emotional" and yes, I am getting angry at you telling me what women should/shouldn't do.

[–]nuffsaid_nopomo 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've had a guy tell me that after 30 minutes of me sitting calmly and saying one word to his screaming 10. It was at work and my co workers were like "WTF? He was the one flipping out!" I'd take it with a grain of salt.

[–]solo43resting terf face 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I'm sorry this happened to you.

Personally, I stopped participating on Facebook around February of this year, and I haven't missed it one single bit. It's been a huge weight off me, actually, to stay away. For a lot of what you mentioned above - not only having to deal with the hardcore right wingers but also having the handmaidens and lib fems starting to become equally difficult to deal with, day in and day out. It was ugly enough all through the election cycle but just seemed to get worse after that.

My breaking point was when I merely made a post stating that I chose not to engage in political discussions on FB, because it's not a platform I felt was really conducive for it with all the memes and clickbait cluttering up actual thoughtful conversation. And in response, someone I considered a friend for 20-odd years (but who had fallen heavily into lib fem activism of late) shot back at me "Well, it's nice for YOU to have the white cis privilege to ignore politics!"

(Note she is a white, "cis" woman herself.)

I wasn't saying that I ignore politics, or that I don't speak up about issues that matter to me. But only that I didn't think Facebook was a good forum for it. I didn't even dignify that with a response, I just unfriended and haven't spoken to her since.

[–]vauquelinevulvalini 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

"Well, it's nice for YOU to have the white cis privilege to ignore politics!"

(Note she is a white, "cis" woman herself.)

I can't think of a kind of person who can make me cringe harder than a comfortable white lady who tries to absolve herself of her guilt by getting into fights with people online on behalf of groups she neither is a part of nor understands.

[–]dotinalinemore demi 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've been doing similar things for similar reasons.

I find that there are a LOT of people who take the internet to be the definitive version of reality. If you aren't constantly performing your politics online (in the most theatrical, gleefully confrontational way possible), you aren't doing anything at all and are therefore a certified Bad Person who needs to be called out/shunned. Nothing is real unless it's VERY PUBLIC. There is no sense of battle-picking.

I feel like libfem women are the worst of this. I suspect, based on my time as a liberal feminist, that it comes from a socialized desire to be and do good at all times... to never be part of the problem. To carefully follow any and all prescribed behavior for being moral and caring. Since white "cis" women carry guilt for being part of the problem by virtue of their privilege they are especially overcompensatory.

I relate to and feel sympathy for this (impossible) drive. But in practice it just gets in the way of actually talking to people, and becomes a compulsive habit. I experienced it almost as a form of self-harm.

You picked the right move. In a couple years she'll feel embarrassed.

[–]Novemberinthechair 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

These people..

Using Facebook doesn't make one a professional pundit, expert or journalist. A fucking poodle can have a Facebook account as long as there's someone around with thumbs to press the keys for them. You don't have to have credentials for Facebook.

[–]endofthelinerXX-Marks-My-Sex=Female 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You deserve a million bucks for getting off Fakebook! Better to retain your sanity, eh?

[–]bounceaccount 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ugh. This guy was trying to get a rise out of people and derail that thread.

  • Yes, men get mugged, it's traumatic.
  • Yes, men get sexually harassed, especially in the gay scene (nonconsensual touching and shit, often at bars/parties), it's traumatic.
  • Yes, men get abused and knocked around (especially in youth), it's traumatic.

But this guy was clearly using his experience as a tool to derail a thread and bait women into an argument, where he clearly had an agenda.

Gross. Sorry you had to deal with the likes of him. Social media seems to bring out the worst in many people, often men.

[–]TegretolGo home liberalfeminism, you're drunk 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I really hate when men discredit us because we get passionate. It's really easy to be calm and ~rational when the issue DOESN'T AFFECT YOU. Yes, I get emotional when debating certain issues, like rape and sex work, because I LIVED that shit and for some dude bro to dismiss me, who will never live that life, it's just really fucking demeaning. Complete slap in the face. I've come to not engage in debates with men, women get it.

[–]lefterfield 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Women are often told that their emotions, but especially anger are inappropriate. We're mentally ill if we get too passionate about anything. One explanation I've heard from someone about this is that it is a sign of mental health to express appropriate emotions. I.E., it is normal to be angry in response to things that would enrage most people.

And your story makes me angry, and it didn't even happen to me. It would be abnormal to be calm about abuse and psychological manipulation. He's an asshole.

[–]JoosSpringsteen 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Facebook is where people go to prove to one another in pursuit of social acceptance how thoroughly they've been manipulated by their favorite flavor media outlet productions.

When you're on facebook and other social media, you're usually dealing with reptiles, albeit warmblooded in this case.

Deleting my facebook profile turned out to be a very good choice for me too. It's a place where people unconcerned with reality go to spend their time.

[–]reddorthedragon 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Two points:

  • If he's attacking you personally instead of your argument, it shows he has no argument himself.
  • And he tries to use you being passionate about this topic to discredit you, which shows that it's something that affects you more than him.

It's easy for him not to get upset about it because he doesn't face sexism. He's only demonstrating how much more this is a problem for women than it is for men. He's kind of discrediting his own argument, showing that he cares more about shutting women up than helping fellow men (which again shows it's something that doesn't affect men the same way and to the same extent than it does women).

Anyway I hope you feel a bit better, he was being completely unfair to you and I think he knew but didn't care. Fuck that guy. I'm proud you stood up to him even if he upset you and if we keep speaking out and educating people this might become rarer in the future.

And who knows, you might not have convinced him, but maybe you convinced other people who read the discussion!

[–]closetedxxcishet 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Men can't be trusted. Seriosuly. Feminism must feature, center, focus on, and be led by WOMEN. I'm sick of this crap about "butbutbut yuu must inclood teh meeeeeeenzzzz! Feminism aims to end ALL oppreshunz!"

No, screw that. With a cactus. On fire.

[–]endofthelinerXX-Marks-My-Sex=Female 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

What an asshole. Don't engage--he will always escalate and wreck you.

[–]GenderCriticalDadI have a Sex. Not a Gender 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

What an utter wanker.

[–]crlodyTHE MENSTRUATOR 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

What a fucking jerk - I'm so sorry you had to deal with that - if I were you I'd screencap it and send it to his mom and cc him on it saying I'm sure she raised you better than this you misogynist piece of shit

[–]yishengqingwa666FUCK YOUR PRONOUNS. 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sounds like my POS ex. This is male modus operandi. I got angry about something that hurts me and other women, got told I am "too angry" and dumped over the phone days later. Men are shit ans a complete waste of women's time.